Guild Wars 2

When you hover over it the text says

“Complete the trail of strength with no deaths”

but it should say

“Complete the trial of strength with no deaths”

to be in line with the text in the mission and the names of the other two trials.

No.

For a lot of players its already enough of a grind to get their ascended sets. And ANet has previously said they want to avoid turning this into yet another MMO where you constantly have to grind for more powerful gear. Buffing Legendary items would do nothing but convince players that they would have to grind for them. And it really wouldn’t be that much longer after that before the latest endgame content would start being designed around players having at least 1 legendary equip due to the added stats. This would drive a huge amount of people away from teh game

I think the number of weapon skills are fine as it is. Honestly there are already plenty for all the classes. Especially when you think about Elementalist who always has access to 40 weapon skills, Revenant who always has access to 10 weapon skills and 10 utility skills, engineer who always has access to however many skills his kits give him.

Aidan Savage.2078:

You should have been reading the news then. You had what, almost 3 months to buy a gift of battle with badges? Not anet’s fault you didnt buy it while you had the chance.

kitten I wish you people would think before speaking up. Yes ANet said that the vendor would be removed when reward tracks for WvW left Beta. But ANet never once announced beforehand when that might be. Not until the patch dropped and the vendor was actually removed did we learn that this was the patch where the reward tracks were leaving beta. We had absolutely zero information as to an actual date, merely that it would happen eventually.

But that still doesn’t excuse the fact that this was hidden in patch notes that were nearly 20 thousand words long. Forgive me and others for not having perfect memory and not remembering absolutely everything we read in a 20 thousand word document.

Would be nice to have considering both PvP and WvW offer repeatable reward tracks. Then again the argument can be made that they get reward tracks because that’s the only way to obtain the same amount of rewards in those game modes as you could earn by playing PvE.

I just wouldn’t want it to be a mastery line so much as a whole reward track system where you can pick which one you want to do when, but only if you can’t unlock another mastery line to work on (eg if you have finished all of them or don’t currently have enough mastery points to master the current one you are training and start training a new track)

Quite easily. The unrest is likely leading up to a revolt of some kind, but I don’t know who would be leading it. The ley energy is obviously just more dragon stuff. The unrest is the really exciting story because its something I didn’t see coming. pretty much anyone could have guessed that a dragon would be featured in some way in LWS3

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

why not make the legendary fractal backpiece in the a fractal reward track right? i mean pve players who plays fractal can go to pvp and get the pvp wing?why cant we do the same LOL

Yes…. PvE players who want the PvP backpack can go play PvP to get it. So PvP players who want the PvE backpack can go play PvE to get it

Jayne.9251:

Dear me. This thread makes me appreciate WvWers. Some of the comments are just unbelievable, coming from adults.

You think the WvW players are being any more mature than the PvE players? You must have been reading a different thread. The WvW players were the ones spouting off such gems as

“I had to suffer so its only right that you have to suffer too”

not the PvE players

@Jim Hunter – Its different to take away an option that already existed than it is to introduce a new option entirely and change how it works for the new option. Introducing a new, WvW backpack that required a time intensive PvE component would be a stupid decision. But its entirely different from say introducing a WvW legendary backpack that required a small amount of PvE time and then out of nowhere removing that option and replacing it with a requirement that takes a lot more PvE playing time. That is what happened with the gift of battle, its entirely different scenario.

That said WvW does need its own legendary backpack. At this point the other two game modes have one it just doesn’t make sense for WvW to not have one as well

Good news is that you only have to unlock the required masteries once to do the maguuma map completion infinite number of times

I would rather have 1 DBL, 1 ABL and 1 new borderlands

Oh this explains a lot. I saw this on my map the other day and asked about it in map chat but no one else saw the marker. I figured it was just some visual bug but wasn’t sure

Some people are intrinsically motivated. You should try it, it makes games far more enjoyable

zhonnika.1784:

We won’t be silenced permanently. Sorry to burst your bubble there, sir. I’ll rail against these maps for as long as I play this game. As for PvE-ers knowing better how to design and run a map than people who play WvW….. um, what? I mean, I’ve heard some stupid garbage here before, but that really tops it.

How, really… how do you explain the resurgence in population in WvW with ABL coming back? It wasn’t reward tracks. It wasn’t world linking. It was the return of a map that makes sense for WvW. If we have to have this fetid dusty crap back, I only hope it remains to one map…. so that I never have to go there.

What? Silenced? You were the group silencing the majority. At some point you guys will have to grow up and realize that you are in the minority, and the poll is now proof of that.

