Guild Wars 2

You should probably post this in the WvW section as this has to do with that area of the game.

Fay.2357:

You’re making an awful lot of claims about how strong you are with this build ozzy. How about you make us a video so we can all have a good chuckle?

Every time you have asked someone to do this, they never do.
I wonder why :P

Also @Ozzy

When you are dazed you can still dodge roll, use utilites, and move.

So I’m not sure how people are sitting still long enough for you to ramp up 12 stacks of confusion unless they are AFK.
Then again if all you do is go to hotjoin games. I could see the issue.
Lastly.
When a build is grossly OP and can actually benefit a team most of the top teams will find some way to exploit it.
When was the last time you saw a condie mes in a tpvp team?

ozzy.8059:

Solori.6025:

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

What condie build are you running where the mesmer has Stealth/stuns/high condies/high stealth uptime/ and great defense.

Because You can only pick 3 traitlines that I know of, unless you decided to play on a server not supported by this dev team..

could always i dono use a shatter … every mesmer build has a stun in the form of diversion.

since when has daze=stun…

Are you sure you play GW2?

ozzy.8059:

abc.5790:

I counter these w/ power wells necro. Use wh4 to aoe daze then wh5 to build some LF and cripple.

They’re not the best at capping. Maybe a bigger threat in WvW

because a mesmer is going to stand in your wells and isnt going to hit distortion or stun you at all…

What condie build are you running where the mesmer has Stealth/stuns/high condies/high stealth uptime/ and great defense.

Because You can only pick 3 traitlines that I know of, unless you decided to play on a server not supported by this dev team..

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it now: the tablet needs to be automatically summoned at your location when you swap to Ventari. Otherwise, Ventari is the only legend with a time and energy tax to use, which makes no sense given its lack of offensive ability.

This one I don’t exactly agree with.

The tablet can be summoned at ranged. So if you are trying to assist an ally far away you only pay the cost associated as if you had moved it from your initial location to your ally’s. In your version one would still be paying the same cost to move the tablet to the ally, only this would take longer.

It wouldn’t, though, because the movement takes the same amount of time as the summon time.

Realistically speaking, it can’t summon anywhere but your location when you first switch to Ventari if it were automatic. I don’t think anyone really doubts this.

If you wanted to help an ally at range, right now you summon the tablet at range, using .5 seconds and 10 energy to cast it. If you want to use it next to you, it uses .5 seconds and 10 energy to summon it there.

Let’s say it auto-summoned at your location, though. If you want to help an ally at range, you still use .5 seconds and 10 energy to move it. The tablet moves fast enough that it would arrive at your desired location before any of the other skills could take effect anyway. So really this wouldn’t change a thing for aiding allies at range.

In melee, however, you no longer have that .5 second and 10 energy cost associated with just using the legend at all.

Here are some scenarios.

Your ally at range wants the projectile destruction.

You swap to Ventari while mass invisibility just went off. Oops. They aoe the spot where the tablet is.

You want to use energy expulsion but you don’t want your enemies to see you moving the tablet.

You are running and swap to ventari. At around 1400 feet you need a skill. You have no idea where the tablet is , you have to choose between continuing to run and hoping it despawns, or telling it to come to your location and waiting for it.

1. In the event that your ally cannot handle the short amount of time it takes for you to move the tablet over to him, this is a failure on your part as the Revenant for not having the situational awareness to anticipate the attack.

.

While I agree with some of your points I don’t agree with this one.

You can not play the game for someone else.

In the event that an ally is getting pelted with ranged projectiles, they should be actively working to counter them, not the other way around.
And EVERY class has some way to deal with projectiles now.

-What if they are out of defenses-

This is assuming a bunch of different scenerio’s happened
If this is mid combat-
You have no way of predicting that the ally who has been pelted from range wont be engaged then in melee from someone else.
Called as the target and bursted down
Or you as the support being the new target for burst.

How do you predict the minds of a team with no information from that team.
It’s like trying to predict unknown unknowns.

