Guild Wars 2

Demented Yak.6105:

Alternatively, you can just forget all that and spam conditions for the easiest kill you’ll ever get.

^ /thread

Photinous.4628:

The boon itself is fine, the problem is that Revenants can have access to it permanently if they take mallyx and corruption trait line. It is then equivalent to having diamond skin regardless of health %. That is too strong.

That sounds good on paper, until you realize that Mallyx has no stun break, and one gap closer that cost a lot of energy. (Actually unless you plan on auto attacking the entire fight there isn’t really a thing as perma resistance).
Though people generally don’t take mallyx since it was nerfed.

Dagins.5163:

zinkz.7045:

Let’s see you can:

- Interrupt the initial 3/4 sec cast. <1>
- Get out of range during the initial cast, the range is only 450, and the typical Rev power build is very susceptible to condie based CC so they will have to burn through their resource using Phase Traversal to stay on builds that can actually kite. <2>
- Stealth <3>
- Move near a wall or something as the skill generally fails to execute near a large obstacle. <4>
- Block <5>
- Invurn <6>
- Dodge or evade to avoid a decent chunk of the damage. <7>
- Use protection to reduce damage. <8>
- Use retal or get confusion on them beforehand to add counter damage through their evade frames. <9>
- Use allies/AI/NPCs to split the damage. <10>

Yes nothing you can do…

<1> Because everybody has access to instant interrupt without weapon swap.
<2> Because he is going to cast it right at 450 distance, so you can simply step out.
<3> This one is obvious – thankfully, every class has stealth (of course, on demand, without cast time, on utility slot).
<4> 3/4 second is a lot of time to move behind some pillar, especially easy to pull off on LoF mid.
<5> Again, every class has instant block access (that doesn’t break on first melee hit). Those dagger/shield thieves should stop crying.
<6> Like above.
<7> Let’s burn 2 evades on a single skill, because we are all daredevils with 6 evade bars, and 12 seconds is enough to regenerate at least 3 bars.
<8> … Should I really keep it up?

1. I can’t think of a class that doesn’t have an instant interrupt. So I wonder what kitten weapon combo you are playing?

2. If a rev is in melee range you failed to kite OR it’s in shiro, though I havent seen a rev initiate by running towards you spamming auto at air..wide open…O wait..those are the revs that die. Guess I have seen them.

3. Almost every class can get stealth, the ones that can’t are also the ones with more blocks and CC (or in the case of necro another life bare entirely). So I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at. Also the classes that can stealth actually do have stealth ( or have stealth being one of the main class mechanics) as a utility, unless again you are playing some random non-meta kitten build

4. move towards the wall OR move towards the staircase. It’s not hard really, unless you are stunned before hand and decided that you want to sit there and die and not do anything about it. Your choice.

5. Classes that can block will, speaking of thieves.
With DD you can evade the entirety of UA, with D/P core thieves you can stealth it.
Sooo…why are you even trying to use thief which has probably the most ways to counter rev as an example?

6. Like above.

7. Counter’s are there for every class, you don’t have to use your evades, you could block,interrupt, or go invuln.
(We are back at a big circle with you whinners continuing to act like no class has anything they can do, when there is indeed a list of things. HINT: some classes can do multiple things on that list)

8. You could, you’ll fail, but you could. There isn’t any reason why anyone should be hard countered by a rev when this class mostly capitalizes on human stupidity, scrubs spamming skills, or really bad mistakes.

Oh also Condies.
Condies counter the entire herald combo

Hooglese.4860:

I’m playing this build cause its a lot of fun but I’m getting a little sick of the hate towards me because people don’t know how to fight against it.

It’s nice you’re trying to help people by explaining, but you will get hate regardless because people don’t want to learn how to play against you, they just want to win. And if that means crying till they are blue in the face they will.
People who send you hate are doing so because you hurt their ego. They aren’t supposed to die, it’s obviously because XYZ is overpowered. regardless of what counter’s what, people who don’t want to get better, won’t.

In a team fight
Target the rev. They are squishy. There’s about 10-15s of block moves and then they’re vulnerable. They also do less damage per target in radius with Unrelenting Assault (UA) by about half. Soothing Bastion will kitten you off, I’d argue that needs a icd of more than 30s. Also conditions and unblockable skills should be used since there isn’t aa single thing they can do about it. Also revs aren’t very good at stomping or reviving so if they’re forced to revive or stomp they’ll pop impossible odds and will be extremely vulnerable since they’ll be out of energy and therefor stunbreaks.

I would argue that soothing bastion needs a flat kitten CD to make it close to the other skills, that give you a second chance. But then I remember all the other skills that act as get outta jail free trait’s also let you move, and actually get out of jail. But we’ll see.

In 1v1s
Most revs I see, as in almost everyone, will pop UA and Glint moves at the start. Block or dodge into a wall or behind where they started to survive this. Stealth won’t save you with the whole reveal thing. Use one autoattsck after. Then its either a block move or an auto attack. Just burst them at this point till they pop the Glint heal. Wait 3s then put them down. Revs are pretty strong at 1v1 scenarios so be careful.

Yes and no
I don’t agree that stealth isn’t a counter since the 4 classes that can stealth at will without runes can pretty much kill you(almost) easily 1 v 1.Those classes also have the block’s, evades, invuln, and condi advantage. Classes that don’t have stealth also still have blocks,invulns, CC, and condi to deal with the Rev.

Honestly there isn’t a class that CANT kill a rev 1 v 1.

Similair to the necro. The Rev has great group presence, and decent sustain even for a murauder build.
Not so great 1 v 1 presence.

Vague Memory.2817:

displacedTitan.6897:

Silhouette.5631:

They need their sustain reduced that’s for dang sure. Waaaay to much evade when using the swordxsword/hammer. No other class gets to hit you with its burst attack while evading whatever you might retaliate with.

Mes and Ele both 100% mitigate hits and deal damage at the same time.

I play Mes, and you are talking nonsense.

You don’t play mes enough then, because he is 100% right.

Minus clones.
You can stealth
blurred frenzy
CC
Distort
and block
and our Condi build pretty much shuts rev’s down.

That’s how my mes has been countering rev’s.
Play it more, because you are really, really wrong.

