Guild Wars 2

Zero Day.2594:

Treeoflife.4031:

Its probably people that dont play thief so they dont know any better.

Typically they claim to have all lvl 80 classes – so clearly they know their kitten.

Yes like being able to run trickery, SA, panic strike, and 2 master traits in Acro lol

killtl.9703:

I can tell you that when I command I have become much more aggressive about fighting the enemy zerg unless it looks unless they have overwhelming numbers and then I look for an opportunity to catch them in a bad position. As long as you are not part of the EOTM guild joke where they synchronize their capping, there is a lot more fighting than in the past.

I rest my case.

Now there are people making threads demanding anet to balance it

I personally can’t wait until stronghold unleashes the Hordes of PD condi thieves unto the PvP world.

Maybe we can finally get the build neutered.

Archaon.9524:

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Archaon.9524:

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Archaon.9524:

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Mrbig.8019:

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Jekkt.6045:

then tell me which amazing berserk build other than medi guard is able to reliably kill a thief.

there are support builds on thief, wether they’re good or not is a different question.
not every class has a support build, or have you ever seen a support mesmer?

the reason why thief is the strongest zerker is because of:

its active defence, be it stealth or evades
its ability to disengage and to reset a fight
the numerous gapclosers that make a thief unkiteable
the ability to interrupt through stability

no other berserk build is able to do all these things at the same time. there is not a single reason to not take a thief with the current balance.

All classes can

No other class can.

that’s why there’s has been a thief in every team ( aside few months pre-trickery buff) since the start of the game.

Every class in this game has a zerker build that can kill a thief 1v1 reliably. If you can’t see this truth than there is nothing more to discuss due to your own unreasonable bias.

gimme zerk war build that can reliably kill a same skill level d/p thief 1v1….lmao

or even better…go zerk war and 1v1 vahn, i’ll lend you mlg arena for that…really wanna see this, and gonna record it ofc so be careful, youtube is waiting for it

GS/Rifle does very nicely vs d/p thieves.
Standard eviscerate builds can do well too.

The goal is to have each fight rely on player skill not have hard counters which it seems most posters here want. For some reason because a thief is mobile they have to die in 1v1’s in a lot of people’s minds.

That being said I could roll a warrior and fight you. I could fight anyone, but it doesn’t prove much of anything me doing that.

Fine then. When? Gonna bring you a thief…vahn, renna or someone else and we’ll see…cause you know, i main war and i won’t go for 1v1 vs a top thief with some zerk crap, but i guess you can so let’s see..

mail me on first account Archaon.6245 when you’re up for it

You make the challenge you send the mail.

ok gonna mail you tonight then…eu right? since you’re nowhere to be seen on gw2 score

Nope NA.

I’ll make my warrior and level em some to get some what of a familiarity with em

Archaon.9524:

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Archaon.9524:

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Mrbig.8019:

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Jekkt.6045:

then tell me which amazing berserk build other than medi guard is able to reliably kill a thief.

there are support builds on thief, wether they’re good or not is a different question.
not every class has a support build, or have you ever seen a support mesmer?

the reason why thief is the strongest zerker is because of:

its active defence, be it stealth or evades
its ability to disengage and to reset a fight
the numerous gapclosers that make a thief unkiteable
the ability to interrupt through stability

no other berserk build is able to do all these things at the same time. there is not a single reason to not take a thief with the current balance.

All classes can

No other class can.

that’s why there’s has been a thief in every team ( aside few months pre-trickery buff) since the start of the game.

Every class in this game has a zerker build that can kill a thief 1v1 reliably. If you can’t see this truth than there is nothing more to discuss due to your own unreasonable bias.

gimme zerk war build that can reliably kill a same skill level d/p thief 1v1….lmao

or even better…go zerk war and 1v1 vahn, i’ll lend you mlg arena for that…really wanna see this, and gonna record it ofc so be careful, youtube is waiting for it

GS/Rifle does very nicely vs d/p thieves.
Standard eviscerate builds can do well too.

The goal is to have each fight rely on player skill not have hard counters which it seems most posters here want. For some reason because a thief is mobile they have to die in 1v1’s in a lot of people’s minds.

That being said I could roll a warrior and fight you. I could fight anyone, but it doesn’t prove much of anything me doing that.

Fine then. When? Gonna bring you a thief…vahn, renna or someone else and we’ll see…cause you know, i main war and i won’t go for 1v1 vs a top thief with some zerk crap, but i guess you can so let’s see..

mail me on first account Archaon.6245 when you’re up for it

You make the challenge you send the mail.

Zero Day.2594:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zero Day.2594:

Wait. Not even!
It’s the melee rangers that are the strongest spec for 1v1’ing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPS21-PMbh0

Man, and ANet’s giving buffs to both necros and rangers. We should go and raise awareness about how OP those classes are.

No, that’s just Charrmagedon/GW Fox.

He needs a nerf.

No dude, it clearly represents all ranger players. Here I will link some more videos to convenience you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK2hQFrU0hc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKjR6DhC-Yg

kitten rangers. So OP.

Man it’s just sickening to watch how ANet allowed such unfair, challenge-less, and OP things to go on in their game.

that’s….that’s…..just….not…….possible!!!

