Guild Wars 2

Nier.8741:

The sad part is, even though this is supposed to be a troll thread that mimics the format of my other thread, what the OP is saying is true.

Guardian and Mesmer are like one in the same, they really never took skill to begin with because of attack while evading (in this case block spamming/blind spamming) mechanics XD

……I hate you right now….

I’m goin to bed..I can’t..

TheFamster.7806:

1. What class are you?
2. What gear set are you running?

Generally the playstyle of a mesmer hasn’t changed.

Pretty much if you had trouble with Lockdown before, your gonna have trouble with lockdown now. It’s basically the same build, same playstyle.
The thing that has changed is now the damage across the board for all classes is now higher.

So if you were built squishy then, you may want to change that now until you get used to fighting a mes.

I will say that evasion spam classes do well vs mantra spammers, they generally don’t know when to correctly use the mantra.
Condition’s also do well if you know how and what to dodge, and if you have access to burst condi.
Ele and Guard do very well because damage and burning.
A necro can do well as both a bunker and zerk.
Engies can lol 1 shot anyone from stealth ( probably working as intended btw)
a class that can stealth burst also does well if they get the drop.
And Real Bunkers can survive the burst.
AoE is still a thing.

p.s. Most mesmer’s take PU with their shatters. So they are actually gonna be stealthed for 6 seconds with decoy and torch 4, and 10 seconds with mass invis.

I play ele (cele and s/f), warrior, guardian and engi. and I never had trouble with interrupt memsers before. Even PU back then was no trouble for me as it was just a patient game of wearing each other down. Like I mentioned I had no trouble with mesmers of all kinds before June 23rd. I tried every spect but none helps against daze mantra mesmers (could be interrupts or not since the trait revamp). The problem I face is the unavoidable stun that will eventually wear me down or burst me instantly no matter what I do or play.

….Try a burn Guardian or ele (3-5k burn is not fun or a joke)

Rampage for war with berserkers power is an i win button ( kinda like lich)

Engi has a boss condi spec that can survive when played well.
OR
you can grab nades, grab the nade trait, grab some stealth and one shot people

TheFamster.7806:

Before the June 23rd patch, it wasn’t very difficult to kill most mesmers. While the great ones usually owned me no matter what profession/build I played I felt like my loss was justified because I was outplayed. I know how and when to dodge the mirror blade and gs4 as well as sword 3 and not to walk into chaos storm. I know the cd on torch 4 is 30 seconds and the mesmer gets revealed after 3 seconds of stealth. I know how to distinguish the animation of moa and mass invisibility, and I know mesmers do remove boons including stability as well as use their shatter skills for their burst. I also know that stealth burst are completely fair game since they are predictable. I know how to distinguish real mesmer from its clones.

I am familiar with interrupt/shatter mesmers prepatch of June 23rd. In fact I strongly advocated mesmers to be buffed such as giving condi clear based on number of illusions they have and many other ways. But with their daze mantra which leads to stun if they do trait it feels as if I am punished for not random dodging. If I see a mirror blade, mesmer’s animations, leaping clones, and phantasm berserker, I will dodge most of the times. However with the daze mantra, I am constantly stun locked and then bursted. And there is no way to tell if a memser will cast mantra due to particle effects and stealth.

Now stealth is a fine game, I have no problem with that. But dazing mantra that also stunlocks me into undodgeable state, and F3 on mesmers, seems impossible for almost any class to actually use dodge against memsers. My stunbreakers are usually on 30+ sec cd, and invul skills have even longer cooldown. Also any form of stability is removed instantly as mesmers have options to remove boons in many ways.

Post patch of June 23rd, I have no idea how to dodge stunlock burst other than hoping that my teleports are always on cool down. Stun is suppose to be a powerful tool that should set up bursts like those, and I understand the role, however a class having so much access to stuns that literally prevents people from reacting even the most basic way seems a little out of the line.

1. What class are you?
2. What gear set are you running?

Generally the playstyle of a mesmer hasn’t changed.

Pretty much if you had trouble with Lockdown before, your gonna have trouble with lockdown now. It’s basically the same build, same playstyle.
The thing that has changed is now the damage across the board for all classes is now higher.

So if you were built squishy then, you may want to change that now until you get used to fighting a mes.

I will say that evasion spam classes do well vs mantra spammers, they generally don’t know when to correctly use the mantra.
Condition’s also do well if you know how and what to dodge, and if you have access to burst condi.
Ele and Guard do very well because damage and burning.
A necro can do well as both a bunker and zerk.
Engies can lol 1 shot anyone from stealth ( probably working as intended btw)
a class that can stealth burst also does well if they get the drop.
And Real Bunkers can survive the burst.
AoE is still a thing.

p.s. Most mesmer’s take PU with their shatters. So they are actually gonna be stealthed for 6 seconds with decoy and torch 4, and 10 seconds with mass invis.

Josh XT.6053:

Anyone hoping that it is working as intended is lazy and needs to learn how to play the game.

Like I said, I’ll play my full zerk engineer and one shot people until enough people complain about this and Anet fixes it. They can change world boss HP (because that is important), but allowing people to be one shotted in WvW and PvP is no big deal I suppose. #PvE #Priorities #Anet

In other news Anet could have disabled this trait but they haven’t…
Maybe it is intended?
#stirring the pot#nadeinstakill

DavyMcB.1603:

Seems like a hard code problem. Things like this would never last for a week (even hours). It’s probably more than just switch pierce mode on and off.

