Guild Wars 2

lordkrall.7241:

Because someone that is actually good have no need to shout about being good?
A good player don’t need to get confirmation from other people to know that they are good.
And people shouting about being good in chat simply looks like kittenholes.

LOL, seriously, this thread could have been closed after this replay. It sums it up just perfectly.

thiagoperne.7340:

What if they nerf thiefs and yet you stil can’t deal with them? Isn’t that more humiliation? Don’t ask for things to get worst when it can get better by your own hands.

I don’t even…..

/facepalm

nagymbear.5280:

Fighting thieves until you know their every move is not a counter to stealth, its a workaround. The fact that you can damage someone in stealth is not a counter. You can damage players with a retaliation boon, but it is not a counter for it. The fact that you have to leave stealth to attack is not a counter, its the devs throwing bone to hungry dogs. Stealth is not the only skill in this game which doesn’t have a counter mind you. The problem is not that thieves can go into stealth and run away. The problem is that some thieves have a lot of access to stealth, and some classes (not builds, classes) don’t have access to a lot of aoes to deal with them.

As for “It doesn’t make me any more likely to win against a good opponent if I decide to stay”, believe it or not, some builds/classes need to burn cooldowns to survive against a thief. So you can stay there in stealth while these players use their skills just to stay alive, and you can try again when they are on cooldown.

Agreed. I’ve tried explaining this before and I don’t see how people can defend current thief mechanics. Take a good hard look at the Shadow Arts trait line. And yes, what about the classes that can’t throw out AoEs all willy nilly? And even if they can, should they pigeon hole themselves into certain setups just to fight thieves?

Then some will say “play a thief and you’ll learn how to kill them”, that’s hogwash too, getting over the fact that the person might have little to no interest in playing a thief, it’s also horrific logic to suggest that someone spend their gaming time playing a class just to be somewhat effective at dealing with their gimmicky mechanic and it still boils down to “spray and pray”. Plus I don’t see anyone suggesting players do this for Guards, Rangers, Necros, Engineers etc etc and I wonder why. There is always a lowest common denominator class but they went overkill with the thieves. Moving around unhindered and unseen is intrinsically powerful and Anet knows this.

They should be fixed, period.

It’s pretty much about server pride from the start. You get enough material gain to cover armor repairs just fine but don’t think you’re going to make “kiss my kitten” money from WvWvW. I never cared about rankings, the design of WvWvW makes that meaningless, it’s pretty much coverage wars and the higher tier servers just have more people doing it(whether it’s their original server or not is pointless) and showing up isn’t really what I’d consider an accomplishment.

Liquid.9672:

…..

In the end though, my primary motivator is still the same. It’s those nights when your favorite commander is running your squad, moving around the map as a tight unit, and engaging groups of enemy players on the field and at keeps and towers. It’s the thrill of that, and the uncertainty of the outcome of each encounter, that keeps me playing, and why I still care.

I feel similarly, if it wasn’t for the comedy that is our Teamspeak I’d probably be less inclined to play. We had pretty much everything a few hours into reset and the large battles and little skirmishes turn out in our favor for the most part even when we’re sandwiched between, so that thrill is diminishing. It’s starting to feel like some kind of failed experiment.

I like how people are actually trying to defend this kind of kittened up game design. I wonder how many players have fun fighting thieves that go into stealth every few seconds(not people who can kill them, people who have fun fighting heavy stealth thieves.). The devs themselves said they weren’t supposed to be stealth dependent (for very good reason), yet look how that turned out. I don’t care that they have burst but burst plus the kind of constant access they have to this godawful GW2 stealth is just stupid(stealth has zero downside in this game — absolutely none). Guessing where to swipe the air and drop AoEs isn’t skillful play, its bullkitten and is cause for Anet’s future products to get the side eye from me.

I think each borderland should be unique at the very least. They already said it will never be balanced (and it can’t) so I don’t know why they used this as an excuse for having three kittening copies of the same map. I like the idea of cycling in some new maps ever so often, it’s part of The Mists, so why not have serious variation in the maps? I’d love to storm a castle that’s powered by a volcano or a trap laden keep built on ancient ruins amongst the windy dunes of the Crystal Desert or the jungles of Maguuma or old Ascalon.

