Guild Wars 2

warbignime.4610:

kdaddy.5431:

Yasi.9065:

Here’s what I had to live with over the last few days:

-Thieves not decapping but rather rallybotting in mid fight like 10+ times in a match
-Warrior running straight to gates in legacy at beginning and opening them…. both of course… then starts rageing because he gets killed doing it… and runs back to do it again, pronouncing proudly that he carries because he keeps 2+ “busy” (for about 30 seconds until EP runs out and he bleeds out)
-Druid standing on hill to the sides of mid legacy, using staff1, staff2… all the time (probably thought he did good dmg there)
-Mesmers without portals
-Necro dieing to cleric tempest in under 2 minutes (I didnt even try killing him…. he just died)
-Bad builds like FT scrapper (scrapper! not old school non-hot account)
-Mindless mid running and insta dieing – too often to actually count professions… but necros seem to be those with most problems with tunnelvision
-AFK

Thats only the worst. I got those players at one point or another on my team. Sometimes only one… sometimes three. Only one every three games they are on enemy team.

Now tell me how to carry such bad decisions… and no 1v4 is actually not a solution, do the math please.

We have all been there, ill share 2 pics from today. Ive gotten to the point were the players i play against now are not losing quickly so it staking more time. I now can now no longer carry but depend on my team mates to be equally good. I will either get stuck in this division or slowly creep to the next.

Its a little odd to me that people believe they have a right to move up divisions. If people want to argue fun of the MM system, you have me beat. Yet many people post about how they cant carry scrubs or the people they play with are so bad. In my pics i am guessing these are players who could win there 1 vs 1 and sustain in lower divisions but unfortunately cant anymore vs better players.

Yeah sure because you are playing RIFLE!!? warrior.

You are exactly my point, i play with rifle on my warrior. You think it makes me not as good which brings up the other point. How well do you know your classes? For me alot of the classes have become very similar but there are small differences. You can take advantage of that and if you know how to play.

if you have a support class it can be rather easy to keep him alive. For instance on my ele and a ranger who cam to help we kept the lord and 1 cater alive 4 came in to kill lord.

We played it safe with the caps so when they got to 350 they rushed and i was fortunate since a ranger with heals came back to help. 1 person eventually came back to help and we killed them 4 and won 500-351.

But it is possible to keep the lord alive with support characters back there to keep him alive.

Yasi.9065:

Here’s what I had to live with over the last few days:

-Thieves not decapping but rather rallybotting in mid fight like 10+ times in a match
-Warrior running straight to gates in legacy at beginning and opening them…. both of course… then starts rageing because he gets killed doing it… and runs back to do it again, pronouncing proudly that he carries because he keeps 2+ “busy” (for about 30 seconds until EP runs out and he bleeds out)
-Druid standing on hill to the sides of mid legacy, using staff1, staff2… all the time (probably thought he did good dmg there)
-Mesmers without portals
-Necro dieing to cleric tempest in under 2 minutes (I didnt even try killing him…. he just died)
-Bad builds like FT scrapper (scrapper! not old school non-hot account)
-Mindless mid running and insta dieing – too often to actually count professions… but necros seem to be those with most problems with tunnelvision
-AFK

Thats only the worst. I got those players at one point or another on my team. Sometimes only one… sometimes three. Only one every three games they are on enemy team.

Now tell me how to carry such bad decisions… and no 1v4 is actually not a solution, do the math please.

We have all been there, ill share 2 pics from today. Ive gotten to the point were the players i play against now are not losing quickly so it staking more time. I now can now no longer carry but depend on my team mates to be equally good. I will either get stuck in this division or slowly creep to the next.

Its a little odd to me that people believe they have a right to move up divisions. If people want to argue fun of the MM system, you have me beat. Yet many people post about how they cant carry scrubs or the people they play with are so bad. In my pics i am guessing these are players who could win there 1 vs 1 and sustain in lower divisions but unfortunately cant anymore vs better players.

Sorel.4870:

kdaddy.5431:

All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

Then why do you think you deserve to consistently win in soloq? You have to carry to have more than 50% win ratio in soloq.

Helseth is arrogant, but the fact is that almost every game he loses, after he has said the mandatory “my team mates were trash”, he talks about everything he could have done better to win the game. And that’s probably one of the reason he’s a top player (not because he’s a pro: he’s on a sabbatical). Instead of always complaining about your team mates, try to get better, and to carry better: build momentum (play a mobile build), never expect your team mates to win their 1v1s, make sure every second of your time you make an amazing play, and you’ll see that not only your win ratio will improve, but you’ll also have more fun playing.

