Guild Wars 2

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

perma vigor on kit got nerfed
SD got incendiary powder nerfed
HgH nade high dmg but low def
what can we run next time if they nerf engy???

The kit refinement as a whole got nerfed and hurt in many different ways. We lost damage with nades for example. Lost Box of Nails when swapping to the tool kit, harming a handy free set of bleeds and a cripple for CC or getaways. We lost one condition removal from swapping to FT and one from just swapping to EG. Not to mention some of the things you listed.

All this talk just keeps making me thing of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

For roaming, a GCSD build is very good for smashing the odd one or two solo guys running to meet their buds. It is great for soloing supply camps and dolyaks. When it can be so effective at those task that it is designed to do, I don’t see a problem with it.

But we are getting off topic here. I know a great many engineers who often do not care to use grenades and they thrive, as I do. The simple fact that you are required to put a 30 point investment in them to achieve the level of strength that makes the OP inaccurately claim they need a nerf, supports the fact that do not need change. Logically if a player makes that kind of trait investment into a kit, then the kit should certainly feel stronger then the others to them. Both, because of the traits supporting the kit, as well as the traits not applied to the other aspects of a build.

rogerwilko.6895:

I was usin 2x giver pistols long ago when I was thinking condi works in WvW. As I now play in T1, that is no longer the case. Good players have cleanses and reduce duration.

Oh and zergz have many of them “guardians”… so gl with that

I have been on a tier 1 server forever, and I can tell you that it certainly does work, and it works well.

If your going into a battle and getting heart broken over someone cleansing your conditions, then I hate to see how it effects you as a non condition build when I can dodge and negate all of your damage so often, or my 3 second gear shield block every 16 seconds.

Condition duration is a great form of damage, and server tier is mostly irrelevant to that. If your suggesting they cleanse better and that this devalues condition duration, then I am suggesting that is a limited half truth. Because if your suggesting that they display more skill or awareness to cleanse properly, I would hope you would be aware that they would dodge and block direct damage properly too.

You are actually incorrect in your assessments. The so called “meta” of condition damage is only in sPvP. In PvE it is very much the opposite. In PvE, players steer very clear of conditions often, because of the hard cap in condition stacking. And in my experience in WvW (which is a lot), it is about 40ish% conditions in and 60ish% power.

As much as I can appreciate what your trying to say, I just personally feel your fundamental facts are wrong, which negates the majority of what your saying. Now if you made it clear you were speaking purely in the context of sPvP, you may have an argument, although I would disagree with some of your points.

Forestnator.6298:

coglin.1867:

Phathomz.5970:

Yeah, but what does it stand for? I’ve never seen a tooltip not explain the initials.

A utomated. E lixir. D espenser.

Trollol. AED stands for automated external defibrillator.

Yeah, you would think since I update the wiki monthly I would know that, right?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/AED

Phathomz.5970:

Yeah, but what does it stand for? I’ve never seen a tooltip not explain the initials.

A utomated. E lixir. D espenser.

milo.6942:

tolunart.2095:

Anet doesn’t interfere in the gem/gold trade feature.

proof?

To me, common sense is the proof. The price of gems via gold follows the exact path of price of gems cost for real money. Both of which fluctuate based on the value of items in the gem store generally. Similarly to the manner that prices adjusted strongly when ascended gear came out and players were using real money to buy gems to acquire more gold for the materials, consequently the price of gems for gold dropped in turn. The more people buy gems with real money, the cheaper the prices get for purchases with gold. When less people are spending real money for gems, the price of gold per gems goes up. This gives higher value to the gems to gold ratio, offering more gold to the real money users, to entice more real money purchases.

Zaviel.1245:

Perma-burning is very easy to do… anyone who complains about it has never played a condition build.

How does the ability to apply burning outside of the flamethrower have anything to do with the desire to have the flamethrower apply more burning? Your argument has no bearing here. It makes perfect thematic sense for the FT auto attack, for example, to maintain permanent burning in the same fashion that the EG auto attack maintains permanent high bleed stacks + permanent weakness, or how the TK auto attack maintains permanent vulnerability.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

You’re making assumptions about what I run. I run what I find fun and effective.

