Whahahaha please tell me what makes your statement true.
what a troll…
Ranger LB: its a power weapon with no combo fields, easy to dodge and interrupt, we all know power ranger is not as good as a condi ranger in roaming, the only time I lost against a LB ranger was with my lvl 6 engineer.
Warrior LB: it can work on condi build and a power build, it has combo field + blast + projectiles + immobilize + aoe dmg, warrior is already more tankier and has more hp than ranger, it can cure conditions such as cripple faster and theres more sinergy on traits ( precision and condi damage on the same trait is good for LB ), it has also a better burst.
Do you really think LB ranger is better than LB warrior in roaming ? why ?
I like my LB Warrior better than my LB Ranger. Come to think of it though if the Warrior could have the Ranger LB that might be the best of both worlds.
Warrior LB does do crazy damage though both 1v1 and vs multiple enemies.
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It has loads of conditions, almost 100% fury and swiftness up time in combat if your swapping correctly (as soon as you’re off cooldown). With the 60-70% crit chance and 90% crit damage you’ll be seeing mostly 800-900 damage auto attack. Each crit grants your pet might and plants a bleed.
Try Torch 5(fire field), swap, Wh-5 (blast), wh-4 (17 hits), axe 2 (5 hits), Sic Em, Axe 3(chill). For nice pet burst damage. Also try with RaO.
I bet that build does very nice damage. Lack of speed as a WvW roamer always concerns me though.
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guard is every 12 seconds, which gives a like 15 second regen……and cleanses a condition, and gives swiftness, if it was the only shout, ud still be good
Guard cleanses a condition?
No, but with his runes he can
Nice job. Never seen a Ranger use those runes before. Totally missed it
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that is straight up glass.
using all utilities for his burst, no condi removal, no healing in stealth, no Blinds, no stun breakers, no stability
he will most likely die if someone tickled him for 2 seconds.
Burst compared to hp is straight up asinine.
No one who actually cares for a healthy and balanced pvp experience cares about what you have to sacrifice to obtain such high burst numbers. They care about getting rid of ridiculous game mechanics like these for long term retention and increased player participation.
If I were a game developer, I’d be embarrassed to let poor mechanics like these remain as long as they have.
So would I.
I have played many of these type of games. They all try and improve things as they go forward. When something is really broken, they usually try and put the repair on the front burner. I have never seen a developer ignore something so outlandish, broken and flawed as this.
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guard is every 12 seconds, which gives a like 15 second regen……and cleanses a condition, and gives swiftness, if it was the only shout, ud still be good
Guard cleanses a condition?
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Well I do blame the elitist, because it is a lousy way to treat people. Even when a class is ‘perceived’ to be better (because that can change in an instant when someone figures out a new killer spec), and that perception says class A does 1.3% more damage than class B…therefore class B is garbage and won’t get included.
…and honestly, I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to say
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thieves are so OP yet no wvw guild wants thieves and everyone and their mother plays warrior…mkayyyyyy
Non argument that has nothing to do with the topic. There are other classes that are in the same position in regards to WvW groups. Might as well say ….thieves are so OP yet it is raining today.
The facts are that some forward thinking people are using Thieves in their GvG groups and especially havoc groups. What a nightmare to fight a tight group with a Thief included.
yes, there are some havoc groups that would take thieves but they would take about any class really
where actual wvw guilds, zerg guild, zerg busting guilds would rather have you run warrior, guard, necro, mesmer and ele
i see guild groups running hammer trains, i yet have to see thief train
Those groups take Thieves for specific reasons, so no, any other class wouldn’t do.
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thieves are so OP yet no wvw guild wants thieves and everyone and their mother plays warrior…mkayyyyyy
Non argument that has nothing to do with the topic. There are other classes that are in the same position in regards to WvW groups. Might as well say ….thieves are so OP yet it is raining today.
The facts are that some forward thinking people are using Thieves in their GvG groups and especially havoc groups. What a nightmare to fight a tight group with a Thief included.
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This happens in every MMO in existence pretty much. The “elites”, re kitten wipes, take the top 3-4 classes that they believe are optimal for the most, and quickest success.
Say for instance that Warriors were the 4th best class for clearing dungeons. The elites are completely happy with Warriors and invite them to their groups all the time.
Then Anet decides to buff Rangers. They go a bit overboard and now Rangers are stronger than Warrior. Guess what happens now? Warriors are booted from groups and Rangers are added. Even though Warriors have proven they are more than capable of contributing in speed runs etc, now that Rangers are stronger, Warriors are relegated to 2nd class citizen.
