Guild Wars 2

The few times I’ve seen an Anet tag in WvWvW, I don’t recall them not being in a blob.

Tspatula.9086:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

I’m just going to say i agree with a good chunk of what Fin is saying and I just want to leave this here and ask what was Arena Net thinking when they added this to WvW:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Centaur_Banner

Turtle banner is just as bad. It seems pretty obvious that the design team focused on style rather than function. And it’s overly focused on PPT as well, with NO REAL TESTING on any of it. Then we get all of our guild upgrades taken away, if that wasn’t a big middle finger to any WvW guild I don’t know what is. Then we get Grind Halls and have to pay to be competitive, cuz if you ain’t got yer Centaur banner….

Lol ~15 of us were fighting a 50 man PvDoor blob with a guild core that had Turtle banner. “Oh am I going to go flying off this cliff suddenly? Oh ok then”. It felt like an April Fools prank. Good luck to small/medium guilds getting that stuff too.

Jayne.9251:

Good job not engaging.

You gave me an anecdotal response, much like mine have been.

If you can’t understand that your viewpoint, and you claim to speak for many, is the flip side of the same coin.

It’s a glass house thing.

And by all means, push for your guild-focused gameplay. I’m pretty certain the end result.

How can I resist your comments?

You were speaking in absolutes when talking about why people still play WvWvW in order to build a doom and gloom argument that snowballed based on speculation and assumption, so let’s not cop out and call it “anecdotal” now simply because it was pointed out that your views aren’t universal. You did the same thing when speaking on defenders and even went as far as making assumptions about my current server’s defenders (like seriously, read the stuff you type). You’ve kept replying for some reason and still mangaged to not refute anything I said. We’re gonna have fun Jayne.

Jayne.9251:

Server communities is what has kept people playing a reward-less game for the past three years.

~snip~

P.S

Good job in tossing in a glass house proverb that doesn’t even apply.

Jayne.9251:

gennyt.3428:

How was I projecting exactly? Anyway, I have no desire to talk you out of your own self interest but rather to point out the weakness in your argument (a general point of view that seems to be popping up with the pro server crowd – so this isn’t even about you). The guild that and shows up to smash the blob your ACs and cannons can’t flush out is also on the defense team, regardless of their reason for performing . Our guild does it because fighting is fun yet the objective gets defended anyway, imagine that.

Once again, you’re making assumptions and running with them. Do defense and offense teams need to exist? Yes! Is keeping servers the linchpin it all depends on. Debatable at best. Looking at the state of the mode, I’m debating even how debatable that is.

You’re basically saying, keep a rigid system for the sake of the few dedicated defenders because according to you, they keep WvWvW turning (a mode that is dying). Totally not a sign that things need to change. Anyway I will not engage you further, carry on.

Well let’s see, you seem to think that defense will automatically happen. I guess it’ll be interesting to see that happen the way you’ve described. lol.

You are guild-centric and cannot understand the value of friendships beyond your guild. I get it. Really I do.

You go on the attack, then when your argument is debated/refuted, you “will not engage.”

That’s fine with me.

So I guess this is all I have to say, lol.

Oh Jayne. Let’s kick this off again, why not! I didn’t acknowledge your viewpoints? Your claim is that defense hangs on server pride and pointed out that’s not the case for everyone, I even gave you a very real example. That’s not me “going on the attack”, that’s me highlighting a flawed argument. You made assumptions about my server’s defense team while amazingly letting it fly right over your head that we are part of it.

Defense happens when there is a reason, whatever that reason may be and it can vary, it always has. But according to you, that reason is and should be server pride and I’m saying no, not really. Your counter was:

“Well let’s see, you seem to think that defense will automatically happen.”

When did I even imply that? That’s an actual question, like when I asked you to back up your claim that I was projecting my experience onto others. You didn’t address, much less refute anything. Your meme, though ironic, is not a substitute for an argument.

“You are guild-centric and cannot understand the value of friendships beyond your guild”.

Priortizing my guild doesn’t mean that only people on the roster matter. More assumptions from you Jayne, even about my gender lol. You’re fun. What else you got?

Jayne.9251:

gennyt.3428:

Jayne.9251:

Server communities is what has kept people playing a reward-less game for the past three years. It’s only with the advent of the new map and the pve mechanics on those maps that WvW has completely sputtered out.

The problem with megaserver is that there is no brand loyalty. The conclusion that new communities will emerge from it is specious if you look at how the mechanics will work.

First off, if you’re not in a big guild, you likely will have a randomized map. If you do defense at all for your server, you will know that the bulk of those defenders come from small or solo guilds.

