Guild Wars 2

Arken.3725:

Solori.6025:

Arken.3725:

Solori.6025:

Arken.3725:

Hey guys, I recently did some testing with a solid Mesmer(Warlord of Chaos) to see how insane both Condition dmg Guardian and Interrupt Mesmer currently are. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ

So a glass mesmer does a lot of damage to a class with no toughness..

And burn stacks that are not cleansed instantly do 5k per tick.

Cool..

Are we gonna talk about how anet buffed stats too high or nah?

I shouldn’t even acknowledge this horrendously ignorant post because if you actually watched the video, I stated MULTIPLE times the armor/health values of what we tested and neither had “no toughness.”

Thank you for your constructive post.

Sorry I didn’t listen to anything because sleeping children. Did you know most videos have a mute button that turns off sounds and still let’s the footage run. Weird concept I know. Anyway

Stat compensation was overdone in my opinion. They need to scale back some things and change damage formula. Also powerblock may get the mug treatment

I apologize for coming off like a kitten. This video is to demonstrate how insane burst on both sides is. Obviously we didn’t fight most in the video but towards the end we did some duels.

Ahh I didn’t make it towards the duels, I will pick it up where I left off when I get a free moment ( go go drug induced baby sleep)

Can you guys when you get a chance also test engineer and warrior

I was bursted down by an engi yesterday then condi wrecked by another.

For the warrior I noticed one skull cracked, then HB people down with quickness. pretty much insta killing them.

I also agree.
Damage is high for everyone.
I wish people would stop trying to favor one class over the other and admit that it;s high for their class too.

Arken.3725:

Solori.6025:

Arken.3725:

Hey guys, I recently did some testing with a solid Mesmer(Warlord of Chaos) to see how insane both Condition dmg Guardian and Interrupt Mesmer currently are. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ

So a glass mesmer does a lot of damage to a class with no toughness..

And burn stacks that are not cleansed instantly do 5k per tick.

Cool..

Are we gonna talk about how anet buffed stats too high or nah?

I shouldn’t even acknowledge this horrendously ignorant post because if you actually watched the video, I stated MULTIPLE times the armor/health values of what we tested and neither had “no toughness.”

Thank you for your constructive post.

Sorry I didn’t listen to anything because sleeping children. Did you know most videos have a mute button that turns off sounds and still let’s the footage run. Weird concept I know. Anyway

Stat compensation was overdone in my opinion. They need to scale back some things and change damage formula. Also powerblock may get the mug treatment

Arken.3725:

Hey guys, I recently did some testing with a solid Mesmer(Warlord of Chaos) to see how insane both Condition dmg Guardian and Interrupt Mesmer currently are. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46hPricq-RQ

So a glass mesmer does a lot of damage to a class with no toughness..

And burn stacks that are not cleansed instantly do 5k per tick.

Cool..

Are we gonna talk about how anet buffed stats too high or nah?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

But I feel that you’re generalizing things and making it seem like it’s more than what it is.

Sorry if I came off that way, forgive me though if I fear we will be nerfed prematurely and have little to no room in the new meta. We have always been overshadowed by other classes to the point where portal is our only real niche, and if someone gets a specialization with glamours and a portal that niche for us will then be gone.
I would much rather see the meta evolve with us still in it, than for us to be overshadowed by other classes for another year or three.

Right now shatter bursts are instant. 0-100 out-of-stealth kills. THAT is the main complaint. I’ve seen and done it myself, and I can agree that in it’s current state it IS too strong.

Based on the fact that everyone now is glass?

Yes you can now 0-100 someone.
But so can everyone else.
this is one of the main things I and others have been telling people.

EVERYONE is glass, and EVERYONE is doing insane damage.
not just mesmers

I think Anet needs to shave power off of every amulet and reduce power from gear.
We have a power creep from multiple sources. But it effects everyone.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

O.K. This is getting silly.

There is a lot of over dramatics and generalizing all over the place.

Why do people like to blame the entire forum for the actions of a few? And if you really look at those threads, they’re only pointing at a few specific traits that need tweaking.

All these diagnosis and claiming Mesmers want themselves nerfed makes the situation seem way worse than it really is. Its just a few non-Mesmers complaining and some Mesmer mains with obvious concerns over some extremely powerful specs that they don’t want Anet to overnerf like Chaotic Dampening and Maimed.

… And can we please stop with the underdog thing? People are blowing that way out of proportion.

Sorry, looking in this subforum alone the repeated mantra of
Shatter is too strong
when Everyone is too strong.

OR having someone tell me mesmer is too strong when it’s on par.

OR looking in the pvp forum and seeing " I main a mesmer the damage/stun/stealth/clones/phantasms/ conditions/traits are too strong"

And I see little to no one saying

“Look, this seems strong because you are doing A-B-C and they have been doing D-F-E, because they have been playing M-spec since before you knew it was a thing and you ignored M-spec because they tickled you. Try building B-spec and learning what they are doing before you try a glass M-spec.”

Instead a I see a lot of people claiming to be mesmer mains and agreeing with every other fallacy spewed by someone that is kitten they didnt dodge the running clones or stood still when they saw 2 dodgeroll clones pop up.

Sorry, if that seems dramatic, but I dont see thieves in there forum telling people they need to nerf SA or thier burst damage

I don’t see engineer’s in there forum saying they need to nerf their burning duration or grenades

I don’t see Necro’s in their subforum saying they apply too many condi’s or their passive trait is too strong.

I don’t see Ele’s in their forum saying they need to nerf the blinding they do on burning.

I don’t see warriors asking for their stun combo or BP to be nerfed.

Here it’s a different story.
THAT is what I’m talking about.
Even when we do draw attention to something, we are over-nerfed anyway.
Has been happening since the game was released.
We just have a few people that speed up the process.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Solori.6025:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Learn to read instant bursts from invisible targets that can stun you three times in a row while teleporting around like deranged poltergeists. Such a l2p issue, amirite?

It’s not instant though. You do know you can see clones run towards you right…..you can dodge shatter just like you could prepatch. Its nothing new.
If you are having problems now , chances are you were having a problem with mesmers before, and that does make it a L2P issue

Uhm, you can dodge while stunned? This is news to me. I really need to read up on those patch notes and get good.

So you get stunned, and magically and instantly, before you can use your stun break 3 clones pop up, the mesmers gets in melee range and you go from 15k/17k up to nothing. All of that happens, before you can use a utility to stun break.

Sorry have you actually used a stun break before?
my statement still stands. If you are having problems now, you had problems before, and you still haven’t learned how to play against it.

