(edited by Xillllix.3485)
Super speed only work in combat and the duration is so short it makes no difference.
Cleansing fire does nothing unless you have the cantrip equipped, then it uses it for you. The reason why someone would want this is beyond my understanding.
So now I need 20 points in water to get condition remove but 20 points in arcana as well to still have my Elemental Attunement. That means I can no longer play my build, because after the change I’d need 80 points to get the same build I had for 70 points yesterday + I’m not even talking about the botched Arcane wave…
Anet said something about buffing the ele, but all I see is that my s/d was nerfed and that my build is no longer playable. Thanks for nothing I guess.
Same here: This was my build before the patch (staff):
10/15/0/15/30
Fire: Might on cantrip
Air: Bolt on attn + 20% damage increase to foes under 20% hp
Water: Regen on cantrips
Arcana: Evasive Arcana and the usuals.
With the new patch I couldn’t get my healing on cantrip anymore because Soothing Disruption was nerfed (moved to Master).
With a cantrip build I now had to invest 20 in water instead of 15. I had to lose my Lightning bolt on air attunement (nerf) or Might on cantrips (nerf) or Evasive arcana (nerf), just to keep my healing on cantrips (necessary because eles die all the time).
Granted I would get a new adept water skill, but I just didn’t want to invest in water and now I am forced too. This is the exact opposite of what Anet supposedly wanted to do. In my book that’s a failure.
I tried all night to find a build as good, finally I settled with a fresh air build, similar to the one I had before bu with points in water instead of arcana:
0/30/0/30/10
I lost my blast finisher on elemental attunement… I guess it’s because of that nerf that they gave us a blast finisher on healing. They new somehow that with the nerf in water adept we would have to take points out of arcana if we wanted to be offensive and thus lose our only blast with staff.
With my new build I think I’m playing the game like they tested it, and it somehow works ok. It’s just less fun than my 10/15/0/15/30 build, because their new healing skill is not good enough for me thus I have lost my ability to blast fields and stack might.
I had a build full of trait-line diversity. If the point was to get me out of arcana, they’ve done terribly because if anything I’m now spending twice the points in both that and water. Elemental Attunement and Cleansing Wave feel pretty necessary for me.
^ This. I mean, what is their point ? The whole goal about leaving Arcane, reducing the attunement-swap-cooldowns (which is a great idea) is now thrown out of the window, because those are such 2 basic, natural skills for me and I bet a lot of other Eles to have, that they’re forcing us to spend 20 more points in Water and Arcane.
Please, whoever’s in charge of those changes, is there a way of reconsidering?
We told them over a month before they made these changes. They don’t care. It’s another nerf, they just didn’t want to say it because our class is already so under-powered and the amount of negative post about the poor ele balancing.
Considering how they moved some of the most used ele traits further into arcana and water, those who gets most hurt by those changes are those who had very little points in those trait lines in the beginning.. So in that matter, they failed in addressing build diversity..
It’s not like they didn’t knew. Many of us including me told them so early on, when they announced these changes. I even messaged a developer privately because I thought I had had a great idea making the earth trait “Earthen Blast” a blast finisher to compensate you the extra finisher you get when going 30 points into arcana.
He didn’t reply as you can imagine. Now we get this update, with nothing good for me beside the fgs finally cast-able when running.
Huge buff: Ele can run away from battle better with his op fgs.
Just look at the video where the people responsible for the class changes explain them and you’ll understand everything about why at every patch everything get’s out of balance more.
“Oh look at that, my guardian is fully healed in 1 sec” “Oh well… It might look OP but it’s only for specific builds”.
Next think you’ll know the ele will get destroyed in 1 vs 1 by glass canon guardians that fully heal themselves in 2 sec.
It’s a disappointment…. 2 months of work for this over a thousand comments, same bunker build will still be used by 90% of the people because nothing else compares and my more offensive build was nerfed so it no longer work.
I’ll have to go more bunker now.
Anet, you can’t just nerf water and say : “Go with more offensive builds”, we are getting destroyed by every classes in WvW.
Still getting 2-shotted out of nowhere.
I was with 1 other very good ele and a thief easily killed both of us. I almost had him at one point, he just stealted and came back at full hp. This game is so imbalanced its a joke.