No one can beat the god mode thief class on a melee ranger!!!!

Thanks for posting those mate

EoTM was put in place to be a temporary place for players to play when there were long queues for WvW.

This was only a problem in T1/2 when EoTM was introduced.

What the devs should have done instead of taking the lazy way out was to tackle the real problem of server stacking. They chose the easy way and now you see EoTM as a stand alone game mode per say.

Now here we are in a WvW where we’ve been neglected since the beginning of the game where EoTM takes players away from WvW. This isn’t about T1/2. This is actually a post for the lower tiers. There are players in those tiers who just play EoTM….the supposedly temporary stop before you get into WvW.

Look I’m not knocking anyone who’d rather play EoTM, or am I knocking what it actually is. Do I have a problem with what it has degraded itself too? Yes because its a kittenization of what it was supposed to be. Literally I’ve watched zergs run right by eachother to take the keep the other zerg just got done taking.

WTF.

Archaon.9524:

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Mrbig.8019:

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Jekkt.6045:

then tell me which amazing berserk build other than medi guard is able to reliably kill a thief.

there are support builds on thief, wether they’re good or not is a different question.
not every class has a support build, or have you ever seen a support mesmer?

the reason why thief is the strongest zerker is because of:

its active defence, be it stealth or evades
its ability to disengage and to reset a fight
the numerous gapclosers that make a thief unkiteable
the ability to interrupt through stability

no other berserk build is able to do all these things at the same time. there is not a single reason to not take a thief with the current balance.

All classes can

No other class can.

that’s why there’s has been a thief in every team ( aside few months pre-trickery buff) since the start of the game.

Every class in this game has a zerker build that can kill a thief 1v1 reliably. If you can’t see this truth than there is nothing more to discuss due to your own unreasonable bias.

gimme zerk war build that can reliably kill a same skill level d/p thief 1v1….lmao

or even better…go zerk war and 1v1 vahn, i’ll lend you mlg arena for that…really wanna see this, and gonna record it ofc so be careful, youtube is waiting for it

GS/Rifle does very nicely vs d/p thieves.
Standard eviscerate builds can do well too.

The goal is to have each fight rely on player skill not have hard counters which it seems most posters here want. For some reason because a thief is mobile they have to die in 1v1’s in a lot of people’s minds.

That being said I could roll a warrior and fight you. I could fight anyone, but it doesn’t prove much of anything me doing that.

Mrbig.8019:

T raw.4658:

Jekkt.6045:

then tell me which amazing berserk build other than medi guard is able to reliably kill a thief.

there are support builds on thief, wether they’re good or not is a different question.
not every class has a support build, or have you ever seen a support mesmer?

the reason why thief is the strongest zerker is because of:

its active defence, be it stealth or evades
its ability to disengage and to reset a fight
the numerous gapclosers that make a thief unkiteable
the ability to interrupt through stability

no other berserk build is able to do all these things at the same time. there is not a single reason to not take a thief with the current balance.

All classes can

No other class can.

that’s why there’s has been a thief in every team ( aside few months pre-trickery buff) since the start of the game.

Every class in this game has a zerker build that can kill a thief 1v1 reliably. If you can’t see this truth than there is nothing more to discuss due to your own unreasonable bias.

Zephyra.4709:

lol imagine if EOTM got deleted. Easy.

- every uplvl/new person/total noob would invade wvw
- hence invading wvw with a queue cap you’d have 20 ‘real’ WvWers waiting in line with 50 uplvl newbies waiting in there probably before you
- the forums would explode hating on all the ‘noobs’ in WvW trying to turn things into a ktrain
- so many more siege trolls
- zero skill/perks in siege mastery newbies camping on flame rams for example making the ordeal of breaking down a gate even longer
- have a dislike for big Zerg blobs? Well your problem just got bigger….

For reals.

Thus hopefully causing a destacking of the top servers.

It should never have been created in the 1st place, and Anet should have offered incentives to xfer down the line so to speak.

Toxsa.2701:

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DeceiverX.8361:

It’s SR + RoS as a minor trait that’s making this obscene. The thief while in stealth becomes the tankiest class in the game with this change.

A thief in stealth is a thief who isn’t doing anything. A thief who stealths his teammates to utilize this -50% damage is a thief finally bringing something to the table groupwise

Also remember a thief running 20k hps and 3k armor is still squishy as kitten.

Surprise, thief can grant stealth to other people too, granting all these magic buffs to everyone inside their stealth. (rejuv heal, free regen, SR heal, cleanse, -50% damage)

Since thief doesn’t need to make choice at all, everyone is getting that magic new SA benefit!

good thief finally has group support role

Fuzzion.2504:

eotm is where u go to train for real WvWvW. If they remove it, where will people go to feel good? EB?

No currently its only a place to ktrain around gaining either lvl 80’s or enough wvw lvls to get guard stacks.

coglin.1867:

I see it as a good leveling tool and fun time utilizer when there is a queue. I see no reason to get rid of it. I think that is a really bad idea.

That’s all that it is. You go there to get to lvl 80 and gain WvW levels. There is no fighting. There is no defending.

You get rid of it you bring all those players back to WvW. If T1/2 has too long a queue well then destack those servers.

thx

DeceiverX.8361:

It’s SR + RoS as a minor trait that’s making this obscene. The thief while in stealth becomes the tankiest class in the game with this change.