PistolWhip.2697:

Vieux P.1238:

Levetty.1279:

PistolWhip.2697:

Levetty.1279:

PistolWhip.2697:

Levetty.1279:

PistolWhip.2697:

Levetty.1279:

PistolWhip.2697:

But I’m not, they are just the most broken.

When they can apply high stacks of every condition to you in the game at range in seconds then we’ll talk but all you are doing is making it obvious you havn’t actually played post patch.

No but they can down you in one shatter. If you need tips on how I am sure I can set up a lesson with my friend, he has done it to people in front of me to prove the point.

And that is different from any other burst build post patch? Oh right a Mesmer is doing it.

Yes it is. Honestly, this is going nowhere. Let us both save ourselves time and walk away.

Yes please do walk away, hopefully you will jump in game and see what this new patch has to offer all the classes and come back with knowledge of the game but I Imagine you will just whine about how mesmer needs nerfs on the pvp boards instead.

I have been online today and all day yesterday. I honestly think you’re taking this too personally, if they find mesmer broken they will nerf it regardless of what you or I say, I don’t see why you’re fighting me like I am the guy in charge of balance decisions on Anet.

Mesmer’s damage will be nerfed, mark my words, more so than other classes I’d imagine.

Power creep isn’t good for the game. I am done, honestly you’re just going to give me another bitter reply after I have tried being reasonable and make baseless assumptions again. Maybe you should stop being so defensive and think outside the bubble that is your knee-jerk self preservation reflex.

That is all the advice I can afford you. Enjoy GTA 5.

If you were being reasonable you would give me actual proof that Mesmer is stronger then other classes other then ‘my headmates told me’, you wouldn’t be denying that every other class has got some ridiculous buffs and you would be asking that all classes get toned down to stop this power creep.

Levetty.1279, nvm Pistolwhip. Cuz your right about him. He is kitten cuz he cant get his free luch no more. Or at least gonna have to do like others. Work for it. Among other trolling thieves we endured during all this time.

For the last time, I don’t play thief. I don’t understand how illiterate people gain access to these forums lol.

Same can be asked about people with no experience fighting certain classes. I think they should separate the forums based on time played for each profession.

Anyway, I haven’t noticed you complain about thief 10k
Heartseekers.. so forgive us if we make the assumption you just want your free kills back

SlayerSixx.5763:

Learn to read instant bursts from invisible targets that can stun you three times in a row while teleporting around like deranged poltergeists. Such a l2p issue, amirite?

It’s not instant though. You do know you can see clones run towards you right…..you can dodge shatter just like you could prepatch. Its nothing new.
If you are having problems now , chances are you were having a problem with mesmers before, and that does make it a L2P issue

So I noticed that on every other subforum people are embracing there new abilities, figuring out new builds and counters. Then you have us. Asking for every new thing we received to be Nerfed. Not looking at the big picture.
People are pointing fingers at every one and everything.

But in this class community.
We have people advocating for everything we have be Nerfed into the ground before the dust for a new meta even settles.
why are we like this? I am genuinely curious.

Dirame.8521:

DaShi.1368:

Ithilwen.1529:

I adamantly disagree. In my 3rd year of play, this is the first time I feel on a relatively even footing.

What needs to happen is the former burst/zerk classes that could destroy a Mesmer ( or Ele ) in seconds learn to have some defense.

I understand the sour grapes. Rangers, Warriors, Guardians and thieves prety much had the upper hand going into a fight with a Mesmer.

This led them to believe they were highly skilled. Now, they need to learn a new skill set and defense.

Pretty much sums it up. Mesmers are now on par with those classes, which is, of course, unacceptable to them.

Yea, someone that can spam stuns every 5 seconds is totally on par with people who actually play their class. I mean really, these guys who are exploiting the ability to spam stuns are totally amazing mesmers who would be considered top tier in PvP if they were ever given the chance.

GIVE ME A BLOODY BREAK MATE! And I don’t mean a kitkat.

You cant spam stuns every 5 seconds as a mesmer?
Did you mean thief?

If you are losing to a lockdown mesmer they are probably timing their interrupts according to the animation you are about to use.

Did you know that getting stability OR going invulnerable makes interrupts not effect you?

If you are losing to a lockdown mes now, you were probably losing to them prepatch.

Ragnarox.9601:

Its fine if you are a mesmer warrior or necro because they melt everyone now xD

I wouldnt ask for nerfs too if I were playing them.

Everyone melts everyone.

Stats from amulets are gonna get shaved first before anything else is done ( if anet is smart)

Vieux P.1238:

Khyber.1284:

Anyone else crushing it pvp now-a-days?

don’t even try it & make us sound like mesmers are to OP. Cuz there not.

We have an advantage over other players & that is that we learned how to work around other classes advantages. We learned to have skill’s & timing. With the changes that makes us dangerous atm in pvp. but players are learning to work around it fast. & there adapting & starting to kill us more & more i’ve noticed. Wont be to long before all players starts kicking back.

Fyi: players are learning that they have to build a medium tanky build or run the risk to be 1 shoted by every classes. The easy 1 shot power build is gradually leaving the house.

I agree, All of the good mesmer’s have been down in the dirt, learning how to be better than the class that had an advantage.
Now we are on par, with the skills we learned.

It’s gonna be a repeat of the ranger LB change.
-
1st phase- crying on a massive scale
2nd phase- denial by the vocal few and the good pvp’ers learning how to counter
3rd phase- the bads QQ while the pvp’ers continue on like it never happened.

3-4months as always

Hockmed.9417:

Solori.6025:

On the other note.
I have noticed a lot of classes can 100-0 people.
Or perma stun them
Or burn them for 3k+
OR condi load them in a second

Everything is powerful, not just us.

But therein lies the problem. Everything else is working as intended, at least in the general sense. Compare what will happen to other classes, and what will happen to Mesmer. The scales won’t even be near equal.
.

Sorry what?

No
NO
everything is not working as intended.

No, mesmer doesn’t magically pull ahead of the pack. They are finally in line with everyone and people are freaking out. Because this is the first time in a LONG time that mesmer has had the capability to actually be dangerous and punish people for spamming and doing dumb things.
It’s like when ranger’s were buffed and people cried bloody murder because they never had to deal with a ranger before ( kinda like the OP)

This is the problem we are having now.
People are complaining about everything new.

When the dust settles ( 3-4 months from now) I think we will have more viable builds for every class that fit in this meta.
This would be the first time (? i think?) in the history of gw2 pvp where every class has some role they could fill.

On the other hand.
I think we will see stats shaved from the pvp amulets and gear before that happens.
The power creep is real, no one can deny that.

Kitta.3657:

I agree with everything that was said from Xaylin (especially about chaotic dampening) aside from the PU trait.

