Guild Wars 2

Zenith.7301:

tobascodagama.2961:

Zenith.7301:

It’s about time the mesmer gets some balancing for the PvE side instead of being constantly nerfed due to pvp.

This isn’t about PvE balance vs. PvP balance. This is about the fact that a 2s Float is kittening useless in PvE, while 10s of group Quickness is extremely powerful. There is no iteration of Gravity Well that Pulls and Floats stuff and is also useful in PvE, because all PvE encounters to date explicitly invalidate CC application as a useful thing to do. Even if Breakbars change that, applying one big CC on a 3s delay and a 90s cooldown is still completely kittening worthless.

Windwalker.7421:

I can live with a very short CD on IR, I’m talking 2s max, but I also see some good points made in favor of the 2-illusion rule. Still, I have to say I believe the 2-illusion rule is unintuitive, unreliable, and basically strongly favors DE builds whom can more easily get those 2 illusions in order to reliably proc IR.

The “Keep It Simple Stupid” principle has got me thinking that a 2s ICD is the better route. It fixes the problem we’re trying to address in a simple and intuitive way. It prevents shatter spamming while providing reliable & intuitive clone production.

This is my feeling as well. A clone-generation trait that only generates clones if you already have clones just doesn’t make sense.

Which is why maybe Well of Gravity needed a PvE/PvP split. Make it a 30 sec cd, with nice exploding damage, and good CC break count for the break bar so basically it’s a guaranteed break.
.

It would still be useless… you have a trait that give you a stun on daze and then you have a weapon that stuns twice. So i think we have the breakbar utility covered lol.

TW is still going to be the better choice.
Slow on enemy encounters with allied quickness is still a much better choice.

Alacrity
The last few changes are related to alacrity. We felt that as it was currently, alacrity wasn’t hitting the right level of impact due to how easy it was to get from the minor trait and how little you could share it with allies. These changes are intended to try and improve how alacrity feels to interact with though traits and skills.

• Flow of Time: Reduced alacrity per shattered illusion from 1s to 0.75s
• Improved Alacrity: Increased alacrity duration bonus from 33% to 50%.
• All’s Well that Ends Well: Changed functionality. This trait now grants 2s of alacrity to allies standing within the well when the well ends.

I am not a fan of this change seeing as how the iAvenger is slow.
But what can we do.
Though if you plan on limiting self alacrity to mesmer’s so much why even have it?

Illusionary Reversion: Updated functionality. You must shatter at least 2 illusions in order to generate a clone from this trait. (You do not count as an illusion towards this total.)

• Yeah I know this one probably stings but when we started looking at it it was pretty silly that this trait could let you get so much power out of just using all shatter skills back to back.

All this does is force people to want to stay with DE.
What’s the point of this change.
You generate clones now at about the same speed with Deceptive Evasion.
All this does is guarantee that people that want to play chronomancer with shatters are going to be shoehorned into dueling.
Also.
To generate a clone you need two clones?!
I could understand if this was given a small ICD of like 3 seconds to prevent shatter spam.
But really all you have done is make this trait look less desirable to the other choices.

So Congrat’s.
You will still have the problem of people shattering back to back.

Getting tired of seeing every other class get small changes here and there and mesmer gets every nerf all at once.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Hey Everyone,

All of you discussing play-styles and such with the new upcoming changes, here’s some ranked game-play and duels I had over the most recent beta weekend. I believe this was one of the most viable builds last weekend with the issues swords had (changes appreciated)

Revenant Gameplay!

Don’t hate on my glorious editing skills :}

you and this yellow brick road >:P

RevanCorana.8942:

lmao let’s say ele is 10% less durable than bunker guard ok? (which is not true, a bunker guard that used his cooldown just die in seconds an ele can kite away and regen)
Still the eles deal 200-300% more damage and ,
AND they have the mobility to disengage and decap.
Explain to me why elementalist would not need heavy nerf granted it is heavily op?

Doesn’t matter what you say.
I am still trying to wrap my head around the build for a mesmer and a thief that can somehow hardcounter an ele. So far, the only class I have seen that can actually hard counter and contest a point with an ele is a necro.

The ele’s are going to be here to defend there class as much as possible.
But what needs to be nerfed has been said and beaten dead.
Sustain and burning for an ele need to be toned down. Unfortunately given anet’s track record the ele will be like this for 6 months.

