Guild Wars 2

Malediktus.3740:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Malediktus.3740:

So why should Anet provide permanent ones if they will make more money in the long run with consumable ones?

Technically it could bring other people to spend money on those things, increasing their profit while losing profit from him.
I heavily doubt this will ever happen though because rip food otherwise.

The people who dont buy the current primers will also not buy permanent primers for hundreds of dollars each. Maybe they could be a super rare drop from black lion chests (even more rare than the permanent contracts)

Cecilia.5179:

What about a primer that costs 20-50s each time you use it? It would be amazing for expensive food but it would keep food from dropping below a certain price point. Why should food be expensive anyways? It’s kinda ptw when the food is insane like mussels gnashblade

1) food are part of the economy and already very low profit to craft at the moment, so if anything Anet should find way to increase profits from cooking
2) 1g for food per 30min is not expensive nowadays if you make 10g+ per hour

I really was just assuming he’s throwing random numbers around and a permanent one would be differently priced. Permanent ones from the BLTC could be an option, yeah. Still doubt it.

Malediktus.3740:

So why should Anet provide permanent ones if they will make more money in the long run with consumable ones?

Technically it could bring other people to spend money on those things, increasing their profit while losing profit from him.
I heavily doubt this will ever happen though because rip food otherwise.

The new tiles are so much better and I have no issues with them to be honest.

Ubi.4136:

Let’s just hope/pray that their new focus on quality content quickly means that no more raids will be added.

The raid team has been seperately hired just to work on them and, on top of that, is a small group which only focuses on this. Never has work on raids meant progress on other content fell flat. Next raid will most likely be released next month. If it’s not next, it will be december. November is probably going to be it though.

Ohoni.6057:

Lets be fair here: Anet is already struggling to deliver one three armor sets (light, medium, heavy) and adjusting them for each race + both genders. What do you think would happen if they had to make an unique design for each race + gender + armor weight? Those would never see the light of the day.

Well, to be totally fair, it’s impossible that it’s actually taken them this long just to model the three sets of armor, that would represent a huge malfeasance on the part of the design team to waste thousands of man-hours on so little. What likely held up the works was the technology involved in making the armor capable of being animated, and then actually implementing those animations. The underpinnings of the armor probably took the bulk of the time. Once those underpinnings are in place, designing and modeling the actual armor itself should be fairly straightforward.

I guess those are fair points, but I still fear it’d take them a good amount of time. On the other hand, making them cultural could possibly sort out some issues they’d otherwise have. However, in the case of cultural armor they’d either have to massively cut down the price for one set or let you unlock all sets of one weight class with one craft, then let you pick the race you want. That would likely cause issues too.

Necros are pretty much kittened imo
Why would you bring one now?
You have about 20k dps, epi bounces (aka 2+ necros) aren’t going to make up the dps you lose by bringing two necros instead of other classes. Blood magic is okay, but by no means extremely strong support outside of the transfusion teleport, which can shine at matthias. At said boss you can still transfer a fair amount of conditions with traited suffer, deathly swarm etc. but that’s about it. Outside of Matthias plague signet is decent in some fights and then there’s those where almost to no condis are in play. At Xera you most definitely wouldn’t pick a necro now if you want to keep her on spot. KC never was condi necro land, at VG they could technically still be taken for circle-duty if you run them. If you need add clearing, you got enough other ways to do so which work just as well.

Ardid.7203:

Legendary Armor not being cultural: 0/10 (Seriously, stop)

Lets be fair here: Anet is already struggling to deliver one three armor sets (light, medium, heavy) and adjusting them for each race + both genders. What do you think would happen if they had to make an unique design for each race + gender + armor weight? Those would never see the light of the day.

Obtena.7952:

AndyS.5630:

Obtena.7952:

Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage.

If being within 5% with only self-buffs isn’t competing, I don’t know what is.

Axe is within 5% of the highest Necro DPS builds? Nice … when did you do that calculation?

When I tried around with Axe with GS with realistic raid buffs (no alacrity) I think I ended up at around 16-17k, Dagger with GS was 19k+

That was while I was extremely tired though, so my rotations weren’t perfect (also only truffle steak, no seaweed salad). It is kind of close, but in real scenarios things always look a bit different, as usual.

//that’s when also taking the axe trait (unholy fervor) in spite, but that should go without saying.

Walhalla.5473:

Being useful without getting nerfed after a Year.

kittening beat me to it
kittenmit

But yeah want them to work on base necromancer first to fix some of the problems it has, including bad/way too important traits and skills.