You can literally perma stealth with it now. That is not good for the game even though it’s anti-conquest. (it is the most OP trait in WvW per example) You can let your phantasms do all the work while you rotate your stealth and rarely ever come out of it. Or you can go super burst and 100-0 people everytime your cooldowns are up from rotating your stealth again. It needs to be turned back to what it used to be. Stealth mesmer in conquest should never be a thing (imo) and this is currently buffing it to an obvious break of balance where it actually has a place (WvW). But at this point, why am I even bothering… OP stuff in WvW anet doesn’t care – venomshare wells cough cough

I had theorycrafted my build to use Chaotic Dampening before the patch because it felt right though when the patch hit I understood how strong it was and I can see why it needed a bit of shaving off but currently the amount chosen is very underwhelming and puts it back into the list of things that were nerfed too kitten mesmer. Please reconsider the % for recharge.

I hear you, but balance in WvW will never be a thing (guard stacks? +/- duration food? Food that literally gives you a static damage increase on top of oils and stones?)

Unless you make the rules of WvW like pvp and give people amulets, don’t expect balance there.

On the other note.
I have noticed a lot of classes can 100-0 people.
Or perma stun them
Or burn them for 3k+
OR condi load them in a second

Everything is powerful, not just us.

Was just perma stunned by a warrior..

If you dont know what rage is, fight a cav war with a mace =_=

Zephyr.6475:

The Arena-net team has tried its hand at a couple anti-stealth mechanics, Engineer Lock On, and Ranger Sic ‘em. In my opinion those anti-stealth mechanics aren’t meaningful or impactful in the game as they require classes to either give up important traits, or useful utility skills, and said mechanics are only available to two of the available 8 classes.

As a Thief main, I would propose an anti stealth mechanic built into stealth itself, not requiring any goofy traits or utilities. Stealth counter-play could be available to all classes regardless of build. This anti-stealth or reveal mechanic could work in two ways.

1. Characters utilizing stealth receive a stealth bar, the bar is depleted when too much damage is taken while in stealth, and the character is removed from stealth.

2. Or, Stealth duration is reduced when damage is taken, eg: every 1000 damage reduces stealth duration by 1 second.

This Anti-stealth mechanic could be balanced around whether or not stealth removal results in the revealed debuff, and changing the numbers around for damage required to remove stealth.

I think most players would be happier with this anti-stealth mechanic than goofy traits and utilities, and I as a thief main could live with them. ANET PLS

Ideas? Feedback?

Roll an engi.
Roll a guardian (dragonhunter)
OR
L2 AOE,block,invuln,

Cap stealth at 6 seconds in pvp

problem solved.

Dojo.1867:

Ithilwen.1529:

To hear “mesmer is op” is music to my ears to be honest. It’s not true though.

Mesmers finally being on par has exposed the weakness of some of the other classes that were able to rely on melting an inherently underpowered Mesmer class.

That’s a skill issue the other classes need to cope with.

Ye because mesmer was underpowered it was in every turney team.

…it was in 1 tourney team iirc

The Baws.5164:

Ithilwen.1529:

To hear “mesmer is op” is music to my ears to be honest. It’s not true though.

Mesmers finally being on par has exposed the weakness of some of the other classes that were able to rely on melting an inherently underpowered Mesmer class.

That’s a skill issue the other classes need to cope with.

So…

The majority of Guild Wars 2’s PvP community’s opinion < your opinion because you want to believe you are a god on your Mesmer which you are protecting adamantly.

Kk.

It’s not the majority.
It’s people deflecting from one class to the other.

I have heard that condi’s are OP
Necro’s are OP
Engineers are OP
Warriors are OP
Ele’s are OP
Thieves are the same
Mesmer’s are OP
Guardians are OP
and Rangers are OP

I have heard everything from zerk is to strong to condi’s are to strong, from burning is too powerful to torment stacks deal too much damage.

The thing people fail to realize is that this is day 3.

Nothing has settled, no one has tried everything.
And some people try one thing and stick with it.

Yes I do agree, damage across the board is to high FOR EVERYONE, and if they are going to do something about it, they need to shave stat points off the amulets first.
Then adjust some traits that promote passive play.

It’s not JUST ele and mes doing high damage.

I think it’s the stats.
I think they over compensated on a few amulets.

Everyone has a zerk spec that does something nasty, and the traits are not helping.

I think at this point the best thing to do would be to shave some stat points and do some minor tweaking to everyones traits.

Caelus.7139:

tobascodagama.2961:

ResJudicator.7916:

But mesmer damage feels very over the top right now.

It only feels that way because we’re used to having the short end of the stick. What actually happened is that we’re finally in line with everybody else.

A thousand times this. Too long has it been where we have always had to adjust to every class. It’s high time they adjusted to us. That or I simply ask the devs to look at EVERY CLASS and not just us before they decide to nerf things.

This is the only class subforum I have seen that advocates for their class to be back on the bottom. It’s silly.

We have been in a position where a badly played mesmer is punished almost twice as hard as another class.
We hav been in the position for almost a year where a mediocre thief can still have a chance against a good mes, this has changed.
We are no longer the bottom of the zerk chain.

While I do agree some seem strong, I think we need to let the dust settle first before we start jumping on the this is OP train.
We have barely seen what other classes can pull out, people are still trying to figure out the new way to bunker, and everyone is still playing glass something testing damage.

Let’s give it a little bit, see what everyone’s cards are, before we ask for something that doesn’t need to be nerfed OR nerf a build into the ground that deals with something that hardcounters another one of ours.

@warlock
I do agree, the blind on shatters needs to be dodgeable, this needs to be fixed ASAP.

jbondo.9817:

I don’t know where to begin.
I don’t want to explain…..

But,

What are some other MMO’s with interesting PvP?
Anyone have any suggestions?

Please explain, I honestly want to read why you think it’s broken.

Also, ArchAge has great pvp :P

So have they responded to this buzz yet or can we just label this concern and the veteran players dust under the rug?

Seera.5916:

4. It’s not false advertising. You still need the base game to play HoT. They’ve just bundled the two together in one key. Not having something in place to quickly copy & paste onto the forums for those who did purchase withing the past 30-60 days was the mistake here. To me, they also still haven’t officially announced that because it’s not on the official forum. ANet needs to learn to post things on more than just every site but the official forums. We shouldn’t have to post a link to a post on Reddit from a dev about what they are doing for those who purchased recently. It is however shady given they’ve done sales of the game recently.

.

Actually it is false advertising.
They are not only delivering on the deal they promised, they also led people on to believe they needed to purchase the core game before HoT, and had sales 3+ months before they announced this bundle.