A – Playing WvW doesn’t mean you know how to make a good WvW map. Likewise playing PvE doesn’t mean you don’t know how to make a good WvW map. That is some of the most absurd logic in this thread.

B – Whether or not you think a map is “good” has nothing to do with how other people see it. What matters is that people are having fun on the map, and a lot of people enjoyed DBL, and a lot of people still don’t enjoy ABL.

C – As others have pointed out this resurgence was in fact not due to ABL returning as it happened with the April update, which came a full 2 weeks before ABL were returned to rotation. The WvW population has been dropping ever since.

You can hate the DBL as much as you want. But you absolutely cannot speak for the community, and the community has said that they want the DBL to stay. Go nurse your wounded pride in a corner if you have to, but stop pretending like you are some superior player who is being oppressed because you don’t like a map that actually requires you to change how you play

Ross Biddle.2367:

Windwalker.7421:

IMHO only if you are running with either a pre-made team, or at least a buddy to support it with lockdowns, peels, etc.

I have occasionally run into a Power Shatter Mesmer in ranked, but only very few were impressive in that role and it was almost always when they were organized with others in some fashion.

Generally speaking, you will lack the on-point sustain and condie cleansing to compete in the current meta, however if you get some support in those weak spots, you can still bring some very decent spike damage to your team.

One half-decent monkey playing a power rev will realize you’re weakness (a glass ammy) and tear you to ribbons

:)

That’s about the beginning and the end of it.

Thieves are still more than capable of doing it too.

Yea but they do the exact same thing to people running the meta build who just don’t know how to play mesmer very well. Part of being good at PvP is knowing when you need to gtfo

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

There are also people with serious time constraints for which the current reset time works better than the old one. No reset time will work perfectly for everyone, and ANet has apparently found one that works well enough for enough of its playerbase that it isn’t a problem for them anymore

shion.2084:

OriOri.8724:

Its not that confusing. The system strives to keep you as close to 50% win rate as possible. So if you are creeping beyond that it will start putting you on losing teams. No matter how good of a player you are there is only so much you can do to carry your team if 3+ of the players on the other team are players that actually deserve to be in legendary.

I don’t think this is true. It will always try to put you with people whom are closest in MMR to yourself and fall within the pip range if I understand correctly. You are thinkin gmicro scale like season 1. The reason it ends up being 50 / 50 ish is on the macro scale because you are always matched against the next highest or lowest 5 MMRs in your pip range. So roughly hafl the time your the underdog.

At least this is my understanding.

I didn’t play S1 or S2 so I can’t be thinking of those systems. In my experience so far, the system has alternated (not necessarily every other game mind you, but it does swing back and forth between these two extremes and almost exclusively these two extremes) between putting me on the team that is destroyed, or putting me on the team that facerolls the other team. ~80% of my PvP games or more are 500 – 200 or worse, with a substantial portion being 500 – 100. I don’t pretend to know the math behind how it matches people up, but judging from the people on the forums and the people in my guild who have talked about their experience this is not something that I am imagining or is limited to me. The system does a good job of matching up players on the same team with similar MMRs, after you have played enough games for it to give you an accurate MMR*. But it is gawdawful at matching up teams with similar MMR values. There is no reason that a majority of games should be blowouts, just none. That wouldn’t happen with a good matchmaking algorithm

• Another huge problem is that it assigns new ranked players to have an MMR that is as close to the average MMR of the active playerbase as possible. That is another poor idea. Players should start at the bottom of the MMR scale. Yea if they are really good they will get a few free games, but only a few games and then their MMR will rise up enough to start giving them better matches. But the vast majority of players who are new to PvP are not good enough to be considered an average PvP player. Starting their MMR off in the middle just means that they have a series of bad games that turns them off from PvP for good

Jim Hunter.6821:

TorquedSoul.8097:

Jim Hunter.6821:

….You do realize the majority of roamers are on the alpine bl right?

But yeah, I have no problem with rotating ebg and the kitten map. It would need a lot more changes but I honestly think it would take less changes to make it suitable for an ebg replacement than it would to make it bl worthy.

Well there are only Alpine BL’s at the moment so where else would the roamers be.

The question is where were they when there was only the dbl? Because they sure as hell weren’t roaming that bl.

…and no, I don’t count you kittenes that capped empty kitten and ran from fights to be roamers.

