-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
I’m really excited about this change! Good job, Anet!
At the end of the day this system has helped spread out the teaching of the system and the feeling of accomplishment through acquisition, but it has done it in ways that are sometimes counterproductive and still not nearly visible enough to impact as many players as it could.
Guild Wars 2 is a game that is going to continue to evolve and it will be because of your feedback and our efforts so do not get discouraged from posting feedback and be patient with change and I hope we will reward that patience.
TLDR;
We added this system as a direct result from the horizontal progression CDI. We are always reading your feedback, however, we don’t always have time to respond right away or action it quickly. We updated some trait unlocks in the past but we can do more. How can you help?
1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.
I was an active participant in that CDI, Mr. Peters, and this system doesn’t resemble anything that was suggested there. It obviously draws on some of the ideas, but if you really think this is more user-friendly than your old system was, I’d like to suggest you roll a new character and actually unlock a build this way.
The most offensive trait unlocks are map completions, dungeons that are more than 10 levels higher than the trait tier, and traits tied to bugged events.
It is not wasted. The problem was before, the traits really weren’t figured in when you were in combat, so they just readjusted the system.
You only need to get the traits you need for a build, it makes it so much easier and complicated.
This is utter nonsense. “Traits weren’t figured in when you were in combat” and “so much easier and complicated.” What are you even trying to say, here?
Traits were always figured in when you were in combat. The only issue here is that this player purchased a trait at level 16, and you cannot slot traits until level 36. It will be unlocked without needing to do the task as soon as the user has reached that level.
The best way to fix a communication issue(which is totally what we have here) is to tell the truth. In one post you say that you need to change how the downed state works to make the game easier to understand for players and in this thread you contradict yourselves. Try honesty: “We are changing the way stuff drops in game because we need to adjust the market.”
The way it has been explained in this thread is insulting to our intelligence. Your actions(Item drop changes) don’t match up with your words(Change is coming! Get excited!/You won’t notice a change).
This change might very well be subtle. We don’t know how widely it will impact us as yet. We’ll have to wait and see.
“But why bother telling us if its so subtle as to not be widely noticed?’
Two words – “Stealth nerf!”
Someone will notice. Someone always does, and if nothing is said we’ll have people screaming “stealth nerf” all over again.
If it’s so subtle it could be noticed only as a stealth nerf, there’s no call for an entire blog post on this “feature”. It could just be listed in the patch notes. Nothing stealthy about that.
And I don’t necessarily disagree.
Obviously they felt otherwise, for whatever reason.
I kind of think people should overreact just a tad less until after they can experience the change first hand. If it is in fact subtle as Anet claims, then they’ll have stressed over nothing.
Oh, I’m with you on that aspect, for sure. I don’t buy into the whole “this will kill all professions that aren’t light!” hysteria. I don’t know what the implementation will look or feel like. But it certainly seems dishonest to hype this feature, and then claim we won’t notice anything different. That is the disconnect I’m having, here.
See, I didn’t consider the single paragraph in the blog post regarding this feature to be hype. It was more of an informative “this is also coming” foot note. It’s 3 sentences. That is far from hype in my book.
It was a third of that day’s entire blog post. It had its own heading in bold type. That may not seem like hype to you, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
The best way to fix a communication issue(which is totally what we have here) is to tell the truth. In one post you say that you need to change how the downed state works to make the game easier to understand for players and in this thread you contradict yourselves. Try honesty: “We are changing the way stuff drops in game because we need to adjust the market.”
The way it has been explained in this thread is insulting to our intelligence. Your actions(Item drop changes) don’t match up with your words(Change is coming! Get excited!/You won’t notice a change).
This change might very well be subtle. We don’t know how widely it will impact us as yet. We’ll have to wait and see.
“But why bother telling us if its so subtle as to not be widely noticed?’
Two words – “Stealth nerf!”
Someone will notice. Someone always does, and if nothing is said we’ll have people screaming “stealth nerf” all over again.