Straylight.7529:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Where is this located in the FAQ,Buy page, Terms of purchase?

I’m still waiting on the link from the place where you actually buy HoT, or get information about what you are about to purchase.

I’m sorry to tell you.
It’s advertised and sold as a bundle.
And until the wording changes and refunds go out.
That is a fact. Under the law.
Not an opinion.

BrotherBelial.3094:

WSG Delen.9203:

Ok, I have relented and bought HoT both for myself and my pal BUT neither of us received a CD Key for the base game. While this may be of limited use as both of us already own the base game having the CD Key would have allowed us to have second accounts. Given the store clearly states “includes Guild Wars 2 core game” they are in contempt of the trade description act in the UK by not delivering CD Keys for the Core Game.

It dose say for new players. And this is what some of the kitten storm is about.

Link me the official buy page or FAQ where it says this, because by law that is where it should be.

Mooncaller.9634:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Unsolicited-Legal-Advice-to-A-Net-NCSoft/first#post5177136
I think it’s cute that this thread got closed. May have been uncomfortable to leave open I guess.

I mean, that thread did basically arm players with relevant, and legal information.
Why would any company keep that on the forums.

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

Straylight.7529:

echo.2053:

so player A pays $50 gets core +HoT
Player B already owning core pays $50 and only gets HoT

Tell me more how that’s not bait and switch xD- I enjoy

especially when “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” is on the buy page

It’s not bait and switch. It’s an incentive for new players to buy HoT. They could have also offered the core game on a reduced price but apparently they felt generous and gave it for free if you’re a new player.

or they could have had a reduced HoT deal for existing players with the current price package for new players ( this is where the rage is stemming)

Its not bait and switch? so you have access to play on the second core game purchased through this promotion?

Again, stop thinking about what other people get. It’s none of your business if Bob gets a better deal because he’s a new player. All you have to ask yourself is “is HoT worth 50$ for ME”. That is something only you can decide and the answer should not be influenced if some other guy gets a free core game/character slot/mini/unicorn/whatever and you don’t.

You’ll be happier if you adopt this kind of non-envious thinking. Trust me.

You’re not purchasing a second core game. You are purchasing HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game for free.

again “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” from the buy page

I get that you don’t mind throwing ma’s money away without care – why should you you didn’t have to work for it, As for me When i purchase something i going to make sure i get what i paid for. If im paying for a new core game then im going to make sure i can use that new core game.

Why does this matter to you anyways? seriously worst case scenario they lower the price either refunding you back the difference or offering something else to make up the difference… you still benefit either way. So before telling me the value of a dollar ( which is pretty clear since your paying more for less) take a page out of your own autobiography because it’s "none of your business " what another player is getting. right?

I’ve tried explaining this.
It’s like trying to explain right and wrong to the joker, not gonna happen or work

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Here is my rebuttal

Show me on the faq or buy page where it says for new accounts only.

Show me on the FAQ or buy page where it says people who have had accounts do not get another one free.

Then after that, link me the definition of the word includes.

I have refuted the same point 3 times already, you’re being willfully ignorant.

Again, strawman argument. I’ve never claimed those things you’re now demanding me to “proof”. Read my post again (the previous one), try to understand. You’re not paying for the core game again or some bundle. You’re paying for HoT and only HoT. If you are a new player you get the core game thrown in for free.

No it isn’t a straw man argument, again you are being willfully ignorant.

You JUST, not even 10 minutes ago said and I quote

Straylight.7529:

If you shelf out 50$ you’re paying for HoT. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you’re a veteran and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
If you’re a new player and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
It’s not about bundles….you’re not paying for a bundle…you’re paying for HoT. You just happen to get the base game for free if you’re a new player. You can try to see HoT as the new “core” game if that makes it easier.

Which is by the language on the buy page
100% false.

The standard edition says
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns?_ga=1.150305589.243290696.1381912305&cid=90:5::::Global:40:::

The definition of include is-
to contain, as a whole does parts or any part or element:-

that means
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes ((see the definition))Guild Wars 2 core game)
A Bundle-bun·dle
?b?ndl/Submit
noun
1.
a collection of things

So try and put two an two together.

Sorry this isn’t an opinion, based on this buy page, it’s a matter of fact. This deal is in fact a bundle.
50$ gets you two things( or is supposed to)

Lastly, I asked you to prove that what I was saying was incorrect, that you are not supposed to get both the core and base game for 50$ based on the information provided from the main sale page and the FAQ.

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

You’re seeing it the wrong way. They’re not selling you the core game plus HoT. They are selling you HoT. You just happen to get the core game for free (because it’s a prerequirement to access HoT) if you are a new player. The price for HoT is 50$

translating your post into a different language wouldn’t get rid of it’s logical flaws.

There isn’t a logical flaw, expecting a NA company to abide by the language they put into there sale is not illogical.

What is illogical is refusing to educate yourself to basic definitions, and then refusing to understand the basic concept of a bundle, which is clearly what this is.

You don’t know what include means, even though I have linked the definition.
You don’t know what a bundle is, even though I have tried various times to explain it and OFFERED to translate that explanation.

You are being illogical and refusing to understand basic concepts and read what is clearly stated, and then trying to divert the base language of this sale to a Point of View, or an opinion of what it should mean.

You are being illogical, and uninformative, argumentative because people are not adhering to your opinion of what this sale means or should, and ignorant by refusing to educate yourself to basic definitions of the English language.

“I would recommend going and buying an English thesaurus, and if you don’t know what that is, go buy a dictionary and work your way forward”
-Jim Jefferies

Why don’t you just try to refute my point instead of writing long-winded insults. It’s not going to help you bringing your point across.

If you shelf out 50$ you’re paying for HoT. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you’re a veteran and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
If you’re a new player and you pay 50$ you get access to HoT and all its features.
It’s not about bundles….you’re not paying for a bundle…you’re paying for HoT. You just happen to get the base game for free if you’re a new player. You can try to see HoT as the new “core” game if that makes it easier.

I’m not adhering to your opinion because I think your opinion is wrong/flawed. No offense!

Constantly telling me to educate myself on the English language is not going to help you win an argument. I’m sorry!

Here is my rebuttal

Show me on the faq or buy page where it says for new accounts only.

Show me on the FAQ or buy page where it says people who have had accounts do not get another one free.

Then after that, link me the definition of the word includes.

I have refuted the same point 3 times already, you’re being willfully ignorant.

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

I think this is going way over your comprehension level.

Do you know what includes means?

Do you know what a bundle is?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Yes, the core game is included for free when you’re a new player. That’s what I’m saying all along. That’s what arenanet is saying. English is not my first language but I think it’s good enough to show you that your logic is simply wrong.