A thief in stealth is a thief who isn’t doing anything. A thief who stealths his teammates to utilize this -50% damage is a thief finally bringing something to the table groupwise

Also remember a thief running 20k hps and 3k armor is still squishy as kitten.

Thief HAS to be in combat

Great idea at 1st but let’s encourage the destack

Jekkt.6045:

then tell me which amazing berserk build other than medi guard is able to reliably kill a thief.

there are support builds on thief, wether they’re good or not is a different question.
not every class has a support build, or have you ever seen a support mesmer?

the reason why thief is the strongest zerker is because of:

its active defence, be it stealth or evades
its ability to disengage and to reset a fight
the numerous gapclosers that make a thief unkiteable
the ability to interrupt through stability

no other berserk build is able to do all these things at the same time. there is not a single reason to not take a thief with the current balance.

All classes can

Jekkt.6045:

why should a thief be able to kill classes with builds that were designed to stay alive to keep points and support allies?

thief is the most op berserk class, pushing almost all of the other berserk builds out of the meta. even without any buffs to thief it would still be the same as it is now, and still they decided to buff thief, imagine that.

if all, thief should have been nerfed.
cooldowns on teleports skills that use initiative, nerf to panic strike.

So where’s the build for thieves that bunkers points and support allies?

There isn’t one so thieves are pigeonholed into zerker builds only. Thats all they got b/c even at 3k armor and 20k hps a thief is still VERY squishy.

Besides the reason thieves are the best zerker class for Conquest isn’t why you think. It’s because of the mobility and being able to +1 fights. In legit 1v1 duels there are many builds that completely destroy zerker thieves.

So this “thieves pushed all other zerker classes out of the meta” line is actually a farce. Conquest pushed em out not thieves.

Ensign.2189:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You’re over exaggerating the changes to SA. The loss of Infusion means that most builds that work now may need to find other ways to compensate for the drop in Initiative gain.

They rolled Infusion of Shadow into Shadow’s Rejuvenation; it’s arguably much stronger than it currently is on a D/P thief.

No they rolled in Patience with SR. Infusion got the axe and is no longer available to thieves.

Jekkt.6045:

let me tell you a story from an ex thief player. when gw2 was released i picked a thief as my main class with double daggers. i played WvW back then and not PvP because of random reasons.

i played a d/d berserk/valk/soldier build with 200% crit damage and 30% crit chance or so with mug, shadow rev and the 100% crit in stealth trait.

it wasn’t a full berserk build so my backstabs hit for 4-6k, that’s the amount that d/p panic strike thieves hit now.
so without executioner, panic strike (which sucked back then), sleight of hand and double basilisk venom i won 99% of my 1v1s. i won most of my 1v2s, many 1v3s and i even managed to win a 1v6. ofc WvW players are often mechanically not as good as the higher level pvp players.

you don’t have to camp stealth if you play with SA, you play normally, you go in stealth and you trigger the regen and hp/s the same way as you trigger your condi cleanse right now. it’s for free, you’re not giving up anything for it.
if you indeed get low you go in stealth and disengage, nothing changes.

and where are you taking the “other classes are op now too” from?
necro – no buff
engi – thief is not intended to kill engi in a 1v1
ele – thief not intended to kill a d/d in a 1v1
warrior – thief not intended to kill a shoutbow in a 1v1
mesmer – dies to thief anyway
guardian – will die to thief now because of the additional sustain from sa
ranger – thief won’t kill condi rangers. power rangers is hard to tell, idk how their changes will change the playstyle.

basically what will suffer from these changes are the berserk classes, making other things than thief less viable and destroying dps diversity even more.

So what you are saying is in the grand scheme of things these changes change nothing for thieves vs meta

Thanks

Let me add onto the fact that there is a lot of misinformation in this thread being spouted by the “OMG the sky is falling” thief hating brigade.

1st Shadow Rejuv base is 293 hps a sec while in stealth. To get Rejuv on stealth is a separate trait entirely for a base of 130 hps/sec. This gives a total of 423 hp/sec in stealth. Every other class in the game basically has better healing.

2nd DA line has gotten significantly stronger…Yes but you have to make choices. Yes does Panic Strike + Executioner + Mug look good in 1 line…omg yes. Problem remains though is you have to look at the WHOLE picture. Does PS/Exe/Mug look great vs a d/d cele ele after new changes? Shoutbow warrior? Cele Engi? Ranger? Do you get my point? There is a REASON they have done this, and its not to OP thieves.

3rd Please understand that a single thief is not going to be able to use Hard to Catch, Swindler’s Equilibrium, and Guarded Intentions at the same time. Stop spouting this. Also the acro line has been significantly nerfed now that Feline Grace was neutered. Let it go.

Thieves are far from being OP and these changes when weighed against everything else proposed will remain so. We also haven’t seen what the new lines will be so its time to wait and see.

ps. I loved the comment from the Dev that said “Those complaining about thieves obviously don’t play thief”

evilapprentice.6379:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPqYpcteqac

’Nuff said.

I am disturbed by how little they know about thieves.

No it is not and we need the “D/D” thieves to stop the BS lobbying.

