In all honesty and despite the fact that I love roaming with my ranger:
It’s all fun until you run into another player who plays a dueling build. like a mesmer, warrior, necro, thief, ele or engi. Even if you’re as good as the other person, the class WILL make the difference. Go into the dueling area and fight some people using dueling builds there. Have fun – or not.
THIS sadly is the truth. Once you face top tier players on META roaming builds you will lose. Ranger does not have the damage in a condition/sustain build to defeat a perplexity engi/thief/necro. (Perplex not even necessary just makes it more OP) Power builds have no chance against those type of builds either; Power builds also have weakness against high burst classes like warr/thief. They have better mitigation skills. In the end though you should run with a ranger if you enjoy it. I sure do. But you must know the limitations of the class.
Any meta build can be beaten with any ranger build. Skill is all that matters. Also lol at perplex thief, their annoying, but not that difficult to beat. Its a L2P issue.
Oh and, the only real threat to rangers is glas thieves and condi engies. Luckily, there aint too many of those two around.
Too bad you’re not on NA. I see you post here often and would enjoy a duel. You’re probably better ranger than me. Given all that, I am quite confident I have dueled better rangers than you. They can not beat my meta warr/engi/necro/thief builds. Oh well. Must be a L2P thing.
By “meta” you must be referring to the borderline OP builds like PU mesmer, or D/P theif. If you run a cheese build it invalidates any sort of competition.
Pfft, because you can’t beat something it’s a cheese build that takes no skill? Part of playing any profession is playing it to the level that builds aren’t as important.
That said I’ve gotten a few kills lately because rangers would volley into a full reflect. Is it not common knowledge that sword off hand block doesn’t end on ranged attack? I’ve never seen so many bow rangers, and I have to admit I love it from a bag perspective.
Banners are great but if you want to run banners in wvw, the only banner you really run is tactics. And you mainly just carry it around with you. If you want Banners to really work for you too you should run some clerics, or Apothecary or something with healing power. Your basically a banner kitten but it does help especially in small man fights.
He’s specing for regen on banners with the trait, and they don’t stack. The base heal is o.k. though, so at least that’s a plus.
Op should probably just look into going with shout heals with hammer. In which case, you will mostly kill everything you face. It’s a pretty awesome build. Fast hands for weapon swap, guaranteed 3 crits each time, plus might stacking from it. Heals from shouts add up, it’s a nice build. Very tanky, plenty of damage, good cc.
It doesn’t need to stack with other peoples regen….When a warrior specs for healing power their banner regen is going to be better than just about anyones base regen boon so it makes no difference if it stacks or not. And yes the banner 2 skill stacks with the banner regen it uses the same exact formula.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Regeneration
The Regeneration.png Regeneration boon grants healing over time determined by the following formula:
(5 + (1.5625 * Level)) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second
At level 80 this is:
130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second
Only stacks duration, with down time on the banner anyway there is no need for the heal. Either way it doesn’t really matter, it’s just preference. I prefer to give raw power/condi damage. You may prefer something else.
edit
And yeah, shouts are just so much better to be honest. I mean vig shouts has a .9 coefficient, that’s really strong right there. Then when you consider how easy they are, and unlike regen you don’t have to worry about the healing being turned/stripped.
(edited by GSSBlunaspike.4153)
Banners are great but if you want to run banners in wvw, the only banner you really run is tactics. And you mainly just carry it around with you. If you want Banners to really work for you too you should run some clerics, or Apothecary or something with healing power. Your basically a banner kitten but it does help especially in small man fights.
He’s specing for regen on banners with the trait, and they don’t stack. The base heal is o.k. though, so at least that’s a plus.
Op should probably just look into going with shout heals with hammer. In which case, you will mostly kill everything you face. It’s a pretty awesome build. Fast hands for weapon swap, guaranteed 3 crits each time, plus might stacking from it. Heals from shouts add up, it’s a nice build. Very tanky, plenty of damage, good cc.
what do you guys think of banner regen in wvw?
here is my build. still updating.
http://intothemists.com/guides/3920-psychos_regen_banner
banners can be great, but you have to get used to them. You also have to learn to switch weapons instead of using 5 for dropping them. Then there is the downside that they will get stolen by someone who has no idea how to use them.
Also..Battle Standard.
If I were going to do that I would probably go with something like
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-t;4NKkL0_4NLVQ0;9;6OTE;418-47A1;0RoG6R;1qObSqObSN0Gg0-uYC0;1vV0X5Y8ZG4La5iWQ-5V07V-17V;9;9;9;9;9;54-6V
Hey everyone, looking for some advice for getting into WvW with my warrior.
I currently mostly do dungeons and fractals
I run Nike’s build (4/6/0/4/0) and (6/6/0/2/0)/(6/6/0/0/2) with GS & LB – A/W
I have full berserkers trinkets includedI’ve been wanting to get back into WvW but I have never done it with warrior.
Is there any WvW builds that will be effective with a full berserker setup or am I going to have to invest in another set of gear?Also, what are some effective WvW warrior builds?
Thanks!
Well if you are against doors, you can’t crit. If you are against zergs you will probably get blown up. There are some people that make it work, but I’m guessing you want to get in close and use your gs. You will be rally food.
Also really lack any cc that way.
Like I said, adjust the ppt-tick to account for (in real-time) the population imbalances…JQ faces YB, JQ has all maps queued on reset, YB has 2-3…JQ gets handicapped on PPT, IMO that is the best way to get rid of these 100-200k blowouts.
JQ should still win on coverage alone, but at least the YB’s or whoever else would have a fighting chance.
It doesn’t give them a fighting chance, it just means they get slaughtered for nothing. The population on many servers has fallen drastically as people rushed to get onto the winning servers.
What that means is that most of the people doing wvw now face odds that are 5 to 1, sometimes 10 to 1 or more. When you have outmanned on every border land, eb, and eotm it’s just no fun anymore. Being spawn camped for days isn’t much fun. Anywya, I know Anet doesn’t give a kitten . It’s not their problem, all of this was brought up in beta and ignored then. It won’t be addressed now, and I should just follow suit and either quit the game or move to a higher server.
I just wish sunset overdrive would come out already.
