Guild Wars 2

Kaizz.7306:

Hey, so I’ve played a Guardian for over 1000 hours, and while I’m not bored, I’ve made quite a few alts, having a warrior, engineer, and now thief at 80 as well. Since I’m mainly focused on WvW with the occasional dungeons and some PvE, I decided to really learn how to play my thief. I’ve seen a lot of builds in action, getting kitten d by some, and demolishing others. As for myself, I’ve always hated the perma stealth thief builds, both to play and to use. It just seems pretty gimicky, albeit, having 6K crits with BS without even having my thief fully geared is entertaining. So really, for WvW I’ve been using either 0/20/30/20 or 0/30/30/10, both are fun, but both have used D/P and D/D. Seeing as how Thieves are apparently getting “nerfed”, is there a point to still learn the class, or should I just go ahead and work on my mesmer?

I want to stick with the thief, which is turning out to be more fun than I thought ( I’ve always hated stealthy rogue classes, preferring the tanks). Yet, I want to use my Thief in wvw and in dungeons, but after looking at the possible changes on the 10th, and hearing actual thieves saying they’re retiring because “D/D is dead”, what do? I know it’s long, but I hope what I’m asking is at least semi clear XD

“As for myself, I’ve always hated the perma stealth thief builds, both to play and to use. So really, for WvW I’ve been using either 0/20/30/20 or 0/30/30/10, both are fun, but both have used D/P”.
I have allways hated perma stealth, so i picked d/p combined with 30SA as my build. Makes sense.

Dee Jay.2460:

I think we’ve all seen this a lot of times.

You’ll be fighting one of the popular minion-spam builds, typically a Necromancer or a Ranger.

You will be in stealth, trying to position yourself for a Backstab. You are right behind the Ranger/Necro and have him targeted.

You execute your Backstab….only to hit one of his bloody minions next to him.

WTF?!

Why do I even bother targeting things if the game override my decision. It does this even when I am “aiming” the camera perfectly at my target of choice. BAM it will turn around and hit something else.

This is really annoying and one of those things that make minion builds more resilient than they should be. Because it happens constantly.

Most issues i have with this when fighting mesmers. Or necros with 100 minions, but those are rare. I already renamed my “backstab” into “cloneseeker”. The sad part is most good mesmers are very aware of this. Most of times 1×1 fights vs fairly glassy mesmers extend up to 10 min or more.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

He knew that part, read his last line first paragraph: But… I got stomped

Stop picking words. There is no way that he/she was killed by a zerg and then STOMPED. Zerg button mashing is faster then stomp animation.

It’s general that ppl look for the answers that solve the OP’s case.
While in general it’s easier to assume that she got zerg smashed rather than stomped, it doesn’t change the fact that we should find a reason how she got stomped.
Also, in her OP she already showed awareness of AoE being untargetted. She was asking if there were aoe that, after being cast, caused you to be targetted (which the answer to is “no” btw)

Its common sense that you cant be targeted by any means when you are in stealth. And only possible way to be unstealthed in that situation was to leave refuge area in first 4 seconds or someone droped a stealth trap on top of her.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Karolis.4261:

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

He knew that part, read his last line first paragraph: But… I got stomped

Stop picking words. There is no way that he/she was killed by a zerg and then STOMPED. Zerg button mashing is faster then stomp animation.

Let me explain you how it works. Shadow refuge+thief+angry zerg that has seen your refuge on top of it = dead thief. And if you are not aware yet, most if not all gw2 attacks dont require target.

Dagins.5163:

I don’t understand why anybody would consider picking D/D over D/P, even if not planning to play “perma stealth”. With D/D you don’t have #3 skill, where D/P’s chase ability with blind is insanely useful.

Because only kitten play D/P, kitten.