If it’s so subtle it could be noticed only as a stealth nerf, there’s no call for an entire blog post on this “feature”. It could just be listed in the patch notes. Nothing stealthy about that.
And I don’t necessarily disagree.
Obviously they felt otherwise, for whatever reason.
I kind of think people should overreact just a tad less until after they can experience the change first hand. If it is in fact subtle as Anet claims, then they’ll have stressed over nothing.
Oh, I’m with you on that aspect, for sure. I don’t buy into the whole “this will kill all professions that aren’t light!” hysteria. I don’t know what the implementation will look or feel like. But it certainly seems dishonest to hype this feature, and then claim we won’t notice anything different. That is the disconnect I’m having, here.
The best way to fix a communication issue(which is totally what we have here) is to tell the truth. In one post you say that you need to change how the downed state works to make the game easier to understand for players and in this thread you contradict yourselves. Try honesty: “We are changing the way stuff drops in game because we need to adjust the market.”
The way it has been explained in this thread is insulting to our intelligence. Your actions(Item drop changes) don’t match up with your words(Change is coming! Get excited!/You won’t notice a change).
This change might very well be subtle. We don’t know how widely it will impact us as yet. We’ll have to wait and see.
“But why bother telling us if its so subtle as to not be widely noticed?’
Two words – “Stealth nerf!”
Someone will notice. Someone always does, and if nothing is said we’ll have people screaming “stealth nerf” all over again.
If it’s so subtle it could be noticed only as a stealth nerf, there’s no call for an entire blog post on this “feature”. It could just be listed in the patch notes. Nothing stealthy about that.
Unless you like world completion and world bosses. I mean, it is not all that hard to try to actively unlock all traits, just time consuming.
Karka Queen is the only world boss that unlocks a trait, I believe. Guess how easy it is to find dungeon groups or do wvw objectives without traits? How much time needs to be consumed by this system? It’s exactly the same for each profession, so how many professions should new players have to slog through this system on? It’s not just world completion and world bosses, it’s dungeons, group events, bugged events, jumping puzzles, personal story steps, and map completions.
Sorry no – all the Orr events unlock traits also….
Oh, sorry! Please show me where the Orr events are on the World Boss schedule?
When the Tradepost price for Linen or Silk quintuples as a result of the addition of ascended armorcrafting, did you refuse to pay the new market price, insisting on the older, cheaper price that nobody is willing to accept any more?
When Unidentified Dyes stopped dropping from plant nodes, and the laurel price at the laurel vendor went up with the April feature update, did you refuse to spend the higher laurel price on Unidentified Dyes, claiming that if you could harvest them for free before, you will not be paying anything for it?
Manasa Devi does have a point, that a number of the trait unlocking accomplishments are quite taxing, especially if you need to do it again for each and every character that wants the corresponding trait. In this respect, I second the earlier poster’s hope that ArenaNet may adjust or rebalance what tasks are exactly required for trait unlocks.
For example, what if the first three adept traits would be unlocked for free, so that all three trait slots in that line can at least be used as soon as they become available?
A player controlled market is utterly different than one Anet controls externally. But I absolutely did refuse to buy cloth at the prices they went for a year ago, because it wasn’t something I was able or willing to pay.
I also refuse to buy 1 unidentified dye for 5 laurels. I can obtain the colors I specifically want on the trading post for considerably less than that. Again, another system that is not completely externally controlled by Anet.
Those both have acceptable alternate choices. Traits are just a cluster of kittens.
That combined with the fact that I’m not going to pay more than what it used to cost to unlock a whole tier for a single trait, and I’m faced with doing HotW with a grand total of two traits unlocked. Does that sound enjoyable to you?
You control this choice. Do not pretend someone else forced you into this position.
After all, coin and skill points are just play money.
Anet forced me into this position when they changed a perfectly fine system into this wreck that you’ve obviously never even attempted.
