Guild Wars 2

BentoDetective.6491:

Astral Projections.7320:

I leveled 9 chars to 80 the old pre NPE/trait system way and enjoyed it. I’m saving up tomes now in case they give us a new profession/race so the new trait system will have the least impact on me. I’ll still have to do it but at least I can power through and get the minimum needed for one build. (So much for the new trait system encouraging experimentation).

Yes, that is a great plan. But the tomes shouldn’t be the answer to the leveling process. Not saying they’re bad, but the NPE just doesn’t cut it when the old system was better. The new system locks many, many things. Restrictions don’t lead to experimentation. The NPE isn’t as new-player friendly as Anet claims. If anything, it tests our patience.

I think you’ll find that Astral is in agreement with your assessment, here. If anything, the user’s post was meant to shine a light on the very points you raise, and I agree. It is appalling to have to find workarounds for what was previously my favorite part of the game.

My feedback: Stop with the narrowing of objectives. You know how hearts have multiple options for completing them? The reason that was designed that way is to allow for flexibility. Flexibility is a good thing. It’s part of what sold me on this game.

Worblehat.8697:

Julischka Bean.7491:

or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Apologies for the tangent, but why are SP the part people complain about? For me it’s the gold cost that’s prohibitive. I have more SP than I can ever possibly use, and get more all the time whenever my 80 “levels” (not to mention those from exploring maps I haven’t completed yet).

I’d think that experienced players wouldn’t have much problem with either part of the cost (aside from the historical anger that the cost used to be over 10x cheaper) – and they’re probably what the costs were designed around. Is there some other important SP sink that level 80s need to save for?

Skillpoints are character bound, particularly when you’re talking about a character at level 80 “leveling” again. This is about characters that are leveling up, and those characters need skill points for actual skills. Unless you’re suggesting that traits should be accessible after level 80, which simply doesn’t work for most professions. Also, the fact that unlocking all the traits (which previously cost less than 3g) now requires more skill points than there are skill challenges by over 150 is ridiculous. Couple that with the fact that there are components for mystic forge recipes (for actual long-term goals) that are sold for skill points, yeah, it’s a strain on veterans who don’t tend to pvp or wvw heavily.

Being the best in PvE means having more gold than Wanze and Smooth Penguin combined.

krapmyself.2817:

Anybody with a character prior to the system change has nothing to worry about, except for getting that last t3 trait, which isn’t a big deal since most are useless for most classes anyway.

Until they go to make a new alt or two. The way this was rolled out has dampened the outcry against it if they’d put everyone on a level playing field. If I’d had to unlock traits for my 11 level 80 characters, I’d have uninstalled.

Any character created since April will have all 65 traits to unlock. With the same 65 tasks. Including:

• Zone complete Blazeridge Steppes for a single adept tier trait!
• Complete obsidian sanctum for the fall damage reduction trait! (Yeah, that’s hilarious, guys…)
• Kill the grub in wvw!
• Complete a level 70 personal story step! (which is now actually level-gated, so you actually can’t even attempt this task until you’re ten levels above where the trait is unlocked)

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

First off, read my entire post. This means every word.

In Guild Wars, you obtained skills in three ways:

• By quest
• By vendor
• By skill capture

In Guild Wars 2, you obtain skills:

• By quest/task (you don’t get them from NPC’s)
• By vendor

The methods of acquisition are very similar. I’ll clarify one thing though. Similar does not mean the same. The two games are vastly different from each other so you’re not going to have the exact same system where the methods are exactly the same.

Read my words. The words are important.
In GW2, you obtain skills one way:

• With skill points

In GW2, you obtain traits:

• With skill points and coin currency
• Individual tasks for each of the 65 traits, which are the same across all professions

I stated that the system was similar. Nowhere did I state that traits and skills were the same. How about instead of trying to nitpick minute differences between the two, you read by post?

Uh, because your post explicitly states that you obtain skills by task or a vendor, and that is blatantly false, not nitpicking. Could you actually read your posts before you announce others are having reading comprehension fails?

Well that was an error on my part. The GW2 portion was supposed to be traits as that’s what this thread was about. I’ll fix it. Please read it again and let me know if what I was saying isn’t clear.

I’ve deleted my posts referencing the error. Thanks for the fix.

I guess I’m not sure what you’re debating about with Indigo specifically, because the overall sense I’m getting from you both is that the attempt at a similar system is clearly lacking in some pretty crucial ways.

This new trait system is 9 months old.

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

Huh, it’s strange that when traits were accessible, I was often spending a great deal more of my time having fun in-game. There are other ways to implement goal-oriented content in the game without taking away things that were previously (relatively) freely given.

I’m not a fan of this design philosophy that seems very pervasive right now; to restrict and time-gate old systems in order to make them seem more rewarding.

krapmyself.2817:

When it first came out as an April fools joke, people’s heads exploded.

