Guild Wars 2

The problem with condi is, all of them (besides bleed and burning) have secondary control effect and they are usually very easily applied which makes them more powerful than direct dmg (i can kill ppl alone by spamming scepter AA on my necro atm).

Imagine if each thief AA also applied 0.5 sec daze. That is what condis are atm.

I don’t think that they were meant to be that strong in dmg department at begin but have more of support role. I am guessing Anet ran out of ideas for powercreep and now we have fear that does high dmg, chill that does high dmg, confusion that does high dmg even if you don’t do anything, poison stacking now, burning stacking now etc.

It is also really stupid that for condis to work you need 1 stat. For direct dmg to work you usually want 3 stats.

And this is why players should lose tiers and divisions after certain amount of loses…. in EVERY division. Otherwise after certain time ruby does turn into amber kek.

Staff can replace sb on some maps (e.g. forest) but you definitely sacrifice ranged capability for it. It is a taste thing really.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Hansen.3264:

it will be so much easier to ballance a game if it had one class pr team. i know its not adressing stuff and bla bla it might be posible to create a meta where every class and multiple builds/class have a place. BUT then why dont they, its clearly been 3 years it all shifts up and down.

no class stacking would be a huge inprovement in all aspeckt ecept que times

Because Anet seems to adhere to the philosophy of imperfect balance.
Each patch certain professions, weapons etc get a stronger nudge forward in order for them to overcome the previous professions, skills, weapons that were given a stronger nudge last patch. However this philosophy and approach only works well when players are given lots of resource and options to create builds from. However gw2 as a whole doesn’t have any where near the same amount of resources and options gw1 had. With 10 professions and each profession having to 1320 skills, and each player being able to mix any 2 professions, and then blend them in various ways through skill tree point placement meant you had this diversity of resource. However in gw2 because of this lesser amount of resource it instead creates power creep. Whoever creeps the highest each patch become the apex hunter..then next patch the apex hunter gets slightly nerfed and the under dog gets buffed, and then nudged a little more to create a new apex hunter.

They actually don’t follow perfect imbalance logic. Proof? Scrappers. If Anet did follow that logic we would see scrappers, em sry, engis, not doing so well somewhere in between but they have been gold spooned since i can remember and it has been years.

Reaper is definitely is a low skill floor class/build atm. This was my first pick for class achievement (which i did in diamond btw, in both seasons).

That being said reaper is necessary evil until gold spooned child of Anet gets nerfed … aka scrappers.

Allison The Strange.4519:

About when was it? What class was your main? What was your build? What is one of the best plays you made at that time?

Personally my favorite time was right before the trait overhaul and removing stats from the traitlines. I was a condi survival ranger and I loved it more than anything else I had played in any game.

The play I best remember was back when we had the TDM map in rotation (I don’t remember the name). I was playing a spirit ranger and was caught away from team in a 3v1. I used my elite spirit and used its’ ability right before I went into downstate, it picked me up and one of the three ran away leaving me in a 2v1. I was soon brought back into downstate and the two enemies cleaved down my spirit which caused it to cast its ability bringing me back up yet again. Once again one of the enemies left the fight and I was left with a 1v1. I quickly downed and stomped out the remaining player and went to aid my team. Soon after regrouping with my team we wiped them and won the game by only a single kill.

Edit: I wasn’t very specific with the time, it was before the summer patches of 2015.

- hambow meta – back then powerful skills had long CDs or high opportunity costs, classes/builds weren’t overbudgeted etc.; YOU COULD SOLO OTHER CLASSES ON THIEF BACK THEN OMG (if you played well that is)
- thief ofc
- dp da/cs/tr i think
- idk what was best play but i remember pretty good how we faced 4 warrior + something else and those 4 wars kept going home where i soloed each of them easily due to how dp countered wars (was before bp got nerfed); i think i had 30? kills at the end of the match… still don’t know why those guys kept going to point with a thief instead of going somewhere else

You know what is ridiculous about whole thing? For 3 years players were complaining about thieves until Anet nerfed the class into oblivion. Now people complain about having thief on team. You know what? EAT WHAT YOU ASKED FOR!

OP, i will pray that you will get 4 thieves on your team each match.

