Guild Wars 2

Elementalist like BM Ranger followed a Rotation, and its not difficult.

But anyway, I think people are confusing things.

If you slap on a Shortbow and run around and shoot the number 1 key, Its viable in a zerg fight.. Its very easy to play, but is it effective in anything but that instance? Not really…Really no different from a Zerker Rifle Warrior.

Take a P/D thief, This actually requires just as little thought as a Shortbow Ranger…

But does anyone here think either of those classes are remotely easier to play than a Mace/Shield and Greatsword Warrior right now?

Nope..They’re about the same level of skill required, only one is a 100x more effective.

What about a Condition Necromancer, Is that a really hard class to play? not really.

D/D elementalist might have a lot of abilities to play, But again like the BM Ranger its not rocket science, Its a Rotation that you follow.

The difference between a D/D Elementalist/BM Ranger and a Shortbow Ranger is Rotation and that’s simply it.

None of them require a lot of thought.

Maugetarr.6823:

Xsorus.2507:

That’s not a draw back.

Cause they’re not doing damage to you.

Esp when Stealth gives you so many benefits.

Now if Stealth didn’t let you heal/remove conditions you might have a point, Because The other person would be getting those benefits while you weren’t.

But considering most thieves can stealth at half health, and come out 4 seconds later with full health and all the conditions removed off of them, You’re not getting a drawback by stealthing.

How do thieves get to full health 4 seconds later? The heal in stealth is only about 330 HPS meaning about 1300 or so health by the end of that. If you have more than 1 damaging condition on you (very likely against engis and necros) all you’re effectively doing is canceling one out until it might get removed at the end of 3 seconds. Other professions have both better passive and active condi removal. Lets take cleansing ire on the warrior for example (comparable since its in their toughness line also); cleansing ire rewards the warrior for being more aggressive instead of backing off, resulting in 3 conditions removed every 7 3/4 seconds while encouraging them to attack for the condition clear. It’s the equivalent to us getting the benefits of ‘while in stealth’ to ‘upon revealed’ instead. That would cause you to benefit from keeping up pressure rather than having to drop pressure 50% or so of the time to gain a noticeable benefit from traiting into stealth.

A. a 1300 Point Heal every few seconds is incredibly powerful. Just look at warriors, who don’t stealth, and you can see how a heal every couple seconds is powerful.

B. You have access to a Heal that removes Most of the damaging conditions off of you, You have a very good Condition Removal ability with the cleanse while in stealth as well. If you’re dying because of conditions that’s on you.

C. Cleansing Ire is incredibly powerful, But then again Warriors are over the top right now, If you want to compare your Cleaning Ability, look at Rangers. We remove 3 conditions every 10 seconds. This is a GM trait, You can remove 4 Conditions every 10 Seconds (5 if you’re really lucky) this is an Adept Trait. All it requires you to do is Stealth, which you’re doing anyway.

If you want to see how powerful Stealth is with these abilities tacked onto them, Don’t drop 30 points in Shadow Arts, and run around WvW for a bit.

Excalibur.9748:

Xsorus.2507:

That’s not a draw back.

Cause they’re not doing damage to you.

Esp when Stealth gives you so many benefits.

Now if Stealth didn’t let you heal/remove conditions you might have a point, Because The other person would be getting those benefits while you weren’t.

But considering most thieves can stealth at half health, and come out 4 seconds later with full health and all the conditions removed off of them, You’re not getting a drawback by stealthing.

You have to trait for heal on stealth. And classes like warrior with healing signet can heal while the thief is healing in stealth so like I said, the drawback is that the enemy is healing while you’re doing 0 damage.

Another drawback is that you can’t cap objectives while stealthed.

Those 2 drawbacks combined is why S/D is superior to D/P in sPvP.

Also…there is NO guarantee whatsoever that you won’t be damaged during stealth. I can think of many situations why a thief might be damaged while stealthed. It’s not an invincibility mode. I agree if stealth = invincibility then yea it’s OP.

