Guild Wars 2

Galphar.3901:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I just want to make sure that Anet is actually going to engage with us before Traits 3.0 goes live so we can avoid another year long+ quagmire.

They won’t. If they were going to engage with us they would already be bouncing ideas off us in the forums. The guys in charge are stubborn and believe they know better than the players. We are supposed to shut up, eat what they give us, and like it. So we will get what we get and I will continue to play other games.

That is the way it has been in the past. Hopefully, they’ll have learned their lesson and will engage us with ideas. If they just drop a new Traits system on us again and it’s worse than we have now, then they will loose more than half of the playerbase I think. And it would then take a miracle to bring them back and allow GW2 to survive then.

I don’t believe there’s any flexibility in whatever they have planned for new-new trait acquisition. They’ve had a year to engage us with ideas, to bounce back our feedback in the original 83-page thread, and it just sat there. All year.

So. Whatever we end up getting will determine if I end up getting the expansion or if I stick to the base game and continue spending my entertainment money elsewhere.

Test.8734:

Chiara.9827:

-I know why you may want to wait and add world 3 or at least modify it before releasing it (it might be broken due to some update or just in need of love because, as much as I loved it, it did have issues the last time it came out).

Didn’t the guy who build SAB leave ArenaNet?

Not according to linkedin, and I didn’t hear anything about him leaving.

Electro.4173:

I don’t really see how announcing its not going to come back now would be any better or worse than just having April 1st roll around and not having it appear. Its going to be the same amount of disappointment and anger either way.

People just need to stop expecting it at certain times or with every update and just roll with it, then instead of being disappointed when it doesn’t come back you’ll just be happy when it does.

Yeah, how dare people who spent actual money on an item that hasn’t been useful for 18 months now have expectations that the content rendering said item useful again return on some sort of timeline!

Infinite continue coin. Wiki it.

Bloody Prince, Heroes Mistforged, Delusion and the Crimson Lion staff. Just to round it out, I’ll add in the Chaos staff.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Stuck? I don’t feel “stuck” at all.

However, I agree with you that I feel that the incremental changes to the forge, over the past year or so, have resulted in … incremental changes overall. There are a handful of new items, new transmutations (e.g. promotions or demotions), and some things generate a few more skins than they used to. But it basically feels like the same forge as before.

Mind you, I like the forge as it exists. It’s quite useful to me personally and a lot of fun at times.

Huh. Could you explain why you like the change that made it so the forge would start returning items of lower levels than it did previously? I’m not being sarcastic, here.

Last year, around this time, we received this blog post from John Smith. The section about the mystic forge reads:

The Mystic Forge is going to get a lot of changes this year. To kick things off, we’re adjusting the way Zommoros distributes rare and exotic rewards a bit, allowing for more variation in output. This is just a stepping stone to further changes that will make the Mystic Forge a much better experience in the future. Please note: the rate of precursors will not be affected.

Mr. Smith further commented on this topic in the now-defunct BLTC subforum when pressed for more information about the changes.

The mystic forge changes are a work in progress. What I will promise is that when it is done you will like it much better than you do now.

So, clearly the changes aren’t done, but the blog post did say that the forge would change a lot last year, and we really haven’t seen that- unless they meant the literal destruction and rebuilding of the forge, of course. So I’m wondering if I’ve missed some of the beneficial changes, or if we’re still just stuck with getting lower level items?

I would also like to remind people that the wings are not exclusive to this one-day sale and will, in fact, be back in the gemstore.

Some of the arguments here in favor of the current trait system are mind boggling. It imparts a sense of progression? It is busywork preventing you from actually learning how to play your character fully. It takes away a system that was handed out for less than 3g for almost 2 full years and says that each character you make must now complete 65 unrelated, specific, and tedious tasks or pay 43g and 360 skill points to allow the same level of access.

The announcement for it focused on the fact that you no longer have to buy the tier unlocks- now you can just dive right in and start playing with the system immediately once you reach the appropriate level.

