Guild Wars 2

Haven’t looked all the video, but from what I saw
Your Greatsword bursts were simply beautiful
I’m curious as to why you haven’t relocated utility and shatters keybinds? Unless you’re using a mouse with macros on them…

Silv.9207:

About eles, they had planned a “nerf”: they put Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement on the same tier of Arcane magic, forcing them to chose only one of them.

BUT
Eles cry so much for that “nerf” (that only point to make eles unale to be fullbuffed all the time like before the patch and like now, making them OP) that ANet was forced to make Elemental Attunement a minor trait.

If they restore that old fix idea, they will fix the eles once for all.

Do you realize that it would have completely killed the class? Beside, they did nerf Ele Attunment since the radius of boon share is now ridiculously low.
Considering the amount of things we received as baseline, really, making Elemental Attunment a minor is a complete joke…
Ele needs a shaving, but that is the wrong thing to complain about…

Velimere.7685:

Morwath.9817:

Ross Biddle.2367:

nearlight.3064:

Mesmer is really good right now with several viable builds. Take domination, dueling, and a greatsword and you’re all set, the last trait line is just for either some extra support/sustain/survivability. The condi shatter builds are also pretty decent with carrion too. Don’t play the faceroll mantra builds though, it’ll keep you from getting better since the stunlock mantra won’t teach you how to shatter at the right time and it’ll probably get nerfed anyway. Playing mantras would just make it harder for you to learn how to be a good mesmer.

“A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.”

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Play to win. Use everything at your disposal. Be a truly good gamer.

This goes for every class, in every game, for all time.

Makes me wonder, if people read before they respond.
Guy said to don’t play with Mantras because they make it ‘too easy’, and due to that it’s harder to learn how to play Mesmer properly. While learning playing certain profession you always should avoid ‘faceroll’ mechanics at beginning, which may be nefed soon and pick them once you ‘l2p’…

If you get used to something thats ‘too easy/faceroll’ without learning how to play without it… and it will be nerfed soon, you will be unable to play your profession properly.

Holy irony, Batman!

1. nearlight.3064 clearly communicated his scrub status.
2. Ross Biddle.2367 quoted him directly along with the definition of what a scrub is.
3. You proceeded to suppose upon Ross Biddle.2367 not having actually read the message of nearlight.3064 which he directly quoted with relevant citation.
4. You clearly communicated your own scrub status in agreement with that of nearlight.3064.

What you fail to understand is that he doesn’t refute the scrub statements, nor did he say that it was wrong to play to win
HOWEVER, Playing a class for the first times with skills that acts like a crutch (mantra) is actually a very wrong way to learn.
Ross read and had his own understanding of the message and replied accordingly with a relevant text, which was, then, refuted by the OP of said message with a relevant explanation.
They both are right. Playing with limits intent on respecting a personnal code of honor that isn’t largely viewed by the community is akin to shooting yourself in the foot, and that person is a scrub.
However learning a class with skills that is there to make your playstyle easier will encourage any newcomer to fall into a lazy state of mind that will not make him watch and properly learn to time his burst. He’ll learn the class wrongly and base his experience on a very wobbly ground that will simply crumble if mantra ever becomes non viable.
It’s better for him to start playing the hard way and, once he has a decent grasp of the basic that makes mesmer what it is, incorporate tools that will facilitate his play. Will be less hard if he has to adapt in the future.

Exedore.6320:

Except the zerker mes can just avoid the tanky melee and still kill it.

Mesmer and d/d ele are completely broken right now. Other stuff needs adjusted, but it’s not game-breaking.

“broken” is a bit strong here…
They need shaving and fix, yes.
Blinding dissipation need to be avoided, yes
CS need a higher ICD and maybe reward on interrupt, yes
PU need a shaving, Yes.

I forgot about ele’s traits that make them OP… prolly that sustain mixed with dps, but then, it’s a problem related to the easiness they have with stacking might while benefiting a hundred percent from celestial.
They are strong and maybe too strong yes
To the point of breaking the game? No
Nothing exist to the point of breaking the game, even burning isn’t strong enough for that.

Gotta love threads like these…
1. Being called a noob because you totally destroyed someone.
2. When I had the lowest score on my team…
3. Not doing beast at start of niflhel.
4. For being a “PU mesmer” while the only stealth I had was decoy and I didn’t even used it the whole fight.
5. When I sent 250 pile of salt to a raging guy

I agree that waiting in HoTM forever to wait your queue gets really boring
But leaving matches?
No, that’s just, no. You got mixed up with people, you grit your teeth, choke back your temper and go through it until the end.
Leaving a match is just bad manners and plain rude to your teammates even if they suck… in fact you’re never certain that you are not the problem.
I’d rather have a forfeit option, so that it can end faster, but I disagree totally with leaving a match while it’s on

A useless thread indeed

I’m sorry for your issue, but on another hand, our rate of spawning clones is so high with so little CDs on our skills that DE isn’t really THAT mandatory…
In fact, I’d much rather keep my endurance for dodging than for creating clones at that point.

