Guild Wars 2

Tspatula.9086:

The real truth is that I have been doing some research/reading and it seemed to imply that Zerk wasn’t gonna work over fractal lvl 75

You came to the wrong conclusions, zerk sets work fine all the way to 100, the only requirements are AR.

SlayerSixx.5763:

That’d be an OK analogy if you could differentiate which part of the circle is the original part and which is the expanded section.

Well lets use your analogy, once the house has the extra rooms can you go buy it without them? Nope, just like HoT they are part of the game from now on and cannot be bought without.

The game is HoT+Core now, you cannot get Core alone any more. There is only the big circle and those who have yet to buy or upgrade.

Mahou.3924:

Coulter.2315:

Rasgalinj.2763:

I found the fight quite enjoyable. Took me a few attemts to kill it which is fine. What I can’t really say I find enjoyable however is getting a boss that takes quite some time down to 20%, get killed because for some reason the funnels that allows you to glide won’t work, then having to start at 100%. How about some phases with checkpoints for the real long ones?

Did you feel happy when you beat it? Get that little rush of chemicals through your brain rewarding you? Thats what games are for and adding checkpoints just diminishes that reward.

You did it, can say to yourself that you accomplished it just as well as everyone else. no need to cheapen things that are perfectly doable with a bit of effort – it just makes the game worse in the long run.

The fight is fine (after all the launch bugs got removed).

Aha, so you are THAT kind of “pro gamer”. It would make the game worse for you because you definitely define those fancy genre words like effort differently than normal gamers. If it things were “cheapened” you can still be proud or brag for completeting it in the unnerfed version, instead of worrying that the nerfed version would cheapen your personal accomplishment (or like the elite complainers of the forum warriors: QQ that their “hard efforts” were for nothing <lol>)

I explained why I would worried for the game if encounters were made easier (the poster I was discussing with did not come back so I assume it understood my reasoning), I hold zero pride to lose in completing that encounter.

Your desperation to paint me in unfavourable terms only serves to highlight your complete lack of counter position or argument.

SlayerSixx.5763:

I mean, the way I see it like is if you “expand” the boundaries of your home by simply adding a few more rooms. The rooms are additions to the house and not the house itself.

If I expand the radius of a circle I have a larger circle, the original circle can fit inside but the shape you now have is the larger circle.

Its not true that Sabetha can just end due to mechanics (unless you rebalance the damage cannons do and spawn more heavy bombs) while keeping the same limits on the encounter length (as has been discussed to death encounter length is important for balance and should be maintained whether through soft enrages or hard ones, the concept of “the enrage” should not be removed).

Gorseval is a DPS race boss, removing the timer kinda makes it pointless.

And as discussed VG needs the timer anyway.

I’m perfectly happy to have soft enrage bosses, just these current 3 either do not fall into that category (VG and Gorse) or would need serious rebalance (Sabetha), its a concept thats fine to keep in mind for future bosses though.

online.1278:

Cosbuster.4379:

online.1278:

Cosbuster.4379:

It seems like the “pay to win” term is becoming broader and broader. I guess we can start including games like counter-strike, Call of Duty and Rainbow Six in there since in order to win you need to have the game, and in order to have the game, you need to pay so there you go.

that is buy2play, not pay2win

Like Heart of Thorns then. Interesting.

HoT is both buy2play and pay2win since it does include anything other than pvp stuffs.

Since we re focusing on balancing stuffs on pvp forum, we disregard pve content which is b2p, thus is p2w.

Thats some pretty strong mental gymnastics, are you on a national team?

CaptainVanguard.4925:

GW2, was an entirley open game that allowed even the laziest player to enjoy it with ease even with some frustration, it wasnt without challenge

Contradiction.

I think it should be added too, tbh I think not having it at raid launch was a good thing, as it let average players who wouldn’t necessarily go to the LFG Raid tab see there are pugs out there and looking, maybe it inspired a few people to go try raids (which isn’t a bad thing).

