Guild Wars 2

TheMerc.4850:

He didn’t have any real pressure and once conditions came out he went down fairly quickly with the poison countering his regens.

Ah I missed it, what was the timer when they downed him?

TheMerc.4850:

So there’s a terrible warrior and what seems to be a defensive specced guardian having problems with a warrior that looks to have specced to counter stuns with stability while running regen banners. I really have no idea what the warrior we were watching was trying to do with just the mace against a tankier build that fight.

As soon as the engineer came in with conditions it got fairly bad and had the engineer stuck in for a few more seconds it would have been over.

I’m not sure I see the issue when bunkers can’t kill other bunkers? You never see either of the 3’s hp go low until someone else joins the fight. If the warrior was really going to stick to mace with a non damaging build, he should have been following more damaging members and setting up kills with stuns rather than bunkering with another bunker in mid against one guy also set up to bunker.

Just bad gameplay there.

Keep watching.

Not saying it’s the pinnacle of gameplay, just how funny his face was when he has no clue what he’s talking about. Even with the bad game play you described, it was still a 3v1. So the point of “warrior’s can’t bunker” is a complete joke, or at least I hope it was.

Eir Stegalkin

no one else is even close

11 minutes 6 seconds, look at his face while he’s saying this. He can’t even keep a straight face about it. He’s supposed to talk about how warriors can’t bunker…but there is a warrior doing just that against 3 people.

4. make the arena bigger, or open it up, there’s plenty of space up their for those domes to extend in size.

For the love of god this. The fights aren’t even that hard. Having to see the inside of my own skull through most of it (if I’m lucky to not have the camera go nuts) is the kitten problem.

Why does the ceiling again have to be designed around human/asura character sizes. There is plenty of room. Does Anet really not have one single kitten charr/norn tester? The skill part should not be about “did I get lucky enough to see the fight”. That isn’t skill, that is bad game design. I’ve learned though this isn’t going to change. The aetherblade were a great example of this. The jumping puzzle I could do, but I could never see the goggles to do the jump because all I could see was the sky dome. Design content so that at least if I have to change my build repeatedly I don’t have to level a while new character to do it. I’m sick of being punished because I prefer norn/charr to the other races.

i get why people want challenging content that not everybody can do, it comes with prestige, but those people have to also understand their playing a MMORPG with a lot of emphasis on special items and looks.

Um no, those people are not the same as people that want a challenge. I’m one of those that likes a challenge, and I don’t care if I get an achievement or a mini. In fact they could easily remove all of that and I would still solo it. I solo champions, I solo group content, but not for an achievement or a mini. I do it to see if I can, and to get better. For people really wanting a challenge that is more than enough. The other people you are referring too are all about their ego. Please don’t compare the two, because they are not the same. It’s an insult to be put into the same group.

Gamadorn.2659:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Troop.1369:

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community managers said something about trying to punish zerging. Still waiting…

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community manager said something about trying to reduce skill lag. Still waiting…

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community manager said something about trying to correct and adjust the unrealistic World vs World achievements. Still waiting…

Some people at a.net should stop putting so much effort into something that will NEVER beat SC2, WoW, DOTA and LoL on the ESPORT scene. Of course i’m talking about spvp.

Some people at a.net should stop putting so much effort into “trying” to please the PvE crowd with living story every two weeks and focus on GUILD WARS

They should create a new mode, a real GvG mode (not that boring kitten on WvW maps).

Do you realize that WvW will NEVER pay the bills? They have to go with SPvP, or PvE, but that’s it. PvE brings in cash, and SPvP might have a chance at an esport (I don’t think GW2 is anywhere close to remotely being close to ready, but that’s a different discussion). WvW brings almost nothing to the sustainability of the game.

Ask yourself this, how many people do you know in WvW that have spent 50$ or up on the game post release? If you’re wvw friends are like mine your answer will be 1/2. While I’ve spent over 200$ on the game, and most of my friends that PvE put in 30$ or so a month towards the game. Maybe it’s just my experience, but PvE players seem to put their money into the game, while WvW players don’t. I’m fairly certain Anet has noticed this too, and while they aren’t entirely ignoring WvW they are going with their money makers.

This should be a good thing though. In the end it means that eventually they will get around to doing better stuff for wvw. They won’t if they can’t keep the doors open though, and they need to do two things for that: 1) FIX SPVP/TPVP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and 2)keep PvE players happy. Then when they have a chance they can fix WvW.

Btw for anyone here that thinks "oh this guy never wvws, doesn’t pvp, etc please look at my history. I’ve put so much into wvw. I’m just being honest here, and I think if more of you were honest about how important WvW is overall you would say the same.

I agree that right now WvW DOES NOT pay the bills…..so it’s the least in the priority list…

As was stated, it’s not so much that we don’t appreciate the new stuff (I do), but I would hope that the stuff they have added has no taken anything away from fixing the higher priority issues that are truly affecting or breaking game play…

I also think that WvW.. COULD pay the bills if done correctly and implemented correctly. There are all sorts of things you could add to the gem store for world vs world to get WvW players to spend money…and if they actually put some godkitten effort into WvW…more than likely those players would stick around longer and not wax and wane with every content update…

Hell yeah they could. They could actually make WvW more competitive. They could have a twitch channel for WvW, stuff like that. They just run a huge risk because if it doesn’t pay off Anet’s out a good bit of money.

The new matchup system is better than the old one. Seriously, how much longer did you want to fight AR/EB for?

Have you seen our weeks matchups? Instead of it being AR (better 1v1 pvp bar far on AR) vs EB exact opposite but huge freaking numbers. Now it’s HUGE NUMBERS vs HUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEEEE NNNNNNNNNNNUUUUU.. you get the point. The only thing that has changed

lordkrall.7241:

meep.2601:

yup. for one reason or another, they are determined to make WvW fail (they are succeeding)

Oh?
Based on personal experience and ArenaNets own words that is quite clearly not the case, since the population in WvW has actually increased since January.

On what server, it’s mostly fallen on everything except the top 5 or 6. The matchup system for wvw is crap. Plus the new solo queue looks pretty sweet.

dunnberry.2964:

The problem with the statement “once PVErs are happy/satisfied” is that since they are such spoiled babies nothing will ever be “enough” for them and we all know it, they get full updates every 2 weeks and big fixes in less than a day and still QQ harder than anyone else in the game

As long as they are paying the bills, they have that privalege. Maybe if WvW players put their money where their mouths are we wouldn’t have this problem. Sadly the characterization that most wvw players are cheap seems to be true. Sure a few spend money, but you should see how much PvE players put into the game. I’m mostly a pvp/wvw player and I’ve still put in enough to have all of my character slots, plenty of blk,kite,minis etc. So it can be done, but with that said you should see the stupid amounts of money PvE players put into the game.

As long as they are paying the bills let them continue to get updates every 2 weeks. I used to think the same way you guys are now. I wanted wvw, and pvp updates more often. Then I said “well if they do that, the pve players get angry and stop paying the bills for a few weeks”. It’s not worth it in the end, so I will be happy with what I get.

Won’t ever happen. You can already get an idea of it now. Just wait till prime time and look at the server list.

