Guild Wars 2

ipan.4356:

I used to play a Witch Elf in WAR and, of course, I played a Rogue in WoW.

Naturally, I wanted to main a Thief in GW2 – the Rogue archetype has always been my favorite kind of character to play.

Thinking about all the problems I encountered with Rogues and Witch Elves, and now Thieves, I realize it’s always the same, no matter what game it is:

This class is not meant to fight in the front lines.

The Rogue/Thief/Assassin/Witch Elf is a SOLO class. Everything about the class is meant to be solo (or at best, with a small group, as in dungeon play).

You skulk in the shadows. You try to take your opponent down in a flurry from which they cannot recover, then retreat until you can reposition yourself for the next kill.

You don’t work in a sustained fight, if you could, you would be a Warrior or a Guardian.

Anet has two choices: leave the Thief forever broken, and unusable in PvP, or modify them until they are more like another class that is actually good at fighting on the front lines: the Warrior.

IN which case, you might as well play a Warrior.

Everything about the playstyle of a Thief screams solo, but PvP is NOT solo – it’s a group fight, a grand melee. The Thief simply doesn’t belong there.

I suppose Anet could redesign the PvP environment itself, adding elements that are exclusively meant for the Thief (example: there used to be talk about rappelling for Thieves – what happened?) but this introduces problems of it’s own – either you have to wait for a Thief to get there, or you don’t really need that particular thing done anyway, in which case it’s trivial.

Let’s face it – the Thief is kinda fun for PvE, but in the end, it will never be a PvP class because PvP is inherently group oriented, and the Thief – in our very nature, the core of our being – are a SOLO class.

So roam www, kill upleveled squishies and run away screaming “Thats what you get for being such a kittening zergling!” while they type one more topic about how op thieves are. Thats how i play my thief. Thats your role in gw2.

DeviLee.7384:

wait wha? O.o double sigil of agony?

Instead of listening what other ppl say, just try to stack second sigil on and see if your bleed time on skill tooltip change.

Remove exotics and even rares from www. kitten it remove even greens. Keep only blues. Cheap, cheaper to buy new then fix. Perfect. With leagues started, insane ques and skill lag I chose not to www. So should you. Instead i farm my ascended weapons so when/if they find a solution (maybe that www overflow that i hear rumors about) I will come back with new shinnies!

Nerf spider venom ! 60 s of POISON thats op !

Vaux.7502:

wish.1027:

jonwar.4186:

hey wish, I’ve adopted your gear suggestions to the T and I must say I really notice the staying power and keeping up respectable damage. However, I’m curious behind your thoughts on how much you value toughness over vitality, no math needed, what is your first thought on how important it is to the thief and what would the final toughness rating you personally wouldnt go below?

I ask because I’m trying to learn sword dagger and taking the 30 points out of shadow arts for trickery or more points in acrobatics is losing alot of toughness and armour, I can only begin to make up for these lost points with full knights or soldiers gear. help?

For Thief, its all about effective trades for defense, so you only use soldiers gear. You shouldnt worry about DR because your sustain is not amazing. DR is only super, super amazing if youre like say, a warrior using the regen signet that ticks for 500 hp/tick or whatever BS it is… lol.

Thiefs main form of survival is avoiding hits through stealth or dodge spam, this build is just setup so you can take that glass super buffed backstab or killshot, which for whatever reason seems to happen to me way to often when I play this game. So I wouldnt worry to much about DR vs HP (and in fact for thief I dont) and just look at EHP.

EHP = (Armor * HP) / 1836
Armor = Toughness + Defense
(Armor and HP are viewable on Character Screen)
DR = ( Armor -1836) / Armor

I’m curious how you (and other thieves) play in bigger group scenarios. I’ve watched Yishis’ videos but those are all from when stealth could be spammed and you didn’t have to wait the 3-4 seconds (w/e it is) before you’re able to re-enter again.

I find that in sPvP or bigger group situations in WvW it’s extremely easy for enemies to switch to me once I’m out of stealth and burn me down quickly before I’m able to stealth again. Of course throwing in dodges can keep you up for another stealth, but if you have no endurance/shadow step, it seems like an instagib.