If we’re on about scourge I really just want some good skills for the torch for condis, as for the utilities I’m not even sure what’d fit, traps maybe?
I’d like to see a good mix between power and condi-favoring stuff there, with each (or at least some) trap(s) applying an unique debuff ranging from increased damage on the target to more “intricate” things which ruin people’s day. 100% uptime shouldn’t be achieved of course unless a large amount of necros decide to perfectly chain those debuffs.
The elite should be something that works with both condi and power, possibly applying some conditions with a bit of power damage and making it difficult for them to get out of there (how about disabling movement skills and blocks inside the trap? The cd for it would be long anyway and the radius most likely wouldn’t be huge, so it’d most likely be balanced, considering you also have to get close to the nec).
For the shroud I don’t even know what I’d like to see, but it’s probably follow roughly the same “theme” in terms of skill effects as the other shrouds. Should just work well.
Regarding traits I’d like to see something that boosts damage for the necro (and possibly allies) who stand inside his AoE’s (this would include wells, cpc and, in theory, nightfall, though that won’t work as you couldn’t equip GS with this) or make enemies inside his AoE’s more vulnerable to damage (this would not only favor chaining AoEs for maximum uptime, but would also tremendously help us in PvE), a trait that gives CDR on whatever skill type we get + one that’s related to our new weapon, i.e. most likely torch, grandmasters that work well in different situations (Reaper actually did that pretty well, Blighter’s for PvP and WvW, Deathly Chill worked everywhere I’d assume, the new one is mostly PvE & PvP I guess and Reaper’s Onslaught is a PvE Open World and WvW thing) and minors that aren’t trash.

I know this sounds like a lot of powercreep but lets be fair, all elite specs most likely will be and it’s not like they’re gonna give base necro anything meaningful at this point.

As my last post got deleted I’ll say this again in a different way:

4 Nec + 1 Druid is not the only way to play fractals, it’s a boring, safe way that takes forever and the druid in that comp is now outdated anyway.

If you’re talking about social awkwardness ticks, each hit from social awkwardness takes 10% of your max hp and applies a stack of agony, so at worst you’d lose 20% health + some minor damage from agony. If it’s other skills that hit you, you should have dodged or negated the hit otherwise.
Nemesis is not a good source of information as he heavily tries to twist numbers into his favor and comes up with things that simply are not true. From what I know he also stopped making videos long ago, so all of his content should be outdated by now (thankfully) – Besides, if every build was equally good at handling every situation, they might as well remove all skills besides one set of fixed skills because it wouldn’t matter at all. Requiring different things for different situations is good, this is calling adapting and something you should be able to by the time you hit t4 fractals.
The problem here is simply that you are not good enough for t4 fractals as it stands. Tons of people complete them daily in all kinds of weird and sometimes utterly ineffective comps without having many issues, so no, it’s not that the fractals are over the top – and as it has been said, old 50s were more difficult than current high scales.

I’d also like to add something in response to your “trying to run them with anything else is pointless. and that is the problem if you can not see that then you are as blind as ANET” but I’d rather not get my post deleted again, so I’ll just say that neither of us are blind and fractal difficulty is not over the top.

There are still rooms with way too much lighting, one of them currently being Tears of Itlaocol. The big problem here is that it renders the mini dungeon impossible to finish as you can’t see the the lights on the skull as seen on the picture. Kinda problematic since multiple collections need this. Turning down gamma doesn’t help either as a personal band-aid fix, sadly.

Berserker or Valkyrie really doesn’t matter, if you’re somewhat comfortable with the encounters you won’t really need the extra vitality and you don’t need more life force as you have enough LF generation and going into shroud as power costs you some dps anyway.
If you want a second set though or exclusively want to raid with the character, you might as well mix valkyrie in, it wouldn’t hurt you at least.
//Oh yeah the sharpening stones perform a little bit better with valk mixed in, forgot about that for a second.

Vaelen.5294:

Necro wasn’t nearly as nerfed as bad as the Rev.

Uhm lol no

Rednik.3809:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Not if it takes 4 times longer to develop, for example.
Also, it’s nice that you always come up with those numbers but they might not be true in the slightest.

Even if there was an easier mode, the raid would still have to be challenging to a degree, which might still be too difficult for some. Then there’s also the no-reward fact (or heavily lowered at least), which will put people off from clearing it on low difficulties more often than necessary.

A lower difficulty merely gives people throwaway content, so there is no point in pursuing multiple difficulties.

Feel free to visit gw2eff and see numbers by yourself.
Also, looks like you don’t understand a purpose of tiered difficulty. Lowest difficulties are not intended to be farmed, hence their low rewards, they are made to bridge a difficulty gap for starters and saturate higher tiers with a new blood. “Muh training runs/muh training guilds/start your own group/l2p” is a band-aid, and it’s not working.
People desperately need repeatable content to play, and making it only for 10% of players… well, you can go to NCSoft website and see it by yourself.

“Hey guys lets a take a website only a small part of the playerbase uses with no possibly way to check if the distribution between different types of players is equal or if a certain type of player uses this website more often and use it to extrapolate it for the whole game” – Now, I’m aware that this is something you can do, is something that can work more often than not and GW2eff is our best way to do this… it’s just that I don’t think it’s accurate in any way. Assuming your numbers are true though, then yes, the 10% are definitely not randomly pulled from somewhere; the 30% however would be.

Oh, I do understand the purpose of tiered difficulty, but I do not think it’s necessary whatsoever. If you think running raids with guilds/teaching groups is a bandaid which is not working I’m sorry to disappoint you. Posted this a bit earlier in another thread but basically the tl;dr to it: below average friend gets back into game, finds guild, they set up training raid, 6 people never did raids, 3 have a bit of experience, me (with quite a bit of experience); I barely said anything, let them do their thing, ended up with suboptimal comp and mostly average at best players, VG died 2h later. Another hour of attempts later, Gors was dead too. I know other players who found their way into raids like this too, it definitely works. However, one should not assume that the guilds or teaching groups come up to you; you have to go up to them, ask and be willing to adjust if necessary as they are most likely to adjust around you too.