The next April Fool’s day paid homage to this fact, by exploding everyone’s heads.

minbariguy.7504:

IndigoSundown.5419:

@minbariguy

Special thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve restored some of my lost faith in the Minbari … err, humanity.

LOL. In Valen’s name, I thank you. ;-)

Or, as I like to say, “In Jeff's name!” /tangent

More Trahaerne poetry! Especially in the style of other poets! e.e. (Well, his last name was filtered out, but he’s known for his eccentric use of syntax and grammar), Robert Frost and Elizabeth Barrett Browning next, please! And more haiku. Because there will never be enough snarky haiku in my world.

DeceiverX.8361:

Seera.5916:

Chrispy’s post at that point was made before the OP edited their post to add in a clarification.

The post did not originally state that context would be used and some people inferred that a post would be ignored simply because one of the words was used.

Chrispy’s point about Folks was that the word is only offensive if used inappropriately and that several words in Guhracie’s post were not words that are always offensive (Chrispy did say in a later post that some of the words were always offensive).

Chrispy wasn’t saying that the word Folks is offensive and shouldn’t be used. It was just an example used to make a point.

Definitely makes a lot more sense. I recall Chrispy posting with more… subtlety in the past, so it would certainly explain the obscenity of the post in regards to what the OP has now.

I’d just like to note that I did always say that context would be used, it just wasn’t highlighted to the same degree it is now. My post always said that I’d disregard the words when they were used as slurs, which is pretty definitive context, I feel. That said, enough people took issue with it that a clarification was necessary, and that’s on me, and it’s fine. I’d rather be clear than misunderstood.

naiasonod.9265:

Guhracie.3419:

Djinn.9245:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”

Or do you see it differently?

I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people who replied to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.

Djinn, I’m sorry! I meant to include in my previous post that you were not arguing against my reasoning.

To those who have contributed in good faith, good humor, and clear intentions: Thank you all. Regardless of if you agree with my original post and/or its intent, if you’ve added constructively to the discussion, I truly appreciate it.

I’d like to make mention of a couple of things about my original post: I did edit to clarify that the terms will be taken in context, so if people would stop acting as if that’s not my intention, that would be swell. Also, even though I added in that clarification, my post always said that I’d be ignoring the usage of those terms when they were used as attacks. So, just for the record, I did not backpedal on my stance. I always stated that it was meant to be taken in the larger context.

I’m not adding every term listed because, just as some of you have issues with my list, I don’t necessarily believe every suggestion belongs on my personal list. I’m in no way trying to impose my personal list on anyone else; it’s just a jumping off point. I have tried to add the ones that I feel I overlooked (fanboy, in particular!).

I’m still unconvinced that you’ve got a bright future trying to go about this in the fashion you are. I can only speak for myself, but as someone that agrees with the gist of what I think you mean by it, I shake my head at the method.

You’ve made yourself a very easy target for mockery and dismissal. The confrontational candor of the post would not compel me to go ‘Oh, I should care what this person has to say and think about his/her points’ if I were a neutral party, let alone natively disposed in a contrary view.

If I had a contrary view, I might perceive this as a declaration of war, and you would lose that war, because you cannot win it under these or any circumstances.

In sum, you’re picking a fight (whether you mean to or not) that you cannot win. No amount of pledges or declarations made like this will make the behavior you deem problematic go away, change or…anything at all.

At best, you achieve nothing. At worst, you get a few kittens kicking it and guffawing because you can’t do anything except silence yourself anyway.

And really, do you suppose that the people often couching their points and allegations in such terms are going to be anything but pleased that you’ve essentially promised to go away if they start making digital squiggles you don’t approve of?

You’ve told them how to get rid of you. Little else.

Why would you do that?

I haven’t promised to go away. I’ve promised that I won’t engage in word wars of that nature. Those words won’t get a reaction or a response out of me. How is that not “winning” (insofar as one can win such things, obviously)?

I agree with the original list here, but I’m going to try to discuss things that weren’t mentioned in it and are, perhaps, more recent changes.

-The compass and its various settings.
-Filters in the trading post finally.
-The Marionette fight.
-Labyrinthine Cliffs
-Reward tracks in PvP

Again, I’m a huge fan of the artwork, the combat system, the wardrobe and many other things that have already been mentioned, but this speaks to Anet’s more recent work.

Djinn.9245:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Djinn — do you sense Guhracie is “labeling?” He mentions his position was to not participate when certain words are used as a slur. If you feel he’s making his personal choice too hurriedly, it’s a harmless choice, as he is choosing not to participate. He’s not saying he’ll get into the thread and flame the forum member, or that he’ll report and hope they get smited by all the powers of The Six Gods. He’s just saying “If someone uses slurs, I’m out.”

Or do you see it differently?