That’s how the snobby elites operate. Nothing can be done about it.
tldr : There will only ever be the 3-4 favored classes for speed runs in dungeons. Those classes aren’t set in stone. They will change after each patch
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Stealth is annoying and hard to deal with. Only people set on destroying every other class go on about how hard it is to play a thief and that using stealth isn’t that helpful.
Too many people with personal motives. Ignore those people.
I couldn’t agree more
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I dont think stealth in this game is overpowered. I play both thief and other professions without stealth. As a non-thief I have defeated many thieves in WvW while sometimes I get defeated. And its the same while playing my thief in WvW. So at the end it looks quite balanced to me.
The main problem is that its quite annoying to play against thieves in GW2. Although you have good chances to win / stay alive against most thieves it’s freaking annoying due to the high amount of in combat stealth. The same is true to PU mesmers imo.
But I wouldnt say that other games stealth mechanics are much better. Unlimited out of combat stealth is also extremely annoying because you never see them coming. At least in GW2 you see thieves coming (most of the time).
Bingo. We have a winner. Overpowered, under powered or perfectly balanced. Those are entirely different issues and can be debated to death. One thing that is a fact is thieves ARE annoying to fight. Win or lose. It simply isn’t a fun game mechanic.
Take any facet of the game. If something isn’t fun and is kittening off the player base it is usually fixed. No company wants to lose it’s players over an annoying game play. Well, most don’t. Anet doesn’t seem to mind.
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They definitely need to make it more important to defend. As it is now you just don’t care. You just come back in a few minutes with your zerg and melt the keep/tower… Zergs should be severely slowed down and towers, keeps, camps, sentries should scale WAY more than they do now. It should require some serious skill and tactic from the zerg to cap a fully upgraded camp, tower, keep etc that’s guarded by some players…
agree 100%
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You are being obtuse and hanging your hat on semantics.
ob·tuse [uhb-toos, -tyoos] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.
2.
not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.
3.
(of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.
4.
indistinctly felt or perceived, as pain or sound.
I find you post offensive and have reported it. If you care for open discussion I invite you to do so and restate your opinion in a more respectful manner. Thank you.
lol are you trying to be funny? Your earlier posts to Sanduskel (sp), were both offensive and a personal attack.
Maybe look up the term passive aggressive.
Thank you
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Yes, you could stealth endlessly. There was a hard counter though. If it got too bad then a group of people would bring along another stealther with the see all stealthers ability. He would pop every stealther there like wack a mole = easy RPs.
Yes, you could buy vanish that early. I don’t know of any that would though because there were far more useful things to buy. Also, it was on a long reuse timer (10 min?), and you couldn’t attack anything for a minute. You were defenseless if they found you because you couldn’t fight back. (what a concept…that you could be found even though you were stealthed)
That is nothing like GW2 restealthing….not even remotely similar. Kind of silly to compare it.
…and I will repeat what many say over and over. They don’t mind stealth. What they mind is the restealthing again and again during a fight, combined with no movement penalty when stealthed. = ridicoulous.
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… we should not be able to pop back into stealth once in combat. No other game allows this…..for good reasons.
While ‘other game’ arguments have no value anyway, you are, as usual, quite mistaken on the ‘facts’. Other games do allow (re-) entering stealth from combat – and have for quite some time. Not that you’d care though.
Im sorry you had to resort to personal attacks, but no, most other games, and all decent pvp games dont allow restealthing while in combat unless there are easy hard counters to permastealth. So you are misinformed.
Interesting that you’d find personal attacks in there, that sounds almost as if any statement that opposes your opinion would be seen as a personal attack.
You were, and are, wrong, in many ways. First, other games are just that, other games. They balance their classes differently, rogues/assassins may have less stealth, but more defensive abilities, or passive evasion while in stealth, or perhaps they have even more access to stealth and defensive abilities, but do less damage. They might even not exist and lack or have any abilities, or penalties you care to bring into, or leave out of the discussion, how is anyone going to show otherwise? And if they do, you just wiggle like a politician and add some vague qualification like ‘decent’ in there somewhere.
You weren’t just wrong in bringing other games into the discussion, you were also wrong about the other games, you were wrong about permastealth in other games, you were wrong about entering stealth during combat, you are wrong about (hard) counters to stealth in GW.
So, yeah, you were wrong. Again.
And why, if you think GW has such a sub-par PvP, are you still here?
Most (notice how I typed most and not all?) mainstream games apply stealth differently than GW2. The stealth allows you to get the first hit in. You get to initiate the fight. After the initial hit, you are just like the enemy you are fighting ….visible. Usually a winner is decided. Daoc did have a ‘Vanish’ skill that was very expensive. Higher ranks were usually the only ones to purchase it.