Unless you like world completion and world bosses. I mean, it is not all that hard to try to actively unlock all traits, just time consuming.
Karka Queen is the only world boss that unlocks a trait, I believe. Guess how easy it is to find dungeon groups or do wvw objectives without traits? How much time needs to be consumed by this system? It’s exactly the same for each profession, so how many professions should new players have to slog through this system on? It’s not just world completion and world bosses, it’s dungeons, group events, bugged events, jumping puzzles, personal story steps, and map completions.
You can read what traits do before you unlock them.
Some will be utterly uninteresting. Skip those (unless doing the world exploration thing sounds fun to you).
Some will be interesting enough to try out. Buy those (unless doing the world exploration thing sounds feasible to you) and see if they work for you.
Once you have a complete set of workable traits unlocked for your build, keep those.
Consider slowly expanding your trait kitten nal, either through buying more unlocks, or through doing the world exploration things (if those seem fun to you at that time). Experiment with your newly unlocked traits to see if they could replace one of your older ones.
If you wish to change your build, you can work towards that by first unlocking the relevant traits (in the manner you choose), and then changing your build when you have them all. This is not all that different from collecting or buying the crafting materials you need for a new set of exotic armor with different stats.
Do NOT look at unlocking all 65 traits as something you NEED to do before you can even start enjoying your character. That is simply a mistake.
Without practical experience in the game using those traits, it’s actually quite difficult to know which ones will perform the best for one’s playstyle, and which ones are not as useful as they sound.
That combined with the fact that I’m not going to pay more than what it used to cost to unlock a whole tier for a single trait, and I’m faced with doing HotW with a grand total of two traits unlocked. Does that sound enjoyable to you?
And you really shouldn’t buy all the traits. Unlock the ones that are easy for you by doing stuff, buy the ones you need and don’t feel like unlocking the other way.
That advice only really works on veterans who have already experimented with all the traits for a the profession in question; you can’t really tell someone on a new character, playing a class they’ve never experienced before, to “buy the ones you need”, because how can they know what they need without trying it first? A lot of traits only sound good on paper and tend to turn out to be rather lackluster when actually used.
Anet claimed they made the change to encourage more experimentation and build diversity, but it seems like such a backward way to go about it: limiting options to encourage diversity.
I think you are missing the point. Many players only use a ‘zerker’ build in PvE and WvW (although there are many useful builds). This way, just unlock what you need for your build and move on.
Trait unlocks were billed as being there to encourage build diversity, and here you are, encouraging everyone to use a cookie-cutter build.
I’m just really baffled by anet’s response, here. A whole blog post hyping this new “feature” and then a quick note telling us we won’t really notice anything, and then nothing. Are we going to notice more profession-specific drops or aren’t we? Because either way you spin it, there are some serious issues to address.
“Scam” implies you are paying for it.
Semantics. You know exactly what he wanted to say.
No. The meaning you give to a word comes from context. If theres not enough context, it must be clarified. You can just go around saying “You know what I mean”.
What I read is what’s written there.And there it says ArenaNet is scamming people with he feature pack.
ArenaNet’s overlords may be imposing on the game several policies like gemstore pricings and how items are obtained by characters or the account that are scams, but the feature pack isn’t one.
The meaning of a word comes from its definition, and the actual definition of “scam” doesn’t imply money. It implies dishonesty.
There’s still a very small chance of getting them from gathering, but as mobdrops they’ve been removed.
Hence why the price rocketing from 3 – 5 silver to 30 – 40 each. >_o¿The removal of dyes from the drop tables has to be one of the worst decisions ever made by Arenanet. It is mind boggling that they would make so many decisions that are meant to assist the new player in other areas, but then take out one of the most enjoyable and fun things for anyone in game.
Its like someone came in and crushed all your crayons. I have been in game for 2 years and this decision makes me sad for new players who do not have the joy of getting a new dye. On the days when I was having extreme bad luck and poor drops, a dye could make my entire day.