This is what everyone else does too. Yet you tell them how bad it is or in your words “bad build” …..I can quote you on this if you like. This conversation has come full circle, and you are now making the same arguments that others were making before, that you were arguing against. You have severely derailed this thread to be honest. This thread is simply a discussion of whether a skill was changed and what it was changed too. Whether or not you feel it is the best speed boost we have access to or how it rates compared to other speed effects we have, is in all essence, completely irrelevant and totally of topic.

Such as

Sooo how is perma 33% faster for 10 points in a good line worse than perma 25% for 20 points in a bad line?

and here

Soooo it’s for bad builds

You have even made 55 lines of post discussing Elixir infused bombs and berated other for taking traits in the invention line. Which is irrelevant to the topic.

As well, even in post specifically mentioning WvW you bashed choices or thoughts of traits in reference to PvP. So you are okay berating others for their choices, but we are supposed to accept yours when you take traits for fun or their effectiveness in what other want.

Like it or not, it is a good trait for those wanting a speed boost and looking to boost toughness or healing power. As well it is not a bad choice for those looking for a speed boost who are grabbing elixir infused bombs for PvE or WvW. Power shoes was changed in the last update, and it was absolutely a change for the better, and is in a very useful trait line to many players with builds that are certainly quit useful in many many situations.

The conversation only turns ugly when you see “hobo sac” discussions and “turrets”. But that is never poster to poster issues. It is kind of everyone against the design of one and the existence of the other.

The main positive here, is that although you do get the occasional individual trying to impose their opinion as law, the general community is well aware that we are the one professions that can use some very unexpected builds to do great things.

409 builds with elixirs does work well. I have to agree with that. My problem is that outside of elixirs, we have no solid or consistence condition removal at all. Gadgets have no condition removal, turrets are limited to 2 every 15 seconds (which is very limited), and even with a 4 kit build you only have access to 2 skills that each remove only one condition a piece, and is very spread out requiring a lot of of work to get to each of them compared to everything else.

Edit:

Engis have more condi removal than warriors, we have like, none. Stop QQing

None? seriously? You have basic healing skills such as “Mending” which is a standard burst healing skill, that removes 3 conditions every 20s. To so similarly with Healing turret, we have to stay in a limited radius while doing a 3 button combo. “cleansing ire” removes up to 3 conditions simply by using your professional mechanic. Which can be done as often as what? 10s?………..So, honestly it appears your the one QQing as you have post after post in and only in the “warrior” subforum then you come here and post a rude and somewhat uninformed one liner. If I had to guess, you probably are not familiar enough with engineer to even list our condition removal options without the wiki.

It is a pretty common build, that appears to work well for many players. I am not a personal fan of grenade builds, but it is very functional and you should do well with it. Simply dodge telegraphed hammer attacks, and use range to your advantage.

Wow. You need to relax my friend. You lecture on skills like Elixir infused bombs, yet appear unfamiliar with the skill. Then you make an ridiculously TLDR post that is all over the place.

I am sorry if it offends you to the point that you make so many back handed remarks, that we find value in traits you do not. You can rant and rave all you like, the traits will still have a solid value. Like it or not, Power shoes is a handy trait.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

…? If you aren’t swapping kits every 10 seconds you aren’t playing engi effectively at all. A good engineer makes at least a few swaps every 10 seconds, if not more when checking for cooldowns.

Actually if you are waiting 10s to swap kits, as your exclamations make it appear you are the one playing the engie wrong. Unlike yourself my friend, I prefer not to be tied to a specific chronological schedule to maintain my speed boost. I can never wait ten seconds before I swap. This would cause down time of a lack of speed boost. I personally prefer a 25% speed boost all of the time over a 33% speed boost 75% of the time, and swap my kits according to need of their specific weapons skills as I need them, rather then have that flow interrupted because I focused on doing what you specifically suggested and do it simply at internals that maximize my speed boost. If limiting you capabilities and play in combat is important enough to you to have an 8% speed boost over me, that is your prerogative. All the rest of us are suggesting, is that you stop being so rude to those who disagree.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sooo how is perma 33% faster for 10 points in a good line worse than perma 25% for 20 points in a bad line?

