Guild Wars 2

Too much Sweeney Todd.

Amineo.8951:

Coulter.2315:

Mitch.4781:

I actually saw someone advertising – Selling The Eternal – 800gold. Man I am all for enterprise but i just thought you greedy kitten. Especially for somethign that is ultiamtly so kittening meaningless.

Well you’re splitting it up amongst 9 people, each of those people will need the best gear (lots of them making new Ascended sets for new HoT specs) and its a way to make money that is legit fun (people take 800g from selling on the TP each day from flipping or selling lucky drops so its not too bad imo).

All assuming the buyer is happy at the end and receives good customer service.

Videogames should never be assimilated to real life, that makes it so much more boring and frustrating.

I have no idea what you mean, could you rephrase?

Ohoni.6057:

I honestly don’t care where they spend their marketing dollars

Liar or just wrong thread?

Ohoni.6057:

Robert Devine.3087:

Does anyone else agree that spending as much resources they do on an aspect of the game the clearly are failing at is a waste? The money could be spent in other places, sad to say because I joined this game for pvp but they are really blowing it. Pro players manipulating matches, tt is hardly watched by anyone, they refuse to do anything about purposeful trolling. I am sorry but this is not Esports not even close.

Agreed, nobody cares about GW2 as an esport, it’s a complete waste of valuable resources.

Guys.. Devs have said it is profitable can you stop pretending it wastes resources when it generates them.

They could fold iit into the trait “Improved Alacrity – Increases Duration and Effect of Alacrirty by 50%”

Bringing it up to 50% increased recharge on Mesmer.

Although this does further nullify the existance of the other 2 major traits (even more than now).

Mitch.4781:

I actually saw someone advertising – Selling The Eternal – 800gold. Man I am all for enterprise but i just thought you greedy kitten. Especially for somethign that is ultiamtly so kittening meaningless.

Well you’re splitting it up amongst 9 people, each of those people will need the best gear (lots of them making new Ascended sets for new HoT specs) and its a way to make money that is legit fun (people take 800g from selling on the TP each day from flipping or selling lucky drops so its not too bad imo).

All assuming the buyer is happy at the end and receives good customer service.

psyt.9415:

vesica tempestas.1563:

did you read the posts in this thread? it was a marketing spend and has already reaped profits, i.e they gained more than it cost.

So what would happen if that marketing went towards promoting WvW or more living story instead. Wouldnt it also have a positive effect on the game and make a larger percentage of players happy.

Explain how you would make WvW an event with winners of a prize pool, the event needs to be viewable live and on twitch. I’ll give an example below but it has a glaring flaw.

First the easy and control option tPvP needs 5 people per team to fight games that last about 7mins. Easy peasy to get them to an event and film it, ggs solid marketing endeavour.

WvW would go like this imo:

WvW has 3 servers full of people randomly entering and exiting 4 maps 24/7 doing random stuff (sometimes even buying 25 badges worth of stuff then leaving) over weeks and months. Obviously useless so we need to condense it into a viewable event, I guess you have a monthly tournament then the top 3 servers are found to play a 6hr WvW marathon LIVE on reset maps. (choosing those who participate might be picking active guilds on the server and then a server wide call to arms to fill the maps)

We would invite 5 commanders from each of the top servers to the event and have them command live with them as our PoVs and maybe throw in some invuln devs taking footage too. This would give best angles for action, commentary and strategy.

Fabulous time trying to offer the best view of WvW, BUT the problem is there are people outside the controlled environment, people who can watch the stream and contact those playing but not at the event (this is where WvW falls down, you cannot invite 3 entire servers to come play live). This means people can whisper or call their friends and say “Blue commander is making a stealth push for X.” I realise WvW has had to deal with this before but if money is on the line could be iffy.

I guess money rewards go to commanders and give gem prizes and maybe a unique outfit for those who participated?

This is the best show I can think of, and it should run parallel to the tPvP tourny.

What do you guys think? I’d watch it but I’m not sure how legit it would be with easy spying, guess you could block people’s chat but you’d then still be unable to stop mobile phones or w/e communication, and if it looks like a team is cheating could be weird.