I don’t know what is worst: the removal of the BLC keys from the drop table or the removal of dyes.
I’m pretty sure keys are still able to drop from mobs. My guildie got one recently.
I only got key drops durring the week of increased chest loot a while back. Haven’t seen a key since.
Key drops are rare. Dyes don’t drop, not even from gathering.
I’d like to see engineers have four separate weapon options before implementing a weapon swap mechanic for them. Either that or give engineers a kit in the weapon swap slot, rather than making us use at least a quarter of our utility slots for them.
Engineers can use pistols, rifles, and shields. So the weapon options are p/p, rifle, or p/shield. Let’s give engineers some diversity before we add a feature they can’t even use.
Because it is technologically impossible to automate the update appearing online, there can be no preview today.
Lol, more likely that they want to be available to comment on posts and such that would spark from the update notes.
Yeah. They’ve been super about doing that in the past.
They removed dye drops…
Some of the decisions they take are difficult to understand as they end up making the game less fun.
As a trade-off for dyes being made account-wide, I think it was a necessary implementation. I liked character-bound dyes, but I do appreciate the convenience of them being account-wide. That said, my laurels are piling up since the increase in laurel cost for unidentified dyes. I feel like, for me, the pros outweigh the cons in the system, though.
No. A featureless feature patch is a scam. Sadly I don’t think they work on another thing than the LS, and even this is delayed and delayed.
“Scam” implies you are paying for it. As when you buy gems you are paying for the gems,and when you spend the gems you are paying for the stuff you are getting with gems, whatever they do with the free updates it’ll never be a scam.
Scam: A dishonest scheme.
Does not necessarily require money. (I’m not saying that this is or is not a scam, just clarifying the meaning of the word.)
Removed completely from the drop tables? Meh… Well then, I guess I didn’t get those 2 as a drop… You may be right about the BL chest Vargamonth, I hardly ever get keys, so I don’t open them often, but that would seem the likely place now.
Is dye a possible reward for a story instance? Maybe I got them there?
I don’t think so. Just black lion chests or the laurel vendor.
It’s a holiday in the US, so it seems possible that the blogs won’t come until tomorrow.
Voicing my support for this. We should be getting exciting things from black lion chests, not things we get for using an 88c salvage kit.
During the April feature patch preview, they put the most controversial changes in some of the very last blog posts before it hit. Here’s hoping history won’t repeat itself.
A quest/mission in which all the plants on Tyria (trees, bushes, grass, kelp, etc.) all suddenly started screaming at once and you have to travel to all the corners of the globe to find out why, as well as how to stop it.
This is bizarrely specific, and way more than 10 words.
Does this mean that it will affect level 80s?
Yes it will but the change will not be easily noticeable.
Hey, if somebody from Anet could pop by and clarify this, I’d really appreciate it. Why have an entire blog post about something that won’t be noticeable? Why implement this feature at all if it’s not going to make an impact?
1. A more effective trading post interface. (At the very least, sort by armor weight)
2. An equal amount of weapons available to each class.
3. Emote spam should trigger suppression.
4. Better invisible/dnd settings.
I may be wrong, but I believe chemic is talking about making the tools for users to create content being difficult, rather than the act of creating SAB maps. There’s potential for exploits, for things that may not be appropriate to their T rating, and there’s the fact that they don’t even trust us to be able to customize our UI.
Great job, everyone! Some really fantastic cosplay!
Wow so one red post from Izzy then nothing, back to zero communication again I guess
To be fair, if ANYTHING in the next week’s announcements is capable of impacting this situation, they need to hold off and make that announcement first. THEN they can see what we say to that change, and go from there.
There’s a lot of things that might impact it, too. Account wide skill points, for example. Or being able to unlock traits with laurels. Or buy level up or skill scrolls. Some might make it better, some might make it even worse.