I personally think that almost everyone who plays this game is capable of clearing raids if they want to. Everyone who truly wants to run raids and enjoy them will be able to without the “help” of an easy mode.

Absurdo.8309:

I hate these topics.

Zero constructive criticism.
Zero desire to join training runs.
Zero desire to start training runs.
Zero desire to find a guild to help.
Zero desire to improve.

ikr

“There is no teaching group on lfg so there is no way for me to learn”

Open up your own groups, search out a guild willing to help (there are plenty) etc.
Everything has been said a plethora of times.
Got a friend who really plays on and off while not being good at all (I’d argue he’s a bit below average), he got back, played a bit, got into a guild where they set up a raiding run. He asked me to join, so I did. Turned out six of them have never done VG before and the other three who were helping killing him at least a few times, had between 30-50 LIs. So basically I was the only one who was actually experienced in that group, but I didn’t even have to tell them much at all, they wanted to kill it and so they did, with a non-optimal comp and over half the squad having no raid experience whatsoever. None of them were great players either. Two hours later, VG was dead. Ended up killing Gors too after a hour of attempts.

Raids are very much accessible, you’re just looking in the wrong places.

Amaimon.7823:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Amaimon, did it come to your mind that the lower necromancer dps was offset by something else? It’s a fact we have lower dps now, so if everything else were to be the same it is impossible to clear in the same time. Your squad either stepped up their game and had better rotations and/or your rotation benefited from other changes that happened in this patch. Being closer to their original dps is more likely on VG though I guess.

In your case, it still doesn’t matter. What matters is that as a team you can clear the raid bosses, which i’ve seen with my own eyes is still very much possible if 20% of that setup is necro. The team effort undermines the individual effort. Maybe its something for pugs then, but if you play with friends or a dedicated raid guild like I do (RTI) its not a problem.

Well yes, but then we are back to the point that “everything works”. The issue is that necro REALLY falls flat in comparison to other classes and there are not many reasons to bring one now, none for plenty of encounters even. A class that’s difficulty-wise on par with half the other classes in the game while dishing out the same or even significantly lower damage and not bringing any utility to the table means necro is a in sad state. Doesn’t matter if you can still pick it or not, necro needs love because being the pretty much the bottom at everything is nothing that can be called balance. Not to mention the point of not wanting to cripple yourself by taking something that’s significantly weaker also holds true for plenty of people.

Rednik.3809:

maddoctor.2738:

I mean if 10% of the community is raiding, is allowing access to 30% of it considered acceptable? And if the first iteration of easier raids allows for 30%, will we see more of these “make raids easier posts?” Do we then make another even more easier version to increase the number to 50%, then an another one for 80% and so on? How many versions do we need?

Ultimately they are all questions that only the devs can answer. But it would be very helpful if someone who asks for an easier mode for Raids tries to address at least some of them.

If only 10% of community is raiding and we are not in game where these 10% are paying for 90%, then what exactly must be made to distribute content evenly? Stop developing raid content until 4 new fractals, 4 new pvp maps and 2 new wvw maps are made? Or maybe somehow widen raid audience instead, because value of content for 30% of players is 3 times higher than same content for 10% of players?

Not if it takes 4 times longer to develop, for example.
Also, it’s nice that you always come up with those numbers but they might not be true in the slightest.

Even if there was an easier mode, the raid would still have to be challenging to a degree, which might still be too difficult for some. Then there’s also the no-reward fact (or heavily lowered at least), which will put people off from clearing it on low difficulties more often than necessary.

A lower difficulty merely gives people throwaway content, so there is no point in pursuing multiple difficulties.

Amaimon, did it come to your mind that the lower necromancer dps was offset by something else? It’s a fact we have lower dps now, so if everything else were to be the same it is impossible to clear in the same time. Your squad either stepped up their game and had better rotations and/or your rotation benefited from other changes that happened in this patch. Being closer to their original dps is more likely on VG though I guess.

Cecilia.5179:

I think there might be more, but I’m not sure because this is profession balance, and we can only have a small handful of changes every 3 months, apparently.
I want more balance patches. I don’t play sPvP seasons, and the pace at which QoL for Necromancer changes, I’ll retired by the time we can see utility cooldowns in shroud.

I’m not even sure why we only get balance patches every three months. Iirc it’s in order to not upset the sPvP-season balance? While I don’t play LoL or follow it in any way, I’ve been told by some friends that the guys at Riot really don’t give a kitten and even make changes during the middle of huge international tournaments which could potentially shift balance by quite a lot. So if that is the only reason Anet is keeping back, they should probably not be so afraid as it’d be fine.

Cecilia.5179:

Looks great, how do I get it in WvW?
Oh wait, WvW doesn’t have nice things.

You have portable cannons though. :^)

I do hope they will add a PvP and WvW exclusive legendary armor (i.e. two different sets) later on. Then at least each game mode would have one set, at that point you’d just have to hope one of them doesn’t look like utter crap.

Obtena, what you are not realizing is that all classes should be within reasonable range of each other in terms of efficiency and that there should be enough playroom while still being close enough to the optimal option. This patch gutted a bunch of things or made them worse without really adding many new builds (Well I guess engis are picked more often now and interestingly enough, base condi rangers seem viable? That’s nice, yes.), so there’s a loss of builds, some on classes that didn’t even have many choices to begin with.
Sure, you could still go and clear with 10 necros, but the whole point of balance is to keep classes on a pretty much equal footing, with each class excelling in their specific area and thus making them better on specific encounters.