I never said anything about S/D or D/P and sPvP (and in sPvP is actually nerfed compared to World vs World)

Also are you really trying to say that the heal isn’t powerful because Warriors are overpowered right now with healing signet? News flash, Warriors are overpowered, That doesn’t make Stealth any less over the top.

And short of sPvP, unless you’ve gotten rooted before hand or stunned before you went in stealth, You shouldn’t be getting hit.

There is a reason the meta for GvG hasn’t changed

Its Warriors/Guardians/Ele’s and Necros for a reason.

That’s not a draw back.

Cause they’re not doing damage to you.

Esp when Stealth gives you so many benefits.

Now if Stealth didn’t let you heal/remove conditions you might have a point, Because The other person would be getting those benefits while you weren’t.

But considering most thieves can stealth at half health, and come out 4 seconds later with full health and all the conditions removed off of them, You’re not getting a drawback by stealthing.

So I played a little bit of WvW today, I didn’t notice a huge glaring problem with the buff.

Mainly because the other servers were holding theirs and ours every now and again.

Before someone says “That rewards overpopulated side”

I’m on SBI, and we have a 100k point advantage over BP (the next closest)

Now I’m sure on really out numbered servers, You’re getting creamed, But lets be honest..You were going to get creamed either way..

Kaon.7192:

Xsorus.2507:

Incurafy.6329:

If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.

You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?

Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.

It’s really baffling that they chose to keep the Revealed duration increase in sPvP only, where Stealth was already less viable than in both WvW and PvE…

Not to mention the effort it takes in sPvP to unlearn the muscle memory developed by the fluent Stealth attack + full auto-chain rotation in other modes.

Oh trust me, I was baffled at the time as well, Since I made videos showing how stupid stealth was in this game, then they changed it, then reverted it the next patch in the bloody mode it was overpowered in.

sPvP of course is a completely different beast. There is a reason things like Spirit Rangers were oped in that mode and not in World vs World.

Anet though has proven though time and time again, They have virtually zero idea of how to balance a game, let alone multiple modes of it. I mean you have to be inept to pull some of the balance decisions in this game.

Stealth in this game has always been over the top.

I mean lets examine what thieves were saying month’s ago when we said “Stealth is out of line”

They said things like “It only lasts a few seconds, We’re revealed every now and again, we’re not perma stealthed”

But right now, Thieves in this game can actually perma stealth…Which is something they weren’t suppose to be able to do. Which is why you got a bloody in combat stealth every few seconds.

If Anet had any idea of how to balance a game in the first place (and they don’t) they would of never gave you in combat stealth on such a short timer, and they certainly wouldn’t of let you have Stealth with ZERO draw backs.

Incurafy.6329:

If Anet absolutely must introduce anti-stealth skills so that the WvW zerg-scrubs (no one in tPvP has trouble with it, stealth isn’t even viable) who cbf learning how to counter a highly counterable mechanic then I agree, this suggestion is infinitely better than a straight up reveal, even if that reveal is on a long CD and lasts a short duration.

You realize Stealth in TPvP is weaker then WvW right?

Revealed last a full second less in World vs World because Thieves were whining they were to weak.

DevonCarver.5370:

Season 1 is going forward as we described, however nothing about future seasons is set in stone. We’ll take a look at the data we get from the first season and will absolutely make adjustments so that future seasons are even better than the first one.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety at that point. I could very well be wrong, but we are going to try season 1 this way and then we’ll take a look at how it played out.

My concern with four leagues is simply that there isn’t enough variety of an kitten kicking at that point.

That is basically what you’ve established.

“I could very well be wrong”

You are..

as usual.

Evilzara.6378:

Flytrap.8075:

Evilzara.6378:

Flytrap.8075:

Noodica.5428:

I’m not one to care about PPT, but i honestly hate versing SBI-.-
Since all these transfers, i rarely ever get even numbered fights when i run 10-15 man groups with my guild.. The only guild who give great fights and actually stand out of the 70 man zergs in BEAST. So yeah, i’ll be in Yaks BL for most of this week just looking for good fights.

It’s funny when other servers act as if they never have zergs.