You claim there were absolutely zero roamers on the basis that you don’t like the roamers that were on DBL? This is beyond absurd. At some point you are going to have to face the truth that if a majority of players really did hate DBL then the poll would reflect that and it would soon be removed from the game.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Teon.5168:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Teon.5168:

Xenesis.6389:

DeWolfe.2174:

Xenesis.6389:

ImperialWL.7138:

Who gives a kitten when most of the people who vote are pve kittens who play WvW once a week?

That the new excuse going around these days for polls that don’t go your way? more pve players vote on the polls than the wvw players?

lol

How about how poorly and biased the poll’s have been worded? Do another poll Anet with something as concise as “Should we permanently remove the Dessert Borderlands: Yes or No?” With “YES” being first as every logical minded person would think and say it. It’s literally called a “yes–no question” for a reason!

This poll was doomed from the start with poor wording, poor staging, and from a “new” majority now being 75%. How many voting are even WvW players? How about a “Reward Track” for each poll where you have to earn the right to vote on a WvW issue? The more times you complete the reward track, the more your vote counts? That right there will take care of non WvW players and those with multiple accounts voting.

Oh the other excuse people are blindly voting the wrong way cause you think it’s not worded properly. It’s fine, there are more people who are willing to give the map a chance than those that want it removed permanently, stop crying about it and move on.

Completely agree. Apparently the vocal minority didn’t realize they were a minority.
The poll so far is even a surprise to me. I thought that ‘get rid of the dbls’ option would reach around 45%. Guess I even overestimated the size of the vocal minority.

That being said, I hope that Anet continues to tweak the dbls to make them more playable for more people.

Go look at the posts people are making. A common theme is, "I don’t like the dbl but if we vote to destroy it anet won’t make any new maps. "

People aren’t voting on whether or not they like the map or if they’ll play on it, they are voting to keep it out of fear of WvW being ignored again.

LOL. Ok, whatever you say.

You do realize that a very large portion of the people that are voting in the polls are being notified in game, and have never once(other than the polls) read or posted on the forums? So, if they haven’t posted or read here, then how would they know about this “common theme” conspiracy that you are convinced is going on?

Oh wait, that is probably also a part of the same conspiracy.

So…. You’re point is that on top of the group that allowed themselves to be scared into voting to keep the map, you also get the vote of the uninformed pve players that hop into wvw for 10 minutes to get their dailies….. okay.

Just because you don’t enjoy PvE doesn’t make PvE players uninformed. They know better than you do what they want to see out of a WvW map. You cannot tell them what a WvW map has to look like for them to enjoy it. Have you ever stopped and thought that there are some people who don’t play WvW because of the ABL?

Her death made me angry at Faolain not Mordremoth. But yes I agree that she deserved to go down fighting and it was sad to see the way she was killed. If ANet is planning on killing any other DE members I hope that they get a fitting death and no more sucker punches

Its not that confusing. The system strives to keep you as close to 50% win rate as possible. So if you are creeping beyond that it will start putting you on losing teams. No matter how good of a player you are there is only so much you can do to carry your team if 3+ of the players on the other team are players that actually deserve to be in legendary.

TheNecrosanct.4028:

I still stand by my earlier proposal: a reward track for the Gift of Exploration (as a second, non-PvE way to get it) and a Mystic Forge recipe from Miyani for the Gift of Battle (as a second, non-WvW to get that). A Gift of Exploration reward track would’ve made much more sense in the first place. And Miyani already sells recipes for the other gifts required for legendaries, so adding one for the Gift of Battle also makes perfect sense. This solves all potential problems, I think. No one has to “suffer”. Contrary to all the claims of the so-called fairness of PvE players having to do WvW now, the recipe and reward track would be a truly fair solution for all.

I don’t think a single reward track would be a fair compromise for a gift of exploration. Before this change both WvW players and PvE players had to do the same amount of work to get a gift of battle. And right now they still have to do the same amount of work to get a gift of battle. But a single reward track is much faster to complete than world completion, which would mean that WvW players would now have to put less work into getting the gifts needed to make a legendary. It should be equal effort regardless of your preferred playstyle.

Sweet Sanity.8593:

I have been a wvw player for years now and much like most I hated the desert bls the second they came out, but it is now clear that all our distain for them is because we all learned to play wvw on the alpine bls. People who joined and learned to play on desert bls hate the alpine just as much as we hate the desert ones.

The maps aren’t bad. Sure the terrain is confusing but so is every other map when you first play it. We say desert bls are too big and players who learned on desert say alpine a are too small. Desert has lots of cliffs but I know every last one of us fell to our deaths when we first started on alpine as well. The only legitimate complaint about desert bls that can’t be attributed to us learning on alpine is that the towers have no tactical value. The rest of our issues come from our stubborn butts not wanting give things a chance because it’s different than what we are used to.