Troop.1369:

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community managers said something about trying to punish zerging. Still waiting…

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community manager said something about trying to reduce skill lag. Still waiting…

I remember a couple of months ago, one of your community manager said something about trying to correct and adjust the unrealistic World vs World achievements. Still waiting…

Some people at a.net should stop putting so much effort into something that will NEVER beat SC2, WoW, DOTA and LoL on the ESPORT scene. Of course i’m talking about spvp.

Some people at a.net should stop putting so much effort into “trying” to please the PvE crowd with living story every two weeks and focus on GUILD WARS

They should create a new mode, a real GvG mode (not that boring kitten on WvW maps).

Do you realize that WvW will NEVER pay the bills? They have to go with SPvP, or PvE, but that’s it. PvE brings in cash, and SPvP might have a chance at an esport (I don’t think GW2 is anywhere close to remotely being close to ready, but that’s a different discussion). WvW brings almost nothing to the sustainability of the game.

Ask yourself this, how many people do you know in WvW that have spent 50$ or up on the game post release? If you’re wvw friends are like mine your answer will be 1/2. While I’ve spent over 200$ on the game, and most of my friends that PvE put in 30$ or so a month towards the game. Maybe it’s just my experience, but PvE players seem to put their money into the game, while WvW players don’t. I’m fairly certain Anet has noticed this too, and while they aren’t entirely ignoring WvW they are going with their money makers.

This should be a good thing though. In the end it means that eventually they will get around to doing better stuff for wvw. They won’t if they can’t keep the doors open though, and they need to do two things for that: 1) FIX SPVP/TPVP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and 2)keep PvE players happy. Then when they have a chance they can fix WvW.

Btw for anyone here that thinks "oh this guy never wvws, doesn’t pvp, etc please look at my history. I’ve put so much into wvw. I’m just being honest here, and I think if more of you were honest about how important WvW is overall you would say the same.

Bhima.9518:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

madgod.7421:

I would love to see an ‘easier’ form of mobility for guardians (maybe a signet w/25% inc. speed like other classes get).

That said, Im fine not having it simply because of what we get in exchange — speed plus great gap closers. I run Retreat/SYG/SY with soldier runes. 2 out of those 3 give me swiftness, and every time I use them I cleanse conditions. If I need to bail – pop retreat, instant swiftness, plus aegis to cover my skritten on the way out the door.

Need to catch a mesmer on the run? Pop retreat/SY then blink/leap to him — whats more, with the right setup that blink/leap will not only stack burning, but also blind and vulnerability on him, not mention giving me a few stacks of might while instantly increasing my damage against him by a good 30%

We were design to stand, fight and if necessary, hunt down and finish what they start. We are strong, we are fast, we are Guardians!

What exactly are you guys planning on doing to that mesmer when you catch him? Give him a hard stare and hope he falls over laughing long enough for you to kill him?

To the OP the problems you are having isn’t mobility, it’s that guardian is the worst class for CC. We are a class that’s designed to get into a fight, and then hope like hell the other people in the fight don’t decide to run. If they do, well that’s it. If they stay you can win if you are more skilled, unless it’s some of the more broken specs out right now (no worries they are getting nerfed)

I know you probably don’t want to hear this, but what you are saying you want to play is a warrior. To give you an idea of the class they have better sustain than guardians, better cc, better escapes, but they don’t really bring as many group buffs as a guardian if they are speced that way.

Warriors have a higher HP pool… they do NOT have better healing sustain. Also, a guardian can actually run directly into a zerg and has access to 2 invulns (shelter and renewed focus) without gimping his dps. A warrior traited for healing shouts gets kitten pretty hard and its why most don’t run it, whereas a guardian can build viably to have every utility skill heal him/her. Not saying guardian is better, but seriously the grass is always greener.

Yes they do. I’ve posted the numbers in another thread, and I will psot them here again.

Actually I compared it against two of the guardians healing points. If you want I can compare adrenal health + signet passive with 3 from the guardian.

Shall we then assume 0 healing power for both, or is that not skewed enough for you? Maybe I should give the guardian 1000 healing power. That might help I suppose. So Guardian with 1000 healing power vs warrior with no healing power.

Passive regen from VoR with 1000 healing power 144 per second. AH with 1000 healing power is 79 per boon lets say 3 boons per second for 237, Signet of Resolve with 1000 hp heals for 9400/40 for 235 health per second. That brings the Guardian to 616 health per second.

Now a warrior with just healing signet and adrenal (I know you probably don’t want me to count that either, anything to skew the results though right) gives 392 and adrenal health gives 360 yes I’m going to assume full adrenaline. If you want me to rework it even more in your favor I will. 360/3 = 120. 120 + 392 = 512. Now we are ignoring that you have to have at least 150 healing power to even get it.

This means a guardian with 1000 healing power using their heal + getting passive from VoR + a constant 3 boons per second from AH heals for 104 more per second than a Warrior that is…doing nothing.

Now I know what you are thinking. You are thinking this still isn’t fair, I should have calculated this with the Guardian having 5000 healing power, and the warrior with 0 healing power and poisoned. Maybe next time.

In the mean time check my math, I haven’t slept in 3 days so It’s possible I’m off on something.

As far as I’m aware my math is correct, though I would like for someone to double check them.

Remove all of the opinions ,and then have a look at what your post looks like with just the numbers. That’s what we are all interested in anyway.

Warrior.
Healing Surge: 190/210/263/316 HPS (corresponding to the stages) (1.03/1.14/1.43/1.72% HPS)
Healing Signet: 392 HPS (2.13% HPS)
Mending: 250 HPS (1.36% HPS)
Ranger.
Heal As One: 306 HPS (2.03% HPS)
Troll Unguent: 329 HPS (2.18% HPS)
Healing Spring: 161 HPS (without regen) (1.06% HPS)
Let’s look at the Ele now
Ether Renewal: 270 HPS (2.5% HPS)
Glyph of Elemental Harmony: 186/230 HPS (Glyph CD) (1.72%/2.13% HPS)
Signet of Restoration: Hard to Quantify
Necromancer
Consume Conditions: 200/282/365 HPS (0/3/6 conditions) (1.09%/1.53%/1.99% HPS )
Summon Blood Fiend: Hard to Quantify
Well of Blood: 165/205 HPS (Well cooldowns) (0.9%/1.1% HPS)
Mesmer
Ether Feast: 265/295/326/356 HPS (0/1/2/3 clones) (1.75%/1.96%/2.16%/2.36% HPS)
Mirror: 241 HPS (1.6% HPS)
Mantra of Recovery: 330/761 HPS (with all mantra related traits) (2.19%/5.05% HPS)
Engineer
Elixir H: 214/265 HPS (1.41%/1.75% HPS)
Healing Turret: 421 HPS (rough approximation, with regen) (2.8% HPS)
Med Kit+Bandage Self: 456/576 HPS (packaged stimulants + 30% toolbelt recharge, approx) (3%/3.82% HPS)
Guardian
Healing Breeze: 154 HPS (1.42% HPS)
Shelter: 146 HPS (1.35% HPS)
Signet of Resolve: 199/247 HPS (Signet Mastery) (1.84%/2.29% HPS)
Thief
Hide in Shadows: 169 HPS (not including regen) (1.56% HPS)
Signet of Malice: Hard to Quantify
Withdraw: 290 HPS (2.68% HPS)

Those numbers tell you all you need to know. When you have a class that is the highest tier base hp, armor, passive regen then you have a problem. Now if they changed it so that healing signet healed for half the current amount, but say putting 25 into tactics would double it then yeah. They could reduce the passive to around 250 health per second, but increase the scaling to 30%. Plenty of ways they could fix it so that the warrior has to make a sacrifice to get the huge amounts of passive healing they do now.