I have a story for you.

Once upon a time.
The mesmer’s got buffed.
People figured out what needed to be nerfed and what could be done to make the build less of an issue.

Most mesmer’s agreed that the issue came from two trait’s and suggestions were made to make those traits less of an imbalance.

The devs.
Gathering feedback from the community.
IGNORED THEM.

They nerfed a trait that worked only for one build.
They nerfed an entire utility set that did nothing for the “OP” build people cried about.
They nerfed a weapon that made the dps a tad bit lower.
They nerfed trait’s that did nothing but help mesmer support.

They ignored the trait suggestions that would have brought one very powerful build inline and instead gutted another.
The devs don’t listen.
You will be nerfed in area’s that make no sense.
You will have buffs taken away from you for no reason.
And you will have a random build no on really uses destroyed.
That’s how Anet balances

/saltysaltsalt

Mbelch.9028:

. I’ve always held that celestial amulets should be removed from the game.

Good luck everybody.

/thread

style.6173:

When is a patch coming to fix D/D ele? Another release and still nothing. What is taking so long?

6months

Firelysm.4967:

Evasive Mirror

Gain a barrier that reflects projectiles after a successful evasion.
Reflects incoming projectiles. Mirror (1½s): Reflects incoming projectiles.

What does this mean, on dodge they have 1.5sec reflection and cooldown, so every time they dodge they reflect no matter what.

Compared to ranger trait Primeval Reflex, in order to get 5 seconds vigor, we need to evade, and we have 8 seconds of internal cooldown.

Either ranger needs removal of internal cooldown or mesmer needs 3-4 seconds internal cooldown. While we all know that endurance got drastically nerfed!

It does have a cooldown.
Endurance isn’t going to magically fill itself.
And like you said. Endurance was drastically nerfed.

Though funny thing. Are people just picking random traits now to complain about.

stof.9341:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Those SEA players have a good point though. The player population has attritioned to a point where there’s not enough in their timezone to support more than one tier. They simply can’t spread out and still have fun.

I think their best solution is just to mass-transfer down to T8 where there’s likely enough room for them all. Then they just have to make sure all the servers in T8 stay T8 — not too hard since T1 players have plenty of experience with that.

In my opinion, a lot of what’s wrong with WvW comes from catering to SEA players and the problem of coverage wars they pose :o

ANet should create a special group of WvW servers for them that only open in their timezone, and change the others to only open in primetime.

…..No.

You want to lock WvW for everyone until a specific time?

Are you serious?
You aren’t serious.

A better solution would be to give the most points during the server’s designated timezone. In otherwords, For NA servers during the designated NA prime. The point gain would be set at 100%, during other timezones point gain would be 25%

Tala.7638:

If people burn you, you must stop, drop and roll.

Didn’t we learn that in kindergarten? Come on now, build for some cleanse…get with the times man…

That doesn’t work when the flames are caused by magic :P

No.
Go play the other games with mounts if you need them that badly.
There is no reason for them to be in GW2

DaShi.1368:

I don’t understand why some people think mesmers should have to negotiate with them at all. These suggestions are not only terrible, but they are extremely unfair.

That’s basically the PvP community. Nerf everything I can’t deal with. Even when in the most recent WTS mesmers didn’t make the impact an ele, guardian, or necro made.
Nah this is the same crap that rangers went through when they got buffs.
Prepare for the crusade

Spleen.7836:

Solori.6025:

How about this trade.
Give mesmers main hand pistol and the off hand shield.
Then you can remove the F5

You would have to replace one F ability with continuum + replace other F abilities with something else to get on part with other professions then

Oh yeah true very true.

F1 inflicts double damage but increases the CD by 33%
F2 inflicts slow
F3 also immobilizes
F4 grants distortion and a displacement effect at you and clones shatter locations (240r)
:P

How about this trade.
Give mesmers main hand pistol and the off hand shield.
Then you can remove the F5

From the recent WTS . The Mets has shown itself to be all about mobility, and sustainability. Reaper has great sustainability as well as cele. People complaining about mesmers at this point are showing there inexperience when dealing with the class. Much like how it was when rangers got changed

I disagree.
1v1,2v2, and 3v3 are all doable in custom arena games.