They totally kittened up my build moving Soothing Disruption to Master. Every build I am trying now is worse than my previous build. It’s a huge nerf for me.
Real kitten.
:( they broke my build as expected. Now I have to spend more point in water or lose evasive arcana.
It actually really cool your in there dueling or just chatting a big guild group comes to watch then your like is it a GvG? You spread the word in guild chat people come to watch its like a impromptu important event if you are into the scene. I find it pretty awesome.
Imagine how awesome it would be if something like this could be officially implemented in the game. Imagine the money Anet would make.
If and when the resources are available to build GvG as a game mode, the team assigned to it will do the best they are able, but that time is not now.
No disrespect, I like GW2, the fact that its a beautiful free to play game, that there is a Mac version, that you communicate with us and that you are not afraid to try new things (pretty much everything beside the class imbalance and random loot), but:
You haven’t even started work on GvG and your not even sure you’ll do? GvG was the selling point of GW1 for me and I jumped in GW2 expecting guild halls and all that stuff to be in there.
Beside the new WvW map I sincerely hope that you have more maps planned for WvW in 2014 if you do not have a gamemode we can consider as a Esport that can keep us playing.
GvG, in its current form, is a player-organized and player-run gametype and for the time being…
I should say it, but that’s only because it is considered an essential game mode by many to a game called “Guild-Wars”… My friends have been waiting and hoping for a proper GvG mode since the launch of the game.
I’d love for them to realize that their nerfs were superfluous, and shouldn’t have happened.
They love it, every time they see a thief or warrior destroy an ele in full ascended gear in a few seconds they must be thinking “kitten we did a great job with balance”.
Arcane Resurrection is going up to master tier instead of Renewing Stamina.
Windborne Dagger is going to function outside of combat.
Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier.
Cantrip Mastery is moving to adept tier.
Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incmoing critical hits. 10s recharge.
So after the thousand of post on how to fix the ele and mostly negative reactions they’ve decided to take almost none of it into consideration.
Soothing Disruption is moving to master tier: Breaks my offensive build with only 15 in water and will force me to put 5 more points in water.
I had found a nice balanced not-bunker build and now they are sending me back to the bunk. That’s all there is for me, with the other classes buff we might as well go total bunker and be there only to cast water fields to be blasted by the zerg while warriors run around with 15k dmg killshots.
is a 2% increase in precision transferred to healing (from 5% to 7%) perceivable? Can it even increase our crit chance by 1%?
Why not 10% instead of 7%? Would that be so OP that it would break the game balance like warrior hammer did for 2 months?The numbers are a standard for all professions….
I meant healing numbers not crit chance…
ok, so if the numbers are standard why aren’t the base stats? If the Warrior is gonna have twice more hp why can’t the ele have more healing or precision then?
Anyway, seems to me the game isn’t gonna get more balanced with this patch. However it does look like they tried to do something.
Another solution could be to lower the base health differences. Instead of 10k/15k/20k, the values could be 12,500/15,000/17,500.
There are problems with the mathematical curves they are using.
Every stats should flatten itself out around 100% or a maximum, so that and increase of 5% critical damage between 50-55% has a perceivable difference but between 100-105% does not. It would prevent people abusing the loophole in their damage curves and healing curves..
Similarly the heath pool difference needs to be compressed and the strongest skills of each classes should do comparable damage in 1 vs 1 on a balanced build.
I think every ele here is used to “buffs” being underwhelming and our nerf being very dramatic.
Tomorrow my current build will cease to work (one of the adept trait I use will be moved to master). It is a supposed “unintended” accident to a new buff that offers more offensive variety.
At this point I’m out of comment, and I believe some other people are too. In my guild we don’t know what to expect. Every improvement possible to do with the ele and every mistake made in the nerfs have been explained in details on this forum. They tell us they read everything but really I wonder, with all the good suggestions I’ve read here and all the stuff they come up with that seems questionable.
Looking back:
In practice, is the new “Super speed” more fun or useful to use than the old Ride the Lightning?
Has removing Mist-form healing balanced the game considering you can die of conditions in Mistform and that other classes got condition boosts?
Similar questions for tomorrow:
is a 2% increase in precision transferred to healing (from 5% to 7%) perceivable? Can it even increase our crit chance by 1%?
