Guild Wars 2

JonathanSharp.7094:

So with the Thief, we feel like their straight burst with some sets is too good as it is (Mug/C &D/BS/heartseeker), but a lot of other things are weak in comparison, which is bad.

The goal is to allow them to punish boons (something we also want to try with the Warrior) while also improving their mobility with all weapon sets (since Shortbow is already strong at that, but it overpowers other options).

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

Tks Jonathan, I’m looking forward to that, will we see any of these changes in a near future or do we have to wait a few months for it?

I know it takes time to do all this and test it but atm, as you might understand I’m not particularly happy with my thief and find myself longing in less frequently, especially due to the revealed change, I’m yet to understand why this was done….

anyway, stay SHARP

omg did they say SOON?

Teamkiller.4315:

No, the reason they’re complaining is because, like A-net said in the SoTG, thief is more effective in PvP considering equal skill if said skill level is low. That is, thieves kill noobs more effectively than other classes.

Warriors (lol i know) Eles and Mesmers can also easily obliterate bad/new players.

But yeah i’m kind of getting use to this whining fest on the Thieves forum, I just ignore most of it and hope devs do the same…

who says we PvP dudes get nothing?! we get nerfs after nerfs after nerfs, (except for the eles buffs ofc) if that is all they are giving us i do not mind if they dot give us anything anymore ever again!!!

truth be said, the culling thing in wvwvw a good quality increase to us.

Jumper.9482:

“Whack-a-Mole” is a pretty accurate statement of what they’ve been doing thus-far.
At least from Thief PoV.
In order:
Unload, VShare, Pistolwhip, TacticalStrike(Daze/CC build) + Dagger Offhand, Pistolwhip and Unload again (via quickness)+ Condi+ Another dagger offhand nerf via 4sec reveal.
Mind you, most of these have been 33-50% nerfs, rendering the builds unviable especially in a competitive setting.

At this point either you play D/P burst because it’s the only thing untouched or you reroll ele.

+1

my thought exactly!

All professions should be able to fill multiple roles (not all roles) but they ALL should have something that semperates them from the others, something that only they can do or at least to better than any other.

Thief was suppose to be the one with high burst, high mobility and evasiveness.

Clearly other professions beet Thieves in all the above aspects specially Elementalists that beat us on ALL of them but even if they didn’t there are still other professions that beat us on the aspects i just mention. Like Rangers and Mesmer evasiveness and mobility and as for burst also Mesmers and GC Guardians and Warriors, this last one is at the bottom of the foodchain atm but can still dish out loads of dmg.

This is how my Asura Thief looks like

I use the Ruby Orbs, i thought of going for the Scholar runes but the orbs besides being allot cheaper have better stats overall imo:

6x Ruby Orbs:
120 Power
12% Critical Dmg
84 Precision

6x Superior Rune of The Scholar
165 Power
7% Critical dmg
10% dmg while health is above 90%

The orbs (imo) have more fire power since they give precision and allot more critical dmg the the runes and the 45 power difference do not compensate for the orb’s precision and critical dmg.

just my opinion.

I see where you’re going with this but imo the thief has to be a fast hitting / mobile / slippery class if we have the LONGEST auto attack rotation in game, the fast hitting part goes straight to the opposite end, well be the slowest in game.

no tks, A-net needs to admit to their mistake and reverse these change otherwise thieves will never be in par with the rest of the professions (except warriors, at least for now).

it means that the player managed to stay alive for a long time or didn’t die at all therefore contributed with allot of points for the team via capping/reviving/killing.

as a tournament player it also affects me since i rely on stealth allot for both offensive and defensive abilities with this 1 sec nerf it reduced my access to this ability quite a bit, it’s not just 1 second, on a long fight (1-2min) its a 10 second difference between before patch and after patch. for a duelist like me it DOES affect me quite allot! its 10 more seconds that im visible and vulnerable than I was before and its 10 more seconds that I cant use any of my stealth skills and stealth abilities.

I know A-net will not roll this back anyway, ill just continue to lvl my alt and use my Thief as extra bank space since he’s got all 8 bag slots…

HPLT.7132:

Rofl this thread is epic. I also have an elementalist as second class and I can tell ya GC Ele is as OP as the bunker. I mean I can easily destroy an entire group when their positioning is bad. During my rotation I do about 15-20k AOE damage.