I don’t think you’ve ever seen an enemy 80 zerg. You guys have them quite a lot!

I didn’t see any huge SBI zergs last night during reset. You’d think that would be primetime for an 80 man zerg, especially since those are supposedly our forte.

You guys always complain about the new SBI transfers, but what you fail to realize is that we do our own separate guild events and tend to avoid huge zergball stuff. For instance, DDLG ran two groups last night, with each consisting of less than 20 members.

Wow, you’re crazy. You’re telling me you were in every map on reset and you saw all of SBI’s numbers? That’s hard to believe.

No need to hide the fact that your server fields 80 people almost ALL the time. Just accept it.

You guys have the skill of a tier 7 server but coverage for a tier 3 server.

Having read your previous posts, I can’t help but laugh.

When you outnumbered SBI in the past, you were obviously winning by skill.

However when SBI does it, we’re just bad and we’re only doing it by numbers.

How you haven’t figured out winning a matchup in World vs World is based entirely around numbers and not skill, i don’t know..But your server isn’t special..There isn’t an amazing amount of skill to be seen by your server. You’re losing because you’re outnumbered. But you’ve won in the past because you’ve outnumbered the other side.

Say take your beating..and cry about something else.

Shemsu.8721:

Xsorus.2507:

Kaon.7192:

Charak.9761:

You see what I mean though, some thieves are QQing, even though only ONE class is getting the counter.

“Everything needs atleast one counter” – Charak

Does any other class mechanic have a counter that outright disables the mechanic like Revealed does to Stealth, and the opponent controls whether/when to activate it?

Right. I didn’t think so.

Yes, Rangers…When you flat out kill their Pet.

But to answer your question, stealth is not your mechanic..When will you Thieves realize this.

Steal is….Stealth is just something you have similar to Rangers with Evade to avoid damage.

It is not an actual Mechanic you have though.

You are correct in that stealth is not a mechanic exclusive to thieves, 4 of the 8 classes have stealth access. However stealth attacks ARE a mechanic exclusive to thieves, and are completely disabled by an enemy controlled on demand revealed. No other class can have their exclusive abilities disabled like this.

Other then the Ranger, who can have his F2 Abilities completely disabled by the killing of his pet.

And for the guy who said damage is not a counter, It most certainly is a counter. Where you get the idea that killing a pet classes Pet isn’t a counter to them because its damage is completely mind boggling. In no MMO game is this not the counter to a Pet Class.

How did you stop a Bone dancer in DAOC? You killed his Pet

How did you Stop a hunter in WoW, You Kill his pet.

How did you stop a Necromancer in Rift, you killed his pet.

Killing the pet is the counter, In Guild Wars 2, This not only removes a large portion of the Rangers Damage, It removes passives like Empathetic Bond and Natural Healing if they spec for them. This is no different from a Thief being Revealed. Just because they’re adding an actual counter to Stealth in the game doesn’t mean you’re some how persecuted.

Kaon.7192:

Charak.9761:

You see what I mean though, some thieves are QQing, even though only ONE class is getting the counter.

“Everything needs atleast one counter” – Charak

Does any other class mechanic have a counter that outright disables the mechanic like Revealed does to Stealth, and the opponent controls whether/when to activate it?

Right. I didn’t think so.

Yes, Rangers…When you flat out kill their Pet.

But to answer your question, stealth is not your mechanic..When will you Thieves realize this.

Steal is….Stealth is just something you have similar to Rangers with Evade to avoid damage.

It is not an actual Mechanic you have though.

With BM Bunker build, i’m actually looking forward to seeing what the changes to MOA are.

That could potentially end up making BM Bunker a lot better in zergs.

I also think the change to Pet HP in World vs World will end up making Protect Me used a lot more as well. Since it won’t mean death to your pet any longer.

BM Rangers maybe will finally be able to run Shouts for example

Signet of the Wild/Protect Me/Sic Em might be common soon, (With Rune of Speed of course)

Red Falcon.8257:

How can people still be this uninformed on classes?

Ele’s mobility was nerfed because Ele can bunker.
Bunker+Mobility = no. Infact Guards/Necros have poor mobility too.