This is a game that I purchased because I was enamoured of the reasoning that the whole game should be fun to play, not just the part of the game after you reach level 80. Leveling in guild wars 2 was a refreshing and enjoyable experience because it largely wasn’t level-gated. And gaining levels didn’t render areas obsolete! I could still go to a starter zone with friends new to the game and get substantial experience out of it, and it was still challenging! I frequently forgot I even had level 20 scrolls, and I thought tomes of knowledge would never be for me.

If you’re trying to argue that having access to traits isn’t “game changing” you’re either using traits wrong, flat out lying, or traits are superfluous and Anet needs to be paying close attention to why that is.

The phoenix skin is my favorite, but a close second is the crimson lion. The eyes light up when you wield it!

Indigo, your proposed reason is certainly less alarming than anything I could come up with. I’m not sure I find yours to be much more reassuring than any of mine, though, Ashen. Maybe in that it’s an actual fully realized system, it is.

I still think it would be better to announce the details, but I think I’ve made that pretty clear, too.

We have been told time and time again that ANET will not comment on what they’re working on until it is roughly ready to implement, or in the final stages of preparing for implementation. It’s a stance I thoroughly disagree with, but it’s their stance. So are we really expected to believe that they randomly decided to drop that policy in the case of traits? Either they:

• Have inexplicably decided that, after 10 months of waiting for news, they should abandon that stance only long enough to say that a new-new system will be implemented, and then promptly went back to the “cone of silence” stance again.

Or they:

• Are flat-out lying in order to bury the old thread.

Or they:

• Have a snazzy new system ready to go, but are inexplicably unwilling to give even a rudimentary piece of information about it to the people who have been waiting for a year.

Or, finally, they:

• Know the changes aren’t going to make a lot of people happy, and are waiting to secure some pre-orders of HoT before they let that information become common knowledge.

These are literally the only reasons I can imagine they haven’t shared the information. None of those reasons fill me with optimism or hope. I would love it if someone could come up with a plausible scenario I’m overlooking that would put this into a more positive light.

When are we going to get information about the new-new trait system?

Aetheldrake.6395:

they can make more money by having you buy/earn a transmutation to use for smaller shoulders lol

also, some helmets are connected with shoulders, taking 2 display places at once

can’t really take away shoulders that are connected to the helmet, without taking away the helmet as well, when you want the helmet but not shoulders

Armor is what uses transmute stones, but this thread is about the outfit slot, which doesn’t.

Have you changed your graphics settings to be better? Loading better graphics takes longer.

And it’s now been a month of silence since the announcement that traits are “for sure” going to be changed. Yeah, no clue why I had my hopes up. I’m going back to my stance that I’ll believe in a change for the better when it is live and in game, and not a moment sooner.

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Hmmm. Power creep is a term in MMOs that mean successive expansions/content of a game have increased levels and more powerful gear, such as WoW’s player’s need to get better gear with each new expansion, causing old content and maps to become outdated and too easy to play in. For example, dungeons that originally required a full team become so easy with the player’s increase in power that they become soloable. The traditional meaning has nothing to do with how skills are handed out while leveling.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/06/the-soapbox-the-problem-with-power-creep-and-progression/

Power creep refers to vertical progression. Having access to more of your abilities does make you more powerful. This post (particularly the last paragraph) is what I was talking about, and I just spent an hour dredging through Nike’s post history to find it- it was a plainswurm and not a moa. Having access to 1 weapon skill is much weaker than having access to all 5. Thus, it introduced a power creep that previously didn’t exist.

/shrug. In that case all games have power creep, as you are now defining it. All chars start off with minimal skills and unlock more skills as they progress. Guild Wars 1 had this all along and Guild Wars 2 also had this since the beginning as you had to unlock weapon skills by getting new weapons and restarting the learning of them from autoattack. Utility, elite skills and traits didn’t unlock till later levels also.

