Guild Wars 2

Why do people ask this, when in nice yellow letters it says at the bottom:

NOT FROM ARENANET. FROM A PLAYER.

Azrael.4960:

Depends on how you define evil. Caithe killed Wynn, at hear request, to prevent the knowledge of Mordremoth falling into Faolain’s hands. By most people’s standards, that act was for the greater good as it prevented more Sylvari from falling into Nightmare. By modern standards, the fact that Caithe bears a great deal of pain for that act, but is forgiven by the Pale Tree, would normally have her labelled as “good”. If she had done the same act, but her intention was just to keep it out of Faolain’s hands and to make use of it herself, that would have her labelled as evil.

Faolain is ruthless but only evil in a modern sense. One could classify her as a sociopath or maybe even a psychopath. She holds no remorse for what she does and will ruthlessly do whatever it takes to do it.

When you look at it, the only bad thing about Faolain are her methods and not really her ideals. She just felt the pale tree didn’t love her for being her, and was trying to make her into something else. Though it could’ve happened before in another memory, perhaps a talking with her mother could’ve resolved all of this.

Huh, this could get very interesting and complicated delving into sylvarie psychology

The last time I saw walls bleeding, there was a disembodied voice bellowing “Get out!”

Nyx.7342:

Serophous.9085:

This is cute, and reminds me of my DnD session last week.

wait…cute in a good way or a bad way

but yeah on one hand i dislike the gold system and then on the other hand i love it. So hard to figure out

Because in the end, the gold system works. Maybe someone at Anet had this happen to him too many times in their own DnD campaign but was thankful that the time and money spent to prepare and fight their way through a dungeon wasnt wasted on an item that no one could use, and would’ve just been left there if it couldn’t be sold, thus making the whole campaign worthless except just for xp.

As for the OP, if gold and money have you that worried, people have already said how laurels help already getting the gold to buy the dye you need (i honestly dont know why you want to play with RNG). If anything, go to the wardrobe, design your look, write down what armor pieces you need and what dyes you may need to buy (if too expensive, look for one that can be very similar), and there is your goal. Need trans charges? Create a level 1 and do a city map completion to get free ones.

Nyx.7342:

Gw2 does suffer from the problem that many of the things you want to get, you can really only get through gold. If you want to get a nice skin what do you do? Do you go on an adventure to find all the things you need to make it and then put it together. Most likely no, you will just farm gold and buy it. Same thing with dyes. Should you go out and play the game collecting your dye drops and hoping to get the one you want. No instead you’re told to just get gold and buy the dye you want.

Its not entirely a bad system but at times it can really ruin the fun of a game where you’re supposed to be having adventures and exploring and progressing your character.

This is cute, and reminds me of my DnD session last week.

DM: Ok, the boss is dead. You find his longsword which you can tell is magical. And (bunch of random gems and stuff to just sell).
Me: So no greataxe?
DM: No greataxe.
Me: Why did I even choose this weapon and specialize in it?!

Oh but hey, the sword was worth a lot of money and I was able to BUY a new greataxe! Woohoo! Thanks gold system! Works even out of GW2!

wow, did everything in a whole hour in a beta….

worse xpac evah

I’d probably go with my necro charr. In which case, if i started behaving like him, I’d probably have few to no friends….but plenty of corpses….

Many…many….corpses….

Its best this doesn’t happen >.>

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Instead, what would be better is for ANet to figure out why stuff like this happens and take steps to prevent us from seeing it. If they are able to do that, great: problem solved. And if they aren’t, then it won’t matter how many resources they throw at testing; we are still going to see issues in the live environment.

Well….they can’t figure out why stuff happens, if no one points it out. And having more eyes around TO point out stuff is a benefit. I mean, yes, there is a thing as too much, but there is also a thing as too little.

So yes, public betas are good for the game and community when GOOD feedback is involved. Sadly, not all feedback will be good. If someone just comes up and says “Dis sux, bad, doesn’t work, not fun” and doesn’t elaborate, yeah I categorize them as just a person testing server load. But you do get people in public betas that can say “This is bad because…., this is glitched when…., What would make this more fun to me is….” then those people I’d rather listen to.

So, getting those people to speak, offer good feedback, can help anet implement the measures to be more preventive the next time. But players must also remember one other thing; devs are people too, are prone to mistakes like overlooking something or making a bad call, and just not perfect. Yes, you can hold them to your high standards, but holding them to perfect standards is wrong.

Behellagh.1468:

Problem with most Public Test Servers is that players rather explore the new content, choose to gossip about that and will put up with the bugs rather than constructively report them.

Pretty much this. Many public testers go in to play the game, and not test. Sure, they’ll offer some feed back of a bug or two, a broken event, or something that doesn’t seem fun, and yes, companies need that feedback too.

But the minority of public beta testers are spending time trying to ‘break’ the game, or ‘break’ something, because they know “wait, this is beta, i’m ALLOWED to find a cheat, exploit, unintentioned combination, etc as long as I report it so the devs fix it to make a better game”. I don’t blame many people in betas for not thinking like this, playing the game live, its hammered into your head to NOT do this stuff or ELSE, so people don’t go looking for it.

So I hope that the people getting into the stress test (which yes is seen as how much the game can hold with so many people, and further tests usually mean that larger amounts of people are allowed in) I hope those testers STILL try to break the game or find flaws or something so we get a better product in the end.

hmm…

Well, lets look at a game that does technically do something like this, Greed for Glory (another clash of clans clone blah blah). Now, in Greed for Glory, you dig up a treasure X, and after some time, you get a chest. What can you do with this chest? Well, you can open it and get all the stuff if you have a key (or buy one with 50 gems), or you can break it open, in which case you only get ONE item, the rest are smashed and lost. So its still a risk.

So, could doing something like this hurt Anet’s revenue? Well, if anet decides to release that info, then we could answer. But since they won’t, we’ll never know, so anything said is speculation.

But, for the sake of fun, lets not try to think of the revenue part (let anet worry bout that), and see how this could work.

First, I don’t believe we need a new item to crack them open. We all have perfectly sized weapons, sharp or blunt, or can find one that can already crack them open. So no need to add something new*.

But the way i see it, sure, have it when its smashed open, two of the items are destroyed, and either leave the third untouched, or “downgraded”, IE a ticket to a scrap. People could still get very lucky and perhaps(?) still get something rare like their own BL merchant or endless personal hair kit, mini, or something.

Problems that could arise are the chests skyrocketing in price from demand (though, might not be SO bad, since now it wont feel like trash, despite being blue). The other being that yes, if it does show they get a majority of their revenue from the keys, then it would probably be bad (though, frustration of the potential to lose could also scare people into buying keys as well).