FeelsAlright.5860:

Burtnik.5218:

You do realize that sword is our highest dmg wep and that staff “burst” was nerfed already? Nobody will swap to hammer in melee either unless a evade is needed badly cus hammer is too weak in melee. Also i have seen people doing fine vs rev already and its so “hard hitting” ua. Also the game is not really balanced around 1v1 and its easily noticeable by ua nature.. if you want to kill rev bring condi build.

The skill still requires no setup.
Has no counterplay (double dodging is not counterplay)
Has no risk.

This is bad design.

I have to know what class you play to be this bad at countering a skill which doesn’t work unless you fight someone who doesn’t know what they are doing.

List of counterplay because thinking is hard for you.

Stealth
Moving next to a wall
Moving next to your group
Interrupting the very obvious cast
dodge
block
invuln

Every class in this game can counter a rev in some fashion.
It isn’t hard, unless you’re bad.
Sword has all of one attack you need to dodge.
Staff has all of one attack you can side step
Get in melee when the rev has a hammer.

It’s like people just picked up the game.
This is basic stuff.

Not to long ago I remember ranger mains jumping into other peoples subforum to complain about how OP there elite spec was in comparison to druids.
Some would even make threads here claiming their elite spec was sub-par in regards.

Look at all this karma.

Plazon Romula.7180:

Hubal.8571:

Can’t wield the new spec weapons on both characters (guardian and thief) that had enough hero points for activation.
Got weapons got achievement, can’t use the weapon. Both cases I made sure to be in PvE maps, still.

You will need to activate your new Trait line. “H” menu, Build Tab then change one of your specializations to you new one. Then you can use your new weapon.

This doesn’t work. The game doesn’t recognize that you even unlocked them to use them

So I can’t access any of my elite specializations on either my Mesmer OR Revenant.
The game says I haven’t unlocked any of the core specs for my revenant and the one for mesmer just doesn’t show up

Prideofshadows.4106:

For months I’ve been keeping track of HOT. MONTHS. ANet preached about GW2 being unlike any MMO we’ve seen before and that community matters.

However, HOT is out and we veterans have to pay ANOTHER $50 for the expansion on top of already having payed for the “full version” of the core game (which for most was 50-60 bucks) without an option to just purchase the expansion for upgrade.

Why should those who have the full version of the core game have to pay ANOTHER $50 for the expansion that includes another “Core game”? It makes no sense.

I’m not asking HOT to be free for vets (although with as much as we paid for the game way back when it would make sense because of how it’s priced now). Too much time and effort has been put into the expansion. I simply ask that you create an option for those who have purchased the core game 6+ months ago to upgrade for $20-$30 without having to basically re-buy the game.

It just doesn’t make any sense to have purchased the game a half a year or more earlier and end up having to basically purchase it a second time.

If you don’t want it don’t buy it.
This was discussed 4 months ago and hasn’t changed.

This is a business, these people don’t eat from our love and affection.
Buy it, or stop playing until it’s cheaper.
But the price wont go away in the forseable future.

So for both my revenant and my mesmer.

For my mesmer. I unlocked everything up to 200 hp.

I can’t use Chronomancer AT ALL.

It shows I have progress but I can’t select them. I don’t know if there is a way in game to refund all of your points or not.

For Revenant.
There is a collection that you get for unlocking each core spec.
I unlocked all of the spec at once.
The game is showing that all of my specs are locked. On my 80.
But nothing is unlocked in the achievement’s

Just a heads up.

Burtnik.5218:

Wishes.3021:

You guys giving me examples of other traits similar to this are clearly missing the point entirely.

Then make a general post in pvp section listening all these kind of traits instead jumping to rev section and bashing for some “op” stuff. Right now you attacked rev class ignoring everything else in this game.

^This.
Go make this thread in the pvp section and see what responses you get. I’m fairly certain it will be my entertainment for the next few days

Wishes.3021:

So I was looking through the Revenant traits to see what the meta is probably going to be (PvP wise) and I came across the kind of trait that makes me reluctant to invest a lot of time in this game.
‘Eye for an Eye’ – When disabled by a foe with [CC] taunt that foe and gain protection
An even stronger version of ‘Mirror of Anguish’ (from the passive mesmer chaos traitline), completely passive and very strong in a PvP/1v1 situation. This kind of trait is cancer. It doesn’t require any sort of play to activate and it gives a chance for bad players who can’t dodge CC to be completely forgiven, and even get rewarded for being bad by having an opportunity to land a burst no problem if the opponent has already popped their invuln. Why the heck would you design a mechanic that not only forgives, but rewards players for being bad? Absolutely horrible trait.

Not sure if you understand how this trait works but first lets call out some other traits you missed that are just as Potent.

Shared Anguish-
Gives the ranger a free CC clear and moves it to the pet, stopping you from landing any CC to stop an attack OR set up burst.

Self-Regulating Defenses-
Makes the engi Immune to everything, giving them the chance to run, reset, and then return to the fight. Also stops killing blows( Which is funny considering that Vamp runs got changed because everyone complained about them, ut things like this stay the same)

Hard to Catch-
Besides the fact this is in a really really bad line. This pretty much allows a thief to continue evading. Trait wise this is also pretty strong, just in a worthless line

Last Stand and Defy Pain.
Both strong traits.
Both can change the outcome of a fight.

Earths Embrace-
10 stacks of stab anyone?

Reapers Protection-
AoE Fear, pretty much the same thing as Rev, EXCEPT they don’t auto attack you.

Retaliatory Subconscious-
Blocks on top of more blocks.

See there are a lot of things in this game that make it harder to just CC and burst, some of these have been in the game since launch.
Why are you just now getting around to noticing this?
Learn to play around it. Don’t drop everything all at once. Or ask anet to remove all trait gained stunbreaks.
See how well that goes.

Unwavering Avoidance – Gain stability after you dodge
Again, essentially passive so when bads random dodge but fail to actually dodge anything meaningful they gain passive stability which makes it harder to punish for wasting their dodges. Dogkitten trait.
ANET Please for the love of god stop designing traits like this, they literally ruin the game

Sorry..
I honestly can’t believe that anyone worth there salt in any type of pvp environment has a problem with stability on dodge, ESPECIALLY considering that the line you are complaining about does very little for damage and or even condi removal ( which is one of the biggest weaknesses for a rev so far).

But I am feeling generous today.
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Show me the build that is giving you so much trouble and I can give you a few builds that can counter it.

BAck to the first point.

