I do want to point out that Not the Beard was in Moria not Helm’s Deep, but anyways…
I agree that we are close in perspective. Core Tyria was definitely too happy-go-lucky. Minus the death of the mentor, very few of the deaths caused any sort of sadness or surprise, and many of the people that died in stories in Orr had absolutely nothing to do with my specific character and thus had no effect on me. The thing is, core Tyria is never going to change, at least not the personal story. So criticizing the original story isn’t going to help greatly, but instead letting them know your thoughts of where they went with HoT and what was a good or bad change will. I just hope they don’t go entirely dark. Hopeless scenarios can only last for so long before depressing me to the point hat I have to quit.
I would disagree with you. Not that the movie is vastly different from the book, it definitely is, though in the end in both scenarios Gimli won the kill count contest, if you watch the extended edition. But on the idea that it was comic relief done bad. Lord of the rings definitely didn’t reach a level of outright silliness in that scene, and it was merely a sense of jest between two characters slowly becoming friends.
Sadly, this is not the point of this conversation. I personally feel that Heart of Thorns was vastly darker than the core game, and I’m not sure that I want them going a huge amount darker, and the only real level of crazy silliness that I recall in the zones is Faren. I don’t know what over silliness that people want taken out.
There’s a lot of things that it could theoretically be. For some reason they make me think of the attunement stones used in Guild Wars 1 to attune the portal to the Henge of Denravi to the Shining Blade, but one thing to definitely note is that as it currently stands, both of the locations that have them were lived in by both the Forgotten and the individuals that eventually became Exalted (I think it mentions Guilded Hollow as the place where the ritual took place). So there is a very good chance that the crystals in he Guild Halls could possibly have some connection to Glint’s plan, or at the very least the magic of he forgotten.
I honestly almost wish that Braham had been a ranger instead of a guardian so he could find Garm and train him, but unless we start seeing people break profession lines in Guild Wars 2, that doesn’t seem likely.
Why would Garm need trained?
Also, He’s never seen in the Pact camp at Resolve, so he was likely never with the fleet in the first place.
As of right now, he’s alive unless Anet comes out and says something different.
What I mean by trained is that Garm would have to be trained to the point that he would trust and look up to Braham. I say this because in general, Braham is mostly a stranger to Garm. He wasn’t really around Eir and Garm very much before her death. And Garm followed Eir, based on he books, because he saw her as his alpha, and he would have to be made to view Braham in this way. This would take some time and effort.
What would the battle for Helm’s Deep be without Legolas asking Gimli if he should describe it for him or find him a box, or their kill count competition. He problem is finding out a good equilibrium between he comic and the dark.
Well, I think by now it has been thuroughly pointed out how wrong I was, thanks.
Anyways, it could be an interesting story seeing what comes of Garm and how me reacts to Braham. Perhaps Rox can have a hand in teaching Braham how to tame Garm.
Konig, most of the time Ogden is mentioned as the Last Dwarf it’s by himself isn’kitten If so, this could merely be an assumption on his part because the lack of evidence that they have survived since he left them. Based off of what we’ve seen it seems like they went into a situation which he didn’t expect them to survive, but he wasn’t there to see them fall himself.
Yeah, Konig, I know about Keiran, that’s why I specifically mentioned in Guild Wars 2, not Guild Wars 1. I personally saw Keiran more as a situation where his Secondary profession started to become of primary importance, and he finally started shifting to the point where he became a paragon. Sadly, as of Guild Wars 2’s time there are no secondary professions. So I would imagine that shifting professions would be a much more difficult undertaking. I think Canach stands out as an example of how it’s possibly done. He was forced to run and use everything at his disposal to survive. He doesn’t have a specific profession because he was forced to become a jack of many (not all) trades to survive so he’s different. I could possibly see this as leading up to the point where we get the second elite specialization for Guardian, having something to do with Braham and Garm.
I honestly almost wish that Braham had been a ranger instead of a guardian so he could find Garm and train him, but unless we start seeing people break profession lines in Guild Wars 2, that doesn’t seem likely.
Again though, the rite of the Great Dwarf changed the race, and the individuals changed too. Their personalities changed, and they became focused on a specific goal, almost to a fault. Ogden’s Eulogy could be read as a Eulogy for the dwarf that King Jalis was before the rite changed him. Plus the book itself does not claim to know the result of the charge into the destroyer nest. We have no absolute proof of the death of King Jalis.
