Regardless of what you think about his credentials or tone he makes some strong points. Ranked spvp is supposed to be the highest level of pvp in this game and yet its very common for complete beginners to feel like its ok to roll into it with basically no experience or people to play classes they have no experience with because of class dailies. Even if you feel its ok you have to admit the game does a poor job of teaching the finer points of conquest and just learning by experience is a hard lesson indeed. As for saying get a higher MMR and you will have a better experience I question that as well at least for solo queuers. People should know by now that if you solo queue it doesn’t really matter you will often get matches with inexperienced players just due to population factors and the game rather quickly pushing out the range of skills levels in order to make a match also complete beginners start out with an average MMR I believe even though in reality they are complete newbs.
Regular Guardian bunker has been viable since day 1. It’s only not been viable relatively recently at pretty high levels of pvp because of a couple of currently broken classes namely engineer and elementalist. Surely you don’t think Arena net intends classes to be able to be strong bunkers and do good damage? I know people don’t like to hear stuff like this but those classes that can perform better as bunker then guardian right now will be adjusted. Regardless you build sounds interesting. However I think you pointed out its weak point you are very reliant on landing mighty blow with one of your intelligence sigil attacks.
It’s at least as important to understand the mechanics of conquest then to be a master of a class. The hardest thing for a lot of players new to spvp to learn is that it’s not about the pew pew but controlling points. For that besides playing a lot of matches and seeing what works there are many tournament videos on You Tube. Watch how the top teams split up on various maps to start and how they rotate and how/when they interact with secondary mechanics.
You should be able to report players for playing badly in rated and trust me it should be a low standard but come on. How many times am I supposed to accept someone spawning and going to far point solo and dieing horribly without ever neutralizing the point once and then putting us in uneven fights for the next minute or two. Even after I ask nicely after it happens a couple of times but you better bet by the fifth time straight I am going to say something and it won’t be that pleasant.
How many matches are they going to cost people by going 2 or 3 to chief or Svanir to start leaving there teammates to get run over at keep? Even after outlining the split to start in chat? The fact of the matter is the vast majority of the time people rage its because of bs mistakes people make. I could care less if people lose even fights. But to not know simple rotations and splits to start the various maps you have no right to play rated not knowing those things when there is unrated and arena to learn. You will cause your team mates to be in totally uneven unfun fights all match long. It’s 100% totally unfair to experienced players to not know the basics (or care) and jump into rated play.
So you are going to be forced to play conquest if you want to play Stronghold? How stupid. Why do they care anyway. If Strong Hold was to become more popular then conquest was why would that be bad?
You don’t have to jump down the guy’s throat. There are many people that do not like pet’s or pet based classes and don’t think they believe in serious pvp. You may disagree but to act like it is some kind of fringe opinion is ridiculous.
To be honest I didn’t fully read this wall-of-text, but I’m getting a hint of a general thruline.
Above all, you don’t trash talk your teammates. If you want to take the game seriously, then you have to not act like a child when things go wrong. If a teammate is under-preforming, you put them on the “bench” and work with them in the spare time. Of course, this all requires your guildies to not act like children. Instead of trash talking the players who join the team and kicking them, you work with them.
The moment anyone trash talks their teammate is the moment they get put up on the proverbial chopping block, imo. Above all, team synergy is priority.
This goes both ways though. Part of having a competitive team is discussing what went wrong when you lost so it doesn’t happen again. Some people you can’t say boo too or they get all bent out of shape. I would never trash talk a team-mate. I would say to him though x was a mistake it really hurt us that match why did you do it here is why I think its wrong what you should do next time. You would be surprised how bent out of shape people get over simple stuff like that.
The beasts are secondary mechanics for a reason. You should only kill boss if/ when it will not hurt you in anyway to do so. Capping the points is far more superior.
1:Skip boss at start all together. The person capping home (if no one shows up to contest) should be pushing mid or far depending on the situation. You want to outnumber the fights as much as possible. If you go beast after capping home and they don’t, you now have a 5v4 on mid and your team wipes. It will take you longer than a minute to get the point back (if successful) and loose more than the 25 points you got from beast.