If you are asking me personally its because i play warrior most of the time and my fights are quick.

It takes about 15-20 sec to see who wins the fight vs me. So far ive been very good at winning my fights vs all classes. I have good mobility (not great) also allows me to join a bigger fight and help win that and contest the point i originally won. In amber and emerald i was able to win alot of 1 vs 2. This is my most recent pic of my last 10 games.

Yasi.9065:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

Do you even listen to yourself?
You smurfed, abused bunkermeta and played premade vs solos and won because of that. So you basically cheated. Played against players that are NOT near your ladder position but FAR below (smurfing), you played as a kittening team against solos and you abused kittened up balancing.
And thats what you decide made you good and those in emerald average.

Newsflash, the only thing that made you… is pathetic.

Whate are you talking about? We didnt smurf anything smart guy. The people i played with all made it to ruby. No one was on other freshly made accounts, we played it as a actual team with people ranging with various skill levels.

We played ESL teams and played alot of premades. This season we have played 3 times and have won 2 and we were only a 3 man group facing full premades. All of us playing non meta builds and twice we faced a 2 rev- 1 ele, 1 engy, 1 necro premades.

Do i hear myself, yeah i do. I do think the Match making is good this season? Not really but it was better then season 1 match making. It wasnt fair for people like myself to have to face full premade ESL teams while i was still in Amber. The first patch of the PvP season many of the top players like helseth, were streaming him solo queing and facing a full car crash team while he was in Amber. Was it fair that some of the crappiest players in the game had higher division ranks the best best players in the game? And those players are grinding solo que?

I just want to say that many of the threads are cry threads. People talking about people going far is the reason they lost, no its not. People saying we have a thief, warrior or they have to many necros, no its not. Its probably you and you want to blame something.

Is MM broken? No it not, the best players should be playing the best players but when you have a league system thats based off of moving up divisions for rewards, there are going to be problems.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

kdaddy.5431:

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

I myself carried quite a few ppl on my bunker ele. I still do. However, there are limits. You immediately see the difference when those you play with need babysitting or they don’t. If you can’t tell that difference you might not be as good as you think you are.

A few things,

1- i dont hold myself as high of a level player as ESL Pros or people who say they can carry. All i can simply do is make sure i win my 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 and run builds with good speed to make sure i can get to another point as quick as possible to win that fight.

2- There is no such thing as a ele carry build. You are a support shout player or you are running some hybrid build which means you better be great at +1 or winning 1 vs 1 quickly otherwise you are the down fall to your own team.

twhite.9310:

kdaddy.5431:

Oh man! the guy who acted like he actually cared about the game in interviews is leaving. Also if someone could please explain to me why they are on reddit more then there own forum?

Probably because it’s easy to reply to one comment multiple times without having to scroll through 20 pages of things.

ok i can understand that but couldnt Anet just change there own forum page? Plus i believe that was a post and so they couldnt just copy and paste into there own forum?

I dont know, i just feel when there is something they want to comment on the devs and other Anet employees are right there on this forum page. Yet when its stuff they dont want to answer you can hear the crickets. For instance someone asking for Eir Stegalkin as a stronghold hero, boom 2-3 comments. People asking for there MMR, leaderboards, build diversity, etc etc.

It would be nice to at least see there thoughts on such subjects. I mean forum moderates have even said it be nice to hear something from them when they give weekly reports.

PadreNike.1803:

@Sirbomerdier, apparently he did play on a viewer’s account already:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48jbi9/the_secret_behind_pvp_matchmaking_has_been/d0kyog4

There was a reason why people qued with lesser ranked people last season. Last season when i was in ruby and we had 2 people in our guild in emerald. 2-3 of us were literally winning 1 vs 2 all game. In the bunker meta no less, we literally had about 5 games were we sent 2 far, 2 mid, 1 home and simply camped the respawn and won 500-50.

My guild mates got to sapphire and ruby and the competition got better, then they changed it. At that point i was in legendary 1-2 and my friends who were in sapphire felt the same pain as we were facing Team PZ, Radioactive, GASM among other teams with full legendary players.

People in this game say it takes no skill, spam spam, blah blah blah but the evidence is everywhere. When i can 1 vs 2 the so called average players and then i face ESL level players and lose 99% of the time in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. There is a serious skill gap between the bottom-average-good-great players. But many do not want to accept that.

You should be fine, most people are out of amber. Should be probably heading into sapphire so if your coming back you should have some good games.