Stealth never worked that way. Once you attack from stealth u get 3 s revealed. Thats how it is, thats how its been. On older Yishis videos culling was still in effect, meaning thiefs ior any other class didnt render fast enough after they left stealth, sometimes making illusion of being stealthed all the time (from opponents eyes, not from thief). You can clearly see that from old thief videos when culling was still affecting www.

Dee Jay.2460:

Every build is fairly easy to play in GW2. That’s just the nature of your limited tool set. Some more than others, but it’s not a huge gap.

The skill in GW2 comes mostly from knowing other classes, what moves to dodge and reacting to your environment.

The thing with P/D is that it does none of that. It’s always the same move, against every enemy, in every situation. The slow, attrition based play style also means that you are easy to ignore (which is frankly the best way to deal with a P/D Thief) and don’t really contribute much to anything.

It was entertaining for a while, when the build was still fresh (thanks Wild Bill) but the build and play-style has not evolved at all over the past year. Seen one P/D video, seen them all.

“It’s always the same move, against every enemy, in every situation”. Same with any other thief build there is. Because anet gives only 2-3 skills tops on each weapon set that works. Stealth builds will use 515151 with some 2 for gap closing, or immobilise or stealthing in case of d/p, S/D evade builds will use 313131 with some 2. I cant’ see difference. What i see is some ppl who jumped into bandwagon of d/p and s/d and feel so elite cause of actually using 3d button or not using stealth with s/d evade spam build at all…

Incurafy.6329:

Karolis.4261:

Frenk.5917:

I don’t like your build, I don’t like your video, I don’t even like your playstyle ^_^

Moreover, the simple fact that you think P/D is a difficult build to play with makes me laugh. It’s like, you know, 5 – 1 – 1 – 1 repeat. With the occasional use of utilities (poison venom? YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!)

You sir, play D/P , which is totally broken in OP kind of way build (link in your video) and you have no voice in thief forums. Just doing my part of hate

Oh please, D/P is only broken if you’re a scrub who hasn’t learned how to counter stealth yet.

Let me fix you… Thief is only broken if you’re a scrub who hasn’t learned how to counter stealth yet. I play a thief and only a thief myself for almost a year (D/D and aint gonna chnage it to D/P how all of the sheeps do ), mostly www and i do know how to counter stealth. What im saying is D/P is totally overpowered and have less counters compared to any other stealth based thief build (x/d). The broken part of d/p is stacking stealth by multiple leaps inside black powder what provides the real perma stealth and broken effect of Shadow’s Embrace and Shadow’s Rejuvenation while doing so (Multiple heal and condi remove ticks pretty much every 3d second) what gives D/P ridiculous amounts of survivability even while in berzerker gear, compared to other stealth builds like d/d or s/d, honestly …. even p/d. Not to mention that you dont need to be in meele to stealth, which lets you to avoid all that aoe and splash damage that is controlling www atm.
As I already said somewhere D/P weapon set wasn’t designed to be the heaviest stealth build, it ment to be stealth + control, x/d (specially d/d and p/d) was designed to be heaviest stealth weapon sets.. But it simply went out of control because of possibility to do multiple leaps through single black powder and SE, SR working as it does with BP and HS. Ofc anet will never acknowledge that.

Frenk.5917:

I don’t like your build, I don’t like your video, I don’t even like your playstyle ^_^

Moreover, the simple fact that you think P/D is a difficult build to play with makes me laugh. It’s like, you know, 5 – 1 – 1 – 1 repeat. With the occasional use of utilities (poison venom? YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!)

You sir, play D/P , which is totally broken in OP kind of way build (link in your video) and you have no voice in thief forums. Just doing my part of hate

Heh i wonder what build all you haters play (If you play thief at all) S/D 313131 or d/p 522221522221 black powder bunny hopper ? how is that different from 515151 p/d, or any x/d based around stealth. I still see 2 buttons with occasional third one.

Its not a “bug”, but next time your are leaping through black powder 3-4x times, take a look at it and think if it actually was intended to be used that way, or simply game mechanics let it get out of control… I’ am guaranteed that x/d was intended to be heaviest stealth build and d/p should have been less stealth, more control (blinds, dazes) and chasing (900range gap closer with built in bind) kind of build.