Aesthetic Quietus.5346:

Can someone explain to me why this supposed “perma” stealth is op? I play every thief spec. And being able to stealth a lot has really only bonus: annoyance. The spec is laughable for zergs, it’s inefficient for tpvp/spvp(node capping lol), and doesn’t have a whole lot of evasion(talking typical 0/30/30/10 build). There ARE counters to this “perma” stealth. It’s not hard to disrupt this stealth spamming: stand in the powder so they hit you with heart seeker, interrupt them, knock them out, fear them out,etc. Stealth is about the only defense this spec has. No stability, no ridiculous evasion spam, little to none condition clearing(Shadow’s embrace looking like it will being ineffective with short duration stealth). When a thief sits in stealth, they aren’t killing anything. Its only good at small scale roaming. And even then it is outclassed by other professions.

It all boils down to one thing to me: people are just annoyed by it. A dodging player who knows how to keep his back away from you sure as hell already makes it a pain to get a good backstab in with only 4-5 seconds to position behind someone’s back(Excluding you do a steal/shadowstep backstab, in which case time is not of an essence).

So does all it take is a whining population to nerf something that’s marginally annoying? Play a level 80 thief for a day or two. You’ll realize how ineffective you can make other thieves vs you in the short windows they have to get at your back in stealth.

I laugh at this idea that s/d evasion spam is somehow more talented/honorable. Spamming my dodge key is a lot easier than stealth spam. And on top of that, the stealth spam with s/d is still really easy. An on command shadow return on top of that. I realize s/d is getting nerfed, but it is not getting a ground breaking nerf like d/p.

After all is said and done, people will kitten about all the d/d thieves running around and still staying in stealth. But somehow, d/p stealth is this shunned idea. I can’t find a good argument anywhere for it. Sound like a bunch of women not using logic. In fact, it’s a little easier to stay in stealth(d/d) with pve mobs and groups of players with their pets/illusions.

The only way to sustain very long durations with JUST heartseeker/black powder combo is to pan your camera and get 4 heart seekers off(not easy to do continuously). If you can’t stop a thief doing that while he can’t even see you coming because of your over-head camera angle, you really are bad.

If you really are obsessed with stopping stealth duration with that trait, try a small change first. 2 initiative when entering stealth, 1 initiative returned while already in stealth.

Let the flaming begin by a bunch of fanboy s/d elitists(a far more effective and unbalanced build when played correctly) and people who don’t have a clue about countering stealth.

Well then take D/D with same 0/30/30/10 and stop crying about D/P nerf u big kitten. But you wont cause you cant pull of same stunts with d/d as with d/p now can you. Maintaining stealth with CnD vs good players will lead to your death. Maintaining it with Bp+Hs combo will not. And stop the “stand in BP” to stop d/p from maintaining stealth bullkitten excuse. By doing that you will only get blinded (blinds no longer gets cleaned auto attacking air if u arent aware of that), get damaged by a hs, and if u are squishy that might actually hurt. So what that u will reveal him or even manage to cc him afer (wich is unlikelly since u kitten ed around inside bp and u are blind)? D/P Can just withdraw away (couse withdraw is actually d/p friendly and d/d usually cant afford using it) and keep doing his thing while spiting blinds left and right.
Oh and little to none condition cleanse with D/P and Shadows embrace ? D/P+ SA is pretty much best condi removal + in stealth healing thief can get.

I think this video will bring some more thief nerfs.
Q.: But why??? its a warrior video !!!
A.: Exactly.

Yes it does.
Too Short.

Archituethis.2560:

The best part is that any thief with 20 points in acrobatics getting the 2 init per 10 will be receiving A WHOPPING MASSIVE .5 extra initiative per 10 seconds, not even a full initiative. Yet with the nerf to opportunist we will be losing so much more initiative. The only spec that may feel any beneficial change would be a condi thief, and for them it might just be .5 more init per 10 seconds.

0.5 more init per 10 seconds ? Someones skipping math classes. 0.75ini per 1s = 7.5 ini per 10s, so 1 ini per 1s = 10 ini per 10 s, so thats 2.5 ini more per 10 s.

Dee Jay.2460:

LoL, if anything D/D is getting better.

More Initiative regeneration means you don’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more and can play with both Blind of Stealth and Condition cleanse.

Nothing in the patch-notes preview makes me thing D/D is getting any weaker than it was before.

Well D/D loses of initiatie regen from crits, so that kinda takes away that 25 precent bonus ini regen.