Oh man! the guy who acted like he actually cared about the game in interviews is leaving. Also if someone could please explain to me why they are on reddit more then there own forum?

I completely agree with almost everything he said. I lost it when someone posted a thread called “always the far pushers” because it was full of people who blame people in the game, blame anet for MM and got mad because i called them a new player.

Too many people in this game need there hand held and honestly cant admit what there own level is.

Is MM perfect, NO. Is it all MM fault, NO. I posted in that thread about how me and 2 guild members dont play meta builds and how we went up against full premades with full meta team comps. I explained that we won by creating the mismatches we wanted and always try to win the even fights and carry people who will probably lose there 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.

Helseth has the best stream simply because i enjoy all the trash talking he does. The only videos ive seen of him have come from people posting it on the forum, so ive seen maybe 3-4 of his videos. I find many of the people in this game come to the forums and simply just troll it or are oblivious to the fact that they are not as good as they think they are.

Crimson Shi.5047:

kdaddy.5431:

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

this is true but let me ask the question.

Since all the meta builds are builds coming from the Pro players. If anyone watched 55 Rank Dragons vs the Abjured you would of noticed a few things like they were almost running the exact same comp/ builds/ and trying to get the same isolation’s vs a certain player.

What was a huge difference at the start of match? Rank 55 played for 3 points at start and the Abjured played for 2. I myself play for 3 points a majority of the time but i too play smart and to the numbers.

But heres the question, the community for the most part copies the ESL players. And for 3 years all the Pro teams pushed for 2 cap points. And in the Pro league finals Rank 55 pushed for all 3 cap point.

Why is this thread crying about pushing far when the best players and teams in this game all do it?

Why are you assuming everyone who spvps currently are at the skill level of those teams? They can copy it doesn’t mean they’ll pull it off, let alone pull it off well.

Im not asking them to play as well as them. But if you are to copy and try to imitate the best players in the game, why are you not following the same 3 point strategy?

Yasi.9065:

kdaddy.5431:

you must be a new player

A few things

1- By pushing far you make it a numbers game
By playing 3 points you can control the rotating game. This allows people to make decisions in game that make a difference.
(…)

This of course means that player that went far actually knows how to get that point and when to just leave it be. Otherwise you dont control and instead play permanently 4v5.

kdaddy.5431:

2- Team comp
If you push mid fights and lose maybe your team isnt built for team fights. Acting like 1 person went far doesnt take away from what you do. If you go 1-3-1 and the other team goes 1-4-0 that means the person at home who capped will be going mid soon. This is how the good teams, good pugs, good players in the game carry bad players. It can be impossible to carry in team fights since there is so much weapon and utility skills effects. But if i run far and win the 1 vs 1 and some one from mid comes far and i beat him and the person i killed at far comes off of respawn and beat him. It means at some point if you are even decent you should be able to help a team mate win a point.
(…)

Your team looses teamfights -> usually means you wont get 1 coming to defend his close, its 2-3 and the only thing you were able to do is maybe cap far for 5 seconds, or even only keep point decapped. Also, the chances of someone coming close to defend from mid that is squishy as kitten and you can just kill him fast enough for actual close point defender to not make it to close in time… its unrealistic in current meta. So you saying, that you basically go far, kill Nr.1, kill Nr.2 and then kill Nr. 1 again… its a thing that only happens against really really really bad players.
Lets be more realistic here and have engi or druid coming from mid to kill you / keep you from capping. You wont be able to kill those fast enough for you to not end up in a 2v1 situation. Current meta doesnt support that theory at all…. it hasnt worked that way since thief and mesmer nerf.

kdaddy.5431:

3-Do you know what you are good at
People all the time peel out from fights too early or too late. If you go mid and see there is 4 and there is only 3 of you there. Can you sustain a point? Do you support your team mates with your skills? If you dont what are you doing in team fights?

People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good. The play only 2 points is a good strategy when you have 2 points to defend.

This thread is about players pushing far too early in the game, or when the time isnt right for it (respawning enemies, mid and close getting attacked and someone standing on far capping it instead of just decapping etc.)
It is about players that constantly make bad judgement calls because “pro’s do it also” or because they simply dont know how to properly rotate. Players that cant read a teamroster and realize what impact a mesmer has on rotations.
Players that constantly ignore party window and minimap and just tunnelvision their thing, no matter what.

