Guild Wars 2

Not feeling the potato settings tbh.

Reverence.6915:

Sarrs.4831:

BG conveniently seems to be on break whenever they lose. True or not, it’s a bit boring.

Not really. We had 5-6 guilds (depends if you consider disbanding as leaving) leave BG before the DB matchup due to queues and/or lack of fights, as well as some commanders having RL priorities this week means less coverage.

Yep. The roaming/havoc sized group that’s left of our guild moved from BG to DB because people would kitten and complain about not being to out blob/PPT BG rather than fight. At least BG has people for us to brawl with.

apharma.3741:

I’m a little confused how repair hammers are going to make a blob repairing siege they just placed stronger than the current blobs that just build more siege when it is destroyed.

I’d assume repairing would cost the same as building so I’m not seeing any particular advantage to repairing over just building more when it’s destroyed, except for golems.

There will be a difference if the weapon has no down time during repair. There is an advantage in being able to keep firing versus waiting around for something to get built/resupplying.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Eypheha.5831:

Not only do I believe repair hammers are ‘moot’ as another player put it, but I believe Anet is wasting time and effort on an item that doesn’t matter to WvW. Is this the scrap to the starving mob that’s suppose to placate…geez, they must think we’re all simpletons.

Well are you surprised ANet thinks most of us are simpletons. As boots on the ground in T1. All I see is kitten near everyone resorting to simpleton actions. I mean come on rolling around the map as a single 60 plus man mob when you can split up and take more then one objective at the same time? That’s what you call the actions of a bunch of simple minded people. All of the T1 servers are guilty of this including mines but not the constant degree as the other two, but I suspected this is only true because we don’t have nearly have the population as the other two, if we did we’d Omni-Blob all day as well.

From what I hear in the lower Tiers it sounds like the same stuff going on. I mean we all know there are 4 maps and many different objectives yet many many WvWers just prefer to Omni Blob. Then you have the majority (Not All) TC and YB players that just refuse to fight as WvW communities and will run from much smaller groups then them selves, and try to lure you to their spawn or massive siege bunkered down objectives. And kill you when their is absolutly no challenge.

With all of this crap going on by the more then roughly 3 quarters of the WvW player base across all Tier’s. Can you truthfully blame ANet for treating us like the simpletons that most of the WvW player base are?

Those people in blobs aren’t simple minded, I don’t think that’s a fair description, they’re just not competitive. But then neither are the small groups that set out to PvD for points and run when there is some semblance of resistance. It’s the resulting population of a developer being out of touch and PvE focused for years.

Reztek.7805:

morrolan.9608:

scerevisiae.1972:

Case in point the grassroots GVG scene that was really popular 18 months ago, that Anet went out of their way to kill off/ignore. This was at a time when participation in sPVP (Player vs Point) was basically non-existent. I used to work in a major game company, I can tell you with certainty that other game companies would kill to have a grassroots competitive scene spring up in one of their games and they would have fostered the kitten out of it.

This is so true IIRC the twitch viewing numbers of major GvGs at the time significantly outstripped viewing numbers for official spvp competitions. Anet just had (and continue to have) their head in the sand.

FYI: (Most) Guilds/GvGs destroyed WvW. Most ‘real’ WvW players who understood the game mode, stuck to their server and tried to play as a team got sick of WTJ-guilds who stood around doing nothing for 2 hours for 15 minutes of GvG. Lot of forum threads prove this and the map chat at that time was pretty obvious too. So after all, the game mode became rather toxic.

Those self proclaimed ‘pro’ guilds were also involved in the development process of the desert borderlands, which are deserted.

ANet failed to create a GvG mode outside of WvW. Though i doubt many guilds would have used it (see obsidian sanctum). Since most of their accomplishments were fighting ppl without voice-com.

FYI: Most guilds that GvG’d also raided and some were instrumental in developing metas that were used throughout the years so slow down on tossing around labels like “real WvWvWrs”. I know it’s fashionable to blame fight/GvG guilds for WvWvW toxicity but your post reeks of the kind of control freak nastiness that plagues some PPT players. Fight guilds moved around because they want quality, fun fights, not to sit on siege and take comfort in single colored maps in order to win 3 greens per week and appease random people. It’s bizarre that you’re mad at that.

