These money tournaments are the equivalent of bread and circuses from ancient Rome. Sure we don’t have any kind of meaningful way to rate ourselves in the actual game or leaderboards or anything like that but every once in awhile we throw 50k around to fogify the E-Sportz people.
Are engi, necro, and ranger bad in the current meta or something? I want to play a range class, so with ele and mesmer out of the windows, those are what I was looking at.
Engineer requires some serious finger acrobatics. Engineers have some of the most versatile traits, utilities, and combinations I’ve ever seen. However, you can get a lot of the same power with less effort on other classes.
Necromancer suffers from a number of issues with a number of builds (well cooldowns, minion AI being poop, wonky signets, lack of stability, ect). Necromancer can be good, but every single build they have is lacking just a little something.
Ranger suffers from pet AI and the same deal as necro. All of their builds lack in different areas.
In regards to OP, the most common are D/D eles, Mesmers, followed by burning guardians and thiefs.
Burning Guardians are not close to the third most popular class/build. At least in rated pvp most of the guardians I have seen have gone back to bunker and there are still more medi guardians then burning guardians. All guardians can inflict a fair amount of burning dont just look at some burning in the damage log and say Burning Guardian. I rarely see a torch off hand guardian in rated pvp. Unless you see that not a burning guardian.
Because burning is not op by itself and only really effective against bads. The reason its so powerful on elementalist is its good supplemental damage in addition to a ton of other good stuff an ele gets. A ele has way more goodies then a full burn spec guardian would get. It is really fun against bads though. The majority of Guardians I see in spvp are bunkers, a few medi, and very rarely full burning guards.
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Some classes/builds you are probably not going to be able to beat if they are being played by someone roughly as skilled as you are. Game wouldn’t make sense otherwise or be balanced.
Stealth, really mainly Aoe Stealth, is a problem as long as groups build around isnta gibbing from it. Really thats the lamest mechanic in the history of pvp in MMORPGs and I’ve played close to all of them. If I could sit down with A-net pvp guys thats the first thing I would bring up was why they thinks thats a fun idea a group being invisbile for five seconds and then insta dropping any target they want. Sounds lame as hell to me but then I’m not some 20 something dev that barely plays there own game so they like stuff that sounds cool in theory but is totally unfun to be on receiving end of it in actual practice.
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Sounds like a lot of you are big fans of a bunker meta. I am not. I like the idea that there are high burst classes who also die easily, as well as bunkers who can sustain. It is a good balance right now with the exception of dd ele and certain mesmer specs.
If you think a 25% reduction in two sigils is going to usher in some kind of era of bunker dominance all I am going to say is do the math. I can’t even imagine what the damage reduction on average would be. I have to imagine it’s a couple percentage points at most. Not to dismiss because it because it is in fact siginicant extra free damage from those sigils and a lot of it will still be there. But in general auto attacks and there critting is the vast majority of everyone’s damage along with stuff like burning. In this current meta everyone dies easily except for a couple of broken builds. To say we need to keep fire and air sigils broken because of broken builds I will never agree to that line of thinking. Fixing something is always a poistive.
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D/D ele even stronger now, I like that. /s
Someone wiz in your cheerios this morning? So anything that does damage that is available to everyone potentially that gets nerfed is an indirect buff to D/D eles? This is why these forums are useless.
The only time I look at personal score is when we lost badly so I can see the morons with high point scores on my team that traded points all match/circle rotated and basically screwed everyone over. FYI if you have higher individual points scored then most of the winning team and you got clobbered you are most likely doing something very wrong.
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If you look at class strength over-all in spvp since the day this game launched the engineer is probably 2nd behind elementalist in over-all strength over time. God help they be average for a couple weeks.
This game makes tons of money they definitely have more employees than at launch. They just don’t use those resources on pvp.
Wow so much scorn for forum people actually coming from forum people themselves isn’t that funny.
They are projecting there badness onto other people don’t mind them.
Being on a top team doesn’t mean you necessarily have very intelligent opinions on the game either. All you have to do is look at something like Professional Sports analysts. Some of the dumbest commentators are the ex-players. Having good twitch skills and the ability to work as part of a team do not necessarily equal the ability to give good written or verbal analysis.
Not to be too lame but Medi is Deadi. At least from what is optimal point of view. The best performing build for Guardians in spvp is again the boring old support bunker.
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They wont. Its the most played class. More players quit= less gemstore profit for them.
There were more before the major update. Medi guards out the wazoo. Not saying it’s not a fairly popular class but in spvp the most played class? No way. Elemetalist and Mesmers are the most popular classes. I dont see any more guardians then Warriors or Engineers or even Necros.