No what they need to do is add different types of game modes for team play revolving around 5v5.

P.S.
With the new guild halls you can also organize your 1 v 1’s there.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

Mesmers havent been meta because no1 outside helseth’s & frost’s teams actually put effort into playing with it (high risk = high reward)

Having 2 eles and/or shoutbow was more rewarding for much less effort.
Why go high reward = high risk if you can low risk = high reward?

Mesmer was always viable. It had a higher skill level to be viable + needed top partners to make it work, which is a difference.

Teams had to make a comp around mesmer/thief, which costs loads of time and effort.
As we know, lots of teams on EU and NA actually split after a while. Which is why it wasnt worth it going for a mesmer.

Not being in most teams comps doesnt mean its not viable.

Frost and Helseth actually debunked your theory.

To add to this terror..
Here is a history of mesmer that everyone seems to forget.

Fay.2357:

Mesmers started dropping out of the meta at the same time warrior was buffed. Recall that this was when they nerfed mainhand sword into the ground, making effective play much harder. It came back a little with double ranged shatter builds, but by the time those got much use, the condition meta hit and dunked mesmer out of the meta hard.

After the condition meta started getting toned down was when s/d thief skyrocketed in popularity, and forced mesmers to remain out of the meta for this period. Shortly thereafter, the celestial meta hit, and mesmers have remained out of the meta for the remainder of it.

At all points, a couple people still played mesmer. This, however, is anything but evidence of mesmer’s meta status. Even the very best mesmers in the game spent record time in downstate, and were ultimately only on the teams because of portal, and because their personal skill allowed them to bludgeon a non-viable class into use.

Lastly, as my original point that I made was about, that was foolishly disputed, at every single point in the history of play, the meta focused towards builds that were low effort, low risk, and high reward.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Solori.6025:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

Mesmers havent been meta because no1 outside helseth’s & frost’s teams actually put effort into playing with it (high risk = high reward)

They haven’t been meta because the gain that you got from playing a mesmer was not as beneficial as the gain you got from playing something else.
Like thief.

Having 2 eles and/or shoutbow was more rewarding for much less effort.
Why go high reward = high risk if you can low risk = high reward?

Very true indeed. It’s why mesmer wasn’t meta for a long time.

Mesmer was always viable. It had a higher skill level to be viable + needed top partners to make it work, which is a difference.

There is a big difference when you need another player to make your class viable.

Teams had to make a comp around mesmer/thief, which costs loads of time and effort.
As we know, lots of teams on EU and NA actually split after a while. Which is why it wasnt worth it going for a mesmer.

No, it wasn’t worht going mesmer because the reward for the effort AND what it brought to the table was either not up to par OR completely overshadowed by other classes.

Frost and Helseth actually debunked your theory.

Fact: Helseth has said many times that “He was viable” full quote being “Mesmer’s aren’t viable, I am”.

Helseth is also the person that said that mesmer was more of a liability to his team, and that a thief would do the job of mesmer better.

He played a few games with a D/P thief on his stream and stated that if he were to learn D/P he would be more of a beneficial slot to his team.

So no, that theory of yours has been proven false, many times over.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Iavra.8510:

Oh noes, mesmer is actually viable the first time in 3 years, better get those nerfs rolling.

They were always viable, it just took more skill & team practice compared to now.

That myth has been debunked like months ago.
Mesmer’s havent been meta for some time.

If you want to win with no real effort-
Anything with high and frequent burning that can also tank and deal decent damage,

….
Guess I shoulda just said ele..

Darksteel.8412:

Iavra.8510:

This is the PvP forum and WvW damage has always been much higher. You will likely never see Helseth being able to 100-0 a competent bunker guard.

Also, you don’t just stand there and let an engi/ranger/burnguard stack yourself with conditions, too, right?

If this is about pure damage, i’ll like to redirect you to the PvE community. Those would never take a mesmer for its raw damage.

realy? a full berserker stats warrior on ascended gear full, has slightly higher stats then in pvp, there is still this ferocity difference in wvw and pvp, but that is by no means a difference of a low burst into a full 18+k burst on 3k+ armor. it was in obsi sanctum with 0 buffs. mesmer is toxic

Ummm…

The value of WvW stat’s is much higher considering Ascended Gear + the infusions+food+stones or oil+guard stacks

WvW experience and numbers are considered largely irrelevant when balancing pvp.