Homonavn.6348:

Didnt get of the map, but i took this while RoF was against FoW and vabbi…

Wow and I thought our match up was lopsided :/ That is kittening atrocious and I can’t imagine that being a fun week for anybody(except maybe the map completion people on green).

Calae.1738:

If you don’t know what this is or have never seen it in action before; we’re about to see one with this new match up system.

I’m puzzled, are you talking about servers dying?

Xirin.8593:

I read “Hammer Punts” as “Hammer Pants” at first. Even after I realized my mistake and the subsequent disappointment set in, I still thoroughly enjoyed the video.

A++ would watch again.

LOL.

I’ll admit, when I heard the song I started cracking up.

Wait, wasn’t PAXA on NSP at one point?

codiac.5642:

Well a few people from BP have been on here saying we should learn like they did, maybe they can help out a guy from a T8 server and share some tricks?

I would like to learn where to place AC’s outside the north inner gate of Hills to be able to hit like this. I have other pics taken before this where the AC’s followed me back all the way from the supply near the gate.

The circles tracked me back all the way from they supply which is a pretty huge field of fire.

I don’t condone hacking, it ruins the game. And yes if you build an AC at the door, you can use the gap to legitimately hit a lot(the screenshot doesn’t include the actual AC user so I don’t know where they are) and having AC mastery just compounds the problem, then there’s the screen size trick and that’s a real grey area. Building and keeping an AC on that position should be hard against any decent defense, also, another AC could have taken it out without too much hassle.

You guys are in a tough spot, in a zerg friendly game of coverage wars your server drew the short straw. Yes BP stepped up our tactics but that hardly matters when we outnumber you guys as much as we do constantly and that’s the reality of the game design. After weeks of seeing ‘the’ Ebay players who are brazen and tunnel visioned enough to congratulate themselves for this gloat on the forums, I know it can get old real fast.

Darkorical.9213:

snip.

I hear what you’re saying and I fully expected these kinds of responses. I mean seriously, look where we are.

@ DeWolfe

Have you thought about sending that suggestion to Anet?

While not server vs server, I saw the same thing happen in Aion, one group greatly outnumbers the other on a consistent basis until the they stop showing up to fight and then a ton of people get bored on both sides but at least those sieges were on timers. Anet took it into a crazy and demanding direction. It’s one thing to throw massive groups of random people together to fight(seriously, does it get more arbitrary than a server?!), but then to make that fight a three way that lasts 24/7, I think is over the top, stressful and sadistic lol. Even the fun fights are starting to not be worth it and I’m logging in less.

I’ve said it before, I don’t see why they didn’t go with instanced, large scale battles between guilds and or alliances. Then maybe the fights could be e-sport grade (I wonder if they forgot about that).

That seems to be the case.

Also, you’re going to have to choose between being helpful and leveling lol :P Running yaks, building siege, upgrading and watching structures is helpful to others but it slows down leveling big time.

You don’t have to stay geared. Get a shortbow, follow the zerg, stay out of the fray and spam AoEs. Of course your server would have to have zergs running around regularly to begin with.

But but…this is Burst Wars 2.

On a serious note, yes they made damage > everything else and some classes are capable of crazy amount of burst. Why make a game where it’s even possible for player to die before they can react?

/shrug :|

If Anet is going to take it on themselves to balance WvWvW populations then many people would probably end up giving up something called “server pride”, which is funny and sad at the same time because this is exactly what server vs server fosters especially since the servers don’t get bo diddly for their efforts anyway. There are some shockingly short sighted design choices at the core of WvWvW. I would have preferred to see guild or alliance battles with say…20 or 50 man teams in a three way fight from a pool of all servers, instead they went ape kitten with this whole “persistent world” bit.

Edit: When I say 20 or 50 man teams, I was talking about instanced battles not placing a cap on a "persistent"map at 50 people per team. That way, if you lose it’s because you were outplayed and or unprepared and not because you’re constantly outnumbered. They had a good thing going in GW1, I don’t know why they strayed so far away.

Kimbald.2697:

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

Agreed. Fighting on the walls is already a kittened experience in WvWvW (seriously, they really should revamp defending structures in here). Guarding towers is even more necessary with the 30 second contested delay they added, and it’s awful for small groups trying to get into a say tower when there’s a zerg in full swing out front. Too often I find myself rolling my eyes and logging off.