Accept new things and the world will be a better place

Thank you for being a voice of reason here. Yes the complaint about the towers is legitimate, but also remember that they originally did serve a much stronger tactical purpose than on any other map with their barricades until people QQed too much so ANet removed those. The people who “love” WvW are the ones that drove away the most unique tactical advantage any structure in all of the WvW maps has because it was a true advantage besides merely trebuching from safety (which is just boring anyway). The diehard ABL fans need to grow up and realize that different maps are healthy for the game. Not everyone has to like DBL just how not everyone has to like ABL. But at least DBL gave players a new experience that was different from both EBG and ABL, and that was (and still is) sorely needed

Yea if you are good at them. You won’t find them on metabattle because the people at that site have zero creativity and make builds that all players can be good at regardless of skill level.

Ewww no metabattle builds are no fun. It really depends on what you want to do. Do you want to play PvE, PvP, WvW? Do you want to be support, dps, roamer (for WvW)? Different classes are good at different things, but if you try to play a class in a role it isn’t great in it will be a lot harder to enjoy the class

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

OriOri.8724:

Malediktus.9250:

Mystic Coins are fine as they are. No changes / no new sources are needed in my opinion.

Let me guess. You finished all of your legendaries years ago and don’t want newer players to catch up to you unless they fork over thousands of extra gold just for mystic coins, on top of the already high cost of making legendaries?

Actually, unless I’m mistaken, he DID finish ALL the legendaries, and quite recently. I remember a post where he showed the screenshot. It was impressive. Unless I’m thinking of someone else.

No surprise. I don’t actually care whether we get another source of Mystic Coins or not, it would be nice to have them be given out in a manner similar to the one described here but at the same time we don’t need it. I just don’t like the incredible toxicity that Malediktus has towards everyone else. If he put in effort to do something not only does he want ANet to never make it even slightly easier for other players to do the same thing, but he actually seems to want ANet to make it harder for other players to achieve the same things. Case in point he took advantage of making a lot of legendaries when the price of mystic coins was far far lower than it is now. He got 99% of the AP from historical achievements and has maxed out his daily AP yet insists that it somehow wouldn’t be fair to him for ANet to make it easier for newer players who missed those historical achievements to gain enough AP to start gaining pinnacle skins.

You read way too into those posters. ANet isn’t trying to send subliminal messages and be PC with them, they are trying to properly set the stage for what is shaping up to be a revolt in DR with LWS3. You can’t have something like that when people aren’t feeling oppressed, it wouldn’t work.

Hexinx.1872:

When we 3 or 5 manned Shadow behemoth, it felt very underwhelming. I mean this big giant boss should be able to wipe out solo roamers/small groups easily. That’s the point of world bosses i thought. i was sad.

But this thread makes me happy, I’m glad they have implemented some challenging content that can spawn at any moment. Pretty cool addition i thought.

SB isn’t a great example. Mechanically its a very straightforward and simple fight, with attacks that are easy to dodge and his healthy isn’t that high. The mechanic is the portals, and if they scale with the group (IDK if they do or not) then that means there were even fewer mechanics for your guys to deal with. Basically I don’t think he is an adequate representation. Try 3 or 5 manning Teq, Shatterer or TT (or at least one of the heads) and it will be harder.

@insanemaniac – Not really. Legendary mobs also have a lot higher health and deal more damage. The legendary executioner has way more health than any champion at that level would have, his health drops so incredibly slowly. And his mechanics are much more difficult than any champion in those maps. I’d say he was HoT map difficulty and ANet placed him in central tyria and now people who haven’t played HoT don’t understand how difficult he is

Hyper Cutter.9376:

I love the fact that the same update that gave WvW access to HoT items without having to dirty their hands in that nasty PVE they hate also forced PVE players to grind WvW.

Such prime irony.

The WvW players are so incredibly salty that they don’t even seem to grasp that this will only make their WvW experience worse. I mean just look at how much people “enjoy” PvP this entire year with PvE players joining en masse to get those achievements for the backpack

Malediktus.9250:

Mystic Coins are fine as they are. No changes / no new sources are needed in my opinion.

Let me guess. You finished all of your legendaries years ago and don’t want newer players to catch up to you unless they fork over thousands of extra gold just for mystic coins, on top of the already high cost of making legendaries?

