Guild Wars 2

When the game has just started, it was much more fun to do dungeons.
Because nobody knew of these stacking mechanics and stuff.
However, we spend a lot more time trying to get it right, still new and fresh off, knowing nothing.
It’s sad that new players are “robbed” of this new world experience.
But what can be done? Player’s have just found the fastest and most efficient way to do them.

Sword/torch + staff is somewhat unorthodox to be honest.
But you’ve nailed it – since Guardian can make use of every single stat, it’s worth it.
All the changes to critical damage seem to be only useful to Celestial – getting stats rebalanced more evenly probably is going to make it even better. But it depends on new values, of course.
But it just might be worth it to get some Knight or berserker pieces to round up on stats you want the most – that is, power/prec/crit damage(not now, but after the change it will be fine to get some extra critical damage), and toughness.
Toughness, that is because Guardian naturally has a lot of effective health(Because of heals, mind me – even with lowest base HP it turns out that you have a lot whole more when you keep regenerating it), and even more so because both Vitality and Healing Power are essentially the same thing – they enlarge your health bar. So you could essentially say that you get way too many stats increasing your health pool and too little – protecting it(Unlike damage formula, where power, precision and critical damage are multiplicative to each other, survivability is different. Vitality and Healing Power are additive to each other and multiplicative to Toughness).
What I get out of it is that you might want to get some Knight(recommended) and Berserker(recommended after the change goes through) pieces to complement your celestial stat spread-out. Or you might not, and instead compensate with stats from traits/food/buffs/etc.
0/0/20/30/20 could be much better off as 0/5/10/30/25, too. I’m not sure what traits you are running but both 25 in virtues and 5 in radiance seem to be of extreme importance to me.

foofad.5162:

Can’t stress getting 15 Radiance enough. It completely negates the attacks of many difficult Veteran enemies, making it possible to solo them with ease.

And how does refreshing virtues on kill helps to take down veterans?
First: taking down veterans is easy mode.
I might see the point if you are talking about a group of veteran enemies, such as wvw camp or a dungeon(DPS build actually involves getting 25 in radiance so yeah), because then you’ll be spamming VoJ. Even then it might not be the best point investment.
But if he’s one? 5 usually suffices for me in most cases; I think that 15 is not a must.

WvW
I’m not using neither Rune of Speed, neither traveler’s. Instead I’m opting out to keep up swiftness uptime.
I’m running Save Yourselves and Lyssa Runes, but the real way to get that swiftness for me is Bowl of Seaweed Salad together with Sigil of Speed on my second weapon set. You get either 13 seconds, either 26 seconds of swiftness(60% chance) on killing a mob/player this way. Needless to say, if I’m roaming, following a solo cap of a camp I’m having around 1:30 swiftness uptime left and can run anywhere I want.
Well, my build has 30 points in virtues, so that helps with it a bit.
That’s a refreshing solution that allows you to use different runes – namely, Lyssa with it’s amazing (6) effect that makes my Guardian SO strong.
PvP
I’m generally disappointed in PvP mobility as Guardian
It’s either Rune of Speed or deal with it.
But they offer bizarre stats(don’t get me wrong – vitality is good. But with PvP amulets I’m running either barbarian either zerker, and both of them most certainly do not lack vitality!) and provide swiftness while already having passive bonus to movement speed. Since they don’t stack, that feels like adding insult to injury.
So.. I’m dealing without them, somehow. Couldn’t play without my runes of lyssa, still want a godmode button.

I could name 10 ways to make build better, and then probably quite a few more.
No Swiftness/No Passive +25% = Slug
Signet Of Resolve = Debatable
Traits – 100 reasons and some more why they are bad. No Virtues? Signet Mastery(with 1 signet?) Wrathful Spirit?
Gear – Both Sigils and Runes(omg?) are far from optimal.
No Ascended Gear?
Too much precision and critical damage, too little power to achieve optimal DPS/power) provide all the same DPS increase.