Now we do abnormal damage, have a panic button and still a better survivability than a thief. Seems legit

^^^^^
this

not to mention that thieves are being forced to go to more tanky builds since they’re survivability and burst has been indirectly nerfed due to the reveled nerf.

imo these nerf could have waited another month since they removed culling, they should have givit a month to se how the meta evolved instead of this “double nerf” all at once.
Also MUG is still a 10 point trait dealing 6k+ dmg….

Nerf MUG to the ground / move it to T2 / replace it but pls don’t punish us like this, pls… thieves atm are so non-fluid and counter intuitive….

what about this “the real mesmer is the one dodging and casting stuff besides auto attacks” works just fine for me.

This is such a good thread…
Shame it isn’t getting any attention from the the Devs

“Godly” Tire:
Elementalists

“On a good place” Tire
Rangers, Mesmers, Guardians, Engineers

“LoL” Tire
Warriors, Thieves

Thieves now lost quite a bit of fluidity and feels very clunky atm.
Devs should have waited 1 more month before this nerf since culling WAS the issue, not reveled, now they’ve changes both at the same time and will not be able to accurately see the the impact of the culling removal on the thief profession due to the revealed nerf.

Also, Mug 10 point trait is still critic for over 6k. I know we’re supposed to be a bust profession but that trait is hitting harder the most backstabes…. Rly?!

Devs should fix what’s need fixing, reveal was working just fine….

I ask a dev to please tell us, why remove culling and nerf stealth in the same patch?
Why not remove culling then wait a month to see what happens and THEN nerf stealth IF needed?

Please tell us the reasons behind this “double nerf”…

its not working as it is suppose to, if you finish one daily (i.e. pve) and get a Laurel you should not get another one by finishing the other daily (PvP). Same thing with monthlies but apparently, at least the monthlies, both gave 10 Laurels after the patch but this should be fixed soon i guess.

That is not boon hate its boon removal i believe. boon hate benefits from you opponent’s boons if you remove them you will deal less dmg i guess…

thief thread has been bombarded with whining threads since release and that’s why we are were we are. I don’t see 1 single nerf post on neither Eles nor guardians sub-forums and that’s why they keep getting consecutive buffs even though they are the strongest professions in game.

Doesn’t surprise me at all that people get tired of this blind nerfs we constantly get in EVERY patch and reroll into a profession that is already above average and still keeps getting buffs.

speaking of witch…

… be back later…

Yes dude! of course it is!

The thief profession is at the border of a cliff atm so surely it will take one step forward.
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SPLAT!!!

Hi,
I have been thinking about this for a wile and would like to know what do you guys think about it, how will it work and how effective will it be IF we get it?

In my opinion, we shouldn’t get your expectations to high, IF thieves get this Boon Hate thing, it will be very VERY situational since only 3-4 professions are actually heavy buffers, not only that, i was made to believe that boon hate will be on traits and not on actual abilities meaning you would have to spec for it even though it will only be really effective versus there 3-4 professions.

Also they way thief traits are all scrambled with venom traits in Deadly Arts (Power Trait line) boost dmg on Trickery (condition trait line and so on…) these Boon hate thing will probably end up in Shadow Arts or Acrobatics…

About Boon Hate itself, all we know is that it will increase dmg dealt on targets per active boon. If it will be a dmg percentage, power increase of an extra dmg tick based on the attackers attack power… I don’t know it could be any of the above but i do not expect it to be to strong.

At least is what I’m expecting it to be.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We’re going to be working on a lot of Warrior stuff in the coming patches. But will we be changing things, in the OP’s words, “in a few days”? Nope. We have to wait for patches to move through the system of developing content, refining it, iterating on it, getting it tested, and then getting pushed to live.

Warriors are very strong in PvE, and they’re struggling in PvP – we know this. Contrary to popular belief, we play our game, in all formats, and we talk to player experts in all formats. We also read the forums.