Why not 10% instead of 7%? Would that be so OP that it would break the game balance like warrior hammer did for 2 months?
Will diamond skin take effect if you are hit by a 7k hit that inflicts bleeds? Because if it doesn’t then they have just made another bad useless trait.
He is definitely not a bunker ele. Either he is running blue/white items, or glass. I only ever killshot eles for 15k when they are full glass armor full glass traits with vuln on them., and I have 15-20 stacks might.
1- I am bunker “Enough” to my taste. More bunker than I am and I will make no damage at all nor play this game anymore.
I have 19000 hp without my stacks of Guard defense, 21500 with full stack (with food).
That’s twice my class base health pool, and it’s more than my friends bunker eles. My toughness is around 1650, you can’t have much more than that on an ele without going full bunker.
I can attain those stats only because everything I have is full ascended stats.
If I go more bunker than that my most powerful skill will hit for under 4k at MAX might stacks against an enemy without toughness, it doesn’t make Killshot any less OP.
And even full bunker the Warrior still has more health than most light class bunker.
Instead of crying OP everytime someone whoops your butt, try playing the thing you are attempting to talk about.
Well thanks for judging, I mean after over 1500 hours of play I come here to complain about a skill and here you go “I’m crying Op everytime”.
I was actually defending Thief Backstab, because it’s part of their specialty in 1 vs 1, I understand it, and they are a light armor class. I always survive the initial burst of a thief, they always get me when I have exhausted my run away skills.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
They can hit so hard yes. but then they are so squishy you could do the same with burning speed+firegrab.
This is kinda the point of the skill. Else it would had been useless.
Its like complaining about sniper do more damage than a pistol in a fps game.
Most warriors don’t use it anyway because it miss so much their better off just autoattacking a couple times. Kill shot is a burst skill go figure.
Balancing classes cannot work like this. You cannot have a class going around that has a 2 sec to cast skill doing 7-8k more damage than a total glass canon backstab or firegrab (both require skill to land, burning and stealth+side hit and are from class with twice less health!).
They need to change the damage curve of the game toward a cap so that when going full 100% berserker burst canon a skill like Killshot you cannot damage more than 10-12k on a burst (which is more than enough).
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
Very good thread I agree with pretty much everything you have to say.
Generally the game classes are unbalanced, but some other aspect of skills have the opposite problem, they have been too much normalized. Just thinking about the AoE nerf for example which makes inevitable the Stacking.
Why would a class who’s specialty is AoE dmg, that has smaller damage per skill and less health be limited to the same amount of AoE targets as the other class? This is the result of overbalancing and leveraging. Makes the game flat and without contrast, thus encouraging people to run only the meta builds which are a guaranteed “win” scenario.
Immobilise needs to be looked at. Not fun having huge durations of it
Agreed.
You were hit by a troll build who’s only function is to pick people off with kill shot. You have my condolences.
It is the first time I was faced with that sort of damage in all my hours of playing, I’ll admit that, to be a troll build it was.
Next time just find him and pressure him before he can fire again. You had a total of 5 seconds during which he was channeling. And if he can get 15k on a kill-shot on you, you are not nearly as tanky as you think.
I’m talking about balance. The most tanky ele would perhaps have been hit for 12-13k yet would barely be able to scratch that warrior.
I am not the first one to say it, and I am not talking about the thief backstab which is quite tolerable considering it does only 8k dmg for a very squishy build.
But this: 10,706 dmg and 15,247 dmg Killshots within 5-6 seconds from a warrior that has more health than my quite balanced Ele, my Ele which takes 5 seconds to cast a freaking meteor that does 4k dmg to him IF it hits at all.
During the a very short time window that Warrior does about 30k dmg. I fully healed after the first Killshot which brought me to 6k health, but the second shot brought down 80% of my health, and that is only because I have a half-bunker ele with 20k hp, else its an instant one-shot kill against any normal ele.
What are we supposed to think about that sort of balancing?
You are obviously getting hit by some crappy thieves then. A thief that is equally as dangerous as a kill-shot warrior should be hitting you for at least 12k with just backstab alone. Not to mention a properly strung together Mug-C&D-Backstab.