Yeah, like Jaken says, the mists connect to all places and all times, so you can find echoes of people not even born yet in your time, it could honestly be possible to find an echo of yourself, I believe.
The real question is, if he’s alive (which I would assume, since they didn’t just give us a corpse) what are they going to do with him.
The problem is that an Asura would likely say it matter of factly whether or not it was common knowledge just so that others continue to assume they are inferior for not having automatically known what was necessary.
Who knows. Perhaps the future PC’s actions kills Scarlet before she starts doing anything big, meaning that her steam creature designs are either lost or destroyed and in the wreckage the future PC gets what they need to create Steam Creatures of their own?
They predate humans by a long shot.
Fly you fools!
Need more characters…
Not to mention, if the Mouth of Mordremoth was still alive even though his mind was dead, then likely some of the vines that crept beneath the earth could still be alive as well (no 100% sure of this after the lifeless vine in the raid though). His means they might have the opportunity to attack Rata Sum in a similar fashion to be way they attacked the Pact Fleet, dragging it to the ground.
I think a likely option is that all of the seeds in that cave were freed from corruption like the pale tree, possibly similar to how Glint was freed, then it is likely that the guardians may have planted them. Or perhaps others may have.
I say that because it requires more than tenents to overcome corruption.
(edited by Narcemus.1348)
I would say one way you could explain the Asuran Warriors that we find would be the results of mixed feelings about Golems after the Great Golem Uprising?
Well, the account of the Seraph in Brisban Wildlands is not necessarily incompatible with what we know from Guild Wars 1. The flight of the king does not necessarily mean that there wasn’t some form of government left behind that the White Mantle overthrew when they seized control. That hypothetical caretaker government could have been so ineffective that replacing it was objectively the right thing to do, but nevertheless…
Another thing to consider is that we’re basically taking the Prophecies Manuscripts at their word that the king fled of his own volition. That’s what the Shining Blade believed at the time, but they may have found evidence to the contrary after the War in Kryta. Given that the mursaat were able to go pretty much where they wanted undetected until they started facing Ascended opponents, it would have been very easy for the mursaat to have… removed the royal family to make way for the White Mantle.
Already posed that theory. Some people just didn’t like it…
Just entering the Mists is obviously not enough to make someone a revenant. Our characters have traveled into the mists all the time through the use of asura gates into WvW and Heart of the Mists, not to mention the Fractals of he mists. Something else must have happened to Rytlock.
Some people theorized that the dragons and the gods were the same, but that theory has been squashed so many times it’s crazy. There are very few good correlations between them, and the fact that we can at least get some confirmation from the story that Grenth, at least, is still out there and is not pleased with Zhaitan’s work seems to point to them being separate beings.
Interesting and cool dream, though obviously highly unlikely to be true. Fun read though!
That’s not true at all, Narcemus. Necromancers in Tyria and Elona deal with souls a lot:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rites_of_Remembrance
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Crypt-ology
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ghosts_in_the_GraveyardThis has remained true in GW2, though is most evident in the Priests of Grenth (whom are usually necromancers – like Priestess Rhie).
Sorry Konig, I screwed up. What I meant was mostly that in the creation of minions and such Necromancers (at least PC Necromancers) reanimate the flesh without the soul in general. I did not mean that they don’t deal with souls, even though when re reading that is exactly what I said, I merely meant that unlike Zhaitan or Joko who seems to imbue souls into the bodies of it’s undead, Necromancers seem not to do such. Even powerful ones such as Verata seem not to imbue their minions with souls.
But yes, Necromancers do deal with souls.
Necromancers generally do not deal with the souls, but with the left over flesh. Only he extremely powerful liches or Zhaitan would bind souls to the reanimated corpse. The only possible grey area is the example of the shade that you can create as a Necromancer. So you can almost think of a Necromancer as you would an elementalist to a sense, only their element is living (or dead) flesh. In some races Necromancers actually are seen as relatively good in the same general sense as morticians and possibly priests.
Yes, spirits are a form of energy in some form. Back in the original game krytans were sacrificed upon he bloodstone, not to charge the bloodstone though, but used the bloodstone to take the souls of the dead and place them within the soul batteries used to keep the Portal to the foundry of failed creations closed. Similarly souls were also fished out of the river of souls and consumed as well in Nightfall. Based off of what I have heard it seems that they are using souls to heal or power up someone, many assume to be the last known remaining Mursaat, Lazarus the Dire. So my guess is that the souls do not have any effect of the bloodstone, but that the bloodstone is a means of collecting the souls of those killed on it. As to how magic is charge in a person, I have no clue.