Solstice.1097:

Despite the growing pains (queues, puggers, achievement bugs, etc) I feel like new life has been breathed into WvW with the dawn of season 1.

The queuing problem will probably help with server population imbalance. On the higher servers some people won’t even be able to get into WvW enough to get the season meta achievement, so there will certainly be some spreading out as a result of this.

Sure, a lot of PvE players are carrot-chasing newbs, but a big portion of non-WvW players simply have never taken the time to get into it and understand it. It’s a completely different mindset and attitude from PvE – almost an entirely different game – a lot more players than many of you think are going to continue to enter and play WvW after they get their carrots. Why? Because its kittenING FUN why the hell do YOU play WvW? It’s the single most re-playable aspect of the game. It has never received the attention us hardcore players think it should and now we’re crying because it’s getting too much!?

Yes some leagues, NA Gold for example, are decided before they begin – but so many issues we’ve been QQing about for a year have been flipped on their head:

“WvW gets no love” -> the biggest living story achievement set ever? WvW season 1
“Server gaps too big” -> now even middle servers queuing all maps
“T1 gets too much reward” -> good luck T1 even getting in to WvW
“There’s no GvG” -> ok not league-related but they’re giving us a place to GvG!
“It’s a blobfest” -> now you gotta stop blobbing to escape the skill lag
“Matchups are bad” -> not perfect, but much better now

As far as NA goes, Devon really should be thankful he changed it to 6/9/9 instead of the original 12/12. Crystal Desert vs Anvil Rock or Jade Quarry vs Yak’s Bend would have been just laughable. Now Bronze league is super-competitive and fighting for 2nd and 3rd place in silver is going to be legitimately interesting.

""It’s a blobfest" -> now you gotta stop blobbing to escape the skill lag" – sadly things don’t work that way… People will have more skill lag then ever, but they will not stop blobbing.

I can 2shot lvl 10 thiefs and eles with no toughness and vitality in their gear and no traits with my maxed out ascended critical damage. Then i stomp them with ultimate invisibility+blind stomp. Stomping part has imba 10 % chance to suceed, couse they never run alone, NEVER. Nerf thief.

Galandil.9641:

Sceinna.3561:

I just tested again in sPvP standing in middle of caltrops & perma stealthing, 2 conditions every 3s (dunno where that 2nd cure came from tbh :/)

I tried it now to be sure, it seems you’re right, in sPvP we get 1 condition cleansed every 3 seconds of stealth (with 1 condition cured as soon as we enter stealth).

Bug or intended?

Im pretty sure thats d/p and its pulsing stealth perk, it allso heals double every 3d tick (dunno if it used before). Its hard to notice it w/o any long conditions but im pretty sure CnD still removes 2x conditions in 4s time.

Fade.7658:

Karolis.4261:

Seras.5702:

Maybe there’s a 10s ICD between instances of stealth for Shadow’s Embrace. So still removes every 3 secs, but once you leave stealth the 10s ICD begins. I’m at work. Can anyone test that?

I did test it in orr on poison field spamming mobs, it did remove poison every time i used cnd on it.

There’s something not quite right somewhere. I did a little testing on trolls in the Gorge, and there were several times I couldn’t remove the chill going into stealth. There may be more to this than we know. It’s a shame Devs can’t tell us it’s a bug, intended, and/or what the mechanic is.

That chill pulses when u sit in its field, maybe that was the reason, u just got new chill,

Seras.5702:

Maybe there’s a 10s ICD between instances of stealth for Shadow’s Embrace. So still removes every 3 secs, but once you leave stealth the 10s ICD begins. I’m at work. Can anyone test that?

I did test it in orr on poison field spamming mobs, it did remove poison every time i used cnd on it.

Black Teagan.9215:

Karolis.4261:

Hmm but that internal cooldown of 10 s seems not to work, i still remove condis every stealth, pretty sure every 3s

Nope, its works correctly.

How the discription say, do you remove 1 condition every 10 sec in stealth.
It dont said that you can remove only one condition in 10 sec.

well i remove 1 condition every 3s in steath still.

Valvador.4291:

Karolis.4261:

hmm Shadows embrace still works as it did before … so what the fk with that tooltip ? want to give us heart attack ?