Velimere.7685:

Frenk.5917:

Velimere.7685:

All’s that’s left is for you to understand that Celestial Signet Necromancer is a hard counter to Celestial Dagger/Dagger Elementalist.

lolwat

Cele necro is, and I’m not even that sure about it, at most a soft counter to Cele Ele.

Nope:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/9456915

2:31:00 – watch the mid point.
And before you say that Nos had high DS, he hardly used it and could have started it with 5% with the same outcome.

Sorry, you mean the same game where OP necro was running nas’s build and was losing ground in the beginning of the game?

So.
Is tonic switching in WvW ever gonna be fixed.

To elaborate.
You can activate a tonic (something to change the character into something else, like a quaggan or sheep) then come out of it.

Doing this heals the player, and activates on switch sigils.

Been reporting this for a few days and no real response.

serenke.4806:

Necrotize.2974:

Throw in the Harmonious nerf as well and it seems like Anet wanted to try slowly toning down mesmer’s damage from several sources, just all at the same time.

Of course that is the plan. It’s quite obvious. For some reason people did not realize this would happen and they even asked for nerfs.

The problem is they nerf everything wrong.
There was no need to nerf the harmonious mantra trait especially since they fixed the mantra’s.
If they were going to nerf fire and air. Then they should have waited before they nerfed mirror blade.

It’s kinda basically what me and some other’s were afraid would happen.
We tell Anet what needs to be nerfed.
They nerf 3 other things that don’t need to be nerfed, then nerf everything else afterwards.

Why should we continue to give ground and point out broken things or things that would put mesmer in line if all anet is going to do is ignore use, nerf other things for no reason then stomp us into the ground later while not fixing bugs or buffing useless traits for 6-8 months.

….so…no nerfs to PU…no fix for the torch trait…..but we did get a nerf to mantras…

No ICD on CS either..
But at least mirror blade got nerfed right?..

I wonder what the balance team actually reads as far as our suggestions…

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

The ones I see are Ele’s and rampage warr’s..
Guess I win the anecdotal evidence contest..gimme mah prize.

Seabreeze.8437:

+100 if I could, I’ve been wanting more dreadlocks styles for soooo long! This would actually be good timing considering Heart of Thorns is going to be set in the jungle.

Like someone already stated, asura are getting really nice dreadlocks (especially the male one with the bandana), and I’d like to see humans get similar styles. I’m sick of all the lame boy band styles that are all basically the same. Let’s see some creativity, Anet!

Also, I’d like to see some dreadlocks with accessories like beads and ties for a surfer/beach look (we already have examples of that with asura and charr). Headbands look nice too. There’s just so much room for creativity that I’m surprised that humans have been getting the most boring styles with every hair kit update.

Solori.6025:

The thing I like about dreads is that a lot of the styles can be gender neutral ( so less work if they are made right)

Very much agree. Here are some examples of what I’d like to see as unisex hairstyles.

Awesome images.
I also think now would be an excellent time to see better dreads.
I also do think it’s sad we see very few creative or tribal like hairstyles

These people….make me want to go back to SBI, and do a training day with them so they can get better.

TS intrusion aside.
The caliber of skill these players showed was brand new, like I just installed the game brand new.

The ranger stood in one spot and auto attacked, the necro got condi’d down?!

The guardian isn’t running any clears?!

like WTF is this.

9 clones

No condi cleanse?

If this was supposed to highlight mesmer’s are OP, then this video is not the one you should show…ever…
It was slightly funny though..
I’ll give you that.

Junkpile.7439:

How you force your players play warrior, guardian, power necro, staff ele and so on?

by holding their loved ones hostage..

Deth.4109:

ive been hoping arena net would address the terrible dreadlock situation in the game.

yea it’s been a while, i would think someone woulda googled dreads before they even added them the first time tbh , but owell..better late than never

ReV.6097:

Maybe I can make a Lister character from Red Dwarf if they ever give us some decent dreads for once. x_x
+1 to the thread

Ooooh that would be awesome.