Even if nothing in the next week’s announcements impacts this problem, I’d rather have them talk about it for more than a week or two before deciding how they’ll address it. They might change it once, but I doubt they’ll change it twice. If there’s a fix, it needs to be right the first time.
This just kills me. Closing in on 5 months since implementation of a system that couldn’t possibly have been discussed for more than a day or two, and we’re still sitting here with fingers crossed that they’ll spend more than a week or two discussing how to fix it.
I agree with you, Palador. It just makes me really sad.
Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.
Thanks for your input.
The reason I want this separate from the mega thread is because that thread is full of a lot of general complaints/ideas. I want to give them something more meaty and focused to chew on – something that will (potentially) alleviate a lot of the complaints without undermining the spirit of the original changes.
If people are not interested in talking about such a thing, then I am out of luck, but I’m hoping that they are. I know that talking about it doesn’t mean that Anet will instantly do something; it’s more to give the complaints some practical direction.
I’m not trying to disregard your idea. You’re right. There are plenty of complaints in that thread. But there are also a lot of good ideas that are months old, and I’m pretty unhappy about that. It’s worthy of discussion, but I don’t have the energy for doing it, myself, and given how merge-happy they’ve been with threads of this sort, I really think it’s unlikely to stand alone for long.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there are people who aren’t talked-out about this topic. You’ve got good ideas, and you’ve presented them well. It’s not that I lack respect for your ideas, it’s that I lack faith in anet’s response. I’m sorry if I sounded brusque.
Yeah. I think it’s gonna get merged with the traits megathread. It’s a good idea, don’t get me wrong, but anet doesn’t have time for the trait system.
I’ve been running around lately to get my locations, because I feel like teleporting to a waypoint makes no sense,
Waypoints make no sense, but guardians breathing fire that cure conditions, mesmers making clones of themselves that dissolve into butterflies and rainbow pony shortbows totally do?
I think it’s required for unlocking a trait.
The wardrobe only shows what you have unlocked.
[&C9cDAAA=]
No, if you go to a wardrobe in the bank/crafting station, you can preview all skins from there, except for some random ones that don’t show up.
You know why it doesn’t make sense? Because we don’t have all the information. Granted, it still might not make sense afterwards, but there’s no way of knowing until it’s implemented.
Im still not convinced of that. Its such a small increase as it makes little difference in the long run. You’d have to have a ridiculous amount of drops for it even to be considered an advantage. 1g over 430 gear drops isnt that much.
This is the part that has me scratching my head.
Development takes time and money. If these changes are not going to be noticed why spend the money to implement them ?
And why spend an entire blog post hyping them, if they’re inconsequential?
There are some items that just don’t show up in the wardrobe if they’re not unlocked. There’s no real rhyme or reason to it, so I doubt you’ll find anyone confirming that they will or won’t come back. (My bet would be that they do come back to the gem store, though, for what it’s worth.)
There are white arrows on dev posts (by their names, on the left side) in threads, and they point either up or down. Down will send you to the next dev post in a thread, up sends you to the previous one. Also, as Goatjugsoup has pointed out, there’s the handy dev tracker subforum.
As I said much earlier in this thread (too lazy to pull it up), the unlocks for the traits needs an overhaul. One suggestion is to make it be based around how you play, with using certain skills unlocking the traits that help those skills after a certain criteria with them is met (such as using the skills 50-100 times). Another is to link each trait to an event or renown heart that fits them, such as linking the increased movement speed in stealth trait to that one Ash Legion sneak heart in Ascalon being completed. Things like that, where it makes sense on how you’re unlocking the traits.
That sounds like it would take a lot of time and effort to develop. And it would probably confuse new players. And…. uh…. something-something-something Scarlet.
Yeah, it’s a game breaking disadvantage that can only be overcome by…. rolling and playing a light armor character? Oh. That doesn’t sound game breaking at all. Nevermind.