Better prepare yourself for the nerf. If they added the tool tip, they seem to be prepared for it.

In that case starting to level my perplexity engineer.

VomitSpit.6843:

Karolis.4261:

hmm Shadows embrace still works as it did before … so what the fk with that tooltip ? want to give us heart attack ?

It removes a condition every 10 seconds now rather than 3 :\

No it doesnt, works as before, just tested in spvp with cripple and bleed standing in dodgetrops. Both removed in single stealth duration.

hmm Shadows embrace still works as it did before … so what the fk with that tooltip ? want to give us heart attack ?

Fade.7658:

I think the interval portion refers to removing conditions after the initial removal, while staying in stealth. So instead of removing 2 conditions if you sat in stealth long enough, you only get the one removal.

This is an attempt to nerf D/P thieves, but it’s hurting other specs as well.

In that case not a HUGE nerf, if we will be able to get rid of at least that singe condition every time entering stealth, still… this was uncalled for.

Hmm but that internal cooldown of 10 s seems not to work, i still remove condis every stealth, pretty sure every 3s

10 s internal cd …

The trait is called meld in shadows (not hide in shadows – thats a heal skill).. who makes these patch notes … ? Donty see Shadows Embrace nerf in notes, hope wont see it in game… Othervise im rly deleting my thief. Update done, the moment of truth…

Allready getting my berserker gear and scholar runes … 25/30/0/0/15 is back in game …

So if they change how SE internal cooldown works u will remove 1 condition every 10 s if u stealth, so in reality it will be up to 13 s or more. If they dont … Add 6 s revealed in between if u sit our full duration of stealth each time, if not, add more …

laquito.5269:

Sceinna.3561:

Maybe I’m being a bit “dramatic” but I’m sorta worried about what is coming here. :/

You’re indeed overdramatizing. Sic them won’t see much use outside of WvW and can actually provide some counterplay to the cheesy d/p permastealthing thieves. If you’re any good, you’ll outlast those 4 secs of revealed anyway.

I agree that the change to SE seems rather odd, because it also harms builds aside from D/P and our condition removal in general (which isn’t all that great), but I also think it’ll be a nerf to d/p, as they now can’t remove condis at will anymore and actually have to use their brain for once. I’ve always found it ridiculous that condi builds were mostly uneffective against d/p once they had SE traited, because they could always choose how much condi they want to clean, before engaging again.

Maybe ANet should make a distinction between stealth as something that is available to more classes via combos (BP+HS) etc. and just stealths the player without activating traits) and something like “cloaked in shadows” as a thief/mesmer mechanic that triggers stealth related traits. This way they wouldn’t necessarily nerf other weaponsets, just d/p, but well…idk.

I dont think you realise how hard SE nerf is. SE internal cooldown dont reset each time u enter stealth. IF it would, then after nerf u would simply remove one condition when entering stealth, which is the case now if u dont sit in stealth all 4 seconds, sometimes it even dont remove it if u was 1 s in stealth last time, then u have to sit 2 extra s in stealth just for it to triger. After nerf it will be one condition every 10 s and in order to clean that single condi u will have to stealth. Can think even of worse situation … Atm SE internal cooldown ticks only when you are in stealth and skill description says “remove 1 condition every 10 s while in stealth”, so if you stealth and remove 1 condition, then stealth again in 10 s to remove another condition (just in theory, in reality with stealth based build you are allready dead) it wont remove it, couse internal cooldown is at 4s max (the ammount of time u spent in stealth last time).
So… thats basically one condi every 20 s if u sit 3 s in each stealth… You need 3 stealth with full duration just for internal cooldown to tick those 10 s, add 3s revealed in between that ( 3s revealed in perfect conditions, u might spend out of stealth more).

evilapprentice.6379:

kiwituatara.6053:

evilapprentice.6379:

kiwituatara.6053:

Most rangers wont be running sic em anyways. No worries~

Please read all the other posts that have said this.

The CD, the length of the effect, whether or not rangers run it – NONE OF THAT CHANGES THE FACT THAT AN UNAVOIDABLE HARD COUNTER TO UP TO 42% OF CLASSES TRAIT POINTS AS WELL AS 33% OF THEIR CLASS MECHANICS IS STUPID DESIGN. It’s following on the poor precedent set by anti-stealth traps in Wvw (Like I said would happen when they announced anti-stealth traps). It’s lazy and it removes skill from the equation, because it can’t be avoided.