No, again, you don’t understand what include means.
and that isn’t what arenanet is saying based on the meaning of the word includes.

Includes in as simple of a form as i can put it. Is going to a store and buying grapes, but the store clerk gives you an apple and says when you buy grapes, you also get an apple, because they are sold together.

Now back to the wording on the buy page.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

And thats exactly why I said they should change it to say “included for new players” or “new accounts”. Its a misunderstanding. They did say that its just for new players though, they just need to change the buy page.

No it’s much more than a misunderstanding, it’s a direct and blatant legal issue, they need to not only change it, but refund people their money, then clarify what they actually meant.

Then quit posting on the forums and go after that legal action. They already have clarified what they actually meant. I knew what it meant before I purchased it and I got the information from ANet.

Oh sure,
As soon as you stop saying
“The core game is free”
" your just paying for the expansion" Or anything in it’s likeness
“The core game is a gift”
“Entitled”
“You have gotten plenty for just logging in for the past 3 years.” Or anything in it’s likeness.

Basically, stop posting and let people with valid concerns, issues, or displeasure post.
You do that, and I’ll consider your suggestion.

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

I think this is going way over your comprehension level.

Do you know what includes means?

Do you know what a bundle is?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Yes, the core game is included for free when you’re a new player. That’s what I’m saying all along. That’s what arenanet is saying. English is not my first language but I think it’s good enough to show you that your logic is simply wrong.

No, again, you don’t understand what include means.
and that isn’t what arenanet is saying based on the meaning of the word includes.

Includes in as simple of a form as i can put it. Is going to a store and buying grapes, but the store clerk gives you an apple and says when you buy grapes, you also get an apple, because they are sold together.

Now back to the wording on the buy page.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

And thats exactly why I said they should change it to say “included for new players” or “new accounts”. Its a misunderstanding. They did say that its just for new players though, they just need to change the buy page.

No it’s much more than a misunderstanding, it’s a direct and blatant legal issue, they need to not only change it, but refund people their money, then clarify what they actually meant.

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

I think this is going way over your comprehension level.

Do you know what includes means?

Do you know what a bundle is?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Yes, the core game is included for free when you’re a new player. That’s what I’m saying all along. That’s what arenanet is saying. English is not my first language but I think it’s good enough to show you that your logic is simply wrong.

No, again, you don’t understand what include means.
and that isn’t what arenanet is saying based on the meaning of the word includes.

Includes in as simple of a form as i can put it. Is going to a store and buying grapes, but the store clerk gives you an apple and says when you buy grapes, you also get an apple, because they are sold together.

Now back to the wording on the buy page.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

the key word is includes.
it means that when you go to the page, you buy HoT and they are supposed to give you GW2 core also, because it is sold with HoT.

Regardless of whether you own gw2 or not, by the definition of the word includes, all customers who preorder are supposed to get gw2core and HoT.

That is what include means.

Does this explanation work? Is this easier to understand? Would it be easier to explain this in your native language, if so please say what it is and I will try and translate using google.

Straylight.7529:

Solori.6025:

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

I paid 70$ for GW2 three years ago. Now I pay 50$ in order to get access to HoT. What did I pay for?

Why is is relevant what you have or had from 3 years ago.

RIGHT NOW.

When you go to the buy page, what does it say for standard?

A simple thing called reading goes a long way.
But to reiterate.
It doesn’t matter if you bought the game 3 years ago or 2.
This bundle RIGHT NOW
says (includes Guild Wars 2 core game)
That means you are buying HoT and Gw2 Core.

It doesn’t say ANYWHERE ON THE FAQ OR BUY PAGE
You don’t get the core if you have one already.

So yes. YOU ARE buying a bundle when you buy HoT.

If English is not your first language please say so and I will use google translate to try and make this clearer.

Jongi.7612:

echo.2053:

Jongi.7612:

No no no no no… just no. Your not entitled to anything. You even helped my point across that you think your entitled because you bought the game 3 years ago. Did you not forget you got soooo much that isnt able to be gotten anymore in those 3 years without paying for it like living story season 2? Or how about just all the time you spent in game already, or the free level 20 boosts, or whatever else you could think of.

This is exactly what my original post was addressing, people need to understand this.

What do you mean I’m not entitled to what I pay for? If Im paying the same price as a new player whose buying the full game plus exspanion then i better be getting a second useable copy of gw2 to do whatever I desire with. If that is not the case ( which its not) then that is a bait and switch which yes should anger you.

They can keep their instant lvl 20 scrolls, I never asked or begged for them. in fact they are ridiculous storage wasters since they don’t stack. My character was level 80 before the 1st year, was still level 80 when the second year came around, and this third year…. guess what level the character will be – ill give you a riddle its a two digit number that looks like 80 and the second digit isn’t an 8.

What dont you understand that its JUST HoT. My character was level 80 before the first few months, your point? It doesnt mean I cant get a level 80 revenant in like… oh… however long it takes to get me out of the starting area.

Your not paying for the core game, get it through your head already.

YES you ARE…

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

Look at the definition of includes and tell me again how we are not buying the base game with HoT

Rai.9625:

Solori.6025:

Straylight.7529:

KGS.9842:

Straylight.7529:

Yes, that is correct. You get less value than the new players. But since you’re not a new player it shouldn’t concern you in the first place. Don’t think so hard about what “other people” get. Just ask yourself whether HoT is worth your money or not.

it actually concerns me (us) because both me and the new player are paying the same price for the same product in the same time period; that is simply put discrimination

You’re not being discriminated, jeez…
Yes, everyone gets treated the same way. Just like you said. You’re nothing special for already owning the game.

Actually it kind of is.

It’s like going to a restaurant because they have a deal that says
“Our pasta includes ( key word here try not to miss this ok) a silver fork.

You already have a silver fork you bought from the place 3 years ago.
So you and a tourist walk in, order the pasta deal.

And the waiter gives the tourist a plate of pasta and a silver fork.

and just hands you a plate of pasta and says
" Sorry, I forgot to mention when you ordered and paid for this you don’t get the silver fork because you have one from 3 years ago."

That is the issue.

That is true on another level, It really was badly worded on the shop site… still, that is not the problem everyone shares, some have other priorities why they are upset.

True..
I should reword the ending to this is "one " of the issues
Though talking about the specific situation, that does pertain the specific quote of " discrimination" because that is, in a sense, discrimination.

On the same note.
Everyone knows what discrimination means right?