You couldn’t stealth and restealth multiple times in a fight.
Your movement while stealthed was snail paced. Which kinda makes sense.
A hard counter is when someone can actually see you while stealthed. GW2 doesn’t have that.
Most(there is that word again) mainstream games apply stealth as listed above.
GW2’s version of stealth is laughable and nonsensical. I get that it is likely non fixable. I also get that people that play a Thief don’t want things fixed. Most have their myopic view and only want what’s best for them, not the game. They want to wtfpwn people and when they feel their class might get the nerf bat they fight like hell to make sure it doesn’t happen.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Actually Sanduskel, there are quite a few that allow restealthing in combat. However it’s usually 2 skills, each on very hefty cooldowns (30 seconds or more) that last for maybe 3-4 seconds.
Those games also have hard counters to stealth, and if you attack from stealth you are reveals for a much longer period.
You haven’t played DAoC, where stealth that you couldn’t pop back into was the real problem. A player could be around indefinitely without breaking stealth until they came into combat, in which case hundreds of people would stay in a choke point, in stealth, just farming players trying to pass through. If you think thieves are bad in WvW, go try out DAoC and tell me where your god is.
Lol I played Daoc for 6 years, chum. Stealth could only be entered during combat on a very long cooldown skill and stealth had hard counters. I could see stealthers with my MOS. stealthers were much more difficult to play in that game. I played several of them.
Agree that Daoc’s version of stealth is vastly superior to Anets laughable version.
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You guys are kind of missing the point I was trying to make. Usually Rangers are the first class I go after when I play something else since most are glass. Obviously this guy wasn’t glass and caught me by surprise. If we dueled I’m sure I would win more than I lost but in a one off I think it would have come down to the wire.
The damage was really good. I wish the logs would show condi damage
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Hay I run hybrid spirit BM build in wvw I use sun spirit and spirit elite I take 2x bird with almost the same step but I have 0/0/30/20/20, it seems to work for me. If you check the channel in my sig you will see 2x wvw video build should be there. I use leeching with scav runes for my tanking gives me 2x free slots.
Hope it helps its not boss build but it’s decent
I don’t see any spirit Ranger videos on your channel.
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Nice to hear good music for a change in one of these videos !
Great video. You have good skills. A well player hammer Warrior is a real biotch to deal with. After watching these type of videos it always inspires me to try it myself. The problem is lack of skill on my part would make it a long frustrating day in WvW
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I have always supported stealth for Rangers. Very restricted though.
- It takes time to stealth. Say 10 seconds to complete the process. Can’t be in combat
- Can’t move when in stealth
- If you attack someone from stealth it breaks stealth.
Fits the whole ‘scouting’ thing without being an offensive skill.
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Actually I think we (YB) has seen SBI 5 weeks in a row now. To top if off SBI greatly outnumbers us and SOS maybe slightly outnumbers us as well. Gee what fun being outnumbered week after week. This is just laziness on Anet part. WvW is only reason a large portion of the players even log in and they don’t even care about it.
I’m sure Anet would love to hear your solution to solve the problem.
Hint: There is no solution. People hate unbalanced matchups worse than the same matchup.
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Personally I think this set up does great damage. I have been fooling around with it the last few days and most people melt. Especially since they have a timer in their head that they can hang around and deal damage to you and pull back after they do their rotation. I can’t count the number of times they die because they don’t bail in time.
I still need practice doing this for the main reason is I have been dabbling on the Warrior also. A condi build with LB+S/S. Obviously Warrior survivability is off the charts. So when I get on my Zerker Ranger I need to realize I need to be much more careful and pick my spots.
When you are sniping with the Ranger thieves are drawn to you like a magnet. Gotta keep your head on a swivel for sure since you go down very quickly.
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I will be surprise they nerf rifle, because it’s mainly single target range weapon, so it’s okay it’s bursty and kill shot can be dodge easily. What make this build strong is not the rifle itself, but the combo of Greatsword and Rifle.
Depend of your ennemy you could use your GS 75% and 25% Rifle and other fight like bomb engineer I will use rifle 80% of the fight.
The only thief I encounter and kill me 3 time in a row in dueling is a condition thief. He applied to many condition and was covering his bleed with crap condition.
You can’t compare Bow and Rifle, because they have different mechanic and purpose.
Here a video with my friend, a conditioner warrior Bow and me with Salvation build. A nice combo btw.
Nice videos. I have been using S/S+LB the past couple of weeks. This looks like a nice change up. You are a very good player.