But now we’ve seen how popular Raids are (one of the most advertised for things on LFG) and that we have a community going for them who know its ok to use LFG if they want, it should be given its own tab. If Anet notices a drop off in new raiders though I would consider returning it to the main tab (just because more players getting involved is good).

The soulbound proof of heroics seem a little odd.

You guys just need to join a guild… Stop trying to destroy content you find difficult when you refuse to do anything more than LFG.

The multiple levels of raiding dilutes the content and causes lots of balancing issues (we’ve seen it in WoW which had A LOT more resources).

I have no issue with a new tab in LFG though.

Astralporing.1957:

Coulter.2315:

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response.

You do remember, that f2p players cannot post on this forum, right?

Has it come to the point where you’re arguing for people who haven’t even bought the game yet? (This has no hostility to people trying the game for free and I welcome you to GW2)

I think the problem here is people who demand absolutely everything. You do not need leyline gliding, you can play the game and never even use it, its not even usable in 99.9% of the world and not even needed in the places it does exist.

People who want 100% completion should expect some grind, casuals (actual casuals not the forum users who pretend they are) can play the game with very little grind and any grind they participate in is entirely self imposed.

Thats the problem with the forums, people here demand 100% completion but try to pretend they are arguing to help casuals – we see through you.

runeblade.7514:

Warlord.9074:

this is the summery of the entire thread.

I want something for free that other people paid for. Because my free version isn’t as good as the paid version, I am going to make a thread and argue that I deserve to have something for free that others paid for because I am a a member of the entitlement generation.

I will use ANETs old TOS as my talking points that is no longer valid for free users while ignoring the fact that they have every right to change that TOS anytime they want.

I agreed to the current TOS so I don’t really have any case to make my point thanks.

I have the expac and I want sPvP players to have elite specs. I bet most people arguing for it do have the expac as well.

I’ve noticed everyone arguing here that its unfair on those not using HoT actually have HoT, is this just a case of complaints for complaints sake? If no one complaining here is actually a Core game owner (no HoT) then maybe there isn’t a big problem (to the point that no one experiencing the difference has complained, or HoT has been bought by most people and actually is very popular – either one kinda deflates the arguments).

Don’t complain on behalf of other people, they can do it themselves, I even asked earlier “if anyone here doesn’t have HoT could they make themselves known” and got zero response. There doesn’t seem to be any complaint from those people who actually don’t have HoT (I think this is because the only people complaining are those who have disliked the exp and are actually looking for any thread which makes the exp look bad – check the names and other threads bashing HoT).

Daddicus.6128:

maddoctor.2738:

Also, how is the whole “glass cannon” comes into the solution. The OP was about glass cannons being “exploits”, so if a glass cannon dies they can’t respawn, but if a non-glass cannon dies (which is more likely in a lot of cases) they can respawn?

Actually, I would prefer it if nobody could WP out of combat.

So if you die on The Shatterer you now cannot play for the next 15mins? Good plan.

Rasgalinj.2763:

I found the fight quite enjoyable. Took me a few attemts to kill it which is fine. What I can’t really say I find enjoyable however is getting a boss that takes quite some time down to 20%, get killed because for some reason the funnels that allows you to glide won’t work, then having to start at 100%. How about some phases with checkpoints for the real long ones?

Did you feel happy when you beat it? Get that little rush of chemicals through your brain rewarding you? Thats what games are for and adding checkpoints just diminishes that reward.

You did it, can say to yourself that you accomplished it just as well as everyone else. no need to cheapen things that are perfectly doable with a bit of effort – it just makes the game worse in the long run.

The fight is fine (after all the launch bugs got removed).

Wraith.3504:

Another point of contention is the grinding of materials, Mastery points, Hero points, sepcialization advancement, and other tedium.

You literally cannot grind the bolded things as you can only get them once… Where did you learn to use the word “grind?”

The leagues got a whole new lot of people interested and involved in PvP and introduced real incentives for winning. So you’ll have this population of people jumping in and wanting to win, so they learn builds that win and have continued playing them afterwards.

