I still vote nothing will change as the game is broken at the core and no one wants to bother fixing that.
Do you mean you feel like the game was actually designed around a trinity system…but they just forgot to put in the healers and the tanks? If so, I agree.
The dungeon fights here remind me of when my friends and I would all take our dps toons into a dungeon and try to beat it when we played WoW. Can be done and was generally about as much flailing around and running as there is here.
I mean the game was designed to be as thoughtless and carefree as possible. No critical thinking required, all in the name of providing the ultimate casual experience. After all casual gamers are the biggest cash cows in the industry, preying on them should always be a #1 business priority.
It is them that you can thank for MINDLESS melee cleaving, and CAREFREE condition spamming on auto attacks.
Inb4 lightsabershield(Tormented Shield) inevitably replaces it as a tier 2 legendary.
Do warriors ever suffer?
No, they have a stance to add immunity to that.
They have stances in this game? Spoilers wooshSkill Categorization for the sake of Trait functionality does not make something other than a skill.
Mesmers and Elementalists are considered heavy now?
I still vote nothing will change as the game is broken at the core and no one wants to bother fixing that.
Do warriors ever suffer?
Enjoy I guess.
So conditions in GW1 were pretty much part of the counterplay mechanics, with a way lower uptime and accessibilty across the board. They were also split into conditions and hexes to reduce accessiblity even more. Where a single well played desease used to win a fight, we now have constant 25 stacks of vulnerability and bleeding that can be cleared and reapplied with ease.
Still there are tornment and confusion, trying to keep the old days alive.
Thanks for summing this up for me, Judge Banks.9018.My personal opinion is that quality instead of quantity makes abilities way more interesting to use but maybe there are upsides too? As it appears to be, anet is tries to equalize all classes more and more, even potentially sacrificing individuality of each profession. Another example shows this trend as well: relativization of ranged attacks to the point where there is almost no difference/advantage to/over melee attacks, while every class has easy access to both.
The question is: What good are conditions in their current form? What would effectively change if conditiondamage was removed and power / crit / critdamage became the only way to improve damage in pve as well as pvp?
You would need to so much more than simply remove condition damage, after all we already lost hexes, but beyond the visible things that we lost, much of the internal damage mechanics were abandoned.
Just take a look at how extremely complex the damage formula was in the original Guild Wars.
The biggest thing to note is that Guild Wars had hit boxes which were used to determine where you hit the enemy. This was important because you could build to protect your larger hit boxes at the cost health, however if you get hit in an area that doesn’t have +10 armor you will take more damage. When doing Hardmodes it became imperative that you understand fully how to rune/gear against certain enemy types.
Reminder: There have been multiple 1000 post threads about how hard it is was to push forward and jump when necessary. Literally 3 buttons.
Soooo, still dead?
Grenth vs. this thread.
Now I suppose for the differences, I’ll let you decide if it was worth it or not.
Bleeding while still being widely available across professions, was not the highest damage dealing condition in Guild Wars. The way that bleeding and stacking bleeds is handled in Guild Wars 2 is the way that it is because they chose to do away with hexes. Hex spells such as Seeping Wound and Rising Bile no longer exist. As such they had to make up for the lack options in the damage over time department via homogenization.
Disease was removed from the game, and honestly needs to be put back in. As some sort of short ranged aoe dot that spreads upon dealing damage. In Guild Wars Disease was equal to the damage of poison, but a much more rare commodity. Only Necros and the rare Grenth dervish were capable of applying disease, however if disease found it’s way into your party, well it would wreak havoc as seen in The Great Snowball Fight of the Gods and Grenth vs Dwayna matches.
Poison was weakest of concepts in Guild Wars for a condition, as it was essentially disease without the ability to spread between species of the same type. The upside is that it was much more accessible, not as common as bleeding, but still more common than disease.
Blind Blind in Guild Wars was often times a game winning condition, instead of leaving the enemy after a single attack, it stayed on for the full duration. It could absolutely shut down melee. However it only affected Melee/Projectiles/Missle-Spells. Regardless if a team was capable of covering a blind on a spiker, it was likely that team wouldn’t have to worry about losing a team mate.(Until Sight beyond sight was added)
Cracked Armor Was another game winning condition. It would reduce your armor by 20. Armor in itself was an incredibly complex system as was the damage, seriously the formulas take days to explain. As far cracked armor is concerned, it reduced armor by 20, but would not take a target below 60(which is base armor at 20, and considered light armor). So using cracked armor to it’s fullest potential, a player could expect a 41% damage increase. This was replaced with Vulnerability, which isn’t even half as useful.
Daze Another Grammy Nominated condition, daze in gw1 unlike gw2, was a condition and as such followed all the condition flags, on top of that Daze was often lasted 5-15 seconds depending on how it was applied. Now the big difference is that Daze was not a silence, even though it originally was called silence. Daze would double your casting time and make it so any direct damage you would sustain could interrupt what ever spell you were casting.