It’s good for those folk who run elixir infused bomb bunker, or for the odd zany kitless build that gets nothing out of speedy kits.[/quote]

Soooo it’s for bad builds until they buff those traits?[/quote]

How amusing. A posters is specifically suggesting timing your kit swapping for an 8% increase in speed, and bashing anyone who prefers a passive boost, so that they can change at optimal times in the flow of battle instead, and you attack those builds.

Look bud, have your opinion, that is great. But there are multiple game modes, and some builds may thrive in some and not others, but it really does you no good to insult others and attack them if you disagree or do not like skills they favor, and make false claims that they are bad builds simply because the poster is disagreeing with you on an altogether different topic.

Lippuringo.1742:

We don’t need con removal, we already have options for it. What we actually need is stun-breaker with curing immobolized and crippled. Or at least trait to make or con removal skills as stun breakers.

Actually we do need condition removal, specifically related to kits. As far as a stun breaker that cured immobilize, we already had one. on an extremely low cool down. Rocket boots. It was a stun breaker that broke immobilize, did AoE direct damage, applied burning, and was on a low cool down. Then our $%#!*& community made several threads complaining because it launched you backwards and away from the trouble, group, or mob that was immobilizing you. Now it lost 1/2 its great value and functionality, simply because some complainers wanted it for mobility instead.

Kontrolle.3514:

I will never forgive anet for destroying kit refinement, never ever.
This was the most awesome trait we had, it killed so much builds that i enjoyed.

This as well.
They destroy all of our cool toys. Remember how juggernaut was originally? As you said, they destroyed kit refinement. Remember using kits when invulnerable via Elixir S, and there is more to the list.

maciora.9542:

Its not only about gadgets, but why rocket shoes does not have knockback? In general pathetic dmg of some skills force u to play grenadier, ft or power engineer, when u want to play gadget engineer (lots of gadggets, passive boosts) they are to weak. Dmg is to pathetic, of course there is a lot of stacks like bleeding etc, but dmg – dmg is sooo weak. Its almost funny.

Thats the major issue, and lets not be fanboys here we all know when we got sigils on kits – almost after 1 year, what was a joke. Not finished class, that forces u to play one or to builds, where good funny build have dmg output so pathetic that it is a sad joke…

I find that hard to believe since my rocket kick does over 7k damage. You by no means have to use grenades. If you truely believe that, you need to explore more builds and learn more about various aspects of the profession, because your statements are a good deal factually inaccurate.

Granted they need a condition removal option. SS and UG could both use a recast reduction, mine and rocket boots do grat damage. Considering they are the only gadgets that are designed with a damage aspect, they are fairly solid and very useful.

david.9152:

what is the engineers playstyle?

Personally, I feel that this right here, and the fact that people ask it, is in itself a hinderence to the community, and expresses to me exactly why you were so surprised to be beat by them. If you look at a profession as a a play style in this game, you are limiting yourself right off the bat. you can build almost any profession to any play style. I know a thief commander on my server who is build extremely tanky. He commands, then subsequently plays the role of support as being the guy who can get any downed player up, anywhere, at anytime.

So the question is not what role or play style can the engie fulfill. The question you should be asking, is how to build to fulfill the role you want. Honestly, the engineers design really allows it to be fluid and easily taken from one extreme to the other in what it can do.

My biggest problem with the profession, is that we have kits in replacement of weapons swap, but were never given stun breakers or condition removals for those slots in which other professions use in those slots.

In order to have a weapons swap we have to sacrifice a stun breaker or solid condition removal. Unless we use EG, which is solid for a its utilitarian benefits + stun breaker, but we are left out in the cold if we chose other kits.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sooo how is perma 33% faster for 10 points in a good line worse than perma 25% for 20 points in a bad line?

Partially because your assumption that it is or isn’t bad, is just your opinion. You may feel a line with some very good defensive traits are bad. That doesn’t make it true. Further more, many players may feel they are busy enough on the engie, that they prefer not to have to pay attention to scheduled kit changes on top of it all simply for the speed boost.

You really should not confuse new readers by inaccurately claim the build you linked is the “best”. Personally after I saw the build and “best” in the same sentence, I literally laughed a loud.