However, that’s not the way that term is defined (google it) which is why I asked.

By the way, you might want to read up on the definition of vertical progression also.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/05/mmo-mechanics-comparing-vertical-and-horizontal-progression/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really

Yes, all games have a power creep, even GW2 prior to the NPE. Which is why I stated it introduced even more of a power creep.

Yet at the end of leveling, a level 80 from before the NPE has the same power as a level 80 from after the NPE, assuming same gear and same traits. If you end up at the same spot at the end, it’s not a power creep.

Or is it, while leveling, chars get powerful in chunks and not dribbles, then maybe it causes problems while leveling? Is that what you are saying? That’s still not power creep where over the years, max level characters reach higher levels and get stronger, (like WoW where the current max is level 100) since maxed level chars with the same gear and traits are equal to max level chars from before the NPE.

(Actually I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing as I’m using the accepted definition and it seems you using your own definition where it’s not about max level characters, who with each new content release get ever stronger gear and in most cases relevel to a new max level (like WoW and how it has people relevel and regear with each expansion).

Astral, I’m using a definition that was used extensively on this very forum in two developer-led discussions about progression. It does not seem to fit with what wikipedia says it means, and yet it was good enough to go unchallenged during both progression CDI threads. I’m sorry for the confusion, but it’s how those terms were used then.

I want to say that I spent about 170 on one of the Halloween weapons this year. The Halloween set was a good investment, imo. 5 skins for a return of 5 tickets, and I actively wanted four of the skins, anyway.

The only problem I have with Aetherpath is the time investment required isn’t rewarded in any significant manner. If the guaranteed rewards were buffed to reflect that it’s not the same as running a mindless CoF, then I think it’s likely this path would see more players.

You think mesmer portals are being used in an unintended way on jumping puzzles? I’m pretty sure that Anet has had over two years to fix or, at the very least, comment upon this being unintended. And I know for a fact that I’ve ported people with Anet tags to Troll’s End.

If Angry Joe was the reviewer that made you want to try the game, you should know that his review is horribly outdated.

Don’t you get those when you buy the heroic edition of the game?

Vayne.8563:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Hmmm. Power creep is a term in MMOs that mean successive expansions/content of a game have increased levels and more powerful gear, such as WoW’s player’s need to get better gear with each new expansion, causing old content and maps to become outdated and too easy to play in. For example, dungeons that originally required a full team become so easy with the player’s increase in power that they become soloable. The traditional meaning has nothing to do with how skills are handed out while leveling.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/06/the-soapbox-the-problem-with-power-creep-and-progression/

Power creep refers to vertical progression. Having access to more of your abilities does make you more powerful. This post (particularly the last paragraph) is what I was talking about, and I just spent an hour dredging through Nike’s post history to find it- it was a plainswurm and not a moa. Having access to 1 weapon skill is much weaker than having access to all 5. Thus, it introduced a power creep that previously didn’t exist.

/shrug. In that case all games have power creep, as you are now defining it. All chars start off with minimal skills and unlock more skills as they progress. Guild Wars 1 had this all along and Guild Wars 2 also had this since the beginning as you had to unlock weapon skills by getting new weapons and restarting the learning of them from autoattack. Utility, elite skills and traits didn’t unlock till later levels also.

However, that’s not the way that term is defined (google it) which is why I asked.

By the way, you might want to read up on the definition of vertical progression also.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/05/mmo-mechanics-comparing-vertical-and-horizontal-progression/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really

Yes, all games have a power creep, even GW2 prior to the NPE. Which is why I stated it introduced even more of a power creep.

Okay I have a question then.

There have been for a long time, people on these forums asking for progression. Is there a way to give people progression without power creep?

I mean in Guild Wars 1 we were all far far more powerful after the Eye of the North skills came in with technobabble and pain inverter. When Nightfall came out before that, necros were far more powerful with necrosis. But without that advancement, how do you appease the people who play to see progression?

67 pages… Go.