I think its probably a good thing, this mindset (PvP hasn’t had much to push you to win before), we just need more frequent shaves or balances to make sure there aren’t just a few dominant builds (but we’ve all been saying that for years).

Kuya.6495:

He’s falling on his knees and he’s charging. That means it’s time to dodge and or pop a block.

Try it with a female human and compare it to auto attack, its Asura MirrorBlade sort of thing.

4sec CD is too low for something like this, but its probably not top of the list for nerfs (but it should be on the list).

Daddicus.6128:

Coulter.2315:

Did you just ask us not to argue with your premise? xD

You’ll need to explain how respawning and moving to where you died is an exploit a bit more..

Most people using high damage setups don’t use this “strategy,” for 1 it would require the mob to be near a WP, have a long duration Condition on it or be being attacked by multiple people. Also its just really inefficient.

I see it all the time. In almost every large battle, there’s always a few people saying, “fully dead: waypoint!”, frequently in all capital letters.

They are telling people who die to the boss not to wait for a res because its faster and safer for those that are fighting for the corpses to WP and respawn, they are not calling out parts of a exploiting strategy xD

I am genuinely shocked you couldn’t put this together with your own brain (like really shocked, astounded, flabbergasted, jaw-on-the-floor can’t believe it).

Did you just ask us not to argue with your premise? xD

You’ll need to explain how respawning and moving to where you died is an exploit a bit more..

Most people using high damage setups don’t use this “strategy,” for 1 it would require the mob to be near a WP, have a long duration Condition on it or be being attacked by multiple people. Also its just really inefficient.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Nobody is against expansions giving alternate forms of play. People are expansions giving, in many cases, direct boosts to power. Why are you people still bashing the people who are against the power creep? Are you honestly OK with the ludicrous imbalance even among the elite specializations?

Lol look at you trying to reframe the debate to “Why are you people still bashing the people who are against the power creep?” No one on your side or our side has mentioned the concept of power creep, you are upset about a negative difference between Core and HoT – power creep is irrelevant to this and has occured with or withoout HoT.

Nice try attempting to say “you’re just like kitten” though in other words, lol “bashing the people who are against power creep” such nonsense xD

Power creep is bad => people who are against it are good (You pretended everyone on your side were here) => people bashing those people are bad (This means the people who disagree with you are here, oh no the bad people are here eeep)

^ This was the fraudulent chain of logic you wanted to evoke, just pointing it out so everyone sees through you.

The debate was and still is whether or not HoT is pay to win. You said that it was OK for the elite specs to be stronger because they’re part of the expansion. Its only fair, then, to assume that you’re OK with the subsequent power creep. The power creep, regardless of how you see it, isn’t OK for the game.

Paying to win is power creep in its dirtiest form, since its also hidden behind a paywall, but this OK since they called it an expansion, no? The base game has suddenly become a demo and HoT is now the real game, not an addition.

I’m not pretending people are on my side. You’ll find that a majority of the people still playing PvP are HoT owners, therefore you don’t find much argument there. You (and the people supporting the idea that HoT isn’t P2W) have stated that you’re OK with the power creep. I will state, again, that power creep isn’t good for any game and you’ll find many people who would agree with it, regardless of whether or not the creep was hidden behind a paywall.

Honestly, I don’t understand how anyone could be OK with that. I’m a HoT owner as well, mind you. After playing for a few weeks after HoT dropped, I couldn’t even bother to stomache how warped the game became compared to what it used to be. I’m not against changes of classes, gameplay, or meta, but I am against having the changes devolve the game into a spamfest of passives and conditions. I mean, I don’t even know why I’m posting here anymore tbh. Anet seemed to think that a good fix for thief was buffing #1 and giving them an elixir S passive, as if that makes acro worth it or that an extra 20 HPS would give warrior the kick in the kitten it needed to get moving. Oh well, man. Enjoy the power creep.

Lets just make me a god for a bit so I can manipulate the power levels of everything in game to show you how your argument does not interact with the argument about power creep.