Yaki.9563:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Wukunlin.8461:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

Yes, healing signet right now out heals vor+ah if you are under 4 boons per second. If you can get up to applying 5 boons per second + the passive from vor will give you as much healing as healing signet gives passively.

Right now healing signet gives a passive 392 or so health per second with no healing power.

Guardian’s don’t get a heal skill, right? LOL @ comparing heal skill to no heal skill.

Actually I compared it against two of the guardians healing points. If you want I can compare adrenal health + signet passive with 3 from the guardian.

Shall we then assume 0 healing power for both, or is that not skewed enough for you? Maybe I should give the guardian 1000 healing power. That might help I suppose. So Guardian with 1000 healing power vs warrior with no healing power.

Passive regen from VoR with 1000 healing power 144 per second. AH with 1000 healing power is 79 per boon lets say 3 boons per second for 237, Signet of Resolve with 1000 hp heals for 9400/40 for 235 health per second. That brings the Guardian to 616 health per second.

Now a warrior with just healing signet and adrenal (I know you probably don’t want me to count that either, anything to skew the results though right) gives 392 and adrenal health gives 360 yes I’m going to assume full adrenaline. If you want me to rework it even more in your favor I will. 360/3 = 120. 120 + 392 = 512. Now we are ignoring that you have to have at least 150 healing power to even get it.

This means a guardian with 1000 healing power using their heal + getting passive from VoR + a constant 3 boons per second from AH heals for 104 more per second than a Warrior that is…doing nothing.

Now I know what you are thinking. You are thinking this still isn’t fair, I should have calculated this with the Guardian having 5000 healing power, and the warrior with 0 healing power and poisoned. Maybe next time.

In the mean time check my math, I haven’t slept in 3 days so It’s possible I’m off on something.

Wow, most of the replies just reek of bad players desperately clinging to anything to give them an edge instead of relying on skill.

People make suggestions to open up counter play that doesn’t even mention a nerf, and the response is “no, then people might be able to dodge/block/blind”. Yet in another thread on this forum about Skull Crack being OP (their words not mine) people reply that it isn’t OP because you can dodge/block/blind through it.

Before today I was hoping that they would simply move traits around so that the tanky bunker builds that rely on this would still be able to get it, while the fotm players would have to learn how to play. Now I’m looking forward to the inevitable just so I can enjoy the tears from bad players who cling so tightly to this.

I don’t understand why the other warriors here don’t get it. People are trying to make suggestions that don’t involve a nerf because if it stays this way it will get nerfed, and based on Anets history it will get nerfed hard. As in they won’t just nerf skull crack, but ire, burst, pretty much a scorched earth nerfing.

Puandro.3245:

What shield is that.

It’s the Guild Shield.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Shield

My fiance runs the guild I think she made that the emblem just because it looks awesome on a charr =)

Puandro.3245:

Im all for removing Condition duration/reduction food in WvW. It’s too strong. Also condition duration weapons. After the patch that boosted conditions for many classes you either run condition reduction to avoid getting kitten d and then you have to run condition duration to be able to CC those running condition reduction. Its a horrible cycle.

Pretty much this. It’s just become an arms race, and at this rate something has to give.

If you look at the things people are complaining about in this build, it’s either the CC or the sustain. I don’t think either needs to be nerfed, just some traits changed to make it so there is counter play available. Just my opinion of course. I’m just happy to see actual discussion in this thread instead of personal attacks.

It will probably get nerfed the 6th and we will remain the worst pvp class in game.

Believe it or not that’s what some of us want to avoid. The way to do that is by suggesting changes that can be made without a direct nerf. Changes to traits by moving them up or down a tree for example. Say they made the stun on skull crack only 2.5 seconds. Now further imagine that they made a gm trait that said “chance to crit against stunned opponents is increased by 50%, stun duration is increased by 50%”. There now you have what is available right now, but it requires more specialization in order to achieve. So that the player has to choose to really go into a tree in order to get those results. Btw I’m not saying that’s a perfect fix, I’m just throwing it out there as an idea of what I think most reasonable people are talking about. I hope no one is just asking for a flat nerf, because not only is that not needed it also makes no sense.

I’m sorry if my post caused an argument between you guys. My intention was only to provide information. I came to the thread to check out the build. Currently I run mace/shield second depends on the situation. Trying to distance myself from it because even though I’ve run it for awhile I would rather start looking for an alternative now.

I’ve been wanting to figure out a way to make a condition tank spec work with warrior. What I’ve found so far is that we can put out good bleeds, but we lack as many conditions as other professions in order to protect our bleed stacks from a cleanse.

Right now I’m running a sword/shield setup and thinking about like hammer/lb/riffle off.

My charr looks like such a kitten with that setup (my opinion). My Guardian and Warrior look just alike but my Warrior is all white/metal and my Guardian is all Black/white. The contrast is cool, again imo.

edit
My mini Gnashblade photobombed me. Also before some guy decides to be a jerk, yes I know my graphics suck. It’s the best I can do and still maintain at least 40 fps. I wish I had a better card so I could record videos of gameplay.

Viking Jorun.5413:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

That and auras function like burning or immobilized. You can apply it for 3 seconds per leap finisher. Two consecutive leap finishers will double the duration of the fire aura. Try it! makes for some interesting fights against high-pressure opponents.

To my knowledge, and I’m not claiming to be all knowing it applies a 5 second buff per leap finisher. I also don’t think those stack at all. What I thought you meant in your first post was that you could generate the fire field then leap finsiher. Then do it again before the first leap is off cd giving you another fire aura. So that you were chaining them.

I could be wrong, but I will go test in pvp. Btw, is this different in pvp/pve?

That’s with the single leap finisher below. So it seems to be a 5 second buff, and I’m trying to screen shot it after doing the second leap but so far it looks like it doesn’t stack.

If you don’t want to take my warning seriously, that’s your problem.

That’s why necromancers managed to avoid it for the most part. Instead of screaming “but we are fine”, they had good discussions about the issues at hand.

Instead of even listening to the people here that play warriors that want to have a good discussion it’s become a series of personal attacks. Just look at the above. It went from me saying that healing signet got over buffed, and that something was off with the build to me apparently saying “warriors are OP”.

In the end I’m just going to drop it. If warriors get nerfed, that’s fine I will still play mine. If they don’t, that’s fine too. Every good player here knows you don’t always run with the same weapon for everything. You pick the right tool for what you need to do. I feel the same way about characters. It’s probably why all of mine look alike.

Ill agree condition reduction on a warrior is fine when people aren’t able to build for 100% condition duration to all conditions.