There crap they need to be invulnerable or close to it like they were at the beginning.
Woah Cleric amulet? This is like a 12k hit build. Down fast indeed if you make a mistake.
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Whats the build? Is it one of the old bunker builds or something slightly different? Weapons? Sick of playing burning guardian.
10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.
Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).
Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.
Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.
That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.
I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.
Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.
Symbols are hard to use? I’ve been PvPing on my guardian for a couple years now, unless they magically changed how damage patches with effects work they’re not all that difficult. You’re hyperbolizing.
Symbols deal damage, provide boons, and you can’t simply look at them in a vacuum and cherry pick to compare against other abilities. It’s a cohesive picture for guardians that can apply a huge amount of AoE pressure and burst potential in an area compared to many other classes especially. Symbols are a tool, and they have minor traits with ONE major trait that’s a flat 10% DPS boost in a trait line that already grants access to other steroid bursting without requiring management of our F1 utilities around it as well. Symbols are fine, in PvE they’re incredibly powerful additional DPS tools and in PvP they can be used for area denial and additional damage while forcing your opponent to fight in them.
Nobody cares about your experience in hotjoin and unrated play. There have literally been 2 or 3 viable guardian builds in spvp against anybody good since the game’s inception. If the people you are figthing stink or you are just better then them yeah you can make some weak builds work. But I look at what works against people as good as me or better as viable and symbol based builds are not in that category sorry.
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Its not broken at all. (sarcasm Just in case) right?
Burn heretic, burn.
Unocleanse?(no I don’t think burning values are fine, but they already said they know that burning value is way too high)
That’s a little hyperbolic don’t you think? What they said was conditions are doing too much damage. Nowhere have I ever seen way too high. If they revert the burning back to the way it was then there is no reason to run any kind of condition build for a guardian again. Whatever they decide on it still has to be more then marginally better then it was pre-patch. Obviously it’s needs a nerf but damage like pre-patch? I think not.
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You have to understand that Arken is a pretty high level spvp player and if something doesn’t work at that level he is not going to be all that positive about it. At lower levels of play and WvWvW all that stuff you said yes is true.
It is borderline op. A-net conveniently forgets what they found op at one point (high uptime quickness) and then re-introduces it again. Not that I am complaining.
You are complaining. I could smell someone got bitter because he couldn’t even see the initial animation to kite away and got spinned to death by a guaridan.
Nice try dude but I probably have 10-15k matches on Guardians across multiple accounts. That has been my main class 90% of the time since I first stepped into pvp two and a half years ago. A-net has nerfed quickness abilities before in the past just pointing that out I believe Rangers at one point got a pretty hard quickness nerf. With Judges Intervention a skillfull guardian will have no problem landing attacks with quickness never mind if you stack a couple of them we could be talking 10-15 seconds of quickness good luck avoiding all of that. Again though nice try. Unlike most people on these boards if you were to friend me you would see me in game on a Guardian when I appear online.
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When you realise you still lose most of the time most of you will start complaining again. Too early to tell but seems to me everyone is running Berzerker amulet now which tells me less diversity.
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It is borderline op. A-net conveniently forgets what they found op at one point (high uptime quickness) and then re-introduces it again. Not that I am complaining.
You want it to be strong you have to wear clerics.
Yeah it is pretty much worthless. It is useless in pvp also as you don’t want to be casting 4 second anything as powerful as a group heal sounds. The offensive signet is way better 5 seconds of quickness on a 30 second cooldown is very strong not to mention the fury.
Longbow was needed.
Sadly traps not.
We are in a good place – that means we must get 1 good thing and 1 bad thing – that is called balance (for guardians only).
No guardians are not in a good place where pvp is concerned at least unless you want to be shoe horned into hammer meditation. We’ll see is specializations change that and give more then one meta build.
You’ve already lost if you get angry enough to post the 1,000000000,000000 thread on this topic. Block and report although don’t report unless its continuous and abusive or A-net won’t do anything. I highly doubt A-net will suspend anyone for typing once you suck go kill yourself.
Some of those classes/builds you listed are much harder to play then shoutbow. Shoutbow really is the worst combination of easy to play and effective right now.
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1……..627……….Tibs.2783……..Tibs Ironblood……..W762……..L357……..68.10%
2……..564……….darres.8203………..Xdarresx…………..W720……..L583……..55.26%
Idk about yall but that looks kitten impressive compared to the past leaderboards. There’s no way I could play that many games with a near 60 or 70% win rate.