I completely agree with Guhracie and said so shortly after the OP. In my post above yours here, I’m speaking about the various people who replied to the OP defending their right to negatively label (slur) – especially those thinking it is fine to call someone a “complainer” if they had a post(s) in which they were complaining.

Djinn, I’m sorry! I meant to include in my previous post that you were not arguing against my reasoning.

To those who have contributed in good faith, good humor, and clear intentions: Thank you all. Regardless of if you agree with my original post and/or its intent, if you’ve added constructively to the discussion, I truly appreciate it.

I’d like to make mention of a couple of things about my original post: I did edit to clarify that the terms will be taken in context, so if people would stop acting as if that’s not my intention, that would be swell. Also, even though I added in that clarification, my post always said that I’d be ignoring the usage of those terms when they were used as attacks. So, just for the record, I did not backpedal on my stance. I always stated that it was meant to be taken in the larger context.

I’m not adding every term listed because, just as some of you have issues with my list, I don’t necessarily believe every suggestion belongs on my personal list. I’m in no way trying to impose my personal list on anyone else; it’s just a jumping off point. I have tried to add the ones that I feel I overlooked (fanboy, in particular!).

Astral Projections.7320:

Veydar.5017:

Zaxares.5419:

The Ambrite and Carapace sets say hi.

Granted, they are locked behind a fair bit of grind, but you can’t buy them with gold, so it’s not locked behind the gemstore.

The OP asked for armor rewarded for dungeon completion. From which dungeons do I get the ones you mentioned?

:p

It was possibly a response to this statement by the OP.

“I don’t think I’ve seen a single new weapon/armorset from doing PvE that isn’t some 0.00093871%-Please-Buy-Gems-To-Afford-It rare item. All of the new looks have been on the gemstore, and some of those armors and weapons even recycles pieces/textures from old armors lol.”

Where Zaxares was pointing out that there are weapons and armor that are not bought with gold or from the gemstore.

(Also the new pinnacle weapons from achievement chests)

Also, sovereign, radiant/hellfire skins, and zenith weapons.

Gaile Gray.6029:

As I see it, and I have been actively reading the post, Guhracie had noble intentions in posting this and he offered a personal position on the use of inflammatory words when they are (mis)used in specific ways.

This shouldn’t have devolved into the snarkfest it has become. This isn’t a semantics debate. It’s not the platform for someone to mock, insult, and abuse other forum members because he/she disagrees with the position stated. It’s a personal position and you’re welcome to join in, or not. But arguing with the stated position it is like arguing with someone because you like salmon and they do not. There’s not “right” or “wrong” for it’s a personal opinion. Just as “I don’t intend to participate in certain threads” is a personal choice.

When one thread had more than half a dozen warranted reports and more that could have been made, well, obviously there’s a problem. In this case, the problem seems to be not with the original post but with forum members who are unwilling or unable to remain quiet on a subject that does not require or benefit from their input.

Please don’t post if you’re being argumentative, insulting, or pedantic. Please feel free to move to the next thread and contribute where you have a contribution to make and leave this thread for those who wish to join in the pledge or discuss the parameters of the pledge in a respectful and contributing manner.

Thank you for this, Ms. Gray, and your follow-up is spot on. “I’m out!” rather than “I hope toads eat your face!”

Dave.2536:

Guhracie.3419:

Okay, as I previously indicated, I’m talking about ignoring posts that contain ad hominem attacks, containing those specific words I listed. I understand that wasn’t clear in my initial post, but it should be clear now, yes? Can we agree that what I am proposing is not the same thing as an ad hominem attack?

If you’re proposing to ignore posts that contain ad hominem attacks, that’s fine. But you seem to be going by the presumption that every use of any of those words in the “list” (which itself seems to be controvertial in this thread) is itself an ad hominem.

Most people are okay with the first part. The controversy is that you seem to believe in the second.

Either way, perhaps a clarification of your OP is in order.

Would you care to suggest how my current clarification is lacking? I’m just not sure how I can make:

I’m also not saying that these words are ignored without context, I’m saying that when they’re slung around as slurs, I’m not going to engage with that post.

indicate what you’re suggesting more clearly.

Dave.2536:

Olvendred.3027:

You seem to flit from argument to argument a lot. You stated it was “the equivalent of ad hominem” and then aggressively defended that, including by saying he was dismissing it “based on the person rather than the post.” You have now abandoned that argument, in favour of calling it cherrypicking.

Make up your mind.

Oh, and the words in a post are its content. I’m not sure how else you could define the content of a forum post.

Also note that the OP did not suggest banning any words.

I abandoned nothing. OP is cherrypicking words to justify dismissing entire posts. Ad hominem is dismissing a post based not on its content but on its writer. I don’t see how going by one single word is anything less than making a judgment on the writer and ignoring the content.