We already have Cds on that… 10, 25, 38 and 50 if I’m not mistaken and anyone wasting Diversion for a blind is… well… it’s not a sound judgment in my book.
Why put and ICD that would probably be 10CD ANYWAY… Higher than that and it would kill the trait…
But hey if it makes others feel better, why not…

Welcome FoTM mesmer… There is probably a place for you in our train, amongst other FoTM mesmers… enjoy your stay until nerf hits and you go back to other classes

There is no squeue since, like, half a year already and this happens quite often
Do you even 2k15?

Lol
nuff said

Tissitra.4153:

Pepsi.8907:

Tissitra.4153:

I asked this question somewhere without getting an answer so let me ask me again. I challenge you to name me a single build on a single class (other than mesmer of course) that would consistently have a higher than 50% winning chance against say the mantra shatter build.

The closest I can think of is something like a mediguard or power ranger, but here I would say it is 50/50 at best. And please bear in mind that the mesmer does not lose simply if he is forced to disengage.

yes but does the mesmer need to kill said target to be able to win?
You’re basically asking us to name you a power build, while knowing full well that mesmer counter said builds just like the thief does… I don’t want to switch attention or anything, I’m simply pointing it out…
Condi necros are truly a pain in the kitten to fight, 50/50 however? I’m not sure, I know it rules around that when I fight against one who is equally skilled.
We may have a lot of condi cleanse, but the speed at which a necro can apply them is truly higher than the speed with which we can cleanse them… especially since half of them are core-class mechanics that we need for something else than only cleansing…
A good D/D Ele is also a tough match, and I’m not speaking as someone who doesn’t know about Ele, I have 700 games and a thousand hour on my ele, I know how to bait them and I know when to spike them, nonetheless, a good D/D ele is very hard to take down, especially when traiting in earth/water/arcana…
D/P thieves, but then it’s a game of baiting for both parties and revolve around one single mistake on both part to be done with…
P/U Condi mesmers (seen more in WvW, but I’ve spotted a few around here in PvP)
And, of course lol, Shatter mesmer against another Shatter mesmer
On top of my hat that’s what I can think about…

Not 50/50 win ration but pretty annoying: Condi rangers and burn guardian

If you count “unable to kill” as a good counter: bunker guard and necro are impossible and I’d rather turn around. Matches lasts forever and I really can’t waste time in taking 5 minutes to kill someone. I’d be more useful elsewhere…

Yes that was just about the answer I got last time. A couple of builds where it might be 50/50 and that is about it (condi necros are at a disadvantage IMO btw due to the very long cast times being susceptible to interrupts and low actual condi pressure). A large majority of builds I can think of have really low chances against mantra shatter (many almost to the point of a hard counter.)

I would specifically ruled out bunkers because the whole point of a bunker is that it should be very hard to take down for one person. However, I would say that due to the boon strip there should be a fairly could chance for a shatter mesmer to take down say a bunker guardian.

I get your point, but how about your reverse it?
What builds counter a D/D ele (which needs nerf, we all agree about), what builds counter a Bunker Necro, what builds counter d/p thief?
I mean, there’s not dozens of builds to counter every other build that exist on this earth… Condi necro is fairly often seen, let’s not talk about D/D ele…
I didn’t name niche builds, but fairly used one that anyone can see at various degree at different pvp levels…
And you would rule out bunkers, but they are, indeed, a fairly good counter to Mesmer since they can’t be killed.
If they are on mid, and we need mid, but only mesmer can take it and bunker guard is on point. I’d say said mesmer is pretty kittened and countered because he needs that kitten cap that he can’t get.
How about regen rangers? Which can knock a mesmer off a point, cap it, and keep it for himself?
That’s not a direct counter, but still a counter that matters because PvP is about making points and cappin things

Ansau.7326:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Well, i’m not an expert for mesmer but what about something like this?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfRlknhG1YZawINwtGLnGk5O22MIDwCCa5Iae4A-TpghwAwLDAY/BA

I admit, it lacks a little bit in the cc department, but overall it has all mentioned stuff.

Or
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsfRlknhG1YZawGNwtGLnGEaE6+3JDwCCa5Iae4A-TpghwAwLDAY/BA

Those builds have some flaws.
- First one has very little CC on long CD and the condi cleansing is quite poor (since once the mantra stacks are gone, you are done). In fact, trait choice is not the best one.

- Second has better CC and more damage, but looses condi cleanse potential (so any condi burst will be your death) and you become way more squishy without all boons from Chaos.

In the end, what mesmer only needs is what mesmer main players have been saying. CS, PU and Blinding Dissipation should be toned down. But beyond that it only hurts the class unreasonably, and anyone wanting more nerfs doesn’t have reasonable arguments to stand them, beyond lacking the knowledge to face this profession.