If you switch the trait, the grenades dont pierce.

So they could very well just disable the trait if it’s working like the symbolic avenger.
But they haven’t.

So I’m going to guess this is working as intended.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

3 kit condi pistol+shield engineer is amazing. No grenades needed. Maybe you should try looking outside your little grenade box for builds that don’t need the grenade bug.

But is it truly a bug?

Based on This post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Update-Symbolic-Avenger-Trait

Gaile Gray.6029:

Due to its current unintended behavior, the Symbolic Avenger trait has been temporarily disabled until the next scheduled release. If you were using this trait, we suggest you select a different one until the trait is re-enabled.

A-net has the ability to disable a trait that is working in an unintended fashion,

Engineers haven’t had this trait disabled.

Could it be that maybe this might be working as intended and they haven’t updated the skill information?

So I just want to point this out.

Anet disabled a trait for guardians because it was working in an unintended fashion..

Guess what hasn’t happened to engineers.

Bruh…..why?

/15 whys

Necrotize.2974:

Darknicrofia.2604:

horrible copy/paste, how does blocks bait dodges?

Obviously it baits dodges so that you don’t accidentally auto attack into a block and get burned.

^

You are all supposed to be hostile..
I am dissappoint :I

And then RNgesus said.

“LIGHTING BOLT’

then turned all you’re exotic gear into salt

StickerHappy.8052:

Hire more balance devs. So Balance patches can come out faster.

And,, maybe just maybe, have a bigger diversity of ideas.

PTS

Seriously I can’t think of a good AAA game that doesn’t have a test server.

DaShi.1368:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

The thing about this thread.. Is that it’s mostly talking about 1v1s, is filled with over exaggerations, and is only talking about one specific build.

…And it comes from a non-Mesmer.

/two-finger clap

Also, you could make a thread like this for any class and get just as much attention. I’m actually surprised that a thread that is clearly designed to engage in and attract hostility is still open.

I tried it….I don’t see hostilities yet :I

I don’t understand why people think this class is hard. During launch, everyone agreed that Guadian was broken. That hasn’t changed today and even in the Cele meta, it was only UP because the Cele classes were just as easy and more effective to play.

Now lets talk about mechanics. For starters? Guardian has so many things that can bait/punish dodges. BURNING, Blocks, Symbols ,Knockbacks. ALL of those baits/punishes dodges easy. And guess what? Most of what Guardian can do that is threatening is INSTANT CAST. That’s why if I random dodge and you don’t do anything crazy, I will die in the next few seconds because instant cast mechanics from Guardian take no skill to land.

Now the next problem? They can do all of these things while spamming Blocks and Burning

Meditation plays? That’s just rotation awareness, ANYONE can apply rotation awareness to all class. It’s not something relevant to Guardians only. Meditation plays just make rotations EASIER. In which case, Guardian is an easy class and I rest my case.

Guardian isn’t hard to play people. Even [Inset good Guardian player here] is realistically just getting carried by easy mechanics. Decent player and all but my point is Guardian can actually carry bad players because of how easy they bait dodges for no effort. NOW even Elementalist can’t really counter a Guardian 1v1.

TL;DR Guardian is and was always an easy class even when Elementalist countered them. The only time Guardian will EVER be a skill-based class is if their Blocks get cut in half and they get something extremely telegraphed + rewarding.

P.S.
I wonder if I should have made this about engineer instead :I

DaShi.1368:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

The thing about this thread.. Is that it’s mostly talking about 1v1s, is filled with over exaggerations, and is only talking about one specific build.

…And it comes from a non-Mesmer.

/two-finger clap

Also, you could make a thread like this for any class and get just as much attention. I’m actually surprised that a thread that is clearly designed to engage in and attract hostility is still open.

….I’m so gonna try it. BRB

Morwath.9817:

jportell.2197:

Mesmer is finally able to compete for a spot on a team, everyone’s losing their minds. Most teams still run double ele, thief, warrior (zerker now), and engi…. nobody cares.

Mesmers are part of top teams since… 8 months minimum?

So I went back and looked for the teams that placed in the TOL world series.

Maybe I missed the memo, cause I didnt see mesmer in every team.

Arkitech.9158:

Solori.6025:

Arkitech.9158:

Can we get Revealed time normalized in PvE and PvP?
Having it at 4 secs in sPvP is probably the main reason I can never stick with it. I can get used to it after a few games but having to go through that every time I hop into PvP is frustrating. I play WvW primarily and sPvP (casually) on the side, mainly because of this split.

Also the main reason the thread is a question is because many things are being normalized during the recent patch. I’m not sure if everything is, but a lot of things are. I’m curious if this is on the list.

On a final note, I want anyone who views this thread to say whether they like the 4 sec reveal in sPvP or not. Like if you play a stealth class or not, does the 4 sec reveal make the game more fun for you? less fun? no effect? don’t care? I would really like to know the general consensus on this subject.

http://strawpoll.me/4738561

thanks for your time

tl;dr Set Reveal debuff in sPvP back to 3 seconds. please vote for what you would like to see (and reply to the thread with your thoughts so other people can see this thread too please).

They had revealed that way and everyone cried.

I highly doubt they will put revealed back to 3 seconds. Blame everyone who didn’t know how to not panic when someone stealthed.