Oh, look. Double fractals again. Obviously working as intended.

Draknar.5748:

lordkrall.7241:

silly and immersion breaking weapons everywhere.

This can’t possibly be anyone’s opinion. Considering the silly, immersion breaking skins that exist outside of SAB…

I think a weapon skin that is being populated/generated via some Asuran computer technology is far less immersion breaking than a bow that shoots rainbow unicorns, a disco ball mace, or heck even a greatsword that allows you to see into some other dimension that also changes dimensions based on time of day (still not sure what the twilight/sunrise/eternity skins are referencing, is it heaven/hell does Tyrian lore even have heaven and hell?)

Uhh… twilight and sunrise are both times of day, and eternity is a concept of “forever” that has nothing to do with heaven or hell. The skins visually reflect morning and evening, as well as the night sky, in the case of eternity.

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Hmmm. Power creep is a term in MMOs that mean successive expansions/content of a game have increased levels and more powerful gear, such as WoW’s player’s need to get better gear with each new expansion, causing old content and maps to become outdated and too easy to play in. For example, dungeons that originally required a full team become so easy with the player’s increase in power that they become soloable. The traditional meaning has nothing to do with how skills are handed out while leveling.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/06/the-soapbox-the-problem-with-power-creep-and-progression/

Power creep refers to vertical progression. Having access to more of your abilities does make you more powerful. This post (particularly the last paragraph) is what I was talking about, and I just spent an hour dredging through Nike’s post history to find it- it was a plainswurm and not a moa. Having access to 1 weapon skill is much weaker than having access to all 5. Thus, it introduced a power creep that previously didn’t exist.

/shrug. In that case all games have power creep, as you are now defining it. All chars start off with minimal skills and unlock more skills as they progress. Guild Wars 1 had this all along and Guild Wars 2 also had this since the beginning as you had to unlock weapon skills by getting new weapons and restarting the learning of them from autoattack. Utility, elite skills and traits didn’t unlock till later levels also.

However, that’s not the way that term is defined (google it) which is why I asked.

By the way, you might want to read up on the definition of vertical progression also.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/02/05/mmo-mechanics-comparing-vertical-and-horizontal-progression/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really

Yes, all games have a power creep, even GW2 prior to the NPE. Which is why I stated it introduced even more of a power creep.

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

Hmmm. Power creep is a term in MMOs that mean successive expansions/content of a game have increased levels and more powerful gear, such as WoW’s player’s need to get better gear with each new expansion, causing old content and maps to become outdated and too easy to play in. For example, dungeons that originally required a full team become so easy with the player’s increase in power that they become soloable. The traditional meaning has nothing to do with how skills are handed out while leveling.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/11/06/the-soapbox-the-problem-with-power-creep-and-progression/

Power creep refers to vertical progression. Having access to more of your abilities does make you more powerful. This post (particularly the last paragraph) is what I was talking about, and I just spent an hour dredging through Nike’s post history to find it- it was a plainswurm and not a moa. Having access to 1 weapon skill is much weaker than having access to all 5. Thus, it introduced a power creep that previously didn’t exist.

lordkrall.7241:

Zietlogik.6208:

Apparently they don’t want players to actually enjoy content they make for extended periods of time.

They would much prefer us to have gem store garbage, mini grinding festivals and silverwastes farming to tie us over….they don’t care about their playerbase, and they can see their playerbase is starting to care less about them in return.

And yet there were parts of the playerbase that hated SAB and wanted it out of the game as soon as it was added.
Why should one part of the playerbase be more important than the others?

I hate Lornar’s Pass, but it isn’t out of the game. Why should the playerbase that likes Lornar’s Pass be more important than the playerbase that doesn’t?

Astral Projections.7320:

Guhracie.3419:

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

Snip

Power creep? I must be missing something. How does the New Player Experience cause level 80s to be stronger?

By doling out skills in small chunks, and later in the experience. I thought that would be fairly obvious.

