Guild Wars 2

I meant that the 1v1 argument is poor and personal but that is their way of helping engi with CC weakness. There is a lot that should change about the game but I lack the trust,patience and bravery to use my time to do much about it.

Yes a great solution can’t fix it delete it instead of using knowledge to improve like war rifle ex-bleed #brainpower.

Sagat.3285:

The title is yelling out :“Moving on…”. I LOLed at Backstab spam.

Arken.3725:

Except that degree of passiveness is toxic for the game. Maybe add more stun-breakers to the Engineer’s kitten nal?

I said could fix option but….
-Are they toxic in team environment or the forbidden 1v1?
-Do we trust balance or have personal opinions?

It’s interesting talking balance in pvp when conquest is the main mode and courtyard a let down.

No boon removal melee specs complaining about melee boon spec hehe I am dying. When a spec max out boon and healing through traits and runes its is normal that those two are their main strenght.

Run the counter spec even if is not conquest meta then maybe we’ll have new modes. It’s like complaining about turret in conquest when their only purpose was,is and will be pvp conquest…..dying….

Arken.3725:

Monmalthias brings up some really good points, a lot of these changes would most certainly make the engineer rely more on the actual skills their using instead of the traits doing the work for them.

I still want to bring up the topic of defensive traits. Protective shield/Injection are also poorly designed traits. The whole purpose of CCing someone is to setup burst, why reward someone who was unable to avoid it with damage reduction? Maybe attaching some of these to skills or maybe gain protection when successfully stun-breaking out of a skill?

Edit: Once again, i’m sure quite a few professions have access to some of these but the discussion here are Engineer’s.

Engineer is the best against CC in a 5v5 environment ^^ so good my only stun break is with Elixir Gun love the CD.

There needs to be some degree of “passive trait” since the options are limited,could fix the options but I am low on expectations.

So many wants to see it as power runes lol it will stay the same maybe it will be the rune future celestial thieves use if the class is kept alive. Surprised no one made condition suggestions.

Why need a stealth elite when we already have fair access to personal with weapons alone and shared stealh if utilities are added?

I believe you are looking for SB.

Necro balanced around Terror??? The meat bag DS is holding us not Terror, it needs adjustments to sync more with builds other than power.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Change Shadows Rejuvenation into Night’s Watch.

Grants Aegis when entering stealth.

It’s a healing trait line there has to be some sort of free healing….duh.

hihey.1075:

Bad troll is bad.
1/10

^ Don’t feed -10/10 just complaints as always.

+1000 unadressed issue..

Sagat.3285:

Waste of a thread but meh the ones that should count weren’t adressed.

^Don’t bother turning this into a thief spec discussion but if you want my opinion: you don’t run at least two in SA unless you use s/x in wvw you have a phobia of judgement and you are trying to fit in. #peerpressure

Sagat.3285:

Conquest is the only guilty….

MisterBang.3516:

Am I alone as a WvW player that hates PvP?
I mean I really do hate PvP….

Hate is a strong word but I do dislike the conquest aspect of it,prefers wvw

Conquest is the only guilty….

Conquest is the only guilty,celestial ele is at advantage with this game mode that favours melee and bunkers,area combo field and finishers,the game mode that weakens the zerkers and limit diversity.

I see non-meta builds kill them in pvp but because of conquest those builds stay at hotjoin level, in wvw they are not as effective you only see them like that because of conquest.

All those complaints about might stacking and celestial are illusions conquest favors them.

Waste of a thread but meh the ones that should count weren’t adressed.

Lamuness.3570:

Question about this, if they say this Rune of the Thief is supposed to give precision and condi damage, does that mean that is what this class is meant to be like? Or am I reading too much into it.

Well some thieves played the gimmick 2 6 0 0 6……Trickery+Critical Strikes is precision+condition damage maybe they foreseen it lol so kind of unlikely to change lol.

Maybe they dont want none but they could remove the extra adrenaline gain and restore the bleed but meh I’m low on expectations at this point.

LB is chosen for CI and support,condition war just happen to benefit more of it then power. Still great for hybrid tough.

The title is yelling out :“Moving on…”. I LOLed at Backstab spam.

DrLane.5248:

Sagat.3285:

PvP is not PvP it’s conquest.

Conquest mode has pvp inside and many others things to care (rotations,grp comp that is not only suited to kill ppl-> mobilityand many more) , which is way more enjoyable than a tdm .