Big guilds tend to want to run together, so they are not going to separate one or two members to scout and watch the maps. They just won’t.

And how many guilds do you know of that strictly do defense 24/7 in WvW? And how big are those guilds? Not likely very big.

And if those smaller solo/guilds are randomized into different matches, there’s no creation of team — the backbone of WvW will disappear simply because people won’t respond to scout call outs because they don’t know and trust that scout. Scouts will stop doing the most unrewarding task on map because their efforts are being ignored.

With no scouts, and no defenders, the map will consist of attack forces only. With nobody defending the keeps or towers, and only attack on the map, the map will ultimately morph into a pve-champ train map — all aboard the ktrain.

And I think people forget that without defense, you can’t really have fights. It’s a symbiotic relationship. You lose one, you lose the other.

For those of us who have played this game, and loved this game mode, for the past three years — and honestly with the sheer lack of rewards in WvW and STILL it drew a loyal following is indication of people’s passion for this game. And all of that relied on a sense of community.

It didn’t happen because of guilds and their alliances. It happened because of a common purpose/server pride/goals that brought all those different guilds and single players together.

Take away that, and you’ll see WvW turn into a giant pve ktrain. Which will empty the next time a big update/shiny is announced.

Please stop projecting your experience onto others. I do not play for server pride, I play for the fight and so do 99% of the people I play with regularly, we’ve had that conversation among ourselves and most of them aren’t even aware who wins the week so please refrain from speaking for everyone, or even most people for that matter. My “brand loyalty” is my guild.

Unless I missed something, Anet has yet to reveal how they’re going to go about revamping WvWvW yet people are yelling megaserver and EotM, panicking and running with arguments based on assumptions in attempts to rally support against a system they know kitten all about.

I’m a little amused at how people go on about “my community!” yet cling to something as shallow as a server name. As if its the only thing than can be a source of pride. Season stacking, “tier balancing”, players trickling up tiers, even whole guilds moving together etc to the point where it rearranges server rankings and people are still screaming server pride is the backbone of WvWvW . SMH.

P.S
@ OP
Bad idea to compare WvWvW to professional sports. I’ve never heard of a 24/7 10v20v60 game.

And likewise, don’t project your experience onto others. You already speak of your guild being your brand. That’s not the case for everyone, and most certainly not your server’s defense team.

I know you care only about the fights, but lose your defense and your map will become nothing but a ktrain, that will render it indistinguishable from a pve champ map. Both sides need to exist if this mode is to work.

Have a little foresight enough to see that your defensive team are the ones who care about community. I know it won’t matter to you, you’ve already stated your guild is all that matters.

But it does matter to others. And there’s a lot of us.

How was I projecting exactly? Anyway, I have no desire to talk you out of your own self interest but rather to point out the weakness in your argument (a general point of view that seems to be popping up with the pro server crowd – so this isn’t even about you). The guild that and shows up to smash the blob your ACs and cannons can’t flush out is also on the defense team, regardless of their reason for performing . Our guild does it because fighting is fun yet the objective gets defended anyway, imagine that.

Once again, you’re making assumptions and running with them. Do defense and offense teams need to exist? Yes! Is keeping servers the linchpin it all depends on. Debatable at best. Looking at the state of the mode, I’m debating even how debatable that is.

You’re basically saying, keep a rigid system for the sake of the few dedicated defenders because according to you, they keep WvWvW turning (a mode that is dying). Totally not a sign that things need to change. Anyway I will not engage you further, carry on.

Jayne.9251:

Server communities is what has kept people playing a reward-less game for the past three years. It’s only with the advent of the new map and the pve mechanics on those maps that WvW has completely sputtered out.

The problem with megaserver is that there is no brand loyalty. The conclusion that new communities will emerge from it is specious if you look at how the mechanics will work.

First off, if you’re not in a big guild, you likely will have a randomized map. If you do defense at all for your server, you will know that the bulk of those defenders come from small or solo guilds.

Big guilds tend to want to run together, so they are not going to separate one or two members to scout and watch the maps. They just won’t.

And how many guilds do you know of that strictly do defense 24/7 in WvW? And how big are those guilds? Not likely very big.

And if those smaller solo/guilds are randomized into different matches, there’s no creation of team — the backbone of WvW will disappear simply because people won’t respond to scout call outs because they don’t know and trust that scout. Scouts will stop doing the most unrewarding task on map because their efforts are being ignored.