Changed the title so it hopefully gets sent to the right people

IGN: Soloris
play: WvW/PvP/PvE
Server: FA
Role: Scholar
Time: CST

I need some dueling buddies
I also want to see if Fay is an asuran :P

Situations.2416:

This statement is so silly, anything in top tier is high risk, high effort. Shatter did fine pre-patch and it’s overkill post-patch. It’s really just as simple as that.

Shatter was overshadowed by other classes who could burst faster and easier.
Actually shatter was overshadowed by a lot of classes.

The mesmer in it’s current state is more powerful than almost all of these classes have ever been aside from ele and thief. The class ‘warrior’ you’re referring to being op for years? You remember warrior being absolute kitten for almost a year and a half then it got buffs? Nice analysis of warrior by you there. Shatter dominated this meta also while warrior was kitten.

…I think you need to actually watch what the pvp meta was.
Warrior was among the 2nd most frequent classes picked for all pvp teams.
Warrior , during the time it got buffed, was dominant, and when it was nerfed it was still an invaluable part of most pvp teams.
So I think Fays analysis was pretty correct.

The only time shatter dominated anything was when the might on shatter trait was bugged, and that was nerfed almost instantly.

Shatter then got killed out when condi meta occurred (spirit rangers and condi necros and condi engis), for only 4-5 months condition meta was around then you started to see shatter coming back after those meta builds were nerfed because you could optimally run around a set of team comps (Helseth for example) and it was shifting to celestial meta/dmg orientated meta which shatter was necessary for the boon stripping on celestial classes.

I love people that pull up helseth, totally forgetting to mention when he said mesmer’s arent viable, he was ( is). He outplayed people, he outmanuevered people.
But even he admitted that mesmer was weak when compared to thief.

The only reason you don’t see AS many mesmers was because thieves, who have always been a natural counter to mesmers and even then mes was brought into teams for obvious bunker killing reasons.

You didn’t see AS many mesmer’s because the ability and mobility of a thief made them pratically unviable when measured up against them.
A thief roamed better, was more mobile, could steal boons, could CC, blind,stealth, and burst.
A thief was good at team disruption and could very easily turn the tide of team battles.
And before you try and say " nah ah" the top tier mesmer you picked to name has even said as much.

Shatter has been around for alot of metas, whether you think so or not and used extensively throughout those metas by top teams, this both ranges between Europe and NA teams.

I don’t follow EU, but in NA shatter was most definitaly not in most meta’s for reasons I mentioned above.

This idea of ‘shatter being weak for 2 years and every other class is op , so now we deserve to be op’ mentality doesn’t cut it, it’s not true and is also the epitome of why balancing is simply just bad in this game.

Sorry
But the entire roster or teams in ToL and WTS proves this wrong.
The frequency mesmer was taken was low for a reason.

I don’t know… I main ele and play mesmer alot though, .

That partially explains a lot.
You don’t know.
You main an Ele which right now
IS the god tier of spvp.

If you want a reliable counter to any class right now, pick an ele, get celestial amulet.
laugh at people as you get 800-1000 burn ticks for free. While still doing damage and tanking.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Solori.6025:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Careful with the gross generalizations. A profession has many builds. Beside, what is wrong with wanting all builds to inherently balance out on risk/reward?

P.S. Shatter mesmer was never,ever, an nonviable build in many competitive settings (duel, pvp or wvw).

Sorry, but history of tournaments pre-patch, and the fact that mesmer was basically cannon fodder for thieves.
Kinda proves that statement false.

Edit. Nvm
Fay covered it.

Let’s say you are both right, you and Fay, that still doesn’t answer what is wrong with wanting balance on the risk/reward scale.

No, there is nothing wrong with wanting balance.

I think Fay and others have been advocating for a few things that are to strong or broken trait wise to be fixed and brought in line.

On the other hand.
Their is a big difference in wanting the mesmer to be reverted to its pre-patch performance. I think ( and many others…or possibly every mesmer who plays competitevely) that is wrong, and will only lead to misinformation and unneccessary nerfs that do nothing but destroy the diversity of builds a class has.

This has been going on for as long as the game has been out, for everyone, I would like to see this patch start a new direction where we concentrate on fixing small things, instead of kneejerking a class out of the meta for 2 years

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Careful with the gross generalizations. A profession has many builds. Beside, what is wrong with wanting all builds to inherently balance out on risk/reward?