Even when taunted- you still take damage.
Unlike other traits which either give you a chance to avoid damage. OR block damage OR CC the other player in turn with something that stops there actions as well.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I don’t really see much that can happen inbetween these two extremes. Either Gravity Well succeeds and the target blows up, or it fails and does nothing. I don’t know that this is really fun from the point of view of either the target or the Mesmer (but I don’t play Mesmer, so I probably can’t evaluate how much fun it is from Mesmer point of view).

Hmmm..
I haven’t actually thought of it that way.
And well said.
I guess we will see what Anet does with it.

Liam McColgan.7689:

moral of the story is…..buy a better lawnmower/ L2Mow

There is a very very bad and slightly racist joke brewing here.

Isn’t withdraw a thief skill :P

j/k j/k

Demented Yak.6105:

Solori.6025:

gannondorf.7628:

Please don’t tell this argument again “weakness to condis” when they have barely none. With Glint/shiro, marauder amulet, vampirism rune i haven’t ANY real problem with condi last BWE (only again high stacks of burning and too much condis like other classes). The new trait in retribution line (the proc od ROTGD) make condi management even more easy too. Revenant really don’t have a weakness to conditions. Looks at mesmer for exemple, it’s much more squishy than revenant and without inspiration line have just NOTHING to do with conditions (revenant without Mallyx have Glint heal,regen, shield skills, evade … AND soon a talent in retribution line). When mesmer need to don’t be hit at all (actually mesmer need more skill to play than herald, who makes revenant a child game to play with the upkeep cost of Glint abilities). There is more, when revenant is really tanky with herald and shield mesmer can actually be one shooted (i play Mesmer and i can say you this "condition weakness is clearly none. Would love to have this “weakness” on my mesmer without taking inspiration line). So please stop with that conditions weakness. It’s really a false thing.

The revenant (majoritarly the herald but i hope Jalis and Mallyx would change too) and others elite specs are going to be down and have some changes in one or two months, i’m pretty sure. Currently there is no balance thing on elite specs ( i really hope myself they redone the berserker spec, if none this clearly throw warriors away the meta and let revenants become the more powerfull melee class)

You don’t play a mesmer.

There is so much counter play a mes has vs a revenant it’s sad.
There is no way.
A Revenant should ever counter a mesmer unless that mesmer is terrible.
And if it’s a chrono then that player must be pure garbage.

Chrono in either condi OR power has enough tools to render most if not all of the kits of a revenant obsolete.

You’re 100% right. Chronos absolutely dominate the rev.

I played against one in bwe3. Got double stunned by the shield skill and then stepped in to a gravity well. I had no clue why I was flying and then I dropped and got shattered.

Obliterated in under 3 seconds along with the rest of my team. After that we pretty much all got destroyed every time he came along (maybe because both my team and I were kitten, I don’t know). I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s too OP to play against as a rev but any decent chrono is basically a god. Nobody’s allowed to complain about mesmer.

During BWE3 I defended the Gravity Well.
I rarely advocate for things to be nerfed on mes because I know how to fight them, and to me, they don’t seem powerful.
But Gravity Well does too much. 3 types of CC then massive damage at the end.
You need pulsing stability,blink, OR an invuln to get out once you are in. And then you have to pray that they mes doesn’t have any daze,immob,or stun to KEEP you in.
I think we will see a damage nerf if not on the 23rd then 24-72 hr’s after that. Anet has a list of classes that aren’t allowed to perform well and I believe Mes and Thief are at the top.

Grymlocke.1067:

@ Robert Gee / Karl

IS there any update for our Necromancers / Reapers?

Been over 12 days Since beta and no new notes of changes regarding our feedback

Could we have an update please?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

soon™

gannondorf.7628:

Please don’t tell this argument again “weakness to condis” when they have barely none. With Glint/shiro, marauder amulet, vampirism rune i haven’t ANY real problem with condi last BWE (only again high stacks of burning and too much condis like other classes). The new trait in retribution line (the proc od ROTGD) make condi management even more easy too. Revenant really don’t have a weakness to conditions. Looks at mesmer for exemple, it’s much more squishy than revenant and without inspiration line have just NOTHING to do with conditions (revenant without Mallyx have Glint heal,regen, shield skills, evade … AND soon a talent in retribution line). When mesmer need to don’t be hit at all (actually mesmer need more skill to play than herald, who makes revenant a child game to play with the upkeep cost of Glint abilities). There is more, when revenant is really tanky with herald and shield mesmer can actually be one shooted (i play Mesmer and i can say you this "condition weakness is clearly none. Would love to have this “weakness” on my mesmer without taking inspiration line). So please stop with that conditions weakness. It’s really a false thing.

The revenant (majoritarly the herald but i hope Jalis and Mallyx would change too) and others elite specs are going to be down and have some changes in one or two months, i’m pretty sure. Currently there is no balance thing on elite specs ( i really hope myself they redone the berserker spec, if none this clearly throw warriors away the meta and let revenants become the more powerfull melee class)

You don’t play a mesmer.

There is so much counter play a mes has vs a revenant it’s sad.
There is no way.
A Revenant should ever counter a mesmer unless that mesmer is terrible.
And if it’s a chrono then that player must be pure garbage.

Chrono in either condi OR power has enough tools to render most if not all of the kits of a revenant obsolete.

Burtnik.5218:

“Revenant is not weak to condi” hahah. Its coming to the point where rev can run 6/6/6/6/6/6 builds with 5 legends at once hacking opponent pc so they cant dodge either i guess. UA damage is far from being able to oneshot anyone and theres basically nothing else to dodge.

Pretty much..The Rev has all of two attacks in the Shiro/Glint combo that need to be dodged.

in pretty much every weapon set.

Can’t wait till pro leagues come out, then we can see who is really at the top of there game.

Didn’t they add guild halls for the fightclub guilds?

Adjust.6903:

Hey all,

So I’m buying HoT for its release as we all are. I’m definitely going to swap and play Revenant as my main when its out along with Druid as my only alt (don’t play an amazing amount). I’ve seen gameplay videos of Revenant on YT but not a lot more apart from that. Sooo….

Can anyone give me a breakdown of the Revenant? I swapped to Monk in WoW and it was the best decision ever as the builds were all new and noone Was used to it so learning varied builds made it even more fun. So what’s what guys?

Also a quickie. I play a Norn warrior and Asura ranger. Does asura look Good in revenant gear or am I better off going norn or human?

If you are looking for something that can do more frontline support OR group buffs
Revenant is for you.