Also, setting aside the fact that there were big PvE guilds involved as well, the WvWvW people who beta tested the DBL voiced concerns to Anet, only to have virtually none of it addressed.

And another FYI, Obsidian Sanctum has seen its fair share of usage before Anet chased away the bulk of the competitive minded players.

Someone doling out FYIs should really know these things.

GW’s implementation of siege weapons shouldn’t be repairable, some are incredibly powerful and common as dirt on top of that. I’m gonna laugh my kitten off when blobs just repair their siege through defensive siege fire and the guys in the walls get blown up trying to repair their’s.

@ SpellOfIniquity

I believe the prevalence of vets in WvWvW these days is only one factor. A big reason why 15v40 is less possible these days is because the combat now requires significantly less effort in order to be effective, so numbers matter more. There are many people who’ve been playing for years and are still bad at fighting because being skilled in this aspect wasn’t/isn’t their aim. However, lots of passives, bundle skills (mitigate damage/deal damage/improve mobility all in one button), unblockables and an abundance of AoE skills and boons offset this lack of effort. Another blow to smaller groups was the change to a 10 target limit on wards, the skills that at least allowed groups to get around the AoE cap to strip stab and break up blobs/set up bombs.

Straegen.2938:

lil devils x.6071:

I DO think 15 vs 40 should definitely be possible with all things equal if the game put more emphasis on player skill than on luck.

Let me fix that for you:

I DO think 15 vs 40 should definitely be possible with all things equal if the game put more emphasis on player skill than AoE spam.

So basically, it won’t ever ever happen because Anet will scare away the casual crowd that they’ve been courting for 4 years.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Jayne.9251:

HazyDaisy.4107:

But Suprisingly not many pvers realized that, most that used that trick were wvwers who would pop in from let’s say VB read map chat and see orange and then get sucked in to an hour long fight.

If anything, the crafting stations helped more than hurt. Taking them away has denied defense the possibility of getting a few extra bodies and their supply. The true trolls, que takers, spies etc. are probably hanging out in some obscure location like the JP.

Oh c’mon.

You’re not being honest here.

Those that came into craft would very rarely dip a toe into WvW. It wasn’t their scene.

As many many many who protested this change have said: They used it as a “cheat” to get back to the exact same spot in PVE they were prior, and be able to access bank, etc …

Did you personally monitor the crafting stations 24/7 to see? Neither did I! So, I cant say 100%, if you can, it seems you’re taking a que space by monitoring what everyone else is doing. I don’t need to pop into wvw to use the bank because I got a very lucky Black Lion drop, but my fiance (who also wvws) popped in several times over the years for bank access and always got sucked in the “need help at”.

I’m not saying some pvers weren’t using this “cheat” as you phrased it, I said wvwers used it more. Also, there are still ques, so how many spaces did this change free up, and how much have we lost since because the 1 or 2 extra bodies and supply weren’t there for a possibility of help?

So she doesn’t have numbers on who’s doing what but somehow you do? Come on now.

What? Are you not enjoying your stay in passive play and AoE central? HoT was largely about implementing new systems sooo this is the direction that the game is heading. Check out one of the new passive traits "ambient damage", 1k damage to anyone in your general vicinity, 360 radius at 900 range (but it’s gonna actually be 1200), 1 second ICD.

FML, with all the time you’re putting into complaining about the crafting station removal you would have way pointed, crafted and been back at the end of your jumping puzzle already.

1. Yes I consider WvWvW to be competitive only because it’s as close to open world PvP as GW2 will ever get, the actual scoring mechanics are a joke.

2. Yes is wish it was competitive as I think it would increase the chances of me finding more like minded players and having more fun.

3. Lol no, WvWvW never be competitive. It will have to be gutted and rebuilt, players would cry about it and this is a 4 year old B2play/f2play game, not happening. Plus, Anet’s philosophy is all about creating an amorphous hand holding experience and by definition, competitive players ruin that. This is why guilds have been dropping like flies out of this game and mostly what’s left are pug blobs that shrink in big chunks on every wipe.

Bonus Question: No I don’t care who wins the week, I haven’t kept track of that in a very long time.

Gonna have to second what katniss said. 30 man guild group that’s boon surfing through pug blobs doesn’t make for an interesting watch, especially for such long stretches at a time.