*if anet is that worried about the profit, and players really want an item to do it, then create a hammer that you buy for gems, but with 25 uses to bash open chests. BUT the price should only cost 1/3rd the price of 25 keys (since you will be losing 2/3rds of the items). But then there shouldn’t be any item degrading. Thus, it is technically still keeping their RNG, just players having to bite the bullet and deal with MORE RNG for a cheaper price.

pdavis.8031:

zenleto.6179:

pdavis.8031:

Dungeons and Dragons!

Not DDO, but the table top version.
Although there is no cash shop, it basically does have all that and more. :P

Though every edition since Ed 2 have been the Worst Update Ever!

Hehehe

I’ve heard that 5e was pretty good…

But the great part is, you don’t have to play anything other than 2e if you don’t want to :P

5e is decent so far. But they leave a lot of stuff vague (like trying to find out that now if you have resistance, its just a flat half dmg, but damage reduction to something still exists and give a number…). They also limit stats and amount of feats you get, which prevents becoming OP.

3e still my bread and butter though >.>

cleabh.5308:

Serophous.9085:

Now, there are still some issues I found. Like when in First person, i seem to be looking from my “waist”, and not head, so i gotta tilt my camera up.

You can put it on the top of your character’s head by enabling Adjust Camera to Character Height, but there’s no way to put it at eye level. I actually made a thread about this.

forgot about that, ty.

Entrea Sumatae.7830:

While adding maps to map completion as they come out does disadvantage people doing it later (not necessarily an unreasonable thing, but certainly a concern), adding three new maps, and fairly small, easy ones, at that, to replace the four WvW maps doesn’t seem like an unreasonable choice. Since, by all appearances, they’re done adding new locations prior to the expansion, it would really just be a one-time change that would be a mild inconvenience for people doing completion now, but make things a bit more intuitive in the long run. I think it would have been a good call to add the maps as they removed WvW from completion, but that ship may have sailed.

No, please stop. I’m NOT looking to add to map completion. I’m asking for the features that the other maps get to be added to the new ones, but NOT to map completion

ShroomOneUp.6913:

simply because you would have to add every new pve map in the future which would make it more and more harder to complete. jsut hypothetical the current completion map counts sais 20 maps.
go down three xpnasions several lvigins tory update you could easily go to 50 or 80 or even 100.
thats would mean to have 1% you need to do one map.
uhm no thats not goin to sit well at all

No no. Thats not what I am getting at here. I’m not looking to make map completion harder.

Go to any of the original maps, then hit ‘M’. On your left you see map completion at the top, and below it the zone completion. THAT’S what I am asking for. I’m also asking for the hover over feature that the old maps have.

Yes, I know the old maps have that in for map completion, but can it not be coded that the new maps have those features, and NOT add to map completion?

If anything, its confusing with just having the world completion there, and having to hover over that when it says I have all the vistas already, to find out what vistas I am missing in the new maps.

Khisanth.2948:

They are missing in those maps because they don’t count for map completion.

well yes, I know that. But it would still be nice to know how much of one of those maps are off in completion. Maybe in HoT they could be added in as a seperate world map completion?

I can attest to this as well happening.

Basically, Southsun, The Silverwastes, and Dry Top don’t have it when you hover over their names, a completion popup doesn’t happen, letting you know what you are missing. Also, the sidebar is missing for those maps when you are actually inside them, not giving you the info as well.

I AM NOT LOOKING TO ADD ON TO MAP COMPLETION!

I am asking for the information features the old maps have for the ZONE COMPLETION. This has nothing to deal with world.
Yes, hovering over the world map completion will cause what you are missing to shine, but its still a small inconvience.

I love it too. Going in against an undead and fighting it in FP actually made me just stop and look at the detail. I mean, holy crap I didn’t know how ugly the undead did look up close!

Now, there are still some issues I found. Like when in First person, i seem to be looking from my “waist”, and not head, so i gotta tilt my camera up.

And then there is the Camera shake. It REALLY jumps around with some attacks, especially warrior underwater with a spear. Just hit #5 skill and see what i mean. Turning it off does help though in those instances.

When you post a solution, not only must you think how it can still be fair to those that are legitimently afk for something, but how a leecher could still get around it.

Shortening the afk timer to set you to the nearest waypoint – Fair to those that do go afk for good reasons. Works. How can it be abused? Well, we may start seeing auto runners into walls, could be rangers who will have pets that will attack anything that gets near so credit is given, so someone using the autocast such as shouting as buffing allies and NPCs gives credit as well, not to mention just being there. And how short should the timer be? Still make it too long, and that leecher just needs to do is tab back in, do a small movement, and be okay. But make it too short, and holding a conversation with a guild or chat with anyone else could end up making you removed.
So this solution would need itself adjusted a couple times before being found right, not to mention it wouldnt deal with the auto runners.

Making the participation caps higher, and making the bronze, silver, gold matter could be more appealing. Raising the cap from simply being involved in the death of one enemy to get bronze would be better. Making it that reaching gold actually gives more rewards than bronze via the chests would be good too. But again, this would have to be adjusted and tested to try and block out those that leech simply with autoattacks, autobuffs, and pets while they stand afk, yet fair to those who do participate.

Throwing both ideas at the same time seems more reasonable, its just getting the figures correct is the problem, and in the end, may not still be the perfect solution, but still better than what we have now.

Obtena.7952:

Exactly. The idea just recasts the grind into some other form that is more pleasing to some players, but it still exists. Somehow, they have convinced themselves it’s a better option. Adding more avenues to allow grind is not a way to fix grinding. That’s been my biggest issue with his suggestion all through 40+ pages of these threads. Doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge that.

And that’s why all his suggestions are just laughable and pointless. As the thread that HE EVEN MADE, “A Grind is still grind”. This isn’t a thread to solve the issue, this isnt a thread to even acknowledge the issue. This is a thread by one person that cant seem to let it down that his ideas are bad, they don’t fix anything, they are just putting a different set of clothing on it and saying “See! Its different! It works and acts the same, but now its in a different suit!”

A Grind is still grind.

Why is grind a problem and why can’t we solve it? People have already stated it in this thread, but either ignored it and didn’t believe it. The first problem of grind is, we, as gamers, can not come to an agreement on what grind even is. Anet gave their definition and that was that, but people here cannot accept it because it isn’t their definition.

What’s grind to one person isn’t grind to another. Someone runs something 10 times, doesnt call it a grind, someone runs it 5, says it is. How do you solve that? How do you solve something that is known differently between each individual player?