Like the OP who mains a guardian…….

Jayden Ennok.3687:

The trap on heal – perfect candy to lure people away from slotting mug all the time.

Improv vs Exec – unless there is some sort of condition to proc the 10% dmg in Improv, why would anyone take Exec again, in most situations it won’t offer higher dmg boost.

I can see Mug, Revealed Training, and Executioner being a viable PvP burst spec.

Paulie.6215:

For those of us that ran 66002, is this much of a dent in D/D?

Your build just became infinitely stronger because you will now run 6 6 0 0 6. You pick up bountiful theft and sleight of hand in trickery, but you now also get to run executioner, panic strike, and hidden killer all in 1 build.

That’s insane burst potential for d/d

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

BFMV.3198:

Shadow’s Rejuvenation is fine and actually, how they have done it in heart of Thorns is actually what thief needs. So stop all the whining. Look at warriors healing signet, heals every second !! ALL the time. We only get it in stealth, and even less healing. Also, it provides people who like the shadow type of thief as opposed to dodging and acro thief style a way to be successful in WvW, especially roaming. Every class is good at something and I enjoy World vs World roaming a ton.

With the removal of infusion thief’s roaming got hit hard

You lost 2 Init on stealth entrance and gained 1 init every 3 seconds in stealth without additional investment needed. Technically that has moments of benefit and moments of slight reduction. It’s not all a loss, right?

Yeah that extra init comes at the 3rd second. So instead of CnD costing 4 it’ll be 5 only if you stay in stealth for 3.1 seconds.

D/P will have to chain multiple HS to benefit from the extra init and to even make up for it will have to chain 3 HS. The problem remains though is that you’ll always be behind the ball on init management

BFMV.3198:

Shadow’s Rejuvenation is fine and actually, how they have done it in heart of Thorns is actually what thief needs. So stop all the whining. Look at warriors healing signet, heals every second !! ALL the time. We only get it in stealth, and even less healing. Also, it provides people who like the shadow type of thief as opposed to dodging and acro thief style a way to be successful in WvW, especially roaming. Every class is good at something and I enjoy World vs World roaming a ton.

With the removal of infusion thief’s roaming got hit hard

Starsurfer.7209:

T raw.4658:

Not one of you is looking at this with the whole picture in mind.

So i will spell it out for you:

Imagine p/d dire thieves with cloaked in shadows along with everything else included in this patch.

Lets wait and see

And what you are failing to see is that P/D is already an optimal build for roaming. CiS isn’t even a necessity for P/D builds. In fact, the most recent builds for P/D swapped it for Infusion of Shadow. What’s more, why should D/D, a set that was already struggling, be nerfed even further in order to ensure that an already cheese heavy build doesn’t get something more to its toolkit (something it didn’t even always use might I add)? P/D is strong because the weapon combination is strong. CiS had very little to do with it, otherwise you’d see them complaining too. If Anet wants to fix that, they can make tweaks to the weapon set itself (they’ve certainly done it to D/D). Look, if you want to say that nothing is set in stone and that things might be okay, fine. But I’m not content with doing that. From what I can see, even with the massive buffs that thieves have received in general (yes, I am aware that we got buffs and that this is a good thing), D/D has been singled out and received a massive nerf to its already minimal defensive options. That means that while thieves on a whole might be stronger, my weapon set is being pushed out of the meta even more. Now if they were to reverse some of the nerfs the set has taken before (Death Blossom evade is brought back to acceptable evade times, Dancing Dagger DPS is increased, etc.), I’d say “Alright. Fair trade”. But I’m not banking on unlikely hypothetical solutions. All I know is that they’re making changes to the traits and they want our feedback before they drop them. And so long as that’s the case, I’m going to keep saying “Hey, good job overall. But could you please move CiS so that D/D players aren’t left to hang? Thanks”. I will not “wait and see” when they specifically asked for feedback and I can already see where this will go if things are implemented as they are.

Don’t patronize those of us who see that something is wrong and definitely don’t try to justify the nerf by using P/D of all things as your reason.

The issue is X/D in the other sets building heavy stealth can’t have all of those traits in the view of overall balance. Does D/D suffer….yes, but thief overall does not.

The d/d users who frequent this forum were some of the most vocal posters who wanted to nerf thieves other weapon sets. They literally lobbied to get D/P and S/D nerfed so they could do better vs them 1v1…..forget you neutered thief vs every other class 1v1 as long as your d/d faired better.

Now its not time to pop off at the mouth but let things play out. D/D will always be viable in PvE and WvW. Waiting for the whole picture to see if it is viable in PvP is the course of action everyone needs to take.

p.s. D/D on stronghold is a VERY VERY viable weapon set due to the amount of NPCs.

ronpierce.2760:

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ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

Again I do not find it irritating at all. When a thief just stealthing I just go elsewhere. Your issue is not shadows rejuv. You are arguing against stealth itself. If they removed the skill shadows rejuv entirely they will still stealth. Those that sit in stealth now will still sit in stealth.

Only one skill SR allows a long term stealth and the only reason I ever used that skill was to cleanse conditions or to get out of a fight I was sure to lose or to run past a pack of people at a gate so as to get into a castle to defend it.