Burning was one of the shortest duration condition, but it was the highest degen available to conditions, unlike how Bleeding in GW2 complete trumps Burning in both availability and raw damage potential. Burning alone was able to put pressure on a single monk if it was applied to hit whole team. Burning could also be applied to non-fleshy targets, which was especially useful for dealing with Spirits.
Deep Wound GvG All-Star. I’ve seriously lost matches due to a single deep wound being applied on a guild lord at the last second. Anyways, deep wound functioned as the anti-heal condition, reducing healing by 20% on a target, but also reducing a targets total hp by 20%. As you know it never made it to GW2, which is kind of lame, but at the same time it made poison useful, we’re still missing the 20% health reduction part however.
Cripple Remained the same, however more readily available due to the homogenization of hexes into conditions.
Chill Didn’t exist, instead hexes would be the only form reduced attack speed, and cooldown times, on top of interrupts that would increase cd times.
Weakness The final game changing condition, and the most nerfed condition in it’s transition to GW2. Weakness would reduce physical damage by 66% and all attributes by 1(which roughly averaged out to 8-12%). It could even break some builds if a character was put below the attribute thresh-hold to use a weapon because of weakness. Weakness now only reduces damage by 25% and doubles the time it takes your endurance to recharge. Which is cool and all, but it doesn’t hold a candle to what it could do.
Hope this turns out right, typing on a tablet with windows 8 is annoying.
Unfortunately, I haven’t played GW but perhaps it’s not too late…
Anyway, would you care to give a few examples of what exactly worsened compared to GW1? GW2 has indeed alot of simplified and even some oversimplified aspects and I want to observe this development so being specific here would help me a great deal. You can rely on the information of this wiki, which I will read thoroughly if necessary to understand your points.
kitten , I had this written out in the previous post, but decided it was likely just bloating the point. Well I’m going to do a bit more copy/paste from the wiki than I originally had intended and hope to do justice with a comparison.
Well first I guess it’s important to note that conditions in Guild Wars were not the only form of debuffs in the game, there were also hexes, spirits, and environmental effects, but for now we’ll just focus on hexes and conditions(mostly on conditions).
Some copypasta from the Guild Wars wiki:
Both conditions and hexes have negative effects on the affected creature; however, there are some differences:
- Conditions always have the same effect regardless of how they were applied. For example, health degeneration is constant for burning (-7), bleeding (-3), poison (-4) and disease (-4). In contrast, hex effects depend on how they were applied. The duration of both hexes and conditions tend to vary, depending on skills used, attributes, and other factors.
- Most players find that conditions are cheaper and easier to apply/remove than hexes. This makes them less reliable than hexes, but more efficient and easier to spread.
- Conditions tend to be caused by physical damage skills whereas hexes are more frequently applied by spellcasters.
- Most hexes can be applied to any creature, whereas a number of creature types are immune to various conditions. For example, non-fleshy creatures are immune to three of the ten conditions, but are immune to only one hex (Malign Intervention).
Ok, that’s a point, but I doubt they mean that seriously.
It’s rather obvious that there are day/nightcycles in GW2.
Yet, they are rather minimal, though.There’s a lot of things that aren’t consistent in this game…the moon changes phases between maps, for instance. Hell, the sun NEVER sets in DR (look up at night and there it is).
The environmental lighting in this game is pre-baked, and adding a truly dynamic day/night cycle would take CPU/GPU time away from everything else.
Implying there is any GPU usage.
. . . . This message brought to you by the WupWup tribe.
Not at all. I have never been involved as much with conditions as in GW2 and have never even recognized them really. However you sound like you have some worthwhile experience to share?
Uh, I was making a reference to Guild Wars and the way that they were handled . They were an extremely deep and integral part of the combat system.
In lieu of a deep combat system, they replaced it with one that is easier to understand.
Many of the issues with this game come from the basic development cycle, making sure everyone is capable of understanding it without thinking, and flooding the game with as much shallow content as possible in order to keep people playing the game.
I personally don’t agree with how they go about things, but hey it’s their game right? Too bad it’s going to have a massive negative impact on the western market for the next 4 years, then again that’s just my speculation.
(edited by Judge Banks.9018)
Realistically profession/clkittene on a large scale can be productive in bettering the profession/class.
Take “Rogues” from WoW for example. Remember the stigma behind them in vanilla? Then take a look at how they evolved from Vanilla to Wrath. How much of not only pve, but pvp power houses they became.
Although baiting rogue tears when diremaul was released was pretty entertaining while it lasted. If I had to guess, rogues and shamans would’ve been easily the two whiniest classes out of the 9.
If they just merged everything that the pet is with the ranger, god the class would be fantastic. Probably overpowered too. If I had to guess everything would probably start hitting as hard as Greatsword used to hit.
(edited by Judge Banks.9018)
This was the mechanic the OP was referring to:
Projectile weapons inflict more damage against foes at lower elevation and less damage against foes at higher elevation.
- Testing has yielded attacks that can do up to 200% of the listed maximum damage (not including modifiers)
- Critical hits are not affected by elevation. If the elevation bonus is higher than a critical can achieve, then that value is used instead.
Spoilers Logan doesn’t actually love Jenna.