The only solution for a developer is to pick their own definition and go by it. Will it work out? Who knows? It may, it may not, and when it starts to not, then there can be a review. But, other than high level fractals, who here has been denied access to any other content by the game because they didn’t have the “best gear”? Sure, you may get other players denying you party entry for not having it, but I have YET to come across anything implemented that I wanted to do that required a full set of ascended. I’ve played on my main who does have ascended, and I’ve played on alts that have mixtures of exotics and rares, and not even the correct sigils and runes, and I still play what content I want and not have been held back because of the gear I wear.

Grind is still grind. Again, so pointless of a statement as it is a thread title. Of course it is. No matter how you dress it up or change it to be “less grind”, its still a grind. You can’t make grind less grind because of people themselves and their feelings to what grind is to THEM. The best any developer can do is try to make the grind “fun”, and even that will fail as not everyone will see it as fun.

I’m done with this thread after this. Its already been shown the thread’s purpose isn’t to reduce grind, but to just shift it to something else. Grind is still grind. So I’m done talking to brick walls and running in circles. I’m going to do what we should be doing and just playing a game and having fun.

Now, let this post rot away and be ignored like the others while the tail chasing continues.

Devata.6589:

Serophous.9085:

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

maddoctor.2738:

Devata.6589:

maddoctor.2738:

So this thread is still all about arguing what is grind and what is not, arguing if GW2 is a grindy game or not and nothing about discussing changes to any of the game systems.

If you continue to debate what grind is, even though you know what the developers themselves feel about it, this one should get a lock soon. 3 pages and still no proposals for changes

I did see many proposals. Mine was putting items behind content.

So instead of allowing players to get whatever they want by doing whatever they want (play how you want?) you want to lock content behind specific content and have an impossible grind behind that content?

Yes, that’s pretty much it … the traditional MMO approach to getting loot. WE’ve already went over this in that LAST thread. The proposals I’ve seen so far simply reduce player’s ability to choose content; they don’t reduce grind at all.

How does is reduce player’s ability to choose content if all it does is ADD one new option? Working towards is directly. Again, as long as they are not account-bound you can still grind gold for it if that is what you like.

It would only be true for the items that are account-bound. But thats already the case with some items.

But the player IS working towards the item. By playing whatever they want, they are earning gold, the currency towards the item. Why does a brand new currency need to be implemented that would only come from one other specific source? How does even ADDING a new currency reduce grind? It DOESN’T. You are just shifting the grind to something else. And if you believe anet would make the token method faster, they are going to try and make it equal to other methods. In other words, the same amount of time. So that makes adding a new currency pointless once again.

You aren’t talking about reducing grind, all you have been doing is trying to actual make the grind either more annoying, or restricted.

It’s completely different when you do content for an item (so the item belongs to the content) or if you do ‘whatever’ to earn gold and then buy it, and then again, and again. Not to mention that this approach also means you are basically punishing yourself by not doing the content that rewards the most gold and it reduces the value of any item (that you can’t directly work for) to whatever is the easiest way to earn gold.

“Why does a brand new currency need to be implemented” Uhhm it does not.. No new currency, way to many currencies already in this game. Currency’s are more part of the problem then the solution.

“How does even ADDING a new currency reduce grind?” Where did you see my suggesting to put in a new currency. It would not be a currency coming from one place but the item you want. " It DOESN’T." That is why I did NOT suggest it.

Well your complete comment it based on something I did not suggest so there is not much more to say about it.

Also once again (how many times have I already repeated that in the last few comments? Just with other words) For any item that is not account-bound it is not more restricted, in fact it adds a new option, not take any away.

Because adding that new method does nothing else in solving the grind problem. ITS STILL A GRIND. Adding another option, DOES NOT REMOVE THE GRIND. In fact, adding the option would just make no sense.

Make a lever that says “pull here for loot”. Make a second lever that says the exact same thing right beside it. What is the point in the second method? It does the exact same thing, but resources and time were wasted to set it up.

Just give it up already. This whole crusade of yours hasn’t been to try and solve the grind problem, but either make it worse, or more tedious, or more pointless by wasting dev time. All for the sake for you to not grind for gold, which as the main currency being given and received, lets it opened up to allow the player to do and play whatever they want to get said item. Putting an item “behind content” is stupid to say, as a player doing anything like events or dungeons IS content, and getting gold from that CONTENT is working towards getting the item.

Devata.6589:

Obtena.7952:

maddoctor.2738:

Devata.6589:

maddoctor.2738:

So this thread is still all about arguing what is grind and what is not, arguing if GW2 is a grindy game or not and nothing about discussing changes to any of the game systems.

If you continue to debate what grind is, even though you know what the developers themselves feel about it, this one should get a lock soon. 3 pages and still no proposals for changes

I did see many proposals. Mine was putting items behind content.

So instead of allowing players to get whatever they want by doing whatever they want (play how you want?) you want to lock content behind specific content and have an impossible grind behind that content?

Yes, that’s pretty much it … the traditional MMO approach to getting loot. WE’ve already went over this in that LAST thread. The proposals I’ve seen so far simply reduce player’s ability to choose content; they don’t reduce grind at all.

How does is reduce player’s ability to choose content if all it does is ADD one new option? Working towards is directly. Again, as long as they are not account-bound you can still grind gold for it if that is what you like.

It would only be true for the items that are account-bound. But thats already the case with some items.

But the player IS working towards the item. By playing whatever they want, they are earning gold, the currency towards the item. Why does a brand new currency need to be implemented that would only come from one other specific source? How does even ADDING a new currency reduce grind? It DOESN’T. You are just shifting the grind to something else. And if you believe anet would make the token method faster, they are going to try and make it equal to other methods. In other words, the same amount of time. So that makes adding a new currency pointless once again.

You aren’t talking about reducing grind, all you have been doing is trying to actual make the grind either more annoying, or restricted.

@Devata
So, here’s what I am understanding.
Everything being a gold grind. You can almost buy everything and anything you want if you grind for gold. Didn’t get a specific item from an event due to RNG? Welp, at least the gold I earned opening all those bags and selling the junk allowed me to buy it off the TP, because people flooded it. So, I AM doing content and earning items behind said content.

So wait….why is this bad again? There are certain dungeons and areas that already have it you need a special currency for some items, or RNG drops, they are already there, it IS in the game and they ARE extremely rare sometimes.

But why is “grinding” for gold bad again? “Hey, there is an item on the TP I want, I wonder where it drops? Oh, I have to keep killing this type of mob over and over again hoping the RNG gods will bless me with the drop.” Sure, and the RNG may grant that person their wish, or it may not and thus a session of play time could be considered wasted by that player for running in circles, doing the same thing over and over.