Tell me one thing from upcoming patch notes that makes d/d fail more then it does now. Initiative back on crits nerfed, but base initiative regen boosted from 0.75/s to 1/s. Infusion o shadow change dont change x/d besides the fact that u wont get 2 initiative extra on every stealth skill used while being in stealth allready (for example hide in shadows or blinding powder used directly after CnD). So no, D/D isnt getting a big shot, D/P does and rightfully.

Vukorep.3081:

patiance is “1 ini every 10 seconds”
and i dont think ive seen patiance being buffed to " 1 ini every 3 seconds"?

i tried that set up with the 1 ini every 10 seconds and the pre 10th patch of base ini regen and i can still get about 4- 5 HS in total before i run out of ini completely and drop out of stealth..

we have yet to try out different ways of "reviving " perma stealth after the patch…but even if we did a net has decided there will be no such thing as perma stealth as it is at the moment.

Or just drop it and learn to play D/P as intended ? minimal stealth with some nice control. X/D was made to be king of stealth, no D/P. If you black powder bunnies don’t understand reasoning behind this when comparing X/D to D/P, you are hopeless.

Doggie.3184:

Karolis.4261:

I do realise that thief is in poor state compared to other fotm classes, but … when looking from thief vs thief perspective, D/P HAD IT COMING BIG TIME. So many blinds + huge easy to access stealth uptime = ultimate counter to other stealth based power builds as d/d and s/d. Blinds + Easy to access pulsing stealth combined with SE -ultimate counter to p/d condi build.

Stealth uptime was due to a camera bug though. I guess they couldn’t fix that bug and improvised.

You could have managed perma stealth with 3x hs w/o changing camera angle using quick recovery and and inf signet. While having to lose hidden killer.

FrownyClown.8402:

See that upper level off to the right of his zerg? Kill him

^This
Tooshort.

Sanduskel.1850:

Thieves could easily permastealth after the removal of culling, and they will still be able to cheese/scrub it up after this.

All im saying that culling played big part in stealth hate when x/d used to stay invisible couse of rendering issues couple seconds after leaving stealth. This is where CnD perma stealth and thief that does damage while not leaving stealth myths came from.

Love to see D/P perma stealth trollface teeth kicked in. However there is one issue with shadow arts tree 5 point minor trait (last refuge ) that has been discussed by thieves over and over and by most agreed that it is much more harmful then helpful, specially for x/d stealth based builds. Imho it shoud be moved into 10 points traits, so ppl that like it still could use it. As for what should fill its spot… infusion of shadow/shadows embrace or cloaked in shadow would be best candidates. This would bring x/d stealth thieves up in the food chain a little, since in curent heavy aoe/condi meta they are really lacking. All those 3 traits combined with shadow rejuvenation would give thief x/d more staying power and grp support via blinds from CnD instead of burst, stealth up, completaly reset the fight and come back again to repeat, while very other class can enjoy combat while thief has to abuse combat/hp reset mechanics.

Sanduskel.1850:

This won’t effect god thieves at all. I applaud these changes. Permastealth ruined our reputation and made us the most hated class.

Culling did that far before perma stealth became meta. Every way to access stealth since those times became illegal. Still, good kick d/p cheesecakes in the balls.

One thing i want to see in patch notes. Last refuge swapped with infusion of shadow/shadows embrace or cloaked in shadow… Keep dreaming though

If anet would have wanted perma stealth in this game, they would have lefts us with perma stealth accessible via single button push like in many other games. BP+3-4x hs while maintaining initiative was not intended, clearly was a mistake in how infusion of shadow works, that made that possible.

I do realise that thief is in poor state compared to other fotm classes, but … when looking from thief vs thief perspective, D/P HAD IT COMING BIG TIME. So many blinds + huge easy to access stealth uptime = ultimate counter to other stealth based power builds as d/d and s/d. Blinds + Easy to access pulsing stealth combined with SE -ultimate counter to p/d condi build.