As for quickness, no, you definitely do not need it. Neither do you need might or fury. But since you have the option to take it and the gain you get from it is so immense, why would you not? That’s basically like having a fully functional car but instead of driving it up a hill, you decide to push it all the way up. People do not want to cripple themselves, neither in real life nor in games and if you think they’re to blame for that, then I’m not quite sure what to think.

It was always just the brain-dead simple solution. Never the best or fastest. Every class can do well (enough) in fractals.
Your PS warrior is perfectly valid, too.

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

Balancing shouldn’t be based on what is or isn’t meta. It should be based on the classes as a whole. There are a lot of players that are so fixated on the optimal builds that they forget those are not the only builds that can be successful. There could even be builds that are only suboptimal by a small degree.

Balance should be based around keeping all the classes on a same level so that it makes sense to pick either of them. This isn’t the case. I mean look at necro, they now had almost a year of being decent picks as condi, now they’re back to the shelves like it was for all the time before HoT-release (a place power necro never left, btw)

Which they could always improve on.

Have you seen the necro track record? It’s a mess. I’m maining this class since basically release and after we saw some light after all this time and they just burn something (admittedly cheesy) down without realizing that without it our dps is so trash there is practically no reason to bring us anymore. No group would willingly bring a class that supports in no meaningful way while also having low dps because it is simply detrimental and increases the risk of wiping. We can be glad if we still get taken at Matthias to handle the conditions.

Which is what I’m hoping that they look into with the next elite spec.

An elite spec should not be used to fix fundamental issues with a class. You use those to expand on a good base, thus hopefully making the elite spec attractive but not mandatory. That’s something they failed with most classes anyway.

Which is what they did with some classes. They came Rev a support role. They gave necro a physical damage role. They gave ranger a support role. Elite specs can easily be used to fill gaps that some classes have compared to others.

Giving a class a new option/way of playing through an elite spec is completely fine and should be the case. Trying to fix the existing mess of a class with an elite spec instead of fixing the problems at their root is not, neither is making the elite specs so strong that dropping them is rarely ever something to consider.

You said that “supports in no meaningful way” which was what I was addressing. I even bolded it to let you know that. That’s what an elite spec would provide.

Ah, apologies in that case. Bit late over here, didn’t notice you bolded out that part.

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

Balancing shouldn’t be based on what is or isn’t meta. It should be based on the classes as a whole. There are a lot of players that are so fixated on the optimal builds that they forget those are not the only builds that can be successful. There could even be builds that are only suboptimal by a small degree.

Balance should be based around keeping all the classes on a same level so that it makes sense to pick either of them. This isn’t the case. I mean look at necro, they now had almost a year of being decent picks as condi, now they’re back to the shelves like it was for all the time before HoT-release (a place power necro never left, btw)

Which they could always improve on.

Have you seen the necro track record? It’s a mess. I’m maining this class since basically release and after we saw some light after all this time and they just burn something (admittedly cheesy) down without realizing that without it our dps is so trash there is practically no reason to bring us anymore. No group would willingly bring a class that supports in no meaningful way while also having low dps because it is simply detrimental and increases the risk of wiping. We can be glad if we still get taken at Matthias to handle the conditions.

Which is what I’m hoping that they look into with the next elite spec.

An elite spec should not be used to fix fundamental issues with a class. You use those to expand on a good base, thus hopefully making the elite spec attractive but not mandatory. That’s something they failed with most classes anyway.

Which is what they did with some classes. They came Rev a support role. They gave necro a physical damage role. They gave ranger a support role. Elite specs can easily be used to fill gaps that some classes have compared to others.

Giving a class a new option/way of playing through an elite spec is completely fine and should be the case. Trying to fix the existing mess of a class with an elite spec instead of fixing the problems at their root is not, neither is making the elite specs so strong that dropping them is rarely ever something to consider.

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

Balancing shouldn’t be based on what is or isn’t meta. It should be based on the classes as a whole. There are a lot of players that are so fixated on the optimal builds that they forget those are not the only builds that can be successful. There could even be builds that are only suboptimal by a small degree.

Balance should be based around keeping all the classes on a same level so that it makes sense to pick either of them. This isn’t the case. I mean look at necro, they now had almost a year of being decent picks as condi, now they’re back to the shelves like it was for all the time before HoT-release (a place power necro never left, btw)

Which they could always improve on.

Have you seen the necro track record? It’s a mess. I’m maining this class since basically release and after we saw some light after all this time and they just burn something (admittedly cheesy) down without realizing that without it our dps is so trash there is practically no reason to bring us anymore. No group would willingly bring a class that supports in no meaningful way while also having low dps because it is simply detrimental and increases the risk of wiping. We can be glad if we still get taken at Matthias to handle the conditions.

Which is what I’m hoping that they look into with the next elite spec.

An elite spec should not be used to fix fundamental issues with a class. You use those to expand on a good base, thus hopefully making the elite spec attractive but not mandatory. That’s something they failed with most classes anyway.

Ayrilana.1396:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ayrilana.1396:

Balancing shouldn’t be based on what is or isn’t meta. It should be based on the classes as a whole. There are a lot of players that are so fixated on the optimal builds that they forget those are not the only builds that can be successful. There could even be builds that are only suboptimal by a small degree.