Stop complaining that a one-trick pony build can insta-kill you. That’s all they can do.
I will not stop complaining, I’ve played this game 1500 hours and I know something’s OP when I see it. Thief do only 8k dmg max on backstab to me because I have good toughness.
How on earth did you manage to get hit by a second? One is understandable, and if you are squishy enough to get one-shotted that’s just a risk of the build you’ve chosen. But getting hit by two seems flat-out impossible.
1- I didn’t get one shotted and I’m one of the least squishy ele you can find out there.
2- I never thought 2 OP burst like this would be possible in a row, specially not from a guy hiding 1500 away.
Kill shot has like a 2-3 second channeling that is very easy to see and time your dodge.
Yeah right… Ice Shard is easy to dodge and doesn’t do half that damage even at max-crit total squishy ele with 10k hp. You can’t make a skill that does 3 times more damage than every other skill crit and then say you just have to dodge.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
-Dodge it
-Instantly focus him
-Go into melee
When there is a bunch of red circles on the ground there is no way to know which one is a OP kill shot and not just some necro condition or something, specially if the warrior is 1500 away (makes it hard to focus when he has even more range than you as a staff ele).
Ele can’t go into melee against a warrior and expect to win. But even if your feeling suicidal and wished to take out your daggers and charge you can’t, our class still lacks the weapon switch button.
Dear Abys
Magnetic Aura.
1- Magnetic aura is good but would only have blocked one of the 2 shots.
2- You can’t see it coming anyway.
I am not the first one to say it, and I am not talking about the thief backstab which is quite tolerable considering it does only 8k dmg for a very squishy build.
But this: 10,706 dmg and 15,247 dmg Killshots within 5-6 seconds from a warrior that has more health than my quite balanced Ele, my Ele which takes 5 seconds to cast a freaking meteor that does 4k dmg to him IF it hits at all.
During the a very short time window that Warrior does about 30k dmg. I fully healed after the first Killshot which brought me to 6k health, but the second shot brought down 80% of my health, and that is only because I have a half-bunker ele with 20k hp, else its an instant one-shot kill against any normal ele.
What are we supposed to think about that sort of balancing?
Thief by far
Mesmers / Guardians after
Ele has Mist form to escape and that’s it.
It used to be good, but since they nerfed it and prevented us from healing in mistform it can be a death trap against zergs, as your conditions still tick and you can’t do anything about it. Static field/ Ice Field can slow down people a bit behind you, but if they cleanse their conditions your toasted.
That is definately not a bad skill. That is really good actually. Healing, blasting, AoE damage in ONE spell.
Huh no, It will be about twice less healing than Ether Renewal in practice, AoE damage will be negligible.
Only the blast is interesting, but at the price of losing half your healing, no way.
lol 128 damage, why not 1 damage if you really want to make it crappy? Are we once again having a laugh at the elementalist?
It’s a healing skill that heals less but could heal more if your extremely lucky agains’t a group (again confirming that Anet doesn’t care about the ele when confronted with less than 5 opponents or in 1 VS 1) BUT don’t feel bad they say, because it does crappy damage on top of it!
It has a 1200 range… Because with a healing spell that suck that much you’ll want to stay far away from battle. [edit: oh they removed the range on it, great!]
The only good thing it has going for it is the fact it is a blast finisher but I think that’s the kind of skill you equip once to try and never use again because it will end up being so much worse than Ether Renewal.
Good lord, the mesmer heal is the most overpowered thing I have ever seen in this game. Do they realize how easy it is to keep clones up with clone on dodge? We will now have mesmers with better heal per second than hs warrior, which is mind bogglingly broken with how many active defenses mesmers have.
But… But… We have RTL the most OP skill ever…
Well thanks for the blast i guess, but still horrible why we need to get into melee range??
really………
In the 1500 hours I’ve played this game I have never seen an Anet tag playing an elementalist. And in the last tournament demonstration thing they had no elementalist but every other class. Now with the next patch they are nerfing my build. I just don’t think they have a clue what they are doing with this class.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
Didn’t see anyone in my guild complain about the reward and they are all hardcore WvWers.
This complaining must come from the PvE folks that did the achievements only for the chest.
A unique shiny Gold, Silver and Bronze dye would have made everyone happy I believe.