Straylight.7529:

KGS.9842:

Straylight.7529:

Yes, that is correct. You get less value than the new players. But since you’re not a new player it shouldn’t concern you in the first place. Don’t think so hard about what “other people” get. Just ask yourself whether HoT is worth your money or not.

it actually concerns me (us) because both me and the new player are paying the same price for the same product in the same time period; that is simply put discrimination

You’re not being discriminated, jeez…
Yes, everyone gets treated the same way. Just like you said. You’re nothing special for already owning the game.

Actually it kind of is.

It’s like going to a restaurant because they have a deal that says
“Our pasta includes ( key word here try not to miss this ok) a silver fork.

You already have a silver fork you bought from the place 3 years ago.
So you and a tourist walk in, order the pasta deal.

And the waiter gives the tourist a plate of pasta and a silver fork.

and just hands you a plate of pasta and says
" Sorry, I forgot to mention when you ordered and paid for this you don’t get the silver fork because you have one from 3 years ago."

That is the issue.

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Rai.9625:

Cambeleg.7632:

Rai.9625:

You just said you wanted to be treated the same/get the same. That’s all. And THAT you can get, new acc incl. exp.
That is what newcomers get. They don’t get an existing Acc and then the Exp…

You said the exactly same thing as me and saying I’m wrong. That is quite illogical for me. New player gets new acc, new gw2 new hot. You can too. That is all.

True is, it isn’t preferred and I can understand that.

Though you ‘demand’ or ‘wish’ to get something similar, but not the same. You want something else as a bonus, promotion, because you are a veteran, no?

I’ll explain it easier, Rai:

You have a [Banana] since two years ago. Anet comes and offers a bundle that contains an [Apple] and a [Banana] for same price that you bought your old [Banana]. You want the [Apple], but you can’t buy it without the [Banana], so you tell “good, in this case, I want the full pack”. Anet replies then: “if you already had a [Banana], you only get the [Apple]. You’ll have to save the old [Banana] and grab the new [Banana] since the [Apple] is bound”.

Now tell me, Rai: only ‘cos you already had a [Banana] since two years ago, you have less right to have a new [Banana] ’cos it’s included in the bundle? Or if you don’t get the [Banana], you’d not ask for something with equal value as compensation for this loss in the purchase?

That is not how it is: You can have more than one Account.
But I admit it sucks that the offer is not the best for me. I can decide between getting a new banana and apple… and save my old banana too, but I can only make one banana apple smoothie.
And I would prefer my ripened Banana for that, but wouldn’t get an additional banana for it. Such is the nature of promotional gifts.

It’s not a gift.
No where does it say ( Only new accounts get the base game free.) OR
As a gift we included the base game for free only for new players
ON THE BUY PAGE OR FAQ

It in fact says
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

This is the definition of includes.

Include-comprise or contain as part of a whole.

I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand that regardless of whether you OWN or DO NOT OWN the base game.

50$ gets you/is supposed to get you BOTH
by the definition and wording of this sale.

Period.

Actually ANet did say that only new players get it if you read their forum post on the matter. Thats why earlier I said its a misunderstanding and that if they fixed the information under the package deals when you go to buy HoT what you just said would of never of came up.

They have had 3-4 days now to fix it?
Like the stealth edited the FAQ a couple of days ago.

If it is intended for this not to be a bundle, they are advertising this falsely and that is a legal no no.
If they want this bundle only for new players and it’s supposed to be a gift for them, they could have AT ANY POINT edited the language to not be ambiguous or false.

But they have not.

They have no link on the buy page for any type of clarification on the matter also.

The simple fact is. They haven’t
They are still advertising this product as a bundle, and still not delivering on this bundle.

This is the issue. Something that has gone over the heads of the knights, instead of telling people to wait and see, try sending in a ticket and asking anet to change the page. Then all they will have to do is refund the people that bought this under the pretense they were getting a bundle.
The end.

Well its not false advertising if the information is out there explaining what is going on now is it. Its not hidden behind thousands of posts and the information is there. I seen it before I even pre-ordered because someone asked on the forums and got an answer pretty quickly.

Actually it is false advertising if the information pertaining to a specific transaction is not explained at the time of the transaction or the information is not made readily available to the customer before they buy said product.
Do you see an updated FAQ or buy page?

Do you see a link provided on the page sending the customer directly to the statement clarifying the bundle as not really a bundle for existing accounts?

If those are not there, and the page still says INCLUDES, with no clarification about the product.

then it is, in fact
False Advertising.

At this point and time, they need to
A. Acknowledge they kittened up.
B. Fix the language
C. Refund people that bought it under the pretense they are getting a bundle

Jongi.7612:

Solori.6025:

Rai.9625:

Cambeleg.7632:

Rai.9625:

You just said you wanted to be treated the same/get the same. That’s all. And THAT you can get, new acc incl. exp.
That is what newcomers get. They don’t get an existing Acc and then the Exp…

You said the exactly same thing as me and saying I’m wrong. That is quite illogical for me. New player gets new acc, new gw2 new hot. You can too. That is all.

True is, it isn’t preferred and I can understand that.

Though you ‘demand’ or ‘wish’ to get something similar, but not the same. You want something else as a bonus, promotion, because you are a veteran, no?

I’ll explain it easier, Rai:

You have a [Banana] since two years ago. Anet comes and offers a bundle that contains an [Apple] and a [Banana] for same price that you bought your old [Banana]. You want the [Apple], but you can’t buy it without the [Banana], so you tell “good, in this case, I want the full pack”. Anet replies then: “if you already had a [Banana], you only get the [Apple]. You’ll have to save the old [Banana] and grab the new [Banana] since the [Apple] is bound”.

Now tell me, Rai: only ‘cos you already had a [Banana] since two years ago, you have less right to have a new [Banana] ’cos it’s included in the bundle? Or if you don’t get the [Banana], you’d not ask for something with equal value as compensation for this loss in the purchase?

That is not how it is: You can have more than one Account.
But I admit it sucks that the offer is not the best for me. I can decide between getting a new banana and apple… and save my old banana too, but I can only make one banana apple smoothie.
And I would prefer my ripened Banana for that, but wouldn’t get an additional banana for it. Such is the nature of promotional gifts.

It’s not a gift.
No where does it say ( Only new accounts get the base game free.) OR
As a gift we included the base game for free only for new players
ON THE BUY PAGE OR FAQ

It in fact says
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

This is the definition of includes.

Include-comprise or contain as part of a whole.

I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand that regardless of whether you OWN or DO NOT OWN the base game.

50$ gets you/is supposed to get you BOTH
by the definition and wording of this sale.

Period.

Actually ANet did say that only new players get it if you read their forum post on the matter. Thats why earlier I said its a misunderstanding and that if they fixed the information under the package deals when you go to buy HoT what you just said would of never of came up.

They have had 3-4 days now to fix it?
Like the stealth edited the FAQ a couple of days ago.