Balance should be based around keeping all the classes on a same level so that it makes sense to pick either of them. This isn’t the case. I mean look at necro, they now had almost a year of being decent picks as condi, now they’re back to the shelves like it was for all the time before HoT-release (a place power necro never left, btw)

Which they could always improve on.

Have you seen the necro track record? It’s a mess. I’m maining this class since basically release and after we saw some light after all this time and they just burn something (admittedly cheesy) down without realizing that without it our dps is so trash there is practically no reason to bring us anymore. No group would willingly bring a class that supports in no meaningful way while also having low dps because it is simply detrimental and increases the risk of wiping. We can be glad if we still get taken at Matthias to handle the conditions.

If they need to nerf us/classes in general in order to not make the power creep from new elite specs too strong then they should look at their elite specs and realize they’re an unbalanced mess which instead needs to be reworked, simply put. I really hope this is not the case.

Larger balance is definitely needed and they’ll hopefully finally adress at least some of the issues necro is suffering from (hah, as if) but for now it’ll be some dark months for necros in PvE, again. I’m happy we’re moving away from the whole “jagged horror are a good amount of our dps” thing, but just gutting that skill without compensating us otherwise just hurts badly.

Ayrilana.1396:

Balancing shouldn’t be based on what is or isn’t meta. It should be based on the classes as a whole. There are a lot of players that are so fixated on the optimal builds that they forget those are not the only builds that can be successful. There could even be builds that are only suboptimal by a small degree.

Balance should be based around keeping all the classes on a same level so that it makes sense to pick either of them. This isn’t the case. I mean look at necro, they now had almost a year of being decent picks as condi, now they’re back to the shelves like it was for all the time before HoT-release (a place power necro never left, btw)

Meh, not too hyped. As long as there’s enough people who enjoy it though, I can see how that design would appeal to others.

Rednik.3809:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Reasons have been mentioned plenty, in this thread and everywhere else. See some of the other responses.

And yes even if you might not believe it, it increases the development time by a huge amount and the raid devs do not want to sacrifice time for multiple difficulties in order to cater to a group of players that don’t want to raid anyway.

Every percent of players who started to do raids actually increasing value of development time spent on raids. Currently with less than 10% of players raiding regularly I have no idea why someone can even thought about raids being developed further than 4 wings total to finish legendary collection promised on HoT release. Developing content for tiny minority instead of majority is a pointless waste if development time, unless this minority is somehow paying money for everyone else.

I’m convinced the devs took that into consideration and realized that the value overall decreases still or it is not worth it. Also, raiders are usually more invested into the game, so keeping them in is definitely something to pursue. On top of that, the raid team is rather small compared to the rest of the company and has been specifically hired from what I remember, so they got new resources to work on raids instead of using existing ones. Sure, could argue now that they could’ve hired more devs for open world content, but having too many devs working on the same thing isn’t good either.

thewaterguy.4796:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

thewaterguy.4796:

I am so sick of this stupid argument, their is nothing to argue, Raids SHOULD have a story mode or easier difficulty like Fractals, The argument comes from a selfish place of wanting to be a special little snowflake that gets exclusive access, the argument that it would take away from Raid development is kind of BS if you ask me, all they would have to do is change a couple of numbers around and it would open Raids up to be available to alot more players. I will never understand it, GW2 the MMO that has always stood for respecting a players time and everyone can enjoy the same content…is actively blocking people from raiding. And don’t even bother with the “your just mad” crap guys, my problem isn’t skill, my problem is lack of a group, and no I’m not interested in spending 5-7 hours in a single raid just to have everyone go “Oh well g2g guys bye!” ugh will Arenanet just add a difficulty selector already? I’m not even asking for the same rewards, I mostly would prefer to experience the story first hand

Please don’t bother offering me to join a group, I have put up with enough harassment and taunting from so called “Raiders” crying about how I can’t roll with them unless I have X Y Z A B C D G H L M and at least 2 of J and if I don’t have that I’m not “good enough” to be a raider…this is the type of garbage I play GW2 to avoid, and yet…here it is…

Your ignorance is astounding.

My ignorance…ok, you guys are bloody hilarious, the idea of people getting access to similar content as you just infuriates yah! And if anyone dares to call it what it is you can just safely ignore them!

Please give me one objective proven reason as to why I am wrong, because all I hear is raiders crying about “casuals” wanting to kill their precious exclusivity with nothing but vague excuses about how it would “ruin” raiding…somehow

Reasons have been mentioned plenty, in this thread and everywhere else. See some of the other responses.

And yes even if you might not believe it, it increases the development time by a huge amount and the raid devs do not want to sacrifice time for multiple difficulties in order to cater to a group of players that don’t want to raid anyway.

If you want to raid, there’s enough ways to get in without getting flamed (which, from what I’ve seen on the forums, sometimes is even exaggerated or even caused by the one complaining about being flamed due to bad behaviour on their part in the first place), but at the same time you need to be willing to adapt and change in order to contribute to your group as needed.

nekretaal.6485:

Robert Gee said, before HoT launch right here on these forums, that anet will never allow axe to be good because it is ranged but does have a dodge able/avoidable projectile.

So, OP, Axe will never be good.