That sounds nice, but they should also divide all winnings by server population. Hey it’s never going to be fair, I agree. That way it encourages people to move to where it will be more beneficial.
It’s all about encouragement. People would move if Anet said we will give the winning server 1000 tickets, and the losing server 500 tickets. Those are then divided among the number of active accounts that participated.
After having season 1 and season 2 it seems like Anet will need to offer something fresh for season 3 of player will just be bored as it is right now for most player. What could be added? EU vs NA matchups? Reroll every player on random balanced servers and let’s see how they collaborate? Reduce the lenght of the season? Change the way score is calculated? (more points during hot time, and less time during night and early morning) What do you think?
Unless they can fix the population issues there is nothing they can do to freshen it up. Except now even more people will stack because they are bound to tie even more rewards into the system.
I know this would be a big change to some base classes but high speed classes should not be heavy armor wearers or stealthed players. It makes no logical sense and breaks most fantasy conventions. The counter balance to those powerful abilities is speed so pairing them with speed seems very strange. The fact a thief can move faster while stealthed is mind boggling. A fully armored beefy warrior running faster than everyone else… hmmmmm.
How the Ranger class missed out on being the fastest class in WvW is still a mystery to me. The entire history both real and fantasy is about their ability to cover vast amounts of territory quickly. Even more surprising is the fact it has its primary purpose right in its name “range-r”. A common misconception is that it is a ranged attacking class, but it is named after patrolling large territories.
Just some food for thought.
While true you are using reasoning to explain it. That’s the problem, when you consider a giant (think 10 ft tall) is wielding a huge metal sword twice the weight of a human and bringing it down squarely on the head of someone else with no armor except a cloth hood. By your reasoning that should just flat out kill them, but it hits for maybe 10% of their health.
I would agree with your reasoning if they adjusted damage to match. The problem you would have is that those ranged classes, with high speed, would then be unequaled. The warriors armor would be useless because he would just stand there.
It would take Anet completely redoing their balance for classes. High armor would have be a bonus. Now what they could do is just open armor up completely. Any profession could wear any armor class, and then give each armor class basic qualities that affect damage. Something like heavy armor reduces all damage by 45% with 10% damage but you move 20% slower. While medium would reduce all damage by 20% but give a 10% damage boost move at normal speed, and cloth would be a 10% damage bonus but no defense but you move say 20% faster. Then change the speed at which you move based on that.
I realize those numbers are wildly skewed, but it’s just to get the point across.
Every single class in this game besides necromancer is good for instances like dungeons and fractals. Ele and thief are your top dps classes, guardian, mesmer and engi are your utility “carry” classes if pugging. Warriors have nice utility and are easy to play, rangers have nice utility but are more challenging to play because of the sword auto.
Terrahero is just blowing things out of proportion, most groups aren’t like that at all, and people who want to stack warriors and guardians are just bad at the game.
Um he pretty much explained everything spot on. If you want to dispute it go ahead, I’m sure I can post a significant number of videos showing exactly what he described. Now if you don’t like that, it’s fine. However stacking/los is now the meta for most anything.
edit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/25jl7r/world_first_sub_3min_dungeon_by_snow_crowssc/
I’m going to go ahead and just start posting videos
(edited by GSSBlunaspike.4153)
I think the premise is a bit flawed. When would you actually need a purely-ranged approach to PvE? The only situation I can think of would be world bosses.
Low and behold, for that it’s definitely Engineer. Two reasons:
- Grenades, with trait, have 1500 range. Very good direct damage, can pick HGH on top for lots of boons, good survivability since nothing can hit you.
- (don’t laugh, we’re talking a world-boss-spec here) healing bombs + traited mortar. Bombs are amazing for group situations, but you can go fully ranged with the Mortar, 1500 range, lots of AE fields, lots of support, Healing Turret healing people while you fire. Damage is comparatively low but hey, world bosses.
Other than maybe jormag is there any world boss that mele stacking isn’t better. It’s even better on FE.
To answer the bolded question, warrior. It’s sad but until they design some inventive pve mechanics that don’t rely on heavy armor classes using zerker-like builds warrior will remain on top. Ranger dps ranger might compete but effectively warrior would win because they can bring defenses in and still pull off high damage with rifle. It feels like all the pve content is balanced on anet’s favorite class :/
I agree with you that Warrior is a better ranged profession than ranger.
People need to stop the “favorite class” bs though. Warrior is a pretty balanced profession, it’s not alone. Right now elementalist is also up there. Other classes simply need quality of life changes (not buffs) to bring them up to that level. The big changes that made warrior so strong lately were all just little things. That and they keep changing where they want professions to go, like giving guardians all of this condi damage but only one condi. Imagine how balanced guardians would be if they had access to some respectable conditions.
I don’t think Anet has a favorite class, it’s just that some classes have an obvious direction they are moving in. While it’s obvious that some of the devs have no freaking clue where they want other professions to go. Do they want guardian to be a condi tank? Do they want guardian to be a control setup (pretty useless in pve anyway)? With the last patch they fixed a bunch of things with ele, and hopefully they will get around to addressing other issues.
This relates to the OP because on my ranger I really feel like Anet has no clue where they want that profession to go. I make it work because I really like ranger, but it’s no where near as effective as some of the other professions. They need to either go “o.k. we want these guys to be a master of ranged combat” and then give them the tools, or better yet just provide power rangers with the tools to make that choice on their own. As for damage being tied to a pet with bad ai, yes it is. That sucks, and I wish that they could simply give rangers more tools to help with their pets since fixing the AI seems to be impossible.
There is two things Anet can do that wouldn’t involve deleting the pet or giving Rangers the much asked for permastow option that, in effect, deletes pets anyways.
Either untether all companions and Pets from standard Enemy AI, give them their own AI, and actually make them more threatening than the mob they were based on, or balance the Ranger around the fact that the pet AI doesn’t work under utopian conditions, and probably never will.
I wish so bad that they would go with the first. I would love to have my pet feel more like an actual player rather than just a dumb mob. Even if they did add a way to perma stow him I wouldn’t. That cat has been with me from day 1 (literally) and I would delete my character before getting rid of him. I’m probably in the minority, but he feels as much a part of my character as my armor.