If it’s fake, then let it be.
But an Elite spirit Weapon might be funny for soloing.
Imagine a Guardian with 4 spirit weapons around him? That opens new possibilities with it’s own little army. Nothing I enjoy, but it could be worth trying out.
It’s also interesting how you apply boons to 5 targets with your virtues/spells/shouts(well not like you would have any shouts with 4 spirit weapons), that’s Guardian and 4 allies around him… you get my point.
But then again, I was under impression Tomes of Courage/Judgment represented an Elite Spirit Weapon that you actually hold, and they also buff your own spirit army, too… sooo… fake much?

And if you sit tight and combine both DPS, Tank and Support for Off-Tanky playstyle(fits in completely well with the lack of trinity), You’ll get quite a solid monster on your hands.
Inbetween all the selfish traits, Save Yourselves and Renewed Focus(Oh, and also Lyssa Runes, but anything with Boon Duration also hits the spot), having issues with Regeneration and Protection is something beyond me – it’s like having an issue with Aegis or Blinds on Guardian for me.
Well anyway, OP is so ignorant of it. I’ve played 1.1k hours on my warrior and then re-rolled to my Guardian, and never regretted my decision, actually feeling much stronger both in 1v1 and in teamwork.
Guardian mobility is on par with Warrior if we talk about sticking, too…

What I’m supposed to do with a Fractal Rifle on my Guardian? It’s Account Bound, granted, but I do not foresee myself playing classes that use it.
I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s not like RNG is bad.
But everything has to have it’s bounds.
If I’m a Guardian, make a lottery out of weapon choices that I can use. No Rifles, No Axes, No Spears and No Daggers please. You get what I’m talking about here.
Alternatively, you can let player’s choose a fractal weapon(Ascended Weapon Chest for example), mix RNG with Guaranteed(Pristine Fractal Relics now can be used to buy skins, they can still drop) or make them tradeable – just like legendaries are.

Of course it needs to be implemented.
There are people that want it, there are no people that do not want it. Simple enough?
If you don’t like it, don’t change your race. You won’t be worse off in guild wars 2 than others if you don’t buy it.
On the other hand, we have people practically begging for it tired of their Asura’s with peanut-sized Eternities.
And there isn’t a single problem with achievements/crap/whatever. It’s all doable.
Achievements – WTF? Where did you even find a problem?
Story – Have you ever completed it? Newsflash, you have NO PERSONAL STORY after you have done it. No Home Instance? Hell yeah, I’m a wanderer with no home whatsoever – and I don’t see a problem with that – never actually ever visiting my home instance.
And that’s coming from the guy who rerolled from human to norn (had 1k+ hours and a legendary on human, re-rolled even before transmutation splitters were introduced(which allowed me to transfer sunrise))

Romek.4201:

would love to play Skritt – i would sooo reroll all classes again
A Skritt thief with daggers and sunglasses screaming “Shinyyyyy” is coolest thing ever

and i hope they never bring quaggan – this fat emos are uggly and overhyped

and for tengu and the birdies i dotn know why people want this – another oversized big race moving like a truck dont need this game. Just make all jumping puzzles with a big norn or Chaar and you will hate this idea^^

I’m fine with it.

Spider Boss is very well balanced if you do it without stacking.
All it takes is to make bosses actually use their AOE damage abilities if you stack… That alone would make stacking a bad idea on many bosses.

Farzo.8410:

Flame Dye.

74+ Gold on the TP.

I’ve always liked the more golden look, though!

What Dye is that on the armor?

That’s something that really needs to be adressed. Also is my reason for choosing signet over shelter on many occasions.
Oh, and they proc at the same time. That means that Protector’s Strike and Shield of Wrath proc at the same time with Aegis, and all 3 can proc all at once just as well.
Which creates a horrible waste of blocks, really.

Buran.3796:

Is not the best (aka: mos aggressive) loadout in a duel for a meditation fencer (that would probably involve scepter, focus, sword and torch, maybe mace instead of one of them) but is excellent in conquest due in n vs n lets you blind in AoE, hit in AoE and interrupt in AoE. Hammer can be a good replacement but lacks mobility and is more oriented towards a holder/decapper role. Sword is better in 1 vs 1 but there’s a ton of times in which you will be fighting in the center of the map against “#” foes and in those circumstances you will miss the GS (or a good hammer).