I’d give it a go if anet wanted to bring life back to WvW. But notice this is using the same model as the esports because its a good working and profitable marketing model. Don’t bash the esports, if anything try to ask for WvW to be included.

Doam.8305:

Even in GW1 they knew to make challenging maps a side item the problem with HoT is that this isn’t the case at all. In GW1 the story path or the main path is casual friendly as it always should be in any game however once you walk of the beaten path you’ll end up in more difficult content however in HoT the main story path and this more difficult content is one in the same.

I would contest this assertion, I would say the GW:EN maps were about as difficult as HoT maps (Tarnished Coast maps and Depths of Tyria). Do you remember the large groups of dinosaurs and krait? My memory isn’t what it was but I do remember groups of mobs that were dangerous.

psyt.9415:

Coulter.2315:

psyt.9415:

My sentiments exactly. You have a portion of the game that people love and enjoy and is paying your bills but instead of keeping them happy you chase after a much smaller segment of your playerbase kittenimn off your core market in the process. Learn from FFXIV figure out what is making you money and stick with it. FFXIV don’t give a crap about no arenas its in the game but they aren’t dumb after 1.0s failure they know now to keep their fans happy which in that game is dungeons. There is a huge hole in the market for wvw players that guild wars could be eating it but instead they let all those players walk away unadressed so they can chase after arenas. Just stick to pve expacs and wvw and call it a day. It’s like taking your wife’s money and spending it on another woman what anet is doing.

I think you’ve mixed up 2 (possibly more) issues;
1) a marketing budget for tPvP tournament
2) WvW new borderland wasn’t popular
If anet didn’t spend money on a PvP tournament (for marketing purposes) do you think 2) gets solved by a wizard?

I don’t think you understood any of what I said apparently.

1) The fact is the wvw update is almost a year out no one likes the new bl and they are quitting the game. Does that mean they should wait that long to address it?

2) Any budget is capital that could be allocated to developing other resources ie making those changes or completing living story sooner.

3) definitely not a wizard

As people have said before its the marketing budget (WvW development’s staff and money doesn’t come from the marketing dpt).

Colin has said “From a marketing standpoint, it (and the ESL weekly cups and WTS tournaments before it) has been extremely successful so far, among the most successful projects our marketing team has ever launched to grow our title in the history of the Guild Wars franchise in return for the cost.”

I still think you’re expecting a wizard.

TheLastNobody.8319:

oi, reading all these thief posts is starting to make me regret ever pitying the profession.

Wait til they are OP again.. Then you’ll really love them.. Classic Thief quotes; “Sword#2 is fine,” “feline grace is fine,” “preloading SD#3 to use with steal is fine,” “Steal is fine, so what if you can’t read it on 3 sheets of A4” …

They will hang on to ANYTHING, feel no pity.

It possibly qualifies them for more government funding too, Charmed (the tv series about the witch sisters) had a bar in it called P3 which had real life pop stars playing a song in it each week – this let them qualify for “Variety Show” funding or tax breaks I can’t remember which.

You can;t say that something a company has done 3 years in a row and increased the prize pool of is “fruitless” you have no idea how it works into the system.

So someone is forming a group, their group, and wants to put some requirements on it for whatever reason they like, its their group, you have decided since you do not measure up to that requirement to fake it and lie to them. If you get shouted at who is at fault? (psst its the liars)

psyt.9415:

My sentiments exactly. You have a portion of the game that people love and enjoy and is paying your bills but instead of keeping them happy you chase after a much smaller segment of your playerbase kittenimn off your core market in the process. Learn from FFXIV figure out what is making you money and stick with it. FFXIV don’t give a crap about no arenas its in the game but they aren’t dumb after 1.0s failure they know now to keep their fans happy which in that game is dungeons. There is a huge hole in the market for wvw players that guild wars could be eating it but instead they let all those players walk away unadressed so they can chase after arenas. Just stick to pve expacs and wvw and call it a day. It’s like taking your wife’s money and spending it on another woman what anet is doing.