Couldn’t have said it better. Most of mesmer’s community isn’t a bunch of blind bat… we are aware of what makes us too strong, and we do want to see those things FIXED…
but some of the whine is disproportionate and terribly pathetic. It sometimes looks like people only want to seek answers for their own lack of performance.
Now again, I am, myself, subject to getting bursted, killed, stomped, rolled on, whatever you name it, and yes I do find it unfair and unskilled and I want to tear the world apart because the class I’ve spent hours in mastering has just been tossed on the side like a pile of dirt.
But you know what, yes I will QQ, like this kittening burning from hell… yes I will yell and screech, but I’ll also realize that my builds have mistake, and I’ll seek solutions to those mistakes. What happened? What can I do better? Is it my build that has flaws that I can mitigate, or can I improve my gameplay? What went wrong, there?
I record at least 75% of my games simply to watch them and try to learn from my mistake and positioning, because, in all fight, mistakes happens and I don’t even realize it in game. But I watch myself play and I see that, yes, that placement was wrong or, I badly used my skills and ended up messing up my CDs…
Despite that, players are more skilled than I, and I will get facestomp and facerolled upon, but I also learned many things, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of mesmer who can actually burst me and down me in less than 20 seconds…

Tissitra.4153:

I asked this question somewhere without getting an answer so let me ask me again. I challenge you to name me a single build on a single class (other than mesmer of course) that would consistently have a higher than 50% winning chance against say the mantra shatter build.

The closest I can think of is something like a mediguard or power ranger, but here I would say it is 50/50 at best. And please bear in mind that the mesmer does not lose simply if he is forced to disengage.

yes but does the mesmer need to kill said target to be able to win?
You’re basically asking us to name you a power build, while knowing full well that mesmer counter said builds just like the thief does… I don’t want to switch attention or anything, I’m simply pointing it out…
Condi necros are truly a pain in the kitten to fight, 50/50 however? I’m not sure, I know it rules around that when I fight against one who is equally skilled.
We may have a lot of condi cleanse, but the speed at which a necro can apply them is truly higher than the speed with which we can cleanse them… especially since half of them are core-class mechanics that we need for something else than only cleansing…
A good D/D Ele is also a tough match, and I’m not speaking as someone who doesn’t know about Ele, I have 700 games and a thousand hour on my ele, I know how to bait them and I know when to spike them, nonetheless, a good D/D ele is very hard to take down, especially when traiting in earth/water/arcana…
D/P thieves, but then it’s a game of baiting for both parties and revolve around one single mistake on both part to be done with…
P/U Condi mesmers (seen more in WvW, but I’ve spotted a few around here in PvP)
And, of course lol, Shatter mesmer against another Shatter mesmer
On top of my hat that’s what I can think about…

Not 50/50 win ration but pretty annoying: Condi rangers and burn guardian

If you count “unable to kill” as a good counter: bunker guard and necro are impossible and I’d rather turn around. Matches lasts forever and I really can’t waste time in taking 5 minutes to kill someone. I’d be more useful elsewhere…

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Pls show me a ranger build with instant/stealth burst, instant cc, instant stealth, invuln, boon remove (to counter stability/protection), teleports, protection, regen, aegis, blinds, condi remove, …

Btw you are really calling a class, that has probably the most acess to defensiv mechanics (is there even anything not aviable for mesmer?) glassy?

You know, there was this answer about misinformation and half-truths? You resumed it all…
Our only unreliable access to aegis is PU, which is really that, unreliable way to get the boons you want. Or signet of inspiration, but really, boonshare builds are hardly OP.
Teleports? We have one. Blink which is 1200 range on 30 CD, used it for the burst, pretty much voided it for the whole fight.
Protection? Yeah… On chaos armor… need staff for that… or again unreliable PU or signet of inspiration (which is a RNG chance per 10 seconds) SO OP PLZ NERF!!!
Regen? Ah yes, that we have as a minor if we use the chaos line… on a 15 ICD… and we also gain protection if we gain regen… also on a 15 ICD…
blinds: On shatter yes, which, I can’t see many disagreeing that it needs a fix since it’s currently unavoidable. But abusing blinds is a bit counterproductive since you need your shatter for a whole other things than blinding your opponent…
Condi Remove: Without inspiration line I have… the mantra, which take a spot I’d rather have either blink, decoy,portal or Mantra of distraction over it…
Arcane Thievery, which is tricky to use, only “cure” 3 conditions on a 45 CD, Null field, which is great really, on a 32 CD however and , AHAH, PDisenchenter… which is horrible no matter how you take it. So yes… our untraited condi cleanse are terribad.
Traited with inspiration line: we have one condi cleanse per shatter, so four condi on a respective 12- 25 – 38 – 50 CD and 2 per heal, so 4 with Mantra since the last charge doesn’t clear anything.
Oh and Mender’s purity also has a 1ICD, so spamming your shatter to remove a condi vomit may not work…