Absurdo.8309:

I didn’t realize every patch had to have a pvp update.

People are more commenting on the absurdity of ANet being mum about the horrible matchmaking and still subpar balance (though its gotten much better) yet still releasing an update for PvP that addresses exactly none of the problems with the game mode. Its more of a “Why did we even get this?”

Najten.2418:

Aitadis.8269:

I like this change, I was thinking that anet should have made a repeatable reward track for WvW players that rewarded a gift of exploration after you complete it multiple times, similar to SPvP’s Perfect Mist Core, but this is better instead. Forces PvE players to do WvW similar to how we are forced to do PvE.

Yes, a WvW Reward Track that after ~10-15 completions rewards a Gift of Exploration doesn’t sound bad at all. It would still be the same effort timewise but can be done in WvW if that’s what you prefer doing. Sounds like an excellent idea actually!

However I strongly disagree that this new way of aquiring Gift of Battle is somehow beneficial for anyone.
It makes me sad that I keep reading comment after comment about “finally PvE:ers get to suffer too, fairness, mwahahaha!”. You do realise you’re also going to be suffering? That almost every PvE:er that wants this Gift is now gonna mess up your WvW?

If you are a noob in PvE trying to get your map completion done I am not gonna suffer one bit, since PvE is not as dependant on cooperation as WvW is.
It’s also not limited on slots; if a map is full I will just get moved to a different version of the same map. Makes no difference to me. I am not forced to queue for PvE just because a bunch of WvW:ers are doing map completion.. WvW on the other hand, is limited on slots, and if a bunch of people are standing around doing almost nothing for 8 hours straight taking up slots, or doing stupid kitten just to keep their Participation up, I’m pretty sure it will affect your experience in WvW negatively. I still remebmer quite a few frowny faces on WvW:ers when the WvW Tournament achievement hunters were in there! Sooo much QQ cuz a bunch of PvE plebs were ruining the WvW experience just doing stupid stuff to get some achievements.
It would be better for everyone if those not in the least interested in WvW can just pop in, buy their Gifts, and leave.

And to anyone saying “You just got your badges from Achievement Chests, you didn’t work for them!”.. Yeah? You’d rather farm 1000-1500 Achievement Points than 500 Badges of Honor? You think that takes 0 effort? Hah!

Just to add to this. For all of the people talking about making PvE players suffer, just take a look at PvP right now. The PvP legendary backpack influenced a lot of PvE players to try PvP in order to get their achievements and the regular PvP players have absolutely kittening hated every minute of it. Do you guys honestly think it will be any different for WvW? It would be even worse considering anyone who wants more than 1 legendary will have to keep coming back and back and back to do the track all over again. So I’m not so sure why this is making you guys cream your pants in excitement

DeWolfe.2174:

Silverkey.2078:

I am not a hardcore WvW player, so my opinion may not be representative

I’m glad you pointed this out. That’s the issue with this is that anyone can vote. So a player that doesn’t even WvW at all or maybe WvW’s a couple hours a week get’s to force those of us that WvW 30+ hours a week to play the DBL. In small doses maybe that map is ok but, after many hours it sucks the life out of you. Now winning is going to be about who can endure that map the longest.

For having variety, functionally dissimilar maps are simply going to wreck match balancing. Again, if you don’t care about such things as winning each week, I can see why a player wouldn’t care about having balance.

Might as well remove the score….

That’s not true for everyone. I played WvW more when we had DBL, and only since ABL has returned have I dropped down to playing a few hours a week. EBG gets dull over time due to just the repetition of always having the same map. But DBL was a map I could play on for hours. ABL on the other hand is a map that makes me want to logoff just on my way out of the garrison on your home map. That map gives me absolutely zero incentive to play WvW, and there are other players that share this opinion of ABL

This wouldn’t work. All it would do is encourage the stacked servers to vote for the smallest servers so that the little competition they already receive is completely wiped out

Cyninja.2954:

Rednik.3809:

Cyninja.2954:

Yes there is. It’s basic economic theory. Please direct me to your sources and I’ll gladly change my opinion on how rarity affects value. I’ve shown what I’m basing my argumentation on. Until then, I’ll stick to what I know. You not valuing something because its rare does not mean others share the same values. We even have in this thread people who openly admit they are interested in the item due to its rarity.

Now you can keep bringing up your own values and treat them as proof or fact of argument, but that won’t change common or mostly accepted behavior and established basics of how a big portion of population behave and will behave.