I wasn’t aware that the crafting tables were some kind of buzz feature used to peddle WvWvW so I’m having a hard time buying the “it helps bring new people in” argument. It just seems disingenuous. WvWvW populations are being condensed, there being down time on the action doesn’t justify keeping crafting tables around to clog up the map with people who’re sitting around in safety during busy periods. It’s a competitive map with very limited slots, not an instanced PvE zone. Plus I remember a lot of complaining about raid afkers in VB scaling up the map for the people who were doing the meta and that was addressed for good reason. The ultra convenience for you shouldn’t stack up against a community of people who actually want to play on the map. Spend the silver, run for the 30 seconds, move passed it.

Yeah sure WvWvW needs better advertisement, but WvWvW also needs to not be a lame experience.

What footage will they use in a WvWvW trailer? People getting blobbed down in big fights or the bloated condi play in small fights? The skilled play that has all but disappeared because they’ve discouraged it? Are they going to show ACs exploding on walls and zergs rubbing up against doors? The skill lag in WvWvW’s trademark “epic fights”? The tanking fps? There will have to be a lot of staging and misrepresentation and most new players will soon find out that they’ve been duped.

Then there’s trying to get PvE only players to not be scared of PvP, lol better games have tried but good luck.

Ducked into a tower from a zerg and wham, what was left of my health just went poof~

This was re-broken with the last patch. I know it was a problem when HoT first launched and was fixed, now it’s back, yay!

zeight.5260:

Hi,

It has been a while since I did not play GW2 (more than 2 years) and my main focus back then was always WvW. I have been a big fan of WvW guild videos and since I did restart playing I couldn’t see any of those guilds that were around back then. In fact I could barely see any guilds at all (I am playing on a EU server, Seafarer’s Rest, and what we used to call the “raid time” seems completely empty of guilds).

I was wondering, where went all those guilds? I’m thinking of guilds like Iron, RG, VoTF, Vii, Team Aggression, War Legend, GD, Mya etc.?

• A poorly thought out stability change hit fight groups a blow and the that population never recovered. Ridiculous change to make with a 5 man AoE cap and an (at the time) unadjusted rally system. Meta went ranged heavy and bored people right out of the game.

• The traitline change. It is sold as “streamlining” when all it really did was help dumb down the combat by trait merging and making some of them baseline.

• Anet prioritized light PvE play (even inside WvWvW) to an almost comical degree and it threw the player type balance out of whack. Less quality fights for organized groups. Why bother theory craft, gear up or even log in? It made transferring around almost a necessity and even then, for many, it stopped being worth it.

• For all of its potential, WvWvW was clearly going nowhere and devs were out of touch

• The neglect put PPT and fight groups at odds with each other even more. PPTers wanted the map spots or at the very least, some help since stale/lopsided matches were driving away the casual players. And fights people resented the omni blob, sup AC peppered wasteland WvWvW was quickly becoming.

• Other seemingly fun games came out

• HoT launched and amplified ALL of the above and then some.

There are enough bad moves Anet has made concerning WvWvW that could fill a novel. And there may be some Frankenstein guilds with some of those players around but the guild diversity in WvWvW is gone. The game is aging so that window is closed and Anet practically chased them away.

Cerby.1069:

You’d think they would change the base mortar shot to shell so we don’t have to waste time toggling off of incendiary. Most of the time I forget its on incendiary since the picture is so kitten confusing.

Regardless, I’m still waiting for mortar burn to actually ‘DAMAGE’ people….kitten forbid some1 ever dies to a normal base damage mortar incendiary round. Why don’t they just remove incendiary shots completely? They serve no purpose. At least make the aoe like trebuchet cow shots…..these cow pie aren’t making anyone flinch in the zerg meta.

Because players have condi clears? Burn stacks in intensity and the AoE size absolutely should not be as big as the treb cow shots. Speaking of, cow shots aren’t meant for serious damage, poison is a mild degen, it’s ability to decrease healing is its real power and if you have the mastery, supply denial. Seige weapons should never be main damage because then people wouldn’t get off of them (Anet already came dangerously close with sup ACs) and there would be zero point in leveling a character, unlocking traits and gearing it.