Thaia.5146:

Snip

“Anticipate where the thief would most likely be.”
“Use channel abilities, because surely everybody must use them (also you have to start it before they stealth!)”
“Use AoEs, because every class has a bunch on hand to counter the multiple times a thief goes stealth in a given fight! (see first tactic)”
“Bring friends and zerg them down!(yes I’ve read this as actual advice on here, lol also see first tactic again)”
“[insert another of the “many” ways to kill thieves]"

It comes down to a “spray and pray” tactic, as the thief is allowed to make informed decisions and you are not (how sophisticated and “innovative”!). You can kill novice thieves using any of the ways I’ve sarcastically parroted but a semi decent thief will just get away if the fight goes wrong for them. It amazes me people are defending this terrible design even when the Anet promoted the idea that thieves should not be stealth dependent and yet they made them pretty much gimps without it.

I’m speaking pretty much from a WvWvW point of view as I no longer care for the PvE here.

Throw pistols in there while we’re talking about it.

Edit: ok seriously I’m getting “kitten” throw into my posts, and its annoying.

Sophie Lone.8576:

gennyt.3428:

This is just as pointless as the “hater” threads. Unless GW2 is putting food on your table why do you care?

Because when all these people are making these crazy comments about the state of the game and they are no where true it hurts the community as some will believe these comments and stop playing or convince players that want to start playing that the game is a dead bug filled world. I want to see criticism but not ridiculous statements.

1. I’ve never let a forum be the deciding factor on whether or not I try a game. I think this is common.

2.I do watch for a trend in negative feedback , as all games have issues and if I do try it, I want to know what to look for and what the devs are doing about it. Even some of the more bitter threads can make valid points.

Those people who paid money just like you should be quiet about their experience? Using dismissive and loaded labels like “crazy” and “haters” doesn’t strengthen your argument, especially when all you have is PR spin to make your case. We, as players, regardless of our stance, can speculate all day on how the game is actually doing. So once again, I don’t really see the point of the thread, no offense.

This is just as pointless as the “hater” threads. Unless GW2 is putting food on your table why do you care?

Pedra.4381:

Sil.4560:

You know what doesn’t crack me up? Our dumpsters being full. BP and AR if you could lose some weight so that we have more room in our dumpsters later, that’d be great, thanks.

Sil.4560:

Amins.3710:

And this is where we say… please reference the OP’s Topic.

Thank you for playing.

I don’t need this condescending and rude sort of remark. “Thank you for playing.” Who do you think you are? Until you can learn to respond like a civilized human being and actually provide a relevant argument, I’m not interested in what you have to say. I thought we’d gone over this in the past.

Pot, meet Kettle.

ROFL truly hilarious.

Mathias.9657:

…
It’s like they want combat completely chaotic and messy.

Would that surprised you? lol :P

Got any links to that merger info?

In a mode where players are basically fighting for “server pride” and bragging rights, it’s a little comical (and telling of the devs’ shortsightedness) if that were to happen.

Sub level 80s don’t hurt WvWvW, selfish players hurt WvWvW. I have several geared 80s but I enjoy playing my level 30 Mesmer at the moment. I do my share of maintaining structures, building and operating siege, running yaks, scouting and dropping ports rather than running with the blob and I don’t need to be anywhere near level 80 to do that.

^ Did you even read before posting this kitten?

@ Gix

Your opening line was pretty vague and abstract so let me make my point clear.

The WvWvW maps are not a part of Tyria they are a part of The Mists. So what “world” are we exploring in the borderlands or when hopping ledges in Eternal Battlegrounds? It’s Anet’s way of funneling people who probably aren’t normally interested in PvP onto a PvP map.

nekitten234:

snip

Thats good. However, I’ve seen many people who’d rather hop up to a vista and disappear than stay and help defend what we have. Who’ll show up to help is already a gamble, a pretty desicive one at that, it could have been handled differently by Anet.