Norn in my opinion have much better heavy armor- My Rev will be a norn female.

Revenant is something like a real jack of all master of none. But it can never truly be everything at once.
For example.
If you want great damage- Shiro and the Devestation line are recommended to capitalise on DPS
If you want a lot of condi’s Mallyx and Corruption are for you.
Decent Defense, Jalis and Retribution are for you.
Do you want party wide area effects like sustained healing (assuming the actually decide to buff this legend into usefulness)Salvation and Ventari is your 5 legged (wink wink) man
And for the legend that helps tie everything together ( also the legend with the best heal) Glint and the Herald line- giving great party-wide defensive and offensive boons and the third legend that actually gives a stun break

Pick any two Legends- Only two

Aomine.5012:

I do play all classes, and have experience in WvW/ dungeon/ PVP on all of them, so I’m perfectly aware what other classes can do and can’t do.

Then you know exactly what every class has that can hard counter a Rev.
That would also mean you are here JUST to complain for no reason.
Because you obviously know what classes can and can’t do.

Also if you EVER go to PVP forum, you’d notice almost everyone there feel Revenant is too strong due to long uptime block/ evade/ damage conversion/ high dps in one build.

As of last BWE people actually thought Reaper,Scrapper, and Chrono were the classes that needed tuning down. Though this was also from people who forum warrior quite frequently and probably ( like you) have a low MMR

Their damage is top-level, sword 3 high damage + evade, shield to cover up CD, 0 cast time, able cast even when CCed, convert all damage and condition with heal skill from Glint. Lots of CC, high duration boon uptime, on demand quickness, etc.

I’m going to guess that since you are cherry picking skills that you are well aware of what counters everything the Rev can do in each stance?
Because you do claim that you know what every class can do. So you of course know that every class has plenty of access to skills that can shut down the Shiro/Glint Combo you just cherry picked.

Also the reason why I say 5 Revenant is possible is because they’re an universal class that can probably do everything, (covering dps, party boons, reflection, heal, boon removal), while their dps is in the the top level category

Show me the build that can do all of that.
You say probably.
Which is another way of saying " I’m not really sure"

So MAYBE your first statement of “I know what class can and can not do”

IS A LIE.

I’m not the only one, and I’d be joining the Revenant’s boat post HoT too. If the devs are ok with Rev’s OP aspects right now, I’m ok with playing it. I’m not complaining.
Seriously, don’t know why all of you are getting defensive and delusional whenever someone talking the strong aspect of Revenant. How do you assume someone’s point is fault without backing up with anything?

Sure you will be.

Why does anyone need to back-up a rebuttal to a false claim in the first place.
What you have continued to do ( even in the Ventari thread when it was proven that a healing druid outhealed every healing spec in the game before the announced nerf) is complain about the class being to strong while contradicting yourself about how much knowledge you have with and against the profession.

You need to acknowledge the fact that you and other’s DONT know what every new spec is going to bring.
You DON’T know what counters what in HoT
You DON’T know how to properly fight against a revenant.

You do know how to complain though.

When HoT comes out.
Why don’t you come back to the forums of you fighting with and against a revenant with all the classes ( since you play every class) and show us why it’s in YOUR opinion the OP top dealing damage class you seem to believe.

Also legends in a hardshell
Mallyx- A lot of Resistance to condies (when traited), can have high resistance uptime IF coupled with glint. No stun breakers- CC hard counters, No anti kiting ability, no gap closers in utility, heal’s for a base 3.3k. This is a hammer warriors wet dream legend. If they cant move they die, that’s not rocket science

Glint- No Cleanses from Condies, no resistance, one stunbreaker.
Don’t attack the blue glowing revenant= wasted heal

Jalis- No gap closers, CC resistance via stability road OR traited Stability, one taunt, one condi cleanse tied to healing, one stun breaker tied to the elite (which is pretty bad atm). Very energy heavy
Jalis isn’t a cheap legend. You can kite and put ranged pressure on this legend. Use CC to force them to use there elite OR make them blow the heal with condi pressure. Then condi them down. OR assuming they have wasted the Elite, Burst them.

Ventari- Area (lackluster) healing, Area Condi cleanse, Area ranged reflect.
No kiting power, no real healing skill.
Burst this legend down.
It’s bad, it’s not energy effiecient, and it doesn’t have any CC break.

I would love to see this build you run on Rev that is OP

Black Box.9312:

If you’re in WvW as a Herald and not stacking fury and swiftness while out of combat, then I’m not sure what to tell ya. This really shouldn’t be a problem.

Also, the only one of those examples that can be used on an already stealthed enemy is the Sneak Gyro, which (unless I’m out of the loop on recent changes) is visible itself even when the stealth function is active.

Not sure where Fury and Swiftness come in to fit this scenario, minus the fact that starting out in herald to fight 70% of stealth builds is a really really bad idea.

Most initiations by a thief start with basilisk venom +( skill)

You are going to use that stun break on Gaze-
Thief continues to apply pressure and either holds out on the duration of the revealed OR ports and stealths and comes back.

It could be argued that you could heal and save the stun break-
But now you have effectively used one of the best "O SH*** " buttons the class has for an initiation.

A thing the thief can repeat.

So even with the Facet of Darkness on Pre-fight, It’s use is entirely situational and probably better mid fight.

With that in mind.
It’s also probably better to start Or initiate another class in Shiro-
Being that’s the stance that applies the most pressure, ( and has more ways to escape or evade ) with more ways to screw up a thief initiation.

Let’s say you fight a mes-

Starting out in herald get’s you kited
“You can use sword 3 to put you in range AND do damage”

Assuming that the mes OR thief hasn’t stunned you yet
That you haven’t taken significant damage from ranged attacks
AND that they haven’t forced you to use a stun break

You still have the very high possibility of having UA dodged-invulned- OR stealthed.

The important thing to remember also is that the Reveal is tied to one of the only stun breaks on the Herald.

You can force the use of this stun break early on OR force the revenant to use it’s best heal.

Either case is a win/win IF you know what you’re looking for.

Burtnik.5218:

Engi reveal has casttime and doesnt act as stunbreak nor blind. Gaze is insta cast. /thread

That’s half correct.

Assuming that you are in herald you would need to precast this ahead of time to basically activate Facet of Darkness.
This is going to bring your energy generation down by -2 + (X) for every other upkeep skill or facet your using.