I think you’ve mixed up 2 (possibly more) issues;
1) a marketing budget for tPvP tournament
2) WvW new borderland wasn’t popular
If anet didn’t spend money on a PvP tournament (for marketing purposes) do you think 2) gets solved by a wizard?

Torch still wins if you’re playing burst.

The skill is kinda destroyed with the Aegis change. It was an exciting skill (AoE invuln really was something special and unique).

I would have hoped the standardised res/stomp would be enough to kill Bunker Mesmer without this change, maybe just not implement it for a week and see if its needed after.

I would genuinely suggest starting a new character, if you weren’t level capped jumping in on a class thats half way through with a new trait/unlock system thats alien to you (they changed over the time you were gone) will probably be a bit confusing. Starting fresh will give you pointers on how to deal with stuff and let you understand as you go.

No rush to get HoT either as it adds endgame (lvl80 only) content, best play through Core GW2 and see how you like it.

Pyromagnium.4751:

Syde.5961:

There was so much time to get to legendary….This is like complaining that you didn’t finish your homework in high school because you were procrastinating. I got to legendary easily within the given time. Next time don’t wait til the last minute.

It’s more of an example of what happens when a company promises something and then does not fulfill said promise. 25th is not over. Why is the season over. I would have asked this if I were legend.

Ok if I would promise to kill you in the next hour would you only start to feel scared in the 59th minute? Thats what “finishes on the 25th” means, be scared all day!

Blude.6812:

All I can say as a paid for core game owner — 2 thumbs down.

You look like ants from here ^^

Seriously though, it will be fun gliding everywhere now.

Agemnon.4608:

Coulter.2315:

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

The budget for esports needs to be justified and cleared by the company executives, it will be bringing in money.

The pvp championships are an event that brings attention to the game in a way that gives the players something to talk about and shows off the gameplay far better than a few more adverts (thats where the money would be spent if not on esports btw, not some magical new content tree).

Why not just by ads on MTV, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network? That should raise awareness of the game.

TV adverts are very expensive, even WoW only advertises on TV for a very short period of time when it has an expansion coming out.

Bad luck, but there will always be a cutoff that messes up someone. The league does last for 2 months though – best go for it earlier next time.

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

The budget for esports needs to be justified and cleared by the company executives, it will be bringing in money.

The pvp championships are an event that brings attention to the game in a way that gives the players something to talk about and shows off the gameplay far better than a few more adverts (thats where the money would be spent if not on esports btw, not some magical new content tree).

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

…but everyone has been able to do the new zones.
…

I haven’t. Couldn’t get through it, although not due to mission strength. I just couldn’t find my way through the map once I hit DS. I tried many times, but each time was more frustrating than the last, so I finally gave up.

Games shouldn’t be balanced around the inability of their worst players though. You being incapable and easily frustrated by that fact should have zero impact on further development.

style.6173:

Aphix.9846:

Pvt Frosty.6973:

Aphix.9846:

http://i.imgur.com/yPYancp.jpg

Only solo queued necro, got there a little while ago, this is the screenshot after I got legend

Primordial Legend = Legend x2 (not Legend x1)

P.S. even captured a bit of Ziltoid being Ziltoid in my attachment. Good times

Huh ? Clearly not. Primordial Legend is just division 6.

I hope it is legend x2. It would make the achievement mean more.

I think a post was made by a dev, it will be gained on achieving Legendary rank (don’t need x2 or anything).

If you have gone past that point and still not got the title you will get an item which automatically awards you the title in the mail to fix it for you (I’m not sure when that mail will come though).

aktharr.2389:

OH MY GOSH GUYS YOU ARENT LISTENING. Pay-To-Win was just a title thing i came up with because i thought in some aspect it was.

WHAT I really was trying to say was they need to balance the powers of the expansion players and the powers of regular player by either boosting or nerfing some of the classes

The ONLY way to make Elite and Core Specs balanced is to REMOVE a Core choice from the Elite Spec (including a set of Utilities).

Because the ELites have EVERYTHING from Core and MORE ADDED => cannot be balanced with Core.