Sometimes it’s the simplest things… doesn’t have to be huge; Just a little something original instead of a certain quantity of stuff you can get everywhere else.
Guild Wars 2 isn’t a job after all.
They should perhaps call a meeting at Anet and start brainstorming ideas again instead of randomizing the rewards for everything until they lose their interest.
The finisher isn’t bad, but is it the best they could have come up with?
The dragonite and shards are just meaningless items of that loot package, so are the green/yello/ items.
I have nothing against the res of teammates.
The problem is the down people that are rallying every time someone dies, it makes no sense:
15 vs 15:
You have 10 enemies down (you have 5 more players up than the opposing team), one of your guys die, 8 enemy get back up, you lose. It’s just stupid.
Things that make use of the landscape. Asuran storm generator for example.
Movable siege like a chariot or catapult on wheels
I was just rereading some of the patch notes when I decided to do some calculating for my build. I hope I’m wrong, but I think my individual attunement cooldowns will be slower:
Pre-update: 20 Arcana * 2% recharge rate = 40% recharge rate, 16 seconds * 40% = 9.6 seconds.
Post update: 20 Arcana * 1% recharge rate = 20% recharge rate, 13 seconds * 20% = 10.4 seconds.
So basically, my recharge rate will be slower by .8 seconds post update. Is this correct?
Seems that once again Anet is accomplishing the opposite of what they tried to accomplish, as it was the case when they nerfed our healing to stop bunker builds. We will have to put more points into Arcana (or as much) and my Adept water trait is moving to Master, so I’ll have to spend more points in water as well.
Nothing we can do really, they don’t want an ele to have a chance against a warrior. As they suggested in the last patch, playing an ele is all about “support” for party or group.
LFlash is a skill that should be trait-able:
33% increase in damage and 300 increase in range, for 20 points in air or something.
Well this patch certainly isnt going to buff us to top levels or nerf the top guys down to ours. So then we’re talking a month or two for the next patch which is obviously not going to single handedly fix us either, so add a couple more months on that and you have a very optimistic estimate of when Ele will no longer be the Jokes of all Trades.
Just play something else.
The staff ele isn’t a joke in large fights. However it has the same chance of winning a 1 vs 1 as you have getting a precursor drop. Somehow Anet think that is proper balance and that it’s no big deal if a class cannot win a 1 vs 1 even if it is full equipped with ascended gear and the player plays like a god.
“Soothing Disruption move to master tier.”
Nooooooooooooooo!!!! This is an horrible, horrible, mistake and breaks my build.
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
To answer your questions
1. the trait increases my critical hit damage.2. I stay alive more than I die. I stay to the side or in the back of the zerg.
The extra survival your build has would be welcome for smaller groups because I found people like to target squishy classes. But my crits do 3k-4k without might and at 25 stacks I have done 9-10k damage. But when I see some of the changes that make it in Dec. 10th I’ll look for a way to add more survival to my build.
OK, I used to run a glass canon so I know how fun it can be (before the mist-form nerf it was great)
My point is that I can quickly stack might to 16 (19 after next patch) in 3-4 seconds and do as much damage with much more survival. 75% of the time I die last with the commander in huge battles.
After the next patch I might be able to reach 25 stacks without help (22 for sure with the new healing blast).
It’s just an arena but no game mode has been implemented. You have to organize the fight on some website or this forum.
I’ve express a lot of criticism on this forum but it’s only because I think this game is great and has great potential to grow.
I think so far Anet did a good job, not perfect obviously, class balance is still a problem with the overpowered hammer-warrior and underpowered staff ele (and between these extreme), the world didnt grow much in both WvW and world map, random loot is still questionable.
However what they did was good and sometimes great. SAB, Southsun and Sanctum were outstanding.
Like people said, its a free to play game, so take a break if you need it and come back once more content has been released in 2014.
The only new WvW content released in that time was the achievement list and some lonely arena for GvG.
The matchup were ok I guess.
After watching this, I’m kinda curious what a 156 omega golem zerg vs zerg vs zerg battle would look like lol. Each server makes the cap of 52 omegas and meets out on the battle field lol
This would be awesome!
Anet should make it possible to trigger stuff like that as an “event”
Anyway amazing video! Wished I was there.