1. There is a power level for everything preHoT.

2. HoT releases, I nerf all Core Specs and have all HoT Elite Specs set at the level in 1.

This causes there to be an overall power loss in the game but would still produce the outcome you are complaining about (but guess what the complaints would be like if the Core people got NERFED at the same time they couldn’t find their wallet – this is why they didn’t do it the way I showed).

It is impossible to have an Elite Spec at the same powerlevel as a Core Spec because it ADDS a weapon, new mechanic, utilities and an elite skill with nothing removed except certain combinations of 3 trait lines (which cannot outweigh what is given unless they make the Elite Traitline really bad, which they tried a bit by removing a minor trait from them).

The system going forward will be an Elite Spec which is now mutually exclusiive with all other Elite Spec will be released with subsequent expansions, Core alone is just a base to build on (very rarely will 3 core specs be worth the massive losses to skill selection and mechanics an elite spec brings).

Telling me to “enjoy my power creep” is hilarious because I have argued against almost all changes that increase mesmer power in an unhealthy way (the class I play) because I do not want power creep. Your ignorance of the structure of the game, how people would react to mass nerfs AND the fact that its an expansion for the whole game (pve included) shows you to be the kind of person that mistakes me for someone who argues for power creep.

And you’ve bought it anyway so you’re white knighting the people who didn’t spend £35 for something they were given 9months notice for (I’m not sure these people exist in the numbers you think they do, just out of interest can anyone who hasn’t bought the expansion and been angry enough to post here akready make themselves known – would be funny if it was just a bunch of people who are really bad at playing in HoT pve areas just looking to QQ more about it, like Astral)

SlayerSixx.5763:

Nobody is against expansions giving alternate forms of play. People are expansions giving, in many cases, direct boosts to power. Why are you people still bashing the people who are against the power creep? Are you honestly OK with the ludicrous imbalance even among the elite specializations?

Lol look at you trying to reframe the debate to “Why are you people still bashing the people who are against the power creep?” No one on your side or our side has mentioned the concept of power creep, you are upset about a negative difference between Core and HoT – power creep is irrelevant to this and has occured with or withoout HoT.

Nice try attempting to say “you’re just like kitten” though in other words, lol “bashing the people who are against power creep” such nonsense xD

Power creep is bad => people who are against it are good (You pretended everyone on your side were here) => people bashing those people are bad (This means the people who disagree with you are here, oh no the bad people are here eeep)

^ This was the fraudulent chain of logic you wanted to evoke, just pointing it out so everyone sees through you.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Coulter.2315:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Coulter.2315:

Manasa Devi.7958:

When you thoughtlessly (or maliciously, I don’t know which) create content that anyone with a shred of common sense could predict will rub a lot of people the wrong way, you certainly don’t care about your players. If some do like it, that’s fortunate, but I file that under “even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn once in a while”.

Can you please post the poll you took which seperates people who agree with you into “a lot of people” and those who don’t agree with you into “some do like it (but rare).”

“(but rare)”

Your words. Don’t ask me to prove your words.

Oh sorry do blind chickens hit with startling accuracy? How disingenuous of you to even try to claim I was putting words in your mouth, paraphrasing yes, that is EXACTLY what you meant.

You read the metaphor the wrong way. Creating expansions is the thing I’m equating to the pecking of kernels. The players aren’t the kernels . It’s not as if they’re coming after every player individually. If only, I’d have told them. What I meant was, they created something dreadful and luckily for them some people like it regardless and any quantification you read into that is just you wanting to read that. It’s absolutely not in my writing.

“If some do like it, that’s fortunate, but I file that under “even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn once in a while”.”

IF some do like it (everything refering to the target of the sentence is now hitting this phrase because of ‘if’), THAT is fortunate (THAT being the act of some liking it), but I file THAT under “even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn once in a while.”

So it does say “some liking it” is “like a blind chicken finding corn,” ie. bound to happen but rare.