EDIT: I’m using Nike’s infamous “Moa test” from the CDI threads. If at level 80, you can kill a moa faster than you could at level 1, that’s a power creep.

I’d like to, once again, air my major issues with the NPE, and share how it continues to impact my gaming.

It introduced another power creep. In both progression CDI threads, one thing that was stated over and over again was that a power creep was unwanted. There were tons of suggestions for other systems of progression, but it was nearly unanimous that adding power imbalances to the game wasn’t a really fun option.

It takes things away in order to make leveling seem more rewarding when it sparingly doles them back out. Pushing early game progression to end-game isn’t an acceptable substitute for end game. And, frankly, it’s unnecessary, given the successes you’ve had in Dry Top and Silverwastes.

It was the final nail in the leveling coffin, for me. I just got a second character from level 1-80 since last April’s feature patch (first since the NPE), and I used at least 50 tomes to do it. I want to be able to play my characters, not grind to get to a level that I can. I really cannot emphasize enough how much of a selling point this was to me, when I bought the game.

You can say it only effects the first twenty levels until you’re blue in the face, but it’s effected way more than that, for me.

I was thinking that Bonetti’s was closer to the lovestruck guard. My mistake.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

A lesson can be learned from this thread. The idea is similar to what happened in World War 2. One group of people felt what they were doing was in the right, while the majority of the world was against them. In the end, US won. Pun intended.

Yeah, this is clearly… uh. A paragraph of something. Godwin’s law, ahoy.

You must not be familiar with how the media works…

Basaltface.2786:

that rapier looks actually more impressive then most bladed legendaries… and im not even sorry to say it. 10/10 will buy (2 times.. my woman gets one too)

It looks too much like Bonetti’s Rapier for me to be all that impressed.

Part of the issue is that people who are coming to the zone specifically to do Fire Elemental and Steam Ogre often don’t zone in until the first pre has already started. I think it’s terribly inconsiderate to do Steam Ogre right before FE, because it is common understanding that you do FE and then you do steam ogre. It really seems like you’re setting yourself up to be harassed, and then acting wounded when you are.

I just know that I’m going to add you to my blocked list so that we’re less likely to be paired up in the same instance.

lordkrall.7241:

Keep in mind that you also get a bunch for doing the Mystic Forger Daily when that is available, so the actual number is higher than the 20 you suggest.

I would assume the reason to why they lowered the supply was that it was way too easy/cheap to get the coins, which were supposed to be part of expensive/hard to get recipes.

I’ve only ever gotten one out of doing the mystic forger daily.

Another reason it’s less of an issue than reducing the number of laurels, for example, or karma, is that mystic coins are a tradable commodity. They’re not account bound.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Hey Mescaline: I’m really sorry that what should have been a great experience for you has turned into misery. (And by the way: your English is fine.)

I feel some of your pain. I was holding out for 6,000 gold (a price I thought worthy of the skin) and I kick myself for not selling when it was worth “only” 5,000 gp.

As you have discovered, high-ticket items follow different market rules than most of us are used to. The original Legendaries are in a downward cycle now, with the announcement that HoT (the GW2 expac) will include new ways of acquiring precursors (and it seems like new legendary skins). And Eternity follows a different pattern altogether, as its creation unlocks skins for two legendaries, so its always going to lose value more quickly than other legendaries. (And, annoyingly, it gains value more slowly, too.)

If you do feel up to logging into the game, whisper me or PM me here and maybe we can discuss some options for taking some of the sting out of getting undercut by so many so quickly…and perhaps even figuring out a way to relist your Eternity, without having to grind for the 200g you’d need to do so.

Once again, I’m sorry you ran into something that turned your beautiful new shiny into a miserable pile of gooey pixels.

This is such a kind response! I also wanted to say that your English is fine, and had to comment on this. Ill, I’m sorry I have but one +1 to give.