Warriors cannot bunker in the slightest, just like Thieves, so they rely on speed.
If they nerf War’s mobility, then War should be able to bunker.
And believe me you’d hate that a lot more than a runaway Warrior.

Rofl.. you can’t possibly think Warriors are unable to bunker.

I never ran Vigorous renewal most of the time, Always ran soften the fall…Its huge nerf in SPvP though cause you would run it there.

Nikkinella.8254:

There’s an anet dev on SBI! He’s our personal guild bounty now for this whole matchup.

There is an entire guild of them on SBI actually.

I think the Pro’s Cancel out any Cons it gets this patch, so Its about even.

magic fly.2041:

I dislike stealth, but this is the wrong way to go.
I can’t think of any skill that explicitly destroys one of a class’s main mechanics.
Kind of the same issue I had with the gauntlet, and several bosses preventing me from using stealth for the entire match.

If stealth needs to be explicitly disabled from time to time, It’s probably time to take a look at why, not patching it up with a bandaid that will frustrate every thief in existence when they fight rangers.

A. Stealth is not a Thiefs Main Mechanic, Your mechanic is actually Steal….You saying Stealth is your main mechanic is like a Mesmer saying its his main mechanic, You can Stealth, and you’re better then everyone else, But that’s not your mechanic.

B. The Bolded part just cracked me up…Because god knows..We’d all hate to make Thieves feel frustrated when they fight someone grin

I’d laugh if it was 10 seconds of reveal.

I’d personally slot that skill for zerging for sure.

Hence why I’d only use it while zerging.

TB them (daze) then Sic’Em

The only time I used Sic’Em was during the Natures Ninja Videos

I found it to be a god awful ability most of the other time.

I’d probably use it if they add revealed to it, Just for zerging..I’d love to make a Thief have Reveal before he gets ready to stealth..

I still use it for zerging.

I mean…TB is hilarious in zergs when thieves get ready to stealth.

Just pop it with them

There will also be # changes to some of the Ranger weapons.

This is the only line Rangers should be talking about.

Because this is the line that’s going to be the one screwing us most likely in the end.

Gorath.5076:

Xsorus.2507:

Switch Signet of the Hunt for Lightning Reflex before the fight and pray.

Honestly though, their build is so powerful right now you have to vastly outplay them.

so this is just a general problem against tanky classes with all their condition remove?
Warriors right now are overpowered, hands down and I will admit that I am far from being a pro ranger but:
I wasnt at any moment of the fight able to bring him below 70% HP … How can you compensate for that by skill? (I do not have your gear set yet, so I am using a combination of PVT/Knights/Celesterial atm.)

Nope, its only Warriors Right now.

Its a combination of Condition Removal, high health regen, access to multiple forms of stability that come up constantly, and a 4 second stun followed by a move that will kill you if you’re in anything less then full bunker build.

You can win duels right now If you can kill them fast enough, soon as its not a duel and they’re allowed to run away from fights you’ve lost though. They’ll simply run, and once your crap is down like Rampage as one, they’ll come back, stun you once and kill you.

Switch Signet of the Hunt for Lightning Reflex before the fight and pray.

Honestly though, their build is so powerful right now you have to vastly outplay them.

xandermander.4810:

The fact is that a gvg guild is only good for a server where they are on:

1: There are less ppl needed to be in a border to whipe a blob.
2: Because you only need a good guildgroup to whipe a blob there is more space for your that only play wvw about points.
3: The complains about ques are just stupid because a gvg takes max 2 hours and after a gvg the guild will go back to ’’normal’’ wvw raiding to help the server get points and defend stuff when needed.

and Xsorus the video that you linked is from rg you probably know that. You say that you dont see if they are good ’’pvp’’ players but those guys whipe every blob that they see whit only around 20-30 ppl all of them are very skilled. And those ppl that play wvw for the points and run mindless behind a commander are the worst pvp players around because there is realy no skill in spamming 1.