Even through a some players lately were spying on us in our TS and that injured your reputation on the SBI server FA surely deserved to win it anyway and we can’t blame a whole server for the few isolated incidents.
So well done on this super long league! Hopefully next time we fight it will be on some new maps. Very fun battle this week.
I used to run a build very similar to yours except I never used glyph and used the Fresh air trait, cantrips are stronger and give you stability, stun breakers and mobility. Lots of combos require lightning flash as well.
I’m using this now (I’ve been using it for a few months):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhEmgbyx5wjEA0DnEKog8gFlHzsjNA-jUCBYjAkIAJPCRpPasVNFRjVVLIqkY6XoqYRWIAZLAA-w
It’s unusual but I love it.
It gives much better defence than yours without it being a (lame) bunker build.
At first glance it may seem like I do less damage than you but however it gives me a constant might stacks (up to 19 by myself; 16 very quickly – 19 after a second fire field blast) which increase my raw damage and condition damage considerably (at 19 stacks I get 665 more condition damage and power. I run a sustained 14 stacks of might alone (490 extra power and cnd dmg). So my base power is more around 2300 and my conditions around 700 (yours are at 20 without might…).
I have faster recharge with 30 points in arcana as well as evasive arcana, the best ele trait which gives me an extra blast (earth dodge with evasive arcana is a blast finisher).
Quick Explanation on Might Stacking:
Each of my 3 cantrip give me health 1300hp regen and 3 stacks of might (9 total), I get 1 stack of might on fire attunement, 3 stacks extra for sigil of battle. I only have to use burning retreat and dodge forward in earth to blast an extra 3 (16 stacks at that point) and if I repeat that 6 sec after I get 19 stacks total.
To sum it up in comparison to your build, my build:
- 33% more toughness
- Over twice more healing power
- Attunement recharge is 33% faster
- Condition damage stat is usually over 30 times yours, 10 at base
- Extra blast finisher that doesn’t take a skill slot.
However:
You have better crit damage with your build and can sustain your crits. You sure can dish out damage. Personally I’m happy with my meteors hitting around 5k dmg at 25 stacks of might and having better condition damage than I used to.
2 questions for you:
1- Why use a trait that boost your crit chance every 15 sec if they are already around 70% (50%+fury)? Your so low on toughness your probably gonna drop in 2 hits and your already pretty much certain to crit already.
2- Can you stay alive in the middle of a zerg during a 30 vs 30 battle? Are you sure that your extra crits do not impair on your ability to survive? because dpike damage is one thing, but sustained damage is another. In my book it’s better to throw 3 meteor showers + at 4-5k crits in a zerg battle than only 1 at 6k crits.
Anyway, sorry for the long post, please try my build if you have a chance and let me know what you think.
Edit: my cantrips also give vigor with regen and might…
(edited by Xillllix.3485)
This would discourage holding, since the bases are gonna be lost in a day. ANET should do things to improve defending not make it worse.
How come? Holding something 24 hours is still a pretty long hold. Actually they could reset the scores but not the status of keeps and what is held.
WvW scores should reset with daily: Each day a server would mark 2 points for winning or 1 point for second place and at the end of a week the winning server would maximum score of 12 (6 day week).
A WvW week would have 6 days, the 7th day would be used for overtime in case of a draw and would take place in Edge of the Mist for everyone.
Rewards for the losing server should be proportionate to the amount of points made while it could be fixed for the winning server.
Upgrades should be 75% faster to compensate for the faster game pace and could have boost over the current stats increase the provide to walls and gate.
While my suggestion may need some work upon it would certainly be more interesting than the current format considering not all of us can play this game every day.
You are right it is bugged.
They shouldn’t have removed the damage and cripple on it for as well.
All I can imagine is that they are preparing a massive expansion. Else they’ll lose too many of their players in 2014 because of the lack of areas to discover.
So after reading the notes again I came to the conclusion that after the next patch a lv80 staff ele will still be able to win against a lv20 warrior in 1vs1.
Glyph of Storms: make it do 5 times more damage to be worth using
Lightning Flash: Make it a stun breaker again
Personally I’m so sick of the old WvW maps I’ll stay into EotM until they release something else.