I also wish they would make Master’s Bond not screw up if I step into the water. It’s the same kitten pet anyway. Sorry, I’m starting to rant. That is no good for anyone.
Absolutely not.
Fast Hands is an insanely powerful trait and you should consider yourself fortunate it’s so low in the tree to even allow the diversity you have in the first place.
Despite where Cleansing Ire (the only truly mandatory Warrior trait) and Fast Hands are, the Warrior class already has more build diveristy than many other classes. On top of this, the Warrior class is one of the most vital classes to this entire game.
There is absolutely nothing the Warrior class needs at this point that shouldn’t also come with rather substantial nerfs in exchange.
And yes, I play a Warrior.
Also as a warrior I agree, however there is a problem.
As above said, you should be happy the best essential traits all fall into two lines.
That right there says the problem. Why is it that we need to have certain traits in order to be effective. That’s what I think the OP wants addressed. I don’t think he means to inadvertently buff the class, because that would be silly. Right now warriors are pretty balanced. Having said that people have to admit that it’s rather silly to have mandatory traits just to be effective.
Maybe they could add some kind of trade off to switching weapons. They could make the baseline time at 5 seconds, however doing it would reduce your adrenaline by 50% of whatever it is at. Then at 6 seconds it would reduce it by 40% so that at 10 seconds there is no penalty. Then a warrior could choose if they want to take that penalty or not. They could leave the trait in so that you can swap at 5seconds with no penalty.
I’m sure that’s not a big enough penalty for some people, and I would rather Anet just address the issue. Btw this isn’t just a warrior thing either. There are a few professions that have mandatory traits, and it’s wrong to do that. You might as well just go ahead and subtract those trait points and just give them to the profession base line. I know someone will say “you don’t have to take them”, and that’s true. You also don’t have to use a weapon in combat, you could rely on your damaging utility skills. Just because you have a choice doesn’t mean it’s viable.
And you think Warrior is bad? Try playing Ele…
If you mean skill wise I think Ele is probably the most diverse out of all professions. They are capable of doing so much at once, having an effective 4 weapon slots. If you meant trait wise, yeah they are about the same/little worse as warriors.
edit
Including screenshot of my characters, because someone is going to go “oh you don’t think warriors need this because you don’t really have one”, or someone will go “oh you think something should be fixed because that’s all you play”
(edited by GSSBlunaspike.4153)
To answer the bolded question, warrior. It’s sad but until they design some inventive pve mechanics that don’t rely on heavy armor classes using zerker-like builds warrior will remain on top. Ranger dps ranger might compete but effectively warrior would win because they can bring defenses in and still pull off high damage with rifle. It feels like all the pve content is balanced on anet’s favorite class :/
I agree with you that Warrior is a better ranged profession than ranger.
People need to stop the “favorite class” bs though. Warrior is a pretty balanced profession, it’s not alone. Right now elementalist is also up there. Other classes simply need quality of life changes (not buffs) to bring them up to that level. The big changes that made warrior so strong lately were all just little things. That and they keep changing where they want professions to go, like giving guardians all of this condi damage but only one condi. Imagine how balanced guardians would be if they had access to some respectable conditions.
I don’t think Anet has a favorite class, it’s just that some classes have an obvious direction they are moving in. While it’s obvious that some of the devs have no freaking clue where they want other professions to go. Do they want guardian to be a condi tank? Do they want guardian to be a control setup (pretty useless in pve anyway)? With the last patch they fixed a bunch of things with ele, and hopefully they will get around to addressing other issues.
This relates to the OP because on my ranger I really feel like Anet has no clue where they want that profession to go. I make it work because I really like ranger, but it’s no where near as effective as some of the other professions. They need to either go “o.k. we want these guys to be a master of ranged combat” and then give them the tools, or better yet just provide power rangers with the tools to make that choice on their own. As for damage being tied to a pet with bad ai, yes it is. That sucks, and I wish that they could simply give rangers more tools to help with their pets since fixing the AI seems to be impossible.
I have something like 14 level 80 characters because I like being out in the world and leveling gives me the motivation to do that, and I also like having the option to play whatever profession/race combo I’m in the mood to play. I have several 80s of some professions, and at least one 80 of all professions.
Except I have zero engineers.
Recently I’ve had a lot of trouble finding fun stuff to do in the game. And I’m thinking, for the hundredth time, of making the engineer alt that I’ll finally get to max level.
My question is whether there is an enjoyable playstyle for leveling an engineer. In past attempts, I was sick to death of the basic rifle and pistol skills by the time I was level 20. Grenades and flamethrower were fun for about a level but got old really fast, and after that it was really painful to log on and play the class, so I usually abandon it in the 30-40 range to free up a character slot.
Are they fun in sPvP? I know they can be good, but are they fun? What about WvW?
What has been your experience leveling engineers and what advice do you have for someone who is about to give it one last try? Any tips are much appreciated. Thanks!
This is my problem. I’ve leveled every class to 80, almost all of them twice, or so I thought. Then I checked, and yep no 80 engi. I had an engi in the mid 40s before but deleted him.
So far I’m back at 42, and I find myself dreading just clicking him. You might say “well then just don’t play him”, but I really want to like the profession. It’s similar to what I do in real life, and I just want to like it. I want it to be fun, and I keep thinking “o.k one more level and things will change”. Except they don’t.
I’m hoping someone will give me some tips. I tried out flamethrower, and that was fun for a few levels. The downside is that apparently there are tons of bugs with it. For example I was trying to kill some maggots, but even though they were right in front of me my guy aimed at the ground and wouldn’t deal any damage. I died trying to figure out how to hit them. Sometimes an enemy will be slightly elevated, like on a little hill. I will aim up to hit them, the animation plays, but no damage. Yeah I died that way, and it sucked. So I thought “o.k. let’s try out these grenades”. Except with no auto I’m spamming the 1 key, but it doesn’t lock on. I use my mouse for turning, and movement, so it’s hard to constantly adjust to aoe where I want my grenades and control my character. So I usually end up sitting still, and just throwing grenades. Against enemies that are moving though I get beat up pretty badly.