And to all the other ppl that think that gvg is just a game of who can spam there autoattack the best should just make a group of like 50 ppl and fight a 25 man raid group of guilds like [scnd] or [VII] than you can see that you will get killed and that there is more skill in gvg than you think there is.

They could be good for all I know, but watching that video, You will never be able to figure out any actual skill in that video. Its an unwatchable mess because of the way Effects are in this game…I mean here is how bad it is..I can’t even tell you how many people they’re fighting vs how many they have..That’s 10 vs 10 i think? maybe 15vs15..

The 20 vs 20 is even worse

By the way, this is why most people don’t look at GvG as anything amazing

I can’t tell if a single person in that video is any good or not at PvP.

Its one giant gobble of effect mess…Which to be fair, isn’t the players complete fault, a lot of it has to do with the gaudy effect system of GW2.

mistsim.2748:

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I roamed once or twice with AoN by the way, and that was actual Small manning, as in less then 10.

It certainly wasn’t 20 people.

Zephyrus.9680:

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

I want to hear what the current Meta for GvG is, and how it has evolved…If you can describe it i’d love to hear it.

If you’re Asura, simply take BM Bunker Build with these runes, and plop on Technobabble.

Otherwise I don’t recommend BM Bunker with Shortbow and Greatsword

Did you just say 60% of the population in World vs World is involved in GvG

cause I have to tell you, You’re wrong.. ..

29 people is not a consensus

mistsim.2748:

3 camps here:

- spvp’ers/skirmishers who THINK GvG doesnt require skill. it’s for scrubs who like to blend into a “zerg” to increase their chances of winning. GvG is boring to watch.

- GvG puritans / GW1 vets who are living in the past. how dare you call this GvG? only legit GvG is in GW1. they strictly refer to the gametype, not to its variations.

- WvW purists; GvG’ers arent playing the WvW game. they lower server PPT.

all 3 sides couldnt be more wrong. in high tier GvG, every player counts and knows his/her prof inside and out. if one falls, the entire guild can lose the match. and current GvG is a legit DM mode with an organically evolving metagame. GvG has a bigger following than spvp, is more interesting to watch, and has greater build diversity. i also find it much more fun to play. i was likely one of the first rank 35’s back in october, and i completely ditched spvp for WvW in January when i saw it was going nowhere. lastly, GvG guilds decrease PPT for their respective servers during the match, so it’s balanced. further, GvG guilds also bring the most PPT by annihilating pug zergs and taking whatever objectives they please; most GvG guilds spend most of their time in WvW GvZ’ing against pubs. the only difference is they bring the GvG meta to the table and brutally crush all pugs that get in the way.

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

silvermember.8941:

Xsorus.2507:

I’d love more pet control, But Anet seems to think that if you give players to many buttons to push they somehow will be in trouble, even though most suggestions actually just use the same number of buttons that we currently use.

A lot of the problem with Rangers and the “appearing” to spam just 1 button (even though there are plenty of classes that do this) is the fact the damage on most of our abilities is actually less then auto attack or equal.

Take Shortbow, Up until recently it was a bloody DPS loss to use anything other then auto attack in that line, They finally increased the damage of those abilities to be equal to Auto Attack. But still, we’re left with an Evade that we don’t wanna just spam, and a Stun that we don’t wanna just spam.

The original intent of the first skill was to be your main source of damage WHILE the other skills were to be used less frequently but critically. There is no reason to use concussion shot for example, as a damage skill, or quick shot. Theoretically, they were meant to be skills you only used as at critical time.

That is how the game WAS designed, unfortunately given how fast and pace the game has become or deviated, it is better just to use your skills as soon as they leave CD.

Personally, I think Arenanet should return to that original premise instead of the spammy spammy spammy 1-5, we currently have.

The only abilities I don’t spam on release is Concussion Shot as i’m trying to interrupt usually.

Even the evade though you kind of just spam, because you’re going to evade something..

If you want to see a build that people call spamming but actually just follows a Rotation like kitten near every other class in the game is Sword/Dagger and Axe/Torch BM Bunker.

There is no difference between it and an D/D ele…They both follow a rotation.