Meanwhile…
“Hey, there is an item on the TP I want. Well, I don’t have the gold right now, I’ll just play how I want, I earn money that way.” And off he goes, doing whatever events or dungeons or pvp or wvw, etc and just enjoying the game. If he wants the item faster, he may look towards areas that offer more loot, or he could just..play the game.

Now sure, there needs to be some uniqueness with weapon skins that drop only in certain dungeons or areas, or rare items, and they are already in the game, behind the RNG.

But with almost everything being able to be put on the TP….I can practically do whatever I want, and I am automatically working towards my goal. Why is this bad? Why should limits be suddenly placed where now I have to attain a different currency suddenly, go on a quest that I don’t want to do, or complete and activity I hate? If there is no other choice, and I really do want the item, I’ll suck it up and do it, but not enjoy it. But if there is an optional way, a different way like..buying it with gold, then I’m going to play how I want and be able to get it while still having fun.

You think so much being behind gold is a bad thing? No, its a GOOD thing. Its giving the players choices in what they want to do when they log on, because unless they are sitting in LA roleplaying, or chatting in guild, they aren’t earning gold. Just playing this game earns you money. Some know they best spots to earn it, and if you are in a hurry, then you would look up those spots, others aren’t.

So you can go ahead and run your campaign against gold, as you clearly aren’t against grind. You support grind.

Wanze.8410:

Arrk.4102:

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

Any links to the patch notes?

Thought so….

It ceases to amaze me that someone can so easily just say “leaked patch notes” and everyone suddenly believes it….

Man, someone is getting a good laugh.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Carlin Sanders.3587:

Behellagh.1468:

They dug too deep …

Guild wars 3: main antagonists – demons from MORIA

Dude, it’s not demons from Moria. It’s “Hidden Fun Stuff”. Just ask Ogden about it, he knows.

Do you think it has something to do with his hammer…?

Maybe we’ll get some savings!

maddoctor.2738:

So this thread is still all about arguing what is grind and what is not, arguing if GW2 is a grindy game or not and nothing about discussing changes to any of the game systems.

If you continue to debate what grind is, even though you know what the developers themselves feel about it, this one should get a lock soon. 3 pages and still no proposals for changes

Because simply put, any changes implemented could easily be torn apart by someone else’s definition of grind. So yes, the thread is pointless, as was the previous one. Anet stated their definition, and are apparently working from there, but because its different than everyone else’s various definitions, its unaccepted, as well as everyone else definitions unaccepted with each other.

So yes, the tail chasing will continue on in this great circle, in which if it was a real thing, I would already be trying to harness it as some limitless power source.

MrHeartless.9164:

Then you have to take into account the people who are actually hoarding the materials to wait for the best time to sell, which is usually during peak hours, or waiting for the average price to go up. Wanze tried to do this with his “control the market experiment” knowing full well there are people who use bank space to hold on to multiple stacks of items, waiting for the time they feel is right to sell such items. So while you “calculated” out that only a “few” crafters are benefiting from this, again, you are wrong. I can bet there are TP traders who are holding on to pieces to sell, they are just smart enough to know that if you flood the market, you drive the price down. The most recent development of this was with precursors once they announced precursor crafting. Suddenly, the high costing precursors began to plummet on the market, because it began to flood from people selling from their banks.

So again, you cant even conservatively estimate how much of one ascended item is in the game just by looking at the tp briefly.
[/quote]

Again, the numbers stated were for the purpose of illustrating the point. For you, I stated the point without the numbers and all you have done was taken second hand info from someone who is not here to speak for themselves. Which is just as bad as when you accused me of going to sites for the numbers I guesstimated.

All of that and you still have not answered the question. Do you agree that the number of crafters who benefit from this timegating justify the inconvenience to the wider playerbase? That’s all I am asking you, I am not asking Wanze, I am asking you.[/quote]

What your asking for, is something only arenanet can answer. I can’t look up how many crafters there are who are making the materials every day compared to total population. I can’t look at people who DON’T craft, but instead buy the materials low and then sell them high, thus not even affected by the time gate. I can also not look into how many people take the ascended crafting bag after so many log ins, and get said crafting materials.

I also cannot speak for the wider playerbase, and neither can you, as I am certainly not inconvenienced by it, and as other posters here have said they aren’t either. You are apparently inconvenience, and you may know others that are inconvenience, but neither you, nor I can make a claim that the playerbase is.

So no, I cannot answer your question, because I am not going to set myself as the speaker of people I don’t know, and don’t know me.

I will speak for myself. No. To me the time gate doesn’t affect me at all. I play different aspects of the game that are fun to me, and rewarding. I have earned enough gold myself by just playing and saving items that I could finish my own ascended set right now if I wanted to, simply by buying off the TP, going around the timer. I have just chosen not to, because I feel there is no rush for it, as the majority of my gameplay doesnt even step into fractals, so ascended isn’t important to me.

And again, I am not going to make the claim the playerbase is inconvenienced, because I don’t know if the playerbase is or feels that way.

As for wanze, I’m not speaking for him, but rather using his research as a source:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-FAILED-to-manipulate-a-market-ROUND-2/first

Code.8615:

You love the game and almost everything about it, so this minor aspect of it made you quit.
That makes sense.

Actually, he has only played the game for four months out of two years. thats four months out of 24 months. In other words, 1/6th of the games current life time.

But that 1/6 of time is apparently far greater and far more important than people who have played it for the whole two years. His time is just that much more valuable than yours or mine apparently

MrHeartless.9164:

Serophous.9085:

MrHeartless.9164:

Samhaim.8956:

Snip
Just because you don’t understand why they implemented it it doesn’t mean it was arbitrary, so i’ll explain it to you:
Anet wanted crafters to be able to make money out of the new crafting levels, so they made it so that if you wanted to craft your ascended set as fast as possible you would have to buy the crafted pieces from, (you guessed it!), crafters. If they didn’t they the price for the ascended mats would be basically the price of base mats+1s and thatd be it, nothing to be gained for crafters. So with this system in place, crafters make money by selling their time-gated product to people that are impatient and can’t wait around to craft it themselves, and there’s no harm done to the people that are impatient since they’d be farming the money for it anyways.

So, you’re trying to tell me, that the reason I can’t utilise my 500 in armorsmithing to the fullest extent, the reason I have to farm gold or buy gems and sell them for gold or wait 36 days, the reason why sooo many people are aggrieved and make endless threads about this terrible system, is so some crafters could make abit of gold on the side?