I’m still baffled by that logic. Instead of reworking it in a way so that it can be good at something, they’d rather have it be kitten/mediocre just so it doesn’t have projectiles.

Lahmia.2193:

The areas of the game where Necros were faring quite well were:
Fractals: (5 condi necro meta was extremely common and and easy way to clear with pugs).
Raids: Again, they were purely used for condi because of Epidemic bouncing and they arguably had the highest condi damage, at range, on the easiest rotation of any profession. Also for party condi management via Plague Signet.
WvW: For staff/well bombing and condi bombing with epi.

Fractals: That only made necros as easy pick for lazy people, not a good or efficient way.
Raids: They had decent condi damage mostly due to the minions and epi bounces (the latter not being available in every fight) and I’d argue perfecting the condi necro rotation was more difficult than, for example, condi ps due to you having to know when exactly (not) to pop shroud as to get the most out of RS5+4 along with really not wanting to interrupt your auto-chain if it’s not necessary (aka good positioning is even more required than on other classes), obviously knowing what to pick when etc. Condi ps always felt a lot easier to me to get through with. Condi nec just had the advantage that it has a higher dps floor thanks to the minions, which is why I don’t mind them trying to move away from that. Just sucks big time we’re not getting kitten in return. Condi management was only really great at matthias.
In the end, in raids necro was a decent pick because it was capable of competing with other classes under the right circumstances but it never was the best pick or optimal for the most part, it was just a viable choice, in a good place indeed. That’s pretty much gone now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well new dps numbers are out for raids… necros have fallen to 20k… behind every class except mesmer, even lower than PS warrior.

You got a link to the new dps benchmark? Wasn’t able to find it.
20k for condi nec dps sounds about right though, considering the only change was the jagged horror nerf and we were hovering around 21k before. Sad times.

TexZero.7910:

or we could revert this balance patch………

and just straight up look at what’s holding other classes back and buff that aspect.

Yes please.
They basically put all my favorite builds into low to trash-tier, not happy at all about this. The whole thing seems like such a mess too.

dragonrage.8921:

The necro is a fun and entertaining class to play. Now not all people feel that way or even play to have fun but to be the most competitive and make the most gold… This is a GAME not a job, not a track meet where you get real life honor and physical trophy’s that you can hold in person. Stop thinking of GAME as a real life sporting event or a job, and you’ll relax and begin to enjoy your time in game not stress over it.

Now its never fun to play a job/class that’s not doing what you want it to do and there’s always that issue. That means its time to select another class and leave the old class alone so those that do still enjoy it can do so in peace. All this screaming “you ruined necro!!!”, “The games ruined forever!!!” only makes new and good existing players leave the game forever because of all the drama your creating. Please just stop move on and leave necro to those that still enjoy if you feel its broken. Go play your overpowered meta build and leave those of us that like necro alone.

I don’t get your view at this whatsoever.
People enjoy necro, they really do, otherwise we would not be complaining in the first place – If we didn’t care about what’s most likely one (if not the) favorite class of most of the players in this sub, we would just move on. Instead, we want necro to be better while trying to stick true to the idea behind it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Not to mention that complaints, as long as they have valid reasoning behind them, are very important, especially for the health of a game as if there’s no complaints devs might think they do everything right when if in fact everything goes south rapidly.
Of course there’s also those who enjoy necro and being efficient at the same time, which is how every class in the game ideally should be. Necro definitely has the fun part, but efficiency?

nightwulf.1986:

I’m going to hazard a guess and say the devs think that necros weren’t intended to have high uptime on over 10 jagged horrors. This was a scenario that was almost never present pre-hot. If they believe that, then there would be no need to compensate necros as the balance being done was reducing the edge case, overblown effectiveness of a skill in raids. Maintaining that number of jagged horrors is hardly done in open world, although in beta, people were achieving the same thing with the first iteration of “Rise!” before the minions became shambling horrors.

So if my theory is correct, it was emergent gameplay but unintended. Necros will need to adapt unless/until they give us another source of bleeds that is easier to balance. I may be wrong but it sounds reasonable in my head.

I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with their reasoning behind this change. The problem is that necro simply doesn’t have anything else to go with now. Yeah we still have epi, great, that’s still something you can’t use 100% of the time and you need 2+ reapers to bounce conditions, so why bother taking them in raids with the decrease in dps? Even in fractals it’s probably not a good pick anymore if you’re looking to do stuff at a reasonable speed (haven’t played mine since the patch besides some fooling around at the dps golem so I might be wrong about this, but considering what others said I most likely am not)

TexZero.7910:

Call me jaded, cynical whatever but the previous meta sans WvW (which will always be an impossible task to balance due to numbers) was the most healthy meta most gamemodes had seen. Sure some classes were under-performing but that is no cause for sweeping nerfs to how the game functions as a whole.

I definitely agree. The meta for PvE was in a good spot, there were tons of solid build choices which while not necessarily being optimal were still doing well enough to be picked regardless and it would’ve been easy enough to expand on. Instead, they decided to trash everything, gutting diversity in the process. Gonna be a few really unfun months, hopefully they’ll fix this mess in the next patch as I’m assuming they’d prefer to see how this plays out now and are not going to make any major changes, even though it would be necessary.