There are a whole pile of warriors that run away when they lose a fight and there no way I can catch them on a guardian. I have been with teams of 3 or 4 others tryng to catch one of these warriors and can not. That warrior heals all the while he is running.Using your reasoning we should remove all escape abilities so they have to stand and fight.

Many will (and have) argued Warrior mobility could be tuned down, redirecting the issue isn’t really fixing my issues. Problems in a game are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, there is a difference between stealth and stealthing and rejuvenating really fast. If you out-reset your enemy you can dwiddle them down in a very frustrating way.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Say thief and X fights. Thief and something else is at 40% but the thief can hide and regenerate to 100% in the time that person can just heal and end up at about 70% health and the fight starts again at 70% versus 100%, what do you think is going to happen? And the problem doesn’t end there. Stealth makes it hard to break that pattern because unless the thief is really bad, it’s hard to continue pressuring them.

(bad meaning you just SR in the middle of the fight and get cleaved because you didn’t take any additional measures).

This happens in WvW all the time, in fact it’s common for thief to kill multiple enemies at once with relative ease. The only thing preventing this from happening in spvp is stealth preventing node capping and the timer, both of which become less of an issue in SH where these types of builds will likely shine much more.

Thank you for posting this as now i can end this argument.

40% of 12,000 hp is 4800 hps. For a thief to fully rejuvenate to 100% health by utilizing shadow rejuvenation is like 20 seconds.

That’s 20 seconds of uninterrupted stealth….

1. HoT removes 20 secs of stealth.
2. Most classes who solo roam can fully heal in 20 secs
3. Most thieves are running more than 12k hps so it’s longer…

You don’t have a heal either, I take it? SR replaced your healing capabilities entirely and is your only source of healing or something?

Do the math with both players having a heal and tell me how it goes.

Sure i’ll break down the thief healing mmkay?

Withdraw is 4.3k heal every 15secs
HiS is 5.2k heal with 520 over 4 secs every 30 secs
SR will net you 300 every second in stealth.

We’ll use the zerker amulet HP pool of 14,225 hps.

At 40% health the thief will have 5,690 HPs left. If you use Withdraw (most widely used heal) that will give you 10,067 HPs.

It will then take you 13-14 seconds to get to 100% health.

Using HiS is faster to full health being that it’ll take ya 9 seconds, but you can’t use it for 30 seconds.

So you’re telling me that’s better healing than a celestial ele, engi, or a shout bow warrior who’s healing 400 every second on top of 4100 in shouts every 20 seconds? How about a regen ranger? Definitely more healing than a medi guard tho right? Yeah no.

Never mind the fact that to obtain this “O so OP healing of dewmz” you can’t leave stealth or it stops.

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

babazhook.6805:

ronpierce.2760:

There is a huge difference in basking in a stealth all-purpose heal and using a shout to heal, like you know, being able to train them down still, being able to actually persue your enemy.

SA being the “Tanky spec” keeps being used but it’s not. It’s the safe hit-and-run tree. There’s very little about it that helps make it Tanky rather than a reset tree. It’s about as corny as PU is.

Which is why the argument that it needs a downtweak invalid. It a distinctly different type of heal then the others mentioned and the fact you have to “sit in stealth” to garner its benefits is not an advantage over those others that can get that instant heal rather then over a time and continually pressure an enemy.

That difference is what makes it annoying to the point almost game breaking. It’s sad when the logic becomes “if a thief ran away, you win the fight.” That’s garbage in every way possible. They could easily make it so that it was still strong but not only promoted fighting, helped you WHILE fighting, such as the example I gave.

Again I do not find it irritating at all. When a thief just stealthing I just go elsewhere. Your issue is not shadows rejuv. You are arguing against stealth itself. If they removed the skill shadows rejuv entirely they will still stealth. Those that sit in stealth now will still sit in stealth.

Only one skill SR allows a long term stealth and the only reason I ever used that skill was to cleanse conditions or to get out of a fight I was sure to lose or to run past a pack of people at a gate so as to get into a castle to defend it.

There are a whole pile of warriors that run away when they lose a fight and there no way I can catch them on a guardian. I have been with teams of 3 or 4 others tryng to catch one of these warriors and can not. That warrior heals all the while he is running.Using your reasoning we should remove all escape abilities so they have to stand and fight.

Many will (and have) argued Warrior mobility could be tuned down, redirecting the issue isn’t really fixing my issues. Problems in a game are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, there is a difference between stealth and stealthing and rejuvenating really fast. If you out-reset your enemy you can dwiddle them down in a very frustrating way.

FOR EXAMPLE:
Say thief and X fights. Thief and something else is at 40% but the thief can hide and regenerate to 100% in the time that person can just heal and end up at about 70% health and the fight starts again at 70% versus 100%, what do you think is going to happen? And the problem doesn’t end there. Stealth makes it hard to break that pattern because unless the thief is really bad, it’s hard to continue pressuring them.

(bad meaning you just SR in the middle of the fight and get cleaved because you didn’t take any additional measures).

This happens in WvW all the time, in fact it’s common for thief to kill multiple enemies at once with relative ease. The only thing preventing this from happening in spvp is stealth preventing node capping and the timer, both of which become less of an issue in SH where these types of builds will likely shine much more.