0/10 would read again

Idk why are you surprised. It has been like this for 2 seasons now. The closer you get to next division the more players you face from that division.

lmperdigao.2567:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Heh, thought this thread was about the chick on the videos. So not impressed with her.

kitten , now here I am laughing like silly to this.

i couldn’t resist

got to end of ruby with vanilla da/sa/tr dp, had to switch to DD due to higher divisions being flooded with revs but till legend/diamond it is doable

UmbraNoctis.1907:

You should read the description of the video before complaining about the clicking …

was definitely my bad, i read only forum post, didn’t read youtube description, edited post

@Celine.6857:

I won’t comment on how to play ele as i main thief and i wouldn’t dare to do so. So just general remarks:

- begin of the match – you are ele, your job is sit on point and support teammates – yet you went to stomp downed guy somewhere away from point when you already had teammates follow dead guy -> don’t do it, it is not your main job unless guy got downed on point

- you wiped enemy at begin, chances are they will spawn and might rush your home -> send someone there to watch it right after you wiped enemy team (and yep it got decapped while i was typing this lol)

- for point above, if enemy has semi decent thief your home will be ALWAYS decapped you have to dedicate someone (druid preferably) to sit between home and mid to go to home fast enuff <<tell it to your teammates

- once again you fight/ran off point when enemy came mid. Rule number 1 in conquest point > all. Don’t fight off roads, always keep your point in vision so you can charge there to hold it in time. You are ele not thief or rev to chase enemies.

- set targets (use keybind for it) it will help team to focus one guy. Usually ele is not a good target, focus dps first.

- mid was lost, it was good to go far for sure

- once again you are too busy with stomping instead of trying to decap point, you have knockbacks and CC, use them; you could have had decap at mid but you chose to go off point and stomp some guy

- you saw that your necro was going far, you should have stalled enemy ele instead of leading him to far point

- once again you guys leave home open all the time and enemy thief can decap it all day

- once again at the end of the video you leave point for offroads fights, don’t do that – far got decapped because of it

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

ok OP, pm me ingame if ur N/A and i have an alt account in ruby, and with couple of my friends i will carry u out from whatever tier or division ur stuck.

you are not doing him a favor by this

Chaith.8256:

All these kitten major league players in Emerald and Sapphire, just tryna keep a girl down

You have all these close 500-350 games that were clearly winnable if things were done differently

#post a match video

#posting in daily Ithilwen thread

Omg i am quoting Chaith again but pretty much this ^^

I personally spent like 2? weeks in ruby but i got out eventually, matches are winnable, enemy team always makes a lot of mistakes (especially in lower divisions) – ABUSE IT!!!!!

If your team can’t win team fights, split enemy team. Roam a lot, usually games are lost because of bad rotations <- that applies to enemy team as well.

As far as mixed divisions goes: it is very common especially when you are 1-2 tiers away/after threshold (in those cases it is almost 99% guaranteed to happen). It was like this last season and is the same this season. If you are in sapphire i wouldn’t really care much whether there are ruby players in match or not, you will see slight skill difference in mid of diamond maybe but entire ruby atm is just new amber, there are a lot of players that are even worse than you xD

Asrat.2645:

Im perfectly fine with the class being very punishing. If i screw up and get caught in a dh trap and die of it, ok. No problem. I make a mistake, I die: alright, thats kinda why I play thief.
My main issues are those:
1)Even if you make no mistakes, you cant really win a whole lot of fights. Even the unavoidable passive pressure is enough to force me to disengage or perhaps even kill me.
2)The class should be rewarding. You make mistakes, you die. You make no mistakes: they die.
But it doesnt work that way. If I manage to kill some1 its not because I landed a good vault, its because my opponent was too stupid to dodge it. And of cousre some classes can just heal all damage I deal, even if they allowed me to stand right next to them and autoattack.

I know some people are fine with the rotate only role we have. I dont get that to be honest. It sucks hard. And even if you make it work on highest level, pro league proves us, that it is not enough against equally skilled players.

Anyways, I find all these people wanting to ‘quit gw2’ a litte overly dramatic. If things dont work out for you, you fight to make them better, you dont just turn around and look another way.
For me working on ways to improve a game has become a huge part of the fun. Gw2 is probably one of the main reasons, I havent joined any political organization yet ^^

I really think that thief is ok but it just gets extremely overshadowed by other classes. The powercreep introduced with HoT really ruined it for us as well. Say miracle would happen and all the aoe, CC and passives would get toned down, i think thief would be waaaayy better off and probably even appear on pro league rosters. Buffing thief is not exactly helpful as it would be just fighting cancer with another cancer = at the end host dies anyway.