PS: stop taking things too literally, like “ban”. I don’t see how anyone could naturally misinterpret the context of its use (I’ll spell it out for you just in case: “OP, should we throw ‘cherrypick’ into your list as well?”)

Okay, as I previously indicated, I’m talking about ignoring posts that contain ad hominem attacks, containing those specific words I listed. I understand that wasn’t clear in my initial post, but it should be clear now, yes? Can we agree that what I am proposing is not the same thing as an ad hominem attack?

Zera Allimatti.2541:

JustTrogdor.7892:

I think the OP is asking that we, as forum members try to avoid using negative labels towards others just because we don’t agree with them. There is nothing wrong with that request. There are several posters here that as soon as their post is seen in a thread people respond with “hater” or “white knight” no matter what they post. Often times people just throw the label out there without even giving feedback to the topic at hand. They just say things like, “Here is the hater/white knight.” They just see the forum posters name and toss out a label. I agree it gets out of hand at times and doesn’t lead to positive discussion.

Yes, but the OP is also talking about not taking part in a discussion just because it has one or two words that the OP doesn’t like. Take me, for example. I hate Quaggans. By the OP’s logic, I should not engage in any discussion that has to do with Quaggans just because quaggans. That’s a fool’s errand right there. There have been genuine discussions in this forum involving quaggans, and I’ve participated in a few. Oh gosh if I type Quaggan one more time I might puke. I better stop.

No, I’m talking about not engaging with people who engage in ad hominem attacks. I’m not talking about ignoring entire discussions, I’m talking about refusing to engage with people who can’t resist the urge to name-call. I’m talking about standing up and saying that I’m not going to be using these attacks, and I hope others will think about avoiding them as well. I’m trying to shine a light on the fact that these things are the go-to way to completely derail entire threads, without posting anything at all of substance, and we should not condone that.

Also, I hate quaggans.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

Guhracie.3419:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I Zera Allimatti.2541 do pledge to keep doing what I am doing and not give any power to mere words on my screen. It does not matter whether someone calls me a white knight, a whiner, entitled, toxic, or any other ‘slur’ you can think of. These words have no affect on me. It is my sincere hope that one day, more people will be like me and be able to shrug off mere words on a screen like a breeze on a typical day. Use it to cool off instead of getting worked up.

Long story short: I do not support your little pledge and your desire to limit free speech. This sort of mentality is what creates environments where any word can be considered offensive. Please stop giving words so much power over you, you are ruining it for the rest of us.

These words are only offensive because you yourself made them offensive. Stop doing this to yourself. You should have more self worth than that. Come to the light! I have faith in you! Take back the power you gave them over you! /empower

…where does my pledge talk about my self-worth? The whole point of it is that these words don’t have power over me, because I won’t engage with them at all. They are inherently offensive in the context of this forum, and I choose not to participate. It’s extremely weird that you’ve made acting with civility into an issue of either political correctness or my self-esteem, or some combination of both.

It doesn’t specifically talk about self-worth, you just come across as someone who is easily offended.

Ad hominem attacks do offend me, but not in the sense you’re describing. I admit that sometimes I get hurt by words, and that’s my own issue, and has almost nothing to do with why I began this thread. I am offended by how these sorts of things are flung around in an attempt to derail or entirely cease actual discussion with other people. I’ve tried to describe slurs that are thrown at all types of posters, but I obviously know the ones that are usually applied to me a little bit more intimately than some of the others. This is not about defending myself. I can and generally do defend myself directly, if I feel the need. This is not an attempt to be passive-aggressive. This is just pointing out that these things are not constructive, and I won’t participate.

Thanks for the attempt to empower me, but it is truly not necessary.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I Zera Allimatti.2541 do pledge to keep doing what I am doing and not give any power to mere words on my screen. It does not matter whether someone calls me a white knight, a whiner, entitled, toxic, or any other ‘slur’ you can think of. These words have no affect on me. It is my sincere hope that one day, more people will be like me and be able to shrug off mere words on a screen like a breeze on a typical day. Use it to cool off instead of getting worked up.

Long story short: I do not support your little pledge and your desire to limit free speech. This sort of mentality is what creates environments where any word can be considered offensive. Please stop giving words so much power over you, you are ruining it for the rest of us.

These words are only offensive because you yourself made them offensive. Stop doing this to yourself. You should have more self worth than that. Come to the light! I have faith in you! Take back the power you gave them over you! /empower

…where does my pledge talk about my self-worth? The whole point of it is that these words don’t have power over me, because I won’t engage with them at all. They are inherently offensive in the context of this forum, and I choose not to participate. It’s extremely weird that you’ve made acting with civility into an issue of either political correctness or my self-esteem, or some combination of both.

I really thought phrasing this as a personal statement and encouraging others to do what they feel is right for them would deflect negativity. I really was trying to do a good thing, here.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Guhracie.3419:

Let’s do a little self moderation, folks.