With no scouts, and no defenders, the map will consist of attack forces only. With nobody defending the keeps or towers, and only attack on the map, the map will ultimately morph into a pve-champ train map — all aboard the ktrain.

And I think people forget that without defense, you can’t really have fights. It’s a symbiotic relationship. You lose one, you lose the other.

For those of us who have played this game, and loved this game mode, for the past three years — and honestly with the sheer lack of rewards in WvW and STILL it drew a loyal following is indication of people’s passion for this game. And all of that relied on a sense of community.

It didn’t happen because of guilds and their alliances. It happened because of a common purpose/server pride/goals that brought all those different guilds and single players together.

Take away that, and you’ll see WvW turn into a giant pve ktrain. Which will empty the next time a big update/shiny is announced.

Please stop projecting your experience onto others. I do not play for server pride, I play for the fight and so do 99% of the people I play with regularly, we’ve had that conversation among ourselves and most of them aren’t even aware who wins the week so please refrain from speaking for everyone, or even most people for that matter. My “brand loyalty” is my guild.

Unless I missed something, Anet has yet to reveal how they’re going to go about revamping WvWvW yet people are yelling megaserver and EotM, panicking and running with arguments based on assumptions in attempts to rally support against a system they know kitten all about.

I’m a little amused at how people go on about “my community!” yet cling to something as shallow as a server name. As if its the only thing than can be a source of pride. Season stacking, “tier balancing”, players trickling up tiers, even whole guilds moving together etc to the point where it rearranges server rankings and people are still screaming server pride is the backbone of WvWvW . SMH.

P.S
@ OP
Bad idea to compare WvWvW to professional sports. I’ve never heard of a 24/7 10v20v60 game.

Since Anet screwed CA mechanics instead of finding a happy medium, it got a little trickier to manage so it won’t save a poorly organized group but when a Druid in on point there is a notable difference. I run Druid in our guild raids and alongside a couple other specs, we can easily keep our group up against 2x and sometimes 3x our numbers even without stab. We run 15 on average.

P.S Don’t expect to get any bags though lol (after each raid, my guildmates send me some)

Odokuro.5049:

Yeah it speaks volumes about people just wanting a simple map, with simple mechanics, that they can simply go around in a loop, flipping sentries/camps/towers/keeps for money/exp and karma.

Yeah it speaks volumes about roaming people just wanting a simple map, with simple mechanics, that they can simply go around in a loop, fighting other players for fun.

@ OP

Really? Your GW2 life story? Here’s the reality. You are playing with people right now who are not on their original servers, I’d say most people who even still bother with WvWvW at this point have transferred at least once to play with their friends or find more player activity (funny how that measures up so poorly next to server pride) so this mantra won’t make that any less true. Delusion and quite possibly, hypocrisy. And the worst thing Anet can do is actually entertain it. We don’t even know what the developer plans are and people are losing their kitten, it’s embarrassing. If WvWvW becomes balanced, fun, rewarding and attractive to players who’ll form new connections and keep old ones at the cost of losing a handful of unreasonable, unadaptable players, I say bring it on.

Wouldn’t bother with Worker War. Other specs have more utility now. Plus with the sheer amount of damage and CC rolling around these days, people get double downed before you can get into position to banner. It’s likely even if your team is tight and people call when and where they might go down.

Jayne.9251:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Jayne.9251:

I wonder how many people have just thrown their hands up and already quit because of this?

Nah, ppl just quit because things got stale, or they don’t want to spend time, to adapt to the new mechanics..

Weird. Prior to HoT the maps were quite busy.

This was not my experience. It was less dead but far from busy.

• Three copies of the new map is too much for the WvWvW population now and there still isn’t a real reason to play WvWvW so that HoT population boom wasn’t gonna happen. Anet can’t even force PvErs into WvWvW because of how laughably broken it is, they’ll just irritate their cash cows.

• Designers went crazy with the platforms and twisting walkways so navigating all that and dealing with pathing and line of sight issues on this giant map gets old fast.

• WvWvW PvDoor problems + auto upgrades = gg (and now guild catas went belly up)

• Insular objectives (take a northern tower? Who cares, no need to fight over it, just back cap)

• Massively gated guild upgrades behind a pay wall then a grind wall, rip small man havoc (in a mode with a dwindling playerbase no less lol)

• Oasis event lags out the map

• Cheesy and annoying PvE elements (Getting blown off narrow, high walkways! Fun!)