Sublimatio.6981:

Zanjii.8214:

I Run today t4 with 4 necs 1 druid , it was like pre patch , easy and half fast , i dont See a Problem here

why the druid though, you no longer need minions healed

The necros might die while rise is on cooldown. :^)

Ghataka.1604:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ghataka.1604:

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Condi necro had the advantages of being able to stack minions (which is now gone) and epidemic. Getting more dps out of simply spamming earth auto seems pretty bad, though. Have you been using vipers on each class? The damage never really excelled however as long as you didn’t have plenty of things dying around you over a long enough time while keeping minions alive too and/or had plenty of condis to gather from other sources and throw them back frequently on top. Basically it was alright dps with the benefit of epidemic shenanigans with the possibility to go even higher if the situation allowed for it.

Which is exactly why people are so kittened about the nerf of jagged horrors while not being compensated for it.

Yes, i’ve used viper, rabid and dire (separately). Since i only use the ele for farming i found dire was faster since facerolling>>viper. Dagger 5, signet of earth and autoattack + evasive arcana gets you 20+ stacks of bleeding in 5 seconds, but i rarely use bleeding since the mob in open world dies from the burns in one rotation and the cooldowns are pretty short with scepter/dagger.

So the condi necro main role in raids is killing the trash mobs with epidemic i assume? I knew about the stacking of minions, but i thought i was missing some mechanic or trait synergy. I’m fairly new to necro and i had the expectations a little too high since i always saw it as the main condi damage class (for the poison/blood theme and all the viper fuzz). I supose it needs a party for the good tics, so i’ll keep the zerker gear for now.

There’s a difference between what you can get as high and what you average on dps wise.
Necro never had good (condi) dps, the minions stayed alive for long (and thus providing more damage) due to heals from other sources, so it was basically all about a longer rampup that was worth it in the end. What people like to do is getting 2+ reapers and then using epidemic on the mob with the second reaper using epidemic on the trash in order to copy some of the conditions back onto the boss again. Reaper in raids can also help with conditions that are being thrown around by bosses, if there are any that could cause problems and/or worth taking advantage of for personal dps. They also have the advantage of being rather “easy” dps and being able to do almost everything from range, should it be required (Green circles at Vale Guardian where four people have to stand inside in order to negate damage, for example).
You might also have taken some not-as-good choices too of course, but I can’t know.

If you are mostly someone who enjoys running around in open world, doing small events and whatnot I’d suggest power necro instead like you plan on sticking to, works much better there. At this point there’s not even much difference between both builds dps wise, but power doesn’t have to deal with rampup (well, except you consider getting a decent damage boost on mobs below 50% a rampup)

Also having boons and everything helps of course, but that applies to every class.

Obtena.7952:

cranos.5913:

Obtena.7952:

afrocrusade.4253:

DeceiverX.8361:

SNIP

The manner of your typing is what’s pedantic. You say 10 words in 10 sentences. Brevity=soul of wit, blabla.

I don’t think people are being ‘non-brevious’ to avoid being witty. It’s not clear to people how you come to your conclusion about diversity dying … because of class equalizations. Diversity dies when people only want specific classes, which is what was happening due to OP’ed combos of effects. Anet reversed that … diversity should AT LEAST stay the same.

It doesn’t rly tbh because of how OP quickness is, and all other boons tbh. Not taking the buff classes (warr, druid, chrono) puts you at a severe disadvantage. It’s very much worth stacking them. So by nerfing chrono all they did was giving them an extra spot on a raid group.

No, I’m actually correct because you don’t need a Chrono to stack quickness on 10 players to be successful in raids begin with … Quickness being OPed doesn’t mean you need it for success, so yes, you can raid without it successfully and have a diverse team.

This is the same, incorrect mentality that meta lovers forced on players for dungeons … people didn’t need to play only meta builds to complete dungeon content either.

You don’t need druids either, nor do you need PS warriors etc.

However you get so much bang for your buck that you have to be dense not to take them with you.

Ghataka.1604:

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Condi necro had the advantages of being able to stack minions (which is now gone) and epidemic. Getting more dps out of simply spamming earth auto seems pretty bad, though. Have you been using vipers on each class? The damage never really excelled however as long as you didn’t have plenty of things dying around you over a long enough time while keeping minions alive too and/or had plenty of condis to gather from other sources and throw them back frequently on top. Basically it was alright dps with the benefit of epidemic shenanigans with the possibility to go even higher if the situation allowed for it.

Which is exactly why people are so kittened about the nerf of jagged horrors while not being compensated for it.

Malediktus.3740:

I still see people looking for only 4 necroes and druid for t4 fracs. So nothing changed?

Should keep in mind that pugs are generally slow to adapt, to the point where it takes them up to a year to drop old/useless things.

I’m quite sure the OP was posting nonsense here or only saw a single group posting that in their LFG. The necro hit definitely was less hard for fractals too, but still quite bad.
Also, it still is pretty safe, it’s just even slower than before, but there’s players who value just getting through safely over getting through in a reasonable amount of time so meh.

AriaFiresong.7023:

People who know things say the mini is an account-bound drop from the ToT bags.

Have there been any confirmations for this? Masterwork minis are often gemstore ones, and a halloween themed cat mini is something that would definitely rake in a whole lot of money.

Grats.

Gearing them won’t be difficult if you just stick to exotic gear. Ascended gear will definitely ramp up the price by a lot and everything beyond that even more so.