Passive regen on warriors is higher than rangers but they can’t activate their active. I already did the math and with the same heal power Rangers using Troll Unguent have higher burst healing but when its down its lower, overall at the end rangers edge out a bit more than warrior. Basically warriors with the signet are weak to burst and ranger have a 15 sec window where they can be weak to burst.

Every class can build for -65% reduction to all conditions.
Ele/Engi/War can build for 98% reduction to Chill/Imob/Cripple. Except Warrior pretty much needs it to be viable unlike the other 2.

I don’t feel the stun is too much, you NEED GS to do damage in the stun, Rangers are a whole different beast on their stun mechanic gaining a damage increase when they interrupt.

You could claim im biased but warrior isn’t the only class i roam in WvW in.

Lastly this build is good in small fights (5 or less) and i don’t ever see Anetnet nerfing for that very reason. Also Anet has yet to nerf something in WvW to a worse state than in sPvP and with Warriors only getting more buffs from here on i don’t see them doing it.

Can I just say that I think most of you are saying something similar. Instead of looking at something and going “well we need to be that strong”, why not say “why do we need to be that strong?”.

Right now I think the problem in GW2 is that warriors in melee suffer because crowd control has slowly grown in strength over time. This heavily punishes melee classes, and in order to compensate you have to give them additional power + ways to lessen that weakness.

It then becomes an arms race though. More CC to control the melee, means they need more compensation or else people just switch to all ranged (pretty much what has happened). It’s just a series of issues, because CC isn’t properly balanced.

Take the people complaining about the stun. What if instead of complaining about the warrior stun they just said that CC in general is too strong. You would probably agree.

Of course this would all be if we could actually have a real discussion instead of the current personal attacks.

Ashanor.5319:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Ashanor.5319:

You are wrong, TheGuy. You are just another one of the few that have been spamming our forums for the last few days. Even dodge is a hard counter to this build, and if you got vigor you got dodges to spare! All you have to do is avoid skull crack, and even if you happen to eat one, there are stun breaks and stability. This isn’t even counting blocks, aegis, knock backs, knock downs, cripples, chills or even protection. Also, unless you are glass, even if you do happen to get caught in a skull crack and eat a full HB, it isn’t going to hurt that bad. Especially if the war is using soldiers like they should be in this build. If not, they are going to be pretty squishy.

What I really do not get is why is the community that has always been number one at really getting class balance so blind right now? Do you really want your easy wins that bad? Then you should have gone over to thief months ago.

Where are all those pro M/Sh GS warriors in the tournament? Don’t see any huh? Hmm. They got to be there, so overpowered and all right? The only blind one here is you. You play these other classes and think that gives you some superior perspective to all of us when in reality all it has done to you in make you not look at things objectively. This is nothing more than a nerf witch hunt. I know exactly why you want it nerfed too. You don’t want to be forced into using stunbreaks and timing your dodges better. You want to continue using your “pew pew” builds and pretending the game never changes.

Who’s been posting on these forums longer, me or you?

oh and
http://intothemists.com/articles/spvp/tournament-comp-roles-guide/

Wait, next you will say that itm isn’t a good site for gw2 pvp huh?

What do you think that proves? Whether a guide says it is alright or not, nobody who is trying to win the current tournament is running warrior last I checked. lol

I have been on these forums and other forums (such as GW2guru forums) since release, may want to try a little harder. I also exclusively played warrior in beta and have mostly played warrior and thief since release. You still didn’t post what I asked for, probably because it will show the truth.

Has anyone else noticed it is the same 5 guys in every one of these warrior nerf threads? So ridiculous.

I will post whatever you want, right after you show me the quote where I called warriors OP in this thread.

The difference between the two of us is that at first I did not role a thief to be OP. I played a warrior, we had issues. I didn’t care, I liked the class. So I played it. I don’t really have a main, it’s like asking me what my main is in LoL. I play whatever champ fits the role I need at the time. That includes will it do the job well, and will it counter the enemy champion, how well does it my team synergy. I play different classes, and I would suggest you do the same.

Now you’ve claimed multiple times that I’ve said warriors are OP. Please let your next post to me be that quote.

Puandro.3245:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Setun.4368:

My only question is why not sword offhand for the torment stacks?

I run shield for its defensive capabilities and the free stun. When I successfully chain “Fear Me!”, Savage Leap, Shield Bash and Flurry, the fight is very well over.

As a secondary bonus, it gives me two leap finishers to double the time my fire aura persists.

Auras don’t stack in intensity.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he meant at all. What he meant was that he can proc fire armor, and then after that wears off he can then proc it again if he needs to.

Ashanor.5319:

You are wrong, TheGuy. You are just another one of the few that have been spamming our forums for the last few days. Even dodge is a hard counter to this build, and if you got vigor you got dodges to spare! All you have to do is avoid skull crack, and even if you happen to eat one, there are stun breaks and stability. This isn’t even counting blocks, aegis, knock backs, knock downs, cripples, chills or even protection. Also, unless you are glass, even if you do happen to get caught in a skull crack and eat a full HB, it isn’t going to hurt that bad. Especially if the war is using soldiers like they should be in this build. If not, they are going to be pretty squishy.

What I really do not get is why is the community that has always been number one at really getting class balance so blind right now? Do you really want your easy wins that bad? Then you should have gone over to thief months ago.

Where are all those pro M/Sh GS warriors in the tournament? Don’t see any huh? Hmm. They got to be there, so overpowered and all right? The only blind one here is you. You play these other classes and think that gives you some superior perspective to all of us when in reality all it has done to you in make you not look at things objectively. This is nothing more than a nerf witch hunt. I know exactly why you want it nerfed too. You don’t want to be forced into using stunbreaks and timing your dodges better. You want to continue using your “pew pew” builds and pretending the game never changes.

Who’s been posting on these forums longer, me or you?

oh and
http://intothemists.com/articles/spvp/tournament-comp-roles-guide/

Wait, next you will say that itm isn’t a good site for gw2 pvp huh?

Scoobaniec.9561:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Please raise its damage in PvE.

It already has the same coefficient as a 3 bar Eviscerate. Which has the same damage as Final Thrust when the foe has <50% hp.

As for your “no one uses it in PvE” argument: I am running Sword/Axe and I think it’s awesome. Fills my adrenaline bar in 3 seconds flat.

Based on this guys other posts he doesn’t know what a coefficient is, and even if he did he can’t seem to follow the math in other threads even when it’s provided.

Sir:
-Evi does that damage in one shot which takes 0.75sec
-Axe chain also does highter damage
- Its not even useful to filling up adrenaline, trait for either sharpening axes or furious, or take both and watch adrenaline jumping like crazy.
-Axe offhand offers nothing, its a trash. If they remove it from warrior i won’t ever notice any difference, that offhand wep doesnt exits to me and to many others out here.

Just because you may not like something that does not change the math behind it. It’s like guardians when you point out that sword aa has better damage than zealouts defense. They don’t get it, but that’s just how it is.