My point if it became unclear.
It is not your or anyones job in this game to play actively for someone else, in a team oriented game, where that player should be playing and communicating actively.
So I disagree with predicting, because if you predict wrong.
You waste energy, waste time moving your tablet, and your teammate dies anyway.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Druid is more about burst healing in key moments as it takes a while to build up astral force to enter celestial avatar, Ventari is more about sustain healing.

Ok with this answered.

Is there going to be a place in game where sustained healing is useful?

Ravezaar.4951:

This was the most needed Nerf ingame yet… any1 but a Mesmer sees that.

No..
Even mesmer’s agree this is fine.

atlrising.5134:

by the way, the PU nerf, guts the only good build Mesmers have had in 2 years.

This is wrong.

PU is great and all. But the loss of PU wont kill the class or it’s builds, considering also that the mesmer has more viable builds than other classes currently.

PU is a crutch. A very good crutch.

Secondly-
The pledge is bugged.
For people who haven’t realized this or just don’t know.
The pledge ( torch trait in illusions) is giving x3 ( or maybe its x2 I cant remember) the recharge it’s supposed to. It’s bugged.
Which leads to a mesmer being able to stealth more often.

Lastly
More classes are getting AoE reveal
Let’s see how the meta shift’s with those new specs factored in.

edit: just read the changes. Pu nerf will be meh

Has no one here fought the perma stealth trapper “ghost” thief?

Remember when Clones did the same auto attack damage as the mesmer.
When portal worked by just walking over it.
When people bothered to kite sword auto attack instead of laughing in melee range

Emapudapus.1307:

Atm you cant whisper anyone that isnt mutual friend, that means if someone whispers you after match, asking you about build or whatever, you cant whisper him back and he will probably think that you are dushbag. If this limitation stays as it is, at least put a warning to player that whisper you, that you cant whisper back cuz of f2p limitation. Atm both players are suffering the consequences. Or enable whisper to those who whisper you first, so you can respond back.

buy the expansion?

lighter.2708:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

So what’s elementalist’s weakness?

an ele’s weakness is having lowest armor and lowest HP which means you can be groupbursted down if you don’t pay attention, but that is being covered by runes of vamperism

…….Celestial ele makes lowest armor and lowest HP a non-issue. Then it has the sustain and healing to deal with pretty much everything else.
Right now, there is only one class that can stand toe to toe with an ele and even then it’s not a 100% guaranteed counter.
Ele has one weakness. Focus fire from multiple people, because that’s required.
And it shouldn’t be ( or wont be much longer)

Curunen.8729:

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

…..In the title though ( and the OP) he specifically asked about PU though … :I

TheGuy.3568:

Depends on the players. In general condi mesmer should win.

Actually it will entirely depend on the amount of condi removal the mesmer takes.
If they run the standard PU shatter we see in the ranked ques they don’t have any, OR have one on a that can be used twice on a 20s CD. Burn guards can apply near constant burning.
Assuming that both player’s are top tier skill wise. I would put the fight at a 55/45 leaning in the mesmer’s favor because of stealth.

Dancing Face.4695:

Pu stealth mesmers, +40% conditions food, dire stats, elementalists, ruined alla the fun. Roaming is a way to challenge everyone but you can’t challenge everyone because some builds, traits, classes are above the skill of players. Let’s be serious, gw2 is not for skill,it’s for advantage towards your enemy.

You don’t know what frustration is, until you fight and try and kill a Ghost thief.

Can I be the token black guy who tells the weather :O

Eurantien.4632:

You should be able to block, evade, AND blind taunt.

^ I agree with this.
Unless the player does something to make their attacks unblockable.

You should be able to block,blind, or evade the taunt application.

ReaperJr.5967:

Solori.6025:

ReaperJr.5967:

Solori.6025:

ReaperJr.5967:

Glint’s heal should have a cast time, or if they want to make it instant, it shouldn’t work through disables.