But that doesn’t mean we’re going to throw knee-jerk/reactive changes based on any piece of feedback we receive. As we’ve said NUMEROUS times, we’re doing slow tweaks so that we don’t have to do whack-a-mole balance.

Just because things don’t happen “in a few days” doesn’t mean they’re not happening!

Coff Coff Thieves nerfs Coff Coff Eles Buffs Coff Coff coff….

it has been like this since beta and i doubt it will change.

they could have wated another month… implementing it in the same patch they removed culling was a bad idea imo.

they should have waited to see how the meta would change without culling, and THEN nerf stealth IF NEEDED.

A-net decided to introduce both at once to pacify the whiners.
Also Buffed Eles o.O’

EoNxBoNx.9213:

I am almost certain the matchmaking is like this because of the lack of players. Not because it’s bad.

i agree but… could be both too don’t you think?

I would love to finish my PvP monthly but due to loooooooooong queue wating time, match making system fail and maining a thief, that is impossible atm.

Habib Loew.6239:

We have a few hundred people working here now and most of them play the game regularly. Every class is somebody’s main

Also, please don’t infer Mesmer changes from the fact that it’s my current main. I’m just a programmer – design stuff like that is somebody else’s responsibility.

I bet that the ones maining Warriors and Thieves aren’t very happy atm :P

tks for the replay man! +1

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you have spec’d Mug, you will be revealed if the Mug dealt damage.

It’s not a bug.

you are wrong Mug never broke stealth because the dmg was applied before the stealth.
Unless that was also changed recently, i cant tell because i do not have trait points in Deadly Arts.

ensoriki.5789:

SA is still useful in practical combat. You weren’t going to land your CND every 3s on people trying to stay afloat. Venoms are also useful.
I’d say more but I can’t even comprehend how people think its trashy now.

My immediate response after seeing PW die… Was to go to venom share since I didn’t need haste with that. However I solo que so it wasn’t as practical as it.could be. So…. I’m playing with 25/25/20 ATM while I brainstorm.
Really enjoying 4s immobilize on needle trap too.

Devourer Venom also gives 4sec immobilize and doesn’t require you to lure your enemy into the trap that he may even not stand in it or disable it by dodging.
not to mention that it is useless vs ranged professions wile Devourer Venom is allot more efficient.

Marked One.3125:

No worries though, I just swapped to the classic backstab.

do you know that Hidden Killer got broken on the last patch and it isn’t working at all?

awgardner.9634:

Laika.8795:

awgardner.9634:

Sounds to me like someone has been worked over by a P/D Thief a time or two I feel your pain, I really do… That’s why I rolled one !

Na, I have absolutely no problem with them, they are kitten poor against S/D. But they are generally for people who don’t like to get their hands dirty, and that is what a lot of the outcry is about in the forums. Also Mug>C&D>BS, which was supposed to be addressed, was not. Nothing that is ACTUALLY a problem with the class, as per the SotG, was actually touched, which is a massive disappointment to anyone that plays the game with tact.

I am sorry, but I strongly beg to differ. As a patch, the intention is always to better the experience for the players. Changes require adjustments, and we understood that when we signed up to play.

Be it that it may, people are always going to gripe. After every “Nerf”, their will always be that dedicated player that will learn to utilize the tools he is given to work with, while others will QQ about how they got “Nerfed” or “Balanced”, or their was not enough “Nerfing” or “Balancing” done to suit the ideas of others.. as countless as they may be.

There will always be QQ, there will always be OP, because they are always practiced through the opinions and values of the person practicing such natures. Hence there will always be somebody left unhappy.

HOWEVER – with the respected changes to the game, I will go ahead and get peoples panties in a twist when I say “I will learn to work my way in and out of the new updates, and this time, I am going to get credit for it and it will be seen by others across the Leader Board! So let the flaming prematurely begin !”.

can you frap that and posted UNEDITED AND UNCUT?
I would love to see it

Ezrael.6859:

Anyone who has done more than 100 tournament games will realize that mesmers and thieves are far from OP. Step out of HotJoin, and you will realize and understand what classes truly flourish and which don’t.

I’m with you there all the way.

Shame A-net disagrees with us.