And dont think adding a TDM mode will change smthing , the best player in conquest will be the best TDM players aswell

It would be nice to at least have it I only dislike conquest because it limits builds diversity and is labeled the face of pvp,the courtyard was barely noticed.

The should reput jewels in pvp and put all gear to normal stats=bezerker and rampager no longer have vitality and let players have a choice to choose more vitality through another jewel.

Conquest,where “bunker holding points builds” takes in a bigger percentage than actual player vs player limit builds→unstable balance→messes up player mentality→poor pvp experience.

D/P can reset stealth no matter what SA or not, if you play Trickery d/p then yes against those builds you will actually stay in stealth longer and rely on well time steal(Mug+300 condition damage) while if SA you get quick recovery and can attack more often(more initiative gain+toughness+healing power+cleansing+healing). Trickery is mainly chosen for utility on burst thief SoH and Bountiful Theft some thieves even run 6/6/2 rather than trickery in WvW you see differently in PvP because of conquest where only a few play SA.

I see SA and DA s/d thieves in WvW you don’t have to get acro so to me it’s a 50/50 thing assuming they don’t have a phobia of judgement ,many burst thieves(why wouldn’t you on condi) thieves also chose Trickery because of fear.

coglin.1867:

It is just as reasonable of an accusation as any of those directed at the might stacking ranger build, engineers, elementalist, warriors, guardians(empower for example)………..Claims to point fingers at just 1 or 2 profession s are both unreasonable and unfactual. What makes it so active or reactive on one profession and not others?

He said it not me I don’t know any passive might at all even on Strength Runes which I found reactive. All personal might gain is reactive(anticipated or reflexe),or active. IP on engi is active you have to crit and hit,fear on cc on necro(forgot name) reactive.

Only real passive aspect is Nightmare Runes, the fear should activate on cc.

dancingmonkey.4902:

laquito.5269:

The builds everyone is complaining about should be obvious. Generic 0/0/2/6/6 D/D & Staff Ele, Warrior Axe/Sword + Bow & Cele Rifle Eng. These might not be purely OP, but they’re at least overperforming in comparison to other classes that use a similar combo. Hell, Ele wouldn’t even be viable if it wasn’t for the ridiculous sustained heal/damage it gets through the Celestial amulet.

So you pretend to want to list the builds, but narrowly avoid it, bravo. Use this site

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

This way you can show us the traits. Now go ahead and give us a break down of how you stack the might and how you maintain it in a fight. Especially the rifle engineer. It has already been pointed out repeatedly that rifle/cele build doesn’t stack might, but if you claim it does, I am curious to hear your break down on it.

Cynz.9437:

i run trickery thief meaning i can steal those might stacks every 20 sec and i just couldn’t do it because of boon prioriziation….i fought celestial might stacking dd ele, he had around 20 might stacks, no matter how many times i hit him with steal he kept those stacks because they would be always covered by regen, protection and what not… same goes for engis….

What game mode were you in? What build are they using? Why is it okay for thieves to stack it? Power of Inertia (might when dodging), Hidden Assassin (2 stacks might when going stealth), Signets of Power (5 stacks might for using a signet), Thrill of the Crime (might and other boons when stealing), Venomous Strength (multiple might stacks per venom used)………………………..Thief is one of the largest offenders of the ability to spam stealth, run full dire gear, being defensive while maintaining large stacks of might, stealth spam, survivability, and abuse the system worse then engineer or ele, and they can use gear that is much more survivable then celestial gear, yet do more damage. They really need to nerf the traits that allow thieves to mindlessly gain passive might with no effort.

Do you think effectiveness and trade off or do you just panic at the sight of a quick might stacking and exaggerates on forums like others?

That’s my first time hearing of this passive no effort might on thief I have only saw reactive and active might.

PvP is not PvP it’s conquest.

Is this PvP? You do know that spec is weak against conditions,range burst,cc and focus fire. Let me guess you lost 1v1….Were you spec to counter…even a little bit?

jcavlopes.1736:

Starsurfer.7209:

jcavlopes.1736:

He is not suggesting a nerf, he wants to redesign the thief.

And thieves stealth, if you haven’t traited in shadow arts is just a nice trick, at best a vantage giver. It’s definitely not about damage mitigation and a very unreliable form of damage avoidance.