I really wish devs would just take old logic back (risk vs reward, opportunity costs etc.) and apply it to the current state of classes/elites (yes even thief has cheese that needs to be toned down), e.g. AoE is very powerful thing, why the hell it is on short CD and does a lot of single target dmg in many cases?
Or mobility got thrown at other classes like candy (hello druid has RTL on 15 CD which allows him to camp mid and home at the same time, i don’t even want to start on revs) when it supposed to be selling point of the thief.

But….. i don’t see how any common sense will ever be applied to balancing because
1. they still try to force players to buy HoT
2. raids – if classes get toned down, your average pve Joe won’t be able to complete raids – GG pvp suffers from raid balancing like it did in wow for years while being completely separate game mode
3. they actually don’t have much clue in a lot of cases and it is not my words

Well they wanted to sell HoT. They took everything guards/wars/thieves ever wanted and made new class – revs. Revs also happen to counter thieves pretty hard. More reasons to buy HoT. That being said, chances that thief will be in better position are relative low unless devs finally decide to tone down powercreep.

OMG this is hilarious, i didn’t think about it and i am forced to farm Tarir every day because of legendary weapon…. HAHAHAHAHAA, totally gonna be walking with exalted legend there starting tomorrow xD

As far as titles go, i think Anet kind of shot themself in the foot like Blizzard did. In wow all titles go like furious gladiator, merciless gladiator etc. I think eventually they ran out of ideas and titles became more and more …umm… odd. League kept it simple, challenger season XY kek.

The gliding mastery allows you to fly faster if you hold key for moving forwards. The problem with it, it doesn’t register if you hold left and right mouse keys (also moves your character forward on the ground).

I personally don’t use any keys for moving forward but mouse ones (due to pvp keybinds, etc.) and it would be really nice if mouse keys that actually do affect character movement also would affect glider boost. Thank you.

Dahkeus.8243:

It’s a legendary backpiece for a competitive game type. I don’t see why this is shocking to anyone. It’s not supposed to be for everyone. =/

^^this

Or rather it can be for everyone if they actually put some time and effort in pvp just like all the veterans and pro players did…. kek.

I think it is so funny how everyone expects those wings handled to them for mindless farming. Oh no, why should i queue if i can’t get them. Ummmmm, pvp is player vs player and i think at the end players do it for pvp enjoyment/experience? The shiney visuals, reward tracks etc. are just extra bonus…… If you are doing pvp just purely for wings, then sry man you might have come with wrong attitude here. Besides if i wanted legendary armor i would need to commit so much into it and i couldn’t complain about it on pve forums, yet it is ok to complain about it on pvp forums, what?

Then again what else to expect from a guy that thinks that chronobunkers in season 1 were balanced and mained PU condi pre HoT kek.

morrolan.9608:

Cynz.9437:

I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.

Totally different game with a population large enough that pip range does represent skill level therefore they are effectively matching up players of the same mmr. GW2 has a small pop and the way the system is pip range does not represent skill. Effectively league is doing exactly what I am saying. Anywya the pip system has clear issues whether its used by league or other games in that when one reaches their natural plateau its not a pleasant experience to go up and down gaining then losing pips. Basing divisions on the actual mmr as other competitive games do is a far better solution in terms of gamer psychology.

Cynz.9437:

In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games.

Yes through exploits.

Competitive games do not use pure MMR and even if they do it is connected to the league system they have, in gw2 MMR and leagues are so far from each other it is not even funny.

There were indeed some exploiters but not as many as you would think.

Supreme.3164:

fishball.7204:

Honestly they should’ve kept the backpiece and the divisions separate. This allows the skilled players or people who care, to climb to legend but leaving the people who can’t or won’t, still able to get the backpiece through sheer effort.

Some might argue that the PvP backpiece is prestige but I don’t see it that way at all, it’s just a farm and anyone who’s done any sort of PvP can get it over 2-4 PvP leagues. The prestige should have been the guild leaderboards the legend X10 or whatever leaderboards.

A simple fix would have been to remove divisions from the achievements and maybe change it to something else.

