in the end condies work quite well at the moment …. Just accept that condies are one of the two ways to actually kill.
As said we don´t have a condi meta. If we split removal people will complain even more.
They have to choose and if the opt for damage cleanse power builds will destroy them much easier due to soft control and if they opt to cleanse control conditions they will die even more helpless to condies … No need to make it more complicated.
Also if you priorize, then you have to be aware that it might destroy or strengthen builds/condies. Putting burn on prio one would immidiately remove all condie builds that use it as main damage. If vulnerability gets lowest priority i will slaughter all with a power build. This would be one of the worst changes.
For me there are only a few classes i often loose to condies. Mesmer, necro and warrior (but he needs long). Accept that you can´t ignore condies in your builds if you engage one of them.
main error of a necro is to go on point too soon …. I main ele and always tell necro to stay behind me and start fighting at range … If he charges on point first it´s often lost ….
Good necros know this … and then we rip oponents appart.
i would love the -20%. None of the competative builds use tempestious aria and i don´t think it will affect PvE much. It might be that they fear it will push shouts to allow more offensive tempests dropping water …. And while it would be great for us it might be a goal to keep PvP tempest down to support and reserve offense to next elite ….
Because with lower CD it will give good weakness uptime which will allow agressive tempests like fresh air to have a mitigation option + might and not rely on healing.
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Balance doesnt matter. They need fun and build diversity.
Think of this, it´s more important then any e-sports balance.
Just be aware that build diversity comes from balance. Evrything that falls behind, especially if it has no purpose to counter something or is outclassed, also doesn´t matter for diversity.
I did a few matches yesterday in EU eavening. Nice gimik that might get me back to one one of my main builds i recently parked trying fire again. I prefer to play S/F ele with sage and used earth/arcane/tempest a lot.
Had a 3:4 on pint encounter going between my teammates firing traited arcane power and overloading air … 4 oponents down in a few seconds .. LoL. (I tried viper/leadership air/arcane/tempest with fresh air …) Got killed by a power shatter mesmer twice that match but otherwise i rocked …
This is what i tried. I am a bit concerned about condi removal here but did´t feel to bad .
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sigh … fast nerf for PvE that makes the skill questionable for dueling builds. It just robbed 20% of the 1:1 potential that it had before patch so it´s a nerf now unless you go for teamsupport with it.
Very strange nerfs.
Arch divider should have been a range nerf not CT
Adrenal health should be targeted not the signet.
Shield bash was unneccessary
Tount nerf was also strange and not needed….
Rest feels OK for me but well in total it feels too much.
leave it in strength but swap it with body blow ;-)
well traited GoEP ist a 20s stunbreaker that does add a condie burst and a boon. Maybe the untraited version is a bit weak but not shure.
I tried a bit going back to viper with leadership rune traiting glyphs and fresh air. Not shure if it can work now. In the past it was too squishy, but with sigil damage reduced maybe. Droped oponets quite hard with good damage. Died on most 1:2 but none of my 1:1. Had one 1:3 donwing two before going down myself.
The thing that makes me try air again is the glyph change. Traited i now can have healing on 16 sec CD and a bursty stun breaker on 20 sec which will give me a boon too.
in PvE this can rock hard up to being OP. In PvP the 240 range requires good teamplay and the ele should be skilled. Its strong offensive support, something i realy like just got surprised about the way it was implememented … Awkward builds that actually work are what i like :-)
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this D/D is nice oldschool and works. The thing i dislike … always earth/water …. It´s teamsupport is nearly lost and i am concerned that a thief can do this role better …
+1 … I got wrecked by thiefs on my ele and what i did is train and adapt build and train more … Now i am on the end of the food chain against thiefs … Needed a year (half to get decend) but that´s the way to go …
The nerf i hate on warrior is the bloody roar taunt reduction. This was what made it enjoyable for me pulling all to me….
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A few nerfs feel overshooting (why nerfs CD of gale song that was barely used?) and i don´t know if revenant got overbuffed. Globally its a good one. What i always hate if non meta is hit and diversity reduced. While some damage sigils on top builds added to much, some nice builds needed them to work. I will miss blood sigil and often used leeching :-).
Well but FA lost a good chunk of damage and if using glyph of power also weakness as defence or criple to kite. The new glyph version is a burst version that might loose hits not sustained damage.
And i hate all those water dependend builds more with each patch that says ele use water…
me too … a decent warrior killed by ele air OL ? If the warrior can play he hunts the ele …
After the patch dodging stuns got easier but i don´t expect to 100 – 0 a warrior with one OL unless he is AFK … I expect fighting warriors after the patch might be easier but i won´t expect a fast kill in either direction.
I hate the CD nerf on gale song most. A skill i think was not used much pushing the last one´s into unstable conduit. Basically it feels like ruining my exotic build using tempestious aria and gale song …
and the one with fire buff? Its so minor fire will still be out of meta in pvp.