Relax. The amount of stealth on some thief builds are ridiculous. Its pretty much a flawed counter for a flawed concept. ~shrug

The caps are to be clear – when you see the same nonsensical response multiple times, you want to be clear.

“Stealth is flawed” is your opinion, and not a provable fact. An ability that can’t be avoided which negates up to 42% of spent trait points while also locking a class out of 33% of its class mechanics is provably flawed – there isn’t another attack in this game that has a comparable effect. It can’t be dodged (like every other attack in the game), it can’t be broken (Like stuns) or cleansed (like condi’s) once it hits – it’s literally removes skill from the equation for 4s. The fact that we’re talking about stealth is irrelevant – any attack with those criteria would be stupid.

If stealth is a problem, have sic-em make thieves visible while in stealth for 4 seconds – that way you’re not locking the class out of up to 30 trait points and their stealth attacks, while satisfying the biggest complaint about stealth (“Where did he go?”). I’m fine with counters to stealth – I disagree that they’re needed, but it’s not inherently flawed to attempt to counter stealth. It is inherently flawed to due it in such a heavy handed, poorly implemented manner, especially when my suggestion is infinitely better (AND achievable – there was a recently fixed bug that made thieves appear in full view on their own screens while in stealth, which means we know the game engine can handle rendering a stealthed thief visible while still gaining the trait/attack benefits of stealth)

Was the stealth animation bug fixed ? Im still being rendered as not stealthed in my screen a lot. Which fks me over badly… Some kitten told me to l2p and watch for revealed debuff…well… make it larger and movable !

Rane.4079:

So much nonsensical replies already, sigh.

Yes, playing well is going to beat a bad thief, I already stated that’s stupid to discuss. We are talking about good players of equal skill. Saying that “any class can beat a good D/P” is just complete nonsense, they can’t. I’m wondering if there is a single spec that can because I assure you most cannot.

“Perma stealth” is not an exploit and they aren’t any lesser of a person than you are for using it. You speak as if leap finisher in a smoke feild is a glitch that ANet didn’t program in intentionally. If anything the D/P theives are just smarter than you because they realise it’s the best roaming spec for Thief. If you want to play D/D or something because you enjoy it, that’s totally fine. But if you refuse to play D/P because you think those players are ‘lesser people’ than you – then you’re just bad (and childish).

Thanks Ross for the Mesmer perspective. I can see how a good condi or hybrid Mesmer would be a pain for them because both classes use very similar mechanics to outmuscle everyone else. I assume neither spec can prevent the other one from fleeing the fight if they want to though?

I refuse to play D/P because heartseeking 4x times through smoke field with your camera down and your field of view totally screwed up is too awkward and doesnt seem fun a all. Why anet dont give as normal stealth that wouldnt require such awkward mechanics to keep it up. 10s stealth with 10s cooldown that drains all your initiative on use as for example. I would seriously prefer that over seeing thieves hoping through smoke fields like rabbits.

Steelo.4597:

We need a GW2 feature that is equivalent to a ringing slap to the ear in real life. The friendly population is absolutely powerless against trolls out to destroy the success of their own side. Suiciding golems, draining supply, putting useless siege, creating drama in chat, even putting commander badge to lure clueless people to their deaths.. there is nothing we can do except /ignore while those people are working to destroy their own side unhindered for months.. all the regulars know their names and have prolly reported them a dozen times but nothing ever happens from the side of Anet.

How to deal with this? We need something like votekick from party – but for the whole of WvW and with much more drastic requirements (2/3 of the map or something) and consequences (banned from WvW for a time) then simply a kick. Or we need to be able to file a petition as a server to get someone banned from WvW… anything, even putting a ransom on their head to make them killable for your own server would work… but right now we can only watch them destroy the things we work for and there is nothing we can do to stop them.