There are situations I push far from close. If my team managed to already be down to 1-2 players trying to contest mid. If my team looks fine on mid (full health, nobody got downed yet), but fight still ongoing and not too many enemies on respawn timer. But those situations are very rare.
Most of the time its 4-1, with either winning teamfight on mid and then pull back to defend close/mid against respawners… or loosing teamfight and on to sides / bosses to split enemy team up.
Once in a while I get a team comp that forces me to play sides from the beginning… but then its announced in mapchat (pewpew times without having reflects on legacy/commune map). But thats only a thing if team comp just isnt suited for terrain on mid.
Once in a while I get a really good thief on my team that manages to get far and then moves on to farm respawners… but havent seen more than one of these in like forever.

Mind you… this is about the first few minutes into a match.

So you are arguing the basis because its not realistic in your opinion and because its people not rotating when they are suppose too.

1- you dont know because you dont know the skill levels of the players.

2- you cant decide or say someone rotations are bad when you dont know what they are thinking or what they see especially when you are solo queing.

So my and 2 guild members decided to some guild matches. we faced 2 full premades who ran all meta comp. 2 Revs, 1 ele, 1 scrapper and 1 necro. I ran my warrior, 1 ran a druid and my other guild member ran hammer rev. We beat both of those teams and the game we lost with these non-meta builds was 496-501 to another full pre-made.

You can not legitimately defend this thread because there are to many variables. Can I and my guild members run these builds and play styles vs ESL Pro League teams, No. But this thread isnt talking Pro level players. Its talking pushing far and you and nobody in the game, NOBODY can say pushing far is a bad choice when solo queing.

Crimson Shi.5047:

@Kdaddy- All the stuff you just posted is hearsay, you don’t really know what kind of group you’re getting unless you are in a premade. You can call it numbers game but what it really is, is taking a gamble. Is doing 1-4-0 a good plan? Sure. Can you do a 1-3-1 ?Sure, and so and so fourth. You can do it doesn’t mean it’s optimal. It’s as much player skill, class comp, communication, and map choice that determines ALL these factors and then some. My PREFERENCE is 1-4-0 but I can adapt if they have a plan for it. All in all people are people, and will do what they do regardless of what anyone says/suggests.

this is true but let me ask the question.

Since all the meta builds are builds coming from the Pro players. If anyone watched 55 Rank Dragons vs the Abjured you would of noticed a few things like they were almost running the exact same comp/ builds/ and trying to get the same isolation’s vs a certain player.

What was a huge difference at the start of match? Rank 55 played for 3 points at start and the Abjured played for 2. I myself play for 3 points a majority of the time but i too play smart and to the numbers.

But heres the question, the community for the most part copies the ESL players. And for 3 years all the Pro teams pushed for 2 cap points. And in the Pro league finals Rank 55 pushed for all 3 cap point.

Why is this thread crying about pushing far when the best players and teams in this game all do it?

Lets get this straight,

I took the offensive of people who push far. Every situation is different and every match is different. This thread is a joke, the people who comment GG and other stuff when the other team gets the first 2 cap points are poor players.

I had a guild member say to me and another person from our guild GG when the score was 100-25. We started laughing at him. We ended up losing 496-501 when we had a 3 cap and someone simply died.

You talk about someone going far as if its a bad thing and im sorry i completely disagree. I mostly solo que and i either grab home or run far. You guys actually trying to make a point about people pushing far for the reasons you lose.

People come on the forum to complain all the time but it truly comes down to can you win your fights. Can you win teams fights in 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 situations? Can you win 1 vs 1 situations?

You guys are literally trying to talk tactics and say its bad because its a 4 vs 5, ummmmm learn to rotate, peel out, set up a point attack. If all 5 of the enemy is at a point that means 2 other points are empty and once again. If you spread people out it becomes about winning your fights.

As someone who rushes far over 50% of the time i have shown multiple times on this forum the wins/ losses of playing in ranked. When i run far or someone else does and the other players im playing with are good. And the other team is average and play this home and mid tactic, they tend to lose big.

Which is why people are crying all over the forum, that legendary players are winning 500-15 solo queing. You can pretend to act like its the people running far but if you are getting triple capped then you too have made a mistake. Once again ill take the person pushing far side since this thread isnt a real thing and simply put its peoples opinion on strategy when you are not right though you are acting like it.

you must be a new player

A few things

1- By pushing far you make it a numbers game
By playing 3 points you can control the rotating game. This allows people to make decisions in game that make a difference.