Habib Loew.6239:

Thanks for the cookies I hadn’t seen this thread before they arrived so it was quite a surprise. We weren’t sick, we were just a little busy working on fixing culling

Also, it’s pretty awesome that there were butterfly cookies. How did you know that my current main is a Mesmer?

That’s good news, hopefully well see some changes / adjustments to Mesmers.

btw does anyone there as a thief as main atm?

Vayne.8563:

Actually Guild Wars 2 is the fastest selling MMO of all time. That it to say it sold 3 million copies faster than any MMO in history including WoW. And that IS a matter of record.

what good is that record for if in 1 year time there is no one to spend money in it?

I’m a PvP player, all i do is PvP in this game, wvwvw / s/tPvP is what I enjoy doing.
With this patch and the absolut awesome changes in it ppl are so happy that they aren’t even loging into the game and the ones that do do not queue for tournaments because of the nerfs… the waiting time for tournaments is ridiculous, not to mention the profession that you really broke not only via heavy nerfs but also braking one of they’re most used trait.

And the buffs to Elementalists and Mesmers… much needed as well!

Awesome job! just wanted to say tks for ruining most PvP player’s experience in Gw2. this was truly the PVP PATCH everyone was expecting.

I cant thank you enough! :*

Don’t use Hidden killer?…
I’m not even using my thief…

most utility venoms are better then BV.
BV is a silly excuse of an ELITE and its the ONLY one we can use under water…

Btw if you turn someone to stone under water, why don’t they “fall” to the bottom of the sea/river? does the BV tun ppl into styrofoam wile under water?!

darkace.8925:

Volrath.1473:

I will not play on my thief until it is made playable again.

Thief is unplayable? Why, then, am I still able to log in on my thief? Am I running a hacked version of the game? I hope ArenaNet doesn’t ban me.

I dont like repeating myself for ppl that only read the last 2-3 posts and ignore the rest of the thread so here you go.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/All-the-thiefs-are-gone/first#post1715401

Raine Akrune.8416:

Try switching your weapons and builds up. My thief was 100% UNTOUCHED by this update and I’m still out there kicking kitten with my pre-patch build.

people are different from eachother and have different tasts and different play-stiles, i’m senselessly happy for you and glad you are still viable but i believe i can say most thieves got they’re specs ruined in both pvp and pve…

I’m talking about x/D and D/P base specs are all ruined.
Also D/x since the trait “hidden assassin” that useto grant 100% crit chance from stealth is not working… (one of the things that got broken on last patch)

I will not play on my thief until it is made playable again.

If my profession was playable / viable for PvP lit it was 2 days ago i would play tournaments for now i just play another game…

Ppl have the right express they’re opinion and not the OP nor anyone has the right to ask them not to.

Socondly, and you probably don’t know or simply don’t care, the nerf to the thieves “Reveled” mechanic affects most builds and has a extremely high impact on ability rotation. Not to mention that the one most important trait from the Critical Dmg trait line is now broken and does not work at all, inviablilizing 2 of the 3 semi-decent builds available to the thieves.

So yah, i don’t think ppl are overreacting wen they cant play they’re profession in a competitive way.

@ensoriki.5789
That build doesn’t work either, the hidden thief trait is broken after the patch. There is no 100% crit chance from stealth. Even it it was working you can’t kill bunkers and unfortunately bunkers are all there is in spvp.
So pointless to go GC. the self heal build is also not viable due to the reveled nerf and condi is the easiest build to counter.
All it’s left for thieves is take a brake and come back in a few months or reroll.

GJ anet!

Zodian.6597:

This patch has addressed some pretty major complaints that have been made by the pvp community since beta, ie: quickness, no pvp skin on char selection screen, queuing into dc’d team members. These fixes + the addition of new skins to the cash shop to play around with (although i’m not a fan of how they rng off the boxes -.-) have exceeded my expectations for this patch, which (from what I understood) was mainly for wvw. Balance could have been more… ambitious, but hey at least they gave us something.

My overall feedback (for anet) would be just to focus on more smaller aesthetic things in the future (gear skins), because they will help monetize the game, but more importantly keep people like me (who like to play fashion show with their characters all day) playing, for relatively low resource demand -it’s quiet literally the “best bang for your buck” in terms of content development, so having a few people on the art team just pumping out new skins every few weeks would be awesome.