I have been playing since launch, I was around when they made the reveal change. I do not remember people complaining about reveal time before they changed it. I do, however, remember people complaining after they changed it. I also know several people who rage quit the game because of the change, then more people who rage quit because of it being split. This is only my personal experience, though. So I am probably mistaken as I am only one person.

Before they changed it we saw the

“Thieves stealth too much”
Thieves can go stealth too often"
“Can’t stop thief from stealthing so often”

Remember those?

Pepperi…..I mean..

I remember.

Besetment.9187:

Mesmers have never been bottom of the food chain. Nowhere near it.

Tpvp meta actually proves this statement false.

A lot of top teams don’t make use of mesmer because the thief was able to basically plus one and back cap better.
While a mesmer was only ever useful for portal.
I can’t really remember the last time a mesmer was in the meta and was on equal footing to a thief as far as +1’ing a fight or being used as anything OTHER than a portal bot.
From the first TOL I remember someone made a pole of what professions were picked between the teams and mesmer, while not at the very bottom was no where near the top, and I believe very VERY few teams actually made it towards the finals with a mesmer in the team comp ( not talking about helseth so don’t bring him up).

Arkitech.9158:

Can we get Revealed time normalized in PvE and PvP?
Having it at 4 secs in sPvP is probably the main reason I can never stick with it. I can get used to it after a few games but having to go through that every time I hop into PvP is frustrating. I play WvW primarily and sPvP (casually) on the side, mainly because of this split.

Also the main reason the thread is a question is because many things are being normalized during the recent patch. I’m not sure if everything is, but a lot of things are. I’m curious if this is on the list.

On a final note, I want anyone who views this thread to say whether they like the 4 sec reveal in sPvP or not. Like if you play a stealth class or not, does the 4 sec reveal make the game more fun for you? less fun? no effect? don’t care? I would really like to know the general consensus on this subject.

http://strawpoll.me/4738561

thanks for your time

tl;dr Set Reveal debuff in sPvP back to 3 seconds. please vote for what you would like to see (and reply to the thread with your thoughts so other people can see this thread too please).

They had revealed that way and everyone cried.

I highly doubt they will put revealed back to 3 seconds. Blame everyone who didn’t know how to not panic when someone stealthed.

Malchior.5732:

Solori.6025:

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

Well, lets be fair here.
I dodge the Warrior’s CC skills, he goes into Rampage and now I have to dodge 3 more CCs, not including the Auto-Attack chain that still deals decent damage.
Comparing this to a Necro’s Lich form that is really only used for the Auto-Attack is a bit inaccurate.
The latter does insane damage, but is far more vulnerable(less Stability, only CC on #3, less mobile, etc.) while the former can do 2 -> 5 -> 4 -> 111 and there’s very little you can do if you get hit by any of the first three moves outside of popping Stun Breakers, which you might have used because you were getting CC-chained by the Warrior’s other skills :L

I’m not calling it OP, but it’s a little unreasonable to deal with sometimes. At least Lich has a projectile I can more easily defend against(LoS, Swirling Winds, Reflects, etc.) and mostly just that.

Both of them pulse stability, so I don’t understand the less stability arguement.

The arguement one has more buttons is also pretty bad when the AA from lich does upward of 7-8k and can proc fire and air.

You only have 2 dodges.

One of them is more mobile true, but one of them isn’t ranged either.
At least with the warrior staying out of range you can waste rampage, with Lich it’s be a class with reflects equipped or die?
Understandable that you notice the CC’s but you can in no way say one is better than the other when one ONLY needs an AA to finish you off in two hits from range.

P.S.
If you’re on an elementalist why dont you just blink away?
OR arcane shield…..or obsidian flesh……or vapor form……or tornado blind…….or armor of earth……or FG 3-4……

NeXeD.3042:

Vieux P.1238:

DavyMcB.1603:

1. Mes can rip your boons better now compared to pre patch. A decent rupt mes will anticipate this.
2. Every time mes dazes you you get 5 stacks of vulner, 3 more if interrupted
3. The mes also get +5 might stacks for every interrupt. With rune of strength, if you don’t give a frik and keep ignoring the interrupt, you will be punish harder and harder for every consecutive interrupt.
4. If a rupt mes is at 100% ready state and he intends to completely deny your rez. You will be DENIED. because that’s what the build is all about.

The “zomg button mashing buffs freak hit and forget” was dead with the patch.

Now adjust.

Fyi, All of does abilities you mentioning, mesmer could do before pre patch. In fact, lots of your numbers are wrong. Stacks of vuln can go up to 25. On average 15 to 20. Riping your boons at the same time. Same as pre-patch. Might, same as pre-patch. Nothing changed in that aspect.

so your complaining now? about something that already pre existed before?
pffff….Learn & adapt & get some skill’s

He wasn’t complaining.

the op was.

The sheer amount of interupts, stuns, dazes, and immobilizes seem to have gone up along with the damage increases.

The stuns have gone up. They moved a grandmaster to the adept tier.

But what the OP is describing is something that has happened even prepatch with the res denial.

DavyMcB.1603:

Rampage is supposed to be better than Lich in term of offense because it is melee. There is greater risk for meleeing. However, I do agree that the effectiveness spread between Rampage and Lich is way too wide. 1k+ (at the very least) auto attack damage with 4CCs of short CD is way too much.