Thank you for posting this as now i can end this argument.

40% of 12,000 hp is 4800 hps. For a thief to fully rejuvenate to 100% health by utilizing shadow rejuvenation is like 20 seconds.

That’s 20 seconds of uninterrupted stealth….

1. HoT removes 20 secs of stealth.
2. Most classes who solo roam can fully heal in 20 secs
3. Most thieves are running more than 12k hps so it’s longer…

Dark FQ.1038:

T raw.4658:

Perma stealth is gone with the ditching of infusion of shadow

Your entire rant is pointless

Extra initiative in stealth (SR buff) with the cloak and dagger trick or useing black powder.

It’s what 1 extra init every 3-4 secs….gtfo here with that

Vavume.8065:

T raw.4658:

Not one of you is looking at this with the whole picture in mind.

So i will spell it out for you:

Imagine p/d dire thieves with cloaked in shadows along with everything else included in this patch.

Lets wait and see

I really don’t care about PD cheesballs, I either kill them from initial burst or reset the fight and kill them, and with this patch that will be even easier since I will now be able to take shadows embrace… My DD build is buffed with this patch, I’m not worried about anything.

Not having to spec into the Crit line with D/D will open up the weapon set. Also nothing is set in stone until we see the new spec line.

Verilan.2963:

T raw.4658:

Perma stealth is gone with the ditching of infusion of shadow

Your entire rant is pointless

Perma stealth has nothing to do with this rant, and I specifically said so. Perma stealth would imply that the trait is only useful in instances where you are sitting in stealth for prolonged periods of time. Fact is, those 3-4 seconds of stealth here and there, they easily add up, and my main point was that the trait promoted unhealthy (thanks for the expression guys) gameplay.
I play either D/P 26006, D/P 60206, S/D 20066 or D/D 66200 (wvw funtimes), and on the two first builds, without infusion of shadow, I can easily stack long periods of stealth – even moreso if I had the SA passive that adds 1 second to stealth.

Your entire post is pointless

Proper use of d/p does not rely on stealth. Even a d/p player who is fully spec’d into SA now benefits more from less stealth spam.

After HoT if you are fighting a d/p user who is spamming stealth they will run out of init well before they can kill any competent player in this game. Now if you are saying an extra 1k healing every 10-15 seconds is OP then I can’t help you because every single other class has better healing options than thieves currently do.

Perma stealth is gone with the ditching of infusion of shadow

Your entire rant is pointless

Not one of you is looking at this with the whole picture in mind.

So i will spell it out for you:

Imagine p/d dire thieves with cloaked in shadows along with everything else included in this patch.

Lets wait and see

Relax.

We still have our spec not revealed. So losing the blind on stealth isn’t the end of the world. Besides you have to understand that d/d will forever be tied to p/d in terms of balance.

As for feline grace getting rekt…let it play out. There are good changes in Acro and wait to see the spec

As for everyone claiming SA OP….Uhh infusion is gone. They’ve removed “perma” stealth. Also look at the entire patch throughout all classes. If the proposed SA changes were going in without any other classes getting buffed I’d agree but that’s not the case.

Starsurfer.7209:

T raw.4658:

Where can i watch the video to see the changes?

It was a live stream, so I don’t think it’s up anywhere yet.

Dulfy.net has some of the changes up however, including the thief trait changes.

Here’s the link:

http://dulfy.net/2015/04/24/gw2-specializations-ama-livestream-notes/#more-120319

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Last Refuge still exists :/

EDIT: Yet they removed Infusion

Yeah, don’t you just love that.

I’m honestly beginning to think their trolling us now… There’s no way that they would STILL leave that trait exactly how it is after all the complaining we’ve done about that specific trait unless they are intentionally trying to rub salt in the wound.

Thanks

Wow some MAJOR nerfs in there

Where can i watch the video to see the changes?

Condi thieves are cheese.

S/P can also be cheese since its so face roll.

I’ve played every aspect of WvW on a thief.

1. Zerging
2. Small Man
3. Zerg busting
4. GvG
5. Solo
6. Dueling
7. Trolling

You can do it all on a thief tbh. When I was zerg busting I actually front lined on my thief. The SB is a legit front line weapon.

So do whatever you like but know you’ll need a couple different sets of gear/build to swap roles

Maesto.9103:

Indeed, i got some skillful coaches and a really helpful tool.
Thank you!

You missed the point entirely it seems

StickerHappy.8052:

T raw.4658:

StickerHappy.8052:

T raw.4658:

Nebilim.5127:

zinkz.7045:

Nebilim.5127:

I’m almost convinced that engineers are the favorite class of Anet, why they always seem to pop in the daily and why they haven’t suffered any significant nerf every since kit refinement.

So since Kit Refinement nerf engies not having much in the way of nerfs means there is some sort of dev favouritism conspiracy, yet up to kit refinement nerfs the devs “favourite class” was probably the most nerfed class in the game, there seems a problem with your logic.

If i had to pick the most heavy nerfed class would probably be warrior 

Most heavily nerfed is thief mate no contest

Thieves be acting like drama queens as usual.

OTHER CLASSES HAVE IT WORSE

WAKE UP!