They should also give the rev a sign on screen that says stop attacking cause your healing me.

Are you actually implying glint’s heal is okay as it is? A heal that goes through stun, provides regeneration passively when it’s not active, is instant cast when it’s active? Really?

1. Regen is a sorry heal and is outhealed by almost every passive healing signet in the game.

So please don’t bring up regen like it’s a warriors healing signet.
It’s been bad since launch and it’s still bad.
Don’t believe me.
Go make something glass and try and survive with regen only, no heal, just regen, with someone attacking you. Come back and tell us how well that went.

2. That heal on a celestial amulet heals initially for 2,077. The rest of the healing comes from you attacking.
They turn a bright blue
They have an icon on the buff bar.
It’s really really hard to not see that using burst skills on a bright blue target is a bad idea.

So this is the solution.
Dont
Attack

I know this is really hard, and may be awkward at first.
But don’t attack.
This way they dont heal.

Do you attack a warrior with defiance stance on?
No of course not.
You would have to be a scrub to do that right?
The same applies to a Giant blue glowing Revenant.

You’re hilarious. I have tested revenant extensively, destroyed every other class with it. I know how to look out for the glint legend swap and the incoming heal. The thing is, it’s still not that easy to prevent them from healing. Let me elaborate.

1. They heal from condition damage. Let’s say you have a kitten ton of torment and confusion on them. They just have to walk around a few times spamming AA and they’re back to full hp.

2. This basically applies for every dot. Pets, minions, elemental summons. Whatever. Necro wells, phantasms, etc. Basically ai interaction.

3. Putting aside 1v1 perspective, you think in tpvp everyone’s a hive mind? Oh glint’s heal popped, everyone stop aoe bomb or single target focus. Don’t apply conditions or dot. Really?

4. Disregarding the regen, it being able to work through disables is ridiculous. Why should you be able to heal through stun or taunt?

5. Even if you don’t attack when the heal is up, which probably means you’ll be kiting any potential damage from the revenant, he’ll just switch to another legend and use that heal instead. Either way, he gets to heal and you don’t get to do anything about it.

If you think revenant is weak after their buffs, I think it’s the player not the class.

1. So they have a crap ton of torment.
And they waste the heal to get back up to full life just to die to a crap ton of torment?
But then again I guess expecting someone to waste a condi burst and stand there is exactly how pvp works. Nevermind that a lot of the classes that can stack a lot of condies can also be either elusive or tanky ( or both in the case of a mesmer).
Let’s totally disregard the fact that fighting such classes is going to be an uphill battle for a rev.

2. Sorry, I’m not sorry that there is a class that can kill mindless AI builds like MM necro or Turret Engie pr mesmer’s that refuse to shatter and pop out clones and run.
That sounds to me like a build problem, and not a common problem at that. Unless your seriously advocating for less counter’s to AI builds.

3. Have you watched ESL or WTS.
Those players know how to communicate.
Team pvp revolves around team communication and player skill.
So yes, I would expect GOOD players to see a blue icon and stop attacking,CC, or switch targets. OR burst the rev down because GG you used the only good heal skill in a team fight with 3+ people on a node ( tell me again how many escapes the rev has?)

4. You know, I agree, Why should someone be able to do anything while disabled. You shouldn’t be able to pop
Shroud Skills while disabled
Switch attunements while disabled
Shatter while disabled
Use pet skills while disabled
Steal while disabled
Use virtues while disabled

Did I miss anything?
I mean rev is the only class that can do something meaningful while disabled right?
Lets change that.

5. They will switch to another legend.
That’s good.
If they switch to shiro that heal sucks.
So GG
If they switch to Jalis great, that heal isn’t that good either.
They switch to malixy awesome.
They have no stun breaks and can be CC’d to death.
They switch to ventari , super.
That has lackluster healing capabilities when compared to the other’s and is a huge micromanaging headache ( also one of my least favorite functioning legends)
Also no stun breaks.

WoW, switching legends all of a sudden looks a little worse doesn’kitten

I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden people forgot how to play against a rev.