This could be a good thing if you are playing a herald and know that you are fighting a thief. For example Spvp scenarios where you know in advanced what your fighting.

Then the loss of energy isn’t that big of an issue assuming you then play conservatively and micro manage energy cost and expense a little more.

But then we look at scenerio’s like WvW.
Where the encounters are random.

You may not have 3-4 facets active at any given time

That means that at some point you will have to activate Facet of Darkness then use Gaze of Darkness as soon as it flips.
Guestimating that will take about 3/4 of a second as you need to wait the 0.3 seconds that it takes to have the skill flip on your UI bar, then for it to activate.

There are many scenario’s where a thief will succumb to this ability and many scenario’s where a thief can luckily or randomly dodge the activation of this ability.

On that same token, I would like to see this ability have the revealed duration increased as to be consistent with the other reveal trait’s

But I don’t think it needs to have it’s Radius increased.

@OP

Also a lot of the skills you listed have to be used BEFORE the thief or mes enter’s stealth

While Gaze of Darkness and the gyro can be used to do an AoE radial reveal. No target necessary.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aside from buggy smokescale that would 100% be patched, yes their dps is trash.

Oh..well looky here..
Not only is there patch notes up.

Smokescale is no where on that list.

Guess we will give it 6 months right?
Tell me how bad that dps is again?

glaphen.5230:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

couple things.

Belial.9350:

Mantras have always been insta cast and people didn’t moan about them a year ago, therefore the insta cast isn’t the issue.

Poor argument.

Coming from a warrior that hates power lock, I’m not going to agree with the op. The mantra has a precast time of 2 and 3/4 seconds just to get access to power lock. in the midst of combat that’s practically impossible. difficult to achieve.

Plus it essentially has their character scream “IM GONNA STUN YOU I GOT IT”

Not really that hard, stealths last 3 seconds and 3 illusion Distortion guarantees a mantra.

Why would anyone waste 3 illusions ( two dodge rolls and a weapon skill or 2 weapon skills and a dodge roll) for distortion to then use distortion to cast mantra of disctaction?

Does that even sound like smart gameplay to you?

I’m ashamed no one has done this yet.

Don’t
Touch
Our thun thu thuns.

Thun = transmute charges

Zoso.8279:

:’O we have our historian! And before Cele in the times long long ago O.O what was whispered in the dark corners of the taverns and alleyways? O.O I still cringe…. PLEASE HELP ME FORGET!!! Kappa.

oh back in the baby years,

Long ago, when the mention of a thief led to your character getting a 9k backstab followed by a 7-8k heartseeker.

Or getting triple chopped to death by a warrior..

the good ole days

So I (re)noticed a trend in the forums of complaining about the next thing that kills someone ( this time being condies again)
Just a few weeks ago it was -please nerf reaper
scrapper OP
Chrono OP
Druid healing OP
Rev Op
and before that
ele OP
mes ( post nerf) OP
guard OP
and before that ( way before that)
Cele OP

So I am just wondering if people have a list of things they plan on complaining about or if this is just a reaction to a couple of bad games?

Also.
If this is a list, what do you do when what you want nerfed isn’t?

MercenaryNote.8506:

It took about 2 seconds to switch legends, whereas you’d be waiting 10 seconds for your energy to recharge. Also, it’s true that you can get perma swiftness with Herald, but not everyone would run Herald.

I never said it was a gamebreaking abuse, but it’s still an abuse, and seeing how there was a cooldown implemented before to stop this very thing from happening, I’d say that this isn’t working as intended.

Convenient? Yes. Intended? No.

To quote Roy:

General
There was some awkward behavior with the difference between invoking legends in combat and out of combat. This resulted in some weird behavior such as creating a scenario where you’d want to toggle Impossible Odds, wait till you get low energy, invoke your other legend, then switch back to Impossible Odds. We wanted to make invoking legends more consistent with other classes, such as the Elementalist attunements always having the same recharge.
Invoking a legend will now have a 10 second recharge while out of combat.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/Revenant-Changes-Based-on-BWE-Feedback/first#post5382354

Sorry I can’t think of a reason you would NOT run Herald

It’s great in groups
It’s great being solo

It compliments EVERY legend in some way.

Though I do agree..
A bug is a bug

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Friendly note, when in CA form, Druid’s dps is 0.

.

Did your pet die?

A ranger’s DPS will never reach 0 as long as the pet is alive and until they nerf the little monsters . You still have access to something that does decent damage.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Because you missed this-

Apparently
I’ll even bold the things you missed

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

There’ll be more supportive damage for Celestial Avatar by launch… possibly from trait modifications or from skill changes.

An issue which should not be decoupled here is that Celestial Avatar felt gated behind staff use (and troll unguent), which left a ranger with one damage-focused weapon option and one support weapon. I’m making some changes to astral force rate gain to try to address this. Ideally it should be possible to build up your astral force without -needing- to run staff, but running staff should speed up the process by nature of the heals it provides. This would yield the option of running two non-staff weapons while still having Celestial Avatar available.

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now.

that means better than engi-better than guard-better than rev-and better than Ele

One issue that came up is that the healing coefficients are so insignificant that running with healing stats yields very little reward.

The best healing in the game being available without using any healing power; this is not good for the game.

This means you didn’t have to spec into healing, and you would have the best available healing when compared to people that built similarly

The berserker meta not be the only consideration requires that other stat combinations be rewarding.

Being able to run two more damage-focused weapons (if that’s your thing) and still have Celestial Avatar available should address some of your offensive concerns if you want to play a bit more offensively as a hybrid. If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.

That’s all I’m going to say on the subject for now (though I will continue to read constructive feedback here and elsewhere) as there is plenty to be done in order to address these and other issues. /me ducks back to work on Scrapper and Druid.

Aomine.5012:

Solori.6025:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

I call that a fair trade because that’s the only thing Druid does better than Revenant. Other aspect, like boons, dps, utility, I think not.

Oh you’re still here…

Great I can point out a little bit of your flawed argument.

- Boons-
The revenant has great Access to part wide boons in two legends
Jalis with party wide stability

And Glint
- giving party wide prot-might-swiftness- and fury

This is great for the Rev BUT

To have access to these You are giving up something as far as
A trait line
AND
A weapon set-

It could be argued that druid also gives up a trait line for druid
So I will most definitely concede that point HOWEVER

To have access to party wide boons -
You wont be healing-

Your sustained healing goes to 0
A druid STILL can heal through the build up or use of Celestial avatar form-
Staff-utilities- AS WELL AS trait’s and pet abilities and passive ally generated regen. ( not saying regen is good but when coupled with other healing sources it adds up).