P.S. Shatter mesmer was never,ever, an nonviable build in many competitive settings (duel, pvp or wvw).

Sorry, but history of tournaments pre-patch, and the fact that mesmer was basically cannon fodder for thieves.
Kinda proves that statement false.

Edit. Nvm
Fay covered it.

A Volcano.2510:

And not very good at 1 vs 1? Is there any profession that is currently better at 1 vs 1 than a mesmer?

Engi
Ele
and I think Trap Ranger is still king

DHawk.2687:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The profession as is, has next to no risk at all since it can bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it while maintaining huge burst every 15 secs and stuns nearly on demand. This is not my definition of “challenging”.

That’s three distinct builds you just described.

“Huge burst every 15s” = Power Shatter mesmer
“Bail at any moment without the opponent being able to do much about it” = PU Mesmer
“Stuns nearly on demand” = Lockdown mesmer

Some people mix and match between those a bit, but you don’t get to have all three at once.

How about I turn that back on you?

Thief as is, is just too powerful as they can do a huge burst every 5s from the middle of nowhere while being able to apply so much condition damage that you can’t even heal up. Plus, they can just stay in stealth forever and there’s no way to see them coming.

Ele as is, is just too powerful as they can unload incredible amounts of damage all the time, and you can’t kill them because of their 20k health.

Guardian as is, is just too powerful because they’re pretty much invincible while being able to lay down tons of burns all the time with high condition damage.

if you consider 9k (about max backstab dmg) huge too powerfull bursts i don’t know what to say ^^
and you can always see the thief coming, SR is a big kill me sign, CnD is easy to spot and just dodge, blind field heartseaker use a daze and he’s done, or wait about 2-3 sec (the time he has to prepare a bs) and dodge.
but yeah that is pretty difficult ….

Only 9 k?

3 things,

They can Open on you from stealth-
They can CnD off of clones
They can steal and/or shadow step

AlphatheWhite.9351:

@Solori:
for now, replace PU nerf with fixing the bug where The Pledge does 3x as much cooldown reduction as it’s supposed to. Frankly, replacing the conditional cdr on The Pledge entirely might make all the difference, as long mesmer stealth becomes much harder to keep up without it, but we won’t know until they do, because The Pledge is adding so much stealth uptime that it’s distorting everyone’s experience with PU.

I think it goes a little beyond that.
I have to test this, but I believe stealth for a mesmer is stacking beyond what I originally thought was supposed to be a stealth cap ( 13s) and I thought ( maybe I was wrong) that stealth was capped to 5-6 seconds in spvp, I noticed from playing my thief that I didn’t stay stealthed from SR as long as I did in WvW.
I do agree though, the pledge should be fixed.

Sandrox.9524:

Carighan.6758:

Sandrox.9524:

Broken is when I can one shot heavy armor w/o the use of shatter even.
Broken is when i can 1v3 thieves with just using one shatter burst.
Broken is when mesmer can stealth more than thief with PU which is thief sort of unique ability.

No.

That’s not broken.

You completely missed the point of the person you cited. What you complain about is balance issues. I.e.: stuff can be unbalanced, either overpowered or underpowered.
Very different from broken.

Broken is:

• Symbolic Avenger
• Grenadier

Stuff like that.

Also, Thieves still kill Mesmers nicely. Honestly the only difference is that you now have to approach Mesmers like other classes, i.e.: care about the enemy. Instead of just HS-spam-to-win.
Mesmers are no longer thief-fodder. Or well, they are, but not as easy to kill. Still easy.

Should you read more slowly my post,you would have noticed that I havent said anything about thieves cant kill mesmers.I said mesmers can easly kill thieves. And im not pulling it out of my butt chick,i litreally downed 3 thieves with shatter combo.
+ I can stun every 5 second while doing so. It’s godmode,and that is why it is BROKEN not unbalanced cause unbalanced means that some things should be tuned up or down,but when the whole gokitten class is messed up(right in the class core mechanic),the class is BROKEN so yes Guardian mass symbol thing is broken too but stun every 5s and more or equal stealth to thief is BROKEN. And I play both classes(I play all but mostly those 2 and a bit of necromancer).