SO here’s the deal:
YES, PU needs shaving
YES CS needs shaving (moving it to GM, reducing the percentage of stun, making it on interrupt, changing the CD, WHATEVER, too strong for adept skills)
YES Blinding Dissipation needs to be fixed so it can be dodged and blocked…
No matter the class, I can’t remember one mesmer since the patch who managed to one shot me, or even downed me after the initial burst…
You know… usually when I see a mesmer or a thief on the other team, I always ALWAYS stay on guard and keep my eyes open… I ALWAYS keep myself a skill I can use to get myself out of a burst, I ALWAYS make sure I have a way to not get bursted down, because I am AWARE they are on this map and COULD focus on me.
There’s this nice little thing where you can see the other team’s classes and a nice 1:30 to fix your build…
Yes sometimes you have to ADAPT… Yes some things NEEDS to be fixed on Mesmers, but half of the things I see here are just QQ for the sake of QQ… There are justified critics and complaints, but whining for the sake of whining because you refuse to roll a mesmer, to understand the class or simply ADAPT your build, well it’s pretty lame…
I’m not saying you need the perfect counter everytime, but making sure you have an instant stun break/stability that can make you dodge out of the mess and keeping yourself aware of your surrounding is hardly build breaking…

BuungBuung.2168:

2014 – Capture Vs Capture Plus! !!!!!!! Bunker Vs Bunker!
2015 – Capture Vs Capture PLUS!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!bunker condition vs bunker condition!!!!!!!!

no Berserk left in pvp!
consider that! please

Are we playing the same game?

“on heal” isn’t really a “skill” per say, but more of an action with ICD.
For example, an ele “heal” would be, for example, ether renewal. Yet, if he uses “on heal” sigil, his water attunment, water 5, dodge roll, and (I think) Water 2 would proc the sigil.
However those thing usually have a 5 icd to avoid abusing it (Still assumption there, no idea of the facts)

God I wrote so many wrong things… let’s remember not to write at 3:30 am…

Dustin.2793:

Mesmers are indeed broke/ overpowered.

That brought so much to the whole ordeal, thank you for that very constructive and useful input, we are adding your pertinent arguments to the list.
Feel free to add more

xDudisx.5914:

There is no risk in play a ranged class with insta cast burst. Also its ranged abilities are either unblock-able or non reflectable. Top that with the one of the highest stealth, imunes and teleports on the game.

^ I sense some mad guy there,
Mesmer needs a fix and I can’t see many people disagreeing with that.
Blinding dissipation shouldn’t go through block and evade
PU gives too much stealth uptime and makes downright cheesy build
The Pledge encourage stealth camping
Confounding Suggestion makes our bust way too easy for an adept skill and needs a shave or an ICD per target.
I’d also like to have mender’s purity work for our third healing mantra and not create this annoying bug that reset our skill queue, making us needing to press our first skill after its proc many times.
If they could MtD viable, I’d be happy too, but I can satisfy myself without it…

The problem is, most people, here, QQ without knowing. And it’s not only about mesmer.
You QQ about rampage
You QQ about thieves
You QQ about Ele
You QQ about Burning
You QQ about Ranger
You QQ about Guardian
Nothing ever satisfy everyone, and everything is broken in the eyes of someone, and yes the game needs balance, yes some builds needs fix and all and I agree with it wholeheartedly, however my problem comes with kittenty whining about “problems” that doesn’t in fact exist, but you make them out because you don’t know what you’re against.

Ranged abilities non reflectable: true for greatsword and scepter? I think, because they aren’t checked as ranged like arrows or bullets from rifle.
Ranged Abilities unblocakble: False, beside the bounce on Mirror Blade all of our abilities are blockable, except blind on shatters, but that needs a fix.

Highest stealth: Highest stealth UPTIME, we have three skills giving us stealth if we have torch decoy and MI (4 with veil), the CDs are long and I do like to keep MI and Decoy as “saving-my-kitten ” skills.
Immunes: Blurred frenzy: half-a-second evade, vulnerable to retaliation, rooted during the skill, 12 CD; Distortion: 1s per clone and self shattered, 50 CD… Yes I can see the almighty immune there… OH signet gives a second when traited, but then, no teleport, no decoy or anything, just signet.

Teleport: Staff Phase retreat, which is a 240 port away from target, we don’t even control where we end up and doesn’t break stun, just get us away from kitten, which is nice. And Blink, 1200 range, Break Stun, 30 CD. Highest Teleports of the game checked…

Insta cast Burst: The burst everyone is talking about is a "Mirror Blade => Blink => Mind Wrack => Mind Stab => Distortion combo. Mirror blade cast is 3/4 second channel time, highly visible and telegraphed, Mind Wrack is instant, Blink is instant, but it needs to be well timed with Mirror Blade, Mind Stab is 1/4 second channel time. The burst is almost an all-in. I say almost, because other set of weapon is available. But Mind Wrack is on CD, most of the GS skills are on CDs and probably a couple of Power Lock has been used too… But it’s not instant cast nor one-shot kill. It’s a set of 4 very well timed (easily timed now because of Mantra that locks foe in place) Skill. An Fresh Air ele can do the same with the same amount of skills, really.

jportell.2197:

Vanthian.9267:

jportell.2197:

Wow so clearly there are people here that are new or relatively new.