I’m going to play the classes that are the most fun for me. I don’t expect I’m the only one. Let’s see the system at work before we decide what it will or will not kill.
Wasn’t the ability to get multiple ores per “hit” replaced with the Sprocket drop? Or can just till get lets say 2 irons from one hit?
No. Why would you perpetuate this myth? As it says in the description of the item itself, it has the exact same effectiveness as an ori pick, with the additional chance to drop sprockets.
I’d love to see the metrics on this particular day of the sale. How many people will opt for one of the lesser tools over the tool with a bonus? I wonder…
I am pretty sure that BLC actually drops some, if not most, of the rare gem items. I myself got the Total Makeover Kit 4 times.
I’ve never had a permanent gem store item drop, and they’re not listed as possible drops in the wiki. Thiago, I think it’s likely your friend was trolling you.
I’m annoyed because it’s a shady cash grab that people who trust the company might assume is on par with the copper-fed iteration. I’m annoyed because I’d like to have a better version of the copper-fed SoM, but this is a mockery of that. Just for your reference.
Damaged armor leads to broken armor, which is not effective. This is incentive not to die. In theory.
Are you confused? Don’t know what CDI means? Can’t be bothered to look at the sticky posts? No problem!
Click here for more information! (Hint: It’s a link to the sticky post on this very forum. Have a great day!)
Where’s our SAB?? This thread has more views than most of the stickies, does it not warrant a response as to why the already created and widely beloved SAB hasn’t been reenabled?
Didn’t you see the interview? It hasn’t been enabled again because it doesn’t fit in with the living story. Obviously. (tongue is firmly in cheek here. there’s literally no good reason to trash the thing abandon it “for the time being.”)
Over 2,000 posts… The latest blog post was really disappointing. I was hoping that the red post we got recently here was a bluff. It seemed implausible that they actually hadn’t thought about or discussed how much hate this system was getting.
Echo that. :\
After four months of almost consistently negative feedback and suggestions, to know they’ve barely looked at it is disheartening.
They haven’t said this but I am surprised that more people haven’t come to this conclusion:
The months of silence on this and much more is because they have been very busy and fervently working on the China Rollout. It wasn’t just the initial month but fixing bugs and issues and making sure things went smoothly with China. This was a huge cash cow for them, or at least a potentially huge cash cow and so they wanted to make sure that everything went smoothly.
The second aspect of it is that they want to unify the two systems to make sure it is easy to roll things out to both systems. So that is what we are seeing. They roll it out to China and then they roll it out to us. These changes we are seeing in the latest “big push” are all changes for China and are now making their way to us.
The reason they haven’t read the 4 months of hated response is because they were busy with China. Also it allows them to see whether it is initial dislike or if it is long term dislike. If initial ride it out and it dies out. If it is long term then they have to make decisions now on how to implement changes to ours that they can also implement with china so that they can keep programming similar. It would be too expensive to have two different programming departments. Much cheaper to have one that works on both.
Disheartening to see they didn’t read it, but not unexpected. They weren’t ignoring us, they were simply busy with something more important. Remember it’s a business so they put their attention and their time where money is to be made.
Then maybe they shouldn’t be rolling out huge new systems when they’re too busy to handle the repercussions? It’s not like the China launch was some big surprise that they couldn’t possibly have foreseen. They implemented the feature patch at the same time knowing full well they didn’t have the resources to manage both.
That said, it was pretty obvious that no changes to the trait system were coming in this “feature” patch, based on the post Mr. Cartwright made in this thread.
Maybe they’ll introduce a system where you can pay a set amount of Gems to have your item listed in a priority queue. So if Item A has a low price of 1 Gold, but you pay Gems to list yours for 1.5 Gold, the 1 Gold priced item can’t sell until yours does!
Are you sincerely hoping for something like this to be implemented? I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling or not.
C’mon, guys. We knew when Isaiah posted in the traits thread that no trait updates were forthcoming in this patch.
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