Particularly when you make blanket statements, such as “you” cannot kill such and such class with this build, doesn’t even make sense. Honestly, you haven’t the slightest idea what the rest of the community can or cannot due my friend. Particularly when there is no such thing as a “best” build in WvW as a whole, or any game mode for that matter. Different builds will be better for roaming then for attacking or defending a keep.

In my case, I run a 100% condition duration build when I use this sigil. Thus, optimally I could proc a bled on my target every 2 seconds, stacking up to 5 bleeds for 700 DPS just from the sigils bleed alone. As I am managing 140 per single bleed tick.

XerreX.7196:

this is by far not the most bunkerish engi spec : D

you can check my stream build collection for the actual spec

I can appreciate that you desire to bring more to your stream, but why didn’t you just put it in your post so that they do not have to search for the build?

Changed in a recent update. It does work out of combat, as it reads, your not mistaken.

Edit: Looks like Penguin posted it as I was typing my post.

Every MMO I have ever seen with a personal trading system, has had the trading system used to duplicate gear. The lack of a trade system prevents duping and cheating.

I will add that to the notes, thanks Sobat. You have been a great help. Thanks again.

None of the skills of this nature trigger on launch. That is intended. They just recently adjusted Stun breakers to work on launches, but never actually made launches fall under the “stun” category as far as the game is concerned.

I never tested to see that it doesn’t go on CD though. That is interesting.

You do not have to like it, but earth is a solid sigil, regardless of what you say about it. It is very good damage for high condition duration builds, and matches very well with full rabid gear builds. Like it or not, it is solid for condition builds of all kinds. Maybe not the best for everything, but solid for condition builds.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

I would deeply like to see at some point in the future a customized HuD to avoid this sort of scenerio.

In a game based on animation..a picture of fire shaman sitting directly over fire shaman so you can’t see fire shamans animations.

I do not understand this complaint. Are you upset that you failed to adjust your own camera angle to match your field of view with your target? How is that relevant to this thread?

EFWinters.5421:

I think people are just angry that they marketed the game as grind-free, sold tons of units based on that premise, and then were already planning the massive grind that is Ascended gear before the game was even launched.

The problem is, that those people do not have the understanding to grasp their own decisions are the cause of this. I am sorry, but if your complaining that you chose to grind to earn what you need for a 5% increase, then you need to learn who is actually to blame for that decision. They held true to what they offered in this case particularly. The simple fact that you can always buy gems and convert them to gold to buy materials for ascended gear proves that you chose to grind. Even if you do not like the choices, that doesn’t mean they are not their. All you doing is making false claims, stating that they offer you no choice, simply because you may not like the choices. You may continue to complain that you are required to grind all you like. I assure you that you are not required to do it at all. The problem is not with Anet in this case, it is your absolute lack of acceptance of this fact that is the problem.

Antara.3189:

you cannot compare the amount sold between the two games during the first year, since GW1 was not a sequel to an already best selling game. But statistically speaking, if GW2 truly does outperform GW1, then in 7 years, it should sell over 7 million copies.

Copies sold is irrelevant. Income is what matters, and right now, the sales+income via gem store is blowing away the level of income GW1 had.

Only one skill in FT and TK is actually condition damage, while all the P/P skills are condition damage. Honestly, they are the two least complimentary kits for P/P. They would mesh well with rifle though. If you stay in a kit almost all of the time though, it could work, assuming you have the duel pistols just for 2 sigils.

If you are determined to try it, I might start with something like this and go from there.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqenIEV7aWLSuQ9aEZkCOT0A9ouurRUkC9rxA-jwBBofBkIAgKAM1sIasV3FRjVtET/iIqWKAmUGB-e

Arantheal.7396:

>Flame blast does more damage then Big Ol’ Bomb
cite needed

Detonate Flame Blast damage: 569 Damage Coefficient 1.750 Recast 6s
Big Ol’ Bomb Damage: 548 Damage Coefficient 1.700 Recast 30s

That is just counting Detonate Flame blast, and not including the 244 base damage and 0.750 damage coefficient of the launching of Flame Blast that Detonate Flame Blast actually stacks on top of.

Are those the facts you were asking for when you said “cite needed”?