It’s not greed, it’s a time and energy thing. Outfits are easy for them to create because they are designed to work together. It’s hard for a game designer to design a shoulder piece so work with every other chest and helm and backpiece that it could conflict with. It’s easy when it all comes together in one set designed to work together.
Isn’t that how things are in real life? We’re the British the evil overlords that we Americans learn in high school history that they were? There is bias in everything, as the Priory scholars say, “History never lies, Historians however…” I honestly think that this gives us a richness of lore. As it forces you to truly grapple with the legitimacy of the claims of one individual over another. And it has been around since the beginning of Guild Wars 2, with the revelation that the gods did not, indeed create the world.
I think that there were a few parts of the story that really got my attention. The first was when Eir died, I kind of expected it the way things were moving, but at the same time I was like “no, this can’t be”, kind of like Han Solo…
Then in a different way seeing the new Faolain gave me goosebumps. That one was hard to digest for a little bit, just how monstrous Mordremoth can be. But like a majority of players, my favorite and probably most enjoyable and probably angering part was in hearts and minds when Mordremoth tried to use Seiran against me, but of course I got her to join me in fighting him.
I could still see opportunities for Malyck’s Pale Tree to come into the picture. Not only are we still, according what we know, located in he jungle having defeated Mordremoth, which gives us the capability to stumble upon it, but there is the war against Sylvari which was hinted upon but has not yet been touched upon. I could easily see us being besieged in the Grove with them coming as allies to help, or us havin to stop a group from going to take them out.
From the wiki. Pretty much states that he comes from another tree.
"
Trahearne: This is the place. The Knight of Embers will be waiting to meet the grand duchess. If she is allowed to tell Faolain the truth, the results will be disastrous.
Malyck: Why, Trahearne? What aren’t you telling us? This is my life! I deserve to know the truth!
Trahearne: You’re right, but yours isn’t the only life in danger. I’ll tell you the truth, and then, you must make a choice.
Trahearne: My research has led me to believe that the Pale Tree is not a unique creature. Legends say her seed is one of many, found in a cave.
Trahearne: That cave has never been found, but it seems at least one of those other seeds was planted. It sprouted the tree which bore you, Malyck.
<Character name>: If that’s true, there could be other cities of sylvari. Other Groves…
Trahearne: Groves untutored by Ventari’s tablet. Do those sylvari dream, I wonder? What inspires them?
<Character name>: If Faolain finds out, she won’t need the Grove. The court will burn the Pale Tree to the ground and find one they can more easily twist to nightmare.
Trahearne: Yes. If that happens, the sylvari race will be no more. Tyria will fall into darkness.
Malyck: No! I won’t let that happen. If I must die to keep this secret, I will do so.
Trahearne: Then we have only one option. The Knight of Embers must die"
Apologies Konig, I guess I wasn’t clear. I’m fully aware that the White Mantle didn’t declare war on Jadon and conquer him or anything, I was merely stating that it was quite possible that Mursaat or White Mantle spies could have had something to do with Jadon’s fleeing the country, so think stealthy and back handed. Spies seems unlikely due to how the White Mantle seemed to be prior to Saul being taken away, but it is a possibility that there were members of the organization more loyal to the “Unseen Ones” than Saul. My whole point is that there really is room for ArenaNet to fill gaps within that period because we were not present to witness it and it is basically word of mouth.
Heck, I just thought about this, but for all we know he story of he royal family fleeing at the sight of the charr armies could have been white mantle propaganda used to justify their existence within Kryta.
You know, here is nothing to say that this couldn’t be potentially true. The information that we have about the krytan royal family fleeing the Charr is only second hand. We do not see it for our own eyes. I would put it on the same level of the information that we have on the gods creating Tyria, which is untrue according to GW2 lore. Until Bobby just quasi confirmed it to be true, there was always potential room for the White Mantle or Mursaat to have had some hand in he disappearance of the Krytan Royal Family.
I don’t think that Malyck shows that theory to be wrong necessarily. There is nothing to state that humans weren’t involved in the planting of Malyck’s tree as well. It is too up in the air, since we do not know where it exists.