• Rewards are still terrible and until population imbalances are addressed, they’ll have to stay that way plus they’ve gutted dungeon runs (the thing some WvWvWers could stomach enough to get some quick dough)

To top it all off, the game has only become more zerg friendly, the rally system, hard rez in combat, AoE cap were always in favor of big groups and now the stab changes and the insane amount of CC added since HoT. If blobs are having a tough time on the new map then people need to stop auto running and eating chips.

No, factions won’t make me quit if implemented properly. The people I like playing games with are in my guild. The other people I like are in my friends-list and stay in touch regardless of where we end up. I can’t muster enough care for server pride as it’s just a database and players have been transferring/quitting enough for patriotism to be simply delusional.

Adreyah.9157:

Yes population is an issue and changes need to be made to better balance the servers, but there still needs to be a reason to try to win.

Yes it has a scoreboard and its an ongoing competition rather than a game of monopoly with your family so it needs to incentivize people to gain points, that’s pretty much stating the obvious.

Magnuzone.8395:

One thing a can agree on is that something more interesting should be gained from winning, or at least from the badges. Maybe some expensive and hard to obtain items to aim at. Armor sets, rare runes, I don’t know.

But to just sit on thousands of badges and hundreds of world ability points, that’s comepletely unusable, feels like a waste.

At least earlier we had a few (for most ppl) almost unobtainable titles, and one or two things to spend wvw points on, but now….nothing.

We should also have more seasons. And we should have gotten that from the beginning. In the NHL you don’t see the top 3 or 4 teams meeting only eachother. And thats how top tier is. You fight the same servers over and over. We dont need wierd alliances and non server identity wvw.

Are impossible titles practical additions to any game? Was season stacking and the almost palpable plummet in player activity afterwards a good thing? Do professional sports teams play 24/7 in 10 vs 50 vs 80 games? Did Anet layout their actual plans for the WvWvW revamp so you could actually pick apart the problems it might pose?

No? Okay.

Shinks.3860:

Offair.2563:

newbihack.7180:

Am afraid that EOTM will be dead soon. I have been in 6 EOTM yesterday and it was just baghunting. Within 30min our zerg went from 50 to 15. After one hour of baghunting, the tag left so anybody else.
Most people like to do the objectives of the map and when they can’t do it, they just leave. Anet did a great job on the new BL, but some people wont understand that baghunting is what killing WvW. Anyhow am only doing EOTM for dailies, since this baghunting is getting excessive.

Wait a minute, people are killing other people, in a pvp orientated map? How rude..

I get the point, I see where it comes from…What you fail to realise is what he’s getting at.

Eotm pre/early HoT was a levelling up / karma train. Many people used it as a goto for those reasons. Whilst it was in this ‘form’ groups did fight one another, random pug zergs against one another, normally the largest one would win, the commander would then look to only engage in favourable conditions. When fights occurred it felt relatively fair and balanced, a mix of all levels/geared players. So there was a mix between xp, k-train and PvP. This suited different players at different times. Personally I enjoyed the group fighting and the wexp (so i can improve my siege masteries).

My current experience of EotM, as a mid geared lvl80… Many commanders try to achieve what i said above, each team having a reasonable zerg. There are fights but objectives swap hands regularly (with the exception of keeps).

Then comes a guild group, 10-20 geared 80’s all from the same guild so i assume voice comms. Some lead their teams zerg around, others just chase enemy zergs. The majority of the time this guild group masacres the other teams zergs (no suprise organised lvl80’s, geared with voice comms beating a pug group with levellers and k-train’ers). The guild group chases the other pugs around the map collecting bags, people get fed up of being rolled over, players and commanders leave….

The guild group no longer has people to farm so leave…the team they were on now faceroll the entire map due to the enemy having no players/comms (I always look to see if my team has a commander when i join eotm, if there is non i normally leave). In other MMO’s I would relate it to low level ganking, they give themselves every advantage and actively look to destroy the enemies gameplay. When the enemy leaves out of frustration the group loses interest and leaves the map, completely ruining the map for the rest of the players (even the side they were on now face no enemy).

So yes wvw/eotm should be about PvP, yes GW2 is an mmo so people should play in groups/with friends. But the way guild groups actively chase enemy groups round the map solely to wipe them out (ignores all objectives) leaves a very sour taste and can leave an entire eotm reset ruined.

Rant over

You do realize that pug zergs with text commanders and uplevels get shredded by guild groups on classic WvWvW maps too right? You’ll probably get laughed off the map if you complained about that there. Guild raids are a WvWvW staple, they “ruin” EotM mist if you’re using it for easy farming, which in that case there will be no pity party.