Xenesis.6389:

gennyt.3428:

Strongly disagree here about DBL. Some people liked it no doubt, but let’s not pretend that populations didn’t take a nose dive. ABL actually revitalized participation.

Heh, and yet you pretend that guildhalls grind, guildhall wvw upgrades, guild cata nerf, auto upgrades, elite specalizations, didn’t happen when HoT came out at the same time as dbl. Or that the stabilization fix, server links (which is the biggest factor in seeing more players), didn’t happen when abl came back.

Dbl drove people away sure, but let’s not pretend it was the only thing that put wvw in a bad spot for 6 months, or that Abl was the lone savior of it.

Oh I definitely agree that it wasn’t the only thing that drove people out of WvWvW. When my guild still raided we’d run around on DBL looking for fights and other than stopping some PvD blobs that would immediately leave, the fights were few, roaming was even worse. One of our officers even tried organizing nights to get other guilds on the map, people just didn’t want to bother with it and it was just groundhog day around SMC. If anything DBL served as a crown to all that Anet got wrong with HoT WvWvW updates.

TheAndoman.9317:

The biggest problem with wvw right now is the return to the Alpine BLs. They’re too small and make blobbing almost a must.

From the release of HoT, until the return of ABLs, YB won almost every matchup. Not because of siege humping or all of the other things people are whining about, but because it took a heck of a lot longer for those 50 to 60 person blobs to respond and one-spam everything in their path.

If you want to make wvw more competitive, go back to DBLs, or put some more space in ABLs.

People want 15 to 30 person fights, not having their group of 20 constantly mowed down by 40 or 50 person blobs.

Hell, add in a diminished returns setup so that you get less rewards if there are more than 30 allies in a 2500 range, or something.

Kill the blobs and you’ll save WvW.

Strongly disagree here about DBL. Some people liked it no doubt, but let’s not pretend that populations didn’t take a nose dive. ABL actually revitalized participation. And wether the WvWvW community likes to admit or not, most players zerg when the option is available. This is exactly what Anet has been fostering over the years so no blobs, no WvWvW. We’d have private tags already. Plus if most players preferred 15 or even 20 man fights, the GvG scene would still be really active with much more guild diversity and unfortunately that’s not the case.

And I have to disagree with you again about why YB was winning. It always comes down to coverage. However, from playing with and against YB I saw the same things, among them, the preference for capping empty structures (which is basically what you described by the way and that’s something they did plenty on DBL thanks to the off putting terrain). Wasn’t competitive then either. People were just as annoyed and bored fighting siege and scattering pugs back then as you are getting run over by map blobs now. Sorry but I have to confiscate your rose tinted glasses.

Blackgate is in quite the peculiar position, it has pug blobs, raid guilds, havoc and roamers. This sounds like what a WvWvW server should be..until the rival servers have coverage gaps that start showing on the scoreboard and casual PPT players that make up the bulk of WvWvW forces give up and the server that has people showing up to fight is suddenly the problem, leaving a lot of salty people in its wake.

I think people are overestimating BG’s population, other than reset, it’s been weeks since all four maps have had queues. Boring BG to death won’t do much good, they too will play other games and the next update, they’ll be back out in force (especially now since alt accounts are common). Remember when YB was winning because BG couldn’t be bothered to counter the way they played? Nobody “wins” and it’s hardly a solution.

A major issue I think is the completely unnecessary AJing (on various scales). I roam on BG and TC and I’m not going to single out BG for it because other servers tend to do it when they can but when you’re the most populous server, how you play has more impact. TC and YB aren’t taking the week, so I have no solutions for the PPT minded nor do I care to find one at almost 4 years in. To the folks who like a good brawl, the obnoxious additions to the game have only exacerbated the “win at all costs” attitudes that always pop up in any activity with a scoreboard but players have enough agency to not make fights eye rolling kittenfests. Check the part you’ve played in it.

Im not sure if people will care about getting items in a game they’ve dropped, for example, no event will make me reinstall Archeage. Also I’m not excited about sitting through inflated queues that will take actual WvWvWrs with them when they disappear.

Vova.2640:

If you wanna duel there is a game mode for that called pvp. Or duel in OS.
Roamers is another thing, they do things that actually help the server so that is welcomed. But people that duel in maps like ebg are worst that afkers, because afkers at least get dced after a while.