Yeah, that’s a very legit point. Greatsword is awesome for fighting multiple enemies – that’s what it was made for, after all.
It only makes sense for it to be a little weaker versus a single target, but not like I actually feel that difference in-game.

obal.3218:

The modifier of that food was broken. I don’t think they ever fixed it.

I’m well aware it was broken, just as I’m well aware it works now – I’ve even tried it myself, and seen exactly the 10% increase in damage.
Not sure whether it’s worth 200 power and 10% critical damage, though, for maximizing DPS that is. But it’s definitely better than 100 power and 10% critical damage(Except, that in PvE oftentimes you are required to stack in corner)

obal.3218:

http://youtu.be/jJBbH_Y4Xro

It seems to be the fastest of the classes besides ele conjures and it’s a Guardian

Pretty insane.
I think you’d do more damage with Seaweed Salad, +10% damage is bigger than 100 power and 10 % critical damage, isn’t | it?

Pfft, with all the animation cancelling it’s just a simple rant out there.
GS has good autoattack chain, 2nd skill is an extra bread for AOE damage, not too good, but yeah – pretty decent damage, 3rd skill is one and the only guardian dash?… long range fast dash that AOE blinds at the end?… 4th is a symbol that provides retaliation, once again somewhat decent – and 5th skill is a pull spell that has a multitude of usages…It’s perhaps the best way to kill an enemy in Skyhammer map in PvP. You can also almost insta-down an enemy when using BB in combination with JI(it’s possible for an enemy to get hit multiple times(up to 5) with BB).
So… overall a very decent and balanced weapon?… Unlike Warrior’s that requires you to stay in 1 place to channel HB and offers no CC whatsoever…
And sword/torch? You’ve just said GS was easy to avoid? sword autoattack chain and 2nd spell are inferior versions of GS dash/autoattack chain respectively, 3rd spell requires you to stand in 1 spot and shoot most obvious projectiles in game…
And torch? Cleansing Flame is a worst spell in the game. It hits ONLY 3 Targets, doesn’t remove conditions from yourself, channels over 5 seconds to do peanuts damage(3.3 damage coefficient over 5 seconds), and is the most telegraphed spell in the entire game.
Zealot’s Fire is pretty good, though. However it has 22.5 second’s cooldown and projectile is VERY slow.
I would really recommend to go with a Focus in your off-hand if you want a one-handed setup. But saying that sword/torch is better than GS is being ridiculous.

To the OP:
I would assure you celestial is better than knights, but for your build mixing it could be a decent idea.
To the Neverminder:
0.04 means 40 HP per 1000 healing power. Monk’s Focus has 0.4, that means 400 per 1000. Actually, Shelter would get extra 750 healing(Signet – 1250), VoR – 60 per second, ~75 traited, 750 on activation. Regeneration – 125 per second. 1000 heal on dodge(up to once every 5 seconds with vigor), 400 on aegis dissolve from Honor’s line. And that’s not the end of it, either – there are many more healing skills that a Guardian can get.
Add up the numbers, and it easily beats the vitality(10 HP per 1) for Guardian. That’s for Guardian himself, and the rest of people around.. You should get the point by now.
Keep in mind that Guardian by design has lots of healing and therefore is supposed to benefit more from healing power than other classes do. It only makes sense to get some, if it’s so useful.
For Guardian, you want Vitality ONLY to survive burst damage(I would not recommend to get more than 18-20 K HP). Toughness and Healing Power are the way to go if you want defense.

Painbow.6059:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUQQNAR8dlUgiCXGyLEf4ESODRCBtZAQHUli45eA-j0BBYfCykfBiKAOzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqWKgIGWB-w this is the best guardian build outside fractals, if you struggle to play full zerker in pve as a guardian i really don’t know what to say…

Just to note this is dungeons, not world bosses

Drop your guard even for a second, and you’re downed. That’s how low your hit points are, some bosses will kill you even when they strike through aegis(multiple hits instantly); getting downed, though, makes you and your party lose DPS, and it’s also inferior to soldier’s/cleric’s gear on world bosses(as you can’t crit them)…
It’s fine if you can survive in PvE. It’s not fine in WvW. So it’s pretty kitten situational, Just as your comment slicky notes “not for world bosses, not for fractals, not for WvW”
what the heck is that even for then? Just for dungeons?