Pure Genius, way to go Anet, sacrifice the needs of the many for the small few.* If you look on TP right now, there are only 30-50 pieces of the buyable components available. That is, at most, 50 crafters x number of components available. Which, at most, is a few hundred persons. *

GW2 was bought by millions and is currently played by atleast 200k casually or otherwise. So, you mean to tell me you agree with the justification of sacrificing the needs of hundreds of thousands of people, just so a very small percentage could make some gold on the side?

I
Can
Only
Laugh

You don’t know how the TP works do you? I mean, i know you came back and all, and I doubt wanze is still up, but he could reallllly school you on this. Which is why its laughable XD.

As for your numbers….source? Cause, only anet knows those numbers properly. Anything else is just some website giving a guess at best for population.

So the only thing you are being denied is level 25+ fractals. in which then you need to infuse ascended gear with agony resist infusions anyway, which you get by running lower level fractals, or buying from the TP.

Wait, are you serious? Did you read my other replies are do you just want to come in here, offer no real contribution and try to derail the discussion by ad hominem? Ofcourse I have no exact numbers, I made no claim to, there is no need to. The numbers were estimated conservatively to make my point. Which was the number of crafters who profit from this system is laughable compared to the number of players directly affected by it. If you disagree please state your point as I would be happy to read it.

Well, you made a statement of how many players play the game now compared to how many bought it. If you have no exact numbers, weren’t going to claim it, and found no need to, then why bother stating it? But then you say there is no need to, yet then say its to make your point…? K…

And as for the tp, when you did your quick little “search” for the purchasable parts, you got a snapshot of one point in time of those listings. you can check out gw2spidy or other gw2 TP websites to see how the market and prices fluctuate daily, and how many transactions are bought and sold. Just by doing a quick search cannot tell you this.

Then you have to take into account the people who are actually hoarding the materials to wait for the best time to sell, which is usually during peak hours, or waiting for the average price to go up. Wanze tried to do this with his “control the market experiment” knowing full well there are people who use bank space to hold on to multiple stacks of items, waiting for the time they feel is right to sell such items. So while you “calculated” out that only a “few” crafters are benefiting from this, again, you are wrong. I can bet there are TP traders who are holding on to pieces to sell, they are just smart enough to know that if you flood the market, you drive the price down. The most recent development of this was with precursors once they announced precursor crafting. Suddenly, the high costing precursors began to plummet on the market, because it began to flood from people selling from their banks.

So again, you cant even conservatively estimate how much of one ascended item is in the game just by looking at the tp briefly.

MrHeartless.9164:

Samhaim.8956:

MrHeartless.9164:

Serophous.9085:

ESPECIALLY since ascended armor doesn’t even offer a significant stat increase over exotic.

so….if its not worth it…don’t do it….? You don’t NEED ascended unless you are planning high level fractals, you don’t need it…at all….

Heck, even after its release, I STILL don’t have a full set of ascended yet. I could, but I don’t NEED IT. I just craft a piece when the mats come to me. I’m still sitting on the ascended chest from my luminescent gear collection, not even sure what piece I want.

Its inherently limiting, its the underlying issue of not being able to reap rewards of my work and the accomplishment in doing so that is bugging. Its the arbitrary implementation of the system to begin. It does not NEED to be in the game, yet it is and it is directly affecting my enjoyment as well as progress in the game.

Just because you don’t understand why they implemented it it doesn’t mean it was arbitrary, so i’ll explain it to you:
Anet wanted crafters to be able to make money out of the new crafting levels, so they made it so that if you wanted to craft your ascended set as fast as possible you would have to buy the crafted pieces from, (you guessed it!), crafters. If they didn’t they the price for the ascended mats would be basically the price of base mats+1s and thatd be it, nothing to be gained for crafters. So with this system in place, crafters make money by selling their time-gated product to people that are impatient and can’t wait around to craft it themselves, and there’s no harm done to the people that are impatient since they’d be farming the money for it anyways.

So, you’re trying to tell me, that the reason I can’t utilise my 500 in armorsmithing to the fullest extent, the reason I have to farm gold or buy gems and sell them for gold or wait 36 days, the reason why sooo many people are aggrieved and make endless threads about this terrible system, is so some crafters could make abit of gold on the side?

Pure Genius, way to go Anet, sacrifice the needs of the many for the small few.* If you look on TP right now, there are only 30-50 pieces of the buyable components available. That is, at most, 50 crafters x number of components available. Which, at most, is a few hundred persons. *

GW2 was bought by millions and is currently played by atleast 200k casually or otherwise. So, you mean to tell me you agree with the justification of sacrificing the needs of hundreds of thousands of people, just so a very small percentage could make some gold on the side?

I
Can
Only
Laugh

You don’t know how the TP works do you? I mean, i know you came back and all, and I doubt wanze is still up, but he could reallllly school you on this. Which is why its laughable XD.

As for your numbers….source? Cause, only anet knows those numbers properly. Anything else is just some website giving a guess at best for population.

So the only thing you are being denied is level 25+ fractals. in which then you need to infuse ascended gear with agony resist infusions anyway, which you get by running lower level fractals, or buying from the TP.

ESPECIALLY since ascended armor doesn’t even offer a significant stat increase over exotic.

so….if its not worth it…don’t do it….? You don’t NEED ascended unless you are planning high level fractals, you don’t need it…at all….

Heck, even after its release, I STILL don’t have a full set of ascended yet. I could, but I don’t NEED IT. I just craft a piece when the mats come to me. I’m still sitting on the ascended chest from my luminescent gear collection, not even sure what piece I want.

When I log on:
“What do I want to do today?”
Silverwastes – is any requirement stopping me? No…
A dungeon – is any requirement stopping me? Well, finding people but no….
WvW – welp, nothing holding me back but a quick trait swapping…
Spvp – eh, if I’m in the mood, nothing stopping me but my own skill…
Fractals – well, I dont care about high end, i’m content on my position now so no…

Its like I can log in, and be ready to play without any restrictions because I didn’t meet some other requirement to do something….

can’t resist…must…post…this…

Inside Anet’s Mind

Devata.6589:

snip for length
Of course you can do all the things I just mentioned in different difficulties so some will be fast and easy to get while other will take longer and are harder to get. Some might even be upgrades… Get a silver hammer-skin for doing dungeon x, do the harder part and it will have a gold handle and do the hardest difficulty and it will have some glow over it.

If you put all these skins, animations, mini, mounts (glider skins) and toys behind that sort of content it should easily keep people busy until the next expansion that adds new content with new rewards behind it.