Please stop with this. There aren’t enough duelers on any map to bite into your chances of winning blob wars.

rwolf.9571:

Jim Hunter.6821:

So a bunch of PvE players are going to be standing around a ruin without walls to hide behind? Sounds like free bags to me, this should be fun.

lol if it’s a group on your server doing this!

Am I gonna be pming some friendly neighborhood enemy roamers then? Probably.

Korgov.7645:

gennyt.3428:

Maybe or they could just show actual character names like a regular PvP game.

Generic anonymous names :

• Do not prevent salt whispers (we can see names in sPvP, the Esport mode of all things)
• Do not prevent players from being focused or otherwise hunted
• Stifle community building (enemy players are fellow gamers too)

There has to be a way to distinguish the 2 enemy servers. Character name alone would not do that.

Putting together server name, guild tag and character name would lead to some terribly long nameplates.

And stop making friends with the enemies. Red is dead.

See attached image
Also sorry I’ve moved around a lot and made a couple friends?

@Sir Mad

I’ve been playing PvP games for a while and I enjoy the salt whispers but I’m fairly certain I’m a weirdo. I’ve even made a couple fight buddies via whispering so I’d like to keep that. Then there is always the block and appear offline feature.

Maybe or they could just show actual character names like a regular PvP game.

Generic anonymous names :

• Do not prevent salt whispers (we can see names in sPvP, the Esport mode of all things)
• Do not prevent players from being focused or otherwise hunted
• Stifle community building (enemy players are fellow gamers too)

Xenesis.6389:

DeWolfe.2174:

Some text

Map still isn’t going away.

No but I can bet a lot of players are lol.

Dude come on. Paragraphs are a thing.

“If you play PvE, then it means you’re into WvWvW”

Winning the week still doesn’t matter but I’m looking forward to the ramped up north camp drama that this change might create.

Rashagar.8349:

gennyt.3428:

Rashagar.8349:

gennyt.3428:

~stuff

~stuff in reply

Quite a few of these guilds coordinate with other guilds and public raids so they seem to be socializing just fine. Even just by the fact that they’re playing as a guild. So labeling it “anti-social” simply because they don’t have an open door, all inclusive policy for their activities and comparing it to picking noses and shoving it up bums is quite the stretch lol. I’m not included in everything that happens in all public spaces at all times and that’s fine. Cultural differences indeed.

Not sure why you seem to be railing against me having a personal standard/expectation that some guilds don’t live up to. I didn’t mean to cause offence to you personally? If I did then I’m sorry but, to use your own words, “sometimes it’s not about you”. =P
If you want to start nit picking on semantics like you seem to be trying, then I’d point out that socialising and exhibiting antisocial behaviour aren’t mutually exclusive (see racist/sexist slurs as an example of antisocial behaviour and how it easily occurs while still being social with others). So your point isn’t really refuting anything I said. It’s possible your next post should be a bit more on topic for fear of derailing this thread though. Maybe list your own expectations for what wvw guilds need instead of, whatever this is you’re doing.
(Btw OP, sorry for my first post possibly misinterpreting what you were asking for in this thread, I thought you meant more general expectations of wvw guilds than what your 2nd post seems to indicate)

Racism and sexism aren’t comparable to being told that a guild raid is closed. You have a nice day ma’am or sir.
_________________
_________________

Back on topic.

Won’t bother to list the other types of guilds since I have no interest in them.

My expectations of a Fight Guild small or larger (15-20) scale:

• PvP focused
• Enjoys challenging fights
• Mature, easy going, helpful people
• Voice comms
• Theory crafting, proper working comp and sparring
• Selective and transparent recruiting so everyone is on the same page
• Cares about group and personal performance
• Runs untagged raids to avoid “easy peasy, spam 11111, why bother theory crafting, blob em’ down” fights

Rashagar.8349:

gennyt.3428:

~stuff

~stuff in reply

Quite a few of these guilds coordinate with other guilds and public raids so they seem to be socializing just fine. Even just by the fact that they’re playing as a guild. So labeling it “anti-social” simply because they don’t have an open door, all inclusive policy for their activities and comparing it to picking noses and shoving it up bums is quite the stretch lol. I’m not included in everything that happens in all public spaces at all times and that’s fine. Cultural differences indeed.