I looked forward to watching your duo with a Lb+S/S warrior. It wasn’t much of a team work video Just looked like 2 random people on same server fighting near each other.
That said. WTB a Warrior partner for roaming on SoS !
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I actually stopped using the speed signet, was finding it a pain to stay on someone afterward, need Traveler Runes
I also swapped out one of the Signets for the Devourer Venom. Slightly less Might, but I’m doing 10k-11k backstabs and this of course without Power Stacks or Guard Killer.
But yea, a 2v1 wouldn’t work most likely, very squishy.
I also can’t kill classes like a Mesmer who knows i’m coming, or a Necro who’s not stupid.
Anything less then full on tank though, Its pretty much instant kill from 1500 range
Not exactly what you want for a game like this.
lol nice. Must be fun to play.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
If your going to go full damage, you need to go full damage. There are a lot of complaints against this class that their damage is weak; most of the time it’s because they aren’t traiting or gearing themselves properly. The thing with the Ranger is, they don’t seem to do well when you mix up their builds.. IE, a glass cannon thats not in full berserker and doesn’t have 30/30 seems to suffer a big damage penalty. You need to go kittens to the wall with this.
The thing is, they don’t really have the utility to escape or to keep up with another class (in small group or solo situation) if you mix their builds up. If you go with a solo/roamer build, your golden. This build won’t really help you using a LB and in bigger groups. If your going part berserker with a mix of knights/soldiers like some like to do, you’ll find you’ll get beat far more in those situations than you’ll win. Then zerg play, well with your LB you won’t be in the fray so to speak, so there is no need to gear yourself for survivability. Even if you did, you’ll die quickly much like every other class in the front lines if they have any heavy hitting ranged classes on their side. I’ve killed bunker rangers off easily in a full damage spec, because despite the toughness and regeneration, they can’t handle a massive burst.
Also, ignore that you have a pet. Choose whatever pets to take with you that will help you survive better. Once you learn to stay alive, you may be surprised just how strong they are.
That is exactly what I have been finding lately. Trying to create builds that are supposed to be damage, yet I always seem to add a little defense wiggle room into it and the damage really suffers.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Me thinks one of Anets employees was tasked with the job to come up with the titles. He decided to go home and let his 5 year old come up with the names. Problem solved.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Strangely Anet has decided to change history. Usually the people inside a fortification had the advantage over the attackers. Anets version of siege warfare gives the attackers the advantage.
Strange
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
The other day in WvW there was a warrior with longbow wrecking people and he was laying down stacks of torment.
He was kiting me and i could not chase him without my health going down fast and he kept reapplying torment so it was hard to keep it removed…
The guy was pretty kitten good but i was surprised at how much damage he was doing and how often he was stacking up torment, i guess he had high crit (?)
Are sigils and runes of torment that good? I would have liked to see his build and gear.
Anyone have comments/opinions to share regarding warrior using torment?
This is what I used to use. I’m not sure if it still works as well. I just browse the forums mostly. You can see if it’s what you might be looking for though.
Oh and to people thinking warrior condi damage is op, they are wrong. It’s just how stat allocation works in this game that creates the problem.
Consider in order to build traditional dps you need power, precision, crit damage. Now you can deal a ton of damage,but you have low survival. With condi builds you can build straight damage, while building toughness/vitality. If they changed stat allocation so that (example) crit damage was a portion of power, then things like power/precision/toughness or power/precision/vitality would allow traditional dps to do similar. That won’t really happen though. They tried to do this with allowing gems/runes/ascended gear.
No speed if you are a roamer. Gonna get run over
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Pick your poison; either have a close to a competitive match-up as you can get, or one where your get destroyed or one where your doing the destroying. Those are your only real options, which unfortunately if you want a competitive one, means your playing the same servers all the time.
Pretty much. Either way Anet goes there will be rapid complaining. There just aren’t enough servers.
Theres plenty of servers. In fact there are too many for the WvW population. If everyone would stack on a few servers then there wouldn’t be a population problem, but theres no way to know what the population is, nor a reasonable way to transfer. This is why T1 is the most competitive. They are full.
To clarify. Not enough servers with equal strength. The old system you could predict the correct top 3 finishers almost everytime.
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Torment is one of my best skills. The block on sword 5 is as well since its a long bleed.
With Koi cakes and 25 stacks of condi damage, torment will hit for about 15k over its full duration(17.5 seconds in my case) if not cleared.
Since im pure condi, I wear Dire. That ups my HP and Toughness without hurting condi damage at all. You can see the damage on Sword 4. Depending on what enemies are out there, I will change between Koi Cake(added condi damage and duration) and Potato and Leek soup(decrease condi duration)
Most damage is short range AOE since sword cleaves. This has been the best build I have found for 1vsX. Its not the signet alone, its mainly that most my damage is AoE if the enemy stays too close together.