2- Team comp
If you push mid fights and lose maybe your team isnt built for team fights. Acting like 1 person went far doesnt take away from what you do. If you go 1-3-1 and the other team goes 1-4-0 that means the person at home who capped will be going mid soon. This is how the good teams, good pugs, good players in the game carry bad players. It can be impossible to carry in team fights since there is so much weapon and utility skills effects. But if i run far and win the 1 vs 1 and some one from mid comes far and i beat him and the person i killed at far comes off of respawn and beat him. It means at some point if you are even decent you should be able to help a team mate win a point.

3-Do you know what you are good at
People all the time peel out from fights too early or too late. If you go mid and see there is 4 and there is only 3 of you there. Can you sustain a point? Do you support your team mates with your skills? If you dont what are you doing in team fights?

People who dont play a far point tend to be players who are not very good. The play only 2 points is a good strategy when you have 2 points to defend.

If you dont want to play another character you dont get the back piece. I dont think it very hard to. Like i want to win the power ball but i dont want to be charged money to play. everything goes hand in hand.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Stop bringing warr/thief/mesmer into this meta… they don’t work. You have to work twice as hard to make them work. I get it, I do, thief, and warrior were/are my two favorite classes for pvp. I want ANET to make them viable again but at this point in time. NO they just don’t work. It’s not the classes fault, it’s just how their designed right now. No shame in switching something more viable but seriously. These current classes do NOT work. I can’t count right now the number of times I have lost a game cause of those particularly classes. I know it sounds elitist to type this, and yes I sound salty, cause I’m at the final tier, and was so close only to lose it because someone believed the hype that “Yes THEY are viable” No they are nottttttt. Had a rifle warr just run around dying off point, while the reapers/druids/dh saw him and were like hahaha lunch…. game before that had a thief who was dying at far everytime.. and then ran around the map doing idk what but he was NOT contributing in any way, despite him TRYING I mean he WAS trying I’ll give him that but man… they knew/know how to conter a daredevil… they do NOT work the enemy team has to be complete imbeciles for them to work.

/rant

you are incorrect

Alekt.5803:

kdaddy.5431:

Fivedawgs.4267:

To play the devil advocate, I heard pre hot ele were jack of all trades, they could dps, heal, condi removal you name it.

Yes they did and d/d ele was great with damage and condi dmg. The nerfed d/d and burn dmg so if you took them after the nerfs back to when the Abjured won vs ORNG in the WTS it very easily could of been a win for ORNG.

Also it had a much smaller radius to help allies with. So a ele had to run into a fight near allies to be the jack of all trades. IMO they just made it alot easier to everything from a support perspective for eles. Dumbed it down to a basic form.

From what I gather, it could be more balanced if the radius of such support were adjusted depending on the weapon on main hand. 240 radius works on dagger, but does not on staff… et cetera.

there is alot of things they could do to core classes to make them better. But for anyone who doesnt want to run shouts ele you will have to wait probably for GW3.

Tim.6450:

Saiyan.1704:

Tim.6450:

I’m still waiting for necro zero cast teleports, necro blocks, necro evades , necro invulnerabilities, elementalists boon corruption, necro aura sharing,… .

Necro has three health bars and king of boon removals. Should be glad he’s not like, nor plays like, every other class.

I just want to undermine his notion that everyone has everything. Also necro does not have three health bars. One simple reason it does not fill itself by normal means (like using healing skills or being out of combat) , there are many other but I’m tooo tired to list them all.

You went small details. Like ohh necro has 0 cast time teleport but they do have 0 cast time in reaper form. Honestly you could name something and i could send it right back with something necro has to counter it.

Also if you didnt notice necro is a 1 vs 1 with the new spec like warrior and thief. Thief got a extra dodge and some abilities on dodge. Warrior got condi dmg bonuses and quicker F1 attacks that can be reapplied. Then necro got chill does dmg and gain might when attacking someone with chill.

Do you not see what they did? They made it so necro can give itself all the boons on its own. A class that lacked some boon sustaining ability now has it all. Thief who was a +1 or decapping class now was suppose to be able to fight 1 vs 1. Warrior now gets the huge burst dmg and huge condi dmg that it didnt have before.

A earlier comment about eles being the jack of all trades was correct but now every class is a jack of all trades class. Your trying to say small differences in a class like teleports and blocks make a huge deal. Which its funny since they gave necro a speed skill in reaper form 2 and as if having 2 life bars with the spectral armor skill isnt huge. A skill that hads lifeforce, is a stun break and gives protection.

When i clearly noted a difference in skills before with shouts with 3 classes before HOT. Which goes back to my point that almost all the classes are basically the same. And you are trying to say where is my blocks …………………………………..