Show me a video where u killing mobs faster with whirling axe than axe chain. Zealouts at least has utility attached to it – blocking incoming projectiles. What utility whirling have behind damage? And don’t say its adrenaline filling, i actually explained it. Nobody that is serious using axe offhand, if i see actually someone that does i votekick him (in most cases their archievement points are below 3k anyway)

So you can’t argue against the numbers, and instead want to argue…what? They serve two different purposes? It would be similar to me saying “show me a video of you killing mobs using your healing signet faster than stomp, if you can’t then healing signet sucks”.

Ashanor.5319:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

People here need to stop feeding the trolls, and have an actual discussion. You have people that play warriors, and they are pointing out that there are broken parts of these builds that will lead to us getting nerfed. Instead of denying that, instead a conversation on how to fix it before Anet does should get started. If we’ve learned anything from the past it’s that Anet’s idea of fixing a class is usually burning it to the ground.

A thread like that was started on the necromancer forums, and Anet is actually watching it and somewhat interacting. Hopefully we can get one like that started here.

You don’t play warrior. A warrior was your first 80 (10 months ago), then you moved on to bigger and better things. Your recent post history implies that your main is actually a Guardian. Stop trying to act as if you are one of us and you are simply here because you feel that you are playing an overpowered class and admit that a warrior outplayed you and you want them nerfed for it. No true warrior is going to say we are overpowered because we aren’t. As a matter of fact, no real PvP player is going to say that either, only people who got rolled because they don’t play correctly.

So wait, so it’s your opinion that because my warrior was my first 80 and that was 10 months ago I somehow don’t play warrior? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

You are welcome to add me to your friends list though, and then you can see first hand how much I play my warrior. Am I one of these fotm warriors like yourself? No, I’ve been playing one since release. The “bigger and better” you are talking about was me simply taking time away from GW2 to get higher in ranked in LoL.

I will openly admit that I play multiple classes. I have an 80 warrior, guardian, thief, mesmer, ranger. I am almost there on necro/ele as well.

Please feel free to quote where I said warrior was an over powered profession. I would like to see the proof. Maybe I did say it and simply forgot. Remind me, please.

The necromancer discussion is about dhuumfire a trait this thread is about a weapon set. Totally different things.

Lets assume Anet changes mace back to pre patch many people just move to sword/shield thats all that will happen. I see some warriors still use axe but not many.

Was referring to the change about DS concerning necromancer being too tanky while dealing that much damage. There are threads on the necromancer forums very much like this one. Once people started going “o.k. yeah we are bit too strong in this area, let’s look at it” things actually worked out. Right now these forums are in the “denial” stage.

What would I propose to fix the problems? Move some of the traits higher in the trees. There should always be a choice between damage, or being tanky. Once you have a setup where you can do both you run into a problem. That’s where the warrior is right now. You don’t have to like admitting it, but the math behind it doesn’t give a kitten about your feelings. It’s just numbers.

Now if people want to start having a discussion about those numbers I’m all for it, and I think that would be really smart.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Please raise its damage in PvE.

It already has the same coefficient as a 3 bar Eviscerate. Which has the same damage as Final Thrust when the foe has <50% hp.

As for your “no one uses it in PvE” argument: I am running Sword/Axe and I think it’s awesome. Fills my adrenaline bar in 3 seconds flat.

Based on this guys other posts he doesn’t know what a coefficient is, and even if he did he can’t seem to follow the math in other threads even when it’s provided.

Sir:
-Evi does that damage in one shot which takes 0.75sec
-Axe chain also does highter damage
- Its not even useful to filling up adrenaline, trait for either sharpening axes or furious, or take both and watch adrenaline jumping like crazy.
-Axe offhand offers nothing, its a trash. If they remove it from warrior i won’t ever notice any difference, that offhand wep doesnt exits to me and to many others out here.

Just because you may not like something that does not change the math behind it. It’s like guardians when you point out that sword aa has better damage than zealouts defense. They don’t get it, but that’s just how it is.

People here need to stop feeding the trolls, and have an actual discussion. You have people that play warriors, and they are pointing out that there are broken parts of these builds that will lead to us getting nerfed. Instead of denying that, instead a conversation on how to fix it before Anet does should get started. If we’ve learned anything from the past it’s that Anet’s idea of fixing a class is usually burning it to the ground.

A thread like that was started on the necromancer forums, and Anet is actually watching it and somewhat interacting. Hopefully we can get one like that started here.

CMF.5461:

Not really inline with the topic of the post being about on crit condition application.

As far as for burning secondary effects, I always thought a trait that reduced damage done by burning targets would be interesting. That is inline with the defensive aspect of the Guardian, adds group utility/support, and makes prolonged burning more meaningful, than passive damage.

That sounds like a really cool trait. I would love to see something like that. It even makes sense for the feel of the guardian.

Rainu.6871:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

actually none class except good thief, or mesmer could run away from the zerg which would be such stupid to chase them…..
actually when I am wandering on WvW alone/in very small group – if we will spot zerg in fight with we cannot fight we just don’t engage, don’t let them see us, and retreat in direction opsite to their target.
and from mine experience no good zerg will chase 2-3 players, when they are going for something else….

This, pretty much. Although I’d say thieves and eles are the only ones who can run away without dedicating utilities and traits to mobility (mesmers need Blink and probably some stealth utility and unless they have runes for it, they have little to no swiftness). If you roam alone or in a small group then you need to be aware of your surroundings, if the zerg is within attack distance (say 1200) then your best hope is to run in a direction that would mean the zerg needs to follow you – this will usually at the very least mean only portion of the zerg goes after you (especially if you’re solo roaming) which increases your chances of getting away.

Guardians have actually got quite good mobility compared to some classes, e.g. necros can barely run away from a snail on Valium.

I would say that necros have better mobility than you are giving them credit for. They have a passive movement speed increase on a signet. They also have a long duration swiftness with a teleport ability that doesn’t have to target a minion. They have more but you can see the point.

I’m not saying guardians are horrible, but I think you are wrong about necros mobility. They do have good mobility. They also have a teleport, a pull, etc similar to guardians.

Kasama.8941:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Edit deleted last post. You know what, build looks cool. I hope you enjoy it.

I’ve recently realized that no amount of theory crafting, or math crafting can replace actual experience. I encourage others here to do the same from now on. Just tell people, looks good and let them go. Experience is the best teacher in PvP.

Well, I’ve been playing it for the last two weeks now, and I do enjoy it very much. My hope is that others will too =)

Any feedback is welcome, theory or practice, so long as it’s constructive. But yes, theory crafting can only take you so far..

That bold part is the only important thing in a build. Players enjoy different things. For me it’s the strategy of finding something I can’t beat, then playing it and figuring out how to beat it. Then I apply that and win, and it’s fun. For other people it’s making a build and then developing the skill to make that build work. I could go on, but there are many ways to enjoy the game.

My post was about flaws, and that kind of stuff. What I have been thinking is that those don’t matter. I read my post and it almost seemed like I was saying “go this or your build isn’t good enough” and that’s just the opposite of what I meant to say.

I wish we had like a repository of builds that we could look at. With different headers like burst, sustain, bunker, counter. The counter builds is probably where I would spend most of my time as that’s just what I enjoy. Burst builds can counter some things, but the new meta that’s really taking hold counters burst so hard it’s ridiculous.

SmoothHussler.6387:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I wanted to know how you are handling the warrior skull crack builds that are so popular.