Glyph of elemental power change is a nerf too. The removal of weakness is an aweful change for air builds droping one of their rare defences. It hits base ele harder then tempest. But the lower CD on the other side is good for condi builds this should be OK but how many ele condi builds are played ? I feel like quite exotic here …
e-sports must evolve. It comes if the game is fun. This is acieved with a combination of balance + diversity. Diversity also in secenarios so maps. This means diffrent builds, they can (should) have kind of a rock/paper/scissors. Diffrents tactics/strategies dependent on builds and so on … This is hard work for the class and balance developers and PvE focus makes it even harder but it is possible if there is a will to invest the resources.
ele doesn´t need water if he gets good condi removal in fire or as utility. But utility is dangerous because all thats add to water sustain just pushes ele into it. So anny condi removal and healing should have no synergy with water. Invigorating Torrets is the trait that makes support tempest so strong and pushes for water.
Latest balance patches showed very coutionous changes resulting in close to nothing.
I expect the sigil update and not much more… (Well i still hope more weak/unused skills get buffed).
Currently it´s like the following.
Dragonhunter or maybe even other guard builds are easy to use and powerful. You will get carless or low skilled players regulary.
Warrior: Most solid “Lonestar”
Thief: Powerful to win matches if you have good map awareness and know where to go but more then one in a team can cause a downfall.
Mesmer: If you are good it´s the carry match class.
Elementalist got mentioned and is a bit the oposite of dragonhunter. Elementalists are team dependent. In higher skill level play its a match winner for teamfights. In duo Q with a necromancer quite powerful. But the class can´t carry a bad team. The map control classes thief, mesmer and warrior are the good one´s to compensate a bad player.
Also i see lots of druids. Nearly all matches one on each side. I think people just like the hunter style with a strong bow and pet. The class is a very solid allrounder but i personally don´t find it a great threat or carry class.
the problem is “Meta” so low diversity gets booring.
But: it´s mostly balanced and mainly power based ….
This is not a pure reflex based FPS! If you want this i suggest to look for other games. I played CS and when i want this i won´t play a game like GW2.
woudl be good but don´t know what will happen. Most still won´t know what it means.
We need an option to replace water. Earth is mitigation so you stand those important seconds longer and use fire to do more damage with a few blinds as help. Condi removal in fire might help to drop water. You mentined the fire/arcane/tempest which is one of the versions that should be fun to play. A single clear linked to fire aura is not enough. Leap finishers and conjures are not a good way to link defence on it.
One with fire:
Gain fire aura on healing skill.
+33% fire aura uptime
Remove a condition on aplying fire aura.
choosing two elements and gaining more focused on them was the ele type i was looking for. A more specialized one. Of course i don´t know if my beloved fire/earth combination might be useful. I never liked the water dependency of ele . I start to dream throwing lava bolts ^^.
What i always though with such a change was to have a weapon set for each element. So i can do something like staff for fire and sword for earth. Well i might then go sword, dagger for fire and scepter focus in earth. But i see for earth everyone will use focus .
Such an elite actually has the potential to create multiple builds that are used but we will see.
Not shure if thief is OP but he it´s basically correct that killing a good thief is not realy possible. He will run away and fight, cap elswehere an then come back. I kill thief it they miscalculate my build trying to kill me. Nearly all my thief kills are the one´s that think i am close to death and come in for the killing blow while already below 50% on their own.
Well at least there are not so much top thiefs.
Invigorating torrets was patched in and i immidiatly thought oh my, very bad decision. Heavy water synergy making this mandatory support …. There was much complaning about tempest and low usage and then someone brought torrets as easy sollution trowing diversity in the process to keep up with the power creep from others …
Imagin tempest without torrets…. (And maybe with an offensive trait instead and -20% shour CD on aria …)
while this elite can be great Azel said it. Most don´t trust Anet to get it worked out well :-/.
HoT did hit diversity hard that another blow might leave GW2 on the floor. Powercreep is bad for long term motivation/exitement, only varity and new content (this is obviosed focused but doesn´t exite long) can hold people. To keep the playerbase it´s always huge diversity which is balaced as a system (not loking at spec A v.s. spec b). If i can play a unique character and be competative with it, then it will be hard for me to leave that back… If all is the same and/or my way to play is always at the end of the food chain i will leave. An no new contet with pretty pictures can change this. It´s feelings.
Tempest might not be popular from playstyle and ele ist more difficult then other classes but it´s not garbage and i enjoy it.
this is one point why i said i fear sword powercreep. The mechanic itself and never the sword skills have to carry all weapon sets ….
it´s still bad to give rewards for loosing in a competative mode. The combination of good rewards only for winning is what drives people to improve and fight for.
Pretty sure resistance was supposed answer to the condi change. You know, the change might be not good when it results in more powercreep (which happened in condi change case).
I’m pretty sure resistance was a just a interesting mechanic for revs, that was later applied to warriors as a fix for their issues.