Making stealth significantly more difficult to use? Getting rid of teleporting skills altogether? Yeah, those are nerfs and rather large ones at that. What’s more, his suggested redesigns would only make the thief capable of doing a mediocre job of mimicking other classes. Our current kit doesn’t come anywhere close to supporting the changes he suggests. At best, they’d make us a poor man’s warrior or ranger. At worst, it would make the class almost useless in comparison to other classes. The only way it could do anything positive for the class would be if Anet scrapped everything and started from scratch… And even then, we wouldn’t be the thief class most of us fell in love with now, would we?

As for the stealth comment, note that I didn’t say it was a perfect mechanic. There are many reasons why stealth is not adequate enough to act as one of our sole sources of defense (I’m looking at you Rapid Fire). But the answer isn’t to nerf it further, take away our only other defense mechanism (teleporting), or try to turn us into something we’re not. That helps no one.

Well, I’m not saying his design suggestions are good, or don’t end up somehow nerfing thiefs. That’s a collateral of him not being very thoughtful. He did state he wants to redesign it though. And i think at least there he is right on the point.

Thief class needs serious redesign, and if i where in the pvp balance team i would overhaul the entire thief mechanics. Not only that, but many other problems i see with the current pvp “balance” – this includes reworking other classes too.

Please say conquest and not"pvp" because of that mode the builds and rotations are limited it favors bunker builds anyway. WvW is the one place you feel “free” as a thief.

Trying not to say it…trying so hard….I will: You are not a thief just an assasin and I am personally disappointed you want a redisign rather than the improvements we need for the current reality.

Lol…1v1…0 chance…burning too strong….condition guard says hi…..passive cleansing on medi guard….lol……

Still waiting on something else than conquest which limits thief builds in pvp and guardian also has lower HP than thief and cannot disengage,lack mobility……..lol…..

kyubi.3620:

actualy to be viable they would have to remove dot damage from pistol and grant it an extremely increased base damage on both unload and AA :/

We have no need for a second condition ranged weapon.

Your statement contradicts itself.

Johje Holan.4607:

Sagat.3285:

Stealth is cleansing,healing,blind,initiative, stomp,reset,damage…adjustments wouldn’t cut it no matter how many…

Perhaps you have me confused with the OP. But in any case given what you said here I think you’re demonstrating my point.

Yeah kind of lol but like someone just mentioned thief is also the only one with the stealth attack design.

Johje Holan.4607:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Read my comment again… You did nothing to prove that it is a problem with the game’s mechanic, but once more reinforced your believes as to why you struggle with it…

But hey, I am a nice guy… I will give you a hint as to where to start: Redesign Thief completely… Number by number, trait by trait… good luck

There’s nothing to prove. I believe that it would be better if it were changed. And most people agree with me rather than you that it is perfect as it is.

And I don’t have to redesign thief. I and others can and have given them some points. That’s the purpose of the Profession Balance thread. To discuss Profession Balance. It’s Anet’s job to address the comments or not and implement or not the suggestions of the players.

Anyway you are prone to extremes and exaggerations I detect (perhaps why you like thief and stealth as it is). You wouldn’t need to redesign it completely, number by number, trait by trait. Adjustments true, a complete redesign no.

I prefer reliable people rather than most people it’s all about quality not quantity. Your problem is that you see stealh as just invisible and avoid the rest. Stealth is cleansing,healing,blind,initiative, stomp,reset,damage…adjustments wouldn’t cut it no matter how many…

Stealth untraited or traited plays a bigger role than you and your supporters think so yes a redesign would be necessary. 5 minutes CD……just wow…..they don’t even have to look at this thread.

First sentence… = moving on..

The problem is the combination of all those exaggerations and the ignorance of thief opponents. I know players that quitted thief because they found it too hard,any decent player knows how to counter all thief’s sets,they are more than 1 build out there capable of doing so against each of them, so what if you don’t kill him they’re built to reset fights,stop mentioning 1v1…..

Leave your self-made Nightmareland….

QQ from duels and ignorance I only believe in improvements.

lorndarken.3702:

Sagat.3285:

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

it’s at the top or did you not read ?

You do know to stealth the thief has to hit,use time and initiative or blow a long CD skill right?

Mr. OP forget how this affects thief in squad : channel skills don’t stop when you stealth,neither do bouncing skills , reduced movement in stealth means less chance of getting out so luckily a mosquito doesn’t hit you. You need to take of all of thief now the aspect you prefer….It’s a failed topic stealth is meant to disengage for a while(not perma) to reengage due to the initiative system and thief defense,you can’t make a medium class a heavy one because you want to change stealth.