Haralin.1473:

retalation will kill every FT build in Zergfights maybe in roaming it is good, but i prefer bombs over FT more damage and more utility in roaming and zerg.

This is where you apply common sense and not auto attack into a zerg stacking retaliations. Its not rocket science here, why would anyone spam the weakest auto attack our professions has, into a zerg anyway? It just doesn’t make any sense. For that matter, why are using any auto attack on the engineer at all?

Flame blast does more damage then Big Ol’ Bomb, which is the strongest hitting bomb we have, yet flame blast is on a 6s recast, untraited. It always strikes me as odd how player dismiss the FT so easy, simply because of the auto attack, particularly on a profession in which playing the auto attack is a sign of poor play.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Bomb Kit Engi is one of the best classes to take for FOTM. Having a smoke field is so huge in Dredge. And with Modified Ammo, it’s probably the best AoE DPS in the game right now that isn’t a conjured weapon.

I was actually just about to suggest the same thing. Particularly after someone listed damage kits and didn’t list the best damage we have. I have been addicted to bombs since beta. I mean, what’s not to love about dropping a big powder keg like Big Ol’ Bomb? For that matter, how can you nor love a skill simply because it is called Big Ol’ Bomb.

ellesee.8297:

earth is bad.

With this sigil, in rabid gear, at just 50% condition duration, it is a constant 200 DPS. I have to question logic in which the first thing your stating is that a solid 200 DPS is bad. It is actually a very good sigil considering it is a now maintenance sigil that is very cheap to acquire. It may not be an ideal sigil, but to blatantly label it as bad is inaccurate.

I am curious. After I have, as far as I can tell, single handedly maintained the entire engineer wiki, to the best of my abilities, by my self since it started in, 2012 during the betas, why is it that after I ask the community for some assistance at all, that you posted recognizing the guy who informed me of 10 things I missed, while excluding me from that all together?

Although I agree and thank Sobat for his time, it sure doesn’t instill confidence in my efforts after updating thousands lines of information over the past year and five plus months that others are thanked for the effort, yet mine go un noticed. Particularly after I have to ask for help, yet out of the entire community, I get replies of information from only one poster.

When my sylvari doe any combo finisher and yells

“I make a great team”.

Always love that line. The best part is, its so cheesy and egotistical, that it needs no spin.

Why are you running so little defense in WvW that any skill does 15k damage too you?
Anytime your running that little defense in WvW, as far as I am concerned, you deserve every bit of damage you take.

No word on expansions. This game is systematically designed and set up, so that all of the items an expansion normally offers can be added, without actually selling an expansion disc.

Yes, I would say your chances are very good from my experience.

I do not like the idea of mounts just for cosmetic reasons either. I found no value in adding that much more graphic rendering to cause lag.

Mounts are just a horrible idea, no matter how you cut it in my opinion.

Forestnator.6298:

maul: Damage: 434 (x1.5)
blunderbuss: 618 (x1.6)

Not regarding the bleeds on blunderbuss … where do u see more damage? :-o

Don’t you feel the 40% lower cool down on maul as well as its 5 stacks of vulnerability are relevant as well? These facts appear to have been ignored for some reason

First thing I would like to say, is please stop using the GW2 forums to complain about GW1.

Most of your complaints are irrational and poorly explained. I cannot even se where you are trying to go, other then to complain about GW1 related issues, the fact that you have a crappy PC, and your irrational comparisons of things in this game to real life. Learn to separate fantasy game play from reality. They do not make game design based on the real world, the base game play on the game world they have created.

I would probably frame its greatest value in WvW. Although I admit, I am always very unclear why so many of you with little to no WvW experience, speak so much of zerging.

Just because the OP is a PvPer does not limit the conversation to PvP my friend. Open your mind good sir. This game has more then one aspect.

What do you mean you have never seem me in PvP? How is that relevant? My main account has me ranked higher then you in PvP, so does that make it more relevant for me to speak my friend?

Sorry, but I have difficulty accepting that where you rank in PvP, decides the weight of your opinion on skills and traits.

Since you are attempting to define what makes a good roamer in WvW, what defines a roamer in WvW? What is the purpose? As you see it.

A few questions.