Blurred frenzy was nerfed hard in 2013 May:
Blurred Frenzy CD increased by 20%
This skill now is an evade instead of an invulnerability.

So in a time when mesmers were hardly considered for teams ever, and halting strike did jack all for damage mesmer blurred frenzy was double nerfed.

Oh also! This was a time when Anet was considering putting an internal cooldown on deceptive evasion.

So maybe we should look at past nerfs before crying for more? Just maybe. If blurred frenzy is touched again mesmers will have no decent mainhand.

So full of it. Nerfed blurred frenzy? They changed it from a invulnerability to a evade which in this game are the same dam thing. You can’t be controlled or damaged, unless you already have condition on you, with both a evade and invulnerability.

The only thing that slightly affected you is the 20% increase on cool down and even that wasn’t much. It is still just as spamable just like the block for engineers which needs to be toned town.

Mesmer has always been strong 1v1 just like Thief have fine defenses without stealth even if all you people do is kitten the opposite. Most of this community that is left is just to bad to see it. That is why all the actual pvpers abandon ship a long time.

No they aren’t the same kitten thing. Before blurred frenzy was the only reason that sword was taken. Because illusionary leap missed its path to the target half the time. It also made it so mesmers could actually be in a team fight with out eating a face full of retal from guardians. It was a double whammy and right after that happened is when mesmers disappeared from the meta for quite a long time. The only reason sword was taken more recently is because we need a somewhat decent mainhand and illusionary leap after almost 3 years was finally fixed!

So no evade and invuln weren’t the same thing. And now people want to nerf the once nerfed blurred frenzy some more? What do you want it to be nerfed into now? 20s cooldown who’s activation time is so slow that there is no way it could count as an evade?

O wait. The devs would prolly do that.

Shh, don’t think they can’t triple nerf things, look at what happened to Ride the Lightning.
Range was reduced twice from 1500 to 1200 to 900
CD was increased twice also, don’t give them idea now

Shhh he wants his FotM, leave it…

From Chaos? I don’t think I have to worry =^.^=

You’ll create Mirror Bursting aids in our community

\O/ do it!

/15char

I was running this one awhile ago:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-RZ-3l;0k2G51S7gW-71;9;4UVW;0147247248;4SsWFT;1jzyvjzyv9J

Sustain/Boonshare/Condi mesmer
Was nice, but I got tired of it

tobascodagama.2961:

Pepsi.8907:

Yes that’s what I worry about too, Lockdown may seem viable, but really, it’s still inherently dependent on shatters to do well.

Absolutely. Consider what Chaos listed as the traits for MirrorBlink:

DOMINATION: II, IV, VIII
DUELING: II, IV, IX
ILLUSIONS: I, IV, VII *

• = Last tree is optional.

Replace Illusions with Chaos+CI, and you’ve got a Lockdown build.

I wasn’t saying that Lockdown was impossible, just that our condition uptime and the slow dps from Power lock doesn’t make it sufficient alone, we actually need somewhat of a shatter build to work with it
You can’t kill someone with lockdown alone.

Iavra.8510:

Being dependent on shatter is a good thing. It’s our main mechanic and things like clone death that work completely against it shouldn’t even have existed in the first place.

Yes, I don’t mean to say that shatters is bad or that we should have a non shatter build, it just that this core class mechanics makes it very hard for mesmers to pitch in and be viable in other builds that doesn’t depend on the shatter damage… which makes it very tricky to actually fix, because one wrong thing and we will get back to our not so very viable place unless played by highly skilled players.

tobascodagama.2961:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Blinding Dissipation completely unavoidable, even through blocks and dodges.
• The combination of confounding’s instant stun and Mesmer’s massive damage spikes/stealth leaving next to no counterplay.

All right, so the first point has a pretty obvious fix (make BD avoidable through evade/block). But what can we do about the second point without dropping our Power build out of the meta entirely?

Some thoughts off the top of my head:

• Move some of Mind Wrack’s power out of the skill itself and into traits like Mental Anguish/MoF.
• Normalise MW’s damage-per-illusion scaling so that your burst doesn’t hit as hard unless you have all three clones out.
• Reduce MW’s power/weapon damage scaling coefficient.
• Remove or nerf the Wastrel’s Punishment portion of Mental Anguish.
• Remove the Stun/Daze duration increase on Confounding Suggestions.

The danger with any of this is that Power Shatter Mesmer is still considered to be our only particularly viable build for sPvP. I don’t have to confidence in ANet’s balance team required to assume that nerfs to Power Shatter will come with compensatory buffs to other, edge-of-viability builds. In other words, while I think there might indeed be a problem that needs to be fixed, I worry that the fix will come at the cost of destroying Mesmer’s PvP viability entirety rather than making a surgical strike on one or two problematic play patterns.

The other proposal, of course, would be to add a small amount of additional Toughness/Vitality to all PvP Amulets, which would serve to increase TTK across the board. Low TTK is really the main thing that cause people to carry torches and pitchforks when it comes to PvP balance anyway.