Kedarrian.2905:

There needs to be an additional different coloured star award for the pve map only completion. Not everyone cares about playing wvw or is chasing a legendary. Pve is essentially map completion to many people. At the moment, only the pve+wvw is recognised as an achievement. To me, the matter is not about legendaries, its simply about having 100% pve map completion recognised. It seems very odd that its not when you stop to think about it. Below is a thread i started on this just a couple days ago. Again, for me this matter is nothing to do with getting a prerequisite for legendaries. Its about getting a star for pve map completion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Map-completion-star-for-Pve-map-only

Agreed. I think a lot of people make the dangerous assumption that people want map completion only to make legendaries and then WvWvW conveniently becomes PvE (which it ins’t, it’s in the PvP forums here, so lets just make peace with that). Some people just want the star and title for exploring Tyria. Personally, I have been playing for titles in GW1 for years and had a lot of fun doing it.

What does Rata Sum have to do with this? By the way Metrica Province is connected to Brisband Wildlands and Celedon Forest and those are connected to other areas, so not being able to walk to Rata Sum just isn’t true.

But anyways, I support the map completion being taken out of WvWvW, I do no care about legendaries, I do care that there are people jamming up the maps who are not there to help the server at all.

Gix.9742:

Chrispytoast.3698:

snip

snip some more

- It’s upwards of 90% PvE only and the overwhelming percentage of map completion in WvWvW is on identical maps. Of course they can implement whatever they want, it’s their game but that seems kind of silly to me and I can understand why some people view it as a PvE achievement.

- I don’t think this is about Asura gates being used. I can be in Southsun Cove and waypoint to the Rata Sum Port Authority as long as I’ve discovered it, while I cannot even see the WvWvW maps unless I’m in WvWvW. They’re as separate as the sPvP lobby and yet they count for map completion.

Vayne.8563:

JoxerNL.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Stuff

Some stuff

Stuff in reply

I’m sorry you can’t just throw in words like “subroutines” and expect that analogy to work. And yes, a reliably reproduced bug does generally make it easier to find than one that is not. That’s what he was saying.

tigirius.9014:

phabby.8945:

I feel that the lack of playing around with builds is so missing in gw2.

In gw1 there was nothing better then mucking around with the selection of a secondary skill set to make your toon more interesting to play.

I feel that there isn’t enough choice of skills with the weapon setups locked and the rest don’t have enough diversity .

I do hope that the devs will see that this is a point that should be addressed to make the game more diverse to play.

Completely agree. Right now as a PVE engineer if you don’t absolutely pick certain things in your trait lines you will not survive.

You actually have to nerf yourself as an engineer (like we need any help with nerfs!) to get things like a faster run speed or boons. You really do. It’s sickening. We’re supposedly versatile then why am I being pigeonholed into a single set of choices that if I don’t take them I and killing myself in game?

I agree, a lot of the Engy traits are less than stellar. I had to meticulously fiddle with them to get a decent roaming build for WvWvW (though I haven’t gotten around to playing him since the last patch). I manage to plow through Thieves and solo supply camps with pretty high consistency, the latter being far more interactive and fun unfortunately. Just being allowed to save utility presets would be a step in the right direction IMHO

By “other people fixing a problem”, you mean the people who made the game and have access to the code that decides whether or not skills have LoS limitations? And I don’t care what you have a problem with. I stopped reading after that.

Jski.6180:

gennyt.3428:

Update!

Seriously, Anet fix this kitten. Massive game breaking oversight. 5 vs 20 and ALL the seige on the walls were destroyed this way and as you can see it didn’t stop there.

Well the fact that your sitting there letting him do it so you can get a pic of it is saying a lot about your self.
To land DT you must be right on the wall and you cant see ppl on the wall and if they are going to attk you down. Its easy to kill the ElE pulling this off.

What is says about me, is that I’m positioning myself to get a screenshot of something I think is a problem. Have you ever tried to get a clear screenshot of something? Well it happened to me.

And I guess I was supposed to manage to fight on walls being pounded by multiple catapults and ballistas or take a lvl 28 Mes, jump down in all that and kill the offending eles and get back around inside the tower passed all the other enemies and wait for them to run back and do it all again.

Targeting something on the ground level of a tower from outside is suspect. It is silly that this skill does not require LoS. Having a narrow range of where siege can be placed is also ridiculous, seriously the towers are only so big and everything on the walls and to an extent even inside the structure is open to be hit by this skill and suspiciously only that skill. And what do these eles do? Bomb and zip back into the zerg. What’s the point of siege in towers at this rate. It’s not about hardcore (in this case people who know the crazy inconsistencies with this mode) and casuals, it’s about nonsensical mechanics.