Fivedawgs.4267:

To play the devil advocate, I heard pre hot ele were jack of all trades, they could dps, heal, condi removal you name it.

Yes they did and d/d ele was great with damage and condi dmg. The nerfed d/d and burn dmg so if you took them after the nerfs back to when the Abjured won vs ORNG in the WTS it very easily could of been a win for ORNG.

Also it had a much smaller radius to help allies with. So a ele had to run into a fight near allies to be the jack of all trades. IMO they just made it alot easier to everything from a support perspective for eles. Dumbed it down to a basic form.

My last match on warrior we had 2 warriors (including msyelf) a ranger, a rev and a engy. The other team had 3 necros, 1 ele and 1 rev. We won 500-220 and the other team went on to bash there own team mates and call the ******* reapers.

Im sorry but 90% of the players in the game are not any good and simply copy and paste meta builds. If you are actually good at the game your not looking at classes and saying GG before it starts.

I think why HOT doesnt feel right is because everyones skills do the same thing. Hammer 4 rev, F3 guardian, staff ranger. Its gotten to the point that classes are no longer unique in game play.

For instance pre HOT warriors shouts were offensive by inflicting fear, vulnerability and granting team mates might and crit damage. Guardians were defensive giving aegis, protection, and condi removal. Rangers were based on pets which was fine but they just were not good enough. This was really a chance to make rangers great at 1 vs 1 but just a missed opportunity.

Now everyone skills give everything. Ele shouts give auras, protection, condi removal, vigor, and regen just on traits. Rangers glyphs can heal, remove condi, and do damage or stun a enemy.

What made GW2 so cool was the differences in each class and how unique the skills were. Warriors shield and guardians shield were different, ele dagger and thief dagger was different. Everything had its own play style.

To me thats what changed the game. HOT gave everything to every class. Its why i feel anet cant balance the game. You no longer need to pick a class based on abilities or effectiveness against another class but to simply pick the OP class in the meta because there is no counter class.

JETWING.2759:

kdaddy.5431:

JETWING.2759:

A – Necro (op condi spam and boon corrupt)
B – DH (lol trap spam and that lb…)
C – Crono/Rev/Temp (too many all in one skills)
D – Scraper/Druid (its OK!)
E – War/Thief (hum… For now, OK!)

i dont say this often but if thats your list you need to L2P

OK! I’ll l2p and go full condi necro…

thats fine,

i was actually referring to your DH being the 2nd stronget class in the game. Then saying druid and scrapper were not as good or not better then mesmer which is a utility class at this point.

Also a ele is a support class atm and cant survive 1 vs 1 with alot of these classes 1 vs 1. So you have druid/scrapper (scrapper being a must on most teams) below mesmers who are a option choice and ele which is just support.

nearlight.3064:

Now that the hype from the expansion has come and gone, I think we should look at what remains after the settling.

I stopped playing GW2 partway through season 1 at the end of sapphire because the bunker meta just wasn’t fun. I played a few games after the balance patch of last month, and a few games at the start of season 2, but I just can’t get invested in it the same way I did previously. The game just lacks tactical depth beyond that of rotations.

The only major strategical decision you have to make in GW2’s conquest style pvp is rotations, ie. deciding which node/objective to go to at which time, to make sure you have the right people in the right fights, and thats it. When you delve into the actual combat of a team fight, the tactical depth falls apart. In larger fights, the action devolves into skill spam, and sustain spam. Copious AoE, cleaving melee weapons, and frequent gap closers on many classes lessens the importance of tactical positioning. Generally speaking whichever side has more people in a fight will win, unless the side with fewer members has much stronger builds compared to the other side, or are simply able to coordinate focus fire better than the other team, which isn’t tactically satisfying.

What do you do when you’re in a fight? You try to win control of the point, often by killing any enemy whoever is on the point. This is fine, but what do you do tactically to win that fight? You spam. You spam damage until its enough to outspam the enemy’s sustain. You spam as much sustain as you can when your enemy is spamming their damage at you. Trying to interrupt key skills/heals/rezzes/stomps is about as tactically deep as it gets. The fact that most classes lack much resource management aside from cooldowns or class mechanics turns the game into an exercise in juggling those cooldowns.