And there are dozen of skins I will never get because…I don’t pve regularly and neither I belong to a raiding guild, I don’t see why pvers should feel so entitled to anything , are we talking about the same people who kick you out if you lack the correct gear for a raid? the same ones who said to have no time to teach you this and that trick to speed up the map clearing?

…Sorry somehow I don’t feel that “good” about giving the skin for free, if not can I get a reward track for the : ghostly infusion, legendary armor etc etc?

Just for “sheer effort” I should get my hands on the anything by your logic…sorry it doesn’t work like that anywhere, you’re either good enough to get it…or you don’t that’s how reality works both in pve and pvp apparently

^^this

I had to farm and do some much pve (which i really really really hate), especially for new legendary (still farming) but if i came and started to QQ about it on general forums i would get flamed for 20 pages straight by raid elitist, fractal elitist and general pve’ers. But we can’t have a skin that actually requires some commitment (btw leagues are still farmboards) to pvp, oh noes!

@fishball: here is the thing: for long time there were NO rewards in pvp. People did pvp for pvp not for some shiney crap. What motivation did new players back then had? I was one of those new players, i was consistently farmed by better players all the time. I did stay because my goal wasn’t some crappy dyes or rewards, i wanted to pvp and i knew i would need to get farmed and learn from it for long time before i get some satisfying results. The pve’ers that come to pvp for the back expect everything handled to them just because they farm it. This is not what pvp is about, it is player vs player after all and not player vs dumb AI that is designed to die.

In any other game that had competitive pvp for long time nobody complains about unable to reach top 1% (10%, you name it). Because people do realize it is not something everyone supposed to reach and if you want it you need to practice a lot, it is not something you should be able to just reach by mindless farm. Take a guess how many people get 2200 rating weapons in wow, take a guess how many people get gladiator mount in wow. Not many. And those rewards actually mean something, they show you reached certain rating, you actually got some skill in pvp. In gw2, season 1 legend icon didn’t mean crap – because it was farmable, even by worst player.
A lot of gw2 players are spoiled by the casual attitude this game had for long time. I am glad that at least pvp part of this game becomes more competitive.

As far as 30+ matches losing streak goes, it is mainly issue with current matchmaking always putting together winning and losing team. It can be addressed but in the end majority of players won’t see legend/diamond and they shouldn’t.

morrolan.9608:

Cynz.9437:

morrolan.9608:

Why not simply match enemy teams based on mmr.

It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.

That wasn’t what we had in season 1, I’m talking about matching both teammates and opposing teams by mmr, most competitive games do this. Your first 2 sentences don;t make sense, a win in any division is worth a pip.

Last season matchmaking was almost completely based on MMR. Both enemy and player team were out together based on their MMR. Matchmaking was trying to put every player into 50% win rate. Meaning person with low MMR was facing players with low MMR in emerald, player with high MMR had to beat pro players to get out of emerald. Problem is player with low MMR never faced as much challenge as player with high MMR all the way to the legend. The value of 1 pip for player with high MMR was completely different to a player with low MMR but effect was the same, they both moved to same division and ironically never faced each other (until maybe high legend).

I take example League (competitive enough for you, no?) the matchmaking there IS heavily based on your division/piprange (other terms there, same thing). Meaning each pip in different division/tier there actually had same value to good and bad players. A pip (ca. 20 pts out of 100 there) in silver is hard to get for bad player but easy to get for good player. A pip in diamond division is impossible to get for bad player but represents average/hard difficulty for good player. This is how it should be.

In season 1 pip in amber was really easy for player with low MR and really hard for player with high MMR. 1 pip in diamond division was still relative easy/average for player with low MMR and hard for player with high MMR. What is there not to understand? The player with high MMR had to sweat through entire league to legend while player with low MMR got to legend (where he definitely doesn’t belong) by having “easy” games. Which led to another issues:
- we had really really bad players in legend
- bad players actually got an illusion they belong in legend and now all the QQ spammed on forums about how they are stuck in sapphire/ruby and how it is system fault (meanwhile really good players get multiple accounts to legend) is direct cause of it.

I am not defending current system, it is obviously flawed, but it is better than what we had last season. Leagues/ranked supposed to be competitive and not some welfare track for every casual in game.

fishball.7204:

Adding that would only worsen legend/diamond queue times since a lot of people do their class profession wins (or try to) due to the limited risk involved by not being able to drop divs.

Like if I knew I was risking losing legend, I’d just stop playing once I hit legend until next league and many other people would too.