The only reason I can see for anyone to complain about closed guild raids is if there are no public tags and they can’t get their dose of large group play. To me, it seems just as odd as complaining about not being included in a family get together in a public park. It’s a sandboxy environment where people can make their own fun and I understand a lot of people deal with rejection poorly but sometimes it’s not about you. Some guilds want to see what they can do with what they have, that’s their idea of fun. I just don’t condone them being rude about it. Plus a lot of the hurt feelings would probably be avoided if people just talked with each other instead of insisting on treating every WvWvW group like an anonymous champ train. Tell the driver you’re interested in running with them and ask to join. Costs nothing to do that.

This is not a problem for me. I’m not there for the actual cap, I’m there for the fight.

Skins don’t impact performance so please don’t compare them to unique PvE gated stats and making them available via WvWvW does not equal doling them out. It’s good that it’s being corrected and I hope this isn’t repeated with another expansion because personally, the game lost some of its luster due to wanting to try new builds but being completely turned off by the required PvE. I log in for WvWvW. That’s it.

Sarika.3756:

Three or four players don’t define a server.

True but there’s a ton of fun to be had when stuff gets blown out of proportion because of boredom. Embrace the hilarity.

Ebg is blob city and most places worth being are easily hit by seige, head to the borderlands and you’ll likely get better small scale fights. That’s where I get mine!

That does indeed sound like a karma train. If that’s how you want to play, join a casual community guild, buy a commander tag and carry on the tradition of open raids instead of waiting for someone to provide it for you. People play for different reasons and Apline BL brought back some of those who prefer that their units be comprised of guildmates or at least people who are on the same page.

I roam with a couple friends as we hang on TS (or I wouldn’t be playing GW2 still) and I’m sure the gank squads running around and constantly 7v1ing people are in the same boat. Solo at this stage is something I find to be pretty boring especially with the power creep and the fact that I’d rather not play condi (main is Mesmer and the way it applies conditions is a snooze fest) or PvE for new gear sets for other characters.

For the most part I make it a point to sit out fights if it’ll get lopsided unless there’s a particular player or build present that needs proper burial. The mode allows players to use discretion, many choose the “red is dead” philosophy and wonder why others feel less inclined to even bother with a lose/lose situation.

Rashagar.8349:

gennyt.3428:

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten on you calling bullkitten. =P Not on the part about players leaving when they’re not having fun, but on the part that infers a causal relationship between a drop in wvw player population and the change to desert borderlands. It’s possible you’ve spent too long in an echo chamber hehe.

Edit I don’t mean to suggest that your personal experience is somehow wrong here, it’s just that it doesn’t coincide with my personal experience at all. Hope the tone of the above post doesn’t come across as really kittenish or anything.

No worries it made me chuckle. In my experience, DBLs were dead in T4 and they were largely dead in T1. Different strokes.

Teon.5168:

gennyt.3428:

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

Interesting. I’m on a server paired with TC(Tier 1), and the bls rarely have queues. Maybe one of the bls has one every once in awhile, usually pretty small. EB has more queues, just like when we had dbls……but even EB doesn’t have much in the way of a queue, except for reset night.

So I am not sure where you’re getting your “the abls have queues almost every night” stuff. But, maybe you’re on EU, or BG(NA)…..I wouldn’t know what it is like there.

I have a theory on why TC isn’t showing up. The current scoreboard has to be discouraging, especially with what TC is used to in T2. Which is a shame as I do get better fights out TC than I do YB.

Hesacon.8735:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of desert haters are a very very vocal minority of the overall population. The majority of the overall population will play whatever they’re given.

I’m going to have to call bullkitten. The DBLs were largely empty even in T1 unlike the ABL that have queues almost every night now. The “majority” of the overall population crammed themselves into EBG or quit when the DBLs were the only other option. My guild roster and friendslist reflected that too. Anet having your mentality is exactly the reason why WvWvW got to such a sorry state in the first place. Players can and will vote with their feet when they’re not having fun.