I might be doing it wrong, if anyone has any tips please give them to me. If it ends up with just go bomb kit and spam the same thing over and over that seems like Anet should fix something. There is no way that is what leveling is supposed to be like. I remember on my warrior one of the awesome things was just using all of the different weapons/combos. I could use a hammer/gs one day, the next day sw/shield, or lb axe/mace etc. With engi it seems like there aren’t as many different things I can try.
. Warrior does benefit relatively less from Strength (outside of a Phalanx pug-carrier build) since they don’t stack as much might as other classes do
What
I actually agree with hendo.
What?
I seem to have no problem generating plenty of might, and when I go with might sharing I can maintain 20-25 stacks easily. So I’m hoping that was just sarcasm about warriors, or maybe they meant “in the most professionally organized group play there is a profession better at generating might for a short period of time even if it isn’t maintained”. That sounds about accurate.
FGJ is 3 stacks, Battle Standard is another 3. That’s about 6 stacks you can share around using an utility and an elite on very long CD, that you can use maybe three times in a dungeon tops. That’s not exactly huge might stacking, unless you were referring to self-stacking which is purely a solo/pug thing.
What?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Strength
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/For_Great_Justice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Battle_Standard
BS procs every 3 seconds giving me 1 stack of might, and nearby allies 1 stacks. I then give them 1 since it counts as coming from me. So every 3 seconds I passively give 2 stacks of might. If I recall correctly, please look at the above and tell me if I’m wrong. For great justice provides me with 3 stacks of might, and allies around me with 3.
Now FGJ is on a 25 second cd, and banner is on 192 second cd. So the banner I guess is long, but considering last 60 seconds, it’s actually only on a roughly 2 minute cd.
Sigil is on a 1 second cd, provides 10 seconds of might etc. Mixed with runes of strength I have no problem stacking might by myself without having to make use of anything other than standard damage.
So I just don’t understand how “since they don’t stack as much might as other classes do”.
Does this mean that things that occur in less than a second in the Warlordverse haven’t actually happened at all?
EDIT: Less than a glass I mean.
So you would agree that .99* is in fact not equal to 1?
- I don’t know how to insert a vinculum into this forum.
. Warrior does benefit relatively less from Strength (outside of a Phalanx pug-carrier build) since they don’t stack as much might as other classes do
What
I actually agree with hendo.
What?
I seem to have no problem generating plenty of might, and when I go with might sharing I can maintain 20-25 stacks easily. So I’m hoping that was just sarcasm about warriors, or maybe they meant “in the most professionally organized group play there is a profession better at generating might for a short period of time even if it isn’t maintained”. That sounds about accurate.
I did, but I don’t think you paid attention to where I put the words “if”. That’s to say that I do not know the absolute intention of the OP, but I’m assuming he confirmed my theory when he replied Yes afterwords. I could be wrong, and he could have meant that for someone else. I have no way of knowing. However I think anyone will admit that if his intent was to show that the 10% wasn’t as accurate as it appears, that he is correct. However that has, or at least should have, been known already by anyone caring to know.
Just leaving that there as a system that I wish gw2 had more of. The last time I used anything like this was with the mesmer. Haven’t tried with warrior, and I’m not even sure if it would work.
edit
The above link is about stutter stepping in LoL. It’s pretty essential, in my opinion, to be good with it if you want to get past maybe high gold. It’s a skill that’s relatively easy to learn, and enhances your damage significantly. Maybe there is a system like this in GW2, I’m really not sure.
No one here is saying that DWA is 10% but he is claiming that it’s essentially useless.
There is not stutter stepping in gw2 because of one simple reason – you can already move while attacking. In every game that technique was possible (including gw1 where it was called qstepping) your character couldn’t move and attack at the same time.
There used to be a way to cancel animation with Mesmer, but I don’t think it’s available anymore.
I remember in GW1 I pretty much mastered quarterknocking, it made pvp require much more skill. It was easy to tell the bad players from the good ones. That system doesn’t seem to have carried over into GW2 unfortunately. It’s one of the reasons I think GW2 is a good PvE game, but a bad PvP game. It doesn’t properly reward skilled play versus bad play. I remember when it first came out I would go through rotations on ele, and I became frustrated because for all of the perfect executions there were other professions that could preform equally just by spamming a single skill.
So if the OP’s original point was to say that “This trait doesn’t provide a flat 10% increase to attack speed as it relates to damage, nor does this give a 10% increase to dps as would be implied by a 10% ias”.
Perhaps you should actually read the OP and see what he is actually saying on it.
I did, but I don’t think you paid attention to where I put the words “if”. That’s to say that I do not know the absolute intention of the OP, but I’m assuming he confirmed my theory when he replied Yes afterwords. I could be wrong, and he could have meant that for someone else. I have no way of knowing. However I think anyone will admit that if his intent was to show that the 10% wasn’t as accurate as it appears, that he is correct. However that has, or at least should have, been known already by anyone caring to know.
Just leaving that there as a system that I wish gw2 had more of. The last time I used anything like this was with the mesmer. Haven’t tried with warrior, and I’m not even sure if it would work.
edit
The above link is about stutter stepping in LoL. It’s pretty essential, in my opinion, to be good with it if you want to get past maybe high gold. It’s a skill that’s relatively easy to learn, and enhances your damage significantly. Maybe there is a system like this in GW2, I’m really not sure.
(edited by GSSBlunaspike.4153)
No thank you. I love my “Sweet Vengeance” trait. It can turn the fight around.
You do realise if they get rid of the Trait and do the changes (or near it) above like I suggested it could be better than having your “100% sweat veng” only in a kill right?
I like the feature too, but wasting things like Signet Mastery, Mobile Strikes… etc for a 100% veng is dumb. Very very bad trait.
Signet mastery does not compete with “Sweet Vengeance” because it is an adept trait. And “Sweet Vengeance” is a master trait. Instead of saying “this trait sucks” try giving a valid reason as to why the trait is worthless. The trait guarantees that you get out of downed state by yourself if you kill someone. That’s a pretty good trait to me.
“If you kill someone”… otherwise, the trait is worthless and offers you nothing but a guarantee on keeping you alive after Vengeance, of course, in pve this chance is way higher, and maybe you’re defending it on pve wise, my concern is pvp, and this Trait pvp wise, im sorry bobomb, its garbage. Even an adept trait offer you more in fights.