If you meant something different thats fine, what you were trying to say was, “anet randomly constructed the expansion, hit some good things by accident.” Well that seems odd because there isn’t an objective standard of “good” in a game like there is with “corn.” My corn could be your pebble, you have a multidimensional chicken flickering from all our view points pecking at objects that are both pebbles and corn depending on which point of view it takes, seems a bit much – don’t you think?

Nethod.7068:

I hate your new meta-play requirements guild wars 2.

Too many better things to do than be discriminated over class and gear. Can’t enjoy new content on builds i’m used to playing with -

Why did you design a meta-style raid? Feel like kicking people off groups and saying “Oh sorry we don’t need your class.”?

I hate everything about that design of raid.

The “meta” is players’ response to the game, the raid isn’t designed specifically for the meta group to beat.. The meta is an evolving thing created by people fighting against something (originally it refered to metagaming against other players but has, over time, been extended to include fighting against AI or designed encounters).

Hope that clears up why you weren’t making sense and why, no matter the design of a raid, it will ALWAYS have a meta.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Just double checking. So you guys are OK and expect elites to be far superior to be the core classes because they cost money?

No we expect Elite Specs to be superior because they are part of an expansion which adds skills and traits.

Kucabara.9237:

it’s pathetic…
please, Anet just make base game B2P model again

That would make the game EXACTLY the same as it is now just with fewer people playing… HoT would still cost money and Elite Specs would still be strong as they are now.

What are you expecting to change?

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s sad is that there’s no longer even a pretense that they care about the players. Content that takes 2 hours without even a player’s choice in the matter of when they want to start their 2 hour sessions, that’s insane. There’s no other word for it.

In the age of the rise of on-demand media, this is an abomination I really can’t get my head around. I’d post what I really thought of it, but I’d get infracted.

That’s just ridiculous. They don’t care about their players because they made a meta event that’s long that’s liked by a whole lot of people? That doesn’t make sense.

When you thoughtlessly (or maliciously, I don’t know which) create content that anyone with a shred of common sense could predict will rub a lot of people the wrong way, you certainly don’t care about your players. If some do like it, that’s fortunate, but I file that under “even a blind chicken finds a kernel of corn once in a while”.

Can you please post the poll you took which seperates people who agree with you into “a lot of people” and those who don’t agree with you into “some do like it (but rare).”

Oh wait.. You really have no idea cause you didn’t do anything but assume you were in the majority thoughtlessly (or maliciously, I don’t know).

Seriously what am I supposed to do as a Shatter Mesmer who has just had their defense and offense butchered like this?!!

You didn’t nerf bunkers by doing this, you nerf’d things that used active defense and on the fly counter attacks.

Change it back.

We reform the Bloodstone and nuke all remaining elder dragons in one go, this massive burst of magic tears open portals to the mists and the human Gods return and Queen Jennah stops making public appearances, Countess Anise sits on the throne in her stead – she is actually leader of the White Mantel and restarts the war against the Charr, the Asura side immediately with the humans seeing their Gods have returned.

We then march with unseen allies against the Charr and purge them from Ascalon, Charr players can reroll or play “rock breaking simulator” in a detention camp. Once we have Ascalon back we can allow Charr who reject their barbaric species to re-enter human society (of course leaving an unseen guard with them to make sure they don’t betray us).

The Underworld and Fissure reopen and Anise sits with her pet baby dragon on high in Divinity’s Reach and we think it good.

I’m all for this sort of thing being added to the Legendary journey but it should STILL require a lot of mats, gold etc, the game needs a material/gold sink, a long term goal and Legendaries play an important part of the economy due to their requirements.

runeblade.7514:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

foxcat.4096:

SlayerSixx.5763:

You need to buy something to remain relevant. That is literally the definition of P2W. The elites are clearly better than the core classes and are locked behind a pay wall, therefore it is pay to win. Why are you still trying to argue?

The game is buy to play if you wan’t the full game you gotta buy it ,if you don’t want to fine but you cant cry when you have less options than the person who payed for the full game.

This is an expantion pack. As in an addition to the base game. As in not the base game. You would’ve had a point if it was an intrinsic part of the base game, but it isn’t.