Mallyx- A lot of Resistance to condies, can have high resistance uptime IF coupled with glint. No stun breakers- CC hard counters, No anti kiting ability, no gap closers in utility, heal’s for a base 3.3k. This is a hammer warriors wet dream legend. If they cant move they die, that’s not rocket science

Glint- No Cleanses from Condies, no resistance, one stunbreaker.
Don’t attack the blue glowing revenant= wasted heal

Jalis- No gap closers, CC resistance via stability road, one taunt, one condi cleanse tied to healing, one stun breaker tied to the elite. Very energy heavy
Jalis isn’t a cheap legend. You can kite and put ranged pressure on this legend. Use CC to force them to use there elite OR make them blow the heal with condi pressure. Then condi them down.

Ventari- Area (lackluster) healing, Area Condi cleanse, Area ranged reflect.
No kiting power, no real healing skill.
Burst this legend down.
It’s bad, it’s not energy effiecient, and it doesn’t have any CC break.

I would love to see this build you run reaper, Because every competent player I fought this past weekend knew most if not all of the Rev’s weaknesses and exploited them heavily.
And every Rev I fought on my Chrono I pretty much was able to walk on.

I think the only valid complaint I have seen on these forums this week has been that unyielding anguish goes through stability. And I can agree with those that say it shouldn’t. But that will only be fixed when Anet codes it as a CC and not a port.

Trancid.8514:

Putting it in simple terms, Revenant outclasses multiple classes at the same time, because it’s too versatile AND OP. Why take a thief or a guardian when you can have both?

condi chrono = dead rev.

ReaperJr.5967:

Solori.6025:

ReaperJr.5967:

Glint’s heal should have a cast time, or if they want to make it instant, it shouldn’t work through disables.

They should also give the rev a sign on screen that says stop attacking cause your healing me.

Are you actually implying glint’s heal is okay as it is? A heal that goes through stun, provides regeneration passively when it’s not active, is instant cast when it’s active? Really?

1. Regen is a sorry heal and is outhealed by almost every passive healing signet in the game.

So please don’t bring up regen like it’s a warriors healing signet.
It’s been bad since launch and it’s still bad.
Don’t believe me.
Go make something glass and try and survive with regen only, no heal, just regen, with someone attacking you. Come back and tell us how well that went.

2. That heal on a celestial amulet heals initially for 2,077. The rest of the healing comes from you attacking.
They turn a bright blue
They have an icon on the buff bar.
It’s really really hard to not see that using burst skills on a bright blue target is a bad idea.

So this is the solution.
Dont
Attack

I know this is really hard, and may be awkward at first.
But don’t attack.
This way they dont heal.

Do you attack a warrior with defiance stance on?
No of course not.
You would have to be a scrub to do that right?
The same applies to a Giant blue glowing Revenant.

ReaperJr.5967:

Glint’s heal should have a cast time, or if they want to make it instant, it shouldn’t work through disables.

They should also give the rev a sign on screen that says stop attacking cause your healing me.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Much to your dismay, Revenant’s do need a weakness.

I would agree with this if it was something that every class had.
I can’t think of any class right now that has to sacrifice EVERYTHING (weapons,utilities,traitlines) to deal with condies.
It’s like the warrior used to be back in 2012

Right now, in this meta there is little room for a rev to spec into condi cleanse and still keep relevant damage.
As of this last weekend of beta I was finding that any class that decided to go condi could render me on the retreat in a few seconds.

And every class has the ability now to make some kind of tanky condi build.

It would be nice if some condi removal was moved into either Jalis or Glint.

And the tablet would be great if it wasn’t so clunky to micro manage.

It may be better if the tablet acted like blood fiend and just followed the player.
Having to manage an enemy, tablet location, and energy may be overwhelming for some people.

Iavra.8510:

Also, BF has a 9.5s cooldown with the trait … which I know I take because BF is awesome.

No, you don’t, because Blinding Dissipation is a lot better.