Lich is a power mode, but Rampage is outright godmod (now that it also benefits from physical skill traits)

Not really, Both of them are strong in there own right, but I wouldnt call either god mode when you can simple move away, reflect, blind,dodge, invuln, use terrain, or kite.

Both have something strong. and both can be countered in pretty much the same ways.

What people have a problem with is that they get caught in these elites, panic, and die for it.
But then again I have been rolling on my necro and engi for the past couple of days.
So a lot of problems with things people see I haven’t been seeing.

Aegis Dominion.4708:

I think necros got some of the largest buffs from the patch. Conditions are insane, and their life force gaining traits are very annoying. They are proving to be some of the hardest professions to take down right now I think.

Yea I am seeing that.

Bunker necro is most certianly a thing.
Minion mancer is kinda silly in low tier.
Lich is back to its 2 shot glory
and those condies..those condies

I feel bad that I deleted my second necro now

Windwalker.7421:

Solori.6025:

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

Well this guy hit JS for 6.5k and BB for 6.5k, so 10-13k is being very conservative. ;-)

Oh nice, full zerk I’m guessing, sounds funny tbh

When they fix the grenade bug ( 3months from now) engineers will still have a way to 100-0 someone out of stealth in a few seconds.
Nice to know really

NIKJOLDBHORN.7315:

I ve not read all the comments here, but I think we ‘re talking about new patch mesms changes.
Who said mesms are not OP, I said : mesms are kitten OP.
I play mesmer as I play thief. With who say “thief, stealth, bla bla bla” now mesmers have more stealth than thieves… PU give them a random boons too, thing to not understimate.
Mind wrack deals more damage as well, and u can shatter every 10 second.
with a full zerk gear mesmers have a really high health, a thief can’t play with a full zerk gear cause he’ll has 11k health. MtD then, stun and daze together, instant cast, 1200 range, no time to recharge ( cause we all know that if you have the 2 mantra, the skills automatically recharge the 30 seconds). then reflection on every dodge. And this is the shatter one, without talk about the condition one…
Before the patch mesmer was a class, like thief, that you had to play as well, you could be suck as you could be the strongest. Now even a noob like me can play a mesmer!
So continue to say mesms is NOT OP…

3 things wrong.

1. If you can not play zerk thief when on these forums we have people complaining that backstab is basically 2 shotting them

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Maybe-Backstab-should-have-a-cool-down

Especially when you can get auto attacks for 4k.
YOU are the issue.

Thief can not be played mindlessly any more and it’s showing.

2. Their is not a function in game that allows the mesmer to have more access to stealth than a thief.
I can list 3 skills that have no CD that give the thief stealth that it can also rotate alone to keep itself stealth.
If you can’t figure that out with a thief then that is again your issue.

So for “mesmer having more stealth than a thief” that is 100% false.

3. Before patch anyone could play a thief and shut down anyother zerk class besides guard.
Zerk ele= thief bait
Zerk necro= LOL
Mesmer= hardcountered by thief in many situations
etc. etc.

you get my point.
No thief was not hard to play, to the point that I mostly spvp’d on the thief because it +1’d and roamed better.

Now other classes (that’s plural because it’s more than mes) can +1 or burst a target down.

Thieves actually need to play like assassins instead of blackpowder blind spam or dodge tanks.

Kinda like it was at launch when a thief and a mesmer were almost on equal footing.

Windwalker.7421:

Just to add one more build to the list of ridiculous Power-burst professions that very well can compete with the P-Shatter burst, I ran into a Rifle Engie earlier. We all know about Grenade Barrage, and he 100-1%ed me with that when he caught me from behind with all my stuff up, I managed to make a close getaway thanks to F4, Blink and Stealth. OK that’s broken and will surely be fixed.

However, ran into him shortly after and he pulled a combo (from Stealth!) and almost insta-gibbed me again. It was something like Jump Shot=>Blunderbuss and something else I forget, and each of the first two hits was over 6.5k, while the last hit for around 4k. All pretty much in the same instant and from Stealth.

This was without GB or obviously I’dda been dead as a doornail instantly.

Not crying here, just sayin’….we’re not the only ones with a 100-0 capability. (Granted, the insta stun does make a difference.)

Jump shot+ passive rocket followed by throwwrench to proc lighting then blunderbuss..
Usually that kills people for me. averages about 10-13k if everything crits and procs fire and air.

from anet

LOL u mad?

You know it fits with colins face :P

GoogleBrandon.5073:

MailMail.6534:

Wow! What a profound fairytale. And what ever happened to these mystical beings you call Rangers in current Tyrian day?!

In modern Tyria, the rumours of the hunters of the wild have spread. Some new adventurers even find themselves picking up a longbow and accompany themselves with a loyal brown bear, but in time it is said their enthusiasm disappates, as they discover the craftmanship of other professions for their adventures.

It is said that the mythical Rangers of old either hide, try to survive or seek refuge within communities where people lend their hands in order for them to seek shelter. The latter were assumed to usually pick up the way of advanced warfare, more than often releasing their loyal beastly companions for more sofisticated crafts. Those who try to survive were said to be the fierce lurking hunters ambushing adventurers, but it is said that they do not prevail for long, leaving less and less of the Rangers of old.
As for the rumours about the ones who hide; it is said that it is divided within two groups, where one has left the battlefield to grow old within the wild together with their companion – while the other group lurks deep away within the wilds, practicing their arts, for one day they will claim vengeance on those who stood to oppose them.