2: If you are wiping the floor you can kill beast. If you find your team is bored for a few minutes because the match is too easy, you can kill beasts.
3: If the match is nearing an end and you need points asap to catch up, you can kill beasts. This would be a last ditch effort to try to gain 25-50 points and then storm a point and take it for a 2 cap.
In general, do not kill at start or anytime during the match really. Including run time to and from beast, you will waste anywhere from 30-60 seconds. Doesn’t sound like much? Well you are leaving your team 4v5 somewhere else on the map and 30 seconds is plenty of time to kill 1 person when you have more players in the fight. By the time you get to the fight 1 is dead, you are still outnumbered and you will continue dying. All situations depend on when and if or if at all, so no one can be really exact.
Your best option is to send 1 far at start instead that is very strong at 1v1. This would be ele or engi. If you can win the fight and take the point or stall the cap for 2 minutes + then you did good. Man on home should then push mid after start cap. You can also send 2 far, 2 mid and your fastest player on home. Home can cap and be at mid almost same time as the other 2. Guys at far can see what their up against and choose the best 1v1 then the other push mid; or kill in 10 seconds then 1 push mid.
Many options and strategies, but none involve the beast
This is a gold star post. A lot of it is commons sense that you should be able to learn through experience but sadly many people never figure any of this out. Like the part about losing out on the middle and losing more points due to ticks then the 25 you gain from killing the bosses. That doesn’t occur to a lot of people it’s kind of scary really.
Don’t play dps in rated pvp as a guard. There are very few good ones. I personally would say no good ones so its really more that med guards is bettered by many other classes glass builds then people aren’t good at playing them. Too hard to stay on target and burst is easy to dodge. The slightly better sustain is fairly meaningless against good players they will still spike you down easily if you make any mistakes just like any other glass.
Any competitive game is going to have people lose there tempers. Anybody that has played sports competitively knows most of the stuff that goes on in pvp in GW2 is nothing. I am not saying that people should harrass others but really someone telling you you are bad I mean come on. Thats totally different then like a five minute tirade filled with expletives. You should expect the former to happen on occassion and not get all bent out of shape imo. It happens to everyone. I would go farther and say that if you are not a really competitive player who’s top priority is winning please don’t queue for rated arena. It’s better for everyone involved.
How do you know your MMR is high. Everybody is a star on this board apparently. What you are describing should happen to everyone there is no reason to believe the luck gods would single you out any more then anybody else. The idea is that over time things even out and you should be in no worse a boat then anybody else that solo’s a lot around your MMR.
Matchmaking, at least in terms of solo vs group, seems ok to me. Not that you don’t sometimes get screwed solo versus premade but imo experience the vast majority of the time if you solo you will face other solos. Or it will be something like 3 solos and one 2 man group versus the same on the other side. A way to kind of check this is to try inviting the people on the other side to group. You won’t have the option to invite if they are in a group. I do it at the start of every match as a sanity check. What bugs me way more are multiple classes or lack of certain classes. Like getting multiple thieves and no bunkers on your team. That ruins far more matches then solo versus groups.
Also pushing far after winning mid is a very bad idea. The enemy team will be on respawn and if they see their home node contested, they will just zerg the point and kill you, which causes you to be outnumbered across the map temporarily. Instead you want to be in a position to see respawns while being able to reinforce both home and mid quickly, there are certain sweet spots on every map for this purpose.
The exception to this is that a thief is fast enough to neutralise the point then escape before the respawners arrive, since they can abuse shortbow 5 for mobility.
I disagree with this. If you’ve swiped them, they’re going to have staggered respawns and are likely going to trickle 1 by 1 into the point. If you send just 3 players to far, you can essentially spawn camp them whilst still having map coverage from the other two players and a 3 cap.
This doesn’t work so well against organised groups, but the pressure is always good.
You can in fact send 4 far and have 1 guard home/mid very easily on all maps (with perhaps the exception of Khylo, it’s probably best not to send 4 far).