Unfortunately, while I admire your intent, it will be ignored by the people it applies to. Name-calling tends to be their second nature if they cannot prove or validate a point. Let the moderators deal with that element instead.

I’m sure someone will come along and name-call you instead because of this.

Edit: It seems it already happened. . . .

I just thought it would be a good social experiment to see if anyone would be willing to join me in this, and perhaps make people think about how they frame their arguments. I’d like to leave it to the moderators, but it would be nice if we could do what we can, no? Additionally, I can’t talk about forum moderation directly, as it’s against the rule, but… well, some of these seem to slip through the cracks.

ofLegends.9853:

Seriously?

Want me to use a word other than the true one so I can avoid hurting your shiny feelings or something?

I don’t want you to do anything you’re not comfortable doing. I’m simply pledging my intentions.

Donari.5237:

A good list but I will debate “toxic.” I mean if it’s aimed at one person, as in “you are making a toxic post,” sure. But I think the term applies nicely to some overall behaviors discussed vis a vis champ train disputes and “fail farmers” versus “event completers.” Likewise “complainers” would need to be viewed in context to see if it were a slur meant to deride or a simple description of people with concerns to air.

So don’t be as draconian and undiscerning as the feline filter

That’s why I used the term “forum slur” and the term “ad hominim attacks;” I feel that’s pretty discerning.

I, Guhracie.3419, do pledge that I will not make use of the petty and demeaning go-to forum slurs. I also pledge that I will immediately disregard the entirety of any post making active use of these slurs, even if the overall opinion is in keeping with my own views. Henceforth, the following ad hominim attacks (and any variation thereof) will be ignored (and not used) by me:
White knight
fanboy
troll
shill
haters
whiners
complainers
entitled
toxic
QQ

Please feel free to add to this list, and I will keep it updated with my own personal pledge. Feel free to modify the pledge in any way you’d like, as long as it’s in keeping with the whole theme of making the forum a more positive place to be. Let’s do a little self moderation, folks.

EDIT: To add a few I agree with. I’m also not saying that these words are ignored without context, I’m saying that when they’re slung around as slurs, I’m not going to engage with that post.

So, wait, you’re telling me that mesmers and rangers still don’t have access to their basic profession skills when they start? That is four months worth of new players, hamstrung by this system. No wonder traits are still a mess. If it is taking an entire quarter of a year just to figure out how to give rangers and mesmers access to their class mechanics, I have severely overestimated how soon traits can be revamped.

Coming in Q4 2017: Rangers with pets!

Behellagh.1468:

-Traits

I’ll grant you this but it seems to be an offshoot of removing respec costs/locations. You can now respec your traits for free out of combat. It also adds traits as another reward for completing existing content.

-Dailies: removed choice of using Dailies in Festival Completion

No idea what you are getting at here.

This is what I have a major issue with. Why does there need to be a penalty for being able to have free retraiting from anywhere? It’s like we’ve come to expect that everything good always has something that bites us. That may be true in the real world, but it kind of stinks that it’s also the case here.

The last thing is about how the winterfest dailies don’t count toward the wintersday meta achievement. In other holiday festivals, dailies count toward the meta. And the meta has absolutely no flexibility in it, either. There are 11 required achievements for it.

I’ve been playing significantly less for a while, now. I can’t say if my decrease since the daily login system has been because of it, or because I’m busy for the holidays.

There are plenty of names still available. Names can have spaces, you know.

Behellagh.1468:

Is Personality even displayed anymore? Did they add it back and I simply didn’t notice?

Another totally wasted opportunity of a system, in my opinion. Unless they’ve hidden it somewhere completely unintuitive (something I wouldn’t put past them), I haven’t seen my game personality since April.

nGumball.1283:

Guhracie.3419:

nGumball.1283:

Delutia Aisyl.9538:

Dear Anet,
SAB has been closed for 15 months now. It’s also been 15 months since I’ve bought Gems. The latter number is going to keep increasing until the former number decreases.

Now think about all the players who will say the same about other features. Also, think about the dozens of players who believe that SAB isn’t series content and a mere waste of time.

You get a community that will never be statisfied which is actually the truth.
We like different things and the company can’t make everyone happy. Therefore they try to balance it up to have an overall positive community while keeping the profit coming in.

They’ve never sold anything on the gem store that was rendered utterly useless for 15 months, other than the infinite continue coin. And then refused to grant any refunds on it. But you keep making your straw man argument that they can’t please everyone. It keeps getting more convincing every single time.

It is indeed convinving.
Thanks for the credit.

You’re awesome at sarcasm! Two thumbs, way up.

nGumball.1283:

Delutia Aisyl.9538:

Dear Anet,
SAB has been closed for 15 months now. It’s also been 15 months since I’ve bought Gems. The latter number is going to keep increasing until the former number decreases.