How much of these rumours are true is unknown, but a there is a prophecy amongst humans, called the “Circle of Viability”. The prophecy describes the end of one adventurers profession within the circle, only to switch out with another from outside. Some people claim that we have not seen the end of days for the Rangers, and that the prophecy will once more come to them, while others remain sceptical and say that their time has come to an end.

You need to make a story called the Circle of Viability for the PvP forums 0_0

EremiteAngel.9765:

Guys, you realize that this is a massive new patch that will be tweaked and tweaked again until and after the new elite specs are introduced in HoT right?

With such massive overhauls and changes, I think we can expect that certain classes will be overpowered or underpowered, certain skills will be brokenly OP or brokenly useless and the list goes on.

Give Anet time to fix and balance things.

Start complaining 1 year after HoT arrives.

Chances are, you won’t be complaining 1 year after HoT because Anet would then have the time to fix things.

That wont happen.
People want things to be back the way they were.

Regardless of what happens to other classes.
While I think some things are too strong.
The measure of nerfs to everything people want is absurd, but A-net( I think ) will cave to the masses and we will be back to 4 classes being in the tpvp meta, and everyone else on the sidelines.
We are basically repeating everything from launch.

Everyone complains.
Classes get nerfed into uselessness
We are stuck with a meta where 4 classes are actually good in the meta(with two being godmode) for 6months to a year

So I guess it’s going to be a pick your poison on which 4.

Frenk.5917:

So yeah. The reasons for which Lich-Form is balanced are that you can:

• block
• blind
• go out of sight
• reflect
• use the terrain properly

I agree with all of them. But then, then there’s Rampage. Transform elite skill on 120s CD, which does 20% more damage, has a tremendous amount of CCs and most importantly, it deals TONS of DPS.
By using rampage you gain: access to a lot of powerful control abilities, insane DPS, mobility, immunity to CCs, something very close to immunity to immobilize/chill/cripple, permswiftness and on top of that, tremendous HP pool. So, what are the counters?

Reflects? Nope!
CCs? Nope!
Soft CCs? Nope!
Dps? Nope!
Stab? Nope!
Well then, maybe I guess I can outrun him? You guess, it: nope!

Yes, I am asking for nerfs, in case you didn’t notice. I consider Rampage an “I-win” button. And what’s most irritating is that there are NO counters. Not even run. Just hope to survive thanks to aliens or something.

Everything you just listed,besides reflecting, can also counter rampage.

The majority of Lich forms damage is its AA which can, literally 2 shot people.
no what you want is to Nerf another elite so you have an easier time.

Laraley.7695:

Solori.6025:

Well, when you consider prepatch mesmer was almost always looked over in the meta for top tier..yea i think it was neccessary.

Besides that.
It brought it inline with what other classes can now do this patch.

People complain about mesmer doing high damage when I can jump on a zerk necro and two shot people from lich, or well bomb 3 people.

I agree mesmers deserved some buffs, but what happened is the fact they got overbuffed. There’s no counterplay to stealth burst, the stun, blind…On the other hand there is a counterplay to lich.

Im honestly curiois..

What counter play does lich have that don’t effect shatters also?

Laraley.7695:

Akikaze.1307:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Mogar.9216:

wow some kind of mesmer main… lol you are asking anet to nerf pretty much EVERY buff mesmer got in the patch

Kind of you to forget the like 15 old traits that all mesmers now get as passives. Amongst them Illusory Persona an incredibly good grandmaster trait.

15? Calm down with the exaggeration, I count 7.

Phantasm damage has been increased by 15%.
Mesmer skills that create bouncing projectiles will now have them bounce one additional time.
Reduced the recharge on glamour skills by 20%.
Using any shatter skill now creates the shatter effect on you as well by default.
Mantras now give 600 toughness while channeling them.
Manipulation skill range has been increased to 1200.
Pistol skills used by you and your illusions have had their range increased to 1200.

Don’t you think it’s a bit too much when you look at classes that got one trait or none as a baseline?

Well, when you consider prepatch mesmer was almost always looked over in the meta for top tier..yea i think it was neccessary.

Besides that.
It brought it inline with what other classes can now do this patch.

People complain about mesmer doing high damage when I can jump on a zerk necro and two shot people from lich, or well bomb 3 people.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Akikaze.1307:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Mogar.9216:

wow some kind of mesmer main… lol you are asking anet to nerf pretty much EVERY buff mesmer got in the patch

Kind of you to forget the like 15 old traits that all mesmers now get as passives. Amongst them Illusory Persona an incredibly good grandmaster trait.

15? Calm down with the exaggeration, I count 7.

Phantasm damage has been increased by 15%.
Mesmer skills that create bouncing projectiles will now have them bounce one additional time.
Reduced the recharge on glamour skills by 20%.
Using any shatter skill now creates the shatter effect on you as well by default.
Mantras now give 600 toughness while channeling them.
Manipulation skill range has been increased to 1200.
Pistol skills used by you and your illusions have had their range increased to 1200.

So just nerfing some OP trait won’t bring mesmer down anywhere near to the level before the patch.

Nice of you to admit you want your prepatch free kills.

Thief or ranger main?

Gav.1425:

Yeah yeah, post-patch chaos, burst meta, etc. This isn’t a qq thread or a nerf thread. I play all classes so I try to not to have a bias.