Proof? THIEVES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THE META

Due to mobility only

Take away thieves SB and guess what happens?

What? Only Mobility?

Meta Thief eats almost any zerker spec except medi guard?

You thieves are delusional. You always act that your class has it harder. /facepalm

IF mobility was the case then Every team would have mesmers too! (how? PR forward blink, portal)

But why aren’t mesmers on majority of the teams?

You guessed it right, because thieves > most zerker specs.

There are a lot of zerker specs that destroy zerker thieves. The problem remains mobility in choice of zerker in those cases.

In cases of zerker mesmers isn’t 1v1 as much as being focused by a thief. In fact there are zerker builds for mesmer that destroy the meta thief builds….they just are tPvP viable.

They also tend to lack….guess what?

Mobility

StickerHappy.8052:

T raw.4658:

Nebilim.5127:

zinkz.7045:

Nebilim.5127:

I’m almost convinced that engineers are the favorite class of Anet, why they always seem to pop in the daily and why they haven’t suffered any significant nerf every since kit refinement.

So since Kit Refinement nerf engies not having much in the way of nerfs means there is some sort of dev favouritism conspiracy, yet up to kit refinement nerfs the devs “favourite class” was probably the most nerfed class in the game, there seems a problem with your logic.

If i had to pick the most heavy nerfed class would probably be warrior 

Most heavily nerfed is thief mate no contest

Thieves be acting like drama queens as usual.

OTHER CLASSES HAVE IT WORSE

WAKE UP!

Proof? THIEVES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A PART OF THE META

Due to mobility only

Take away thieves SB and guess what happens?

The fact you won while skill clicking speaks volumes.

Nebilim.5127:

zinkz.7045:

Nebilim.5127:

I’m almost convinced that engineers are the favorite class of Anet, why they always seem to pop in the daily and why they haven’t suffered any significant nerf every since kit refinement.

So since Kit Refinement nerf engies not having much in the way of nerfs means there is some sort of dev favouritism conspiracy, yet up to kit refinement nerfs the devs “favourite class” was probably the most nerfed class in the game, there seems a problem with your logic.

If i had to pick the most heavy nerfed class would probably be warrior 

Most heavily nerfed is thief mate no contest

gebrechen.5643:

T raw.4658:

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

It’s not the thieves being weak 1v1. It’s you, if you really believe what you’re wrting here.

Slinging personal insults due to your own ignorance is bad form. You could always pm me and we can settle it.

Wetpaw.3487:

I just power leveled a Thief 1-80 under a few minutes this week to get a better idea how this profession works in WvW.

It’s a pretty easy profession to play well, and won almost every encounter I came across except a really good mesmer that had me running…I ran, healed, and came back for the kill. The mesmer would have had me, cd’s won that fight is all.

I played as a d/p-d/d, and d/p-sb build (0,6,6,2,0 zerk/valk), unless my target was built for support it was a pretty easy mark. Support just used gap closers and boons to run away past my cd’s. The Thief has so many good offensive power, utility, and escape in these traits makes me jelly.

With that said I wish my main (Ranger) had half of this survivability as a non zerg play profession outside of some tank cond build. I wouldn’t complain if Sic’em got changed to a AOE flare that reveals like the WoW Hunter got to help counter.

I just made a ranger and leveled him in 1 day too. I won all my encounters with ease and only died to zergs.

I didn’t even need to think about what i was doing while winning either

dancingmonkey.4902:

T raw.4658:

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Kasteros.9847:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zinkz.7045:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

To illustrate the ridiculousness behind the line of thinking…

The irony is strong…

WvW in terms of “winning” as in the score & PPT is a complete and utter joke, and is utterly worthless, for the vast majority of matchups over the course of this game “winning” has consisted of the difference in the number of players the servers have online between about 1am and 3pm the next day, and mindlessly PvDooring against minimal or zero resistance at those times.

The only ridiculous line of thinking is that of deluding yourself that PPT and “winning” at PPT is anything but a totally valueless exercise.

You have worked hard to miss the point so completely. The point was, are you part of the problem or part of the solution. If you refuse to play for PPT in a game designed to be won with PPT you only make it worse and therefore are part of the problem.

The point isn’t so much about winning than it is about showing respect to those that play the game as it’s intended to be. I personally don’t care a bit about the end result, and fights are what is more interesting, but I play to win even if it is mathematically impossible to win. It is a question of attitude.

What about players that want fights only? Anet didn’t make border for them So they have to fight at PPT borders, simple. Also where is wrote that u must ppt? Fighting is also part of WvW so gvg play as intended. Next thing is what win give u? 3 more chests for ranks? Don’t make me laugh pls, winning don’t give u a kitten lol

They can go play another game is the answer. It is sad but it is not because you have no place to play football that you are as legitimate to play football on a golf course as a golf player. Golf players are more legitimate to play golf on a golf course than football players. At best you will be tolerated. And remember that I’m myself indulging in duels regularly and it doesn’t stop me from acknowledging that fact.