For the best DPS-
Your not going to be specced into healing power.
Similair to the ranger-(and not I’ll link that dev quote in a second)

If you do not spec into a DPS trait line your DPS suffers
If you do not spec into DPS gear
Your dps suffers
This isn’t debatable in any form.

Though unlike the Ranger-
The revenant doesn’t have an extended form of itself tossing out high damage.

You can say the devs will do something about pet’s but seeing as how they couldn’t be used in a pvp environment because reasons. I doubt they even know OR have a clue as to how much DPS these little monsters can actually do in a competitive environment.

Let’s say everyone had my experience and got celestial form every 4 seconds.

Every 4 seconds you can pump out massive party wide healing

While for a revenant-
If you are healing YOU ARE NOT sustaining party wide buffs to everyone and if you are sustaining party wide buffs YOU ARE NOT healing.
If you spec into DPS
YOU ARE NOT healing as effectively as you could or a ranger could- thus that argument is DOA

For the sake of though
http://en.gw2skills.net/

Link me the build where you have
Constant sustained healing
High DPS
and Constant sustained partywide boon generation.

And Then I will link you the build where the druid has
Constant healing
Near permanent access to group regen and swiftness
And thanks to your new pets
Constant DPS

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t include glyphs because they don’t figure into sustain with their cooldown extending beyond the 8.5. Or what you could call sustain as avatar state cannot be maintained forever while the ventari hps can. .

Actually-
That’s not entirely true.

Energy management

weapon skills

and energy expense should all be considered when calculating the hps of ventari-

While a druid has to deal with CD’s
A Revenant has to deal with both CD’s from weapon skills AND the energy cost.

Lastly, Depending on the situation you will not be in Ventari stance the entire duration
As far as practicallity went.
The druid was ( and I say was because I assume the notes for the nerf to celestial stance is coming soon) a better healer than ventari.

In both sustain AND burst.

It’s been recognized by A-net already

Also in my experience it took about 4 seconds to build Avatar form from 0-100 with staff in a group.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

It’ll be acquired via a collection.

………Brb I need to go torture some Centaurs..

Roy Cronacher.1576:

soon™

Now I have a quote I can use when people ask is it coming yet.

THANKS ROY!

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

No one wants Ventari to be better than druid, just want it to be VIABLE at all. As it stands you’re crippling yourself and the group by using it.
Does glint/ventari offer boons? yeah sure but not at the same time as heals! 500-600 ticking regen is nice, real nice, but means little when you really cant make use of it at the same time as main healing.

The entire reason that ventari was kept under the bar was because it was supposed to be more drawn out sustained healing, but as it currently is, druid is able to maintain its burst healing over a sustained period. That completely overshadows ventari’s capabilities.

You shouldent be looking at it as “oh you want this single legend to be as good as an entire elite” because what you REALLY should take out of this is “I want my support focused build to be as viable as that elite, which is also running a support build” Legend shmegend, this is about slotting yourself into a specific build and role.

But this is wrong.

Warning all numbers were rounded after calculating to the nearest hundred.

Ventari heals 2000ish per second and can sustain it indefinitely. It can burst to 3000ish per second.

Druid can burst to 4,500 per second for only 3 second every 8 seconds. But then can only sustain 1000 per second while it waits on cds and both of these are only in avatar form.

Over 8.5 seconds a ventari had healed between 17,000 and 25,500 health.

A Druid would heal 18,500 health over 8.5 seconds with 15,700 of it coming in the first 3.5 second.

For burst damage Druid is the superior healer, for sustained damage Ventari is the superior healer.

You would never use a Druid to provide healing for a rammer under arrow cart fire because the form heal peaks after 3.5 seconds and they have no means of applying perma protection to rammers.

Are you taking into consideration the 20% healing buff druid stacks from auto attacking near allies?
Plus the added waterfield combo

Edit: Sorry – with the glyph its an added 45% healing buff

Aomine.5012:

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

arkealia.2713:

Ventari has a 20s projectile block.

Yeah, and druid turns projectiles into healing.

For 5 seconds with a 25 sec CD.

What a joke zzzz..

Revenant is infinitely better in projectile denial than Druid. One hammer can do the job. You don’t even need to be Ventari.

This is true.
As far as projectile reflection Revenant has more tools…
To bad that reflect is tied to a horrible legend that is outshined by Druid in almost every way.

Aomine.5012:

BlackDevil.9268:

Apart from better survivability and more boons-support oriënted in combination with a significant healing output to druid? Nah, probably it can’t.

Where’s those imaginary group boons from Druid?
It doesn’t exist you know? They come from ranger spec not Druid.

I could have sworn I was getting a lot of regen and swiftness from a ranger.
Maybe I was imagining things from all the healing it was throwing out like candy.

Aomine.5012:

If Ventari, a single aspect of Revenant (which can play 5 roles,), outheal Druid, then Druid serve no purpose to exist.

Why don’t you bring up Glint giving all kind of party-wide boons with strong active effect? It’s part of your class too.

You seem to have missed the part where Druid was supposed to be about burst healing and right now its doing sustain AND burst healing.
But since you missed it, I’ll post a quote from the Dev in the ranger forum.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Celestial Avatar healing is the best available by a decent margin right now.

Druid has the BEST healing in the game
Period.
No other class or spec made for support got close to the Druids healing capability.

That’s why it’s on the chopping block.

Have fun.

Aomine.5012:

Varezenem.2813:

My overall impression of it is the following.
Druid:

• Better burst
• More self heal
• More control
• Sacrifices less damage
• More condi cleanse
• Better Mobility

Herald (Ventari/Glint):

• Better sustain Healing
• Far more damage reduction around 54%-74% by itself compared to 48% (both with protection and clerics).
• Better projectile hate
• More party wide boon upkeep (perma protection, swiftness, fury, regen)
• More blocks/invulnerability

However Roy I do have to agree with the feedback on other topics. To make ventari more competitive it needs to lose that cast time on tablet movement and increase its speed and range a bit too (to 1200-1500).

You forgot to mention much higher dps when using a sword.

Even hammer does more damage than LB now.

I too throw random things into a discussion and hope they are relevant.

Funny thing though.
how does that smoke scale do again?