I’m glad that new amulets like mender’s and sage’s let me run that squishy healer ele or druid role I always wanted to play, but given the things I’ve said about AoE and gap closers, you’ll often have to put yourself in harm’s way to heal someone with your shorter radius on your healing skills. It only manages to work because those healer builds are able to spam sustain and back off when needed. But I can tell you right now that if the bunker amulets were still in the game, there’d be no point to this since the game design blatantly favors spamming skills that keep yourself alive on a point for as long as possible. An interesting case for a different sort of healing is ventari rev, but it just doesn’t work because self-less healers can’t spam sustain on themselves, so they’ll just die, even though the whole concept of ventari rev was to reward tactical positioning and skill-based support. It just doesn’t work, and I believe that highlights the problems of GW2.

And finally the balance. Most of my problems with this game aren’t an issue of balance, but rather the fact that the game design of GW2 (role dilution and no trinity and general fast pace) has always made the game into a race of sustain vs. dps. Even though most of the bunkers are no more, it still feels the same as juggling cooldowns to survive/disengage or hold a point as long as possible instead of tactically outwitting the enemy team. You just adapt your rotations and thats it. But I will say that some things, like the survival-damage ratio of scrappers is blatantly broken, and you’d be gimping yourself by not bringing one on a team.

So this is how I feel. It just doesn’t really feel right to play this game anymore for more than the occasional romp, just because its so unsatisfying.

I agree with some of it but disagree with alot of it too. Before the HOT expansion you were talking alot of things. For instance out rotating a bunker guardian and moving players into positions take a mid point but not really to take it but to actually set up a far push. When your on a actual team you discuss rotations in game alot and which targets you want to isolate.

Also you talk as if individual skills are not important. if you go back and watch but people got into 1 vs 1 and someone lost. Tarcis easily won a 1 vs 1 on rev vs another rev during the season as well as others.

I agree there as been some dissolving of the classes since every class seems to be able to do the exact same thing but you generalized it. Any game you play is about spamming. Any sport you play is about basic things. In basketball the team who puts the ball into the basket better wins. Which is what you did and im sorry but if it was that easy you wouldnt see the same 20 players for NA and EU on top all the time.

There are tactics, there is skill but maybe just not the type you are looking for. Actually since the HOT release im kind of feeling the same way.

Rome.3192:

kdaddy.5431:

If i was to make a tier list it would go

A- necro- rev- scrapper

B-Druid-Ele

C-DH

D- Mesmer

E-Warrior

F- Thief

What kind of list is that?

A – Scrapper, Herald
B – Reaper, Tempest, Chronomancer, Druid
C – Daredevil
D – Dragonhunter
F – Berserker

New ESL meta will be: Scrapper, Reaper, Tempest, Herald, Chronomancer.

You cant have reaper in B since its still the best 1 vs 1 class in the game. In the Pro league finals you saw the necros winning the 1 vs 1 vs the revs and scrappers.

Also D/D will struggle to me in the team setting. In a 2 vs 2 with a ele dd vs a ele DH the ele DH should win. If you say the thiefs job is to +1 the question becomes how good the other teams rev is because a D/D cant escape a rev. Which is why i believe you sill see more guardians then thieves in the future.

Also mesmer can not be that high. You saw Team PZ try to put it into 1 vs 1 but it simply cant win fights at the speed it needs too in team fights. If it cant win fights quickly enough it doesnt have the sustain in 2 vs 2 to win those. To me it means that this class is back to support which teams would have to choose which one to have.

I personally hope anet doesnt go with the 1 class max because it just shows there ability to balance the game. If teams want to run 2-2-1 classes they should be able too. Teams running full 5 d/d eles showed how broke the class with that weapon set was. Them saying you can only play 1 each is them basically throwing the white flag.

If thats the future of this game then PvP will be some side portion of the game like it was in GW1.

JETWING.2759:

A – Necro (op condi spam and boon corrupt)
B – DH (lol trap spam and that lb…)
C – Crono/Rev/Temp (too many all in one skills)
D – Scraper/Druid (its OK!)
E – War/Thief (hum… For now, OK!)

i dont say this often but if thats your list you need to L2P

AivenPrimus.9184:

What’s with this ‘’Reve top tier, blah blah’’ thing?

Am I playing different game?

These few days of playtime, I have at best seen 2-4 Reves in Rankeds,
I have hardly ever had a problem to play against them,

Even when I myself play Reve, I never believed that they are ’’That’’ good as other people seem to say…

I would advise you to watch the ESL players or the Pro league.

Just some quick things,

Glint form is the already better version of warrior. Its heal skill is the signet and the stance put into one. Can apply massive amounts of boons to team mates and best yet it can switch to another champion.