I wish they would slow down a bit, the way that introduce all their characters. . . it’s absurdly fast, I don’t any other way to put it. This causes me to not really care about the character.
It’s not like any of you are capable of speaking with your wallets anyways.
That does of course have more to do with the limitations and “invisible walls” of GW1 than actual size.
If you could just run in a straight line (which is more or less possible in GW2) it wouldn’t take long.
That or Deepfreeze/Imagine Burdened/Crippling Anguish/GiantStomp/Mountain Troll Linebackers/Signet of Judgement, y’know things of that nature, or maybe it was the general sense of peril. I guess things tend to go a bit slower when you’re not a ONE MAN ARMY.
However I still wager that Guild Wars 2 is smaller than 200 square miles.
A comparison of Guild Wars Prophecies Explorable Zones vs. Guild Wars 2
B-but Guild Wars Prophecies sucked R-r-r-right?
Rather bad comparison, seeing as the maps in GW2 is much bigger than most of Prophecies maps were.
Yet Lornar’s Pass, arguably one of the bigger if not biggest map in PvE end of the game, and can easily be crossed from top to bottom in less than 5 minutes.
I doubt I could run Snake’s Dance in 5 minutes. Nice eyewear though.
A comparison of Guild Wars Prophecies Explorable Zones vs. Guild Wars 2
B-but Guild Wars Prophecies sucked R-r-r-right?
I know somewhere on youtube there’s video discussing the mechanics of the game, and when they got around to the point at which they were discussing the dynamic event system someone brought up griefing, and their response is that they worked hard to prevent any situations in which a player or players could actively grief other players through dynamic events.
What exactly happened?
When did the “Oh well good enough” mentality take root? Was it for the sake of pumping out speedy and shallow content to keep the locust sated?
MMO’s move and expand slowly.
GW1 was pretty lackluster at launch, even quite a while after that. Only with time and new campaigns did the game improve and I think the same will happen to GW2.
Although, they should probably give us more/clearer insight into what new features they are working on.
The original promised features for Guild Wars Not to mention “Observer mode” which was impressive in itself.
I guess it’s all a matter of perspective, often times the new campaigns DUMPED on pvp balance as hard as humanly possible.
I don’t want WoW like raids, I want Elite Missions for GW1.
The deep was easily my favorite dungeon.
I’m surprised no one is dissing farming yet. The common player here doesn’t understand that purposive activity in a game is not problem behavior.
Actively making an effort to be intentionally inefficient is problem behavior though.
At the Gemstoreā¢
Largos seem boring so far.
The DE was useful for rushing to 80, access to a bank made a world of difference at the start. However a giant rytlock would more than likely weigh me down more than anything. Which is why I opted for the DE instead.
Too bad double bladed battle axes are as efficient in battle as a stupid scythe.
I wonder if morning sickness is similar to realizing that Guild Wars 2 is considered the new western mold for mmog development.
Why would you want to do that? Do we need more characters to hate?
Question, if someone wanted to, could they not simply grief the kitten out of these new mega boss events? Isn’t grief prevention something that they spent so much time working on?
I wonder what caused the bug, and why the bug exists at all. I can only imagine something along the lines of “Oh yeah, forgot to add the victory state.”
Realistically I would blame last minute changes.
You wouldn’t happen to have a screen shot of the apology would you? Regardless, good job.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Didn’t think about the development cycle and how long it’ll actually take to get over the Scarlet Slump.
Original Guild Wars players probably wouldn’t have been upset by such a non-issue.
Assuming you were working a minimum wage job for every hour you’ve “wasted”, you could’ve probably bought your precursor with said 20,000USD.
What would be wrong with 20 or 25 man content? That would feel pretty good I bet. Currently 100man(?) looks rather messy.
Transcended armor.
Hold on a second. What do you mean no loot. I’m getting loot for that event, even when it fails.
Perhaps it’s not “obvious” loot, but those code keys I keep picking up from mobs do translate in a reward. Furthermore, the final chest, even when you fail, does give you some reward…particularly if you get most of the chains down.
However, if you go get 50 power cores and get into scarlet’s lair, you can use the keys formed from the code fragments to open chests….the reward is simply something you have to take an few extra steps to get.
I ended up yesterday with 13 rares I wouldn’t have had, and a bunch of greens and blues as well.
The reward is there…just not everyone has played all the content to release it.
Let’s not forget that dandelions are also considered loot.
So… Tequatl is still a DPS race then?
Isn’t everything in TumblrWars2 a dps race?
Because of the ever progressing “Story”? Yeah, I wouldn’t either.
Why are you even playing this game, to me this game is the best video game I’ve ever played in my life. I come from WoW and this game makes me compliment it everyday with how much it surprises me and how much fun I have on it. If you were the dev during alpha, I fear this game wouldn’t have been a god like it is now.
Translation: “This game is perfect, what are you talking about? Be happy with what you have.”
It’ll never happen, but I respect your effort.
Old story doesn’t matter. McCoy story is the only story.
Dps Cheque is the flavor of the month though.