Can you name me an MMO expansion pack that doesn’t expand the skill set or power level of those who get it?

Asking this question, making a comparison doesn’t mean expansions are not pay2win. It means people are more tolerant to pay2win aspects.

I’m just looking for clarification that you do infact want to label every single game with an expansion pack as ‘pay2win.’

I’m curious what you want to call real pay2win games after that sort of categorisation, since you’re making the term meaningless with such a massive catch all, pay2win+?

SlayerSixx.5763:

foxcat.4096:

SlayerSixx.5763:

You need to buy something to remain relevant. That is literally the definition of P2W. The elites are clearly better than the core classes and are locked behind a pay wall, therefore it is pay to win. Why are you still trying to argue?

The game is buy to play if you wan’t the full game you gotta buy it ,if you don’t want to fine but you cant cry when you have less options than the person who payed for the full game.

This is an expantion pack. As in an addition to the base game. As in not the base game. You would’ve had a point if it was an intrinsic part of the base game, but it isn’t.

Can you name me an MMO expansion pack that doesn’t expand the skill set or power level of those who get it?

Kirk.3086:

Yeah, waiting 3 years yet to play turret engineer.
Still waiting…

You missed your window, it was totally stupid at one point, leaving turrets to guard a node while bunkering another or setting up 2 at mid. Was just awful and the bugs involved were gross (making turrets unhittable spawning them in the air – blerg), didn’t reach the highest level of play but just butchered ranked.

They killed it and we’re glad its dead.

I think its good that a real organised World Boss exists (and am surprised they didn’t add another with HoT, well they sort of did with Gerrent but even it was just simple mechanicly just had a DPS requirement that wasn’t met much at the start).

SlayerSixx.5763:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.

I know.

Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_2sGk7Uwe8

Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.

Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.

It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.

Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.

HoT isn’t giving you tear dreams though, its just an expansion pack. It doesn’t make you into a monthly subscriber to keep an advantage or let you spend ludicrous amounts of money to generate massive advantages (Diablo 3 money store would be an example of that).

That video was very informative and confirms alot of what I believed. I will favourite it and come back to it a few times.

Let me tell you a little about BFH. BFH didn’t require for you to pay tons of cash to compete. One really special loadout for me was my soldier’s loadout. BFH has three classes. You had the heavy and slow gunner that generally dominated close quarter engagements. There was also the commando, a squishy, stealthy assassin type that either excelled at super long range with rifles or lick-your-back melee range with their knives. Then you had soldiers who basically worked best at mid range and had very little defense against vehicles. With a very specific loadout, soldier could dominate close quarters like a gunner, dominate super long range and super close range like a commando, AND reliably destroy vehicles. All of this coupled with soldier’s base abilities allowed me to simply carry vs almost entire teams of similarly skilled players with relative ease. I also forgot to mention that a weapon from this loadout also allowed me to scale entire buildings in a single blast of its alternate fire. All of this cost less than 20$ and was permanent. This is me paying for a ridiculous advantage for the price of what? 2-3 full meals depending on where you live. It doesn’t matter how much you pay. The fact that you’re paying for advantage is enough. ANet straight up lied when they called the elites side grades and you want to know something? I’m certain everyone knew that and didn’t care. I’m not complaining about why they added what they added. I’m just here to state that this is, indeed, pay to win.

Oh it was permanent to buy the BFH stuff? The video kinda looked like there was renting involved (never played the game so wasn’t sure).

Yer I enjoyed the video too, still don’t think its appropriate to call an expansion pay2win though (you would need to put a lot of games into that category and you cannot say the phrase “pay2win” doesn’t come with very clear implications and those do not apply to GW2 so it is a deliberate attempt to dirty the expansion – which was my original point).

SlayerSixx.5763:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.

I know.

Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_2sGk7Uwe8

Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.

Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.

It is what it is. Unless you want to assign a fixed price point that decides when games become P2W, then it’ll essentially make every DLC/xpac that provides noticeable bonuses to the paying user vs a user without that P2W.