I’ll call this progress.What I wholeheartedly believe is that every player should receive a monthly cap and when reached, that player’s “Season” would be completed. Must like a Golf player finishing a game early. He has his score card ready but he still has to wait for everyone else to finish. This way, everyone is on the same page.
Please tell me that you’ll try that out as a last resort?
I’m glad ya’ll are continually trying to improve the system but I feel the “grindiness” is inevitable; players who play 9 games a day will always be ahead compared to casual 3 games-per-day players
Just showing the top 2 is pretty deceptive. And you don’t know that there weren’t players that couldn’t have won at least as much over that many games but didn’t have the time to grind like this. Its stupid to have to play anywhere near that many games to have a chance to be ranked high. The progress was moderate at best.
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I agree its no skill pretty much. Probably disagree how unbalanced it is but I feel like its a type of build that is rewarded too much low skill low risk build should be the weakest type of build.
Yawn same crap. 5 in the finals out of 10 players used celestial? Can’t wait for HoT.
Another every thing is fine and dandy genius. When people pay $$$$$ to a company they every right in the world to complain if they don’t like what they got for there money. Get in the real world and spare us the lectures.
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It’s mostly because of celestial comps. But my personal opinion is people have out thought themselves and you can do just fine with a bunker guardian. The last money tournament winner ran a necro and I don’t care what anyone says that is a mostly lacking class in spvp at the moment. But people get these ideas in there head and you can’t change them. I suspect they will be more popular again with HoT and some of the nerfs to elementalists and celestial amulet.
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People are scared of playing rank? That’s news to me. It seems to me that complete beginners queue for rated all the time. Ranked may be a salt mine but unranked is a bunch of uber noobs in my experience that make the bads infesting rank look like pros. See how you play that game? It’s called generalizing. That being said if you are not competitive and can’t deal with criticism (although ignore is your friend and I’ve never noticed scintillating conversations in unranked either) don’t queue for ranked you will be doing everyone, including yourself, a favor.
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Matchmaking attempts to put together players of similar strength. Blocking people because of their level is thus an abuse, a long-term match manipulation, and doing so would mechanically have you isolated (an obvious consequence):
- One’s assessment of a player’s strength is biased, and possibly strongly biased when one is actually weaker than one thinks (a common occurrence).
- A player’s strength varies over time. Weak players become stronger. Blocking “noobs” or “stars” would simply remove future potential opponents.
Blocking people for their behaviors, and not their game level, is another story. According to many in the forums, the community is not that toxic, so one would not block too many players, and still have people to play with. And of course, if the community is more toxic than people want to acknowledge, then one would be better off not playing at all and let the whole thing die.
“Growing thicker skin”, i.e. tolerating hate, is not a sign of courage or wisdom. It’s actually the opposite.
Your definition of what constitutes hate and harassment may be different then my definition at least some of the time or A-net’s. A common mistake of people is to think what they think is the gold standard or 100% definition of something. For me, and I am only saying for me, for me to consider something “hateful” it has to be fairly serious. To me anything but constant hectoring and profanity laced tirades is ok with me (by ok I mean not a banning offense). I have no clue what A-nets definiton is but I suspect they err on the side of caution and being lenient. Block is there to used. If someone is profane and badgering report them because they will in fact eventually be banned if it is bad enough A-net does sometimes do it. However, if stuff like someone calling other people noobs occasionally in team or map chat or making one off comments that aren’t repetitive badgering and do not contain expletives bothers you that much then yes you need to get thicker skin. That will happen in any competitve setting on occasion and A-net knows it.
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Also, many run pack runes you will have fury a good chunk of the time from that.
Yes, rated solo queue would be a lot better if the only people that queued for it took the time to try to understand conquest and how the classes work before jumping in. They would spend a little time on the internet reading up on things and then spend siginificant time in unrated before jumping into rated. Unfortunately it will never happen. Most people think they know everything and are special snowflakes and for some crazy reason the majority of people will look at unrated and rated options even if they are completely new and select rated. I only consider myself average as well but when I started way back when I did not queue for tournaments for quite awhile when I started pvping. I spent time researching things and doing only hotjoin and custom arena. Since a lot of people won’t act rationally it’s up to a-net to come up with better systems.
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Long story short. Yes, its too much to ask for sadly. They have a couple of devs that work on pvp full time. Things take forever.
Im sorry, but do you even play the game?
At the right corner just above your map there is all the info you need..
Have some map awareness to see if someone is down. Look just above it to see who’s on respawn..And adding respawn timers to see when respawn happens is just stupid. Why not add skill recharges of other Players…
I agree the tools are pretty much there already. Could they make it easier I guess they could but its far from necessary.