Also, while doing your damage calculations remember that Blurred Frenzy can simply be walked away from unless you are rooted/stunned beforehand.

Unless the mes is using this skill defensively, you will be rooted or stunned or both before hand

…Are those guardian clones!?!

Alpha.1308:

i’ve primarily been on chronomancer….
so this is purely an opinion and personal thoughts with limited testing

but, it’s pretty much fine on its own
i didn’t use it often with staff, though
Vault’s damage is just………. you need it
it’s too powerful in most situations to give up initiative
it’s basically a Backstab without position requirements, AoE, and no stealth required
the blind/evade skills aren’t worth the damage loss

but Vault being the most utilized doesn’t mean the others aren’t good
Weakening Charge is fine
a lot of weakness
AND it’s AoE
can’t remember the damage…. but, weakness is a very powerful condition

pretty sure this post was about its animation/ way it moved, though
the fact that it pushes you forward is serving its purpose, and it really is just…… fine
decent skill, doesn’t need tweaking compared to the others in my opinion, whether that be the movement, animation, or the skill itself
……. it’s just, Vault surpasses it in movement, as well

My problem with this skill now is the mechanics of it. The skill fire you in the direction your character is facing so using a dodge trait to side dodge, or in the few cases I used bound to dodge into my target my character ends up away from or totally overshotting the target. It would be nice if it either worked like warrior whirl for greatsword or HS. Vault is an entirely different issue. SB outperforms staff as a utility and mobility weapon. And vault is kittening slow.

So now that everyone is basically tryin this out. Hows it workin?

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Yeah but in no other MMO is something as fundamental as raiding xpac only…

Can you name a AAA game that allowed the player to access new raids and content without buying the expansion or original box

T raw.4658:

Solori.6025:

T raw.4658:

Cele necro is indeed OP. If you think it is not please tell me which meta build counters it?

Hammer/gs warrior
Decap Engi
LB ranger
Cele ele matchup is 50/50
Interrupt mesmer

Meta

bruh..
http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Just because it does well vs thieves doesn’t mean it’s super OP.
Also soon we get dodge stealth so save your forum warrior adrenaline for the sea of tears this weekend.
Also get what ever empty buckets you have.

The salt will be
EPIC

T raw.4658:

Cele necro is indeed OP. If you think it is not please tell me which meta build counters it?

Hammer/gs warrior
Decap Engi
LB ranger
Cele ele matchup is 50/50
Interrupt mesmer

Alpha.1308:

…….
no?

Weakening Charge is a forward movement with a twisting body motion while holding the staff
Death’s Charge is a complete leap/float forward while spinning the scythe ahead of you

Death’s Charge complaints came from the fact that it went too far, and the highest damage portion + the condition were near impossible to land correctly, you only hit with the really weak spinning parts

Weakening Charge goes a short distance and has 3 hits that each attack at the same strength with the same condition application each strike

out of all the skills that need new animations from being recycled/clunky looking, this one is fine as is

ahhh I thought the condition was placed at the ending. But if it’s throughout then nvm. XD all’s good

So I noticed that weakening charge has a similar animation to the necro’s reaper shroud

Death Charge.

I remember when I playtested the reaper there were issues with the attack putting you through the target, which made positioning to get the full effect much harder, and a lot less reliable.
So you guys changed that.
“Death’s Charge – Now dashes to a target, rather than in a direction. No longer passes through your target. No longer stops hitting if the player hits a wall.”

What I am hoping is that you guys learned from that feedback, and have made weakening charge act the same, and not put us through a target if we have them targeted.

Shockwave.1230:

Hmm this is a really good point. With all the power creep happening due to elite specializations these should be F2P too or else being competitive in PvP will require going through aa pay wall.

O look you figured out arena nets means of generating revenue.
If you don’t want to shelve out the money for the expansion.
Wait until it goes on sale 9 months later.