Walker.3056:

Karolis.4261:

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Basically you cant chain HS over BP for perma stealth anymore

Oooh, now i see the difference between descriptions. Gain initiative when using a skill that grants you stealth, aka every HS trigered it. BEST NEWS EVER. Im official D/P hater since day it become meta build. This will nerf a little other stealth builds tho, including my d/d (as for example… use CnD to enter stealth and in that 4s window use hide in shadows or blind powder or w/e, wont give 2 initiative too ), but knowing how it will hit d/p hs bunny hopping… made my day. Hate me all you want couse im happy . Vigor nerf is a kitten though. Know a person who’s gonna rage about it. I know i would.

Cuteypie.7835:

Dee Jay.2460:

To me it sounds like most builds are going to end up with MORE Initiative than before, meaning they can completely ignore any additional Initiative regeneration.

I mean buffing passive Initiative generation to 1/Sek. is a MASSIVE buff with unforeseeable consequences, even with nerfs to the trait-regeneration.

As far as I see it, Dagger/Dagger for example won’t even need Infusion of Shadows any more to sustain itself and neither will Pistol/Dagger. Only Dagger/Pistol might end up with a nerf to perma-stealthing.

And while I like the changes overall, I’m not sure if they’re really doing much to improve Venoms or many of the other under-appreciated Thief traits.

The Deadly Arts tree in general could do with a major overhaul, as could many of the passive damage increases. I think that would do more for Thieves than simply altering already popular traits.

Name 1 build considered meta where this change will make the thief have better init regen than before. Just 1

Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second. Well this one is solid 33% extra initiatove regen speed.
Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s. This one however will probablly take that 33 % exra initiative and flush it to toilet. In conclusion, same or less initiative for power builds, more initiative for condi builds.

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Aquin.3192:

Thief is most definitely in a bad place. Let me give you my perspective after nearly 9,000 games on it.

For play style background I’ve never been a stealth based play style outside of d/d and a short round of fun with p/d and have mostly played in your face damage with s/p + s/b or p/p ( yeah yeah it is effective if you know what your doing and has been in a bad state and even worse with last patch).

It is sad but I almost have no desire to play him anymore and have opted for other classes when logging in for some hot joins or playing tournaments.

The risk vs reward balance and amount of effort contributed for results delivered has been destroyed with the current condition spamming meta. This sense of risk vs reward seemed to be there at one point but has gone astray. Although this effects thief directly it is also a harbinger of where the game is going from a twitch/reactive competitive aspect. I’d gladly go back to the bursty quick kill or be killed metas rather than this dance around the point conquest bunker crap. ( who wants to watch that?)

I maintain some pride by refusing to play that d/p trash which is sadly one of the most if only effective play styles available. ( yeah let me shoot black powder over and over auto attack then heartseeker through it… rather play solitaire)

Play some other classes and see how many mistakes you can make while delivering the same if not more effectiveness and you will understand. Sure it’s fun to play for pride but it has lost its way when it comes to being effective in comparison to other offerings available.

“I maintain some pride by refusing to play that d/p trash which is sadly one of the most if only effective play styles available. ( yeah let me shoot black powder over and over auto attack then heartseeker through it… rather play solitaire)” <—————-READ THIS BLACK POWDER BUNNIES.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Karolis.4261:

Goes for Gunars Hold. Thx for whoever reported me bashing about Anet’s choices made to make www as it is now. Blobby, laggy and unplayable for anyone but keyboard mashing zerglets. Got banned only for 72 h, but be sure ( with your help) I will try my best to make it a perma ban next time.

So someone from your own wvw server reported you for bashing ANET .. wows GH must have some real butt shinners out there… but seriously can I get a copy of what you wrote, must of been real entertaining stuff

I bash www on regular basis. Gotta ask a person (or persons) who reported me, couse I bet that came with screenshots .

Goes for Gunars Hold. Thx for whoever reported me bashing about Anet’s choices made to make www as it is now. Blobby, laggy and unplayable for anyone but keyboard mashing zerglets. Got banned only for 72 h, but be sure ( with your help) I will try my best to make it a perma ban next time.

Pavel.8531:

Still no PW fix… -_-

the only fixes we will ever get will be in the form of a nerf bat.

phaeris.7604:

Looking at the state of the game I feel thieves need a bit more durability defence wise.
I know we were given the lowest health band with a view to stealth access and blinds, but blinds/stealth don’t really do alot against all the aoe’s.