Well, to be fair you can also kill a deer =P
With those rules this topic would have got immediately deleted.
Not really, he did provide a video. People usually accuse their forums of being too strict, and that being so strict stops meaningful discussion. Obviously that is incorrect, but I think watching the video in the OP has merit. It brings up a good point about the calculation of casting speed vs flat attack speed. This trait affects the casting speed, but that seems to be it based on the video.
The OP “proved” it is a 6-8% dps increase over 30 seconds. We have shown that it works out to be a 6-8% dps increase over virtually any given time frame. We have also shown that when you restructure the metric from a set time frame to mob kill time, it would still be 6-8%.
Our argument, that it’s a 6-8% dps increase, is remarkably consistent no matter which way to try to splice it.
To be honest, I am not sure what Warlord is arguing. Every example he has made to “prove” it is less than 6-8% dps increase has been mathematically incorrect and contrary to any consistent logic.
Here is the final test.
Step 1. Imagine a test dummy with 10,000 hit points. The axe auto chain hits for 100 (10,20,20,50 for each individual stop of the axe chain) hit points per chain. One build has DWA, one does not, but they both his the same 100 per rotation. Who kills it faster, and by how much? If I am right, the DWA build will kill it 6-8% faster. You tell me.
Step 2. Imagine a test dummy with 100 hit points. Our axe auto hits for the exact same 100 as in step 1. Who kills it faster, and by how much? If I am right, the DWA will kill it about 6-8% faster. I’ll wait.
I gathered something different from the OP. I look at it and see that the actual attack speed doesn’t match up because of the after cast on the skills. You would normally think of something like a 10% increase in attack speed, to be a roughly 10% increase in dps. If you consider that you attack once per second, and that your attack deals 100 damage. Then over 10 seconds you would deal 1000 damage. With an increased attack speed you would attack once every .9 seconds for a total of 11 times over 10 seconds for 1100 damage. A 10% increase, however there isn’t a flat 10% increase in this. That’s partially due to the nature of the attack being discussed, and probably because increasing attack speed does not increase after cast.
So if the OP’s original point was to say that “This trait doesn’t provide a flat 10% increase to attack speed as it relates to damage, nor does this give a 10% increase to dps as would be implied by a 10% ias”.
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With those rules this topic would have got immediately deleted.
Not really, he did provide a video. People usually accuse their forums of being too strict, and that being so strict stops meaningful discussion. Obviously that is incorrect, but I think watching the video in the OP has merit. It brings up a good point about the calculation of casting speed vs flat attack speed. This trait affects the casting speed, but that seems to be it based on the video.
I think the problem both groups are having in this thread is the lack of understanding on what an aftercast is, and what affects it. Certain things do not affect an after cast, while certain things do.
I don’t think you understand it either.
Then explain it to me, explain to me how this trait affects it. Also in terms of dps explain it with this trait. I can, so let’s see you do it.
edit
Reading this thread makes me miss EJ from WoW. People would complain about the rules, but half the posts in this thread would have earned infractions already.
To give you an example, here are their forum rules.
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/forum-172/announcement-5-forum-rules-updated-32214/
There is a reason why they are generally considered the best when it comes to theorycrafting for an mmo. I’m not including LoL btw, because obviously that has it’s own places for theory crafting.
DPS means damage per second. If you are going 10% faster per second (excluding aftercast) you are doing 10% more damage. With aftercast included, it translates as a 8.x% damage increase. Nothing else to see here.
Why do people keep excluding one of the most important parts of the calculations.
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I think the problem both groups are having in this thread is the lack of understanding on what an aftercast is, and what affects it. Certain things do not affect an after cast, while certain things do.
bull
To make it easy for you, get your critchance to 100% and kill a normal mob in cursed shore with just axe autoattacks. Once without, once with the trait. Assuming you always crit and deal the same amount per hit, now check both in frame for frame format. If you can’t figure the kill speed difference then, a) just don’t ever come back to the forum or, if you can, b) apologize for giving false information, followed by a).
Can you tell me the increase on aftercast with the trait. I can’t seem to figure it out.
For those that already know what I’m talking about, shhh.
Edit
For those that have no idea what I’m talking about, or how it affects your attacks more than you probably know.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/What-does-aftercast-mean
That explains it o.k. This was a pretty big thing in GW1 too. To give you an example, say you have an attack that takes 1 second to cast, but has a .5 after cast. The total time is 1.5 seconds. If you increase the attack speed by 10% it would lower the 1 second cast time to .9 second cast time, however most things don’t lower the after cast. So it would be a 1.4 second attack.
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Thanks for the advice, I’ll look into that. If I do I might just go Axe and drop the rifle.
I have another question, Does burst precision proc every single strike of a burst skill (thinking sword)
Yes it does. It also procs every pulse of the aoe from lb. At least it did right after the patch. I tested this with sword/lb and both got a huge chain of crits. The AOE on lb can actually net you more potential damage because of the size of the aoe. It only pulses like 3 times though, but still it’s great aoe denial. It works with all of the aoe skills as far as I know, making every hit from them an auto crit.
Just tested again and yeah every single pulse from lb aoe will crit on all targets that it affects. I’m not sure if even intelligence can match that. It gives a potential 15 crits in a row.
Not saying it’s the best damage though.
Also makes every hit from hammer burst crit too, just like sword. My favorite test so far was crack shot, rifle burst. So many crits, I know it’s not really that usable, but still.
Wow that is powerful. I need to give more thoughts to this.
Anybody else have ideas for build that might utilize Sword or LB like this?
With the right glyphs/runes it makes it so that your longbow will crit every tic on the aoe. That will cause bleeding with the sigil of earth, maybe strength for the increases in might. You could also do nullification making your aoe crits remove boons/bleed/burn.
I still think it’s just too high in the tree to be useful for a condi build though. It does give you a huge amount of crits, and if you could say catch a group in a choke point it would be death most of the time, but that’s really situational.
Thanks for the advice, I’ll look into that. If I do I might just go Axe and drop the rifle.