Sorry—
You’re basing you complaint on a skill that -

Can be side stepped to miss-
Easily evadable because it’s slow
Needs to be used in a situation where the other player is oblivious ( 3v3 +)
Has to be at max ranged to fill it’s damage potential OR have the person back into the 2 and 3 hit’s sweet spot.

And your evidence of why this skill is too powerful is-
Zerg combat in WvW where buffs from different players and the world can effect your overal DPS
On random people who may be upleveled
On people who are also debuffed with vuln because Zerg.

You want a skill balanced because in a zerg-getting buffs-with guard stacks
It hits hard?
With a blatantly obvious red line traveling towards you?
That is completely shut down when the weapon is pushed in melee range
On a build that is completely shut down by any meta cele or condi

……….
Can we nerf swiftness too, I think the zerg has too much access to it and it makes traveling around the map too powerful

Alekt.5803:

I’ve been noticing lately that many classes are gaining a form of passive stability. By that, I mean that there is always a chance that said opponent will gain a stability out of nowhere, without a clear cooldown that can be accessed without a clear cost.

I am looking at;
Revenant’s dodge
Scrapper’s dodge
Bountiful Disillusionment
Reaper’s shroud
And many more.

Can we have a discussion on that? Personnally, I do not like the direction where stability is given like a handful of candies, especially the pulsing ones. I am tempted to dislike the reaper’s stability even more, but they are all equally painful.

Did you know that Bountiful Disillusionment requires that you shatter?

Did you know that actively using skills is not passive?

nicknamenick.2437:

Revenant doesnt even need to evade like scrapper.. just dodge and wholla!

Atleast give it an ICD or make it just like scrapper.

Sure, when the Revenant get’s the passive condi clear and reduction like scrapper.

Haste.8610:

Solori.6025:

Haste.8610:

FJSAMA.2867:

The “combo” you discribe only can happen on 1st encounter on pvp when all CDs available, and cause of that easily countered… You know its coming.
Remember if u want to use cs mid match for sure you will have some skills on CD and activating cs will just prolong that CDs.
Its, at max, a 5 seconds time window… just kite. Wells are static on ground, rest of combo easly telegraphed.

TL:DR > l2p

How do I say this with out sounding mean.. You didn’t think about what you said at all.

You didn’t either..

It’s a short, 90s cd kitten combo.

Do you know how long 90s is in a fight?
You must not, you must be running around auto attacking, because waiting 90s to do something is a death sentence in pvp.

Kite? A mesmer? Sure go ahead, have all 5 members kite and lose the point because of the massive AOE shatter + Gravity Well.

It doesn’t take 5 people to kill a mes, and if 5 people are on a point with no stability or stun breaks and they walk into red circles then you may need to rethink your team comp and the skill level of the people you play with.
If this is a regular occurrence for you in your spvp match-ups I hate to tell you, but your MMR may be really low.

Waste your defensives to get away from it. Don’t forget shattering slows you know so kiting is that much harder.

slow=/=movement impairment

Congrats, you got away, no come back after losing the point and retake it- Oh wait, the entire thing can be done -again-.

Brush up on your game terms please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Cooldown

with the alacrity nerf you aren’t going to have BWE1 CD reduction unless you trait for it.

I play a Mesmer, only a Mesmer. This is to strong, all I’m suggesting is that they either lengthen the CD or shorten the window you have to combo.

Try playing more pvp with people who don’t let clones sit around.
The combo you listed either needs 3 clones and your opponent to be completely oblivious to mesmer mechanics OR afk.

Since this seems to be the most well structured reply I’ll use this as my example.

Do any of you play PvP at a competitive level or are you enjoying being OP so much that you’re going to blindly defend what’s clearly broken? I can already tell you’re incredibly bad but that’s to be expected, so I’ll do my best to explain this as -slow-ly (Haha, get it?) as possible.

Kiting, slow doesn’t decrease your movement speed. It makes the cast time on your abilities longer, this makes it harder to kite because you’re especially vulnerable to interrupts which Mesmer just loves to do.

On to the cool down, 90s is not short in a single fight but over the span of the game it is very short, there are weaker abilities with much longer cd’s. Rampage is 180s cd, Lich form is 180s, these, while being undeniably strong don’t turn a fight around as convincingly as a well placed Gravity Well. Even entangle is an 80s cd and it’s nowhere close to Gravity Well.

sigh If any of you three were half decent at Mesmer you might be able to understand why it’s so incredibly broken. The way you talk I can only imagine a bunch of 12 year olds throwing wild Gravity Wells at one person and QQing on the forums saying it’s a balanced ability because you missed. Yes 30-50s defensive is a good trade for a 90s elite but when you catch 4 people and force them all to use that defensive only to throw it down one more time and take the point and gain map control from an effective team-wipe, it’s a little OP.

In the end, if you’re bad you’re not going to be able to do the combos correctly, and you wont see why it’s broken. And if you are you probably wont care anyways and try to defend it. But for those if you who might care -

http://www.twitch.tv/malferian/profile

Prominent Mesmer streamer, access to his past broadcasts are here. Give it a look see, you’ll see some proper combos and maybe begin to understand why Gravity Well and CS needs to be toned down.

Also from your steamer-

A lot of times he would spawn clones-
Continuum Shift-
Spam weapon abilities or get caught in a bad position( OR use his elite on like 2-3 people already mid fight)
then be ripped back

With nothing else to generate clones to shatter ( which is where a lot of damage potential comes from) It is almost effectively wasting a CS

I’m really hoping that’s not what you are basing this complaint on

Haste.8610:

Since this seems to be the most well structured reply I’ll use this as my example.

Do any of you play PvP at a competitive level or are you enjoying being OP so much that you’re going to blindly defend what’s clearly broken? I can already tell you’re incredibly bad but that’s to be expected, so I’ll do my best to explain this as -slow-ly (Haha, get it?) as possible.

If you’re asking if people play mostly spvp ranked que, a lot of us here do.

I thought that would be apparent?

Kiting, slow doesn’t decrease your movement speed. It makes the cast time on your abilities longer, this makes it harder to kite because you’re especially vulnerable to interrupts which Mesmer just loves to do.