The real issue with this crazy burst meta is that the bursting classes are mainly abusing instant cast skills (medi guard bomb, scepter ele bomb, shatter bomb, etc). At least with a lich 2 or 3-shotting you, you have a chance to dodge some hits.

Is insta burst builds what we want the meta to be?

Discuss.

(Yeah yeah 100 nades is broken, we know).

Wait Wait..

“At Least with LICH”

Sorry..When your AA does stupid amounts of damage to 2-3 shot someone
YOU CANT
suggest nerfs
WITHOUT suggesting nerfs to yourself also.

Damage everywhere is high.
and it’s monday

If we don’t see some type of fix today.
I’m going to take everything as a working as intended, and this is the new direction we are goin

Evilek.5690:

Btw, maybe start post combat log screen no this table.This table shows damage to the "living"+"down mode" player.Players will receive more than 50% of that damage in down mode and this table dont show all DMG.

Are you really trying to sit here and defend passive burning procs for 3-4k?

Good luck bro

You are gonna need that and a flame shield army

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ll keep saying it. Mesmers got overbuffed. They deserved buffs, they had a lot of bugs. But they got overbuffed.

Said the necro that spams passive condis?

CoraxRnR.5742:

Sup yo, main Mesmer for a long time here, ( basically since Prophecies, mostly GvG/AoH back in the old days )

Sorry, I do hate it when people start off with “mesmer main here” When all of a sudden mesmers become viable.
Then start proposing nerfs.
Like where were you 2 years ago? when mesmer was second best to everyone else.

1. Confounding Suggestions
That trait is strong, freakish strong to be totally honest and needs to be shaved. Emphasis lies on shaved here, not destroyed. In a perfect world it would happen gradually.
Proposed change: Raise the ICD to 10s to weaken the synergy with the mantra AND let the stun only proc on an interrupt. This way the trait will stay strong because you can still interrupt AAs ( Spamming those is a problem that could be held in check by CS ) but will have counterplay, for example cancelling telegraphed skills either through stowing or dodge, in addition the Mesmer won’t be able to spam the mantra charge off CD because he won’t get the stun.

Sure, I agree put an ICD on it.
But that is IMO not the one that needs an ICD.
I would actually put a CD on PB instead. But that’s just me.
Right now, it’s too soon to tell.

2. That minor in Duelling that basically gives you a 100% fury uptime
Don’t get me wrong, I love having access to fury without a) Staff clones, b) warriors and c) Thrill of the Crime, but I personally think that 100% uptime is a bit too strong.
Proposed change: Again raising the ICD to 10s, that’ll still net you a 50% uptime ( coming from you alone, that is ) and will reduce the window in which the Mesmer can hope for the magical perfect burst.

I disagree,
This trait puts us in line with the classes that get 100% crit chances on there most powerful skills OR perma fury like thieves who can still 100-0 a glass mes.

But right now, It’s too soon to tell when everyone is able to do absurd damage with or without fury.

3. Prismatic Understanding
I’ll be short here: I personally strongly dislike this trait because it encourages camping in stealth ( insert “U don’t say” ) and that’s, imo, neither healthy nor fun. My biggest problem is that it transforms the Mesmer kinda into one of the celestial bruisers ( minus the ability to contest, I know. Could still be a too potent farpoint aggressor. ) from the last meta with the difference that, with the raised basestats, they still hit like a massive truck of illusionary bricks. I could rant more, but..
Proposed change: Either reduce the extended stealth duration to 75% or even 50% OR extend the revealed debuff from 4s to 5 or even 6s when this trait is taken. Maybe both, not so sure because I never specced into Chaos for this trait.

6 second stealth too strong?
Compared to a class that can stealth at will every 3-4 seconds.

I understand people don’t like stealth as a whole. But if you nerf stealth for one, you should do it for all.
Put the personal dislike away.
A stealthed enemy isn’t doing damage, and if people are too dumb to kill phantasm’s thats on them.

4. Blinding Dissipation
Love that trait because it adds a lot of reaction-based counterplay.
Proposed change: Just fix it, the blind shouldn’t proc if a target is evading. One could argue for ICD, but I wouldn’t go that far for now.

I agree, a 5 second ICD would put it in line with other “on X” traits

5. Harmonious Mantras
I actually don’t know that much about the trait, but it seems to be becoming meta ( or at least a viable alternative ) for mesmers instead of DE since you are able to spam the healing mantra.
Proposed change: Don’t really know as I have not been playing with it, and I hate making uneducated suggestions. For the sake of an argument maybe, just maybe, shave 1% off of the extra 4% dmg ( max. 5 stacks equals a hefty 20% increase in dmg ), but I honestly don’t know. Maybe don’t change it at all.

I would suggest you play a mantra build competitively first.
After the nerf to mantra support, I don’t think it would be wise to nerf an already niche build into uselessness again.

6. The whole Inspiration line
Again, haven’t played with it. But I feel there might be something wrong if you’re able to spec into a relatively strong defensive/selfsustaining traitline and still do nearly as much damage as, for example, a Dom/Duel/Illu Shatter.
Proposed change: This time I’m totally gonna hold back because I don’t know kitten about playing with it.

I disagree.
The entire inspiration line is kinda lackluster when compared to the bonuses you get from dom, dueling, illusions, or chaos

Nerfing this line puts it back to prepatch status of uselessness or a very specific niche.
Try playing inspiration
Comparing it’s bonuses and grand master to the others.