Rewarding winning in any meaningful way without addressing population disparities will result in a kitten show. WvWvW at it’s core and especially in it’s current state simply isn’t worthy. Just look what happened with seasons/tournaments.

People cared to organize in the early days because lots of other people were playing, so walking yaks resulted in fights, keeping a camp from flipping just to get a waypoint in Hills/Bay resulted in fights. All without any shiny rewards. Without a lot of people playing, PPT related tasks show themselves to be miserably tedious.

The problems that drove people away were not addressed so expecting old players to reinvest and new players not to run for the hills is a bit naive. GW2’s B2P nature might be attractive to players but it also means that Anet can put in less effort into keeping MMO players. Hence the new expansion has thin content that is gated and stretched . It also allows Anet to be especially hush hush with their road map because there are no subscriptions to be cancelled (As a WvWvW player, would you be paying a sub for GW2 even as far back as 2 years ago?).

I believe this is why they’re are insisting on hitching their cart to the MOBA wagon because the game’s marketing will take on a life of it’s own due to players being competitive and invested and could prove to be more effective than yet another company plugging a product. More potential people to make impulsive gem shop purchases. I also have a suspicion that if the eSports attempt really takes off, PvEers could find themselves getting less love as their content requires bigger maps and more of them, more activities and goals to chase etc. Though, I’m curious as to how thorough of an overhaul is in the works for WvWvW but I would be lying if I said I have my hopes up.

Jayne.9251:

I think the latest rumour of change that the majority vocally doesn’t want was the final straw sadly.

“Majority”? Really now.

newbihack.7180:

Am afraid that EOTM will be dead soon. I have been in 6 EOTM yesterday and it was just baghunting. Within 30min our zerg went from 50 to 15. After one hour of baghunting, the tag left so anybody else.
Most people like to do the objectives of the map and when they can’t do it, they just leave. Anet did a great job on the new BL, but some people wont understand that baghunting is what killing WvW. Anyhow am only doing EOTM for dailies, since this baghunting is getting excessive.

Haha Is this a troll post? But just in case you’re being serious, in order to click and enter EotM, you have to open the “WvWvW” window so just think about that next time you complain about group PvP. :P

I heard you liked jungle excursions.

I think the guild upgrade changes may have turned some people off of the game. HoT seems to have brought a lot of disappointment to an already bored WvWvW playerbase. I know it’s made me look at this company differently as they have had the nerve to take away what players have earned and put them behind a pay wall and then a grind wall and act like its new content. Small guilds are fresh out of luck if they want to run a +5 supply ever again.

Sich.7103:

This map is not made to have 1 team cover all 1 map. Focus on your side of the map (around the keep with WP for you). Then you will have less travel time because you have 2 WP for 1/3 of the map…
Don’t play the new map the same way that the old… That is the main issue for most of people…

And you know this how? Anyway, In the face of dwindling populations and some servers only having a small force, you’re seriously going to spout a line like “focus on your side of the map”? Okay!

kroter.1326:

I have even simpler idea – cut out every wvw-specific reward out of EOTM. Because it’s stealing players in huge numbers.

Nah, anybody who actually prefers to play whatever is it that goes in EotM should stay there.

Siege disablers hitting mortars on walls from below lol. Meanwhile you have to tip toe on the lip of the wall with a giant bulls-eye on your kitten just to toss one down. Having waypoints make roaming easier, but it’s hardly worth this mess.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Anyone else see tumbleweed and hear crickets?

I can’t hear the crickets over the tumbleweed stampede.

Masori.3528:

Phantom.8130:

There’s problems on so many levels, that even fixing one level completely won’t have much impact. Everything from the very foundation all the way up needs redesigned and completely reset. And that even includes the mindsets of a loooooot of players. Unfortunately, that’s just plain not possible. Anet isn’t going to fix the foundation as well as all of the details built on top of said foundation, and the playerbase isn’t going to go do some studying of actual strategy. So….. we end up with the constant karma train. Because that’s what it’s set up for, and that’s all a lot of people know.

+1

The blobmentality is what broke WvW.

What broke WvWvW is WvWvW, it simply is not sustainable when it needs large scale participation but is so incredibly prone to imbalance and thus cannot even be rewarded so players will evaporate rapidly. People blob because “safety in numbers” and “taking the easy road”, that’s just human nature. If someone is making games and isn’t taking this into account then they should probably consider a career switch.