If it is intended for this not to be a bundle, they are advertising this falsely and that is a legal no no.
If they want this bundle only for new players and it’s supposed to be a gift for them, they could have AT ANY POINT edited the language to not be ambiguous or false.

But they have not.

They have no link on the buy page for any type of clarification on the matter also.

The simple fact is. They haven’t
They are still advertising this product as a bundle, and still not delivering on this bundle.

This is the issue. Something that has gone over the heads of the knights, instead of telling people to wait and see, try sending in a ticket and asking anet to change the page. Then all they will have to do is refund the people that bought this under the pretense they were getting a bundle.
The end.

Straylight.7529:

Astralporing.1957:

Straylight.7529:

The core game itself is free for new players.

No, it is not. If a new player wants to buy a core game, the only option (as per Anet’s pricing) is to shell out $50 or more. If you have to pay money to get something, it isn’t free.

Of course they have to pay something. They pay for the expansion. They get the core game as a bonus for FREE. Everything is not free. The core game is FREE. Got it now?

yolo swaggins.2570:

Because no matter what happens that gap in bought content is still going to be there?

If you’d rather be a new player you can be a new player anytime you want.

No it isn’t
It’s a bundle.

Go find the definition of Include.

Rai.9625:

Cambeleg.7632:

Rai.9625:

You just said you wanted to be treated the same/get the same. That’s all. And THAT you can get, new acc incl. exp.
That is what newcomers get. They don’t get an existing Acc and then the Exp…

You said the exactly same thing as me and saying I’m wrong. That is quite illogical for me. New player gets new acc, new gw2 new hot. You can too. That is all.

True is, it isn’t preferred and I can understand that.

Though you ‘demand’ or ‘wish’ to get something similar, but not the same. You want something else as a bonus, promotion, because you are a veteran, no?

I’ll explain it easier, Rai:

You have a [Banana] since two years ago. Anet comes and offers a bundle that contains an [Apple] and a [Banana] for same price that you bought your old [Banana]. You want the [Apple], but you can’t buy it without the [Banana], so you tell “good, in this case, I want the full pack”. Anet replies then: “if you already had a [Banana], you only get the [Apple]. You’ll have to save the old [Banana] and grab the new [Banana] since the [Apple] is bound”.

Now tell me, Rai: only ‘cos you already had a [Banana] since two years ago, you have less right to have a new [Banana] ’cos it’s included in the bundle? Or if you don’t get the [Banana], you’d not ask for something with equal value as compensation for this loss in the purchase?

That is not how it is: You can have more than one Account.
But I admit it sucks that the offer is not the best for me. I can decide between getting a new banana and apple… and save my old banana too, but I can only make one banana apple smoothie.
And I would prefer my ripened Banana for that, but wouldn’t get an additional banana for it. Such is the nature of promotional gifts.

It’s not a gift.
No where does it say ( Only new accounts get the base game free.) OR
As a gift we included the base game for free only for new players
ON THE BUY PAGE OR FAQ

It in fact says
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)

This is the definition of includes.

Include-comprise or contain as part of a whole.

I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand that regardless of whether you OWN or DO NOT OWN the base game.

50$ gets you/is supposed to get you BOTH
by the definition and wording of this sale.

Period.

Wolfey.3407:

Hey that $10 people are complaining about can buy almost two cups of coffee from Starbucks.

Obviously you have never had a double expresso mocha whipped caramel chocolate pumpkin cappuccino venti.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Seriously. I don’t think we’ve reached Dead Sea levels of eye-searing, fish-killing, meat-preserving crusty brine yet.

I just counted – there are currently four threads on the front page of this board talking about something other than how immensely pants-bruised people are over the expansion pricing, and this despite a huge E3 showing by ArenaNet and something like eleven hundred blog articles on guild halls, a feature people have been demanding info on since forever ago. This is up from two non-pricing threads the last time I counted.

I get it. You guys are cheesed. Even the gaming news sites have all picked up on how incredibly rustled your collective jimmies are. I fail to see why this brouhaha is such a thing – if you figure fifty bucks, or a hundred bucks, or whatever, is too much to ask? Then don’t pay it. Funnily enough, this conclusion is what all the news site articles I read which bothered to venture an opinion came to as well. The stink is ridiculous, it reflects poorly on “the friendliest, most welcoming MMO playerbase in gaming”, and frankly there’s other crap to talk about.

Either ArenaNet fixes it and they sell preorders, they don’t fix it and don’t sell preorders and thus learn their lesson, or they don’t fix it, they do sell preorders, and clearly it’s not as big a deal as you guys are all making it out to be. Especially when you all know this was Marketing’s brilliant idea and has absolutely nothing to do with the actual dev-side folks you’re all threatening repeatedly.

I’m not telling you to buy or not buy Heart of Thorns. I’m not telling you that you’re entitled greedy jerks, or conversely that you’re being an idiot ArenaNet fanboy too stupid to know better. I don’t care – what you do with your money is on you, what I do with mine is on me, and there’s no reason for either of us to have any opinion on what the other decides.

What I’m saying is that you folks have made the MechWarrior Online forums – a collection of bittervets, salt miners, crusty codgers, and dev-hating megatrolls which cannot be equaled this side of League of Legends – look like a reasonable and respectful community.

I honestly did not think that was possible.

You’re embarrassing the Torment out of yourselves, folks. The ludicrous angstsplosion in this house is a complete and utter turn-off, and if I were an ArenaNet developer I wouldn’t want to talk to a bunch of ragecanoes either.

Settle down. The world is not ending. The sky is not falling. ArenaNet is not the Devil. Keep calm and talk about guild halls already, would ya?

Are you seriously suggesting that people
A. Stop telling anet they are upset
B. Excuse anet for shady business practices and
C. Be happy with everything that is wrong with this preorder fiasco and ignore the issue?

You may as well ask people to be happy with being stabbed in the liver.

Amroth.2170:

jacobocaj.7698:

To make things worse, as it currently stands if you buy a copy of HoT and you already own the base game, you do not actually get another CD-key for the base game! So you’re already getting a deal worse than the deal ANET claims to be making with you

This is a really succinct point and I think crucial to why so many of us are upset. Essentially two people could by the same package: one new player and one veteran player, but each will receive different amounts of content… for the exact same price. This is patently unfair, and asking those of us who already have the game to move on and “nothing to see here” with excuses about how the game is F2P and how much content we all received and to be more grateful only obfuscates this point: two different people will pay $50 for the same package and receive different things.

It just boggles my mind that they’re going to get away with that, and there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s astonishing the level of arrogance, really.