You could keep the title and achieves don’t go away. What the problem?

Could also add decay like it is implemented in league – you don’t play for long time, bye tier/division.

By not losing tiers/divisions we just have entire pvp community (besides some better players) in ruby = very big hotjoin where we have all kind of skill represented and farming is unavoidable.

I personally couldn’t care less, i got legend in both season by handicapping myself with one of the worst classes to play in current meta. I got my wings and could afk for the rest of the year. Thing is i probably would queue anyway, even if i was permanently sitting in amber. In first year + after launch there were no real rewards in pvp, people actually played it for pvp. I joined this game for pvp, i loved it (can’t say that about stupid powercreep introduced by HoT). I do however see the issues and i think we do need more players in pvp, even bad ones. Or we won’t have anyone to fight.

morrolan.9608:

Agemnon.4608:

Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary?

Why not simply match enemy teams based on mmr.

It doesn’t work well with pip system. Because every win gives a pip. Meaning you will always face enemies of your MMR but gain as many pips as say team of way better players than you beating a team with way better player than you. We had that last season. Leagues were literary glorified reward track – nothing else. We just had once again all kind of players in legend and diamond that definitely don’t belong there.

Agemnon.4608:

Cynz.9437:

fishball.7204:

mysticsicness.7598:

I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.

Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.

to be fair the skill difference in legend is so huge between individual players

Maybe there needs to be a division between diamond and legendary? Leagues are supposed to have players of approximate skill level and we really need to have division drops. I’d rather be a Sapphire with a consistent reasonable daily win/loss record instead of a Ruby unfortunate enough to be on the lower MMR end for the pip range.

I made a thread suggesting that matchmaking should be base don pips/division and that palyer should lose tiers/divisions after X amount of loses. But it all died in the rain of QQ about ruby and matchmaking.

As it stands, while current leagues are a bit more skill based, they are still farmboards with bit more sprinkles.

As far as legend goes, to be fair, there IS extra division for top player – pro league duhh. That being said, there are too many players that don’t belong in legend or diamond for that matter but as stated before farmboards are farmboards.

fishball.7204:

mysticsicness.7598:

I have already hit legend, but matchmaking is still complete trash. You get matched with the same team/party of people over and over into a tiltfest. Not very fun game play design IMO.

Can confirm even in legend balanced games aren’t common.

to be fair the skill difference in legend is so huge between individual players

Or could just nerf revs~

I think i spent almost 2? weeks in ruby, about a week? in diamond. I probably didn’t do myself a favor by playing vanilla thief till end of ruby or playing thief in generally (not to mention i have a job so i don’t have much time to pvp from begin with) but i don’t care much about divisions really, i just want to have fun. Eventually i got to legend so idk what all the fuss is about. Legend/diamond are barely better than ruby imo.

The leagues are still too close to farmboards so i am sure a lot of players will reach legend just by farming anyway.

Abdel Muhti.6431:

I do the Tarir Meta Event successfully every day multiple times. I use the lfg-tool search. Be sure to circle around and do damage to every of the 4 octovines. Buy at least 27 keys. Go underground. Enjoy the loot. You will get ~20+ aucric dust each meta.

The hyper is over? It just began. You wont get more loot for any other event in such a little time.

There was nothing on LFG and i couldn’t get any ppl to taxi in. We had just a handful for 1 gate….

Oh yeah i spent over hour? in tarir just to get 2 dusts….

Any other HoT materials like sparks, crystalline dust, airship oil can be obtained by looting chests in the corresponding maps. The 100% completion of the big map event is not required.

Problem with auric dust it can be found only in exalted chests (and very rarely in noxious pods) which are only available (in reasonable amounts) if you kill all 4 octovines. Why is it a problem? Well the hype is over and getting full map to do Tarir in prime time turned out to close to impossible. It would be great if another “reasonable” way of obtaining dust was available.

tl/dr: wtb other way to obtain pile of auric dust.

Eagelseye.6312:

Lastly the matchmaking as seen in this screenshot when I did soloQ says it all. I am Nefarmius in that screenshot.

and what exactly is wrong with this screenshot?