That’s my opinion, how do all of you feel about the patch?

Just browse a bit and you will find out Mr. Elementalist.

imo since they can pull resources from every team in the office they should pull into the balance dev “team” (if there is one) the person with the highest IQ in the office.

From the Cleaner’s team, the old lady that cleans the office’s toilets.

JonPeters.5630:

As we played with the stealth changed mentioned in the SotG, we recognized that in conjunction with the change to culling this was an unpredictable change to make. We also felt that it was too big of a hit to these stealth professions, so we ended up pulling that change in favor of just increasing revealed duration by 1 second.

Basically you are saing that you decided to change the initial stealth nerf in favor of Mesmers. ok understood, tks for pointing that out.

Straegen.2938:

Auesis.7301:

We’re talking about PvE. You know, where mobs stand still and Warriors can easily cleave with the highest-damaging skill in the game every 6.5 seconds followed by an immensely powerful cleave with a built-in evade every 8 seconds.

My Thief hits like a wet noodle in comparison to my Warrior.

Doesn’t matter. The thief has never been a pure DPS class as again that belongs to AoE builds. Single target the thief is still a top DPS class even in PvE. The class lacks group utility of other classes and cannot handle mobs as well, but single target… no problem.

you can paint it anyway you like a single thief is unable to take ANY bunker build profession down by itself so, what is the thief’s ONLY highlight? single target dmg?
ok.

its just what we needed!!!!
who cares about working traits or OP / UP professions… we just wanna be able to see the shinniz

AllieMurdock.1785:

If someone is using a full condition spec and min/maxed for confusion stacking, it’s possible to see the damage you’re seeing. No changes were made today that would affect confusion damage.

We verified several times in the office today after seeing this thread, and didn’t find anything that was abnormal.

Regardless, thank you very much for reporting it. We appreciate the quick action!

well if you DIDN’T change any thing about it then you should have since mesmers can now aoe spam it -_-’

LordByron.8369:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

You seem to be a little misinformed. Try playing with S/D in PvE. Your ability to put up a fire field and spam a ridiculous number of blast finishers easily puts the Elementalist as the top might stacking class.

By boon sharing, yes granting fury to your party several times is very strong.

The ability to give an easy and strong aoe heal just for swapping to water is very strong.

Using gw2lfg postings as a way to determine the Ele’s strength is ridiculous. I have run a full party of 5 Elementalists before and not only did we kill things quickly, but we also never died or hardly had any damage for a long period of time.

Eles do not struggle in DPS when played well. I have 3 abilities that can hit up to and over 10k with S/D. The only reason an Elementalist would be holding a team down is if they don’t know how to play one very well.

again this 30/30/30/30/30 build with 6 hands?

Ele can do 1 thing at a time that is the problem..
You want to keep stacks of might with scepter? fine lets miss everything that moves….

You want to use D/D? good but you die in melee because mobs aren t FAIR

You want to use staff?
Cool you deal no damage and miss anything moving,…but you have range :|

No really ELEs in PvE are far from OP quite UP if i may say so….and as i said gw2 lfg is quite the proof

You want to ignore the only LFG tools used?
Then wich other excuse do you want?

So if you know the game you know with 1 ele migh stacks lowers PARTY dps because ele lacks DPS
2 ELES are outright terrible…..
3 ELES i bet you can’t get past veteran shamans in fotm and similar…

P.S: ele can stack 9 <==== might on a LONG CD
I want to see you waste a slot for arcane blast in PvE really……and then surviving while casting churning earth….

If you still have to say ele is OP i wait you for a fotm lvl 38 run……so you can show me how OP you are and how many stacks you keep while surviving….

pls stop im crying already! devs pls BUFF eles… the poor guys…

Doggie.3184:

WHERE are the buffs and bug fixes!? Where’s the supposed mobility buff they mentioned? Again we get nerfs with nothing positive to give us. Nerfs that also cause more bugs as well apparently. Lovely.

they increased the radius of “unreachable” by 50% and gave it a visible area on effect.
if that tinny little circle is now 50% bigger than before.

how big was it before?! smaller than my asura’s shadow?