Duiz.6042:

Too long to quote, and full of Ur’s.

That’s some crazy mesh-up and you’ll get rolled like yankies by a soloer wearing full greens.
One does not simply use Stand Your ground, SoJ, Strength In numbers, AH, Superior Aria and Pure of Voice for soloing, just like one shall not get Retributive Armor(oh look, that trait gives me 5% critical chance – so worth it! …not)
Meanwhile build offered by a poster above me which you are critising definitely deserves critique. I mean, full berserker? But it’s still tons better than one offered by you.

Saturn.6591:

Evalia.7103:

30 points in Valor is usually a bad idea for PvE/WvW, even more
so because you use such horrible traits as Purity, Altruistic Healing and Retributive Armor.

Huh? Please explain. As far as I know, the Guardian-meta for zergs has 30 points in Valor and uses AH, and the meta for roaming has 30 points in Valor and uses Monk’s Focus. Now since you’re saying that’s horrible… I’d really like to see your reasoning behind this statement.

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, but I think it’s quite obvious to see why Purity(completely unreliable way to remove conditions) and Retributive Armor(Impractical to get such amounts of toughness, and even if you get 2k it’s still just 140 precision) are horrible… Altruistic Healing might not be in that bad of a spot, but it’s still pretty weak in my opinion.
It’s fine I guess if you swap out Purity and Retributive Armor for defender’s flame(burn on block, can be pretty huge) and strength in numbers(150-750 toughness).
And as I’ve checked your build example you have 3.2k armor with 15k HP and 300 healing power, completely unforgivable waste of defensive stats – getting 2.7k armor and 20k HP would tremendously boost your survivability, so to say.

Utilities are something to be changed, I’ll disagree with the guys above because I think Healing Signet is superior to Shelter in PvE and vice versa in WvW, but whatevs.
30 points in Valor is usually a bad idea for PvE/WvW, even more
so because you use such horrible traits as Purity, Altruistic Healing and Retributive Armor.
You need more power, less precision and critical damage(Or actually more of everything because… well.. inferior gear?) to balance your damage output. As a temporary band-aid, replace magi pieces with Soldier’s(karma ez) to get better damage and around same survivability.
And don’t ever dare to get Knight’s gear on guardian as a guy above suggests. Despite the prefix, stacking toughness on a low health guardian is not the best idea – it’s usually better to get vitality and healing power. 1-3 pieces are fine, though, I guess.

That could be a good way, but it should be implemented in a way that makes Gear’s have different amount of Armor on them(keep in mind that 1 armor equals to 1 toughness) to avoid all the negative number insanity.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Evalia.7103:

Sigh… Start with celestial and round it up with other pieces.
Don’t try to combine all the freaking stats in-game on gear and then say it’s better than Celestial. It’s not, because celestial simply offers more than what your mesh-up of zealot/knight/magi can offer.

But will this hold true for long? Judging by the ferocity nerf, that statement may very quickly become false.

I’m more than willing to take a custom set that has higher toughness, healing power, and power than a set that brings in higher precision, (borderline useless) condition damage, vitality, and (soon to be nerfed) critical damage.

I really hope celestial gear would be somehow compensated, such as getting other stats increased. If you read in-depth, it actually is meant as a nerf to the damage output – there is no intention to nerf celestial gear outright. However, we just might see another amazing “Sigil of Momentum” trick, I’m referring to 125 toughness compared to 250 of all other stats.
I’ve been playing around and experimenting with the build – celestial actually provides more optimal damage and survivability than your choice if you get extra power from sigils(bloodlust, might on swap maybe) and nourishment. In other words, I’m not arguing that toughness, power and healing power are more desirable – but take into account that vitality makes toughness better and vice versa, and this means that after some point, you’ll want all of stats in some proportion. And that’s the reason to start building off Celestial gear, and it will actually hold true even if they do the harshest nerf we can expect(somewhat unlikely in my opinion).
Also, I’m using bowl of seaweed salad right now as my choice of food, as it provides a very decent damage boost if you move(10% damage can be equalized to adding 10% to your power, say you have 2.5k power = 250 power! That’s better than other foods, and as a Guardian you should be always moving, since you don’t really have skills that root you in place except for select few. Not to mention it allows me to choose different runes since I have a much better swiftness uptime(My runes of choice are Lyssa’s)
EDIT: I’ve stumbled upon a useful bit of information about Celestial gear:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Celestial-Ferocity-nerf/page/5
It seems that I was indeed correct.