I have another question, Does burst precision proc every single strike of a burst skill (thinking sword)
Yes it does. It also procs every pulse of the aoe from lb. At least it did right after the patch. I tested this with sword/lb and both got a huge chain of crits. The AOE on lb can actually net you more potential damage because of the size of the aoe. It only pulses like 3 times though, but still it’s great aoe denial. It works with all of the aoe skills as far as I know, making every hit from them an auto crit.
Just tested again and yeah every single pulse from lb aoe will crit on all targets that it affects. I’m not sure if even intelligence can match that. It gives a potential 15 crits in a row.
Not saying it’s the best damage though.
Also makes every hit from hammer burst crit too, just like sword. My favorite test so far was crack shot, rifle burst. So many crits, I know it’s not really that usable, but still.
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I would just be happy if our banners were made so that only the owner/group could pick them up
Nerf zerker more so we can spend another 10mins on boring bosses with massive health pools
Wouldn’t it make sense to then simply give more power, not damage, to control setups.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable
That seems, at least to me, to be why berserker is simply the best setup.
For some reason the past day or so I’m getting a dc when I try to enter combat, and after a bit of relogging the client gives me an error. I can restart the client,
In a perfectly organised group.
I think this is where the real problem is occuring. People seem to be under the assumption that perfectly organized parties are easy to come by. Aside from that, it also seems that perfectly organized parties are really less useful in most of the recent content.
I’m not sure how well an ele can stack might while doing the Teq event, but I know that I can keep up huge amounts of might on people.
I have limited experience playing an ele though, so maybe they can keep up all those might stacks on people around them with ease.
Not very well. Too many other fields around, guardians fir a start automatically drop light fields because it’s a fixed trait, and WoRs are gonna be everywhere in Teq.
GS can’t stack might either but what you can do until Anet wakes up and fixes world bosses so they can be critted is have a guardian cast empower on you, then PS should mirror that to everyone around you.
I’ve never tried the following but if it then affects another warrior with PS, that warrior should mirror it again to everyone around him as well, so you can probably set up a chain reaction to keep the entire zerg mighted.
Someone needs to go and try that, if it works then there’s something else you can do with the trait that would be hilarious in WvW.
On Teq I used fgj/bs with runes should allow you to continue to keep up the stacks even without crits. If you are guarding the cannons it’s easy to maintain at least 20 stacks the entire time. With just the banner/fgj you should be able to maintain around 20 stacks continuously on open world stuff that can’t be crit. Remember that every fgj is 6 stacks of might to everyone around you for at least 30 seconds.
Edit: with the last part I should have put 3 stacks with at least 30 seconds, 3 stacks on like 10 seconds. With things like BS though it’s doubling the might stacks too because it applies a stack to them, then a stack to you which applies a stack to them. It’s all passive also.
Second Edit: I don’t know that much about really organized dungeons, but on Events where the boss can be crit this is also a huge amount of damage. I don’t see many warriors running this for some reason, so I end up giving 20-25 stacks of might to my group/people around me. If they ever make it so things like Teq can be crit this would be a huge amount of damage that one warrior could add to a group. Considering how they want these open world bosses to be difficult I don’t think it would be too far afield to think they will make future ones like that.
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In a perfectly organised group.
I think this is where the real problem is occuring. People seem to be under the assumption that perfectly organized parties are easy to come by. Aside from that, it also seems that perfectly organized parties are really less useful in most of the recent content.
I’m not sure how well an ele can stack might while doing the Teq event, but I know that I can keep up huge amounts of might on people.
I have limited experience playing an ele though, so maybe they can keep up all those might stacks on people around them with ease.
I was curious about this, and from what I’ve seen so far it makes every tic of a burst crit. Long Bow’s Combustive Shot (CS) crits every tic of damage, and not just the initial hit. I know it works with flurry, abysmal damage even with that many crits. I was just surprised to see it worked that way with lb, and thought other warriors might find it interesting.
here is my first video test in wvw group play
i hope we will see more condi guardians out there
i used both build in this video
meditation build more forgiving as it heals you like crazy
but the first build just spread burning much faster
i dont think this build will be valid with guild groups as support guardian are much needed and also group prefer to go full power builds than conditions
however i can think of few roles this pyroguard can fill in guild group play
1.put pressure on the enemy restack, sieg placement
2.pushing the backline,
3.pressure the enemy to use shouts early
You should post some where the enemies aren’t so heavily outnumbered. It would give people interested a better idea of what the spec can do in even encounters, or even when you are outnumbered.
If I reflect the arrows while blocking do they still get the increased speed? I don’t have anyone to test this with, but I’m guessing many of you have tested/encountered this.
Lotro got the rangers very right. I really wish GW2 had done the class more like that.
I played my lotro ranger just so I could see the animation when something got in my face and I would punch them and then fire an arrow into them point blank.
Really ranger should have been pet less… the pets are goofy. They won’t ever go back on that now of course. The class should have been a trapper / Stealth class. We should have had a bar like the warriors adrenaline bar, that would have charged up for our F1-F4. They could have swapped the F skills around based on the weapon slotted, with 3 levels just like warriors bar. That way we could have weapons give us the F1 skill line up with 2 handers haveing unique 1-4s… and single hand weapons imparting 2. Ranged weapons could have been traps and support skills… melee could have been Stealth and tricks like muddy t. Our 7-9 skills could have focused more on spirits / runes / perhaps even some glyphs. Leaving our survival / trap type skills as a class mechanic.
Or just play a warrior, and use a lb. You can sort of mimic the look with a sword/sword lb setup. There are even armors that look like they are leather in some ways. Make a sylvari/human and go with a condi spec to get the best of it. You end up doing a ton of damage, and being super tanky.
No offense, I can see the point you are making, but I really hate those comments.
The TL;DR of those comments is always “If you want to play a real ranger, play the warrior.”
I wasn’t saying “if you want to play a real ranger, play a warrior”. What he gave as a description of what he was looking for is what I was replying to.
Look at what he actually said. No pets, he even directly mentioned a warriors adrenaline bar. To me it just sounds like what he was looking for was a warrior using a lb sw/sw or a lb/gs something along those lines. While I do play warrior more than anything else I happen to also like my ranger a great deal. If I were to give a description of it though it wouldn’t be like a warrior. To be fair I wouldn’t know how to describe my ranger, because I don’t feel they really have a direction. They feel like a warrior with lower armor, and less health. If I could change anything about GW2 it would be to make every profession have the same base health. Then let players spec/gear determine everything else. Having some professions with half the health of others was just silly in my opinion.