I agree and I disagree. The main reason imo that more people don’t get serious about forming teams in this game is that it is not really rewarded enough. Building a team requires a lot of work. You have to find people who you click with personally. That takes a fair amount of trial and error. What is the pay-off exactly? A couple of tournaments a year with cash payments that will go basically to the lebron james teams of the world. It’s not even good enough to be in the top 10% of teams world wide. You have to be the best. I do agree that over 30 gamer does not see VOIP communication as second nature as the younger game however I just think this game doesn’t really reward grouping and doing well outside of winning more. When this game actually rewards doing well at spvp for more then the top handful of players in the world then you’ll get more teams. This game at the minimum should have regular automated tournamets at different skill levels (aka as leagues) that have gem rewards for the top teams. We don’t even have simple things like that.
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Why you would have ever been under that impression. It would never work. Too exploitable for one thing. Don’t spvp then or grow a pair.
Several months of nothing and then another awful test season with minor tweaks that don’t improve things much. Might sound too pessimistic but we do have a track record to go on.
I’m all for bringing solo queue back but some people really at looking back at the old solo queue with too much nostalgia. What solo queue would do for most current solo people is increase there competitiveness of the average match. What it will not do for most is increase there winning percentage. Once they got rid of synch queueing most people in the old solo queue were in the 45-55% winning percentage area which is where most people that solo queue the current rated are. Solo queue returning is not some magical panacea for the solo player. Most would find something else to cry about.
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So, by not playing what’s commonly accepted as “meta”, you’re generally dragging your team down. Now, you might experiment something with potential, or just play a far more fun spec, everyone does it. But no amount of “skill” will outweight that same amount put into playing something optimal, nor will a “surprise factor” that you might gain throughout the first 30 seconds of a match. Meta has nothing to do with playing safe, it has all to do with efficiency.
The problem is that the game shifts due to the tournaments. Hambow warrior was not true meta until it won in the CC vs SYNC match. Then it was EVERYWHERE.
If people only ran the meta, the meta would never change. Rom and Tarcis ran shoutbow when it wasn’t meta, now everyone uses it.
this.
As I’ve said in first page, the metagame is the most optimal way to win. Playing something that counters a very wide spread strategy is in no way shape or form a random fun build. Hambow was beating down necros and spirit rangers at the time, hence became very widely used, for a very long time.
You’re all approaching this wrong, thinking meta is some kind of group acceptance or validation or w/e. The meta is NOT the most played build. A build being played the most is a consequence of it being generally called metagame, because it is simply what works best in the current situation. The counter to hambow was celestial heavy comps, and is still right now the metagame because it’s still best to run it, despite having generally added another berzerker, making killing celes fairly easy. The moment a single team figures out the counter and starts playing it, that will be the “meta”.
And for the record, Tarcis started playing hambow first on NA, and xjnni made it popular on EU way before CC won PAX.
What will most likely change the meta is A-net making balance changes and people reacting to it not just somebody getting an a-ha moment. Hambow got created not because of some a-ha moment but because a-net boosted the warrior and then someone saw how it came together into a strong build. Same thing with the celestial builds. The amulet got boosted first. Only then came the celestial builds. What happens is a-net makes some kind of change and then the player-base exploits it.
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Let’s not exaggerate. I don’t think you have to run 100% meta or you are crippling your team but knowledgeable people pretty much know what works and what doesn’t at this point and if you are not running a build incorporating a fair amount of what consensus says works then you really are hurting your team. We all have our secret sauces and tweaks to certain builds. If you think you are inventing the wheel two and a half years plus in though you are probably mistaken.
I think they should remove solo from ranked. Solo players should first get a team in spvp LFG before joining ranked. Unranked could still accept solo registers. This would force more commitment from all players from start and allow them more time to plan a strategy by playing together a number of matches. Today I have a feeling that players are training in rank, and the fact they don’t see how they are penalized encourages that. In SSFIV it hurts when you see your points taken away when loosing to a lower ranked opponent.
Thats terrible if people were forced to join a full team or not be able to play rated most people that currently play rated solo or in less then a full group would just stop playing. You can’t “force” people to do anything.
Nothing wrong with Fire & Air
No there is nothing wrong with high RNG damage. It’s totally chock full of skill and counterplay.
The same reason we don’t have 1,000,000 other things. They don’t have the resources.
I thought dishonor was disabled. Why do you think we have all these dopes leaving matches. They aren’t getting punished outside of a loss.