The rng you put in there might still feel like a little farm but at least it’s not all gold, gold gold. No, now you can directly work towards the goal / skin / cosmetic.

I get it now. See, you aren’t against grind itself. You’re against grinding for GOLD. I mean, the second you put in RNG, you are introducing grind. And you can say “oh, if would be good RNG”, well, we can look at the people who still haven’t gotten all their coats yet in silverwastes event. I mean, people posted how they ran it 70 times and still either no coat or not all three. Hence, a grind.

But its better to pick at your “suggestions”. They’re more fun at how grindy they can be!
A ‘quest’ chain? Hm, fun the first time around, maybe. Fun being the keyword as others won’t find it fun, but annoying, long, and maybe boring. Won’t know, depends on the person. But hey, once and its done right? No point in doing it again once you got your item. It’ll unlock the skin, so no point in doing it a second time on an alt, or even on a main. And if you give different choices at the end for either armor type or different weapons, welp, then its grind.

Oh crafting! Everyone loves crafting! Going out to grind for all those materials or grind for armors to salvage. Boy, I can’t wait to see how that would go! Grind grind grind grind….and hunting down the recipe’s and ingredients? You mean going and finding one special event where there would be a whole crowd of people around, and you having to hope you deal enough dmg before the target dies? Or going about and killing random things to hope it drops. Wow, first way will seem like SUCH fun, and the other is….grind grind grind grind….

Rewards for dungeons? Again, vague here, but I assume you mean getting tokens which means…hey everybody! Grind grind grind grind….
Drop from boss chest rng? Grind grind grind grind….
Do it once and done forever? Wait, why would i run it again? Fun? Fun is relative so….

RNG…reasonable….LOL! Grind grind grind grind….

Hard content like Liadri? Well then, lets see…when I did the achieves and the mini, one I got them, I was done with her, never again. No point. Throwing my face against her hoping against the rng spawns time and time again was enough for me. Did it so many times the fun was gone. And though yay at the satisfaction of winning, when I realized how much money I had lost spending tickets when I could’ve been just killing the first boss with all the disabilities and getting better loot and gold. I mean, sure, they could’ve given something other than a mini and a title, maybe a rare weapon skin, but that guy who grinded the first boss seemed to get a better deal. Make the reward repeatable? Hold on a sec while I….grind grind grind grind….

You say farm, others say grind. Actually, just grind!

And run around holding down ctrl (or whatever keybind you made it), looking for a rare spawn? I can see it now…“I’ve been running for hours and can’t find it!” “Hey guys, the rare spawn is located at X!” And everyone runs to it to grab it because of share looting, so yay I got a rare spawn that 100 other people stood around getting too! And if you think making it for just one person, then you just introduced a new type of grind….the Running Simulator Grind!

And do you really, REALLY believe people would be content if stuff was put behind all of this? Did you ignore the posts when Teq was first introduced and three headed worm? People complained it was too hard at the time, until servers, some on day one, began to beat it, and now look at it. They’re farmed. A grind….

Even the Marionette boss, which was a good boss fight, was hard at first, then became easy and farmed even with the two weeks or so (can’t remember correctly), and it became a grind….

No, hard stuff doesn’t remain hard in games nowadays because there are guides, and videos all over the internet telling people tips, tricks, and shortcuts. This is while content is consumed so fast nowadays.

But, that doesn’t matter does it? You’re ok with grind, just long as its not towards gold apparently.

Rezzet.3614:

Everyone is failing to see the real issue tho

forcing “optional” grinds on players to extend the game’s life then do the same with the expansion is simply not enough

what reason would i have to not simply use my money wisely and go play whatever new better better optimized game comes out next example: Black desert

as all this game is offering is time gate after time gate what is this facebook? we gonna play farmville in 3d?

case in point games arent meant to be a chore

i hate pvp and i ve found myself doing pvp for 6-8 hours a day at times because i ve done everything else to boredom and have been cursed like many others unable to get a precursor so i guess i ll need to grind for when the expansion comes out i craft the precursor then grind even more to craft the items for the legendary and then craft 1 legendary and i need 2-3 per character so multiply that by 7 combine that with the grind for ascended gear and multiply it by 8 and there you see why grinding is ridiculous to some

Wow….this starting already?

Community: “We want a way to get precursors!”
Anet: “Here ya go. Its in the mastery system now for crafting!”
And now people complaining about getting it….but not exactly how they want it….

tigirius.9014:

I agree we shouldn’t give them an excuse to close anything. Grind is still a grind. None of the arguments that are against it being called a grind are relevant. This game was not supposed to have it. It’s not healthy to have a grind and it needs to be removed from the title. I think now that they have plenty of money to work with, several things including a grind for ascended could easily be adjusted in no time prior to the launch of HoT and it would be an amazing gesture to the community on the part of Arenanet if they did do that. (much like the removal of the requirement of WvW from the world completion Achievement was received by those of us in the PVE community).

Grind whether people perceive it as optional or not is the mmo equivalent of adding shaky cam to a movie fight scene because the acting is so bad that the actors can’t carry out a believeable fight scene and the directors are trying to hide it. It’s not a valid substitute for content in any shape or form in any game genre and it shouldn’t allowed to continue. That’s the point people are missing.

I for one am not complaining about the grind because it’s simply a matter of my getting gear fast I’m complaining about it because it’s almost always used as a “busy work” alternative to try to tide the players over until the real content is released and it’s never ever a good thing for the games that suffer from the grind.

One person finds something in the game Grindy. A second person does not. Is there, or isnt there grind?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Serophous.9085:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

maddoctor.2738:

On another note, Guild Wars 1 had some of the worst “optional” grind ever seen in an MMORPG game.

Second worst I’ve seen. Also wasn’t an MMORPG.

You know what even funnier? Those posts complaining about the grind still exist on forums till this day. You can go back and find complaints about gw1, its just a bit harder cause its spread out, not centralized like gw2 is with official forum run by anet itself.

But hey, people love to wear those rose-tinted glasses

I especially love the exact same conversation about how the grind wasn’t optional, because we say so.

. . . because everyone needs top rank Norn/Asura/Sunspear reputation.

You forgot the human one

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

maddoctor.2738:

On another note, Guild Wars 1 had some of the worst “optional” grind ever seen in an MMORPG game.

Second worst I’ve seen. Also wasn’t an MMORPG.

You know what even funnier? Those posts complaining about the grind still exist on forums till this day. You can go back and find complaints about gw1, its just a bit harder cause its spread out, not centralized like gw2 is with official forum run by anet itself.