And about mesmer VS thief thingy you talking about-anet already gave mesmers enough defense with manipulation tweaks and the fact IP is core.+gave more stealth.this alone makes mesmer more notable to thieves.And good mesmers beat thieves easly before patch aswell.part of d/d thieves,mesmers,and I speaking for myself,never been in tough spot against thieves.

Since I played mesmer afterpatch and facerolled almost everyone,I stopped playing it.Anet just ruined mesmers for me,they amde it too easy where they said they want to make mesmer more skilled base.

……You….actually wrote an entire post of contradictions…

To respond to my 25(?) Day old thread.
This question was asked because during the patch week. The first thing people did, was complain about mes damage and mes stealth,. Ignoring other classes that could do close to the same or better damage and stealth. I made this post to ask and find out why, when everyone was in the phase of learning, that some people who “claimed” to be mesmer mains wanted everything nerfed. Before a new meta could even blossom.
Over the past few weeks I am thankful that A-net didn’t completely cave into the whine.
I am also grateful to the people in the mesmer community that tested more things and identified more things that could be changed to put the class in line vs just blindly nerfing everything.
So some community things I think we can all agree or come to an agreement on.
CS needs to have a longer ICD
BD needs to be fixed to be dodgeable and blockable
PU needs to buff stealth duration possibly a flat 2seconds.
Veil needs to be buffed
Our staff trait needs to be buffed or give a flat reduction.

Bugs need to be fixed for everyone.

I think almost everyone has come to terms that this damage output for all classes may be the new direction gw2 is going. And I make that assumption because of the world boss changes, and I’m betting we will see that change spread to the rest of the game.

P.S.
I have noticed more people coming up with unconventional builds to deal with this burst meta.
Go go tank necro

Choppy.4183:

Vague Memory.2817:

Mes is still one of the most challenging classes to learn. But good luck.

It really isn’t. How many people who main other classes but have recently switched to mesmer have to say this before it sinks in. Mesmer is super easy to pick up and be effective.

Maybe it has a higher skill ceiling (i.e. has lots of potential to gain power as you master the class), but the skill floor (i.e. what you need to be a viable threat) is about as low as it gets now.

People said the same about ranger.

And about Warrior..

And about Ele..

and condi..

and thief…

Helcor.9527:

Solori.6025:

Helcor.9527:

Good point OP. Also looking to adapt. Engie looking to join the mesmer OP train till it stops or slows down. Funny, I wonder what the people saying troll thread are using? GASP i bet its mesmer….

….Are you dense?
Did you fall off the logic train into a river of dumb.
Do you even realize how dumb that statement is?

Im glad youre smart enough to ask and not dumb enough to make an obviously stupid insult. So to put it simply, you must not get it. Have a great day Sol!

You’re right, I totally missed the sarcasm.
Because their was no possible way that was a serious post. My apologies.

Helcor.9527:

Good point OP. Also looking to adapt. Engie looking to join the mesmer OP train till it stops or slows down. Funny, I wonder what the people saying troll thread are using? GASP i bet its mesmer….

….Are you dense?
Did you fall off the logic train into a river of dumb.
Do you even realize how dumb that statement is?

aophts.9862:

I wanna kill them, i hate mesmers with a passion.

How do i even fight them? How do i counter?

How do i escape of being transformed into a moa while they are invisible and lose 80% of my HP in 2 seconds?

Please, help me understand how to fight mesmers as a warrior and guardian.

Thank you.

I get off work in a few hours OP if you want to duel some on your guardian. ( about 7:30 cst) I would recommend making a mesmer. Learning how to fight with it. Then making a build to fight against it. You can only learn so much by slamming your head against the wall

MandJ.8965:

Solori.6025:

MandJ.8965:

, there is the Inspiration traitline which is OP.

Oh you’re gonna explain this.

How is this traitline, the line that only really add’s support or group buffs..Which was nerfed in less than 48 hours after the patch. OP?

I am honestly curious why you chose inspiration over every other traitline.

Because if you play these line, some other traits really really get strong. You have an insane condition remove and heal. For example, Inspiration and Chaos. PU gets even stronger with this trait. Maybe I should call these traits by the name, not blaming the full traitline. That was fail.

I know what you’re talking about.

I also disagree…kind of…
Like the condition removal is how I have to trait to counter heavy burn teams or condition roamers in WvW.