Now think about all the players who will say the same about other features. Also, think about the dozens of players who believe that SAB isn’t series content and a mere waste of time.

You get a community that will never be statisfied which is actually the truth.
We like different things and the company can’t make everyone happy. Therefore they try to balance it up to have an overall positive community while keeping the profit coming in.

They’ve never sold anything on the gem store that was rendered utterly useless for 15 months, other than the infinite continue coin. And then refused to grant any refunds on it. But you keep making your straw man argument that they can’t please everyone. It keeps getting more convincing every single time.

You should read all the patch notes, even if you don’t read every news post.

Dasenthal.6520:

Always check your trait panel for how to get traits, not the reddit or even the wiki. If it’s so inconvenient I would encourage you to just buy.

Some of the unlocks are vague in the trait panel. And it’s an appalling state when a system is so inconvenient that you’ve tried to do it for days or weeks and you finally break down and buy a single trait for more than it used to cost to unlock 60 of them.

Andred.1087:

I implore you to take a step back from your delusions of self-importance and realize how completely unqualified you are to be telling an entire development studio that everything they are doing is wrong, despite all indications that they are doing just fine.

I fully expect to now be labelled as a “white knight” in a malicious and fallacy-ridden attempt to discredit my opinions, but time will tell who is right, and who is too stubborn to admit they’re wrong. I’ve already been through the whole process; hopefully all you naysayers will one day join me in realizing that ANet is not an incompetent gaggle of fools, and they might actually know what they’re doing.

You know, I’m of the opinion that the cry of “white knight” is a cop out in place of a well-reasoned response. But you sure seem to be flinging out insults either pre-emptively or in an attempt to attract the label, neither of which is helpful in making your point.

If you want people to hear you, maybe try not using the phrase “delusions of self-importance,” eh?

I was noticing it was disturbingly pole-dancing-esque, so Oxidia’s observation seems likely.

minbariguy.7504:

From the “What Anet does right” thread:

Gaile Gray.6029:

[SNIP]…I know the team is keenly aware of the desire for changes to traits, and they will have something to say on that subject when plans are more firmed up.

The mind. It boggles.

Edit for clarity: This is an example of the incredibly poor communication that ANet is so stubbornly adhering to. If only they weren’t so terrified of being held accountable for their own words, they might have had something to say in this thread by now.

This is not in any way an attack on Gaile. I think she does her job well. But the idea that after all this time their plans for traits aren’t even firm enough to make a post in the traits thread about how things are coming along is — as usual — disappointing.

And this sort of information should be available in a centralized location. It shouldn’t be something we’re hearing about from Reddit, from a spanish-speaking forum moderator, for example. Or something we might not have even heard about in a random thread that has no apparent link to traits. The post she quoted barely had anything to do with the trait system, in fact. It’s just… weird.

Absolutely nothing, until traits are fixed.

Eh, I don’t mind answering specific questions like these, because players are usually the best source of information in an overall sense to know what to prepare for. My issue is with people who come in and go, “Hey, been gone for a year, what’s new?” like I want to list out every little detail that’s changed. Patch notes exist, and while they’re terribly incomplete for GW2, they’re certainly more informative than anything I’d have to say on the topic.

Seireitou.9807:

How important is RNG in this game?
There’s quite a bit of RNG, but it looks like they’re working on the reward system overall.

How grindy is it to reach level cap?
Not terribly.

What is the wow factor of this game?
Aside from combat mechanics (you can actually move out of the way of attacks!), the visuals/art style. Also, the amount of customization in armor and dyes is pretty amazing. Add in things like jumping puzzles, being rewarded for exploration, and an amazing soundtrack. There have also been some really great large scale world events.

How hard is it to get OP gear in this game?
Gear isn’t really OP. It’s grindy to get the top tier of gear, but it’s not necessary except for specific styles of play.

How Pay2win is this game?
It’s not.

What are the bad things about this game?
The trait system. Lack of a roadmap for future releases. Events don’t scale properly with large crowds anymore. Bugs that have been left unfixed for years now.

Does this game give a real reason to keep playing even after I reach cap?
That depends on what it is you’re interested in. There’s no real endgame progression in the sense of raid/gear treadmills, but that’s part of what appeals to me, personally.

Don’t know any other questions but you get the idea.

I agree with others who’ve said you should just try it out for yourself. You’ve got to have an account to post here, so you might as well give it a go.

I’ve seen many players expressing the opinion that traits are entirely optional. The game is gutted for me right now. My holiday money went to other games. I wonder what their metrics say about the best/worst of 2014 thread.

Subdue.5479:

What you’re picking at here are balance issues, not “OMFG THE NEW DAILIES SUCK” issues.

This, right here, sums up what I have been trying to express all along. I do not think I’ve tried to promote any attitude that “OMFG THE NEW DAILIES SUCK LIFE AS WE KNOW IT IS OVER AAAAA” in any way, shape, or form.