Yes that’s what I worry about too, Lockdown may seem viable, but really, it’s still inherently dependent on shatters to do well.

Well my personal experience disagree with this, but I guess, at this point, it’s kinda moot since the patch rolled in and I may have played against kittenty people too.
Some class clearly countered me (Medi Guard, Zerker thief), but I could deal my fair share of damage and win my 1v1 against equal leveled people.

Eciton: It was harder to land before the patch, but it was still really powerful when done correctly in PvP…

And you can just search for Mesmer Burst Montage/Compi. 99% of them showcase this…
Me guilty too, though I stopped using torch in favor of pistol, leading to only have MI and decoy that I use more sparringly, it’s still an insane burst.

You forgot to mention to cast PBerserker somewhere in there to add even more OOMPH
Nothing like a PBerserker to make an opponent cry in despair

happened to a couple of others too

MidoriMarch.8067:

STEALTH is thief’s mechanic not mesmer’s.

Mesmer’s mechanic is all about clones and stealth is just like a sub skill that comes with it. Which means mesmer’s stealth shouldnt be better than thief’s.

u guys are saying that going into stealth so easily without hitting cnd or hs+bp combo almost no revealed , 30+sec stealth duration stacking is not op?

btw i dueled d/p thief and i could stay in stealth forever more than d/p thief does and u guys really thinking this is normal? Lol

Has someone stated in another forum, if we talk about what a class should and shouldn’t be (which clearly isn’t our privilege to argue) mesmers are master of illusions. The stealth they use is in fact invisibility made by bending the light around them (hence why veil is a light field and why mesmers stealth doesn’t stack with others )
Beside, mesmer gain nothing relevant in being in stealth for 30 sec. He get buffs that are usually gone when he gets revealed and he can reset a fight, which also affect the other player mind you. But having 30 sec of stealth uptime makes just more of a sacrifice of one if your passive procs or if you accidently AA and reveal yourself. You don’t get a buff by staying in stealth thousands of seconds… It’s annoying, yes. Needs a shave? Yes. Game breaking and in need of a hammer nerf that will blast it into oblivion? No.

It’s silly really, some of the complaints ARE justified and on those, I can,t see many mesmers disagreeing (PU shave, BD fix, CS shave, etc)
But sometimes it’s juste QQ for the sake of QQ without knowing a class… The revealed problem as been dealt with months ago, and many of those “invulns” stayed exactly the same as pre-patch, yet now it’s a problem.
Many don’t even know how the burst of a mesmer works, that it needs to go in melee for full potential.
Since when is blurred frenzy op either way… I saw it, QQ about blurred frenzy
Sword main-hand is the shadow of what it was, and people are still asking for nerf on something that hasn’t changed with the patch…
What will we see next? dodging shouldn’t produce clones because too OP?

Mesmer needs shaving on CS and PU and fix on Mender’s Purity and Blinding Dissipation
the problem with ele is burning, not ele
Rampage is an elite with telegraphed animation that are easy to avoid, l2kite

Interrupting rezzing
Mesmer’s Mass Invis, Mirror Blade and Mantra charge
Necro’s everything without stability
Ranger’s maul, swoop, rapid fire and barrage
Thieve’s heartseeker
Whirling Wrath

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a hardcore newb, scrub, terribad Mesmer as dubbed by the truly hardcore metabattle fanatics as seen in any thread/discussion I posted a gameplay vid in pre-patch. So if I can catch and dodge an incoming burst from a Mesmer, anyone can.

LOL Ross. We know your worth, don’t worry.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ross Biddle.2367:

phokus.8934:

The biggest issue with Mesmer is the amount of blinds that they can spam and you cannot evade it. Blinding Dissipation needs to have a cooldown (low, 5s) associated with it and be able to miss through evade/dodge.

Blind on shatter already has a CD attached to it.

F1 12s
F2 24s
F3 38s
F4 50s

Great case of percieved OP’ness where none exist, as though blind shatters are, or can be spammed like a thief can.

Thing that has been asked for that’s most reasonable is to remove the hit through evade. Seems reasonable enough (all other “through evade” condi applications were removed in the past).

Blind application goes through everything right now except i THINK invuln (could be wrong though) , this should really be fixed.

Yes it should, I can’t see many people saying it’s alright as it is. When you dodge or block, you dodge or block. No exception.