PistolWhip.2697:

Solori.6025:

PistolWhip.2697:

It really is weird they made Mortar AA priority over fixing this hilariously opaque issue.

Could it be it is much harder to fix then anyone here realises? Maybe it isn’t that they aren’t fixing it, maybe they just don’t know how yet?

I doubt that.
See they nerf things like mesmer powerblock and mantra healing.

If their coding allows them to make kneejerk balancing and bug fixes. Then this should have been fixed 2 days ago.
I doubt that they are so incompetent as to make coding so obscure for one and not the other.

Those were nerfs. Nerfs are different to fixes, so I am sure the coding there was in working order and all they had to do was change values.

.

Bug Fixes:

Mesmer
Chaotic Dampening: Reduced the recharge reduction percent of staff skills per pulse of chaos armor from 5% to 2%.
Power Block: Reduced the damage on interrupt by 17%.

PistolWhip.2697:

Solori.6025:

PistolWhip.2697:

It really is weird they made Mortar AA priority over fixing this hilariously opaque issue.

Could it be it is much harder to fix then anyone here realises? Maybe it isn’t that they aren’t fixing it, maybe they just don’t know how yet?

I doubt that.
See they nerf things like mesmer powerblock and mantra healing.

If their coding allows them to make kneejerk balancing and bug fixes. Then this should have been fixed 2 days ago.
I doubt that they are so incompetent as to make coding so obscure for one and not the other.

But how would you fix 13 grenades flying off due to a trait in a knee jerk fashion?

Go back, find the trait code, fix it..
Also, I would ask that same question of , How do you fix a bug with interrupts doing 9k due to a trait?

They have done it once already. I can’t imagine if this was unintended that they wouldn’t do the same thing.

It was 24hrs for the powerblock bug to be fixed.
This is gonna be day 5 soon. With no fix.

PistolWhip.2697:

It really is weird they made Mortar AA priority over fixing this hilariously opaque issue.

Could it be it is much harder to fix then anyone here realises? Maybe it isn’t that they aren’t fixing it, maybe they just don’t know how yet?

I doubt that.
See they nerf things like mesmer powerblock and mantra healing.

If their coding allows them to make kneejerk balancing and bug fixes. Then this should have been fixed 2 days ago.
I doubt that they are so incompetent as to make coding so obscure for one and not the other.

Toxsa.2701:

Solori.6025:

Toxsa.2701:

Solori.6025:

Toxsa.2701:

Ranger bug? Fixed in one day after discovered

Mesmer OP traits? Fixed in 1 day after discovered.

Engi game-breaking exploit? 4 days now no fix.

The favoritism is real.
Anet, you should be ashamed.

You know based on that fact..
I honestly wonder if this is working as intended.

They obviously can fix things 1-2 days in.
I find it hard to believe that if this was truly bugged, like the mesmer or ranger, that they would leave it for as long as they have.

If it’s intended, then this game’s pvp might as well just close it already.
Favoritism to the degree of disgusting.

Makes you think.

I feel like, if this is going on, same with everyones burst being able to 100-0 you in seconds.
Maybe this is intended for engineer, like it is for everyone else.
And the problem wouldn’t be engineer. But the damage formula they have for skills across the board.

And their wont be a fix until everything across the board gets nerfed.

https://youtu.be/3lQbbUJQroM

Yeah right, 20k damage by clicking one bottom is so not broken…
And don’t pretend you sacrifice alot of survival for it. It only takes 2 traitlines + 1 utility to do it. You can still grab tool kit and elixir s for survival.
And also don’t pretend it’s hard to land when you can throw it while stealth /immobilize/ Moa form.

Also it’s not just tool belt, the #1 skill does double the damage too.
Stop using other classes as excuse, I already tested that broken build myself in ranked battle already. Now I refuse to que up before they fix it. Also stop JUSTIFYING this build. It shows alot about you if you do.

Simple things because you are hyperboling and being kinda childish.

1. I am not defending this, just saying that if it was a bug, then anet would have nerfed it along with the mesmer. But they havent.
So what IF it is intended?
I’m pretty sure I did say I wonder IF

2. I never said anything about survivability. Where did you get that from?
I actually never mentioned a specific build.

So drop the facade of pointing fingers to make a point. When the point is being made in game with EVERYONE doing insane burst.

3. The fact is everyone is powerful. My question is what if this is the one thing for engi that is also stupid broken powerful.
Look around. Guardians and ele doing 5-6k burning
Mesmer’s,thieves,engies,war doing high burst with little to no counterplay.

So the question What IF is a valid one.

If it gets nerfed it gets nerfed, but my hope is that if one thing on ANY profession gets nerfed, they take the time to look across the board and fix everyone.
not two professions every 6 months.

p.s.
Neat vid, maybe i can show this to everyone that keeps saying mesmer/ele is godmode.

Vapour.7348:

People have been complaining about the “bugged” grenade barrage being too OP.

I don’t blame them, they should complain because it is over the top

HOWEVER…

It is the only thing that keeps the post patch engie relevant in pvp.

Played matches where I kept the DPS build the same except I didn’t trait grenadier and engies simply FAIL and don’t hold a candle to DPS builds of other classes. I play multi classes and have 6 champ titles all from almost 3 years of playing (yeah yeah I have no life but back on topic please)

The play style of the engie pre-patch is no longer viable.