Like it or not, GW2’s combat is made with small teams in mind not massive battles, in PvE blob fights like temples and bosses, its not so apparent because the encounters are simplistic and NPCs don’t get annoyed at being on the wrong end of game mechanics and log off. AoE caps and rally system issues aside, actual large fights lag the ever living kitten out of the servers, which is hilarious considering the mode. WvWvW doesn’t have another three years of “soon” left in it and its not because of blobbers.

If you jump into WvWvW alone with a PvE build then you’re probably going to get ripped to shreds, even experienced and properly built players have to deal with getting ganked/zerged down. Doing WvWvW dailies without seeing red names means you’re playing a dead zone, at that point there is no difference between than and 100% safe zone PvE dailies.

They are gutting Druid, it’s become a PITA maintaining AF in our WvWvW raids and roaming.

Straegen.2938:

Not that I was a fan of Hammer Trains but that game play was much more fun than watching 2+ big groups circle each other dodging AoE/CC for a ridiculous amount of time. In the current meta, it gets stupid when there is a choke point.

AoE/CC in this game is just too plentiful on virtually every level of game play so much so that most single target abilities are not worth taking even in small scale fights.

^Yep! They (Anet) need to find a happy medium with the way stability works for WvWvW. Being able to strip stability stacks is fine but with no diminishing returns on CC, the bigger group has another advantage in addition to raw damage, support and a rally system that works in their favor. The bigger the fight, the more obvious this becomes. It doesn’t take skill to huddle up with forty plus people and throw an AoE CC in the general direction of red nameplates moving near you.

fireflyry.7023:

Come on guys.

The expansion hasn’t even been out a month. With Raids dropping, by all account the biggest selling point for many, and so much new content to tweak, patch and fix. Not to mention how obvious this whole expac was rushed out and yet still went live with little issue…and…

Your QQing over the price of chairs….CHAIRS?

This community is laughable at times, you don’t even give Anet a fair chance before griping over semantics..

You’re probably not going to want to hear this but you could have chosen to ignore this thread because guild decorations don’t matter to you, instead you chose to attack people who are in the same boat as you, fellow players. It’s counterproductive at the very least. Your ingame concerns are not the same and that is fine, I have my own issues with the guild hall. Calling it “griping over semantics” is …wrong on a few different levels.

Please look into this. When spectating, all the names in the arena are red and there is no ability to click on individual players to see what buffs/stances/etc they’re using. The mess of red names makes watching a bit confusing and shoutcasting makes this limitation more prominent. I think a better approach would be a free camera option that is confined to the boundaries of the arena and allows the viewing of X or Y team (so only one team has red names) but is available only to those in the spectator area.

Then there is the issue of guildmate nameplates when I’m inside Gilded Hollow. The golden background sitting behind gold nameplates and the barrage of spell effects and rapid movement make it difficult for me to track guildmates sometimes. I’ve had Asuras get lost in it. I don’t know if this is an issue for others or how addressing this could be approached. Perhaps its a bit too late to say that the bright gold background for this arena would have functionality issues.

Jayne.9251:

gennyt.3428:

Or they could individually align their small/personal bank guild with all these other people they claim to enjoy playing with and still do the exact same things instead of jumping in and getting a random assignment and being upset about that? Large team conquest being fitted around people who want to play alone seems counterproductive.

Those lone players tend to be your server’s backbone. And they’re not playing alone, they’re working as part of a team, without the guild tag. Most who do defense know this. It isn’t the guilds defending — and the guilds that do are very rare.

…

Of all the servers I’ve played on, I’ve seen very few tagless players in WvWvW, friend or foe, much less actual scouts/defenders. Those guys were not popping +5 supply buffs out of thin air.

Every blob busting guild I know of, will come defend if there is a fight to be had (including the one I’m in) and then there are the PPT guilds who do build defensive siege and do their thing. Solo PPT players are part of a team, sure, but saying the lone wolf types who aren’t in any guild whatsoever are somehow the backbone of a server is a bit of a stretch, if not a bit disingenuous.

Jayne.9251:

Straegen.2938:

Jayne.9251:

It would mean that new people coming into the map are left out. It would force people to join guilds if you want to compete. Some of us enjoy our solo gigs and are still helpful to a map.

In this system, players that are guild-less would be slotted into a matchup that could most use their support. Unaligned guilds and players would be the mortar in the foundation of balanced play.

lol. worse.

So the people who are the backbone of the server, the ones that usually keep up the scouting and sieging (and in the past upgrades) would arbitrarily be placed into a map “where needed”?

I’m guessing you don’t do a lot of defense. There’s a network of solo or small guild players that basically shore up defense for a server … at least that’s how it’s been for most servers I’ve been on in NA and EU.