Morwath.9817:

Thief thingies

-> Burst? Mesmer needs plan a few things, to do so:
a) Mesmer needs to start Mirror Blade ahead of time and away from target without being seen (can use stealth)
b) Mesmer needs to teleport to the target at the optimal time during the 3/4 s of channel.
b) Mesmer needs to be in melee range for optimal burst output
c) Mesmer also needs to activate Mind Wrack and land Mind Stab at a relatively short interval
d) Mesmer Burst is higher because it lands simultaneously at least 3 skills the Mirror Blade burst itself is similar to Back Stab
-> Let me get the CC skills of Mesmer
a) Mantra of Distraction: 2 stun, 3 if traited, instant with 5 sec between charges, goes on background 30 CD needs 2 3/4 second to charge. Range of 1200 with 180 radius
b) Diversion: 38 CD shatter that lands 1s of Daze per clones/self shattered, override and doesn’t stack in duration, must have perfectly placed clones for the full potential, range of 1200 with 240 radius
c) Illusionary Wave: a CC but no daze or stun, push target.
d) Magic Bullet: Bouncing CC with a 25 CD, recharge faster when traited with interrupt, range of 1200, first target is stun for 2 and a half sec, second is dazed (stun if CS procs) for same amount.
e) Counter blade: Piercing daze with channel time of 3/4 sec and range of 900, 15 CD.
f) Chaos Storm: 240 radius dazing for 1 1/4s each pulse (1/s.) duration 6s range of 1200
The only reliable stun we possess at range, before a burst, is Mantra, if you get stun by a mesmer out of a fight you can be sure as hell the burst is coming soon. Good shatters don’t stun before bursting.
Stun from sword and pistol are taken by power lock, shatters uses torch. While staff usually replace GS (bye bye shatter burst) (except in double range, but then, no pistol, sword, or whatever)
-> Mesmers possess 4 stealth: The Prestige which is a 3s Stealth (6 if traited) on a 30 CD, Decoy which is, again, a 3s stealth time (6s if traited) with a 40 CD and MI, which is kitten stealth (10s if traited) on a 90 CD… and veil, a light feild very visible that stealth for 2s (4 if traited) on a 72 CD.
Our stealth, even with PU, are pretty mediocre on fairly high CD. None of them are lower than 30 and none are spammable, unless you use mimic, which takes a UTIL slot and is on a 90 CD (72sec if traited). We don,t get buff in stealth like thief, in fact, stealth bring us nothing but invisibility… no regen, no clear condis, no increase dps. Just pure invisibility.
-> Teleports? We have one. Blink. 30cd (24 if traited), 1200 range. That’s it. Maybe Phase retreat, but it’s no break stun and doesn’t bring you further than 400 range from your enemy (can go up ledges and things which is nice.)
About Portal, it’s not as OP as you make it look. Portal is glamour skill with a 90 CD that starts in the background, possess a 5000 range (I can’t go from home to far with this) and you basically have 60 s. to land your second door after the first, or else you’ll waste the skill. Yes, it can be game changing, but playing a portal well is hard and requires good team organisation.
-> Invuls? Our invuln: Distortion, 1 second per clone (total of 4), 50CD. Blurred frenzy, 1/2 s. of invuln, 12 CD. MAYBE signet if traited, but most of your UTIL is taken by signet, no decoy, no port, nothing. But again, 1 s. of invulnerability on fairly high CD.
-> Spammable Blinds? Yeah, but:
a) Mesmer has to sacrifice shatters, which leads to damage loss, CC loss, Sustain loss.
b) Mesmer possess a total of four blinds, respectively 12, 25, 38 and 50 CD.

You’re all happy and all to point fingers at mesmer claiming it’s brokenltyOP, you don’t even understand the class properly… It needs to be shaved and fixed, not nerfed to the ground.

Photoloss.4817:

Fay.2357:

Truly point blank mirror blade from stealth has no travel time, and is effectively instant. Combining that with a dodge and shatter and MoD to proc CS at the same time will often 1shot a zerker build.

That combo can absolutely be executed in under half a second.

But how would you prevent that? It doesn’t rely on PU and the individual skills are pretty balanced (except maybe CS, but a high ICD would do nothing here)

In sPvP you can obviously fiddle with the amulet stats until it’s unable to oneshot anything, but that affects all other builds and playstyles as well.

Actually, what if stealth worked like in Starcraft, so you can still see the silhouette of the enemy? Ofc you still can’t target them directly, but at least you see their rough position. Could obviously be tweaked to show only a blurred cloud (where you can’t even make out the number of stealthed players standing next to each other), a blurred silhouette (where you can’t make out specific skill animations, but see they’re doing something), or the full model like we already get for allies.

If the mesmer isn’t stealthed you can at least see the mirror blade animation before they blink to you.

Yes I wondered about that too… Why not completely invisible when immobile and only seeing a faint untargetable blur when moving.
It’s not overly apparent, doesn’t break the mechanic tand at least it gives a chance for the target to react if they pat attention to their surrounding… As it is there is no sound, no visual, no indication that something is approaching.

I was preparing a flame reply even before I read but you… I like you!
This is so true, I need to start into looking at guardian and profession because I’m always rupting the wrong skill and end up against invuln or block.
I can’t name every skill, but I mostly know what to expect from the stance the player adopt.