You very rarely use auto attack with BM Bunker with that setup.

Warriors are the same way with Greatsword, Most of the time its following a rotation and not using Auto attack that often.

Shortbow is the only weapon I know for sure besides maybe P/D thief that doesn’t follow this…

Its just spam spam spam.

As someone who’s soloed a whole lot in this game, Let me just offer a bit of advice…I tried the whole not adding on 1v1’s (this is from my time playing DAOC, we simply didn’t do this as it was disrespectful) the whole not killing sub 80’s (seriously, if I saw an up arrow, and I still kind of do it, I generally won’t kill them unless they attack first), and the whole just zerging down 1 person roaming thing….

Know what it got me?

Generally getting zerged by those people 10 seconds later…People won’t respect any of that… If I recognize the person i’ll usually do those things, But most of the time.. people who I respect will turn around and zerg me in 2 seconds flat then jump on my corpse.

I’d love more pet control, But Anet seems to think that if you give players to many buttons to push they somehow will be in trouble, even though most suggestions actually just use the same number of buttons that we currently use.

A lot of the problem with Rangers and the “appearing” to spam just 1 button (even though there are plenty of classes that do this) is the fact the damage on most of our abilities is actually less then auto attack or equal.

Take Shortbow, Up until recently it was a bloody DPS loss to use anything other then auto attack in that line, They finally increased the damage of those abilities to be equal to Auto Attack. But still, we’re left with an Evade that we don’t wanna just spam, and a Stun that we don’t wanna just spam.

That leaves 2 attacks in that line that could potentially be used for higher damage, the Poison which is only used because its a poison and the Cripple/Bleed attack which is god awful cause it uses the pets condition damage…its really only there for a cripple, So we’re basically forced into spamming the 1 key.

What about Sword? Again, We got a leap back and an evade….that both do pitiful damage while the Auto Attack is the best damage in the game.

Dagger, Another pitiful evade low damage attack and a Bleed (that is actually good)

Longbow, Most of these attacks either do less or the same damage as longbows auto attack, the only exception is Barrage…

torch is good

Axe offhand blows (mainly for the number 5)

Axe Main Hand, again if you’re power based, you’re spamming the 1 key because 2 and 2 are both less damage (3 being used for the weakness and chill) and 2 being only good if you’re using a Condition Build.

The only weapon in the game for Rangers that isn’t high damage attacks and actually requires using other abilities is Greatsword…That is it.

We start getting into silly crap like the our an actual ability lines, and they’re about the same as weapons.

They’re either Passive Bullcrap that we can’t use (Signets because for some reason Anet thinks we should have to invest 30 freakin points in a line to get the same benefit as everyone else with signets) Or its crap that requires specific builds with huge investments in a Trait line..and usually its Condition Based.

While Devon’s answer is silly, How come GvG players don’t take into account the whole Healing/Health Bonus you get from having a greater amount of points then the other side?

GvG players think the World vs World game should revolve around them, So any changes that might affect them shouldn’t go in.

Its almost as kittenPvP having an affect on Balance in World vs World.

Either way, They’d probably get more support if GvG wasn’t an unwatchable mess that random people who didn’t play the game could distinguish between just zerging vs actually playing for skill

Said it before, Until GvG players grow balls and drop down to 10 vs 10 so actual skill can be displayed, They’ll forever be disregarded in balancing of WvW features.

Most of the time by the time you get your wolf into position to fear, Everyone is dead in a Zerg Fight.

That’s not to say you can’t use Wolf, Drakes are mainly there for random AOE hits they do with their Auto attack (since by the time you get them to cast their F2, the fight is also over as well, though the Swamp Drake can do it somewhat since its got 900 range)

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VF;5Fku-g2cDV-0;9k7Z;1JJT;027-19-09A;4K-k0;2bUytbUyt20Fd1-N9;2VPVUWradYs5p_5uVIF31W5;9;9;9;9;9;9V6s5B

Actual Build i run.

I’ve ran multiple builds in World vs World when zerging, and about anything works decently…I mean I ran a Rampager Build for the longest time before they nerfed Sharpening Stones with Barrage.