This is just a fact of life, this does not mean the game is pay2win though (as explained above).

TexZero.7910:

Instead of starting from the ground up and making the entire process something achievable by even the casual crowd, they’ve actually gone and pushed it into a very niche grind centric crowd.

Yes.. Because they wanted something that people couldn’t get quickly… (Do you even know what the discussion is on btw? Legendary Weapons, literally BY DESIGN not for casuals)

In a pay2win game someone who spends £1000 will have a massive advantage over someone who spends £35, this is obviously untrue of HoT.

Buying HoT gives you an advantage, but not an advantage that is proportional to how much you spend on the game. Everyone gets the exact same advantage once they buy the expansion pack. The phrase “pay2win” is linked to games where you can keep spending real money for more and more advantage to the point where you cannot be beaten and so can pay to win.

Zintrothen.1056:

This thread is for players to give they’re idea of the best pip system. Criticisms are acceptable, but must be told in a kind manner and explain why the idea may not work. That is obviously easier said than done on these forums. Don’t feed the trolls. All trolls must die.

My biggest fear with this is that Anet will ignore all ideas and do what they want. But my greatest hope is that they maybe be able to use some ideas.

If you think of more ideas, post them in a separate post, so Anet doesn’t miss it.

To me, the best pip system is:

1- Rewarded for winning streaks
2- Punished for losing streaks
3- Never lose pips for winning
4- Never gain pips for losing
5- If someone DCs, leaves or is AFK and you win, you gain a pip
6- If someone DCs, leaves or is AFK and you lose, you don’t lose a pip
7- If someone on the other team DCs, leaves or is AFK and you lose, you lose a pip
8- If someone on the other team DCs, leaves or is AFK and you win, you don’t gain a pip
9- DCers don’t lose pips, but leavers and AFKers lose three. There should be zero tolerance for these kind of players.

2 will make people sad and quit (don’t do this)

6 can be manipulated (having a friend queue with you and be at a break point if the match goes badly they leave, you cannot then lose a pip)

8 can let people spite you (“kitten you, haha DCing myself no pipz!!”)

9 the game cannot tell the difference between DC and leaver so you’re going to punish a lot of innocents (bad idea)

I liked the idea for win streak bonuses though

MAN.9046:

By buying the elite specs of HoT you have a significant advantage over core class users, which you obtain by paying $50. If paying money to have an advantage over someone who didn’t(whether it’s an f2p nub or a 3 year sceptical veteran) is not pay2win then what is it?

Buying HoT gives you an advantage, but not an advantage that is proportional to how much you spend on the game. Everyone gets the exact same advantage once they buy the expansion pack. The phrase “pay2win” is linked to games where you can keep spending real money for more and more advantage to the point where you cannot be beaten and so can pay to win.

Your version of the definition would class EVERY game with an expansion with new skills or an increase in level a “pay2win” game which is obviously not true.

Eg. In a pay2win game someone who spends £1000 will have a massive advantage over someone who spends £35, this is obviously untrue of HoT.

Dual.8953:

If your going to go on the pro-meter side you’re going to have to answer for yourself, why you wouldn’t mind a setting where you yourself wouldn’t be allowed to party with others because you’re seen as lesser.

I’ve played MMOs for over a decade and never been in this position.

Silverkey.2078:

Apparently, you can just swap profession right before the end of the match… et voilà!

If this gets too well known I predict A LOT of rage from teams all leaving to reroll.

Infusion.7149:

Have you seen the cost of the Commander’s armor recipes from Noxious Pods? It’s not casual friendly at all. A typical exotic set costs about 5-10 gold to make per piece.

Meanwhile it costs 20+ gold for a exotic level Commander’s armor stats recipe PER piece. That’s not even including the amount of materials to make the armor.