Blasino.3128:

If you are going meditations I would concentrate on DPS and your own survivability.

If you want to support then move to shouts, trait PoV, Absolute Resolution, and Consecrations and use Purging Flames.

I think your build is trying to do too many things and doesn’t have a good focus.

Exactly, the build isn’t specialized.
Personally, I don’t see anything too horrible with that, but Celestial gear is made for the purpose of such builds(compensating lack of specialisation with superior amount of stats). Using neither celestial neither specialising results in being inferior, what the OP and Tongku currently do.

I think being a full healer is not exactly a good idea for guild wars 2.
But anyway, don’t use giver’s jewellery and soldier’s armor, you better run cleric if you want to be a support…
Oh, and replace worst sigil in the game with Sigil of Life maybe? I mean you think 125 toughness is better than 250 healing power?

Sigh… Start with celestial and round it up with other pieces.
Don’t try to combine all the freaking stats in-game on gear and then say it’s better than Celestial. It’s not, because celestial simply offers more than what your mesh-up of zealot/knight/magi can offer.

Guardian and Warrior – 2 Handed Battleaxe
Ranger – Rifle

Here is mine Zealous Norn! I actually wasn’t going that much for a noble look, and I’m still playing around with dyes.
The 3rd screenshot is what I’ve had until 5 days ago, when I decided to change the look a bit

That build has a lot of problems in it, and the first problem to mention would be runes.
It should come as no surprise that Rune of Fighter is bad – last bonus only grants 1, single, stack of might for 20 seconds. That’s 35 power and 35 condition damage, can be removed, and is not even permanent. Just about any other rune would be far more stronger – I would bring Lyssa Runes as an example, the ones I’m using myself for that purpose. Power and Precision are basically equal contenders, at least that’s how it should be in a good build, so Fighter gives extra 50 toughness and a might stack, meanwhile Lyssa gives 10% condition duration, extra boon on heal for 10 seconds(worse than (6) on fighter if you get might – better than (6) on fighter if you get anything else), and that’s already about even now. Needless to say, last bonus on Lyssa cures all conditions and gives all boons on elite usage… It’s a shame how a SINGLE might stack on Heal is compared to that in usefulness.
Get Ascended Gear, seriously, that doesn’t come as a major point but yeah.
You have too much critical damage and too little precision. Getting more precision(and power) and less critical damage would be more beneficial to your damage output.
Given how you try to utilize all stats but condition damage, consider getting some Celestial gear and then adjusting stats with non-celestial pieces to get better stats overall.
Extra points in Valor(all the way down to 30) aren’t worth it, and Altruistic Healing is horrible given how your build provides a very limited amount of boons(from a Guardian point of view). Compare that to usefulness of (5) in Radiance and (5) in Virtues… It’s not even funny.
You lack condition removal severely. You can pick them one by one, but without Absolute Resolution and Contemplation of Purity(Or, Lyssa Runes), condition’s are going to kill you if you play against a condition-based player.
It seems to me you’re the one who gets 1v2’ed and 1v3’ed, at least that’s what I would do on my Guardian. Then again, most playerbase in WvW is horribly bad, so…

Excuse me?
The OP wants a greatsword.
Well, warrior and guardian are both required in PvE content. Both are extremely desired. Warriors may do more damage, but without guardian downed warriors aren’t doing much.
If we are talking about WvW, it really depends. Warrior is probably weaker 1v1(with Greatsword that is), but is generally more mobile and hence is a very good choice for roaming(Guardian is probably stronger in actual combat, but he won’t be able to escape in most cases -.-). In zerg, Guardian should be more beneficial. For soloing camps/bosses/whatever, it’s actually quite easy with both warrior and guardian.
sPvP both classes are awesome… BUUUUT Greatsword Warrior is kind of funny versus skilled opponents, while Greatsword Guardian is actually pretty freaking good.
Oh, and I have both Warrior and a Guardian.