On the conversation of an evil Priory, I could honestly see the possibility of an Evil Priory arising, or already existing within the ranks, but to call the Priory itself evil is ridiculous. They are far too goody-two-shoey to be that way, especially having a priory character main. The existence of he Abaddon statue does seem strange, but at the same time it makes sense. They are historians, and they protect historical objects, whether they be of good or bad things, plus it’s at the entry of a secret area, thus it makes even more sense being the God of Secrets.
I highly doubt that BuddhaKeks is claiming that Christianity is a myth, Emiko. I would say that most people are smart enough not to broach critique of religious views on these forums (at least not RL religious beliefs). I think he is merely using he term mythology to classify Christian lore on angels and demons, something which I as a Christian do not take any offense to. Anyways, probably best if the conversation gets back to In game lore and not RL lore. Because honestly they don’t mesh.
Now we see if the current races can succeed where the Elder Races failed. It seems like LSS3 could very much be Guild Wars 2: Civil War.
True, I guess that is also a possibility. I guess there is no point debating this any further seeing as until ArenaNet gives us more information on the subject it is nothing more than speculation.
I personally understood it as the Maw was alive in heir first encounter, and became risen due, in part, to Zhatian’s Tidal Wave. But I do no know that for certain. I don’t recall whether the original description detailed anything risen like.
The idea that they just spirit themselves away when they come under threat of destruction doesn’t jive well with the destruction of the Staff of the Mists that we dealt with in Nightfall. I mean it was supposedly sister to the Scepter of Orr, so he idea that it could not do the same and save itself from destruction seems unlikely. I think it is far more likely that there was something else, Glint perhaps, that ended up saving those artifacts.
Hey, I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but the last two times that I have fought Tequatl my game client has crashed at the exact second that we defeated him. This has caused me to miss out on the Dragon Chest twice now because of this fault, making me miss out on my scarcely few chances at getting a sunless weapon. Please fix this!
Koro Sagewind summoned an entire illusory army that kept an army of charr busy for days, if I remember right. There are some really incredibly talented characters out there…
In all technicality, we do not have enough history on the past of ANY of the other races to know in all certainty that they originated on Tyria either. As everything is currently presented any of the other races could be said to have been brought to Tyria as well and it would not make any of the current game lore incorrect.
The Priory as an organization may not hate them, but it is obvious that individuals do. Similar to how humanity on a large scale doesn’t care much about the charr. Sure you have the small Ebonhawke group that hates them, but for the most part, charr are a distant threat to humanity. Centaurs are more the enemy to be despised.
I think the reason the Priory is considered the good guy in the scenario (where I’m certain ‘evils’ were done on both sides) is they are the ones that I could see most willing to give up a grudge and put differences aside. I personally see that being harder for the dredge. I can understand how the dredge got to be how they are, they’ve had a rough life as a race, but that doesn’t forgive the way in which they’ve decided to react to it.
Basically reading this I’m of the opinion that both sides are in the wrong to one degree or another, and in all honesty that is just life when it comes to warfare. Could the Priory or Norn have taken a better attitude towards the Dredge? Yes! Could the Dredge have taken a better attitude towards outsiders? Yes! It’s very similar to the hatred between humans and charr. The humans of GW1 hated the charr for destroying Ascalon, the charr of GW1 hated humanity for taking Ascalon a millenia before. The hatred continued because both sides killed each other, it is very similar to the Priory/Dredge conflict. If the Priory got in contact with the rebel dredge in Frostgorge, I would expect the Priory to put their best foot forward in reconciling with the race.
As for why the Naga are hostile in Factions when they were mentioned as being peaceful before the Jade Wind:
“Tyrian visitors claim that the serpentine Naga resemble the Forgotten of the northern continent, but the two species are unrelated. Like the Wardens, the Naga people lost their homes when the Jade Wind struck. But the Naga population—water-dwelling creatures related to sea snakes which evolved a culture at peace with humans—was nearly wiped out by Shiro’s death wail. Thousands became one with the sea when it turned to gemstone. Hundreds more, mostly traders or mercenaries, died with the humans of Cantha on land. The only Naga that survived were those far enough away not to be trapped in the water when it turned to jade, and those survivors—only a few dozen in number—were scattered and terrified.