Obviously I cannot speak for the op, but blind is the enemy of that build. This is actually something a guardian has lots of access to with gs3, sword2 and focus4.

While I agree with you in theory, in practice though blind is actually pretty ineffective simply due to the way blocking works in this game with relation to effects. Which is annoying all on it’s own. As it is right now they can effectively block our blinds on a short cd. That isn’t to say that blinds aren’t good, they are. They just don’t counter this build.

I learned this the hard way while playing it, originally this was how my warrior was built but I hadn’t tried it since they got the buffs.

Edit deleted last post. You know what, build looks cool. I hope you enjoy it.

I’ve recently realized that no amount of theory crafting, or math crafting can replace actual experience. I encourage others here to do the same from now on. Just tell people, looks good and let them go. Experience is the best teacher in PvP.

Wukunlin.8461:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

what sustain does warrior have? healing signet?

Yes, healing signet right now out heals vor+ah if you are under 4 boons per second. If you can get up to applying 5 boons per second + the passive from vor will give you as much healing as healing signet gives passively.

Right now healing signet gives a passive 392 or so health per second with no healing power.

In fact the warrior has a great amount of passive healing. Right now yes they have the best sustain in the game. Aside from that one guy that claimed that elementalist could get higher IF they get a full rotation, are traited, and use everything they can just to heal, vs a warrior just sitting there passively healing. If you toss in things like adrenal health, and the healing power from traits though it’s different again.

Seetoo.9316:

Imma say no on bleed/torment, but only on the premise that fire cauterized. And is particularly good against bleeding. But hey “magic” right

Well it kind of makes sense that the burning would hurt them when they move.

Honestly you could do something like fear for 2 seconds on a 10 second internal cd. There are a few good conditions that would fit with the fire thing,

Seetoo.9316:

As I reached this last post I did think of “combustion” for the guardian. How bout this:
- 66% chance to deal 75% burning damage (as direct damage) x duration on crit
- cleanses burning off the target

There’s your crit AND condition damage. Issues I can see are 5 people applying 20 secs of burning on 1 target while the guard nukes it for 15 secs worth of burning in 1 crit.

If this is too much, then it could be changed to:
- 66% chance to reduce burn duration on a target by 1 sec
- deal 1 sec worth of burning damage (as direct damage) to the target

Would be better to have something like “sword deals 5% more damage, when you crit on a target that is burning apply torment” or a slow of some sort.

Red Raven.7824:

Excalibur.9748:

Warriors are overtuned for 1v1; they need to be brought down a notch or two, if they can do fine vs 2 or even 3 people.

It’s the combination of stun, mobility, and sustain that makes them a problem. Nerf either 1 of those 3 significantly or all 3 slightly and warrior will be balanced again.

Please stop talking out of your behind. You should probably stop posting on the forums and start learning how to play.

Warrior is balanced.

Balanced against what exactly? I continue to see people post that warriors are “balanced”, but there is no mention of what they are balanced against.

I personally run a setup similar to this one on my warrior, and I have for awhile. That’s one reason I feel that it’s off. Healing signet adds too much passive sustain for a high health/high toughness profession. I can build tanky, and still do way too much damage. If you think I’m lying about having a warrior that is 80 in exotics and that I pvp on him I will gladly provide screen shots (can’t do recordings).

Sure some people come here just to QQ that warriors are OP. I don’t agree with that. I think simply that healing signet got over buffed by a good margin, and that the current setup allowing very long stuns is causing issues. I don’t think this will be terribly noticeable to people until another profession gets a stun added that they can chain in a similar fashion though.

I think in pvp there should always be a trade off. If you go tanky, you take a hit to damage. If you go damage, you can’t be tanky. That is the entire basis of counter play. When you remove the counter play from a situation you have a problem. Right now there is a problem with certain specs on the warrior because it’s removing the counter play. If you want you can check my history and see that I argue against people saying “guardians need a buff” for the same reason. You need to have counter play in the game. Guardians are in a good spot for that because they lack good cc, and they have to choose either tanky or damage.

Linnael.1069:

wolfpaq.7354:

Turamarth.3248:

Do you think sustain is only about the hps you have?

Nope. Please quote me exactly where I said sustain is only about HPS.

Oh I never said that? Nice strawman, troll.

Neither of you are quite right.

Mathed out from back when I was playing one.

Over 40s, with clerics gear, 0/0/10/30/30 elementalists can achieve above 50k healing in 40s, popping all healing cooldowns on demand.

Over 40s, with any gear they want, x/x/x/x/x warriors can achieve 16k healing in 40s, popping no cooldowns.

Balanced? Not quite, but not the best sustain in the game by a longshot.

What happens if we actually give the warrior traits/stats similar to the ones you gave the ele?

Some people here need to learn the difference between SUSTAIN and MITIGATION they are two different, but related, things.

madgod.7421:

I would love to see an ‘easier’ form of mobility for guardians (maybe a signet w/25% inc. speed like other classes get).

That said, Im fine not having it simply because of what we get in exchange — speed plus great gap closers. I run Retreat/SYG/SY with soldier runes. 2 out of those 3 give me swiftness, and every time I use them I cleanse conditions. If I need to bail – pop retreat, instant swiftness, plus aegis to cover my skritten on the way out the door.

Need to catch a mesmer on the run? Pop retreat/SY then blink/leap to him — whats more, with the right setup that blink/leap will not only stack burning, but also blind and vulnerability on him, not mention giving me a few stacks of might while instantly increasing my damage against him by a good 30%

We were design to stand, fight and if necessary, hunt down and finish what they start. We are strong, we are fast, we are Guardians!

What exactly are you guys planning on doing to that mesmer when you catch him? Give him a hard stare and hope he falls over laughing long enough for you to kill him?

To the OP the problems you are having isn’t mobility, it’s that guardian is the worst class for CC. We are a class that’s designed to get into a fight, and then hope like hell the other people in the fight don’t decide to run. If they do, well that’s it. If they stay you can win if you are more skilled, unless it’s some of the more broken specs out right now (no worries they are getting nerfed)

I know you probably don’t want to hear this, but what you are saying you want to play is a warrior. To give you an idea of the class they have better sustain than guardians, better cc, better escapes, but they don’t really bring as many group buffs as a guardian if they are speced that way.

stunningstyles.7054:

Yes this I def NOT a wvw build…if u wanna see my wvw build checkout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6eZ8md6Ig&feature=c4-overview&list=UUTR1RaHwL3UEx4DB6SzoiBQ...the tpvp build doesn’t really work in wvw because it doesn’t take advantage of the opportunity for mixed gear..in tpvp the stats u can get are very limited so it is based off those limited stats

I wanted to know how you are handling the warrior skull crack builds that are so popular. I’ve tried a variety of different setups, and different runes but I honestly can’t seem to beat them. I really thought it was just a l2p issue on my part. So like everything when I can’t beat it I decided to actually play it and figure out it’s weakness. The problem is that the only weakness it seems to have is really high amounts of CC, which we currently don’t have. Actually I’ve so far done around 60 duels with it and only lost 3 times, once to a ranger once to a minion necro and once to another warrior running the same build. I’m curious how someone more skilled than me is handling it.