I’m pretty sure that’s false advertisement. Especially when it says includes.
Listing a product bundle then not delivering the full bundle I believe falls under fraud also.

JUN YANG.4328:

yes. but they dont participate their operation.

Solori.6025:

JUN YANG.4328:

Hey guys

i dont know what the decision Anet will made. but i already reported the situation to NCsoft. see if they can Investigate and get involved.

if you guys feel the same way please support.

Thanks

Bro…..
You know ncsoft owns anet right….they acquired the studio back in like 2002…
If anything most of the decisions probably came from them in the first place…

Uhhh yes they do. They are A-nets parent company. You don’t let a company you own do things without your approval.
That’s basic business 101

JUN YANG.4328:

Hey guys

i dont know what the decision Anet will made. but i already reported the situation to NCsoft. see if they can Investigate and get involved.

if you guys feel the same way please support.

Thanks

Bro…..
You know ncsoft owns anet right….they acquired the studio back in like 2002…
If anything most of the decisions probably came from them in the first place…

My problem is they are not delivering on the items they included. I don’t care about character slots or new players.
If you sell an item in a bundle you need to deliver ALL items in that bundle. Not half of it. And if you can’t you need to offer something else to the customer, because you didn’t deliver what you advertised.

1. Telling people not to be angry or voice there frustration is like telling the american government to be 100% honest. It will never happen.
2. Don’t read the negativity.
3. Preorder the game. And be happy with your decision.

P.S. on the off chance this works cause of some hidden power of yours, please use said power on everyone who complains about thief and mesmer..

briggah.7910:

Solori.6025:

briggah.7910:

Solori.6025:

I don’t know how its hard to understand the frustration of others.

Maybe its because frustrated people usually say stuff that really makes no sense since they only see it their way instead of seeing the big picture?

I get frustrated as do so many people. I say things out of frustration. Once I actually stop and think, I usually say in my head “wow that was silly of me to get so frustrated over something like that”

You have the right to be frustrated but most people that post out of frustration never see the big picture.

So many are still stuck on not getting something free because new players are getting a freebie. Some are stuck on the price and you have every right to be since everyone doesn’t have the same budget. Some are still stuck on not getting a free character slot when the game starts you with 5 and has 8 professions to begin with.

The big picture I see it as Anet wants to bring in more players into this game. A game needs players to continue to grow. Without players it will most likely die. Yes people will leave this game but I’d put money on that they will gain a lot more players then those that actually do leave.

Only time will tell. You can stick around and help this game grow even more or you can leave and be replaced by someone else who will. It is your choice.

That response did nothing to address the concern or reason why some people are angry,and honestly, you don’t have the ability or knowledge to do so. I do agree, complaining for the price is silly, complaining about new players coming into the game is silly.

It is NOT silly to expect a product that is advertised to be delivered.
It is NOT silly to expect some type of compensation for an item that can’t be delivered, even though it was advertised to be included.
It is also not silly to upgrade people that bought the core game 3-4 months to at least a standard edition of HoT. Those players especially deserve to be compensated.

I quoted you on you asking “I don’t know how its hard to understand the frustration of others.”

Pretty sure I made it clear that it is hard to understand the frustration of others. Also you sound pretty frustrated and to be honest, not really understanding you.

Are you a new or veteran players? Seeing as you think people who bought the game 2 – 3 months ago should be compensated, I’d guess that’s when you bought the game. If you are a veteran player let those people speak for themselves. Sounds like you heard a complaint and jumped on the complaint bandwagon.

Not sure how much the game was 2 – 3 months ago but I’ve seen it for $10. You mean to tell me they didn’t get $10 out of this game for those 2 – 3 months when a sub fee game would cost $10 per month? TBH not sure what sub fee games cost now a days.. Gave those up when FFXIV burned me.

You are still sidestepping the problem, asking an irrelevant question doesn’t make the problem go away. I am, personally a vet, I am also the one that paid for my friends core game. So no, I am not on the complaint bandwagon, but thank you for deciding it was necessary to address my play history instead of an actual completely valid concern.
Secondly, timeplayed has no relevancy and doesn’t excuse shady or bad business practices.

Do these responses sound frustrating to you because I don’t agree with you? I’m curious. Can you quote what I have typed that sounds like itsfrom someone frustrated or upset?

briggah.7910:

Solori.6025:

I don’t know how its hard to understand the frustration of others.

Maybe its because frustrated people usually say stuff that really makes no sense since they only see it their way instead of seeing the big picture?

I get frustrated as do so many people. I say things out of frustration. Once I actually stop and think, I usually say in my head “wow that was silly of me to get so frustrated over something like that”

You have the right to be frustrated but most people that post out of frustration never see the big picture.

So many are still stuck on not getting something free because new players are getting a freebie. Some are stuck on the price and you have every right to be since everyone doesn’t have the same budget. Some are still stuck on not getting a free character slot when the game starts you with 5 and has 8 professions to begin with.

The big picture I see it as Anet wants to bring in more players into this game. A game needs players to continue to grow. Without players it will most likely die. Yes people will leave this game but I’d put money on that they will gain a lot more players then those that actually do leave.

Only time will tell. You can stick around and help this game grow even more or you can leave and be replaced by someone else who will. It is your choice.

That response did nothing to address the concern or reason why some people are angry,and honestly, you don’t have the ability or knowledge to do so. I do agree, complaining for the price is silly, complaining about new players coming into the game is silly.

It is NOT silly to expect a product that is advertised to be delivered.
It is NOT silly to expect some type of compensation for an item that can’t be delivered, even though it was advertised to be included.
It is also not silly to upgrade people that bought the core game 3-4 months to at least a standard edition of HoT. Those players especially deserve to be compensated.

Entenkommando.5208:

MashMash.1645:

Entenkommando.5208:

If you had fun with the game already and you are sure that 50$ will bring you hundreds of hours of fun, go ahead and preorder.

It’s not about what you get, it’s about what you will get in the future.

How can we be sure though? They have released so little info on what content we are getting, that you are gambling at this point in time.

Waiting till nearer release loses you nothing, other than guaranteed beta access. If they eventually reveal tons of content and zones, which I hope happens, grab it then and you can be satisfied you’ll get value for money.

Of course you don’t lose anything when waiting.
But you can also show A-Net that you trust them and that you had so much fun in the first game that you willingly pay the money because the time-price-ratio was more than superb.

The question shouldn’t be if there is a reason to trust them, but rather if there is a reason not to trust them if you look in the past.

Because failing to deliver on promises, and very recent shady business practices is enough reason for me NOT to trust them. I will join the flock of rational customers and wait for more information AND an official release date.
I’m done trying to defend anets choices, they need to convince us this is worth preordering and buying on release