• 3 copies of DBL means I’m quitting GW2 for the duration at the very least, I’m not doing the whole EBG Groundhog’s Day thing again
• 1-2 copies of ABL means nastier queues unless Anet does some upgrading
• Not paying for yet another transfer into murky waters especially since the few friends left are barely hanging on to this game

Hesacon.8735:

How dare anet has people step out of their comfort zone for optional equipment that doesn’t provide any real advantage over other commonly available equipment.

There’s a notable difference between the core gear and the HoT goodies. Also I don’t see why level capped players should be forced to leave PvP maps and go back to smashing robots again for gear. That turns into a gear grind and Anet full well knows how unattractive many players find that.

“I swung a sword. Hey I swung it again! That’s great. We don’t want players to have to grind in GW2”.

“GW2 should be about having fun instead of preparing to have fun”.

Yeah and all that and so forth.

It’s fine and no it doesn’t.

I think the bulk of the hardcore, competitive WvWvW playerbase is already dead and gone so the window for GvG getting actual support is likely closed. It would have been nice to zerg bust while queued up for a GvG (guildmates on the bench could spectate or swap in). But nope! It’s either 5 man MOBA or zerg play built around the ultra casual.

Reh.5986:

joneirikb.7506:

Reh.5986:

This isn’t a skill thing either. Give me 40 pugs from my server against your 50 guild group and I’m fine. We probably won’t win most of the time but we will get some stomps and we won’t just watch our stuff being taken with no counter play.

The most common thing I see in those scenarios, is that the 40 pugs log out after 1-2 wipes, and you’re stuck with 50 vs 10.

That mentality might be the single largest problem with WvW.

40 pugs defending stuff with siege and buffs is dangerous. Enough to make a guild group work a little for the cap at least. 40 pugs vs guild group open field is something else entirely and just asking for morale problems lol

Those 40 pugs are only dangerous if the guild group or any group for that matter, bothers to stick around. Most probably won’t since defenders will likely bail on final breach.

The issue isn’t just one of numbers, cowardice also plagues WvWvW. Many simply do not have fighting spirit but want to feel like they’re winners. You see it on various scales.

• The 20 man guild group that refuses to engage a similar sized force unless another guild group is there to help
• The pugmander who drops open field siege against a smaller force
• The 5 people standing on a wall watching 2 roamers and only jump down in an attempt to overwhelm when 4 more allies show up
• The small squads that immediately dash away from a structure if even it’s only half their numbers that show up to resist
• Anybody running condi Chrono (lol sorry had to :P)

There’s no patch Anet can release that will fix that.

Supernatural Dawn.3194:

I think it is odd that people look for fights in WvW and those who don’t are told to go to sPvP or PVE. I’m interested in capturing objectives. If I can split my guild and hit two objectives and come out with one then that is a success. I think conquering the map is much more satisfying than some lagfest war. You prepare for war but with good tactics, should come the win.

I liked DBL the forts were tough to crack but the map was huge so feinting attacks was more effective in confusing the enemy.

You could have saved yourself the effort and just said that you like to PvD.

@ Swagger

A lot of the strategists and combat oriented players who would have otherwise played this game forever and learned it inside out have abandoned it because Anet was too busy pushing not just popcorn PvE but also esports. They were actually detached and delusional enough to believe competitive players would be satisfied with five man teams. Those people are not coming back and the trickle of new players can’t replace what WvWvW lost.

The very nature of pug players means that there will always be pug blobs even if it regresses back down to typemanding (which by the looks of it is very possible). I can’t say the same for any other groupings as the game direction will simply continue to squeeze them out.

Maybe in GW3. Hopefully that gets a fresh new, highly optimized engine. Blobbing isn’t bad necessarily but it shouldn’t provide a hard coded safety net from skilled players because of engine limitations. It may be difficult to accept but GW2 has an uber casual philosophy running throughout it, WvWvW included. The game will compensate for the player’s lack of effort or competence.

Examples are :

• The strong passive abilities, some of which are “Oh kitten”/“Save me” mechanics
• The spammy single button mega damage skills
• The abundance of AoEs while having a 5 man AoE cap – big groups need not worry
• Changes to make condition builds more appealing – just tank up and still melt foes quickly! You’re awesome!
• Run into a room, pull a lever, kill a bunch of people – Don’t even need Keanu Reeves
• Stand around on a wall or door pressing 3 keys for 5 – 45 minutes at a time all week and win!

Etc, etc.