GrandHaven.1052:

Exedore.6320:

This is an elementalist (and necro) problem, not a celestial amulet problem. No other profession or even other builds in the same profession perform nearly as well with the celestial amulet.

The builds which have used celestial amulets and been “meta” all share two key capabilities:

1. Power from Traits/Abilities The power value on celestial amulet is pretty low, so unless you can dramatically increase your power, your damage isn’t that meaningful. Elementalists and signet necros do this with might stacking. Pre-patch cele rifle engineer did it with 300 power from the trait line.
2. Easy Access to Damaging Conditions In order to take full advantage of celestial, a build also needs easy and constant access to damaging conditions, especially burning. Elementalist certainly has this. Necromancer has a lot of bleed and poison and can get others through conversions. Pre-patch cele rifle engi had Incendiary Powder.

The fix is to reduce might stacking and cut down on no-effort condition application.

Please explain how NECRO is part of the problem?

it can counter an ele when played really well

CheezeStix.1076:

Roxanne.6140:

guess who won?

Okay, I’ll bite… looking at that pic you were on the red team, you guys had two Elementalists (you being one of them running pretty much the standard Celestial d/d) and you lost. I’m assuming you’re saying that Elementalist is not OP.

I’ll get this out of the way, Rangers and Thieves are not OP.

Looking at your previous posts you seem to think Elementalist is balanced. You also said that Celestial Elementalists weren’t very good before the patch (that was posted three hours before I started typing this reply) so I’m assuming you’re talking about the patch in late June.

Before the patch that happened in June the three classes that dominated PvP were Elementalists, Warriors and Engineers. Thieves were also part of the meta due to their mobility but I don’t think anyone would say they were OP, yet you still had trouble against Thieves and you almost quit GW2. You realize you were playing one of the top three classes at the time and that still made you want to quit GW2 because you thought Elementalists were bad.

Come late June, the patch drops. Celestial is out of the meta for Engineers and Warriors but Celestial is still viable for Elementalists and also for Necromancers now. Now instead of having three classes dominating the PvP scene you’ve got just one. Now that Elementalist is the only one that didn’t get nerfed in the patch you think they’re balanced. Your class had to transcend to an unkillable god status for you to think that your class is finally balanced.

Another post by you from one month ago said that you didn’t think d/d Elementalists had good damage. Are you expecting Elementalists to hit as hard as Thieves while also keeping their sustain?

A post from four months ago (Elementalists were not terrible four months ago) of you saying that Elementalists can’t win a 1v1 against Warriors, Guardians, Necromancers and Thieves, no matter what build the Elementalist is running. Followed by you saying that the people that upload videos of Elementalists winning 1v1s are doing so because it’s funny and rare for an Elementalist to win a duel.

You’re like those people in Dota who complain about being at 2k MMR and think they should be at 7k but instead of getting better they blame everyone and everything else around them.

TL;DR You’re bad at the game or a really dedicated troll.

Aside: It would be funny if I misinterpreted your pic and this post was for nothing.

I can’t even say on what level of rekt you’re on. But bro.

You pulled out this next level of forum rekt.

You brought up this kids post history and destroyed it like the great depression did the american dollar

You nuked the entire credibility of this poster.

10/10 would read again

Like I wouldn’t even post on the forums anymore if someone rekt me this much from my post history.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

I find it funny how nobody complained on the forums when this thing happened ages ago:

Actually….people did.

They complained about everything.
I think this is the second ( or third?) time we have seen Cele stacking be this effective

maeggle.6021:

Thieves haven’t been top-tier fighters for a long time now.

Two years of meta history, and most recent tournaments proves this statement entirely false.

Like not even close to true.

Thieves have been a value to teams since the beginning of this game. and with the elite spec soon, even more so.

MiniEquine.6014:

I’m interested to see if Steal does actually change any or not (does it grant endurance?). Being that the Daredevil gets a 2-H weapon, the mechanic is supposed to change but not add a new facet (unlike the 1-H weapon elites). That said, stof is probably right in that the mechanic in this case is more about dodge (a game mechanic) rather than Steal (a class mechanic). They aren’t lying, but it is different from the other classes for sure.