The heal is only really a big deal with healing power and clones present.

And you lose a lot of offensive options traiting in both chaos AND inspiration.

Though I think when PU gets it’s “shave” and our bugs are fixed. A lot more builds for mesmer will start to pop up.

MandJ.8965:

, there is the Inspiration traitline which is OP.

Oh you’re gonna explain this.

How is this traitline, the line that only really add’s support or group buffs..Which was nerfed in less than 48 hours after the patch. OP?

I am honestly curious why you chose inspiration over every other traitline.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

.

@Solori

The truth is, many people on the forum did what the OP did and have said so. Just go reread the many posts on the topic. Yet, here we are with you wishing these people who give the mesmer a chance would exist as if none who view things differently and with legitimate reasons ever did… despite the fact they did…

a few things..because you are talking to a person that didn’t address you, but for some reason decided that for what ever reason this came off as an attack or some post directed at you to respond to.

Go to the pvp forum and you see people that say
" Mesmer 1 shot me, it needs to be nerfed"
“Mesmer stayed in stealth and ran from me, it needs to be nerfed.”
“Mesmer stealthed, blinked, invuled,bursted, stunned me down and didn’t take any damage, it needs to be nerfed”

You find very VERY few people saying " Oh I just tried it and figured out why I was having trouble, the reasons are A-B-C, so I started doing E-F-G and now I have a better chance. I would recommend more people try Build X to learn how to counter Build Y for professions Q, maybe you can come up with a good build that isn’t glass"

You don’t see many of those, you DO see walls of QQ threads being started. You DO see people QQ’ing in threads with the intention of civil discussion.
That is what I see on the majority of the competitive boards.
Also no where did I say people like the op didn’t exist Thank you for putting words in my mouth btw
I DID say

I wish more people in this forum were like you OP, I honestly do.

let me emphasize this for you.

more people

No where does that say, I wish ALL, but more.

Secondly,

.

There is also another very simple fact that again support what I just said above. Many people Did play a mesmer and really tried it a lot on both side of the fence. Sadly, and very strangely, the only legitimate ppl seem to be the ones who have spoken like the OP… Why are the PoV of veteran mesmers and other professions who have fought loads of them dismissed and the PoV of a new player in that field so highly praised?

No where, have I said that the PoV of a vet, is less than that of a new player.
Are you saying we should NOT thank a new player for having a fresh perspective?

I DID say

“The simple fact is a lot of people simply don’t want to get better or adapt.”

And that is a fact. A lot of people simply want what they play and how they play to be the best without competition, they want their style of play, their trait choices, etc. to be the best without having to learn or change.

I don’t know how you read that, or any part of my post, as me saying I don’t value vets ( especially when I recently posted in an appreciation thread for mesmer vets that you feel contributed to the mesmer community, or something like that). Or that their PoV doesn’t matter.

You have some deep seated issues and you may want to make a thread about it, instead of taking post like mine 3 shades out of context.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Stop using marauders/berzerkers amulet and you won’t blow up in 0.5 seconds…

^ +1

Darkness.9732:

Mesmers need to be nerfed heavily.
No discussion.

……I’m guessing you’re still upset about your ranger huh :P

Reinn.7436:

3 ele? Holy kitten

obviously the team with the mesmer won

/s

Nilkemia.8507:

Phent.9350:

You die against 2vs1 and think that is unfair? lol, day after day QQ post are more and more absurd Oo

This is regarding two thieves. Against two of anything else, be they different proffesions or the same, you can at least fight back or try to disengage if they’re too much. Against two thieves, you can do neither, especially if they get the drop on you first.

ummm..

Two fresh air burst ele’s will kill you instantly, you can see them coming.
Two medi guardians will quickness burst you, you will see them coming
Two rangers can burst you down from range, you may see them coming
Two burst engi’s can CC you to death while burst you down, you wont be able to fight back
Two lich forms with destroy you, If you dont see that your blind

The point is.
Two of any class WILL kill you, if they coordinate a spike.
Two of any coordinated player will kill you.

If you run with no defense and no awareness, then sorry, you set yourself up to fail vs two of ANY glasscannon class.

I don’t see why you are complaining about fighting a 2 v 1 and dying, next time bring a friend. I hear MM necro tanks are in this season. :I