It have NOTHING to do with economic theory because tonic is not involved in any economic relations at all. It’s same thing as measuring artistic value of poem by counting words and symbols and trying to apply some mathematical theory to those numbers. Yes, you will get some abstract result, but it will be absolutely meaningless one.

There is no need for economic transactions to take place when looking for psychological effects of scarcity.

Scarcity Effects on Value: A Quantitative Review of the Commodity Theory Literature
- http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1181&context=articles

Only because it’s not part of a transaction or economic exchange does not mean it has no effect on values.

One final thing before I stop commenting in this thread as its clear you aren’t even reading my arguments.

According to your own link, to the very study you gave us.

Cornell University

Commodity theory (Brock, 1968) deals with the psychological effects of scarcity. According to the theory,
scarcity enhances the value (or desirability) of anything that can be possessed, is useful to its possessor, and is
transferable from one person to another

For the last time, something has to be transferable for the economics of scarcity to be applied to it. Fractal Tonics are not transferable. Your own study you linked to says so. You yourself linked to a study that says that these fractal tonics are not influenced by your precious economics of scarcity because they are not tradeable in any way. That is the only point I have been trying to drive home. Something that is bound to your character from the moment you get it as loot and gives your player exactly 0 bonuses in any way shape or form has no economic value in the game. Just none. There is no arguing that fact.

Cyninja.2954:

OriOri.8724:

Its interesting that you think your argument has a solid base and mine doesn’t. You valuing something because it is rare does not mean others share that same value. For every person in this thread that has expressed interest in it because of its rarity there has also been another person who has expressed interest in making this item more valuable. Now you can keep bringing up your own values and treat them as proof or fact of argument, but that won’t change the fact that these items have no inherent value.

I absolutely do not care about what people in this thread believe. They are not a representation of general human behavior and a far to small sample size. I do base my argumentation on established economic ideas and principles. I’ve even given examples of how arenanet has handled similar situations in this game and kept rarity value equal or even higher than before a change, namely precursor crafting.

OriOri.8724:

Despite what you would choose to try to make us believe, GW2 is not real life. There is quite literally absolutely 0 economic gain from owning a fractal tonic. Just none. So economic theory doesn’t even apply here. It would apply if having a tonic in some way, no matter how miniscule, affected your character in an economic way, but they don’t. You placing value in its rarity doesn’t mean that the item has any value on your account. You still cannot trade it. You still gain no benefit from it. It provides absolutely 0 economic gain to anyone who has it. Economic theory quite simply does not apply here no matter how much you wish it did because the tonic grants you no economic benefit or detriment. It doesn’t, and no matter how much you want to say otherwise you cannot pick out an economic benefit that the tonic brings to the account of anyone who has it.

Yes, and by your logic there is absolutely no economic gain of having legendarys (back before they got changed) or other rare skins yet they are a major part of GW2 endgame design. Economic theory always applies. You agreeing or disagreeing with it does not change this. It’s like saying I do not believe in math, thus the rules do not apply. The only question is how things are valued. In this case I value rarity over perceived satisfaction and am arguing that reducing the rarity of the item will negatively impact desire or satisfaction of the playerbase (both of owners and not owners). You are simply stating your opinion as fact over and over.

Now you are just spouting off irrelevant information. Of course legendary skins have value because of how you obtain them. You have to actually put work into them. Even if you are lucky enough to get a precursor drop you still have to put in the work to get the gifts to actually make the legendary. Its a process that someone has to intentionally do, unlike the fractal tonic where it is pure RNG. Besides that though Legendary weapons can be sold before being equipped, so can rare skins. They can all be sold to other players. They are a part of the economy. Fractal tonics cannot and have never been able to be sold to other players, they are just not a part of the economy no matter how delusional you get. Even beyond that though, Legendaries were always worth something because of the statswapping. Because of the statswapping 1 legendary weapon is equivalent to every single ascended weapon of that type, because it could be any of them. Same thing with the backpacks, and when it gets here the armor. Legendary weapons/gear offers a concrete bonus to your character this way. Tonics do not. I don’t know how I can make this any clearer to you.

All the stuff you keep talking about and linking to only concerns items that have an impact on the economy. Yes the economics of scarcity are real, but only for items that actually enter the economy or can influence it. Fractal tonics due neither, so economics of scarcity does not govern them. They don’t suddenly have value because you say they are scarce. They have to actually be a part of the economy to have any value. Either directly by being able to be sold, or indirectly by giving some sort of bonus, any sort of bonus, to your character. But they are neither. There is absolutely zero value in the fractal tonics right now.