I generally find that it’s very hard to ever own more then 2 points for more then a very short period of time. It’s very hard to get past the math of trying to hold 3 points with 5 players. What happens more often then not in the situation outlined above is a couple of them go straight to your probably undefended home point and take it so you still control the same number of points. A worse outcome is they send a couple of people to try to save there home point and while not successful they manage to keep you occupied long enough for a few of them to take middle back. You send four to there home point and some poor bunker gets kitten d by 3 people if you can’t down the two at far fast enough. After all they can see you pushing there home point on the mini map if anybody in there party is near there they don’t have to go there. I’m not saying it can’t work but with all pugs I don’t like that strategy of constant pushing generally.
Obviously I was a solo que, my team was solo que and we ANNIHILATED that team, which was solo que. I don’t see how I was in favor to win, we all solo que. I deserve +3 for FLAWLESS victory, heck I deserve +5, FLAWLESS victories should give +5, should be incentive to ANNIHILATE the other team.
I can try to simplify for you how the current system works, but since english is not my first language, I might face some problems.
1.) Every players has his own match making rating. It is a four digit number, supposed to show accurately how good you are.
F.e. Player A will have a MMR of 3.000.
Player B will have a MMR of about 1.000.
Every match you play will influence your rating. You win -> it growth.
You win against player A -> You get a big rating boost
You win against player B -> Only a small rating boost.
2.) In a perfect world, with enough players participating, you would only play with and against players which have the same rating as you do.
3.) Since we are not in a perfect world, the average rating between the teams may be different. Out of this difference, the system calculates how big your win chance is.
F.e. Against a team full of player-A: 20%; Against a team full of player-B: 80%.
4.) ONLY the score you reach at the end of the match AND the above mentioned win-chance matters.
You reach 200 points against team A (you had a win chance of 20%) => -1 Point for you.
You reach 300 points against team A (you had a win chance of 20%) => 0 points.
You reach 400 points against team A (you had a win chance of 20%) => +1 Point.
You reach 200 points against Team B (you had a win chance of 80%) =>-2 Points for you.
You reach 300 points against Team B (you had a win chance of 80%) => -1 Point.
You reach 400 points against Team B (You had a win chance of 80%) => 0 Points.
You are kind of playing at semantics. The spread is just another way at looking at how you scored. Scoring 200 is basically the same thing as saying I lost by 300. When you get trounced by 400 (which means you scored 100) you are going to be doing poorly point wise in general. When you win by 500 (which means you scored 500) good things are going to happen point wise. A 500-0 win probably should be worth +3 a lot of the time one could argue that its a flaw in the current system that dominance over people of comparative skill isn’t rewarded more. Why shouldn’t I get max points for stomping people of comparative skill?
Foefire might lead to more lopsided matches but pre-mades even bad ones have a huge advantage on any map. I think Foefire is the most bunker friendly map. My advice is don’t vote for it if you don’t like. I like the map and I don’t run in pre-mades that much I do play a bunker though and yes the middle point is very favorable to bunkers.
I have to lol at the idea that WvWvW people like the gear available there for min/maxingonly. They like the gear the way it is in WvWvW because if they grind the top gear it gives them a huge advantage over people that don’t have it. Don’t peddle that nonsense here we aren’t stupid. You can always min/max regardless of equipment with trait lines and runes in spvp. Don’t be afraid of even competition. If you like pvp for the sake of pvp it doesn’t matter. If you want your battles decided by equipment and numbers WvWvW is that way —-—————>.
As far as I am concerned in a true pug environment its never good to rush far point to start with any number. I believe in keep it simple stupid when playing with complete strangers. 4/1 split to start when its pugs wins the vast majority of the time. People can try to defend it all they want. It’s awful strategy and if you do it you are a newb to me and I’ll let you know even if it works. I’ll say what I say to all conquest geniuses watch some videos of how top teams open the vast majority of the time. But you know better somehow.
This is a pretty slick idea. Might be worth trying to fight class dailies because the game does try to limit duplicate classes. So the game would put 2 thieves onto your side with you being one off them and then you could switch to something else and it would be onl y one thief making a better mix on your team.
I personally think you should always get dinged at least 1 point for a loss regardless of win probability. Otherwise I don’t know how the top of the leaderboard won’t always be mostly determined by who plays the most matches. Either that or we have to limit the games played per week that count toward LB.