But …This isn’t even new for thieves.

This is the old acro line.
Your elite spec is a trait line you used to have.
Anet is making you pay for a new weapon and a trait line you already could use before the patch.

Lokheit.7943:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I am very very hopeful this will pull people away from the stealth heavy builds I’ve been fighting ever since I came to GW2.

You will be disappointed, the new dodge trait to make it a leap finisher means that now Black Powder gives stealth so more weapon sets will be based on stealth.

All that dodging is what you will see the time revealed is active before safely stealthing again.

I feel like S/P just got a big boost in effectiveness with that trait announcement

Dahkeus.8243:

Ok, totally not following how people think this is lower DPS than sword, but I haven’t looked at the numbers from the in game link. This is what I’m seeing from the tooltips shown on Dulfy compared to the numbers for sword on the wiki:
Staff
AA 1 – 314 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 2 – 329 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 3 – 4x 656 dmg, 1 sec cast

Sword
AA 1: 269 dmg, no cast
AA 2: 269 dmg, 1/2 sec cast
AA 3: 437 dmg, 1/2 sec cast

Now, the after cast of these abilities may throw things off, but I’m not seeing sword as the winner here.

And either way…who knows what the damage will actually be, especially when considering how much the other elite specializations have changed.

There is a comparison on the first page of this thread.
with dagger , sword, and staff visible

Kocoff.7582:

Mrbig.8019:

Kocoff.7582:

You see, people say Staff is garbage and how they don’t see how staff is gonna replace our current things. This is actually good news. What we needed was diversity among other things. Not only that, but this trait truly favors other weapon builds too!

Stop thinking as individuals, and see it an array of possibilities for the Thieves’ Den as a whole!

talking about WvW here, cause that’s all i care about. I only do PvE to get stuff for WvW

We’ ll see the usual D/Ps but we’ ll start seeing even more D/D and a real surge in S/P including a refreshing reappearance of S/D. SB still remains our irreplaceable utility weapon.

Staff will be fixed after BWE and I bet it will be placed damage wise between Dagger & Sword.

You need to see the bright side of things guys. Staff being a bad, useless stick is in fact a great thing for the Thief Community as a whole.

If ONLY, IF ONLY we get could get our traits fixed…

Problem with staff is not damage. Problem with staff is it has no purpose as a weapon. Its skills are terribly designed and if u may happen to see any use in WwW or PvP is cuz Vault seems to hit like a truck ( base damage is higher than back backstab O__o ) and people will simply spam it till ini ends or opponents melt.

It’s stupid

How could you say that? That’s an unreasonable assessment you put up. Staff has no purpose as a weapon?
How about: steady application of weakness, a dodge roll immobilize cleanse, a blind, a sexy Vault, combined with a 4 stacks of Vulnerability? Come on man.
Staff cannot behave like Dagger or Sword or Pistol. It has to be different and offers its own way of killing people.

You said Vault is gonna be spammable? If you are bad Thief maybe. However, any Thief with a minimum of dignity knows you don’t spam something that has 6 initiative costs, the same exact way you do not ever spam HeartSeeker.

If spamming a 3ini skill is dangerous, then what about spamming a 6ini skill?

hint: Common sense

So please, it’s far from stupid.

I…I honestly Disagree with you and I very much agree with Mr.Big.

Dagger auto can apply constant weakness for people in deadly arts, and it’s an AA
Sword auto applies weakness and cripple ,and it’s an AA

Withdraw can cleanse immoblize, and sword 2 cleanses condi and can port backwards

/p is basically a blind on demand

Pretty much everything staff does, another weapon combo can do the same and better.

Why chose a staff when you can have s/d or s/p

Nothing is even close to the utility of SB

The Vault is most likely going to work like engineer’s rifle 5.
AND it’s going to have a cast and traveltime.