Thing is, one of the things many people don’t understand about Zerging most fights, Are decided 10 seconds into the engagement, The side that is the first to pull back is usually the side that loses because it causes a cascading effect of people running and your team getting mowed over.

With that said….Your individual damage doesn’t matter…If you hit for 1000 damage or 5000 damage it does not matter, The only thing that matters in a Zerg fight is how many people can you hit…That is it…

Now we have multiple weapons with some form of AOE….Mainly Axe/Greatsword/Longbow ….Axe and LB aren’t bad, Problem with Longbow is it has 1 AOE…..and it only hits 5 people with that AOE….

Axe is a bit more bearable because your auto attack bounces, But again.. Not super amazing.

The Absolute best weapon for zerging however is Greatsword, Because you’re going to be doing 1 thing…Spamming the 1 key and cleaving people. It has the added bonus of having an evade in the actual chain, So you’re taking less damage while doing it.

We also have the added bonus of having 20 seconds of stability at the start of most engagements with Rampage as One. This means we can pop our heal (TU) and Rampage and simply run in hitting the 1 key..This allows us to hit many people as possible.

Secondary Weapon is up to you, I generally run shortbow with my setup because I can stack bleeds on individual targets after the initial fight is over and mop up.

Pets you will want to flat out use Drakes, not only are they beefy, they do the thing you want most, Hit multiple people.

Gear Wise, simply look at my previous Technobabble Build.

The only difference between the two is I switch Moment of Clarity out by dropping 10 points, and picking up 10 in Marksman for Piercing Arrows. I also swap TB for Signet of Stone.

In the end, you have stats like this.

Neomir.7493:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m actually going to agree with Buku, While I personally have nothing against GvG and that they should be able to PvP in World vs World and the game needs separate things like that in World vs World to Thrive…I also don’t think very highly of the fights.

They’re not enjoyable to watch, They rely on the terrible mechanics of this game, 20vs20 is just a freakin horrible cop out by bad players who don’t want to appear bad.

If you’re going to do GvG in this game, 5vs5 or better in my opinion would be 10 vs 10. That way it doesn’t become a mass of suck to watch and you can actually see individual players who are good.

This is an old DAOC video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwnilOhDIuI

That’s a lot more viewable then GvG crap in this game

tried suggesting this in my old guild numerous times but gvg is only ‘cool’ if you do it 15+, whiich is dumb imo for the reasons you pointed out. Its fun and people who enjoy it are entitled to it if they want, but wvw is not a gvg mode. it IS a zerg based mode.

elitism and sensationalism seem to go hand in hand in this game. the bloodlust buff is a great change to encourage action, and could serve as a focus point for ‘proper’ guilds to fight the enemy servers, not the ones that are only interested in gvg or ‘good fights only’. right now its too cool to say ‘i only gvg cos points are for noobs and im not a noob lolol’ and something needs to be done to get these players interested in a game mode they do enjoy and stop trying to make wvw something it’s not; an organized duel with rules and goodmanner/badmanner. that’s spvp.

because for a good few months they had the majority vote and people actually went along with it. been saying this for a long time and im glad a few people are starting to be more vocal about it, as in this game and it’s forums, people are very linear when it comes to trying new things out. discussion often serves as the vehicle needed to shift parts of the games meta i.e. first we had a focus by hardcore wvw’ers (generally speaking ofcourse) on points and emplacements. then came roaming. then dueling, then gvg. for a while the dueling/gvg meta really changed wvw and made it suck as people attitudes got really stinky only able to see the current trend and not think past it, not with this buff and the gvg ‘issue’ coming to the fore, as long as people KEEP being vocal AN will have to break and give us a statement about what the deal is, and why they aren’t providing proper gvg support outside of wvw. your game is called GUILD. WARS, arenanet. wvw is the war yes, but you should at least be vocal about gvg support outside of this.

cant wait for this freaking buff to wvw and for my solo roaming guardian to be fun again seeing how long I can bunker one of these points with my personal cannon. buff up ? > cannon pewpewpew!