I already get that I can just 2v1 then, and that may or may not work. I did manage to win a few 3v1s and a couple of 2v1s. I attribute that more to my opponents lack of skill than anything on my part though.

edit

To clarify I can’t seem to get around the long duration stuns, even with stability plus their regen is pretty insane. I’ve done well against a few by going straight bunker, but then I couldn’t kill them and it became a fight of who got bored first. I don’t really call that a win though.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

they could add new attacks which 1-hit you to down mode if you’re not reacting fast enough. Now that the effects are going to be reduced when too much comes up, telegraphs could work out as initially planned.

… and Anet shouldn’t be afraid to 1-hit a whole group of players; a champion should be a challenge, even in low level areas imho.

Yes because punishing melee even more in this game sounds like a good idea, right?

As it stands now most champions are easily soloed because of how over powered CC is. CC ranged kiting is far too strong for that to work. Yes I abuse the hell out of it, I’m not going to say I don’t. I will continue to do so as long as it’s things are so brutal for melee. Recently I’ve been doing more pve, and to be honest most of it is incredibly easy and trivialized by ranged kiting. Anet already seems hell bent on punishing melee whenever possible.

If you can see the telegraphed attack charging (and you probably will with the improved particle effect system), then it’s not artificial any more. The enemy charges a big hit, you still stand in front of him – he hits you… of course you deserve to go down.

How else would an enemy be challenging ever, when 20 people are fighting him? He can’t be on every player at the same time.

Sounds good, but how it should be handled is anything within a short distance is unaffected, while anything further out is hit unless they dodge. Make the ranged people actually have to do more than mindlessly press 1.

CptAurellian.9537:

Sandra Martino.3870:

That said, AH should be a standard class mechanic because in soloing, pveing, roaming, pugzerging you will most likely have not a staff ele near to spam waterfields and thuss your survival will be kitten. You`ll be like a warrior, with a standard HP pool but no ability to heal it up and with much lesser health. Everyone always yells that guardians have much better survival than warriors dispite their healthpool, guess what, this survival is completely based on AH. Without AH their survival is kitten.

Nope. I have both classes as full glass cannons and the guard does not have any greater survivability problems than the warr. Usually, it is even better, despite the low health pool, due to easier access to blocks, blinds, protection and more frequent dodges.

The difference is that warriors have much better sustain than guardians, but guardians have better defense in utilities. It’s a trade off, but right now even good warriors will admit their sustain is a problem. Once that gets fixed and brought in line then they will probably be balanced.

Yes warriors passive sustain is better than AH + VoR combined.

Daecollo.9578:

Excalibur.9748:

We still have low damage.
We still have poor sustain (can be easilly kited/killed.)
We are still one of the hardest classes to play.

This is lulzy coming from the highest damage, and one of the highest sustain class. It’s also the class that is widely considered to be ez-mode and faceroll.

Gaurdians/Rangers/Engineers/Thieves all have higher sustain.

Rangers have higher sustained damage, Guardians have higher Sustained Damage, Thieves have higher burst damage.

Please go back to your own forums.

I’ve given you the math on guardians already and proved you wrong. If you want I can do it with other professions. You seem to not have the grace to admit when you’ve been proven wrong though. Should I do it again?

The only things that currently make warriors “op” are that other classes are fairly weak in the stun department. Once more classes get reliable stuns people will hopefully quiet down.

Ashanor.5319:

You can’t just compare one to the other and claim that one is overpowered because the numbers are larger. There are tons of other factors that go into what classes get what. Warrior, for instance, doesn’t have access to protection like guardian does. The closest a warrior could get is specializing 20 in a horrible line and using warhorn offhand and hoping and praying it converts a condition into protection. RNG protection is awesome guys! Other than that, 5 second with lyssa runes just like anyone else who runs them? If healing signet is so “overpowered” why are most of the top warriors still not using it? Care to take a shot at that question?

I get the impression you didn’t read the post. If you go back and read it you will see that it is a direct reply. I did not start the comparison, I only provided the math behind the comparison. If you disagree with the math, then please feel free to show me where I am wrong. I have no problem being proven wrong. However you should do it with numbers.

This is a common theme amongst people it seems. It’s similar to LoL when people are riding the freelo train with a certain champ. Try looking at it objectively. Perhaps it is easier for me since I play a wide array of professions instead of just one.

Guess what, I think your abundance of protection and your vigor on every crit that lasts for 5 seconds on a 5 second internal cooldown (let’s not forget it is only a 5 point investment for that perma vigor either) is overpowered.. oh wait, I don’t.. because I realize you have that abundance of protection for a reason. Let’s not even count the fact that warrior still can’t bunker and you want their sustain nerfed? Or the fact that you can regen yourself and have aegis. This is coming from THE original bunker? Is this some kind of joke? lol You got me!

I can’t even believe you have the nerve to come to these forums spouting this nonsense. It really is just that ridiculous.

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

? Socrates

Daecollo.9578:

Thank you for the replies. I wanted to know exactly how your class felt about nerfing such and I needed good replies to defend my class against your class.

I actually think AH is fine as is, however I am saying it can be ridiculous when paired right with traits and skills.

Actually I posted the math for you in the warrior forum. You are wrong, that is all. Let’s take it back there instead of here.

Daecollo.9578:

Hunter = A guardian who thinks warriors need nerfed when Guardians are the best class in the game.

Altruistic Healing heals for 300-500 hps, I think it needs nerfed. ITS A TRAIT.

I think Warriors need a trait that gives them protection for 5 seconds when they critical (5 second CD.)

Healing: 69 (0.01)?

For Altruistic Healing to provide 300 hps you would need to apply 4.28 boons per second, for it to apply 500 hps you would need to apply 7.14 boons per second. Nothing the guardian has is close to healing signet.

Now just in case you want to throw out some other information that makes no sense

Healing: 84 (0.06) That’s the healing on virtue of resolve.
Healing: 392 (0.05)? per second. Healing Signet

At 1000 healing power for the guardian he would regen 144 health per second.

As someone that plays both warrior, and guardian in pvp/duels I can tell you that the build on warrior is off. Healing signet got over buffed, and the down side is that warrior is probably going to take a pretty hefty nerf over it. It reminds me of the people on the guardian forums wanting guardian to get a buff over this. It’s stupid because it would just mean that Guardians get a nerf similar to what’s about to hit warriors.

foofad.5162:

Blinds and Courage + SYG aren’t mutually exclusive; it basically guarantees that you’ll be up and around. If you do fine without it, great, but SYG is immensely powerful even today.

I think you are seeing it as me saying “you are wrong”. I’m not, and that’s probably my fault for giving you that impression. What I’m saying is that SYG is useless to me because of how I play/build. I suggested SYS because it provides really great offense and defense. It’s a stun break also, and usually I would use it for finishing people off once they were at about half health.

It’s just a play style difference I guess. Doesn’t mean it’s right or wrong, and I’m not saying SYG is a bad choice. Just that once you get used to it you don’t need it anymore for duels.

CMF.5461:

Condition is the only thing we don’t have, but that is where the meta is right now, so we are at odds with the current meta. That doesn’t mean we can’t play in the current game, but we have to do it differently.