I see it the same way.
it will definitly change ele gameplay, but it might move more to be like other classes so not entirely new.
Basically it is what i also suggested but never expected the effort would be done.
I hope that sword isn´t powercreep. Generally i hope that for all classes.
What i fear is that mantras and sword is so powerful that it compensates for the higher CD´s on only 2 elements and in anny PvP environement water will be mandatory …
As result this might lower the skill flor on ele and leave us with 1-2 “viable” pvp/WvW specs.
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Blood is one of my favorites. I use blood and force in my GS and nullification and air or generosity in my second set. I don´t swap to often after engagement due to prefering strength over discipline. I engage with a sword leap and often bull rush then swap to GS. I play burst oriented with the +20% damage. So if i catch something in the taunt it´s usualy over. Thiefs are down in two hits the haste and +10% +20% makes me do up to 20k damage in the taunt frame using demolisher amulet and traiting armored assoult over defy pain … If i rip protection from an ele in the opening leap and he´s not too good — splat …
As ele i know i can die in seconds. It´s usualy when i am hit by a boon corrupt from a necro and focused. So kind of coordinated ele destruction. Lazy me = dead. I must swap earth immidiately. For an ele protection is life or death. I can stand a stun but can´t live long without protection.
OK warrior :-). I play ele main and power war as backup … Yes i know don´t lead with headbut ;-). I have bull rush on the toolbar and don´t use rush to engage i use it after arch divider for a very hard folow up hit. I use taunt on zerk and this is the real killer after they break stun from headbut … I also use boonrip sigil in my sword and open with it to rip stabiltiy or protection … (I use sword for the leap to engage or move faster)
And i see … stupid ele if it tries to stay close to a warrior …
I don´t say i win against a warrior as ele, but i endure quite long kiting. If he uses berserkers stance immidiately and i avoide arch divider i can even win ….
I agree that a lot of things are good. The system needs some kickstarter and the poll to lock classes had been a chance to improve but … Don´t focus on the top 1%.
Uh how do you kill ele in 10 sec? I have to play realy careless if that happens to me. In a duel i concentrate i am rarely brought down in less then a minute … Very good necros might do it but even warriors won´t. I die to most good warriors but might drag them over the whole map …
well i had over 300 S6 now i guess about 50 …. Might try to finish rewards…
to select role and then get points acording it sounds like a step forward to measure contribution. Still there is no detailed plan which roles and how to measure it.
I play ele but an off meta build. I usually get the defender. I also get healing in about half of the matches but i use sage amulet not menders and am often outheald by e.g. a warrior, guard or druid. I would need some hybrid role because i can win lots of 1:1 if forced for it and can get top damage.
So unless there is a clear concep that Anet invests effort in, any measurement of top stats is useless.
Well i only see one easy solution for many problems. Per class MMR (thus locking class) and a maximum MMR spread in a team like 200-300.
Unfortunately with a low population this might lead to extream Q times. A workaround might be that after each 2 min Q the maximum MMR diffrence moves up for a player. So the longer you wait the larger the diffrence. So breaking Q can reset this giving the player a choice.
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Ele is strong in PvP. Yes mainly in teamfights. I have problems agaisnt heavy CC warriors but it lasts long. I struggle agaisnt mesmers but they are top 1:1 so be it. Necro is cruel in teamfights agaisnt ele so if the team doesn´t focus necro you die but this is usually the same without ele …
The only two changes needed are Revert the Confusion to no Longer passively proc in Pvp and WvW and Remove the Passive Tick of Torment off in the same game modes.
This ….
And it three builds and a few nice one´s not considered meta.
when i go to pvp i usually encounter 1-2 condi builds which is nearly always war, necro or mesmer.
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Blinding ashesper target ICD and 6sec. Burnign precision 3 sec ICD.
And yeson swap 3sec burn instead of damage would be nice too.
And if not per signet then one with fire might give fire aura on healing skill used.
I realy love playing ele and this is scepter ele but yes in PvP carrying is very hard if your team is bad. I see so huge diffrences. If i have one or two that actually play knowing there is an ele nearby i usually win all teamfights .. If not my mobility is often not sufficient to carry.
Currently it seems the system discourages playing after you reached platin (only playing to stop decay). Also many will stop after geting maximum ascended shards.
If you like ele, play it. I don´t raid but i enjoy ele PvE, PvP and WvW. In PvP i use sage over menders. I think it´s better in the solo/duo setup.
At the beginning i asked myself WTF after i got pulled into holes by a dragonhunter but i learend to get better and actually enjoyed it (I main ele).
i agree. I loved the falls. The map was a nice change to the others. (Well i disliked the cannon but …). The map got “Normalized” to be more competative…
It´s all about fun and to creat a diverse environment for me. If the super top player gets kicked off the map due to a lucky blow so be it. It´s actually fun and will even out in the long run. It will actually just be part of skilled play. Never had a problem with it. But people are diffrent.
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