Let’s face it, there are ALOT of hard hitting aoes now in the game. And alot of chain cc’s. Seems whole host of classes can just drop aoe abilities without being phased by blinds. This is why rangers are such easy targets…..for pretty much everyone.

Yet they gave rangers an anti stealth buff….i’d be more worried about the hammer warrior no. 678 coming to 3 shot you after a leaping hammer stun.

U haven’t met a good ranger then

Ah yeah, cloak and dagger cast time will be increased by extra 2s, removed dodgerolls since we have stealth and dont need them, right? Shadows embrace will finally get that 10 s internal cooldown, which wont affect only d/p since they will remove one condition every leap through smoke field anyway. Sword 2 will no longer remove conditions and will have range reduced to 150 (we dont want to actually leave that aoe range, do we ?). Tactical stike will no longer daze or blind, but instead will cause 3 stacks of bleeds for 3s (since every physical weapon set must have mixed in damaging conditions that are completally useless). Flanking strike will no longer be double attack, will not remove boons of your target and will have requirement for you to actually have boons to cast it, each strike removing single boon from you. Dancing dagger will not be changed, since it allready works as intended – gets obstructed by air or just disappears into nowhere. Black powder circle will be doubled and its shot will bounce though 5 targets instantly blinding all of them. Shadow shot will have its ranged increased to 1500, its blind will become 600 radius aoe.. Preparations to remove every other weapon set but d/p will begin.

HeNnAz.8913:

There are multiple builds for thief, thief is not broken and is not a bad class. Just like engineer this kitten takes a while to get used to and if you don’t get the hang of it in PvP. GTFO and stop QQing no one likes you and your talking kitten about something you don’t understand well enough.

Oh yeah ofc we have multiple viable builds. Thats D/P, D/p, d/P and …. oh right d/p.

Every single person that cries here about those stacks got his kitten handled to him by a stacked up roamer(s) while running through open area trying to reach his blob. Serves you right, zerglets.

Seriously ? Next will be like… “why cant i kill stuff while im dead?”

davidcrickett.8536:

Sorry, I was not referring to permastealth this time, but to your build:
“This is your main rotation. You will drop a blackpowder and heartseeker through it 3 times (your initiative gain on stealth will make sure that you have enough initiative to do this) and then you backstab your opponent (the rotation shows your regular auto attac, but its really supposed to be backstab). I often stay in stealth as long as possible for the extra might stacks, condi removal, and healing before backstabbing.”
It must have been before “revealed” was introduced, right? You seem to be stealthed through three heartseekers and then backstab?

Before revealed was introduced ? Oh cmon ppl. You dont get revealed as long as you dont hit anyone, so you can spam HS through BP all you want.

Yak would slap your thief so HARD… !

Collision detection.

Well if I would actually like www in its overcrowded state ( which I don’t) I would gladly pay that 100g for commander tag just to get into www w/o any queues while having no intention to command at all. So its not a good idea.

I would say just use whatever u like the best, but we all know that sooner or later everyone jumps into d/p bandwagon.

Not the last time i used them.

He said " if I had stealthed and used a stealth skill she was revealed". That says nothing about other thieves using stealth on him while he is stealthed or whatever u are saying here.

I don’t really play class for its performance. I started thief 344 days ago ( /age). Started playing it w/o any information on its performance or culling issues in www. Started out as d/d because …well … it is iconic and looks cool. At that time, even after some nerfs, hidden by culling and players incompetence, d/d thief was a killing machine. Now its at poor state if facing good players. Doesn’t mean that I will reroll to fotm class or even jump into d/p bandwagon. Don’t be a kitten.