Perma stealth is an exaggeration from whiners.

oxtred.7658:

IF you gave mobility, defense and condi removal to P/P, you’d need to nerf its damage by half.

-1

1)Pain Response(change the name) now removes 1 condition on dogde 8 sec CD gain 3 sec regen if a condition is removed 2) BP pulses every second again, blind duration has been reduced to 1 sec, the shot physical projectile finisher and blind effect has been removed and now only goes to the ground 3) Unload now as evasive frame upon activation 3/4 sec 4) Fleet of Foot(change the name) increase sword damage by 5%.

Arganthium.5638:

In order for P/P to be viable, it would need 1) good access to condi removal 2) a stronger defensive mechanic than Black Powder (though, if P/P became good enough, Black Powder’s blind pulse might have to be nerfed), and 3) more mobility.

1)Pain Response(change the name) now removes 1 condition on dogde 8 sec CD gain 3 sec regen if a condition is removed 2) BP pulses every second again, blind duration has been reduced to 1 sec, the shot physical projectile finisher and blind effect has been removed and now only goes to the ground 3) Unload now as evasive frame upon activation 3/4 sec 4) Fleet of Foot(change the name) increase sword damage by 5%.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Failed topic. Adrenaline =/= DS

dancingmonkey.4902:

lorndarken.3702:

allow mesmers , thieves to stay in it for as long as they want to . the moment they are attacked or attack they can not re enter stealth for 5 mins . so no in combat stealth ,

Where is the rest of your post?

What are you going to add to every skill a thief has to compensate for completely removing the one aspect it is balanced around?

^Waiting as well….

I like reality so I can’t see this happening,the combat system is too different but I loved it despite the game’s current state.

WvW (roaming,squad) and PvE yes thief is more than usable I don’t pay much attention to conquest also never take 1v1 seriously . The biggest mistake a thief can make is disengage too late don’t limit your self to certain builds or variations.

I’m not a zerg type of thief but when I do I use ricochet p/p / SB with Smoke Screen+IP+Dagger Storm but obviously inferior to proper a zerg build and I mostly stay in the background,just here for unseen damage and blindness.

When conquest is not the only pvp mode I might start thinking your statement can make sense.

NinjaEd.3946:

Sagat.3285:

Zero Day.2594:

NinjaEd.3946:

I’d much rather have traps removed for something else…

I second this. Give the traps to rangers (more) if you so want to keep them in the game.

How about no? Trap p/d was born of those runes I oppose!!!!!

The only reason these runes exist were to give rangers another thing to be excitied for, thief was just the fortunately in the crossfire and received the same treatment similar to the dagger aa hitting 2 targets now that necro got.

Thief traps still suck, and have no place in the thief kit. Thief is about reacting and adapting quickly, not sitting around a bunch of trigger effects waiting for someone to put mediocre debuffs on themselves. If I wanted that I’d play engineer turrets or minion mancer with staf or better yet, ranger trapper whose traps actually have results…

Assasin if you play trap thief like trap ranger uninstall p/d is not the same as d/p.

Edit: It is kind of sad that we are using traps because of a runes but I can’t compare the playstyle to MM or turrets wich are only viable in conquest or even ranger traps which messes up the stealth bonus and the spec not being a reliable one either lol. While thief has stealth traits all around and p/d is know for it’s lack of mobility lol the effect was greater on thief than ranger,assasin.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

Some random gunslinger gameplay from C9 I found for comparison. There’s some neat ideas in there.

http://youtu.be/0hxoMlg6Vvs

I have heavenly and demonic memories of that game,every new class was OPer than others and the customer service went from best to horrible.

Loved it tough I use to main ranger,scout and war.

Is annoying the same as broken or OP?

It should have been a trick just like Withdraw and HiS a deception.

Lucentfir.7430:

lol…..and this changes nothing. I’d rather see something more useful for thief like more Initiative gain, or more % damage amplifiers when triggered, stuff that will make them interesting to play.

Condi d/d is weak,perplexity got boring at least there is a reason to even consider traps,stop thinking power condi specs exist as well.

Too much power variations of thief around…

Zero Day.2594:

NinjaEd.3946:

I’d much rather have traps removed for something else…

I second this. Give the traps to rangers (more) if you so want to keep them in the game.

How about no? Trap p/d was born of those runes I oppose!!!!!