Mitch.4781:

Neither epidemic nor the minions needed a nerf. necro was still behind thief/guard and ele anyways in terms of pure dps. But whatever.

While the nerf wasn’t needed, I would very much prefer moving our damage from AI to our actual skills as to put more importance on active play and keeping your rotation right. Right now we just lost a sizeable chunk of dps with nothing to make up for it, though.

nightwulf.1986:

I keep seeing people complain about this nerf, but I’m curious, does anyone remember how “Rise!” functioned initially in beta before they changed it to what it is now? If I remember correctly, it used to spawn jagged horrors, and guess what happened. The devs noticed that people had ridiculous uptime with all the spawned jagged horrors and group healing. As a result, Rise! got changed to what it is now; damage reduction minions on a timer.

This change to Mark of Horror is totally in line with the change to Rise!. If anything, people should still be complaining about the change to Rise! but I suppose we all have short memories. Even I forgot until this patch reminded me.

I don’t think anyone is complaining about the fact we lost our minion uptime here. It just looks like this because it was the nerf we received and we didn’t get anything to keep our DPS on a similar level to before, so the first thing most people do is complain about the jagged horror nerf because that’s what they see and what’s causing the issues.

Walhalla.5473:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Walhalla.5473:

Ok tested the Condi Necro a bit. DPS on target Golem got cut to around 17- 18k ( can be queezed to 1 or 2k more by better Players than me ).
On smaller Fights Lich Form is more DPS than Fleshgolem but on longer Fights the Fleshgolem is quite a bit better on DPS as far as I see it in the Tests. ( difference is very low tbh ). Bit more testing needed but I think that Condi Necro is rip now ( Epi can make it useful perhaps but other than that, the dying Minions are too much of a DPS-loss. )

The change hit less hard for fractals than it did for raids due to the fights usually being shorter in the former, yes.
I personally don’t think necro is a good pick outside of matthias when it comes to raidbosses now, if you need condis engi and base ranger will probably be better, epi bounce strats didn’t really directly affected by this so in the end they’re still as valid on their own as they were before, the question being if it’s valid enough to take necros over something else for whatever may be needed.

Funny Thing is. Necros were alright in Raids but Fractal Players demanded a Nerf because of Epidemic. Now Necro got nerfed but it was on the Minions and not on Epi. A Nerf to Epi would have hit Necros harder in Fractals than in Raids because on many Raid-fights Necros can crap out Minions and they get good DPS because of it.

So People demanded a Fractal Nerf for Necro. They got a Raid Necro Nerf and Necros in Fractals are not really hit that hard. GG

People who demand an epi nerf are probably not even sure as to WHY they demand it. It transfers a maximum of 25 of each condition with each cast, you still have some ramp up time for the condis in the first place (even more so now since you can’t move minions between fights as they’re most likely dead by that point for whenever it matters) and trash in fractals dies fast anyway, so it didn’t make much difference. Not all bosses have adds or at least not constantly either. Then there’s the bit of coordination required which plenty of pugs didn’t have either, though that’s not something that should be taken into account in this case imo.
Moving away from our DPS being reliant in any way/amount on AI which was kept alive by other player(s) is a good thing, the problem is they didn’t make up for it in any way. 20s cd for BiP in PvE probably would’ve been over the top as that’d lead to 13s~ cd when traited, but we should’ve gotten at least something. I’m aware they need to make sure it’s not completely over the top in WvW/PvP, but yeah…

Walhalla.5473:

Ok tested the Condi Necro a bit. DPS on target Golem got cut to around 17- 18k ( can be queezed to 1 or 2k more by better Players than me ).
On smaller Fights Lich Form is more DPS than Fleshgolem but on longer Fights the Fleshgolem is quite a bit better on DPS as far as I see it in the Tests. ( difference is very low tbh ). Bit more testing needed but I think that Condi Necro is rip now ( Epi can make it useful perhaps but other than that, the dying Minions are too much of a DPS-loss. )

The change hit less hard for fractals than it did for raids due to the fights usually being shorter in the former, yes.
I personally don’t think necro is a good pick outside of matthias when it comes to raidbosses now, if you need condis engi and base ranger will probably be better, epi bounce strats didn’t really directly affected by this so in the end they’re still as valid on their own as they were before, the question being if it’s valid enough to take necros over something else for whatever may be needed.

MeinUguu.8256:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

I like how you give me kitten but don’t even know what I did or not did.
Why the kitten am I supposed to give a 10 page essay here on how you can port up with flesh wurm to the second switch before the drill room in underground facility after activating spectral walk, then porting back down in time after everyone is in?
I’ve helped a lot of people understanding necro better, but there is no reason to go out of my way to teach those who don’t ask simply because how often players get offended at making suggestions/giving tips, even if you are being nice.
If someone comes up to me and asks “hey you’re running this instead of that what I’ve seen there, why?” “hey how did you do this just now?” etc. then I’ll gladly tell them and help them improve and people did that in the past, same when I see people asking in map chat.

So don’t give me kitten for that.

I never said you yourself were part of that problem. But there has been an awful lot of people foaming at the mouth about how much of a professional superman they are at this game, and in the same breath refusing to spare even an idle tip to the people they see fit to berate over every little mistake.

Well it did sound like you were directly targeting me with that, nvm in that case.