You’re basically saying their job is to fill in the holes.

That’s not a good thing.

That means that the defense team that’s used to playing together and working together as a team would be split up wherever they “fit”.

Yes ofc they could make a guild, but most people who play solo don’t want to be in a guild in the first place.

Your idea would completely eliminate your defense team.

Or they could individually align their small/personal bank guild with all these other people they claim to enjoy playing with and still do the exact same things instead of jumping in and getting a random assignment and being upset about that? Large team conquest being fitted around people who want to play alone seems counterproductive.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Chiccotot.7296:

Something easily obtained in the previous version is now going to be a grindwars2 to get to.

It’s worse than that. Something that you already unlocked is now inaccessible unless you buy HoT; and even if you do, you have to unlock it again.

Lol was just talking about this last night in TS. Taking away features and hiding them behind not one but two walls. Terrific! But then again this is a WvWvW guild issue and who cares about those weirdos. :P

keadlaw.6350:

I really feel that their design philosophy of not sharing anything with us until its so far along in the development doesn’t work for wvw. Those of you that think you were actually beta testing on those beta weekends are delusional. They were promotional weekends to build hype. Sure maybe some minor things were able to be tweaked from feedback, but it was way too late in the development process to make any meaningful changes for HoT.

^ This guy gets it.

Tspatula.9086:

BrickFurious.7169:

What more PvE? I see this complaint thrown around so much….{snip}

Look an honest examination of the new borderlands reveals a sort of obsessive fixation with Z-axis tech that Anet brought out with the HoT maguma maps. It’s fantastic in the PvE maps, and gliding is genius, but it’s simply out of hand in the new borderlands map. That, and clearly aesthetics trumped all other design considerations. It’s in the guild halls too, massive areas, but the Arena, the really functional part of guild halls is too small by at least 25%, but a 100% increase is really what’s needed. There is no focus on the core gameplay of WvW, the new maps are at least 50% gimmick (and I think I am being generous here)
Play devil’s advocate and support Anet all you want, that’s fine, but EotM, and now this new borderlands clearly show Anet’s tin ear to what the WvW community need and their lack of understanding how WvW works for serious guilds. I have no doubt that they will continue to “tell” us how WvW should be played, regardless of the obvious fact that NONE of the devs are serious WvW players and none of them are willing to admit that they don’t understand the game mode very well.

Agreed. I really think the new BL is a really pretty PvE map that got stuffed into WvWvW. And not because of the NPCs, I could care less if there are some dinosaurs hanging around a watering hole (though I find it funny how they managed to make the cannon effect so damaging yet so visually underwhelming), I’m talking about the actual design of the map.

With the new stability, line of sight and pathing, fall damage, the rally system, the AoE cap and many WvWvWers’ tendency to blob (and leave when they can’t) you’d think there wouldn’t be that many narrow passages, high ledges and platforming. Getting blown or punted off walkways, having rock walls sprout from the ground, gambling and losing at the “I don’t have the buff, will this fall kill me?” game becomes a bit tedious. Especially when the annoyance starts to overshadow the value of your goal. WvWvWers have had to put with a lot and so people avoiding this map and opting for packing EB is quite telling. At least in EBG with the new sentry reveal, if I see dots on the map and head in their direction I’d find people, on the new BLs, the impeding terrain often just turns it into to chasing ghosts.

coglin.1867:

gennyt.3428:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Thank you for posting, I’m going to try it out.

Do you have to take literally every opportunity, even when given something that might help an experience, to take a jab, though? It isn’t like they put this in the PvE forums and say “Check it PvEers, new client!”. It’s in the forum you would expect it.

There are stickies about this in both of the PvE forums so the jab was well deserved in this case lol.

It was on FB, twitter, dulfy, and the Anet blog all within minutes of one another as well.

I do not use any of those sites. So your point is that the information was everywhere but in the official site’s sub forum of one of their “main” game modes? Got it! /facepalm

Cogbyrn.7283:

Thank you for posting, I’m going to try it out.

Do you have to take literally every opportunity, even when given something that might help an experience, to take a jab, though? It isn’t like they put this in the PvE forums and say “Check it PvEers, new client!”. It’s in the forum you would expect it.

There are stickies about this in both of the PvE forums so the jab was well deserved in this case lol.

When this thread gets locked, please take this to the cancer forums please. Thanks <3

morrolan.9608:

Vegetation.6419:

I don’t understand why most of you guys feel like you deserve to get your elite spec right away?

Strawman, no-one is saying we should get it immediately without effort.