In that case I would be chased by 3 servers in single www matchup

Tarinis.6054:

Taking damage brought one out of stealth, unless vanish was just used. Here, we got thieves stealthing, then stealthing right after their first stealth runs out. I guess we all have to spend money to beat a class…

You seriously comparing 2 games with completally different combat mechanics ? “Taking damage brough one out of stealth”… IF u played wow rogue, you would know that in wow it is kitten easy to avoid aoe that would break stealth simply because there isnt so much aoe and most of skills requires target to be used. If you havent noticed, allmost every single attack in gw2, including auto attacks, is Aoe and dont require target to be used. When WoW Rogue stealthes in combat, thats it, hes perfectly safe (If he used cloak of shadows). In Gw2 however hes still afected by any source of damage and cc, even aoe pulls will work. Stealth breaking on damage would not work in this game.

Which part of Precision/toughness/vitality bursts ? Precision wont do any good ( at least in terms of burst damage) w/o power and crit damage. Soldiers stat spread would probablly do better then this.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sanduskel.1850:

actually thieves CAN attack and remain stealthed. I’ve done it many times.

Permastealth trolling is an obvious exception to the rule, and something we’ve been saying should be addressed for a long time on these forums… yet somehow it still exists.

It’s fun though! Just like perplexity runes and Warrior WTFregen builds, enjoy it while it lasts because it’s broken and headed for nerf city.

The only possible way to do that is CnD chaining and, as said multipple times allready, If someone fails at stopping thief from doing that he deserves to be CnD’ed to death. 1234 block, dodge, cc.

Well if comparing 6 parts of valkyrie armor vs 3/3 of soldiers/zerkers armor, second one might do more dps on static targets while having same EHP, but u will not have static targets in pvp and most of your damage will come from those backstabs. So in backstab build i will take 6 parts of valkyrie instead of 3/3 soldier/zerk anytime … just becouse of that extra crit damage. Honestly, if Anet would have intoduced valkyrie accended trinkets, I would be running with full valkyrie gear now instead of valkyrie armor, berserker everything else.

Oh and this thread is confusing becouse your are claiming that sodiers will provide more dps then valkyrie, thats what ppl think, unless they read it all, which is not true.

styx.7294:

Karolis.4261:

Log off timer would be a great feature, but we will never have it. Why ? Because WoW and games build similar to WoW has it and Anet tries to go as far away from WoW as they can, which in most cases is a mistake.

Explains why we don’t have a character selection screen.

Log out timer was annoying.

Logout timer stop kitten s from alt+f4 spamming.

Log off timer would be a great feature, but we will never have it. Why ? Because WoW and games build similar to WoW has it and Anet tries to go as far away from WoW as they can, which in most cases is a mistake.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I still believe chain stealthing to be a big problem, but that’s more relevant for X/D instead of P/D.

I think u wanted to type D/P ?
So chain stealthing with x/d is a problem ( requires to be in meele range to do that, counterable my blinds, blocks,evades, random movement, all kinds of cc, aoe damage, what is pretty much any damage source in game) and D/P blind field perma stealth is not?

Fotm healing signet greatsword and shield warrior. Can catch anyone , escape from anything while regening full hp in a matter of seconds, bursts like a boss and does it in aoe. Perfect for roaming and works for zerging. Even has imba perplexity build available. Cya, im rerolling.

Stop blobbing = skill lag gone. Till that ppl have no right to qq about skill lag if they do blob, and 90 % of www population do blob on regular basis.

2+2=4
too short

vincecontix.1264:

4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHNUtnV-GsI 5v1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V54roXQJQWs outnumbered wvw roaming
Hybrid thief game from couple months ago it is most definitly viable

Your p/d build its simply not as effective as full condition p/d would be. Full zerker p/d and full carion or even dire( i doubt there is much damage loss when losing power, your main damage source is still conditions) have about the same dps, while going closer and closer to berserker all you do is lose survivability.

Hybrid build ( in my thief dictionary that would mean mixing physical and condition damage ) would not be as effective as builds that chose either conditions either physical damage. Oh and after so many ppl approving that they want to see your build you still haven’t posted it.

Stx.4857:

Perma swiftness is great, but I would rather take many other rune sets.. such as: Scavenger, Perplexity(even with no interrupt spam they are great damage), adventurer, or the classic bleed duration mix and match.