Ahh finally people start to catch up how ridiculously overtuned scrapper is~

Too bad anet probably won’t touch the gold spooned child until Grouch quits his job.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

@Jana: if you really think that that build is that bad and your stats are achievable in pvp why don’t you go pvp and record some of your games with your amazing build. I am even willing to queue with you so you get to face legend player

They aren’t – Both valk and zerker have power as a base.
That build is bad when it comes to wvw, that’s why I asked you guys if it does you any favours in pvp and Deceiver explained to me that both have got different scalings when it comes to damage
Try to get it, alright? All of the above =)

ETA: And when you look at the OP you’ll see that the thief in that video really looks like a noob – not his fault, I guess – so yeah, pvp is worse off than wvw atm. Why don’t you go to wvw and try your amazing marauder build? We have marauder in wvw, did you know? I can even give you tipps how to defeat me, if you like.

ETA²: And by the way I never said I had amazing gear, I just summarized my build – but alas, every little thing I say is bragging, right? And it’s easier to get everything wrong than one thing right.

You were pretty much bashing on the most commonly used build in pvp and tossed wvw into argument which is completely irrelevant for tournaments. In fact why do you still bring up wvw into this discussion? I thought this thread was about thief performance in the tourney. Cool, i can go wvw, what would it change? What would it prove? Nothing. Because wvw is IRRELEVANT for pvp.

PvP is worse off than wvw? And how did you come to such conclusion?

I never claimed that pvp build would work well in wvw. The game modes are extremely different, idk why i need to explain it to you over and over and over again.

When did i say you were bragging? I guess you felt like you were since you mentioned it :P

OP, what would it look like if matchmaking was based purely on divsion/piprange?

Rotate simply put is strategical movement around the map. Some fights are not winnable, some fights are easily winnable with less people on point, sometimes you have to abandon team fight to steal animal or go for lord. With proper rotation you can win games even if your team loses every big team fight (have done it many many times).

The problem with good rotations – it takes A LOT of experience in pvp. Every situation requires different action. There are lot of variables that affect decisions as well, e.g. classes your team has, classes your enemy has, how good players are, gimmicky spells that can turn game (sup portal, moa), animal is being killed, lord is being killed, someone using treb, how many enemies are on respawn etc.

I would say probably best way to learn proper rotations is to play thief, it is their main job to rotate around the map fast and be so to say everywhere. The class is so risky and unrewarding that 1 bad rotation, 1 bad mistake can cost you a match. It forces you to look at the map every few sec, count enemies, count classes, judge your and enemy team skill etc. I don’t think there is really simple guide to it. I think if someone did write it it would be easily 300 (if not more) pages book.

If you really want to learn how to rotate properly you probably need to
- play A LOT of matches (even after 5k matches and tourney experience i still make mistakes)
- record your matches and look what you could have done better as far moving around the map goes, where you would be most effective
- watch pro league, watch how they support each other, abuse enemy team weakness etc.
- try to get on a team with ts, you will learn A LOT by playing with them

LastHope.8127:

Cynz.9437:

LastHope.8127:

So I was a diamond player in S1, then I took 2 months off cus I had other stuff to do and now I came back this week to join S2 ranked season.

So the problem with joining a season late with high MMR is there are no high MMR players to play with.. and more notably, against. The result? take a look at my match history in the attachments from the last 3ish days. (the 500-400 match was the only match I played with a team to help my guild out, the rest was solo queue).

My suggestion to fix this needless timewaste and absolute cakewalk trough the divisions is to up the winstreak bonus the longer you keep it going or something like that. Because I cant even find the motivation to play when I already know its gonna be a landslide win.

What division are you in?

I am now 2 wins from Sapphire and still havn’t lost a match yet. I can’t bother playing beyond the 3 daily matches untill I can start the part IV achievements

Get to diamond, then talk about winstreak. We all (players with higher MMR) had endless winstreaks until ruby/diamond.

@Jana: if you really think that that build is that bad and your stats are achievable in pvp why don’t you go pvp and record some of your games with your amazing build. I am even willing to queue with you so you get to face legend player

@DeceiverX: i haven’t said ascended is a problem. My point is there are so many variables in wvw due to pvp gear/food/buffs etc. that are not available in pvp that you simply can’t compare numbers in this mode flat like that.

The problem with pvp stats generally – for dps thief you have only 1 option atm: marauder. Zerker is actually not an option as you end up running with 11K~ HP and get 1 shotted by literary everything. You also can’t completely drop ferocity and those 2 amulets are only that offer power/prec/ferocity. So yes, marauder amy is the closest you can get to zerker/valk in pvp as thief in pvp.