Eric.6109:

Guhracie.3419:

It is just beyond time to say something about what is going to be changed. It was ridiculous that we waited for four months to get acknowledgement that our feedback was being heard by anyone official at ANET, and then another five months on top of that before we heard that traits were, in fact, going to be changed. For sure. And now we’re heading into a weekend, with no further word about the system, after a month of further silence.

Anet, all you had to do was reduce the cost of traits while you were figuring out what to do next. That’s it. That would have solved so many problems. The fact that it still hasn’t happened isn’t instilling me with any confidence in the new-new system. Not even a teensy, tiny, bit.

83 pages (90, counting this thread), over 10 months, and smoke and mirrors is the best you can muster? Really?

Nobody said our feedback was heard. The did, however say that we are super cool for posting feedback.

As far as Anet is involved, they only react to their precious matrices. They made a deal with that guy/company that basically nullified (in their minds) the need to communicate with players at all because now they have nice spreadsheets that tell them everything they need to know.

That is why I don’t care for HoT right now and certainly not planing to buy it when it’s released because we are going to have the same attitude, but with extra humidity. Maybe when they start treating their players as valued customers

Four months after the original trait thread was started, the first developer response was this from Isaiah Cartwright. In it, he does acknowledge that good points are being raised in the thread, which translates, to me personally, that (at the very least) someone has heard them. That’s my inference, anyway.

I’m not a fan of their communication or how they’ve handled this situation, but I don’t think there’s a need to overlook what has been done in order to be appalled at it.

Jski.6180:

The grotto (i think) in LA that was opened up from Scarlet attk.

The hidden grotto was always there. But it’s a fun spot, for sure.

Coddler’s Cove in Timberline.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Wolfheart.1879:

On the subject of skill points to buy traits – it depends on the cost. At the moment the skill points cost is the most prohibitive part of the cost to buy them – to unlock all traits for a character costs more skill points than there are skill challenges on the map. Add that to the cost of unlocking skills, it can be prohibitive at the moment.

Some do have tons of skill points not in use, some don’t, and with the current sp cost, they likely won’t have tons for long. It’s a question of balance there. At the moment, and for many it is just too high.

The question though, is whether it’s truly necessary to have ALL of a given class’s traits at the same time. Find the traits that you look like you’ll want for your build once you reach 80, and work on obtaining those. Find traits that may work better? Go unlock them. You arent required to buy any of the traits. If you have the gold and skill points, sure you can, but it’s not a requirement to buy them.

Additionally, skill points are hardly the difficult thing to come across as you depict. Events such as silverwastes, Teq, and the “krait lab” event near teq, have enough champion bags as loot, that you could potentially walk away with dozens of skill point scrolls in an afternoon.

If it’s not necessary to have them, the game shouldn’t have given all the traits to us for the first two years of release. And having accounts grandfathered in shouldn’t have been a thing, also, if it is truly unnecessary, and not a big deal to unlock them.

If I’d made my characters post trait-change and I wanted to buy access to even HALF of their traits, it would cost me almost 2000 skill points. I want to say 1960 was the exact number. I’ve never even had a full stack of skill scrolls.

And honestly, the argument that traits aren’t necessary for a complete character is just terrible because it makes the entire build system seem superfluous, which it isn’t.

• 36
• In a happy, long-term, committed relationship
• Met my significant other in a text-based game before the dawn of time.
• Battle with depression and anxiety, symptoms of PTSD. (Diagnosed, too.)
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• I love art that inexplicably moves me, in particular.
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• I always try to apologize when I’m in the wrong, or if I’ve caused hurt.
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• I am allergic to matching socks.

Killface.1896:

No grind really he can get full exo gear in less than a week that is almost as good as ascended gear ;D

Unlocking traits, however….

That’ll be barrels of fun.

That’s weird, because my keybinds are where I want them. My AA is number pad 4, for example. The physical location of the skill doesn’t impact how you bind the keys.