But hey, people love to wear those rose-tinted glasses

Devata.6589:

Test.8734:

Devata.6589:

The thread can be better be used to talk about how it can be approved. How to move in the better direction again for the HoT release, because if it doesn’t imho that is going to be a big problem for Anet. People will not keep coming back if they keep being disappointed.

Devata, your intentions are noble, but I don’t think your idea of reducing grind and increasing fun will happen.

ArenaNet has no reason to make it happen.

“ArenaNet has no reason to make it happen. ”

I do not think that is true. Anet has been losing income ever since release. Now we don’t know the number of players but likely if they get less and less income they are likely also losing players.

What would be a reason to leave a game? Most likely reason is because your done with it and it’s getting boring. Well one reason why people might start finding a game boring is because it’s all grind, grind and more grind. Eventually people will get tired of that. Some sooner then later.

So to keep the game strong for years to come they even have to change it. If they don’t, all the people who left because the game became boring for them because of the grind, and who will come back for HoT, they will leave again. And this time they will not return for the second expansion. That is why Anet will have to do something about it if they really want to keep this game going strong for years. Something you would think Anet wants. Ncsoft on the other hand can simply release another title as people remember GW2 and Anet, not Ncsoft.

“Of course, making it with great care would lead to more people liking it and less people not liking it, but it would still not be a 100% success.” Sure, but the current way is also not a 100% success. That will never be the case. But at least they have a bigger player-base they can keep selling expansions to. It also means a bigger name so more options for merchandise and so on.

“This is what they did with the original Guild Wars, mostly in the beginning of the game. ” And what made them so successful that they could build GW2, and had made such a big name for themselves that GW2 was the best selling MMO at the time.

So the reason anet lost income was because of grind….

Can I have your contact’s info inside the HQ of Arenanet so I too can get a quote of this stunning revelation?

Sigh….just let it go already.

You can never remove grind from a game. Its impossible. Why? Because of the players themselves.

All the last thread proved was that there are too many different variations to the definition of grind now, and asking a game developer to try and avoid each one is impossible. The second new content no longer feels new, it is now a grind to some.

Didn’t get what you wanted the first time you killed a boss or ran a dungeon? Well, do it again, thus grind. Need two items from a dungeon? Grind since you already have to run it more than once.

Oh, but the dungeon is considered fun? Fun is relative. What’s fun for one person, isn’t fun for another. So while one may not find it a grind, another will. Thus, its a grind.

In the end, players are going to have to take some responsibility on grind and learn to either throttle back their wants, or not make something a grind and learn to do other activities so things stop feeling like a grind because they got played out. Once something stops being fun, it becomes a grind. Which, once again, fun is based on the player.

But lets face it, its human nature to do things as efficient and fast to get something done, even if its boring, hence why devs can’t keep up with supplying new content constantly.

What can you do to reduce grind? There’s too many unknown and varying information to really do much. So far, the only solution anet was able to come up with was to try and reward more gold into the system to allow purchase. Yes, it doesn’t seem like much with no armor repairs and stuff, but it is still an injection of gold into the game. And lets put it this way, getting gold now, is WAAAY easier than it was in the beginning.

As for trying to “reduce” grind, again, you are asking for the near impossible.
1. Do the players find this “fun”? – Again, a subjective statement. The devs may find it fun, players may not. Or some players may, others may not. Thus, if there is an item there a player who hates the activity wants, it could be called a grind for them. In which you would say “well then, place it somewhere else attainable”, in which case the loop repeats with the addition of “is it easier than method one, in which case method one will be ignored.” as well as “what if the player still doesn’t like the activity?”. Thus, the method of “allow it to be sold on TP then for gold.” In which case, gold can be earned almost everywhere.

2. How many attempts before its called a grind? – Again, i bet you can find one person that says after one or two tries, its a grind to them. Others may not find it a grind till after 20, and so many different variations. How do you decide this? Add tokens? Make it that you can’t get duplicates from boss drops? By limiting the amount of attempts till “done.” how does that effect the player population in running the activity? If a majority get finished, how is it fair to new players trying to find more people to do it themselves? And before you say “fun”, again, relative.

3. How do to place a value on players time? – Lets face it, everyone will have different values. i could consider 30min of my time more important than 30min of yours. So if something takes more than 30min, its a grind to me, and i should be rewarded better for my time spent. So once agian, how do you figure this with so many different players? And if you say “fun”, once again, repeat after me “relevant”.

There are probably many more I didnt think of that goes into the process. Again, a company can try to curve it the best they can, but grind is going to be in the game no matter what, and its mostly because they can’t control exactly when a player starts feeling when something is a grind.

So, once someone finds a way to judge a person’s limits to what grind is on an individual basis, then ways to get rid of grind all together can come about.

Its leeching, and I hope anet is taking action against these people as they did to the leechers in dry top who stood at the crystal race event.

Leeching is considered an exploit:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit

[Quote][i]ArenaNet defines an exploit as any deliberate action that provides an unfair advantage over other players or otherwise hurts the game, community, or economy; it does not matter whether the exploit is a hack or makes use of a mechanic (bugged or otherwise) within the game.[/I][/quote]

So the problem really is how to report them. Which all I can think of atm is nothing.
So, is someone using the autocast to get free credit in an event while standing still? Exploit. Taking in one spot, doing nothing but causing an upscale to the event making it harder for other legit players? Exploit.

Mini John Smith. So I have insider trading info when standing beside a trade post NPC.

I asked this same thing awhile ago in the Questions about economy thread. Sadly, john may have missed it or bypassed it, but other players answered.

Link

It couldn’t hurt to ask again I suppose. But in the end, i think it could fluctuate the economy a too much without some safeguards (ie dungeon runes not possible to forge, etc).

Galen Grey.4709:

There are really many issues why people feel CDI had no impact.

I think the main issue is people who arent into development of complex software dont appreciate how much time you need to steer the ship so to speak. People discussed things in the CDI and expected changes in a few weeks which is unrealistic. First an idea has to be analysed and decided if it fits in the game, this take a couple of weeks as different stake holders all weigh in on what it means for their respective areas. IF they decide to go ahead without making any changes to the idea what is without a doubt a high level overview needs to be broken down into workable chunks.

Ex: Lets do GvG where 8 people from one guild fight 8 people from another guild go on head on deadmatch on existant sPvP maps. Seems straight forward enough right? could that be done in a couple of weeks? no. There are a ton of changes that need to happen there
- team code reworked to support 8 instead of 5
- sPvP code changed to allow group based on guild
- sPvP code changed to implement new victory conditions
- create new code for scoring at guild level
- create new interface (potentially more then 1)
- create code to handle grouping at guild level
- most likely more things i am not thinking off.