Recipe: Commander’s Exalted Boots
Recipe: Commander’s Emblazoned Boots
Recipe: Commander’s Draconic Pauldrons
Recipe: Commander’s Exalted Gloves
Recipe: Commander’s Emblazoned Pants
Recipe: Commander’s Exalted Mantle
Recipe: Commander’s Exalted Masque
Recipe: Commander’s Emblazoned Helm
Recipe: Commander’s Emblazoned Shoulders
Recipe: Commander’s Draconic Legs

There really needs to be be a better way to obtain Commander’s stats that doesn’t require farming Noxious Pods in Dragon’s Stand. I got lucky and obtained one recipe before, so I picked the Chestpiece for light armor (the most stats of any armor piece is the chestpiece).

The Wanderer’s armor recipe which also comes from Noxious pods is not nearly that high, about 1-2gold a piece.

If you have ascended armor it is much easier to just craft the insignia and then craft cheaper ascended stat armor (soldier’s/dire/etc) to switch it in the mystic forge using the Commander’s Intricate Gossamer Insignia which at least isn’t a random drop.

Trailblazer’s doesn’t have nearly the same problem as the recipes are below 1 gold each (likely because they come from Crystallized Supply Cache in Tangled Depths) ; Minstrel’s recipes are laughably cheap since they come from airship cargo & are not a wanted stat combination for PvEers.

The Commander’s weapon recipes don’t seem to have as large of a problem: the recipes cost anywhere from 1 to 10 gold.

Buy the recipe for Commander’s Exotic Insignia, convert an Ascended set to Commander’s Ascended set with the Exotic Insignias and Mystic Forge.

If they want to keep tight control over Spirit Shards maybe even make it drop Luck at the end of gaining a level. Just as another option that won’t mess up whatever market or resource they want protected.

I do feel pretty bad trying to get these done, I’ve played exclusively a Mesmer for all 3 and a bit years (I learn the other classes by dueling and observing). I’m just horrendous as the other classes, I feel so bad for team mates.

I think I’ll just try and pick these up at the start of seasons, shouldn’t be too bad if playing through Amber as a Rev and w/e is stupidly easy and strong next season.

Mortifer.2946:

Something needs to be changed, and it is ArenaNet’s job to figure it out. I didn’t pay 50€ for dragonhunter and raids just to find out I cannot go there with him.

AKA: ALL new specialisations should have a role in raids.

We’ve cleared the Raid with a DH every week for weeks now, its really not that big a deal.

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Experience.

Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.

Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.

No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.

The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.

xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.

Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).

[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]

[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]

Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.

Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/183093/is-there-a-term-for-discrimination-without-negative-connotation

The words you might want to use are:

- differentiate or distinction

Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:

You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.

Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.

Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.

You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.

There fixed that analogy for you.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.

The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.

Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.

Good point, on:

- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotation

you getting what I’m trying to point at brah?

Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.

ps.

Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

So your link proves my point as well, thank you.

Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).

People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.

Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.

Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).

Correct, and this has done abosultely diddly squat in disproving that discriminate has a negative conotation and was used (and mostly gets used) in this negative way, see this entire thread.

You see now we’ve established people are using it in a biased and stupid way we can start eliminating the worthiness of their posts.

When the dust settles all we’ll have is “DPS meters give you information on which to make decisions” and I shall think it good.

Except that correcting people’s grammer, spelling and/or vacabulary and use theirof does not change their irrational behavior nor does it solve human nature.

It also does not counter past experiences which might or might not repeat themselves.

Ultimately it solves none of the dilema at hand except maybe creating more clarity in expression (which I find doubtful non-native speakers would even care about).

So I’m not sure what you believe to have proven or solved besides sidetracking this entire discussion with semantics.

Oh all the good points for DPS meters have been made many times (help builds, give accurate output which could feed into class balance, know where things go wrong personally and as a group, improve your personal play through understanding your skill usage and output) and the antiDPS meter crowd just worry about ‘discrimination’ and haven’t budged from that position.

I thought teaching them the actual definition of discrimination would at least accomplish something, you can learn something new every day. You just can’t seem to argue with these people past a certain point (see big list of pros).

[btw its ‘grammar’ (this could have been a trap but it was irresistable so nice bait if it was, if it wasn’t the delicious irony will keep me happy)]

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Experience.

Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.

Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.

No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.

The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.

xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.

Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).

[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]

[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]

Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.

Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/183093/is-there-a-term-for-discrimination-without-negative-connotation

The words you might want to use are:

- differentiate or distinction

Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:

You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.

Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.

Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.

You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.

There fixed that analogy for you.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.

The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.

Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.

Good point, on:

- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotation

you getting what I’m trying to point at brah?

Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.

ps.

Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

So your link proves my point as well, thank you.

Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).

People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.

Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.

Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).

Correct, and this has done abosultely diddly squat in disproving that discriminate has a negative conotation and was used (and mostly gets used) in this negative way, see this entire thread.

You see now we’ve established people are using it in a biased and stupid way we can start eliminating the worthiness of their posts.

When the dust settles all we’ll have is “DPS meters give you information on which to make decisions” and I shall think it good.

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Experience.

Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.

Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.

No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.

The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.

xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.

Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).

[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]

[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]

Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.

Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/183093/is-there-a-term-for-discrimination-without-negative-connotation

The words you might want to use are:

- differentiate or distinction

Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:

You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.

Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.

Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.

You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.

There fixed that analogy for you.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.

The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.

Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.

Good point, on:

- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotation

you getting what I’m trying to point at brah?

Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.

ps.

Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

So your link proves my point as well, thank you.

Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).

People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.

Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.

Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).

Ricky.4706:

it’s obvious. ad-homs and spin doctoring won’t change that.

So you think Anet set out to move people from WvW to PvP (reasonable thing for someone to want), they then thought the best way of doing this (this is where you start to look tinfoily) was to spend months making huge maps with new mechanics and depth, updating the way supply and capping works with extras like motor bikes, spend hours bigging up WvW with invited guilds and broadcasts, large meta events being rolled out, gave them their own betas to avoid bugs.

You think this was an efficient use of time to achieve their goal? Anet is a business. You seem to over look this… Such a waste of resources for nothing that wasn’t going to happen with Leagues anyway.

If you still believe it after that I stand by my tinfoil hat comment.

Just remember Zerk ammy, Scholar Runes.

If there is a DH just spam clones and auto attacks til you can murder it.

Never go over a point if you aren’t double dodging or invuln.

Moa as many DSs as possible.

Start with Portal on far when possible.

Do not res without Distortion.

Use Torch not Shield.

If your team is losing a point move QUICKLY to a free point (leave portal where you lost the teamfight if you’re retreating or keep portal to place on their’s if you’re decapping).

The trick is to remember your team mates probably won’t stomp so even if you down 2 and leave them with a team mate scream “STOMP!!!” as you leave cause otherwise both will get res’d by something.

Also I’m pretty sure Quickness kittens up stomps.. A lot.. (if you miss it at the start or end it goes awful)

Also they will spam the kitten out of you, don’t be afraid to chain your stealths and let the iZerker steal their dodges.

Now is your chance! EXTERMINATE!

Lolyta.4582:

This was just absurdly hard for me, well beyond “challenging” and not fun at all. Tried it on Herald (Exotic Zerker Shiro/ Glint) and Ranger (Ascended Zerker LB/S+A Marksman). Can’t even get past Eir and Gorm or Garp or Grup or Gurgle or wtf-ever his face is. Just stupid hard.

So, I just won’t do it. There is no reward in the game worth this level of aggravation.

Are you using CC? Cause that bit should not be causing you trouble.

Ricky.4706:

@Coulter – well consider what Vayne just stated …

“I think everyone knows the WvW population is down. But the PvP and PvE population is up, if nothing else due to free to play.”

that is no accident.

wvw, was changed…. people wanted it fixed, not changed. the new area could have been appended, but it replaced the borderland. which drove many people away.

It’s nothing about feelings or opinion, it’s obvious. Wvw had a heavy population, anet wanted pvp to be esport, wvw had lots of issues, naturally wvw’rs whom are also pvpr’s spend more time in spvp, because they don’t like the new borderlands and wvw is emptier and lost its edge….so now spvp has a bigger audience. there is a pattern there, of small teams in pvp, and small teams in dungeons, fractals…..and any other ‘limited’ size events…

somebody really really really wants elite strategy game play. it’s very obvious.

all i’m saying is they are going about it the wrong way, you can’t insist people just like each other and be elite. that’s just ….no. elite comes from seeing people in the same places many times doing the same thing you like doing. which comes from open world.