Clumsy.6257:

BlueDragoon.1632:

Would anyone like to tell me how people are getting 100% crit chance if it’s gimping yourself so badly? -_- Full zerker EVERYTHING exotic level, mind you, you only sit around 55% crit chance. You need nearly 3.6k precision to reach 100% crit chance.
I’m honestly starting to feel like everyone’s who’s mentioned having 100% crit chance are being unrealistic. 100% crit chance is ridiculous, unless you’re meaning with fury factored in, still you need 80% crit chance which STILL isn’t realistic.

sitting at base berserkers and glass build im at 61% crit chance, with signet of agility ( a signet you should almost always be using), im at 70%, with fury (easy to get 100% uptime with 1 warrior and 1 ele) im at 90%, since the majority of parties have a warrior in them, im sitting at a little over 100% due to banner of discipline and if i wanted to get really fancy i could invest in 25 stacks of perception putting me at around 115%,, very easy to get over 100% crit chance

Yes and going over 100 % will make you crit so much more ! Oh w8…

Getting killed by heavy condi guy, which probablly was necromancer while being speced into SE is normal these days if u dont run d/p.

If you attack something while being stealthed, u get revealed. Simple thief mechanics. Thats how it allways worked. You never played a thief before, or you just trolling.

Interceptor.2653:

Karolis.4261:

Don’t think so. I didnt have a chance yet to get jumped by 17 k backstab and 12 k hs thief by a surprise before i can simply 2 shot him myself by much tankier build then his.

You’re just kidding yourself, here. A Thief can close distance on you without being in target range long enough for you to do anything about it.

I don’t run the same build as the guy that hit the Mesmer for 29k+ damage, but closing 2500+ units and arriving stealthed next to someone, is about as difficult as falling out of bed. Shadowstep, Steal (especially traited with Long Reach), and Infiltrator’s Arrow make it pretty easy.

Im kidding myself with what ? Where did i say that thief cant make that range in a blink of an eye ? Im doing the same with shadowstep+steal all the time myself, they never expect geting attacked from over 2 k range. All im saying that i have never been jumped by such a glassy glassy thief when I SEEN HIM COMING, which is what happened to that mesmer.

Poxheart.2845:

Karolis.4261:

I do know where is “look behind” key binding and what it does. And I can see no reason why it would be better then simply using L mouse button.

Your loss.

Don’t think so. I didnt have a chance yet to get jumped by 17 k backstab and 12 k hs thief by a surprise before i can simply 2 shot him myself by much tankier build then his.

I want to play a match where stealth stomps is guaranteed

Monoman.2068:

Wvw is a lost cause as long as the downed state still exists and a blob can cover the same distance in the same time as a single player/small group. Top it off with the massive skill lag that forces players to reduce their brain usage to that of a single brain for the entire blob and you have a failing formula.

Just give me an open world map where I can fight people and I will be wasting one less queue slot.

^
This and very much this.

Poxheart.2845:

Karolis.4261:

Look behind key ??? You have to use your mouse L button to look around.

Yes, “Look Behind” key. Under control options, scroll down to the Camera section and you’ll see there’s an option to bind a key to look behind you without using the left mouse button. If you’ve watched anybody that streams their game play or makes Youtube videos, you’d see that this is something the better players use regularly.

I do know where is “look behind” key binding and what it does. And I can see no reason why it would be better then simply using L mouse button. And no, none of the players that i consider good uses it. And dont mention youtubers or streamers here lol, many of them use their mouse to click skills.

Ricky.4706:

ya, but unless you are in a big pve guild – those areas are empty most of the time – I’ve tried it ..and stand around orr like I have to go to the bathroom itching to get back into wvw lol – but nooo one is around. If you pve regularly, I’m sure you have your pve buds to group up with quick, but if you are hardcore wvw – you don’t know many of those people and are stuck trying to rally people for what seems like forever, then with dungeons – they usually get upset because wvw builds die fast. – minus the warrior and guardian which naturally take more damage better.

L2stuff. Google it. Thats how you get all of your dragonite ore in couple days while being guildless prick like i am. You get tons of empyreal shards by just doing www, i got allmost all i need by just fliping camps w/o even knowing what it is needed for. You get way more while running zergs, which i dont do. And the red stuff … bloodstone shards i think? If u dont get enough from boxes u loot from towers/keeps lords ( im not sure of they drop from that though) ,,, in 1 hour of champ train u can get all of bloodstone shards u will ever need.