I’m dismayed by the responses in other threads that seem directed at belittling this one. There’s no shortage of people trying to put words in other peoples’ mouths. And maybe I’m feeling a little thin-skinned right now, because the word “whiner” pointed in my general direction is making me unhappy. I know that name-calling is the most simplistic form of argument, but it’s really little comfort right now.

I’m tired of trying to express that the dailies are just a small part of a larger issue. But what I keep hearing, over and over again, is that I should be grateful for what I’ve been given, or simply move along. And I guess, at some point… maybe when this was implemented, or maybe when it became apparent that the trait system wasn’t going to get fixed, or maybe it was reading rabid vitriol today… I guess I realized that maybe GW2 is just a glorified chat room for me, now, and is no longer entertaining on its own merit. The people are what keep me coming back, and not the game, and it should be a combination of both.

Donari.5237:

Maybe you could have done the Good, the Pretty/Beautiful, the Bad, and the Ugly?

Eh, more categories are too confusing for new players.

Vayne.8563:

I want to know how come there are two negative categories, but only one positive category. It’s automatically biased, even if it’s cliche. That said:

That’s why I only had the two categories. I skipped the one that was basically “indifferent.”

heartless.6803:

Can somebody explain why the NPE is bad? I just see people saying it’s bad but why exactly? I don’t like the trait system, it’s stifling and prevents any sort of build experimentation. Forces you to look up which ones are worth getting for a generic cookie cutter build.

For me, personally, it is a combination of weapon skills and utility skill unlocks being pushed further into the process, a lack of a steady stream of skillpoints, the lock on downed and underwater skills, and the way the personal story can now only be done every 10 levels. Additionally, the personal story has been butchered, so there’s that, too.

Subdue.5479:

@Guhracie:

See, here’s the thing. The dailies for all three modes follow a similar pattern, with PvP probably being slightly more convenient for one-mode-only players. Take today’s for example:

PvE:
Activity Participation > Quick & Easy
Krytan Lumberer > Quick & Easy
Metrica Event Completer > Potentially time consuming
Frozen Maw > Potentially time consuming

WvW:
Master of Ruins > Quick and Easy
Land Claimer > Quick and Easy
Camp Capturer > Potentially time consuming
Tower Capturer > Potentially time consuming

PvP:
50 Rank Points > Quick and Easy
Point Defender > Quick and Easy
Guardian Winner > Potentially time consuming
Engineer Winner > Potentially time consuming (This one is especially time consuming for me as I’m terrible with engineer lol)

It’s not like PvE has been dealt some sort of unfair hand here. Players are being encouraged to experience different content all across the board here, and that’s good for the game.

Think back to the dailies of old. Were you encouraged to explore different game modes? No not really. Were you encouraged to explore new content within your preferred game mode? No not really. What were the old dailies actually accomplishing? What purpose did they serve? At most they were an incentive to log in, locked behind mundane, grindish content (kill 50 ambients???). That’s been turned into a login reward now, without the grind, leaving AP the only incentive for those who want to do the daily.

And let’s be frank here. It’s not choice that you’ve “lost,” it’s rewards. The two are not the same, and you have options for getting those rewards, and more. The path to them is just slightly different. With 2 of the dailies always being easy in each section, you really should be able to pop into a different mode for 2 minutes to get your third and earn yourself double what you were probably earning before in terms of rewards. It really is that easy. I guarantee that the it takes you a fraction of the time it to complete the dailies today than it did before the patch if you’re willing to branch out for just a few minutes a day. But if even that is too much, you can do it every other day instead, and still be up to par with what you had before.

It’s hard to empathize with PvE only players complaining that they have been somehow displaced by the changes when all that’s required of them to make them even better off than they were before is a few minutes of travel time.

And now I feel as if we’re moving away from understanding, because I feel like you’re intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring vast swathes of my points.

First, and foremost, is that you’re responding to this as if the changes to the daily system are the only issue I’ve raised. It seems as if you want it to be, but it’s not.

Second, you’re arguing that PvE players haven’t been dealt an unfair hand, and they’re equal with all the other dailies. Again, my whole premise is that decreasing available options does not feel good. Just because you find fractals to be easy or PvP doesn’t make you despair for the world doesn’t mean that it would hurt your gameplay at all if there were more options.

Here’s kind of the crux of where I’m at, and I’m not sure if I can give a better example than this: I am totally, 100%, completely happy that there’s a PvP exclusive armor. Up with this sort of thing. I would have been extremely unhappy if that armor was plucked from the PvE sets and erased from everyone’s wardrobe.

I’m pretty frustrated right now, so I’m going to step away. Again, everyone, please be mindful of Gaile’s post, and remember that we’re having a discussion with other people. Please report posts that are in violation of the forum policy, rather than responding. Thank you all!