Each of these needs to be broken down even further to specific tasks.
like say team code reworked to support 8 instead of 5 involved work by multiple teams from actually changing the code that handles group to changing the UI to allow placement of 8 characters instead of 5 to potentially the need to create new assets to do it (new icons etc..)

Now naturally team members have stuff to do as well. Being we know they use scrum, scrum typically works on a concept of sprints which are essentially 2 week work schedules. At any one time there may be a number of sprints which are already scheduled. For example the living world team worked on a 4 month rotation which means that its very likely at the start of the project they’d have 8 sprints that are already preplanned. Not everything makes it into a sprint and pending tasks are stored in what is called a backlog. these new tasks will be placed there, backlog items have a priority and there is no guarantee that next in line it will be these new tasks meaning that its nearly to be expected that items that require no change and that everyone agree should be dont might still take over 6 months before work is even started on them. You might be surprised by how long this prioritization process can delay things. Actually no one needs to be surprised just look at the FOV slider, thats something thats been discussed since launch and took nearly 3 years to make it in game!

Next thing to consider is there is a good chance things will not be implemented 100% as discussed. This in turn might result CDI discussed item to get stuck at design for longer adding to the overall time.

another potentially issue is some of the stuff discussed might be decided by designers to be at odds with the game overall design. In that case instead of adopting the whole thing, Anet might design to take elements of what people discuss and in corporate them in a different way. Like say what if they decided raiding doesnt work for Gw2 but instead got some of the ideas that discussed how raids should work and implemented them for world bosses?

There are really many reasons why people may feel the CDI didnt get much impact but that doesnt necessarily means its the case. There is a good chance even the stuff they decided to go for might still be in the process of being developed. Development is a long term process not something thats accomplished in the short term.

Sadly, this post will be mostly ignored or not understood. Heck, I’ve been in a few betas where a dev will say something is a cool idea, only to come back and tell us that it wasn’t possible at this time (due to either time, or technology (either restraints so needing a work around, or just not possible)).

Speaking of which, how do we know beta’s matter? What if what players suggest there are already being worked on. What if betas are just people testing for bugs and not looking for suggestions on how to improve a system or QoL? I mean, people might as well never suggest anything ever again because it is already in development already, right?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Serophous.9085:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

cesmode.4257:

Many.8419:

This looks more like his personal feelings to the guy than professional list of CDI “achievements”. HoT must have been in production long before some of those discussions started and while it looks massive I don’t feel like it changed the direction of the game, only took away mods work to group players opinions in one place.

I can see you like the guy, dunno why but it’s not my problem. I just don’t feel like those long threads made anything important. We have no idea which of the implementions were made because of cdi and which were planned long ago and only by chance got in line with players’ ideas.

I’ll echo the general idea of your post in that Arenanet must have had a lot of these ideas to begin with…when we voiced our suggestions via CDI, they put them into production.

And that isn’t even a positive thing to hang your hat on.

Example: The wardrobe. I called for this within month one of release as did other folks. It took 2+ years and a CDI to get this put in? Or the alternative (which is worse)…Arenanet didn’t have the creativity to think of this on their own and we had to do it for them?

I disagree with you saying that Mr. Whiteside’s CDIs were a waste. I think it gave us an outlet if we were mature enough. Whether or not any of it was used as an original thought, like you said, remains to be seen.

From a cynical point of view, the topics from the CDI were controlled and brought up by ArenaNet. So basically, before releasing a feature like the wardrobe in couple of months, they will talk about it in the CDI for a couple of months, so when it was finally released — lo and behold — the CDI works and Chris looks good. But the topics that was brought up by the players (i.e. Pet AI) was never come to fruition because it’s not something that they have in development or ready for release. I mean Pet AI was an issue even before the game’s release, it was the cause to delay the Ranger at the time.

As of right now, the Hero Panel still not defaulting to Equipment tab ever since the wardrobe was implemented…so another 2yrs and a CDI before that is fixed?

Aw man….he got anet pegged now! Ohhhhh….!

The only thing that could counter this would be if there was a CDI mentioning how to choose topics for CDIs! That could seriously throw a wrench in the system!

Wait….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Process-Evolution-2/first

Note:
“The focus of the conversation of this topic is therefore on how to improve the CDI and is not about specific areas of the game or features.”

Thanks.

double note:
1: We need to keep thread and post sizes more manageable. Should we put a limit on the word length of posts?
2: How are we going to chose topics moving forward, for example, by votes or by Anet choosing them etc?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

cesmode.4257:

Many.8419:

This looks more like his personal feelings to the guy than professional list of CDI “achievements”. HoT must have been in production long before some of those discussions started and while it looks massive I don’t feel like it changed the direction of the game, only took away mods work to group players opinions in one place.

I can see you like the guy, dunno why but it’s not my problem. I just don’t feel like those long threads made anything important. We have no idea which of the implementions were made because of cdi and which were planned long ago and only by chance got in line with players’ ideas.

I’ll echo the general idea of your post in that Arenanet must have had a lot of these ideas to begin with…when we voiced our suggestions via CDI, they put them into production.

And that isn’t even a positive thing to hang your hat on.

Example: The wardrobe. I called for this within month one of release as did other folks. It took 2+ years and a CDI to get this put in? Or the alternative (which is worse)…Arenanet didn’t have the creativity to think of this on their own and we had to do it for them?

I disagree with you saying that Mr. Whiteside’s CDIs were a waste. I think it gave us an outlet if we were mature enough. Whether or not any of it was used as an original thought, like you said, remains to be seen.

From a cynical point of view, the topics from the CDI were controlled and brought up by ArenaNet. So basically, before releasing a feature like the wardrobe in couple of months, they will talk about it in the CDI for a couple of months, so when it was finally released — lo and behold — the CDI works and Chris looks good. But the topics that was brought up by the players (i.e. Pet AI) was never come to fruition because it’s not something that they have in development or ready for release. I mean Pet AI was an issue even before the game’s release, it was the cause to delay the Ranger at the time.

As of right now, the Hero Panel still not defaulting to Equipment tab ever since the wardrobe was implemented…so another 2yrs and a CDI before that is fixed?

Aw man….he got anet pegged now! Ohhhhh….!

The only thing that could counter this would be if there was a CDI mentioning how to choose topics for CDIs! That could seriously throw a wrench in the system!

Wait….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Process-Evolution-2/first

There go the CDIs….

(insert Darth Vadar “Nooooooo” here)

Reading a thread that is going nowhere:

Sigh….this thread again….
Hold on, I got something that should sum it up for anyone new….