That’s kind of the point though, right now we are sort of a counter to the current meta. By keeping guardians where they are they can control how crazy that meta gets.

As for the classes you’ve mentioned each one of them are on the chopping block for nerfs. Necros just underwent a slight nerf last patch, and it’s already been stated that they are going to get more. I will edit in the thread.

The thing about being tanky + having strong condition damage is that it turns you into something completely different. Kill pressure while also having an incredible defense is a very tight rope to walk. Rangers felt the bite of having that a few patches ago. They could build bunker, and still put out pressure. The end result was a wave of nerfs, and probably more (they don’t need it) in the near future.

If you look back each time you end up with a class that can effectively bunker while still putt out good pressure they must get nerfed.

Could they somehow redo our traits to make it work, maybe but it would mean condensing some of our most important traits down to single traits and putting them very high in a tree similar to what they did with warrior/mesmer. It would be a pretty massive rework though. I personally would like a rework so that we could have viable options aside from you build X or Y. In it’s current form it can not happen though, and it shouldn’t happen.

I really don’t see the issue. Guardian and I guess Ranger are the only two classes I can think of that don’t have good condition builds. No one screams “nerf necromancer conditions” because they can already swing a good direct damage build, just like no one screams nerf Elementalists because they can swing a good bunker as well as conditions.

Rangers had an amazing condition/bunker build. They got nerfed pretty hard too.

As for Guardian mobility that’s an issue with your play style/build and not something to address here.

foofad.5162:

LOLWAT. You really think an Aegis every 80 seconds is better in a duel against a Hammer or Mace warrior than 5 seconds or more of Stability plus a stunbreaker every 24 seconds traited? What? Sounds like a recipe for spending the summer on your back.

F3’s activated block/passive yes. More importantly that also means that they somehow got through a series of blinds/blocks to do that. I don’t mind proving my point though, and I genuinely wish I had a way to record videos.

edit:

I guess what I mean is that you should never ever get hit by a telegraphed move like that. You should always have endurance to dodge, if not then you can always activate courage. In the cases where you would use SYG you are basically face tanking clearly telegraphed abilities. Why though, there should never be a need for that.

CMF.5461:

I don’t think anyone anywhere in this thread didn’t say guardians were not strong.

We are trying to help grow the guardian and open new avenues, but again you are only thinking along one aspect of the situation.

I am not asking for raw damage and condition damage. I am not asking for full defense and full offense, I am not saying guardians suck, I am not saying guardians can only run AH, I am not saying bunker guardian is the only way to go.

But you insist on thinking those are the things I am saying.

From what I gather you are asking that guardians get a viable condition build. If I’m wrong then I’m sorry, but that’s what I thought you were asking for. I’m explaining to you why that’s a bad idea. Currently we have two main ways of building. We can go with a bunker, or we can go with a damage build. There are mixtures of the two that are good also, but neither excels at what the other does. If Guardians got that third path then one of the other two would have to suffer for it. It opens up a pressure build that can go with either of the other options because there is no way with the amount of trait points we have to eliminate that option. Right now our condition damage serves as a small pressure for a burs, or a small pressure for a bunker.

Imagine holding a point against a cleric bunker guardian, that also was capable of putting out good condition damage. It would be broken as hell. Imagine getting pressured by a burst guardian, but instead of having to sustain through a burst you also had to sustain through a pressure setup too. Sure some professions can pull off the above, but those professions are currently getting nerfed and the devs have made it clear they aren’t done with the nerfs.

There is no way to maintain the strength Guardians have now and to add viable other paths. It would require a full remake of certain traits/trees which would effectively reduce the current setups we have now.

I’m not trying to be a kitten, I’m trying to explain to you that right now I can burst down certain professions/specs within 2 seconds and there is no way they can add to that without Guardians being broken. I’m also trying to explain to you that they can’t add another viable build option without increasing the strength I already have as a guardian.

foofad.5162:

Alright, so: Searing Flames is crap, sadly. It can proc even when they have no boons, wasting the cooldown. And it’s too long a cooldown to do much of anything useful. If you’re solo roaming, Purity is fine, but Focused Mind is actually an extremely underrated Meds build trait. Essentially it reduces Smite Condition’s cast time to instant, which doesn’t sound like much, but it allows you to cast Smite Condition without breaking your autoattack chain. That won’t matter with the Scepter, but it will keep your Sword DPS at maximum while autoattacking because you don’t have to worry about not blowing that third hit for peak damage. It also allows you to cast it during your JI -> ZD/Shield of Wrath chain for an additional however many thousand damage bonus to your burst. Very cool.

Otherwise, you did fine. Stats layout is adequate, triple Meds is very hardy against the high-condition meta right now in WvW and you’ll be able to regenerate a good amount of HP with Monk’s Focus to keep your sustain up. That said, you won’t sustain like a Healway will solo, but you’ve also got much better burst.

You may want to reconsider the Scepter for Hammer, though. But that’s not a build issue, you can tweak what weapons you use.

Edit: Re: GSSBlunaspike, if you’re going to take a shout instead, take Stand Your Ground. It’s an outstanding stunbreaker and a great source of stability and retaliation which are fantastic boons.

SYG is great, but in the end it’s usually wasted. The current use of stability is to counter the cc part of the meta. That can almost always be avoided considering we can block those effects. With proper use of f3 syg becomes irrelevant.

Keep in mind this is from the perspective of duels/solo game play.

To give an example I’ve made it more of a target to fight necros lately. They are really popular right now. To avoid some of the damage swords teleport will pull you over their marks. Say you are in FoN (seems to be where I duel most often). You can avoid most of their burst by going behind the gravestones, then after the marks are placed sword 2 to them. If they stand in the marks you can pull them out of it.

I personally don’t run a shout at all. I use bane signet most of the time because the extra kd is a huge help at interrupting. There is almost no need for the extra defense of a shout. The only time I’ve needed more defense was recently against a cleric build warrior that had incredible regen. In that case though bane let me end up getting the kill. I would say proper use of teleports trumps stability.

Again this is all from a dueling perspective.

CMF.5461:

I don’t know the right direction, and I’m open to all ideas to spark brain storming and maybe the devs will start thinking along the same lines, if they are not already.

Hybrid, yes, which suggest a reduction somewhere to gain a little bit of everything but not all of everything.

So a sacrifice somewhere to gain viable condition usage, but not play into the fears of some of the above posters of making us OP damage demons that have it all. I don’t know if I agree with them on how amazing and OP it would be, as most people like to post “guardian is fine, move on”.

edit: lol np foofad

The main problem is that the sacrifice would have to be in our damage either through a coefficient, or some other meaningful way. If they did not then our already impressive damage would be pretty crazy. As it stands right now we pack very impressive direct damage, and only meager armor ignoring damage. This allows some counter play, but also allows us to keep up with the current meta. If they switched our profession to take more advantage of the current meta, then the sacrifice would have to come from our direct damage. It would also be a pretty big hit.

Personally I don’t understand how anyone can not realize how strong guardians are right now. I’m sure if you try running an AH build you might not feel it (players like stunningstyles excluded).

They must avoid putting more damage into either zeal/radiance. If they don’t then they will have to nerf us.