Galphar.3901:

phys.7689:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

sorudo.9054:

they did ones say that they are planning on releasing the core systems before HoT, this includes specialization and masteries.

I don’t think people care anymore about that. I think they care more about the time it took to fix.

i think people are most concerned with knowing exactly what it is, and giving feedback on it before it becomes set in stone, and they have to wait a year for a revision.

basically they dont want to be stuck with a bad system for a year, like the past has shown us is a possibility when the devs dont get feedback

I wouldn’t say the devs didn’t get any feedback after the 83 page 10+ month old thread we gave them before this 7 page 1 month old thread. It seems more likely that our feedback was ignored.

No, what phys is saying is that the first new trait system was implemented without gathering any feedback first, and it seems prudent to avoid making that mistake again.

Bloody Knight Jack.2546:

I’m pretty sure the trait system is more along the lines of a feature pack then expansion since it would affect the whole game.

Also I would like to know more about guild halls since I have been hoping for those.

I would normally agree with you, Jack, but this was recently posted in the 83 page traits megathread.

Notice:

We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Perhaps it’s premature to discuss traits at all. If you feel that’s the case, please simply step away from the subject until you have enough on which to base a meaningful post.

[…]

At this point, if you would care to discuss the topic of traits, please feel free to post.

Think it’s time for a reminder about the point of the thread, as well as gaile’s reminder to back away from the thread if you dont have anything meaningful to contribute.

This is getting really meta for me, but is the above post considered meaningful and on-topic?

Did we ever receive clarification on what there actually is to discuss that could not have been safely covered in the original thread? These are genuine questions that I legitimately do not know the answers to. Thanks in advance.

lordkrall.7241:

Snow.2048:

So you choosing to delete these things knowing full well they would be lost is comparable to buying something that was rendered irrelevant?

That can be turned around as well.

We bought the coin knowing full well that the content would not be available at all times.

There was a reasonable expectation that the content would be brought back at regular intervals. This is such a terrible argument that I can’t believe even you are making it.

If you got to use your “lifetime membership” to a gym for a month, then it closed down “for maintenance,” you’re telling me telling me that you don’t feel like you should have access to some of the facilities after two years? Yeah, please do keep turning these arguments around, because they’re only helping my case.

ChyldeMyst.5098:

Oh for please. No one actually paid for the Super Adventure Box. It’s a mini-game, a periodic thing like the Zephyrite Market and the holiday festivals. And if it’s been over a year since their last iteration, maybe they’re trying to fix something that prompted a lot of complaints.

Honestly, my only complaint is that I can’t sell the tokens I have for the bloody Box, because it’s my least favorite content. But saying that ANET is “stealing customers’ money” just because they haven’t activated a particular optional fluff content in over a year? That’s a bit much. There are features that were promised pre-release that I’m still waiting to see implemented at all, but I whole-heartedly believe I’ve gotten my money’s worth out of this game, and will happily put more into it when I have it to invest. The SAB will come back eventually. If that’s all you’re playing for, you’re in the wrong game.

Yeah, I’d like to reiterate that the infinite continue coin was a real thing that they sold for 600 gems. The content was active for about 3 weeks while it was being sold, and it has been 17 months since that time. All requests for refunds have been denied, to my knowledge.

I’d rather find out about what they’re doing with the trait system so that I can know if I should care about the expansion at all.

It is just beyond time to say something about what is going to be changed. It was ridiculous that we waited for four months to get acknowledgement that our feedback was being heard by anyone official at ANET, and then another five months on top of that before we heard that traits were, in fact, going to be changed. For sure. And now we’re heading into a weekend, with no further word about the system, after a month of further silence.

Anet, all you had to do was reduce the cost of traits while you were figuring out what to do next. That’s it. That would have solved so many problems. The fact that it still hasn’t happened isn’t instilling me with any confidence in the new-new system. Not even a teensy, tiny, bit.

83 pages (90, counting this thread), over 10 months, and smoke and mirrors is the best you can muster? Really?