Also, please don’t bring up BFH. I played that game for 3 years and it hurt my soul what EA did to such a golden game. Hell, I dreamt that another company took the rights to the game and relaunched it back into its glory days, then I woke up and cried.

HoT isn’t giving you tear dreams though, its just an expansion pack. It doesn’t make you into a monthly subscriber to keep an advantage or let you spend ludicrous amounts of money to generate massive advantages (Diablo 3 money store would be an example of that).

runeblade.7514:

Coulter.2315:

SlayerSixx.5763:

If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.

I know.

Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_2sGk7Uwe8

Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.

Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.

You will do a tl;dr. I will not watch that video because it is too long.

He’s actually a very good speaker, its pretty entertaining while enlightening.

Basicly they have a system where you rent weapons, they forced you after the change to pay2win to be incapable of renting for free but only through purchases AND introduced BETTER versions of the rentable weapons through real money purchases.

This generated thousands of forum posts and media complaints, emails to staff including “I hope you’re happy ruining our game,” “I’m leaving this game,” “you’ve ruined children’s Christmas” etc.

The outcome of this was most fascinating though.

The Forum posters accounted for 2% of the player base, spent 10x the average user and the complaining posters and emailers were active users a year later and became spending players.

The total player base stayed steady with no noticable numbers leaving the game, zero effect on registration or leaving rates.

The revenue per month doubled.

GW2 does not rent you HoT and require you to turn into a subscriber to continually generate your advantage, its still buy to play. This is totally different to renting through real money to generate a monthly subscription by pay2win.

Fun extra learned from Korea, “do not allow your players to know when they are beaten by a pay2win item.”

Utterly fascinating though that despite complaints and outrage that people just keep playing regardless. It took the threat of the devs losing their jobs to change to pay2win and they make the argument that in sport people accept pay2win and it seems to translate (in behaviour maybe not discussion forums) to games too.

Very interesting, though you do sit listening and think “omg business is evil xD”

Good talk though (I realise this wasn’t a very small TL;DR)

SlayerSixx.5763:

If this isn’t pay to win, I’m not sure what is.

I know.

Here is a talk from a manager of Battlefield Heroes and a fascinating look at them converting to pay2win. Its genuinely interesting and even has real insight on forums users like us and outrage on the issue (I won’t spoil the ending).

Worth a watch even just to learn a bit more about gamers and forums as well as actual pay2win system.

Also if we use your definition of ‘pay2win’ then EVERY game with an expansion pack falls into that category making the term meaningless.

To make Arcane Thievery useful I think you’d need to make it AoE (240 radius), Mimic is a very strong utility for very niche situations and I think its best to leave it at that.

This sort of mindset is new; something thats spawned from how weak minded our current generation is, how protected and coddled they are, never allowed to feel a negative emotion and given trophies for turning up regardless of effort.

I remember when Cantha was released, not a peep about “P2W,” sure people were shocked at how Soul Reaping with Spirits broke the game but never did I see someone saying “I didn’t buy the new expansion why am I less powerful?!”

I realised there has always been this way in thinking but how did they become the majority? You used to ridicule the nonsense they’d say but they swarm, notice how they are saying “P2W” because everyone finds that awful (but it doesn’t apply here), in the same way that terrible people use the word “racist” or “sexist” to describe things that aren’t in order to paint the issue with words which prevent true discussion (completely devaluing those very important words in the process, which is shameful). Using “P2W” deliberately to paint an expansion as something bad.

This mindset of “I am special and must always be so regardless of what I do or do not do” is distressing and you see it creeping into everything, I watched Question Time tonight and an audience member said the Prime Minister “continues to incite hatred and prejudice” because he used the phrase “bunch of migrants” (refering to Jez’s photo op earlier in the week at Calais). Its infecting everything, paint the issue with words like “hatred” and “prejudice” so no one can be on the other side. Just like painting an expansion with “P2W” – ‘how could you even try to defend P2W’ is exactly the situation they want to create.

Shame..