^ and that’s exactly why I hate playing with pugs… Saying to get team play out of one’s head is wrong and will hurt him more in the long term.
Yes he should learn how to play at first, but knowing when decapping far, +1 a fight or helping a teammate to peel off should be mandatory to learn as a thief. All of this is team play. Not getting in outnumbered fight, learn to wait a few sec in spawn to rally with teammates, knowing to go home with 2 people at start of a game or hell, just listening to what people tell you to do in a game is team play…

It’s not about never getting hit, it’s probably impossible to do even with perfect micro managing and kiting. Mistakes are bound to be made, but choosing which skills to dodge and which to take is probably what works best.
IMO rampage is a slight bit over powered,not horribly so because it’s an elite skill with a very long CD, but it could use a shave.
A whole nerf? No, I’m glad to finally see warriors out of their rezzing banner mold they were almost forced to keep before.
Elite like rampage, lich and moa are what every class should have. It may be an I-win button, but it’s on a long CD and they are basically making sacrifice for a part of the game because they are stuck without it.
I don’t see anyone crying about lich, and yet, before the stability nerf they got, one lich could make a whole team leave a point. Rampage is on equal o-kitten reaction than pre nerf lich and that’s how I feel elite skills should be.
Tornado is laughable, basilisk venom is merely annoying and so is root, while fgs is a running shoe weapon…those should get revamped.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Pepsi.8907:

Funny, I made a very similar build on metabattle, but I’ve been told that it was a weaker version than the current meta mantra double range shatter because I used pistol :/
I can agree that it’s weaker with proper argument, not because pistol in a power build is bad in 2015

ANYWAY, I’m curious as to why you’re using Time warp without Tenchanter? Wouldn’t it be a better synergy?

You know what? Time Warp is great, but just take MI.

Anyway, usually when people want a laugh they go see a local comedian. But when I want to really get my belly ache on, I go to metabattle. So I fully understand where you’re coming from having wasted your time posting there. At least, though, comedy has won.

yeah, the kind of comedy that make you cringe ahah x)
It was just a bit weird to see a build so quickly dismissed because of one weapon, but yeah, I either take MI or even Moa with Rune of traveler instead of pack

Funny, I made a very similar build on metabattle, but I’ve been told that it was a weaker version than the current meta mantra double range shatter because I used pistol :/
I can agree that it’s weaker with proper argument, not because pistol in a power build is bad in 2015

ANYWAY, I’m curious as to why you’re using Time warp without Tenchanter? Wouldn’t it be a better synergy?

ASP.8093:

Pepsi.8907:

It’ll probably proc more often on evade than block… We have access to two bloc out of all of our weapon set and even then, only one is actually used as a block because of the torment it gives

You’re forgetting about all that sweet, sweet Aegis, though.

Ahah you’re so right x) how could I dare forget about aegis

skcamow.3527:

Ross Biddle.2367:

You can also proc the 4th clone off decoy, or the Defender from the Inspiration line on evade or block

Fixed that for ya

It’ll probably proc more often on evade than block… We have access to two bloc out of all of our weapon set and even then, only one is actually used as a block because of the torment it gives

I like DE, but with the current state of mesmer I don’t feel it’s as mandatory as before for a shatter build. I can pick harmonious mantra without feeling like a core class mechanic is missing and I like that.
It has the worth and feel of a GM and is definitely in a good place, but there are other viable choice in the same line and even in different one. I don’t feel impaired without the trait and can still pump out enough clônes while not wasting dodges for the production. It’s different.

Lol nice b8 m8 I r8 8/8
/15Trolls

Cynz.9437:

Morwath.9817:

Cynz.9437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Cynz.9437:

fluxit.8247:

Its the payoff for having to stand there and charge for 2 and a half seconds and it only procs chaotic interruption and power block if you interrupt a skill.

It has always been an instant cast skill. All mantras have been an insta cast skill since the beginning of time itself and youre just now complaining about it?

Furthermore, this skill can be countered by blind and atability, and the number of charges is clearly written on the mesmers status bar.

PLay a zerker mantra mesmer with 4 mantras fo your utilities. That takes micromanagement to a new level but the burst, oh the burst is glorius

the odd moment when utility with similar effect is way better than elite (see basi venom)

It’s all relative. You know, considering basi venom is attached to Thief with its irreconcilably broken initiative system :/

still, similar effect (but worse than mantra), about same cast time, has a tell as well~

mes and thieves also fill same role

also, mes are welcome to have ini system but then all of their wep skills would get nerfed hardcore for balance (like anet did with thieves) oh and ini would be shared between 2 weapon sets so no more casting everything on GS and switching to s/x for defensives

something tells me if it did happen, mes would cry rivers about how weak they are~

Ini system = no CD system = mirror blade spam.

i am telling you, you are welcome to have it if you get same treatment that all weapon skills from thieves received… aka quite weak by themself unless combined or spammed few times in a row…

except then you will end up spamming mirror blade like 4 times, suddenly realize that you don’t have any ini left for anything else and die

A 11k backstabbing is weak,
A 3-4 heartseeker is also weak… So is that 7k passed the threshold
Alright, checked

I don’t know what they now consider over time and burst, but IMO, when it hurts enough that I don’t have the time to clear from the point until I notice the stack (let’s say at 50% health) and aimed to cleanse, it’s a burst