I sat and watched a GvG one day to see what it was about, and while its a bit more buff managing wise it all revolved around the same thing, a Bunch of Warriors and Guardians in a clump spamming AOE, It is really zero difference from Zerging except the sides are even, I couldn’t point out a single player that was actually remotely skillful because it was just zerg balling….

10vs10 Would be a lot better to watch, and actually promote something akin to actual skill.

I actually think the ability to turn off the Buff would be a reasonable solution to the GvG whining about unfair fights…

Eurantien would be good for the SPvP SOTG as he does actually SPvP

Esuni.2498:

Izay.8725:

I’m the ignorant one? Show me the proof that 70% of small guilds are GvG guilds. The GvG community is small compared to all the players that participate in WvW, they shouldn’t be denied a fine update simply due to a style of play that was NEVER meant to be played in WvW.

Ill just go by the servers that I know personally

Aurora glade:
EB full of pugs
spread over the borderlands: TUP, vcy, FIRE, NR, NP, DAWN and a couple of 5 man guilds
all of the above said guilds GvG. they bring about 150 players to the field total, AG doesnt have queues.
This said, there are 2-3 small guilds that do not GvG, the big guilds are diminant in WvW and do GvG so here you could say its more than the said number.

Far shiverpeaks:
+- 50 pugs total mostly on EB
pvx guilds focussed on pve who only WvW 1-3 times a week and do nto gvg: GOT/GOTD and AoA, these guilds are not very active but bring a total of 60 players to the field on active days, they mostly command pugs aswell.
These people play mostly for points.
WvW guilds are punk, kale and DW they bring about 80 players, all of them do GvG aswell and are considered the roaming guilds there.

I’m fairly certain gandara, Gunnars hold, piken square and augury rock have it similar to this, some of the blob servers have roaming guilds aswell which also, oops, happen to GvG
Roamers want good and fair fights, this is why they GvG aswell.

Now stop looking at your server alone and think outside of your blob servers

I roam, and I understand that you will never have a good fair fight in world vs world..

Most Roaming Guilds are not GvG guilds because most GvG guilds are 20vs20….

Lordrosicky.5813:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Three most common professions in WvWvW guild group: hammer + sword/warhorn shout warrior, support guardian and staff elementalist. This has been the overpowered WvWvW meta since Autumn 2012. The only thing which has changed has been the rise of necromancers.

Arenanet: Make a proper WvWvW, pve and spvp/tpvp skill split. Stop buffing those things, which do not need any buffs in pve or WvWvW.

Warrior has been king of pve since launch and even more buffs to warrior…

It IS way more work to manage skills which are different across many aspects of the game. It is borderline not viable as Jon Sharp says. It is similar to a database where you repeat data and then you can get clerical errors and inefficiencies when the data has to change.

If they do it your way and split everything then whenever they make a change to ANY skill then they have to test how this changes things in many different ways because the classes will have diverged so much based on skill splits.

They have to separate the game modes, Sorry, but what is overpowered in SPvP is not overpowered in World vs World because the same mechanic of standing on a small kitten point doesn’t exist in World vs World to win a match.

kiwituatara.6053:

I’d like to nominate xsorus for the next SOTG 8D

I have no patience for something like, Soon as someone said something stupid I would go off on them.

Plus its an SPvP SOTG, which I simply don’t do, if they had a WvW one i might consider it but I don’t much for what happens in SPvP, only when it actually affects the other parts of the game.

This is actually a very good Solution for GvG

I’m actually going to agree with Buku, While I personally have nothing against GvG and that they should be able to PvP in World vs World and the game needs separate things like that in World vs World to Thrive…I also don’t think very highly of the fights.

They’re not enjoyable to watch, They rely on the terrible mechanics of this game, 20vs20 is just a freakin horrible cop out by bad players who don’t want to appear bad.

If you’re going to do GvG in this game, 5vs5 or better in my opinion would be 10 vs 10. That way it doesn’t become a mass of suck to watch and you can actually see individual players who are good.

This is an old DAOC video

That’s a lot more viewable then GvG crap in this game