The “examples” you have been giving are also irrelevant as they all dealt with items that were actually in the economy. No matter how hard you try, you still cannot find 1 way in which the fractal tonics exist in or influence the economy. None. I told you before and I tell you again, if you can come back with even 1 clear example of the economic impact of fractal tonics in this game then come tell me and I will reconsider my position. But there is none.

One last thing. The fact that you

Cyninja.2954:

I absolutely do not care about what people in this thread believe.

means that you shouldn’t care either way whether the drop rate of the tonics is increased. Because according to your own words you don’t care about the opinion of the people in this thread that want the drop rate to remain the same. It also means that you probably shouldn’t be wasting your time commenting here if you truly don’t care one way or the other. Or you do care and you have just resorted to lying in this thread.

@Hexinx we saw a new class released 3 years after launch, along with elite specs. I think those are on the same level of core changes as introducing a new weapon to the game

All of the WvW players are just exclaiming how this is “fair” because they want PvE players to be forced to “endure” WvW just like they have to “endure” PvE to get legendary weapons. Like others have mentioned, they were saving up their badges until they were ready to craft their legendaries to save inventory space. How is this fair to them? Yes it was announced that the vendor would be taken out after the reward tracks left beta testing, but was a date ever given in advance as to when that would be? No, it just happened in this patch and no one found out until the notes went up. That also isn’t fair.

But my main point was the following. WvW players think that PvE players should be forced to play WvW in order to get their legendary weapons. What about keeping the reward tracks and bringing the vendor back but only allowing players to purchase 1 gift of battle for every 50 WvW ranks they go up. So if someone is rank 122 they could go in and buy 2 gifts of battle right now assuming they had 1000 badges, and buy a third when they reached rank 150. World completion gives you 2 gifts of exploration, and I believe that hitting rank 100 in WvW takes about the same amount of time as world completion if not longer for a lot of players so it balances out in terms of being required to play different game modes

This at least doesn’t screw over the older players who were saving up badges but still forces people to play WvW if they want to make legendaries.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

If you’re going to make us complete a reward track for a legendary component then at least have it also give other legendary components as rewards, not materials that basically fall from the sky in other game modes (dragonite ore and empyreal shards). PvP reward tracks drop clovers, this one should too, especially since its now a required track that anyone making a legendary has to do.

I think that’s a good idea, especially considering this is the reward track you HAVE to complete in order to forge your legendary, it should reward you with clovers and obsidian shards like every other reward track.

And possibly bloodstone dust as well. Every reward track yields dragonite ore and empyreal fragments, few if any yield bloodstone dust yet you need far more bloodstone dust than either dragonite ore or empyreal fragments.

DBL is a far superior map to ABL, it just encourages a different playstyle which is why the proponents of blob wars hate it so much. I’m just glad that ANet made the right choice and required a 75% vote to remove DBL instead of a 75% vote to keep it.

Aidan Savage.2078:

MashMash.1645:

One other thing. If this apparently amazing raid team they have can make all this raid content, why can’t a small fractal team pump out more fractals?

I mean, they are supposed to be much smaller in scope and complexity, but still 5 man challenging content right? Heck, can we even just have the raid team moved over to make a few new fractals every now and then if they are so good at content creation? Or have them obersee the fractal team or something anyway.

In order for new fractals to be added to the rotation, old fractals would need to be taken out, whether permanently or in a random lottery style rotation. That’s if they limit it to 100 scales.

Not really. The vast majority of Fractals have 7+ difficulty levels, with several having 9 or 10. It would be easy to free up at least 2 slots in each tier to introduce 2 new fractals without removing any of the ones we currently have. I bet Anet could even manage to make room for 4 new fractals and still have each fractal be offered at least once in each tier.

Fjaeldmark.9043:

The problem lies in the mesmer’s perceived power level. Because of their abilities mesmers are really good at killing bad players. After said bad player losses do they, A) reflect of the fight and try to see what they did wrong or run too the forums with “OMG MEZMUR OP PLZ NEFR”?

Well to be fair those players also complain about every class that kills them, unless it was someone playing the same class. Then it clearly needs a buff.

Randulf.7614:

I will say there was a warning – an in game mail went out with an item that warned Executioners could attack during a bounty.

We just didnt know it was a legendary. I can see that being an issue for a small group, however, I thought this was a rather cool addition that actually made the situation feel dangerous. So far these bandits didnt feel very threatening. This upped it

Not everyone got that mail right after the patch. For some reason I didn’t get that mail until after I failed at one legendary bandit and then killed a second one. So no, there wasn’t really a warning to every player.