The system should probably try to give you as many 50/50 type games as possible. Long losing streaks are very possible with this system that have almost nothing to do with your skill level if you solo. During the test season I got mired about a 35% win percentage for quite a long time. I persevered and got relatively close to 50% overall by the end but a lot of players won’t keep playing like I did if after 50-75 games they are winning not much more then 1/3 of them.
You should probably flip the priority. It’s very hard to take a point solo unless you can look at the mini map and know there is no one guarding a point or likely close enough to stop you from an easy cap. +1 to fights is the main priority. Sure if you know a point is unguarded you pop there and take it. Also, a good thing to do is watch videos I know I am a person that learns a lot more by watching what good players do rather then reading about how they do it.
The might nerf is pretty small. Its 125 less power maxed out at 25 stacks. So 500 power instead of 625. Are people really maxing out on might mainly because of battle sigils? And if they are is reducing the amount from 3 to 2 going to stop it? Isn’t the duration they last for more of the problem? No nerfs to Engineers makes me ha. Yay for Guardian Shield changes however.
A lot of the bad players already have 1,000’s of games of experience though. Some people don’t care to understand the conquest mode and never will. That guy that goes far point solo and dies over and over again that’s not necessarily a newb in experience just mentality. A lot of people understand one thing when it comes to pvp: pew pew.
We will be putting the ranked arena into off-season ladder configuration on Saturday at 1am PST. All ladder aggregates (points, wins, losses) will be reset, and the leaderboard cleared, shortly before the ladder begins. This will not reset your account aggregates.
There are no rule or scoring changes, but we may make changes at some point.
Also, effective immediately, the disconnect grace period has been increased from 30 seconds to one minute.
Surely you will be making changes to the rules and scoring at some point if you don’t want this to continue to be a bad joke. You can’t have people having to play 800 ranked matches in a month just to be able to have a decent chance of getting in the top 20-50 of the leaderboard. I don’t consider myself more then an average player that tries to play the right way but I got high enough on the leaderboard to consistently get a lot of matches with some of the clown shoes that grinded there way to the top 100 by playing an over-whelming amount of games and they were some of the worst players I have ever been forced to play with quite a few of them.
The vast amount of players playing N/A don’t want to put in the work or take it as seriously as the Abjured does. So they aren’t going to have any real competition any time soon. People probably don’t fee it’s worth it. Thats not a knock on either party. It’s a knock on A-net. Even if there were a few more really good teams there still wouldn’t be much competition. So you would get 95-4 instead of 99-0. The answer would be significantly increasing the player base so you could have a tight league season where you were always playing people of similar skill and group type. I just don’t see that happening.
I have to say that while its far from perfect the large majority of the times when I queue solo I am facing all solo players or maybe a partial group of 2 on the other side. An easy way to check this is to try to invite to group the people on the other side. I’ve played with against people like Ostrich Eggs and Zoose too when they solo but they are also sometimes on your side as well.
99-0 is certainly impressive but we already know he plays with the best players and there aren’t really any comparable teams. It’s not even like the San Antonio Spurs versus the worst team in the NBA it’s the Spurs versus a college team. I am not blaming them for the lack of competition but this needs to be put into proper perspective. If the Spurs played to win they could beat the Kentucky Wildcats 100 times in a row. They know they are the best and the leaderboard rewards were a joke anyway.
You should have to be on the node for x consecutive seconds in combat(no clue what just a short time period) and it be neutral or your color to receive any new ticking points type reward for defense or assault if they were to add it. You are doing the heaving lifting when you are on the node taking heavy damage. Most aoe is large enough to just cover the whole node or most of it and this game is nothing if not an aoe fest. Even being off the node a little bit you are not facing the danger of your teammate that is squarely on the node. That needs to be rewarded properly if we keep the scoring system but to be honest I wish they would just scrap it.