That’s how it works in this game.
The thing is, Reflected projectiles absolutely cannot be reflected again.
Basically, he reflects ‘em back at you, and they hit because you cannot reflect them – they were already reflected once.
On the other hand, projectiles from his dagger storm that will be reflected off you won’t be reflected by his dagger storm back again, either.

I’m using it over other healing spells in PvP.
But, I also happen to use Lyssa Runes(Synergizes with low CD heals), and 3 medi traits from Honor(0-5-30-10-25 is what I’m usually running in PvP). And even then it’s only barely worth it, seems to me…

I’m a Guardior with a slight touch of Mesmer :P

ahem
Just your personal views up there.
For me, if i’m in combat, i’m mobile enough with meditations/leap/teleports to not let my target get away.
So I would more than gladly sacrifice some O-O-C mobility for actual strength in a fight. Then again, if you run with a WvW zerg(or simply run Retreat!), the problem solves itself.
As for that, I don’t like runes of traveler. They make swiftness look near useless, meanwhile giving boon duration so it lasts… for longer… you get my point, right?
I’d rather get something that rocks the actual combat, and such would be Lyssa, Soldier’s, and some other honorable mentions(+45% boon duration from runes maybe?)
And I feel like a boss10 feet tall norn when it comes to fighting other players. So egocentric, that being
1 versus 2 doesn’t even sound unfair.

Hyperionkhv.1978:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ogre_Bag

Learn to read.
Meanwhile the idea is actually sweet, I like it, similar to how we have combined wallet now.

that 1.1k power with abundant precision and critical damage is really, really scary.
It’s like throwing stats down the toilet, but the same applies to vitality and healing power, since you make the least effort to get toughness and make it count.
in other words, you get 0×100500×100500 damage and 0×100500×100500 survivability, since you do not get synergistic stats. Sounds pretty horrible to me.

Healing Power is generally better than Vitality on Guardian, in some specs it’s even better if you are alone by yourself.
But that’s not a reason to get no vitality at all and be stuck with 13-15 k HP – it’s obvious that you still need some vitality then to survive the “impact”.
Well, that means full Sentinel’s is a bad idea. But so is full Cleric’s?

To do so, you have to transmute it with a white or blue backpiece(anything above that doesn’t work)(a good example would be black lion company quaggan skin) to make it account bound(on a character who has the backpiece). Needless to say, keep skin and throw away stats. Now that catcher skin is account bound, and you can transfer it to your alternative character. If you want to regain stats, of course you’ll either have to transmute it with another item(with stats), or use a Transmutation Splitter to get both blue/white and your wind catcher with stats back(on a different character).

morrolan.9608:

juno.1840:

Assuming this is true would you expect a generalized set like Celestial to do more than a full soldier set (which has power as the primary stat)?

Yes because celestial has less defensive stats.

newsflash, it doesn’t. You get quite literally 10 points of stats less on a chestpiece, 2 points on gloves, etc. But if you value healing power somewhat more, at least what I do on my Guardian, guess what.
As for the damage, i’ve just run the calculator test and celestial wins soldier by quite a decent margin once i’ve made proper considerations that would happen in real combat.

If you wanted berserker’s now, you’ll want them after the patch. It’s pretty simple, really.

Brutaly.6257:

Evalia.7103:

Power is better the more precision&critical damage you have. Precision is better the more power&critical damage you have. Critical damage is better the more Power&Precision you get.

Points for point power is worth more than precision. If i remember correct 1 point of precision is worth about 0,91 points power given everything else equal. And budget wise its the same with the relation between precision and crit damage. Knights>Cavalier.

There is no discussion regarding how stats syneriges, the discussion is about what stat contribute the most, point for point which is the important part since you have a limited number of points to distribute in your build and the question is how to max the dps and maintaining survivbility, ie effective healthpool. Power>Precision>Crit damage and it will be even more evident after todays patch when ferocity is launched.

Or do you disagree with power>precision>crit damage?

And the number of stacks from crit change very little if you just reach to about 40% crit chance, the number of stacks are more prone to be increased with boon duration.

It can also be calculated and have been so in these forum and its a degressive relation after reaching a certain threshold. So as long everything else is equal between two builds (and in this example crit chance) the variable can be excluded from the discussion.