Update!

Seriously, Anet fix this kitten. Massive game breaking oversight. 5 vs 20 and ALL the seige on the walls were destroyed this way and as you can see it didn’t stop there.

To the people saying stealth is a thief’s only real defense and that you can’t just nerf it, well yeah they made the thief very stealth reliant and they said that it wasn’t supposed to be that way when they were marketing this game. It needs a core redesign.

One person gets to make informed decisions, the other doesn’t? How the kitten is that balanced? I’ve left people swiping thin air like lunatics, putting skills on cooldown and then came back for the kill at my leisure and they can’t do that to me.

Anybody defending kittening ridiculous tactics like “spray and pray” should really go quietly sit down and whittle something.

The siege is as far back as it can go. Try again.

DeWolfe.2174:

You could always jump down and kill the ele! Btw…. can we talk about Mesmer’s and illusions going behind gates and ON TOP OF walls? Pot meet kettle…

You know, I thought of that, except she’d just cart herself right into her 7 other allies building a catapult, but thanks for the suggestion! I haven’t had to deal with illusions getting behind gates, but if I did, I’d bring it here too in the name of fair gameplay.

You’re in a tough spot since all that WvWvW amounts to is “server pride” . No coverage, no “win”. I can see myself quitting WvW before I switch servers.

You’re right. Wow, Anet needs to stop dragging their kitten on that one. Not cool. I have to deal with LoS because of a 6 inch high railing but that skill can bomb siege behind walls, nice.

It’s not just an issue of LoS. How is the player targeting that area, is what I’d like to know.

MasterYoda.8563:

It’s not cheating, just part of the risk of putting siege to close to where the bad guys can kill it.

That would make some sense if I didn’t hover over the very tip of the back of the wall when I placed the siege, its the furthest I could place it. The player was able to mouse over that spot and hit dead center on the build site, the circle is even falling inside the tower.

Somebody explain this for me please. I’m having a hard time thinking this is intended. I guess we shouldn’t put siege on walls now?

gabal.4520:

I agree, you are supposed to fend off an invading force if you are prepared. We were prepared in defending Cragtop and managed to destroy every siege invaders built. Eventually they ran out of supplies and proceeded to just auto-attack the gates down with 50 people they had in front of the tower by then. It was silly.

LOL that is hilarious! What’s even worse about situations like that is, maybe there were a few people who could’ve helped in defending but they couldn’t make it passed those 50 people blocking the only entrance and doing a little repairing to hold until backup arrives is pretty much a death sentence.

Rezzet.3614:

…also just because zergs have lots of players that doesnt make 80% of them mentally challenged and unskilled
….

Exactly!

Iruwen.3164:

They did, this was their intention. If you can’t group and organize properly, the game won’t fix it for you. If the others have a big zerg, either try to play better, have an even bigger zerg, or split up and play tactically.

Here’s the thing about that.

1. “Try to play better”. What does that mean exactly? If you know your class inside and out, you cannot account for the skill level of others. And I hope Anet isn’t leaning on someone mentoring random people because they care about WvWvW so much.

2. Having a bigger zerg a lot of times is not an option.

3. Coverage is key, split up a hand of of people(handful being relative) and end up being less effective in general. See points 1 and 2.

WvWvW is a matter of force and really nothing else.

Funderstorm.3652:

I just picked this game up again after buying it at release day and only leveling to 20. I never did WvW then so I figured I would try it out now…. HOWEVER, I can’t find it!!! The only thing I see is “Which Server is More Popular” mode. Everytime I join it, my World literally has TWO, yes two, of the fort/area things in all four of the regions. Everytime I find a group of people (at most like 10) we try to attack a place only to be insta-killed by a huge group of 20-30+ people. No matter where we try to attack, its always the same thing.

Whats the point of a mode where its just whoever has the most people on their server wins?!?!?

This is a legitimate concern. And I would like to see how they make this mode more sensible. I don’t know how they(the devs) didn’t see this happening.

There are others games that do that reward big time based around how much free time players have to kill. And this isn’t about content. They could add content that is accessible to players who don’t even have a level capped character and that wouldn’t fit into what you’re asking for now would it? Doesn’t sound like GW2 is the game for you.