Finally, if the only motivation to win lies with loot in this game (and in life) you are missing so much… I hope one day you will get it…

Give me other game with same combat then I’m not missing anything lol ppt…such amazing…smash doors for whole day…so much fun I wouldn;t be able to play football at golf court cos of security and rules Also i can give u example from real life too, shopping centre is supposed to make u buy stuff, but ppl meet there cos they WANT that and it is allowed So once again, don’t blame ppl for fighting cos they want it and it is a way of playing WvW too – WHERE ANET WROTE THAT AT WvW U HAVE TO PPT ONLY?! It isn’t about loot lol – when i want loot i go fractal. It is about fights – IT IS fun for me – not some knocking in doors with a head like a zombie, and no1 can prohibit me to do this

Show me a law that specifically states I should not urinate on your shoes?

Uhh thats called assault, indecent exposure, and you’d prolly get slapped with a sex offender tag.

Also the rule you are stating is talking about PvP not WvW.

Thanks for playing though

Then where is the argument demanding the right to solely PvP in WvW and not play toward the point of WvW? If you argue against it as a player versus player aspect, then the argument for ignoring the game modes directive in loo of fights seems unreasonable.

Assault? Sex offence? Exposure? I thought the question was “shoe me” the rules, not declare them?

You didn’t pay my $60 for the game. I can play however I want as long as I’m playing within the rules

This again?

Thieves are weak 1v1 except vs shatter mesmers. Even then a dble ranged shatter mesmer can win if he’s not taken by surprise

coglin.1867:

Kasteros.9847:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Kasteros.9847:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

zinkz.7045:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

To illustrate the ridiculousness behind the line of thinking…

The irony is strong…

WvW in terms of “winning” as in the score & PPT is a complete and utter joke, and is utterly worthless, for the vast majority of matchups over the course of this game “winning” has consisted of the difference in the number of players the servers have online between about 1am and 3pm the next day, and mindlessly PvDooring against minimal or zero resistance at those times.

The only ridiculous line of thinking is that of deluding yourself that PPT and “winning” at PPT is anything but a totally valueless exercise.

You have worked hard to miss the point so completely. The point was, are you part of the problem or part of the solution. If you refuse to play for PPT in a game designed to be won with PPT you only make it worse and therefore are part of the problem.

The point isn’t so much about winning than it is about showing respect to those that play the game as it’s intended to be. I personally don’t care a bit about the end result, and fights are what is more interesting, but I play to win even if it is mathematically impossible to win. It is a question of attitude.

What about players that want fights only? Anet didn’t make border for them So they have to fight at PPT borders, simple. Also where is wrote that u must ppt? Fighting is also part of WvW so gvg play as intended. Next thing is what win give u? 3 more chests for ranks? Don’t make me laugh pls, winning don’t give u a kitten lol

They can go play another game is the answer. It is sad but it is not because you have no place to play football that you are as legitimate to play football on a golf course as a golf player. Golf players are more legitimate to play golf on a golf course than football players. At best you will be tolerated. And remember that I’m myself indulging in duels regularly and it doesn’t stop me from acknowledging that fact.

Finally, if the only motivation to win lies with loot in this game (and in life) you are missing so much… I hope one day you will get it…

Give me other game with same combat then I’m not missing anything lol ppt…such amazing…smash doors for whole day…so much fun I wouldn;t be able to play football at golf court cos of security and rules Also i can give u example from real life too, shopping centre is supposed to make u buy stuff, but ppl meet there cos they WANT that and it is allowed So once again, don’t blame ppl for fighting cos they want it and it is a way of playing WvW too – WHERE ANET WROTE THAT AT WvW U HAVE TO PPT ONLY?! It isn’t about loot lol – when i want loot i go fractal. It is about fights – IT IS fun for me – not some knocking in doors with a head like a zombie, and no1 can prohibit me to do this

Show me a law that specifically states I should not urinate on your shoes?

Uhh thats called assault, indecent exposure, and you’d prolly get slapped with a sex offender tag.

Also the rule you are stating is talking about PvP not WvW.

Thanks for playing though

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

T raw.4658:

Until 1 of you ppt players pony up and give him $60 you can’t dictate how he plays his game. I’m sure he won’t try to dictate how to play your game.

That being said I’ve done FAR worse than phantom. Imagine a for the fights player who just stands there watching you lose that T3 keep because you won’t pay him 20 gold to help defend.

Stop jumping all over him because there are worse ppl out there.

These boards are endless cauldrons of logical fallacies.

First of all, the ‘he paid, therefore he can play however he want’ argument is pure BS. People pay for cinema, games, sports, cars etc. and they can’t do whatever they want because they paid. If you talk out loud during a movie you might get flack for it and eventually get thrown out. If you drive your car like a freaking public danger you ill get arrested. If you don’t behave on a golf course you will be banned. etc.

Second, the ’I’ve done worse’ argument is also BS. Since when the existence of ‘worse’ make it ok to do something ‘bad’? Oh, it’s ok to steal 100$, I’ve stolen 300$… WTF?

But you can buy movie tickets and not even attend, give them away, or even sleep during the whole movie. There are no rules being broken and you cant say kitten to that person just because they are not watching the movie taking up a seat.

Yes I justified what he did because I’m a far worse edition of fights only player. I will watch you die, watch you lose objectives, laugh at my own servers zergs get wiped by fights only players, and BM my own servers corpses……unless you pay me the gold to participate. My game my rules.

You can’t dictate how anyone plays unless they are breaking the ToS