Disconnect is automatic -3 pointz unless you get back in immediately and i mean immediately like good luck if you have to cold reboot and log back in if the game crashed. If you swap classes at any time once the match loads in also an automatic -3 pointz. If you drop any queue also a -3 pointz. So I don’t know what happened with you exactly but its quite easy to bleed points if you don’t how the new system works. Edit: Just read that desertions are now rolled into the loss column.
Lol holidays are for college kids, most adults worked. People who need breaks from work don’t really love what they do. “When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breath then you will be succesful”.
My employer is very generous when it comes to paid holiday leave. I’ll also remind you that it’s a Sunday and I’m here looking at data and answering questions.
Lol, funny how that guy throws a quote in a lot of motivational videos at you, and you just slap him with that nice reply ’I’m working on sunday, my day off kitten, and you think I don’t care?’ haha.
Now instead of learning from blizzard, you should be 1 step above blizzard and implement that star rating system I mentioned earlier. Where people rate other players to help you with your matchmaking for better matches
Funny how you interept text you white knight of justice and suggest the star idea from kindergarten. This idea won’t work you take it out of players hands so they can’t manipulate it, try again. Oh and working Sunday is normal if you have every Sunday off your job is casual.
Kids now a days assume they get days off and that not working and having time to do nothing is a right. You earn it pleb.
Many people with full time jobs that pay very well have every Sunday off. Don’t be jealous because thats how you sound. Nobody is impressed when you brag you don’t get Sunday’s Off.
Try googling Kensuada Celestial Bunker it’s on the forums somewhere here. Consensus was works pretty good for solo queuing but not good enough for higher level group play where you will notice the loss of survivability.
It’s easy to see why matches are lost but harder to explain. If skill levels are anywhere near close to even its usually because a couple of people on one side have no clue or care about how A-nets marvelous (sarcasem) conquest system works. That means bad rotations, over-pushing, and lots of off-point fighting. Pew Pew.
Try to look at it from the eyes of a beginner guys.
The NPCs award points, and give you a buff. Who wouldn’t want that?
It takes a higher level of understanding of the both the map and conquest mechanics to get that securing mid is important.
How would you guys suggest we go about teaching this to players?
This is not just beginners. This happens all the time with players with thousands of matches played. This happens all the time with players ranked highly on your fraudulent grind it up leaderboards. I don’t know how you can teach or get people to do want to do it the right way but its sad either way. You can win well over 50% of matches right now just by starting out 4/1 (4 middle and 1 home) split on just about every map and yet it rarely happens. I know because I play mid point bunker 100% of the time. Half the so called experienced players don’t care to understand conquest. You try to be helpful at the start and you are met with crickets or abused. Then when things continue to get worse and you are the one that gets angry you become the bad guy for asking for some discipline. All I know is you do an awful job getting players to understand or care about conquest. Your average noob wants to pew pew and that doesn’t change for most of them 10 games in or 100000 games in.
You should always lose at least a point for losing. Sounds harsh but might fix things in conjunction with tightening up the matchmaking some to make very unfair matches (solos verus groups) extremely rare. Would make it much harder to grind your way to the very top with an average win rate just by playing a ridiculous amount of games.
If your broken matchmaking system gives us a team with 5 rangers and 4 of us swap to a preferable comp and win, we get no reward because we didn’t play it the way your matchmaking wanted us to play it?
I swear to god, it seems like Anet wants this game to fail. You’re doing a great job, boiz, keep it up!
There are two sides to every story. The reason they don’t want you swapping is because they don’t want people to see what the other team is running and then switch to a comp that totally neutalises it. Yes what you are saying is somtimes a problem but I agree with there line of thinking.
I’m not sure what they can do for the leaderboard rankings because in theory the way it works is actually pretty sound now. People keep railing about Pugs versus premades but people seem to forget that you won’t lose points generally losing to people with higher MMRs and often can gain points against them by making the match quasi competitive. People need to stop obsessing over w/l percentages because they are not suppossed to be the end all and be all in this system. As for different leagues I just don’t see the population where you can say we will only have the top 500 for example play each other or the top 200 etc. The queues at certain times of day would be extraordinary. T
he main problem to me is fixing it so you don’t need to play 20 matches plus a day to get ranked in the top 100 or so. Quantity is being rewarded a little too much. Maybe some kind of diminishing returns for points earned in a given time period and maybe being able to lose or win points in .5 increments instead of just whole numbers meaning a win could potentially sometimes be worth as little as half a point. I am leery about some kind of hard cap or minimum or maximum games played because people should be able to play quite a bit and have it help there rating if they do well.