Please read again.
You didn’t get anything at all, now did you.
The difference between precision and power DPS gain is minimal. But precision provides you with more might stacks, vigor procs, and lifesteal procs(if you run lifesteal food).
Do you get the point now?

Brutaly.6257:

Aether the Nob.9172:

Actually, I was showing Brutally that celestial trinkets can compare with, and possibly out-do other trinkets in some cases. I was NOT looking to fight about my build, and,if anything, was looking for advice as to what gear celestial should be replaced with. Sounds like a discussion to me.

The builds you posted arent comparable since they have both different levels of healing power and also base damage.

Trinkets cant match the other stat combos, period. Any build with celestial trinkets can be made better. There is only one exception here and that is if you have strict thresholds that needs to reached but that is more of a psychological thing and have very little with performance to do. For instance when i run 0/5/30/30/5/ i just cant get out of my head that i have to dodge roll for at least 1k.

I havent said that celestial trinkets are much worse, they are only marginal worse but OP insists on stating the superiority of the build and gear. And since people read this they might get the impression that he is on to something and waste time and gold and get trinkets that wont be optimized.

If you want celestials i would go for the armor.

@OP
The site is very viable. Both the calculations for effective power (damage) and effective health (mitigated damage) are correct and for every thing you miss you can adjust that manually.

What i do agree on (if that is what you ment in your post) is that celestial gear benefits relatively more from guard kills and stacking sigils as long as we are talking about power.

Sidenote you can use that site to add in condition damage, we know that VoJ proccs every 5th hit and 400 condition damage adds 100 more damage to that procc. Its roughly 2% in overall dps or the equivalent of 30 power or 33 precision in a full celestial build. do a couple of damage rotations on the dummies in LA and scribble the numbers down and manually calculate the effect of crit damage and crit. Note how many burn proccs you got and voila you have all the numbers you need.

It’s much more than that as I’ve explained with BB(+0.2 condi scaling, compared to burning +0.25) and almost constant burning uptime with condition duration(imagine, you can also activate it, and then use Renewed Focus!). Well, I’d probably estimate around 25 power worth for every 100 condition points. Although the amount will change depending on many factors.
If you want celestials i would go for the armor.
Most certainly a given, and not just armor, weapon too, whereas accessories are debatable(and especially backpiece). Debatable does not mean they are worse. They are still providing a lot more stats than other trinkets would. As you’re saying these WvW/Sigil bonuses are only making it better, and that’s another reason for that.
Also, equal to 30 power or 33 precision?
And in what build did you calculate that power is better than precision?
It’s 100% true that Effective damage grows with power more so than with precision – at least in mine own build.
But what about might on crit(and other effects?) I’m 100% sure you haven’t included that in. 10% critical chance will increase the might stacks by 1.3(.3 from sigil and 1 from trait, but it might as well be not quite as noticeable), but that’s if the sigil/trait wouldn’t have a cooldown. Otherwise it’s pretty hard to say.

This calculator you linked has lots of minor bugs, it does not even know that celestial backpiece exists for example.
I’ve fiddled around with it, but calculations were really screwed hard due to the fact that I couldn’t include stacked WvW bonuses and sigil(something that without a doubt takes place in WvW, and something that WITHOUT A DOUBT provides further specialization which, in my opinion, is sufficient enough.). Not to mention effective stats never cared to include healing and condition damage, which is kind of ridiculous, making it look like healing power is worth nothing while in fact it’s worth more point for point than vitality.
Very obvious that anything that includes healing power and condition damage will pale in comparison. Because this monster of a calculator doesn’t include them in it’s “effective damage” “effective survivability” calculations.
And the moment you start combing up clerics, berserker, valkyrie and soldier’s on your trinkets, you’ve just lost flat out to celestial, admitting that you still want 6 stats even when you already have full celestial armor set packed up.

Brutaly.6257:

Evalia.7103:

Meanwhile, celestial gear pulls quite a train ahead(slightly higher amount of stats when you consider 5 out of 7 useful, that’s ~40% more stats than any other gear set).