I would also much rather use hide in shadows for any build with 30 in SA, just too much benefit there. Although withdraw isnt bad, I just dont think its as good for a stealth build.

Shadow strike is great, it really increases your damage when you stack it with bleeds and poison from steal/spider.

Everyone has their preferences I guess, and this setup clearly works for you, was a great vid.

Cant agree that hide in shadows is better then withdraw on p/d build. Even without centaur runes. When traited withdraw lets u reach close to perma vigor. More evades = more survivability, more caltrops laying around + it cleans chilled, cripple and most important immobilise, what lets you get out of those sticky situations when ppl try and lock u in.

As i said. Collision detection.

Collision detection. Never gonna happen, but cant stop me from dreaming.

Well thing is… HS spam will get you killed in outnumbered situations. In group pvp where you have other ppl covering your out of initiative kitten and spamming ress 24/7 its ok to spam it once target is <50% becouse…well, it works, if you actually have high crit chance out of stealth. But in outnumbered situations where u see one or 2 thieves killing mulltipple clueless enemies at a time, HS spam will get you killed, since its all about initiative management then and going in and out from stealth to keep kittens as confused as possible.

Doomdesire.9365:

Karolis.4261:

Fade.7658:

Doomdesire.9365:

There is a 100% condition duration cap. The max you can get with vital shot and sneak attack is 8s(it may say higher on the toolbar if you have >100% duration, but the max is 8 seconds). With that in mind, I would recommend you using.

0/0/30/20/20

Giver’s pistol
Giver’s dagger
Superior sigil of agony
Sigil of corruption
Rare Veggie
Master Tuning

That will result in 7s bleeds as it rounds up from 6.5+(1s less than the max) but at the same time provides an entire rune set at your disposal which can do much more damage than that extra 1s tick.

Hope I helped!

Are you sure it rounds up? I’ve never really paid attention to that close of a duration, and always opted to hit the 75% mark when striving for a lot of duration.

No it doesnt round up, it only rounds down. 6.9 second is still 6 bleed ticks.

I just tested. It rounds up, however when you shoot someone and look at the time, say you have 7s, it will show 6s, but it’s the full 7.

Maybe it was changed few updates back, dunno. And back when i counted it i counted bleed ticks ( flying numbers in air) not bleed time on enemy health bar.
EDIT.: Just tested again. No it doesnt round up. Turn off auto attack, shoot one vital shot and count bleed ticks that appear in flying combat text. For example 20 in DA gives +20 % condition time bleed time thats 4.8s = 4 ticks.

Fade.7658:

Doomdesire.9365:

There is a 100% condition duration cap. The max you can get with vital shot and sneak attack is 8s(it may say higher on the toolbar if you have >100% duration, but the max is 8 seconds). With that in mind, I would recommend you using.

0/0/30/20/20

Giver’s pistol
Giver’s dagger
Superior sigil of agony
Sigil of corruption
Rare Veggie
Master Tuning

That will result in 7s bleeds as it rounds up from 6.5+(1s less than the max) but at the same time provides an entire rune set at your disposal which can do much more damage than that extra 1s tick.

Hope I helped!

Are you sure it rounds up? I’ve never really paid attention to that close of a duration, and always opted to hit the 75% mark when striving for a lot of duration.

No it doesnt round up, it only rounds down. 6.9 second is still 6 bleed ticks.

Haha makes me giggle every time I see thief doing that. I would say that happens in most of dagger thief encounters

Its not buged. You cant feel it much out of combat because of movement speed cap. Full effect (50%) can be felt only in combat, because base speed drops in combat. End of discussion.

Siva Mira.3546:

Incoming more Warrior and Necromancer buff.

Last Refuge is perfectly fine it is just people don’t know how to use it. Who tell you that a Thief can fight? Your job is to carry a bow and running around. You people should start watching some tournament games on stream. We are not fighters, we are thiefs.

Spvp tournaments and www is completally different game. While in spvp team suffers from stealthing thief most of the time in www its bread and butter for thief. and Last refuge simply dont work with stealth heavy builds. When x/d thief drops low hp its first reaction wont be to run while being visible ( shadowstep on cd), it will be to stealth and gtfo, in most cases by using CnD on closest target, couse there is no kitten visible cooldown on last refuge, so its not reliable.