I am only one that misses hambow meta?

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

That is about the most standard build you run as thief in pvp atm. I got to legend with it, so ya it works (in fact i had to reroll to this build, with refuge however, from vanilla dp because of revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD and precision strike going through walls, dodges, ignoring range limit etc.)
DD gives you enough dodges to deal with revs and for moblity around the map. Your main dmg comes from impact disruption and AA. Backstab is worthless considering the effort it takes to land a proper one (in pvp that is, since you never 1v1 as thief there).

Due to pvp multiplies and amulets dmg is different there compared to madness of imabalance in wvw. You will never see such mad numbers in pvp as you see them in wvw.

Ok, most of the time you got to legend with vanilla builds, now you got to legend with this build
It actually doesn’t make sense to me: You can’t really dish out damage, you have no sustain. If this really is something people think is good, then well yeah: ANET; DO SOMETHING!!!
(As you can see even my AA is higher than this guy’s – I’m running valk/zerk with CS, SA, T – food has got power and vitality – I had 20 or 25 stacks of bloodlust)

Btw: wvw looks more balanced than the mess I’ve seen in this video: granted when we were small scaling the other day and defeated our enemies a random dead thief we hadn’t even seen before appeared – death by cleave. I said it in another thread: Think of food as an extra trinket, there isn’t much more to it. And well, we had no “runes tweak”, still.. Maybe I should watch a few videos from Sinderer again.

ETA: I actually have to admit that it’s worse than I thought. If you’d take staff or S/X as a second set (DA makes a lot more sense with those weapons) you’d miss out on SB, if you replaced D/P, you’d miss out on “out of jail card” – I get that backstab misses most of the time thanks to all the blocks – but honestly; this is a mess, even all D/P has got is broken builds which make little sense. Yeah well, lets hope for next patch, aight?!

And if someone from metabuilds reads this: please don’t advertise that build as “meta” for wvw – thanks. I’m having a hard time convincing a friend that it’s crap.

Why do you think that that build does no dmg? Thieves also were never about sustain.
Stats are not bound to traits anymore. It is mainly determined by amulet now. You don’t have classes there walking around with high HP/toughness like in wvw because it is simply not possible.

You judge pvp on wvw numbers, cmon now. It is completely different environment, with completely different variables and numbers.

WvW more balanced? One guy runs with ascended, other doesn’t. One has broken food, other can’t gain much from that food. Tanky stats and broken sigils/rune sets are available in wvw, in pvp they aren’t. Oh let’s forget about other buffs that are not available in pvp~

P.S. fun fact, you said you run mix of valk/zerker. Take a guess what amulet it would be in pvp.

LastHope.8127:

So I was a diamond player in S1, then I took 2 months off cus I had other stuff to do and now I came back this week to join S2 ranked season.

So the problem with joining a season late with high MMR is there are no high MMR players to play with.. and more notably, against. The result? take a look at my match history in the attachments from the last 3ish days. (the 500-400 match was the only match I played with a team to help my guild out, the rest was solo queue).

My suggestion to fix this needless timewaste and absolute cakewalk trough the divisions is to up the winstreak bonus the longer you keep it going or something like that. Because I cant even find the motivation to play when I already know its gonna be a landslide win.

What division are you in?

Necros are extremely easy to be effective on (one of the profs i used for wings achieve) with little experience. But as said before they get shut down fast if focused by decent players.
Get to legend man, it is FLOODED with revs. Those actually have tools to troll 3 enemies and keep point decapped for half match (have done it myself). They can easily fill thief role but also are extremely good team fighter. Those are real problem but do take a bit more experience to play than necros so you don’t see as many in lower divisions (besides any half decent rev main is in diamond/legend already).

Stealth is not expensive if you run TR (which is own issue, since it makes TR mandatory), the issue is scrappers and revs spamming revealed off CD. Dodge they say, cool story, just another thing on the list you need to dodge vs those classes that can literary 2 shot you with anything they fart around them that is why DD became a must since they actually do have enough dodges (sup 6).

On top of it backstab is a joke given the effort it takes to land proper one. Protection, dmg reduction traits and weakness were handled out to other classes like candy so even if you execute perfect backstab it will probably do like 600 dmg (hello revs).

I actually met few warriors that did well in matches on the way to legend, idk why people freak out so much. Grats, OP!