Not one piece of Dire in your build
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i find this suggestions pointless unless you add suggestions to severly nerf other classes to make it fair
thieves are already considered bottom tier in pvp (yes few teams run 1 but nobody would consider to bring more, same goes for pve too btw), let’s beat the dead horse
This is ‘WvW’ Discussion. If you believe Thieves are weak in PvP then Anet should consider fixing it. It seems like a common refrain …but but we are weak in ‘fill in the blank’ . So what many are saying is yea, we are freaking overpowered in WvW roaming but it’s only fair because we are weak in other parts of the game.
i can do as good if not better roaming on my warrior, what is your point?
@Sanduskel: you don’t even play a thief
Good for you.
Since most of the posts in this thread are debating “More Counter Stealth Play” I’m not sure how you telling us you roam well on your Warrior applies.
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i find this suggestions pointless unless you add suggestions to severly nerf other classes to make it fair
thieves are already considered bottom tier in pvp (yes few teams run 1 but nobody would consider to bring more, same goes for pve too btw), let’s beat the dead horse
This is ‘WvW’ Discussion. If you believe Thieves are weak in PvP then Anet should consider fixing it. It seems like a common refrain …but but we are weak in ‘fill in the blank’ . So what many are saying is yea, we are freaking overpowered in WvW roaming but it’s only fair because we are weak in other parts of the game.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Pick your poison; either have a close to a competitive match-up as you can get, or one where your get destroyed or one where your doing the destroying. Those are your only real options, which unfortunately if you want a competitive one, means your playing the same servers all the time.
Pretty much. Either way Anet goes there will be rapid complaining. There just aren’t enough servers.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Fun video to watch. You play the class well. You are definitely hard to kill but you don’t kill others that much either. Must be frustrating to play against.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Some good ideas posted. I don’t think in general people are that opposed to stealth. What does drive them nuts is the amount of times a Thief can use stealth during a fight. What might be an idea is to make it either more costly or not last as long for each time you stealth or try to stealth. Diminishing returns. Just like some games have a 5 second root the first time. Then when you get rooted again it is only for 3 seconds etc etc
Then we need that for cc too as well since i find chain stunning just as annoying :P
Agree
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Some good ideas posted. I don’t think in general people are that opposed to stealth. What does drive them nuts is the amount of times a Thief can use stealth during a fight. What might be an idea is to make it either more costly or not last as long for each time you stealth or try to stealth. Diminishing returns. Just like some games have a 5 second root the first time. Then when you get rooted again it is only for 3 seconds etc etc
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
target management when fighting a stealth based classed is exceptionally annoying and quite frankly bad. They need to allow your target to stay locked on but hide it when they go stealthed.
That is a very good point. That is part of the frustration when fighting Thieves..win or lose. They also know how difficult it is and use it to their advantage.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
What’s funny is Scarlet has always made his builds known. Let’s be real, you’re being an elitist kitten, and that’s fine, but don’t act like 1 warrior, inspiring other warriors got the build nerfed. That’s just stupid and egotistical in a game that requires no real skill or tact. I could facebash my head against the keyboard everyday and roll 99% of the player base, and given that I’ve tried over 15 builds in the last 2 months whilst recording, it proves just that. Not to mention I have a physical handicap thanks to my military service and have little use in one hand, and still manage.
I know what the build is, perhaps I’ll share it for giggles.
QFT
Maybe Anet is going to monitor his account now so they can nerf it. Oh the humanity!
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
How many times have you been in WvW on any class that you have built for full defense. A Thief comes by and gives you a few shots. Realizes that you have high toughness/HPs so disengages by stealthing and looks for a softer target. He doesn’t have to pay for being glass like other classes do.
happens every time.
Also, Rangers are Second Best at everything, but are Number 1 at Nothing. We aren’t even number one at being a pet class. Necromancers make a better pet class than we do.
So they are number 1 at something.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
The cost for defense for most classes is at the expense of offense. If A ranger goes pure zerker he can do nice damage, but, when he gets hit, he gets hit hard. Damage mitigation is nil.
Thief? Can build full zerker or almost full zerker. Stealth allows him to pretty much give him 100% damage taken mitigation.
How many times have you been in WvW on any class that you have built for full defense. A Thief comes by and gives you a few shots. Realizes that you have high toughness/HPs so disengages by stealthing and looks for a softer target. He doesn’t have to pay for being glass like other classes do.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
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