Since when does what a single individual or very very small group of high ranked PvP players encompass the community, as you are suggesting?

Why are you limiting everything to PvP?

I see no where in the title or the OP that is restricting this conversation to PvP. Why do you jump to exclude all the PvE and WvW players here?

Forestnator.6298:

I am preatty sure you are breakfast to me.

Are you suggesting your going to eat me?

I am with K U T M on this one. I am a solid advocate since celestial gear was released. I had a full set the first day it was possible to have completed my last piece, and have loved it ever since. I received a lot of argumentative resistance about using it, here and on other forums, but as time has allowed others to expand their experience with it, I see that many players are beginning to discover its value.

ellesee.8297:

. i listed the traits i don’t use as per the thread.

The title is “What engineer trait have you never used?”

It says never not prefer or like.

ellesee.8297:

just because you don’t use a trait doesn’t mean it’s not good. some traits fit certain play styles you don’t enjoy playing.

I agree. My point was, how do you know how useful a trait is or is not if you have never used it?

I would advise every engineer player, to at least go to the mist, where respecing is 100% free and test them all in small battles against the misc. AI controlled classes.

I mean lets take you specifically for example. You very specifically point out that you have never even used a single skill in the inventions tree here, yet in another thread you say

the inventions tree is poopy

Yet here you confess to never having used a single skill in the tree at all. So how do you know they are “poopy” as you put it?

I have seen you specifically discuss specific skills in other threads, skills that you list here as having never used. To make post exclaiming how bad a skill is or how much someone should never use it, when you yourself have pointed out that you have never so much as even experimented with it is a fairly toxic pattern of forum behavior in my opinion.

Forestnator.6298:

coglin.1867:

ellesee.8297:

the inventions tree is poopy

Protective shield, stabilizing armor, and cloaking device are 3 traits that expand your survivability a great deal. Automated medical response can really be a life saver. Reinforced shield isn’t great, but it is good. As well, Elixir infused bombs is integral and build defining for many players builds. Personally I feel you have to be crazy to believe that it is, as you so intelligently put it, “poopy”.

Coglin always palliates bad things for engineer. Indeed over all engineer is in a good place and no one has to naysay anything. But there are definitly things not in their final state for engineer. So it is the inventions tree line. There is one single good trait there: Automated Medical Response. And this is not even a major trait. All other traits are not worth picking compared to other trait lines.

Palliates? Seriously? Protective shield and stabilizing armor are great traits. You can name call and make personal accusations all you like, but it is a fact that players design entire builds around elixir infused bombs.

There are several traits in this line that are very good traits. Comparing some of your past complaints about the engineer professions as a whole, to the long list of very useful traits and skills that you have titled as “useless” or “not worth picking”, I can see why you feel the engineer is worth all of the endless complaining you have devoted to it. If you excluding so many of these great traits and skill in your build, I can see why your getting your tail handed to you by even the newest of up leveled players.

garythesnail.8475:

Yeah its pretty dumb to have a healing turret that we always blow up/pick up right after overcharging…

Actually, that was a forced situation by the player base. They gave the turret a Water field, then would blow it up for the blast finisher heal. Obviously this was making it the better heal skill with a full heal on application, condition removal, AoE regen, and another AoE heal off the blast finisher.

It was not dumb at all for Anet to make the reasonable way it works now. Otherwise, what would you chose to lose in trade? Because something, if not 2 things would of had to go.

Having said that, I hardly feel it is wise to call it “dumb” for not being overpowered in a bad way.

I have used them all, but most of it was academic, because I was confirming or updating the wiki page.

Honestly though, I am seeing some traits listed and shaking my head. Because some of the traits I am seeing listed as having never used are good ones. Not saying they are must haves, but you should have at the least, used it just to see for yourself, what it does.

Given the almost nonresistant cost of respecing, there really is no reason not to have tried them to experience for yourself, how they work or feel when applied in actual combat.

Quesndale has champion trains that are good for leveling. Personally I leveled all of my characters in WvW.

OP has not put much thought into this. If you should be moving full speed after attacked, then why should the guy attacking you be slowed? At that point, the speeds are relative, and you will still be run down.

I completely disagree with the OP.