Most people won’t watch these sadly. When I am in a match with mostly noobs Ill suggest they spend a little time on youtube watching vids and it will be crickets or a violent reaction in chat. Don’t get me wrong these are excellent vids that the determined player will watch and try to learn from them.
You have never seen a bunker guardian using Mace in spvp? That is almost unbelievable ot the point where i have to think you may be trolling. If you are being serious I would have to say you aren’t paying attention or do not spvp. To continue to argue against the weapon especially in pvp is pretty ignorant enough to make me
Very good tips but my experience is you won’t get people to rotate correctly ever unless they want to take the time to learn themselves and many don’t want to. You can ping the map, kindly tell people at the start what kind of split you want at start, and many will just refuse to listen. I really think a big problem is the individual point scoring system still. It encourages people to fight off point to get kill and skirmish points on running enemies and to always try to take a point you don’t control whether it makes sense or not. It encourages going for Chieftain and Svanir at inopportune times. It encourages trying to kill the Lord in FoeFire 2 minutes into the match. You end up with matches were you get squashed by 500-300 and you have people on the 300 point team with higher individual scores then people on the winning team because all they did all match was trade point control while they winners actually protected what they owned. They also look at there score and think they did awesome at the end of the match. The saddest thing is that stupid score doesn’t benefit you in any real way. It’s not even like you get some kind of modest reward.
They obviously need to adjust things a bit to avoid rewarding for quantity too much but you should be rewarded for playing more. I don’t know how you can consider yourself a serious player and not avearage around at least 5 matches a day. I am not saying every day but on average like in a week you should play 35 ranked games at least. This season has gone on for a few weeks now and you have people crying that they arent ranked that high on the leaderboard and they have lik 60-80 games played in three weeks. Simple math tells me that is 2-3 game per day. To those people I say stop being afraid to run without a full group. Stop feeling afraid to ever lose or take chances. The most active players should be rewarded. 20 games a day average is ludicrous though I agree but play the kitten game if you want to get high on the leaderboard.
Yes, because your average player has all the time in the world to sit around waiting for a match. I don’t want to come across too rudely but a lot of us are adults with lives and limited time to play. We are the majority. You the are the minority the person that has time to plays this game for hours every day and has the time to sit around waiting for 15-20 minutes plus to get one game. Thank god A-net doesn’t actually listen to people like you.
brannigan,
Are you serious?
You really advocate blowout matches rather than waiting for a challenging matchup?
Yes, I am dead serious. Is there something hard to understand in what I posted? I am ok waiting a few minutes for the best match up. No more then that. I have an hour or two to play most nights and I am not going to spend half my time waiting for more competitive matches that may or may not exist. You seem to me to be advocating like 15-20 minute waits or possible waiting as long as it takes. Most people do not have that sort of time to waste waiting like that. There is only so much that can be done this game really does not have a large population. It’s the same raft of complaints every time they tweak match making or add something. This is the team version of all the crying about solo queue matchmaking when it was first implemented and when leaderboards were first implemented. To put it in the nutshell there is no perfect solution and I will always want to err in favor of you know actually playing the game not waiting forever.
Nobody plays the patriots every game though. There aren’t that many dedicated teams playing GW2 for one thing. And they also aren’t all on at any given time. There has always been tons of bad matches and there always will be because this game has a small population base and they can only tweak the matchmaking so much.
Yes, because your average player has all the time in the world to sit around waiting for a match. I don’t want to come across too rudely but a lot of us are adults with lives and limited time to play. We are the majority. You the are the minority the person that has time to plays this game for hours every day and has the time to sit around waiting for 15-20 minutes plus to get one game. Thank god A-net doesn’t actually listen to people like you.
The whole idea of a carry class is over-rated and really an excuse making tool for poor/delusional players ie if I just would play X class I would be doing a lot better on average.