If not for a Naga priestess named Hanasha Coralfin the entire race might well have died out within a few years, perhaps even a few months. The priestess used what power she had left to revive those survivors she could find, who then brought more survivors to her, until a united Naga tribe of barely 40 individuals gathered. Under her guidance, the Naga abandoned their ancient moral codes and began to propagate freely and often, so that someday they might make the humans pay for what they had done.
Now, 200 years later, the Naga are nothing like the peaceful culture that shared the coast with the Canthans of old. They have aggressively taken back whole stretches of crystallized sea and petrified coastline from the humans, and make any journey through the Jade Sea even more perilous."
Basically they are great and terrible threats, but they are distant. It isn’t until they come a knocking (aka fall of claw island) that they become the serious threat that they truly are. Well in this instance that specific one is, lol. I think, personally, that the game does a good job of really showing the ignorant mindset of the PC as they go through and slowly learn. I mean, it’s similar to how charr have always been a major threat to humanity, but if you ask people around Divinity’s Reach, they are far more likely to see the Centaurs as a threat then the Charr.
Personal opinion in comparison to what you’ve written:
Looks 5 – I have word from girls I know who play the game that he is indeed a 5 out of 5, although at least one of these also seemed to think Jurah (old Master of Whispers) was a 5/5 as well, so take that as you see fit, lol.
Adaptability 3 – He is shown in Edge of Destiny to be actually quite adaptable, allowing him to set up traps for a charr army, and keeping his men alive longer than seemed possible against terrible odds. On top of that, he overcame his distrust in charr and was able to make multiple wise choices in the fights against the Elder Dragon champions. For all of those I would give him a 5, but the recent story has crippled him slightly. After he made a choice that lead to a friend’s death, it seems to have slowed his actions, made him think too hard before acting, and tied him to one location. He has to keep the queen alive not only because he loves her, but because letting her die would mean that Snaff died for nothing as well, and he couldn’t bear that burden. We see him regain a little bit of his adaptability during the end of the PS, and a little bit of his clingy-ness to the queen in the LS, so I give him a 3 (thinking hopefully for his development). I like to personally believe that his clingy-ness in the LS is a result of ArenaNet’s “happening at the same point as the player’s story” stance.
Strength 4 – I mean, having the ability to 5 man two Dragon Champions (Morgus Lethe required the Lion’s Arch navy’s assistance) gives a man a lot of credibility in the strength department. On top of that, he is able to make his own decisions on the best way to protect the queen on the Seraph around him. Remember, having your agenda being “Protect the Queen” is different from always following the Queen’s word as law.
Value 4 – Really? You don’t see his value? He’s lead the Seraph in rooting out corruption in the nobility, stopped bandit plots, helped in the rescue of Queen Jennah at Caudecus Manor, shielded the players from the powers of Gaheron Baelfire, rallied the troops of Ebonhawke and freed the charr captives to fight against Kralk’s minions giving Jennah the time she needed to save them all, has killed multiple Dragon Champs, and sacrificed himself to let us get away to fight Zhaitan (the fact that he survived sacrificing himself is beyond the point). He’s proved himself multiple times to be more of an asset then a burden, and I would like to point out that many of these instances were when he was in his “brainwashed by his love for Queen Jennah” state.
Emotional Connection 3 – He is fully devoted to Queen Jennah, and I’ll agree that he’s quite a bit too devoted to her, which is why I give him a 3 instead of higher. Queens need people who are willing to challenge their choices in order to keep testing their convictions on the right course of action. But Queen Jennah makes it obvious in, at least the personal story that I went through, that she very much loves him, but with the corruption in the Ministry she cannot marry him and give them a foothold against her, especially when she can see the terrible path they would lead the nation down.
Goals 2 – I’ll give you that he is a bit one tracked here. In Edge of Destiny, he never really held long term goals, he mostly just tried to live in the moment. Then he met Jennah and she became everything for him. I can’t say he is wrong in his devotion for her, but I will give it to you that he doesn’t have any personal goals, but seems to put her goals at the forefront.
Authenticity 4 – I read this definition differently then you, perhaps, but Logan appears to be exactly the same person on the inside and out. He is not deceptive in any way that I can see.
Self Worth 4 – You don’t think Logan has confidence? He obviously knows that he’s an excellent fighter, and makes many decisions pretty fast (though obviously letting the PC choose once and a while for mechanics reasons). You think that just because he loves a woman who can’t marry him he has low self worth, that is not the case. Because she loves him back, but she has to put her people above herself.
29/40 – I guess I like him better then you do.