Subdue.5479:

Guhracie.3419:

Subdue.5479:

Zero Day.2594:

There are two people that seem to be trying to derail the thread by trying to switch it to how fast people acquire resources and now legendaries (btw the root of that evil is precursors…)…

That’s not true. While precursor prices have risen, that’s more a response to an increase in the availability of gold. It’s not like there are fewer precursors dropping now than a year ago.

The whole premise of this thread is that there are options being taken away from PvE players, when the only reward for dailies is AP, something that is abundant in PvE relative to the other game modes. I think the availability of the singular reward which is apparently forcing PvE players to grind painful events or travel begrudgingly outside their comfort zones is extremely relevant to a conversation about PvE players having choices in what content they want to do.

And, like I said in my original posting, the change to dailies is merely the impetus to having this discussion. There is a larger picture, here. I also object to your assertion that the way to bring PvE in line with PvP and WvW as game modes is to make a more restrictive game for PvE. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you- I genuinely do not know.

But if the shift in philosophy to fewer choices was meant to balance things out for the other game modes, it has sorely failed in many ways. There’s no reward track for the personal story in PvP yet. Most of trait acquisition is located outside of WvW, and none of it is in PvP.

Do you genuinely feel as if PvE needs fewer choices to be in line with WvW/PvP? I am just really struggling with what people are even defending, at this point. Are you saying that there hasn’t been a distinct trend toward a more rigid structure to the GW2 PvE experience in the last year?

Wow, that’s not at all what I said. I didn’t say PvE needs fewer choices. I said PvE is over-rewarded in almost all currencies in the game, and the rewards would need to be toned down to bring it in line with the other two modes.

There seems to be something which you glaze right over each time you respond. I’m not sure if you’re doing it intentionally, or if it’s a real oversight on your part. You keep talking about fewer “choices,” but what you really mean is fewer “rewards.” By that I mean, at least as far as the dailies are concerned, you are perfectly capable of doing every single thing you were doing prior to the change, and reaping the intrinsic rewards of those activities, though you wouldn’t be earning the AP. It is thus the reward that you’re chasing after, not necessarily the freedom to go do those activities.

When you consider that most if not all living story content is entirely PvE, and the PvE set of permanent achievements is also far more robust than that of PvP and WvW, should we really even have a PvE set in the daily? Isn’t PvE already over-rewarded in terms of AP relative to the other two?

Thank you for responding in good faith, despite wondering if I’m being intentionally obtuse. I know what that’s like, and I am really not intentionally misunderstanding you. I think I follow what you’re saying now, and I still have an issue with it. Hopefully I can express it in a less frustrating manner. And it’s quite possibly a product of where I’m at with the game right now.

I don’t know if this is just me or not, but I cannot think of a single part of the game that I’d choose to play for the intrinsic rewards, with the possible exception of the Sanctum Sprint. So when you say that it’s not a matter of choice, it’s a matter of rewards, I see those as interchangeable. It is the choice in how my gaming time is rewarded. If my gaming time isn’t rewarded, then what is the point? There are very few things in-game that I find to be rewarding on their own merit. So it’s likely that I didn’t address this in your previous postings because it’s essentially the same issue, to me.

I agree that the game has long been set up so that PvE is more rewarding in terms of AP, in this example, but often other currencies as well. That’s part of my point. Most of the changes I’ve pointed out this year are tied heavily to the removal/restriction of previously available options. I simply do not buy into the idea that it’s fun to take away systems that were flexible and replace them with more rigid systems.

Is this a more accurate response to what you’re saying? I feel like we’re really close to understanding each other, even if we don’t necessarily agree.

Ahaha, I couldn’t figure out what word the forum had “kittenized” in your title, but you literally mean your kitten. Cheers!

Olvendred.3027:

Guhracie.3419:

Do you genuinely feel as if PvE needs fewer choices to be in line with WvW/PvP? I am just really struggling with what people are even defending, at this point. Are you saying that there hasn’t been a distinct trend toward a more rigid structure to the GW2 PvE experience in the last year?

I haven’t felt compelled to do anything particular in PvE for a long time. I just do what I feel like.

Admittedly, I haven’t made a new toon since the trait revamp, and that is a horribly restrictive change I’ll agree. But only because, in one way or another, you do have to get your traits if you want a fully functional character.

But all of the rest is just perception, really. People feel compelled to do things, because they feel compelled to do things.

Thank you very much for this feedback. It feels very straightforward, and it emphasizes that we disagree about what defines “choice” in a game like this, in some ways. I really want to thank you for your tone, here, because this is the sort of response that fosters a good discussion. (Note, this is not the only response that feels this way- there are many in this thread I haven’t mentioned because I assume people know, so please don’t feel left out if you didn’t get a mention. It doesn’t mean you didn’t also use an ideal tone.)

I want to thank everyone for doing their best to keep this civilized and engaging.