We were robbed of Incendiary Powder, a trait symbolic to pvp engies, by crippling it and giving it to the already OP elementalist

Our entire build tree is lacking in synergy and synchronization. I felt the balancing effort towards our class was rushed and done with little consideration. I.E. using granades for dps build and relying on flame thrower or bombs for their fire fields if one wanted to play condi.

Compare the condi stacking of FT 1 and elementalist fire skill 2. It’s offensive beyond belief for the engie. And our FT 4 fire field has a considerably long CD.

On top of that, we can’t even trait Juggernaut and IP at the same time.

Let’s not forget the turret nerf not too long ago, a blow to another viable engie build in pvp.

It’s quite depressing that a bug is what’s keeping us competitive. It should be toned down I agree but the class needs a major overhaul.

Like I posted in the other thread.

How do you know it’s a bug?

So far
Every bug that has been noticed

like Mesmer Powerblock or the Ranger bug fix.

Has been fixed within 1-2 days. While this so called “bug” has been around for 4 with no dev response or any other acknowledgement.

So what if this is the engi burst.
Like other classes.

If this intended.
Then the damage formula across the board, NOT JUST ENGI, needs to be be nerfed.
Both condi and direct.

Toxsa.2701:

Solori.6025:

Toxsa.2701:

Ranger bug? Fixed in one day after discovered

Mesmer OP traits? Fixed in 1 day after discovered.

Engi game-breaking exploit? 4 days now no fix.

The favoritism is real.
Anet, you should be ashamed.

You know based on that fact..
I honestly wonder if this is working as intended.

They obviously can fix things 1-2 days in.
I find it hard to believe that if this was truly bugged, like the mesmer or ranger, that they would leave it for as long as they have.

If it’s intended, then this game’s pvp might as well just close it already.
Favoritism to the degree of disgusting.

Makes you think.

I feel like, if this is going on, same with everyones burst being able to 100-0 you in seconds.
Maybe this is intended for engineer, like it is for everyone else.
And the problem wouldn’t be engineer. But the damage formula they have for skills across the board.

And their wont be a fix until everything across the board gets nerfed.

Toxsa.2701:

Ranger bug? Fixed in one day after discovered

Mesmer OP traits? Fixed in 1 day after discovered.

Engi game-breaking exploit? 4 days now no fix.

The favoritism is real.
Anet, you should be ashamed.

You know based on that fact..
I honestly wonder if this is working as intended.

They obviously can fix things 1-2 days in.
I find it hard to believe that if this was truly bugged, like the mesmer or ranger, that they would leave it for as long as they have.

Laserbolt.6731:

• mesmers die reasonably fast to experienced opponents who know how to play*.

^

On another note I want to try what the OP is trying
cough

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

5k burn ticks form guardian.

I 3 shot people who dont condi clear and do insane condi pressure that can barely be countered.

Guardian needs a nerf.

#trustory.

Xyonon.3987:

Another QQ thread … There is no other profession forum community that is so extremly scared of tiny nerfs being followed by other tiny nerfs as the mesmer community. So we always agressivly open new threads to show ANet how terribly wrong they are to hope for a solution that will hit in the middle between “buff it” and “nerf it into the ground” to force them to “leave it alone” and achieve balance

These havent been tiny nerfs though..

Have you read the patchnotes or?

Tissitra.4153:

Power ranger survivability does not even begin to come close to what you can have on a mesmer.

Mesmers easily got the strongest buffs in their traits and are currently indeed just godmode (saying this as a mesmer main).

Wow another pop up mesmer main.

Honestly go try engi,guard, or ele.

If mesmer is godmode then those three are the ones that turn godmode into a ball and poop on it.

But it’s ok, as long as mesmer keeps getting nerfed I can switch over to my ele and stay in the meta for another year before they are nerfed.

SimenAaserud.3598:

Don’t know about your server, but every third person I meet is a mesmer. I really hope they will balance things up really fast. Because everything is OP now. From my perspective, mesmers takes the cake

LOL I’m on FA

You should try fighting a nadegineer..
That will change your mind really quick about whats OP lol

Ithilwen.1529:

@Landhere

I agree, the tendency to way over nerf Mesmer is all too evident.

Our support combo just got nerfed so goodbye to that.

SimenAaserud.3598:

After the patch hit, WvW roaming has become impossible.
Before there were good fights over a period of time. Now it is like the first burst wins.
I’ve also noticed a lot of people have grabbed their mesmer because PU Mesmer (Condition) is absolutely broken. A long with shatter mesmer also has a insane burst.
Please fix it. I dont enjoy this play style AT ALL. Maybe bring both physical and condition dmg down again. Especially in WvW. Will add that this also regards other classes as well, but mesmer is the one who I personally have noticed is the most powerful.
Tips: Nerf burning, condition ranger can claim 4-6k ticks now.
Thanks.

LOL no.

Everyone is doing high burst.
Thieves can backstab and HS for 10k

and Engies can 1 shot you.

Flavor of the month is Zerker.

Vaux.7502:

Is this thread a joke? I mean, I’m a Mesmer main and can plainly see thieves were nerfed into the ground and we’re stronger than ever. What are you SERIOUSLY complaining about? Learn to kittening play.

You know everyone has been turning into mesmer mains this week.