You need a tinfoil hat… Anet tried to make WvW better (they failed), the tried to make PvP better (structurally wise they succeed – no comment on balance), so yes the PvP base increased and WvW;s fell.

This was not a plan, they didn’t sit there going “mwahahaaha we’ll design giant eleborate maps with tons of time and effort and just pray to god they hate it!”

There is a logical razor best said; kittenup before conspiracy. (this will look so cute as kittenup)

Anet made a mistake with WvW and the demogaphics changed, if they deliberately wanted to destroy it can you thnk of cheaper ways? I can.

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Experience.

Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.

Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.

No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.

The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.

xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.

Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).

[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]

[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]

Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.

Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discriminate

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/discrimination (check out those nice synonyms)

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/183093/is-there-a-term-for-discrimination-without-negative-connotation

The words you might want to use are:

- differentiate or distinction

Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:

You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.

Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.

Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.

You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.

There fixed that analogy for you.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate

Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.

The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.

Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.

Cyninja.2954:

Coulter.2315:

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Experience.

Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.

Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.

No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.

The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.

xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.

Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).

[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]

[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]

Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.

Ricky.4706:

and to be clear, Social Engineering is a discipline in social science that refers to efforts to influence particular attitudes and social behaviors on a large scale.

Right, and now could you explain how this relates to GW2, because social engineering requires an engineer with a goal, I personally can find neither in context of “hardcore vs casual mindset.”

Don’t you think its just a natural occurance that 2 set of people will argue for their own benefit? Attributing a guiding hand to just natural or random events is not uncommon (just how do you think all those religions got started), but I would guard against jumping to “social engineering” conclusions with zero evidence or even motive.

People just argue their side automatically, no manipulation is required for this to take place (there is very little social engineering taking place to make your mother love you for example – unless you are just awful but she feels obligated, I hope for her case this isn’t true). Its good to be curious about things you’ve learned and try to find examples irl to bolster your understanding of the topic – I just don’t think this is the case here.

Ricky.4706:

i think the problem is the social engineering aspect of it, – or rather, casual vs hardcore.

the open world events are more casual, because u are in an area, a big beast popped on, you throw up a tag…or look for one on the map, bang…instant fight – everyone gets along because they are either too busy trying to stay alive or saying thank you for the res.

Those small teams, and even the guild hall that’s demanding of a group, is stressful for a casual player – I wish i had more friends offline that played, but i simply don’t – many guilds i’ve joined, were great for a month or 3, then just died….other new guilds i joined were trying to tell me how and when to play….that wasn’t fun…..so when I have a moment, I casually pug the big fights …and it’s a blast.

If there are simply more small team areas that you need to organize, plan, run a fixed build …blah blah….That IS hardcore. It doesn’t necessarily have to be ocd gaming, just very organized ….. to some of us it’s just a game, and all the excessive planning, organizing technical teams, 3 hour adventures with precision accuracy, is not something we are interested – some of us just want to log on for an hour and fight a bf monster and call it a day.

the more organized anet expects us to be as small organized strategic teams, the less casual it will be.

You’ve described your idea of casual and you then describe what content you like (world bosses), those things are available to you, where is the problem?

I’m not sure where your “social engineering” bit comes in.

Zeeran.6027:

I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now

I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.

Halandir.3609:

Coulter.2315:

I clearly said if you want CERTAIN things then you (if you’re time poor) need to adjust..

No you didn’t – You clearly said…

Coulter.2315:

You can do anything everyone else does just in 1hr chunks;

Quote the rest of my comment then try again.

In the mean time can we get the option to “hide shoulders” for the Outfits? But more Armour or more dye options for Outfits (I’m not a fan of only using 4 colours) would also be great.

SAB, Mursaat and more human political intrigue (preferably with Mesmers). New armours too (would be nice to get another set at least with the upcoming LS3).

Its definitely not required, it could be seen as a signifier for how much experience or devotion you have to the class/game to gear it in Ascended. Statwise though I would call it optional.