@Dahkeus.8243: the problem is diamond/legend is it is flooded with revs and any half decent rev will train you all match and won’t let you decap/+1 anything. Bottom line you have to be better than anyone in match (including own team) in most cases to do well. So say you face someone of same skill, you are worthless on thief. This is what is really wrong with this class.

As said before, elites introduced insanse powercreep while Lord left weak. Definitely needs a buff. HP+breakbar would a start. Also, would be great if lord didn’t break stealth right away but it is too much to ask from AI design probably.

DH are real problem due to bad AI. They drop traps, ok even if you managed to get to lord fast chances are the stupid lord will continue to walk over traps and kill himself. You can’t prevent AI from facetanking everything enemy throws at them (besides mesmer invul aoe).

Jana.6831:

The traits/that build makes sense with S/D, like I said, but not with D/P. I mean, that poor guy was insta downed the moment I got my proper backstab in (first was likely from the front as I was backstabbing a mob).
That build is just so unreliable, that’s why I wonder it is meta.
Does it do you guys any good in pvp?

That is about the most standard build you run as thief in pvp atm. I got to legend with it, so ya it works (in fact i had to reroll to this build, with refuge however, from vanilla dp because of revs and scrappers spamming reveal off CD and precision strike going through walls, dodges, ignoring range limit etc.)
DD gives you enough dodges to deal with revs and for moblity around the map. Your main dmg comes from impact disruption and AA. Backstab is worthless considering the effort it takes to land a proper one (in pvp that is, since you never 1v1 as thief there).

Due to pvp multiplies and amulets dmg is different there compared to madness of imabalance in wvw. You will never see such mad numbers in pvp as you see them in wvw.

As far as Duck goes, he definitely engaged too many team fights instead of looking for empty points (you can count enemies on the map, he could easily see that nobody was at mine for example or at hendge later in the match because all 5 enemies were in team fights or dead). You can’t stay for longer than few sec on team fights as a thief in current meta. His team also left him with enemy ele to defend point which was really bad idea.

Raek.8504:

Cynz.9437:

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Your rotation to far means zero if you can’t kill anyone 1v1. If 5 k matches is low to understand something in this limited game ? Give me a break. I m not discussing my experience, it’s fine by me. Thou i can imagine how it affects people less experienced in PvP.

I am talking about that imaginary guy with amazing mechanical skill. You said he doesn’t have many matches.

Also why the hell would you rotate to far that is already capped by enemy and there is someone defending it (unless it is a thief) ?

Raek.8504:

Dojo.1867:

I think your MMR can indeed be worse than your actual skill level – for example when you tilt but keep playing or if you play with your weaker classes.

Also mmr hell implies that you cannot get out of it what I doubt will be the case for OP. He is on a losing streak but he will be able to break it unlike people that are actually bad and deserve the low mmr.

Ok, i was diamond on my acc somewhere around 2-2.5 weeks ago, i m mainly WvWvW roamer with 3 years experience in this game i have somewhere around 5 k matches, i lost around 20 + matches, to ESL pro league players mixes back then. My MMR is stable so i don’t suffer from that much.

What happens with another good (mechanically) or semi good players in that sense when he starts of facing way way way tougher opponent when they don’t have many games invested in sPvP ? His MMR starts decline and he can’t fall in the devisions bellow, MMR is not suffers much but it suffers, more loose streaks and it suffers quiet alot actually.

And then happens this, he is stuck on the bottom with TRUE skill level of 1500 MMR lets say. But his MMR is around 1200. System finds him teammates within that 1200 MMR range and randomly gives opponents of 1500.

It’s the same as saying Pro player can carry team which is way below his skill level against Pro player team mix on opposing side in lesser scale. Is it so hard to comprehend ?

Your example doesn’t work because most games are won by good rotations not just mechanical skill. Good rotations and teamplay require experience – you will get that experience only by doing pvp. A LOT of it. A person that have done a lot of pvp matches does have stable mmr. A person with very few pvp games does not have that experience and frankly doesn’t deserve to be in higher divisions until he learns how to play on pvp maps.

Ruru.1302:

Cynz.9437:

Ithilwen claimed in other threads that chronobunker from season 1 was balanced (oh and he mained condi PU mes pre HoT apprently). No need to say more.

How can someone be so ignorant?

I present you typical condi mes main.