So…Isn’t there trait that gives 10% more damage just for having a staff?
This will need to be tested extensively.
Hopefully you guys don’t get the QQ chrono did.

So let me get this straight.

Top players are now running 3-4 ele comps.
It takes either a really good cele necro or 2-3 people to kill and ele.
And we still have no nerf to the class…

AND

Tempest got buffs.

GG

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, if you stayed for the PvP 101 portion, Rubi asked Hugh how to counter the Berserker, and he spent some time discussing the issue.

No idea if it is helpful, as I’m not into that kind of thing.

Good luck.

It’s not really.. . .

Cynz.9437:

nerf mesmers, eles and co. first…… vamp is kind of needed with all the dmg flying around

He’s right.
First you need to nerf the burst of every class that has the potential to burst.
SOooo basically every class needs to not be able to burst.
Mostly thieves though.

Fay.2357:

DeceiverX.8361:

Don’t even get me started on PU Condi Chronomancer. I pray they make some tweaks because that build was absolutely stupid to play against.

PU condie chronomancer isn’t a thing. You could do it, theoretically, but it would be an awful build. So please, complain more about builds that nobody ran at all. You’re probably confusing it with simply normal condie chronomancer. Just goes to show how unbelievably ignorant most people who complain about mesmer are.

Well, It’s kinda natural, Thieves used to be the apex roamer or zerker in just about every game mode. So some of them will adapt and some will complain until they get back to the easymode level they used to be in.

It’s like when Rangers got buffed and no one wanted to learn how to dodge RF.
So there were 10 threads a day about how OP the damage was.

This will go on for mes as well.
Since the nerfs to mantra’s,gs, and fire and air, I think Power mes is sitting in a good spot.
But people will still want their free kills.
Thus is life.

Iavra.8510:

messiah.1908:

i really dont know how 2 torment stacks were too strong

The thing is, due to the nature of shatters it’s not just 1 torment stack difference, but potentially 4 or even more, depending on how much you shatter.

Also, prepatch there was no Ineptitude, no burn stacking (mesmers don’t do much burning, but staff clones can actually hurt due to that, not to mention the new iMage), Confusion damage could be completely avoided and Scepter #3 didn’t stack as fast as it does now.

While we have condi rev’s putting on 15-20 stacks of burst torment.

Chokolata.1870:

PU is surely OP, not only does it gives huge stealth up time but also a lot of sustain through the boons.

I am all for a PU nerf.
But you can’t really say it makes that big of an impact in conquest style game modes.
There are much better traits for that.
You don’t really see PU outside of hotjoin and wvw

Sunshine.5014:

Nier.8741:

Not EVERYONE is gonna play Warr + Guard + Cele Necro + Mesmer just to counter a braindead spec like d/d ele. I don’t understand why this class has so many privileges when they are fine if they take away some of what they have.

Here, I fixed that for you.

4v1 is not a good counter.

Otherwise I really hope you weren’t serious about war, mes and guard. Cause that is hilariously wrong.

But lets say you are serious

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

prove it. I’ll wait for the builds that don’t exist.

So someone in this thread mentioned multiple counters to a D/D ele.

Has he(or she) listed the builds that can hardcounter an ele yet?
Or was that just a lie?

tobascodagama.2961:

The problematic case was literally rolling across the F-keys and getting a dozen stacks of Confusion or whatever, which I can definitely see being something to avoid. And the change to IR definitely nips it in the bud. However, a ~2s ICD on IR would solve the problematic case just as well without sacrificing as much flexibility in how we build our Chronomancers.

But it really doesnt nip anything in the bud.
You can still shatter back to back.
And get the increased alacrity trait wth it. since they are gutting self alacrity without it.

So instead of using IR, you can summon a or clon, dodge. shatter, dodge, summon a phantasm, shatter, then shatter the phantasm after switching weapons and start the chain all over again.

The change to IR literally did nothing to address the issue of shattering back to back ( since we can basically do that now) but instead, they nerfed something just to say they nerfed it.