Lotro got the rangers very right. I really wish GW2 had done the class more like that.
I played my lotro ranger just so I could see the animation when something got in my face and I would punch them and then fire an arrow into them point blank.
Really ranger should have been pet less… the pets are goofy. They won’t ever go back on that now of course. The class should have been a trapper / Stealth class. We should have had a bar like the warriors adrenaline bar, that would have charged up for our F1-F4. They could have swapped the F skills around based on the weapon slotted, with 3 levels just like warriors bar. That way we could have weapons give us the F1 skill line up with 2 handers haveing unique 1-4s… and single hand weapons imparting 2. Ranged weapons could have been traps and support skills… melee could have been Stealth and tricks like muddy t. Our 7-9 skills could have focused more on spirits / runes / perhaps even some glyphs. Leaving our survival / trap type skills as a class mechanic.
Or just play a warrior, and use a lb. You can sort of mimic the look with a sword/sword lb setup. There are even armors that look like they are leather in some ways. Make a sylvari/human and go with a condi spec to get the best of it. You end up doing a ton of damage, and being super tanky.
So Ive been gone for awhile. Like a year or so. I was looking at playing again. So I went on the forums for each of my classes that I play the most. Eng and Guardian. It seems everyone says they are now usesless….so I went to some other forums…everyone hates every class. Sounds like typical MMO stuff. So my question is.. are the classes that messed up or typical MMO banter.
I love my warrior, and my mesmer.
Absolutely! I just started playing… and until I got my traits, I couldn’t even do my story quests! It’s kinda absurd… I get that’s it’s supposed to be a grind, but this game is years old and I kind of want to get to 80 ASAP to catch up to everyone already at 80 doing the 80 stuff and being at 80…
Good thing I only bought this half off… guess it’s not that much a waste if it turns to crap.
Sadly that seems to be generally what people are saying that are new. The person I recruited to play has already quit.
Anet I don’t think realized how bad this would suck for new players. They either need to implement better loot at lower levels, or starting at 10 give 1 trait every 5 levels. The current system is not fun for any of the new people I’ve talked to.
I’m rather certain there is anecdotal evidence for “yeah but new people love it”. If anyone at Anet wants please pm me, I will gladly provide you a list of names of ACTUAL new players that hate this feature.
No they do not…newcomers will be faced with the new trait system and have no recognition with the old one..(and therefore no demotivational issues..they just don’t know better )
Unless you define newcomers as "people who recently joined in and are already facing these huge changes)…which IMO are not newcomers..but thats a matter of subject
I’ve dealt with this today, because someone I know just started. They wanted to try it out because I was so excited about the wardrobe system. They quit after a few levels because once I explained that they wouldn’t get anything till 30 they just didn’t feel the drive to level anymore. I came back after a long break for the wardrobe system, and the new leveling won’t affect me because of the 80s I already have. For new players though I can certainly see how this would not be fun. Maybe if they gave the first trait at level 10, then maybe 1 at 15 and then slowed it down to 1 at 25 etc with 1 every 5 levels.
I’m not really sure how to fix the system, but I don’t think the current one is going to win anyone new over.
not to mention durrz, do not forget that warriors can easily outheal the whole condi spam…. oh wait, they can’t. Their regen got nerfed by poison uptime
I don’t think anyone can outheal the current condi spam, however we can become immune to conditions. How about you?
Oh wow, warriors can apply confusion without traits and your conditions magically do more damage than mine when we are in the same gear and have the same stats? Oh wait…. They don’t…
So you want to compare professions without traits now? Interesting, so then let’s assume for the rest of your post you are only using conditions applied by weapons.
Well at least you can apply your conditions easily from ranged, oh wait… You can’t, well I mean at least you have a large amount of evasions to allow you to avoid both incoming direct and condition damage…. Oh wait, you don’t, you’ve gotta either pop your CDs to avoid incoming damage or soak it up like a sponge…
You understimate my longbow. On my longbow I’ve got bleeding, burning, cripple, and immob. Not to mention a blast finisher, and a combo field fire. On your longbow you’ve got…a cripple. You have to evade, I on the other hand have roughly 200 more armor, and almost 4k more base health. Plus I’ve got blocks. but I didn’t realize that evasion allowed you to not take condition damage. That’s interesting.
I mean at least you have easy access to chill, immob, weakness, burning, poison, cripple, and bleeding… Oh wait, you don’t… You only have burn, cripple, bleed, and immob on your condi weapons…
We are talking about conditions, why would I not use my condition weapons. Are you wanting to restrict it now to “we are better at applying conditions as long as the warrior gets no traits, armor, and can only use a gs?” If so that will change things, and I will concede you are correct.
Oh wait!!! But you can still deal a lot of direct damage and be really tanky while going condi built! Oh wait… You don’t have a pet with stats independent from yours…
That’s your big argument? We don’t have a pet. You are right, our dps doesn’t just randomly disappear with one aoe. Our dps is dependent on us, not a pet. I can change my gear/spec to affect my damage. A ranger is reliant on AI to deal damage.
Huh, you’ve REALLY got us rangers beat, there’s no way we could EVER complain to a warrior when it comes to conditions…
Well at least you got this part right.
Read the Wind is excellent for longbow. I tried it and am really enjoying it. “dodge this”
I am however of opinion that either Read the Wind, Eagle Eye or Piercing Arrows should be default behavior. The competition is rather high on Marksmanship and rather non-existing on Skirmishing.
Oh no, the horrors… you need to choose between traits, the kittening horrors…
@ everyone complaining about our Grand Master Traits, you’ve clearly haven’t used them yet, they’re all awesome, RTW makes our arrows impossible to side step and it’s absolutely glorious, it’s like using a gun!
Not to mention Poison Master, Survival of the Fittest and Invigorating Bound may be the greatest things since sliced bread, I mean sure we’ve got scum bag striders defense over there in the skirmishing tree being “meh” but as for all the others they’re all amazing.
Poison master also affect pet abilities. Tested it earlier.
Just sayin.