At least someone else noticed it.

RlyOsim.2497:

FYI for people that are interested:

AFAIK the exploit was people using WvW tournament tickets to buy Wexp consumables (thimbles, kegs, that sort of thing) and speed leveling the hero points.

So basically using the currency as intended? Heaven help me, my patience for Anet and their gold sinks and ridiculous gating is worn paper thin.

Oh? New weapon + a handful of new skills = elite thus should have astronomical costs? As pretty as the maps are, the expansion largely comes down to hopping around on platforms with pretty much the same skills and weapons you had three years ago to stack up the XP in specific zones so you can keep hopping around on platforms in said zones, hoping and praying that you can interact with something that may or may not be out of reach. It’s great, provided that you like hopping around on platforms and hoping and praying. For me that’s just stretching content with time gated features.

My problem isn’t that it takes effort, my problem is it takes all the leisure out of exploring these new maps because I’d like to use the new specialization in my preferred game mode, which is WvWvW. The maps are beautiful but hard to navigate so finding the hero points can be quite difficult even with the masteries. I don’t feel rewarded when I get them, I just feel relieved that it’s over. Not a good thing. There is no such gating of the new weapon and skills in sPvP because they know that would just annoy their target eSports crowd. It’s too little to gate as much as they did (I mean seriously, a weapon and a handful of skills).

Paulytnz.7619:

Ripr.8073:

Paulytnz.7619:

I knew it would be like this from the first beta I got to try. I am really surprised this is new to people. Really, people never thought that you would have to unlock this, to go there and then unlock that to go a little further?

Not everyone played the beta.

Well maybe you should have? That was the point of them, for us to see what the content was like and if not wanted to comment on it so that it could be tailored more to what we want. Really I just don’t get some people….

Yes because everybody pre-orders their games. I mean seriously? lol

Andred.1087:

What on Earth are you on about? You haven’t even presented any form of argument.

Are you suggesting the expansion is a failure because you have to play it for more than a couple weeks to get something you want from it? How dare ANet give you a reason to keep coming back!

They’re not joking around when they say “it’s not the destination, it’s the journey.” If you can’t appreciate that philosophy, then you’re on a completely different page than ANet is. Think about it… why are you even playing the game? The stuff you get doesn’t matter at all. The entire objective is diversion, and that’s what you have been given.

I hate to break it to you but there are other modes in GW2 other than PvE. I want to play the new specializations in WvWvW and run around and fight players as I’ve been doing for years, you can have the needlessly convoluted jungle excursions all to yourself.

Welp as someone who just wants to use the new spec in WvWvW, it got annoying running around trying to find an objective on a twisting and constantly coiling map only to find out that I can’t even interact with it anyway. Protecting these soldiers/rally points etc got boring fast because you’re just freaking grinding mobs.

P.S seems like thin content scattered around in big complicated maps

Tyaen.5148:

coglin.1867:

They are not improving the game mode?

Adding new maps isn’t an improvement?

New map mechanics are not an improvement?

New weapons and ES will not improve the game mode for you?

The new maps alone are the largest possible improvement to WvW. Who are you trying to lie to when you imply they are not making improvements?

Correct. Those are not improvements to the game mode.

Shhh he doesn’t get that addition != improvement.

Straegen.2938:

This chart is really showing how awful it is to be the third place server in a tier. The only exception is NSP which is performing very well.

We’re fighting DB and HoDB, the smaller fights are better but (and I’m not trash talking) on a large scale their group coordination could use some work.

I think both the past and future lists are underwhelming. Siege skins and enabling salvage on badge gear. Meh, doesn’t seem very AAA title like to have that as some kind of big deal.

Some of these changes are bug fixes (map glitches) and minor changes (commander tag colors and champ bags), btw I totally love not having valid paths to target >.>. Some are general changes to GW2 and trickled into WvWvW just like dire stats, perplexity and trapper runes, stability changes birthing pirate shipping and other results of design choices geared at the sPvP and PvE crowd . Not to mention the ever present non-communication. Yeah WvWvW has seen some good changes but the end result is that the mode is in the toilet and that says a lot.

Tin foil hat time:

Seems like every time a big WvWvW update is coming, some strange and ludicrous implementation is announced (like commander tag colors being sold separately) and the forums protest. Then Anet makes the minor changes that address the outrage and the board is lit with joy and chants of “They listened! They know we’re here! Things are going to change!”, but the major issues remain and a few months later the complaints starting rolling in again. Paltry offerings yielding praise because the mode is making it’s final swirls before disappearing down the drain.