It was a fun fight though, I really enjoyed it. The attack pattern was pretty confusing at first though and he deals a lot of damage so that took some getting used to. But if you have ~8 people who understand the mechanics its a doable fight, just takes a while

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Mea.5491:

I maxed an Ele/Tempest with Tomes and Proof of Heroics just to get the Tempest’s Loop skin for my Necro and then deleted the Ele because I’m not fond of the playstyle. x)

What is the weirdest thing you’ve ever done to get an item?

I create and destroy a character each week for a key run. Arguably, it’s not “weird” since so many people do that. But I’d argue that spending 10-20 minutes on the off chance you’ll get a 3,000 gold item as a drop is, indeed, weird.

o.0 whats this key run that requires you to create a new character each week?

Dinosaurs.8674:

Not a bad idea, though really it would only encourage players to do play a few of the easiest adventures and ignore the harder ones. You could offer higher rewards for certain adventures, or you could give additional mystic coins for people within the top 20 of each adventure each day. That way there is some incentive to tryhard for the easy adventures, and some incentive to play the hard adventures at all.

I think that if this were implemented the best course of action would be to have a randomly chosen daily adventure and you can only gain mystic coins from there. Whether they are handed out to everyone who hits Silver/Gold or only the top XX players on the daily leaderboard is to be determined. But either way you shouldn’t let people farm the easiest adventures for mystic coins every day

Gideon.6742:

Reisinger.4203:

Regardless of whether or not it was announced or someone is crafting their legendary right now, it was a bad change that unnecessarily gates an otherwise reasonably accessible item for legendary crafting

I think all the PvE BS that is often required is unnecessary gates BS as well… so what’s your point? If we don’t want to do dungeons for tokens for some of the legendaries we are forced to do time gated reward tracks that reward those tokens…

I think a lot of people are upset because this change was added several years into the game instead of being a requirement from the start and it just caught a bunch of them by surprise. I can kind of understand why someone would be upset if they had the badges of honor and thought they were good, just holding off on buying the gift until they needed it to save an inventory space, and then they were surprised by this.

How do you even reliably get watchwork sprockets without paying gems for that mining pick? And for that matter I’ve looked in the gem store and it doesn’t even seem to always be available

Mastery tracks are exclusive to HoT content so why did ANet bother separating Heart of Maguuma mastery tracks from central Tyria tracks? All I’m saying is that if LWS3 doesn’t take place in heart of Maguuma then it really doesn’t make much sense to give it heart of maguuma mastery points. I mean really, if you are spending your time around Divinity’s Reach then why do you expect that to allow you to improve your Nunoch hunting mastery, or your itzel/exalted mastery line? It just doesn’t make sense, especially since the whole notion of mastery points is that your character is “training” to figure out these abilities. But if you are nowhere near the heart of maguuma then how exactly is your character supposed to be training a mastery that only applies in the heart of maguuma?

Felahr.9830:

OriOri.8724:

MashMash.1645:

Endless Soul.5178:

TheNecrosanct.4028:

~snip~

With all due respect, ANet, this is not going to get me play WvW, let alone like it. It just made me drop all legendary aspirations alltogether.

~snip~

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

Why couldnt they just have both – the track and the vendor? That way WvWr’s could get them and everyone else could too without having to slog through stuff they aren’t interested in.

It just seems….. unnecessary.

If WvW players could buy the gift of battle then none of them would use the reward track. Besides the fact that its quicker to get the badges and then buy the gift of battle, but while you are getting the badges you are gaining reward track progress that could be put towards unique skins instead of something you are planning on buying

yes they would. if you enjoy WvW you played it before, and youll play it now, only now you have passive reward tracks to put icing on the cake. if you hated WvW, youre still going to hate WvW and making a thing a reward track that takes weeks or months is not going to make someone like it. You cant force enjoyment of something and making it MANDATORY is bullkitten.

….what?

If someone can get 500 badges of honor through playing WvW in order to gain progress on their reward track which reward track do you think they are going to pick? The one that rewards them with the exact same item that they were farming the badges of honor for? Or a different reward track that will give them a unique skin and other more useful items? No one is going to run the gift of battle reward track if they were allowed to just buy the gift of battle. It just doesn’t make sense to waste your time like that

@Shiyo you captured my feelings on the matter perfectly. I know I’m not very good at PvP and I have no problem losing all of my matches as long as they are fair matches and the other team isn’t facerolling us. That is not fun. Its also not fun to faceroll the other team.