I’ll save this for later, but a lot of what you describe is especially for the build you describe is meshing different trait lines, all of which sacrifice something the mesmer brings or needs that’s vital to it’s survival

On to the cool down, 90s is not short in a single fight but over the span of the game it is very short, there are weaker abilities with much longer cd’s. Rampage is 180s cd, Lich form is 180s, these, while being undeniably strong don’t turn a fight around as convincingly as a well placed Gravity Well. Even entangle is an 80s cd and it’s nowhere close to Gravity Well.

A Few things.
Over the span of an entire game the CD arguement becomes irrelevent, Over the span of an entire game many many things can and will happen, but that’s not all.
Many classes over the span of an entire game can and will render your elite pointless at least once if not twice during the entire game.

(entangle is on a 60s CD BTW, you are getting a lot of things wrong about different abilities and effects and I wonder if you are just choosing to complain about the build with no real combat experience from people who are also experienced at the game)

Simply saying.
Calling something OP because it can be used at different intervals every 90s during a pvp match is equivalent to calling
Basilisk Venom
Strength of the Pack
Renewed Focus
Jade Winds
Facet of Chaos

OP because they can be used multiple times as elites throughout a pvp match.
It’s kinda grasping at straws.

sigh If any of you three were half decent at Mesmer you might be able to understand why it’s so incredibly broken. The way you talk I can only imagine a bunch of 12 year olds throwing wild Gravity Wells at one person and QQing on the forums saying it’s a balanced ability because you missed. Yes 30-50s defensive is a good trade for a 90s elite but when you catch 4 people and force them all to use that defensive only to throw it down one more time and take the point and gain map control from an effective team-wipe, it’s a little OP.

That’s what an elite should do?
Did you complain about the AoE SPAMMABLE CC from Shiro?
The AoE 2 second stun from Necro?
The AoE stun from reaper shroud?

Again, you’re grasping at straws about a skill that can be used effectively maybe twice during a match, and that entirely depends on if people decide to sit in a red circle.

To get back to your point from earlier.
That I said I would revisit-

I am sure you are well aware of the requirements of only being able to use 3 trait lines correct.
Can you replicate the mesmer build using this website
http://en.gw2skills.net/
That you feel is OP
And the people that play the class can tell you the 2-3 builds and/or classes that promptly shut it down .

In the end, if you’re bad you’re not going to be able to do the combos correctly, and you wont see why it’s broken. And if you are you probably wont care anyways and try to defend it. But for those if you who might care -

http://www.twitch.tv/malferian/profile

Prominent Mesmer streamer, access to his past broadcasts are here. Give it a look see, you’ll see some proper combos and maybe begin to understand why Gravity Well and CS needs to be toned down.

I think that may be your problem-
You watch people instead of actually playing the game.
Again-
If your opponents are oblivious to the mechanics of a mesmer-
You’re MMR may be low, you may need to play more pvp and get better so that you too can play with a better caliber of people
OR
Ask people in this subsection for advice on how to beat the build you have trouble with, before you cry wolf.
If all you’re doing is basing your opinions and “experience” from streamers, use WTS players who have competed and kept there teams at the top

http://www.twitch.tv/thelordhelseth

Also
I’ll leave this image from the Spvp forum here.
I can tell what the mesmer did wrong from the image- can you?

cakeonroof.7385:

Targuil.3741:

This is what I did to a glass chronomancer yesterday. I think you could reach 16-17k if you actually minmaxed it without help of teammates.

How much did that Mesmer get paid to AFK?

IF that Mesmer didn’t get paid then that is ONE REALLY BAD MESMER.

Chronomancers own Reapers. The stuns are more than enough to beat reapers but they also blind.

Are you guys in NA? Maybe bad mesmers like that only exist in NA

Highly depends on the build.

If the mesmer doesn’t take something for condies a cele necro is going to win the sustain battle.
If a mesmer uses chrono to replace dueling then they wont have blinds on shatter.

If the chrono takes dueling then they are going to give up either inspiration, chaos, or domination.
Each of those lines offers something pretty substantial to the mesmer in terms of stealth and defense, healing and defense, or damage and CC..

Lastly, don’t reapers have a 360 AoE pulsing blind now?
Pick your poison

Ithilwen.1529:

I just came off a match in which a reaper was winning 4 v1. I couldn’t even do noticeable damage on Mesmer.

This is way too much. Heavy Damage 0r heavy tank, but not both.

Did you ask what build he was running or notice any of the skills he was using?

Did you see or read his buff bar to try and isolate what trait line he was in and try and replicate the build?

Have you tried playing the reaper and figuring out what you could have done to counter the necro?

It’s really easy to whine about new things. But please at least try the build you plan on whinning about.

Rova.5369:

1) Reaper
2) Everything else.

Haste.8610:

FJSAMA.2867:

The “combo” you discribe only can happen on 1st encounter on pvp when all CDs available, and cause of that easily countered… You know its coming.
Remember if u want to use cs mid match for sure you will have some skills on CD and activating cs will just prolong that CDs.
Its, at max, a 5 seconds time window… just kite. Wells are static on ground, rest of combo easly telegraphed.

TL:DR > l2p

How do I say this with out sounding mean.. You didn’t think about what you said at all.

You didn’t either..

It’s a short, 90s cd kitten combo.

Do you know how long 90s is in a fight?
You must not, you must be running around auto attacking, because waiting 90s to do something is a death sentence in pvp.

Kite? A mesmer? Sure go ahead, have all 5 members kite and lose the point because of the massive AOE shatter + Gravity Well.

It doesn’t take 5 people to kill a mes, and if 5 people are on a point with no stability or stun breaks and they walk into red circles then you may need to rethink your team comp and the skill level of the people you play with.
If this is a regular occurrence for you in your spvp match-ups I hate to tell you, but your MMR may be really low.

Waste your defensives to get away from it. Don’t forget shattering slows you know so kiting is that much harder.

slow=/=movement impairment

Congrats, you got away, no come back after losing the point and retake it- Oh wait, the entire thing can be done -again-.

Brush up on your game terms please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Cooldown

with the alacrity nerf you aren’t going to have BWE1 CD reduction unless you trait for it.

I play a Mesmer, only a Mesmer. This is to strong, all I’m suggesting is that they either lengthen the CD or shorten the window you have to combo.

Try playing more pvp with people who don’t let clones sit around.
The combo you listed either needs 3 clones and your opponent to be completely oblivious to mesmer mechanics OR afk.

Doug Whisper.2465:

Isn’t destroy the point of CS can stop it and pull the Mesmer back the that point?

It does, but people ignore the obvious and cry regardless.