P2W, just so you know is a system that allows you to spend ever higher amounts of real life cash to gain advantage in game that is proportional to the money spent. This CANNOT apply to GW2 HoT because if you spend £1000 or £35 the benefit stays the same.

Buy the expansion, its £35 (this is where they will bring up how poor people are being disadvantaged, I saved up £1 a week from the announcement of HoT and bought it that way so their argument is nonsense but all that matters is they paint me as someone who hates the poor – ofc now I’ve pre-empted it they will probably go for “paranoid” instead, I figured better that than “poor hater” but time will tell).

tico.9814:

nacario.9417:

One thing is the unbalanced mess, but why are we stuck with conquest? we should get more modes so that our enjoyment isnt purely based on balance, but also from playing new content and not the same stuff all over. And add dueling cages already in heart of the dead

You nailed it that’s the reason why this game isnt esports, what’s fun about conquest nothing not even close to the fun of arathi basin.

Which was a conquest map…

Do the mission solo then.

Mesis.2951:

Punish players for too high dmg (each 2% spawn adds, aplly debuff, …)

Its like the ghost of Karl Marx is here with us xD

Seriously though the Raid does have plenty stuff like the things you wanted in the OP.

Remember we got the worst Norn leftovers, all their valiant and powerful heros died. We’ve ended up with the sick and lame Norn, all huddled together in their city xD A city for Norn… Thats probably why they’re all shorter, bent over in shame of what has befallen their people.

Literally runts of the litter, the only ones which didn’t die fighting Jormag, were left breed. Probably why the Sons of Svarnir have such sway – anything to return glory to their race and be tall and strong once more.

MeGaZlo.9516:

I can’t. Just can’t kill this toad on the beetle. Or two frogs on the bridge. I wonder what should I do. “Special build for veterans”? But why the hell I need it?

Because you keep dying to them…

Looks like you want more control and CC, luckily as a guardian you have access to a lot.

Staff has a wall which knocks and interupts any mobs hitting it (you can summon the wall on top of mobs to rupt them).

GS has AoE pull.

Hammer puts down a circle which again knocks mobs on contact.

Shield gives an AoE knockback.

Guardian also has plentiful access to AoE blinds (from F1 to weapon skills).

Getting the Elite Spec Dragon Hunter will give you access to traps and a long ranged option too.

You have the tools to do what you’re asking for already.

No problem, hope its some help

There are several types of orb.

Orange to the sides of the spawn area, gives you access to skill 2 which is a ground target AoE attack for 30 damage.

Orange near the jump pads in the side tunnels, enhances your skill 1, makes your attack fly faster so is more accurate.

White(ish) in the side tunnels, gives access to skill 5 which creates an area around you for a few seconds which reflects projectiles.

Orange in the middle of the side areas, gives access to skill 4 which is a kick interupt (need to be close to enemy).

Blue(ish) on the rocks between the exits to the tunnels at each side, gives access to skill 3 which is a chill trap.

Black on the raised platform above the central area, gives you stealth which does not break on dealing damage.

Red on the rock in the middle of the central area, makes all your damage skills hit harder (60 damage auto attack).

While we’re on the topic, can you please give The Minstrel some footsteps ^^

Amineo.8951:

Coulter.2315:

Amineo.8951:

Coulter.2315:

Mitch.4781:

I actually saw someone advertising – Selling The Eternal – 800gold. Man I am all for enterprise but i just thought you greedy kitten. Especially for somethign that is ultiamtly so kittening meaningless.

Well you’re splitting it up amongst 9 people, each of those people will need the best gear (lots of them making new Ascended sets for new HoT specs) and its a way to make money that is legit fun (people take 800g from selling on the TP each day from flipping or selling lucky drops so its not too bad imo).

All assuming the buyer is happy at the end and receives good customer service.

Videogames should never be assimilated to real life, that makes it so much more boring and frustrating.

I have no idea what you mean, could you rephrase?

“Customer service” I mean c’mon…

I was meaning a polite tone, no fails and quick delivery of what they asked for – if you’re selling the Raid I don’t think thats a bad thing to aspire to.