Both of you need to get with the program. Don’t you read these forums? Apparently you don’t since everyone says this patch was a massive nerf to the Ranger class….and a major boost to every other class.
Positive outlooks aren’t welcome here !
This forums only reasonings to why we got shafted is “I want read the wind base line!” And “poison master isn’t a damage boost because poison increasing in damage isn’t as good as if bleed increased in damage.” Aka very bad, arguments, from likely bad rangers.
If anything we got buffed THE MOST out of every single other profession because our pets now work.
You tie in the grand master traits (which are all amazing with the exception of Striders defense) and there’s no way anyone got as big of improvements as us. Not to mention we benefit from the sigil and rune changes greatly and because of how they work and our inherent versatility got a surge of roles opening up from a change not even targeting us specifically.
And before some idiot says, “but Durz warriors got those too!” Warriors don’t have easy access to every condi minus confusion, blind, and torment, warriors don’t have 100% uptime with 3 (arguably 4 with sword/dagger as an option) of their weapons due to being ranged, warriors don’t have nearly as much SUSTAINED damage as us, etc.
A ranger going for damage went from pretty scary, to absolutely horrifying in one patch, a GOOD ranger is capable of just out controlling, and out damaging people now due to these pet changes.
LOL can I please have some of the drugs you are on. You say that “well warriors don’t have easy access to every condition”, but neither do rangers. You are trying to pick and choose and say "well we have easy access to X, Y, Z " but completely ignore that those aren’t even great conditions.
As a warrior I have easy access to far better conditions, and the only one I don’t have easy access to is poison. That’s solved by a simple sigil addition. You can have poison, I get confusion,torment,bleeding,cripple. Add to that I have excellent defenses (higher hp, armor), plus block built in. That’s also not using any of my utility slots. Plus I’m not having to trade out much direct damage in exchange for my conditions melting people. Now I can just as easily spec to give perma regen, plus whatever banner buffs I want in addition to the offense.
Please, tell me more about your awesome poison lol.
Just gonna leave this right here…
Build is better, play is better.
I think I like full Dire better
It’s because regneration only has a .125 ratio for healing. You add another 12.5% of your healing power in health per second. With the build in the OP it’s another 142 (rounded) health per second. It comes down to is having the few hundred extra armor and the like 7k more health/700 more condi damage worth it? To me it is, but everyone is different.
Compared to OPs.
Should be rabid vs dire. Carrion is pretty much crap on any class/build other than a few pieces.
Second to this, go with dire vs rabid. Just my opinion, and as for my opinion I favor heavy dire builds. Become nearly unkillable while putting out plenty of torment and covering it with easy to apply bleeds.
Any attempt at an “all around” build which claims to be effective in all content is ridiculous and a complete waste of time. No build can do everything moderately okay – trying to make an “all around” build just ends up gimping yourself in every aspect of the game meaning you will be getting rick rolled in WvW, and end up useless in a PvE environment.
Use a different build for everything, trait resetting is super cheap, and keep different gear sets for each content. Even if you can’t afford multiple exotic gear sets, this is the still better option just using rare equipment – someone in full rare Berserker gear will be better than anybody running a “tanky” exotic Soldier build in a PvE environment, but running exotic Berserker in a WvW Zerg will not be as beneficial as rare Soldiers or Knights.
Oh, and no matter what, Divinity runes, and celestial stats in general, are junk. Absolute junk. Don’t use them.
I agree with the beginning part of this statement. Going all around is rarely a good idea. Invest in something. Tank or DPS or Condi.. whatever you want but don’t try to take it all on because it will just fall flat.. I know.. I have tried it. Don’t be fooled by a build being good if your team is the one carrying you. I have had that happen. I will think my stuff is just rocking only to see my team switch up in the next run and I get rolled over.
At least in wvw/pvp it’s possible to do more than one thing at once.
I run a dire condi bunker build. It works with roaming because I’m able to go 2v1 pretty easily. I can usually score at least one kill in a 2v1 before the other runs off. I don’t have much trouble on anything below a 3v1.
That’s a problem with the condi bunker meta though. Right now it’s just so much easier to stat for condi bunker compared to more power oriented builds. Build power and get one shot by a thief, burned fast by a burst build, or die slowly to a condi bunker.
Guild wars 2 combat is more fluid, you have to make them sit through your 100B.
If you’re playing against a GS warrior (low level tournaments/hotjoin) and don’t save one stunbreak/stability for 100B you should not be playing this game.
I think the point you missed is that taking a GS in WvW isn’t even about 100b. GS is a fantastic weapon for mobility. Used correctly it makes you nearly impossible to catch. Used incorrectly the player just becomes rally bait. That applies to pretty much everything though.
I think the point you missed is that this topic is meant for discussing a build that includes taking a GS to WvW. Sure it is great for mobility, but creating a build for WvW for the sole purpose of running away is not threadworthy.
Have you ever done WvW? Because to be honest your replies read like someone that hasn’t set foot in WvW. I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about. I don’t really have time to explain it, but I’m almost certain google will work. I’m not trying to be mean,but it would waste both of our time if I sat here explaining exactly why you are wrong.
Could you please elaborate? Are you implying there a warriors in WvW that actually run a greatsword build? I don’t know which server you are on, but I am seriously worried.
O.k. I will admit you trolled me good.
Guild wars 2 combat is more fluid, you have to make them sit through your 100B.
If you’re playing against a GS warrior (low level tournaments/hotjoin) and don’t save one stunbreak/stability for 100B you should not be playing this game.
I think the point you missed is that taking a GS in WvW isn’t even about 100b. GS is a fantastic weapon for mobility. Used correctly it makes you nearly impossible to catch. Used incorrectly the player just becomes rally bait. That applies to pretty much everything though.
I think the point you missed is that this topic is meant for discussing a build that includes taking a GS to WvW. Sure it is great for mobility, but creating a build for WvW for the sole purpose of running away is not threadworthy.
Have you ever done WvW? Because to be honest your replies read like someone that hasn’t set foot in WvW. I don’t think you understand what I’m talking about. I don’t really have time to explain it, but I’m almost certain google will work. I’m not trying to be mean,but it would waste both of our time if I sat here explaining exactly why you are wrong.