The problem with your reasoning is that you look at raw stats. And celestials has more raw stats, the issue is that stats are worth different in ANY build. For instance power>precision>critical damage.

So celestials actually has less EFFECTIVE stats in general with the exception of 2-4 pieces. Trinkets are crap budget wise so any build with them in it is by default a poor build.

Interesting how you count effective stats, really. It’s obvious even to a moa that power becomes better when you have a lot of precision and critical damage, but it doesn’t become quite as much better as celestial gear, which provides nearly 50%(!) more stat points.
Budget? Who cares about budget? It’s about what’s better, not about what costs less.

But nothing has been said about
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fiery_Rush
and the similar spells such as norn shapeshift rushes.
If anything breaks the damage output, it’s these spells that hit insane amount of times, from I saw Fiery Rush hits inbetween 50 to 70 times or so.

Bash.7291:

…. Did you really just try to say that because we have binding blade we have 2 conditions, and thus are overreacting when it comes to conditions we can apply? You do realize it does half of the base damage compared to burning, is a HUGE part of our very limited CC (which also REMOVES the DoT when used), is VERY easy to evade, and has a long cool down even with 2h mastery. Just saying that alone really makes me question if you understand guardian mechanics at all, let alone stats for them.

Condition damage doesn’t seem to increase base damage in any way, so it’s 0.2 compared to 0.25 scaling, which is very close, just 20% less than burning.
Considering that, and condition damage doesn’t seem worth nothing anymore. It’s not uber 20 stacks of bleeding, but
Binding Blade cannot be removed by condition removal.
That alone is a huge advantage. Of course I’m timing it correctly – it should be used just after enemy used up his dodgebar, or when he’s stunned or something. Why you’d begin to use an ability like that, for nothing or what?
Of course it’s a drawback that it’s removed when you pull them. But Guardian doesn’t just have the single condition, stating that is simply untrue.
Meanwhile, celestial gear pulls quite a train ahead(slightly higher amount of stats when you consider 5 out of 7 useful, that’s ~40% more stats than any other gear set). Sure, it lacks in specialization. Surely that’s a reason to get celestial gear and specialize in places where you cannot just get a little bit of everything?
Anyway, we are up for some big changes rocking the gear in gw2, so not much can be said with certainity.

I think it’s a change in good direction.
Why?
Because celestial stats should be distributed somewhat evenly, not a little bit of everything and a huge batch of critical damage.
Granted, other stats should be increased slightly, just enough to compensate for this nerf which is actually orientied at berserker’s/assassin’s gear.

Painbow.6059:

Definitely not viable for pve, the loss in power is just too great

and just to add in high end pve you don’t even want a tank you want a full dps team bringing support through reflect/aegis/blinds ect

It’s possible to solo Arah nude. I don’t care, really. Dungeons are there to get gear and money’s, not the other way around. Also, updated the thread title, hopefully word PvE won’t appear once again.

Its better to be a specialist then a generalist. Soldiers and Clerics, of the two I run clerics more its about team play. There is no place for the lone cowboy approach in Tier 1 if you want to do it right. The team that has the best synergy will always have the advantage.

Edit: After thinking about it, the only piece of gear I would get with these stats is my back piece, only then because an ascended back item tends to be a little bit more of a kitten to get then others to get.

Actually, the Celestial backpiece is the worst piece of Celestial Gear and should be the first one to be swapped out if you want to specialize(that should change with the patch, though).
If everybody only ran healing power, you’d never be able to kill anyone. Being a Support is not the only way you can work with other players, now imagine that. Damage saves lives too.

I main Elementalist and I never recommend anyone to run full celestial armor and Ele’s can use all of those stats much better then a Guardian.

Care to elaborate the difference? I mean, If you are using Staff, forget the condition damage. Guardian benefits more from it then, lol. If D/D, then yeah, healing is about the same, actually even a bit stronger on guardian I think. And I don’t really get the whole idea of condition damage being horrible on guardian – Binding Blade acts as a second condition, so you essentially have 2 of them, which isn’t that horrible as people make it seem.
And so I think the difference is minimal right there and therefore you can make decent use of ALL stats on guardian, granted condition damage is somewhat lacking… But if you’re counting 5 stats out of 7 it’s already in celestial favor, so…