Rev might not be the best at 1 vs 1 or the best in team fights like a scrapper or necro on a point or a ele in team fights but they can do everything exceptionally well. We are talking boon shares, team support, mobility and the ability to burst down targets that might be trying to get away.

Bad players are bad, average players are average, and great players help define meta because they are the best mechanically and also come up with the best builds. If you make it to legendary status and run into some elite level revs maybe it will change your mind. Or simply put you disagree with me and say i am incorrect, if you want a fully explained detail of rev i can give you one but to me if you can see a good one up close. You might be wowed by its strength.

choovanski.5462:

kdaddy.5431:

If i was to make a tier list it would go

A- necro- rev- scrapper

B-Druid-Ele

C-DH

D- Mesmer

E-Warrior

F- Thief

And unlike pre HOT there are no counter builds. If the players are of equal skill, IMO this is how the fights should go down.

uhhh really.. thief bellow warrior?

regardless, all classes need to be brought to DH level to keep the game sane. I would say theif was there already, with only mes and warrior below. theif is very strong if you’re not bad, and DH is strong vs bads. both feel similarly strong (don’t bring up the fact medi guard counters theif. this has been around for years and does not mean it’s a better class. just that the 1v1 is mechanically squed).

druid and ele are strong, but not problematically so. not like top three. this is mostly due to holding support roles, as opposed to God mode bruiser.

I try to look at it from a all perspectives so player from emerald to legendary.

Bad thieves are worse then bad warriors. Also there are some great thieves out there but against a equally skilled warrior it might come to build set up. They also give the no team help with current builds. Warrior has stances though so he can actually survive longer in team fights and fight on the point. This forces timing to be much more crucial for thieves with the lack of good range weapons currently int he game. What ends up happening to me is when a thief pops in on a fight people will immediately switch to them as the target. No once has mentioned this but all the classes got faster. Rangers with smokescale pet, staff 3, revs transportation skill with a staff 5 etc etc. Thieves no struggle to run away.

Obviously my opinion

If i was to make a tier list it would go

A- necro- rev- scrapper

B-Druid-Ele

C-DH

D- Mesmer

E-Warrior

F- Thief

And unlike pre HOT there are no counter builds. If the players are of equal skill, IMO this is how the fights should go down.

congrats,

lol i totally thought i was gone have it done by this week but got stuck. Dang i was gonna be first.

tichorum.2415:

kdaddy.5431:

Question,

We use to see the PvP AG tournaments at the top of the PvP page. Is there a reason GW2 took it down?

I feel Anet should show the GW2 tournaments on the actual GW2 forum page, just seems odd to me.

Unfortunately, I don’t know why the official tournaments post was taken down.

I’m not sure if it really grabbed any players/viewership anyhow.

I agree but GW2 should have the PvP info/games/ ability to watch games on the actual GW2 forum. The AG games tend to be more exciting anyways and i didnt even know they were still running.

As someone who usually doesnt play meta builds i am finding a huge struggle and my reason why.

1) Lack of range weapons
Currently 6 of the 9 classes can heal at a insane rate, have reflects, blocks and it makes feel impossible to take people down with range weapons. I was playing rifle warrior, hammer rev and some longbow ranger and im like nope doesnt work. Im doing alot of damage when the attacks are going threw but there are long periods especially with shout eles. The lack of of fighting types, before HOT power rangers could be useful, s/f eles could be useful, rifle warriors were more useful then even with the buffs then they are now.

2) The healing
As a warrior and ive had some friends who main thief who feel we have to do everything right to win a 1 vs 1 vs 5-6 of the classes in the HOT era. As a warrior, if i miss 1 burst attack in the beserker mode i might as well stop against a good player and just die because i have literally gotten a engy, ranger, guardian, rev, necro, ele, to 10% health only to have them get back to 50-100% health near instantly. 1 time vs a necro i took him to 50 % health and he had full ds. I went threw that to take him to 10% health and he had full ds again.

3) Build Diversity
Im sitting here looking for the other builds. Ive tried cantrip ele, conjure ele, heck even glyphs. Nope i have to play shout to be on a even level. I get that some classes are a few more viable options to choose with 1-2 utility skills and 1 trait line. As this season has gone on ive seen a huge gap distance between players who are using the same builds. When both teams have the same comp and they do they both do a 1-3-1 split and the one team wins all 3 points, you have to create build diversity.

Obviously its too late to fix many of these things since you have given the classes there weapons and skill sets for these weapons. While others complain about MM when there is still over a month of quarter 2 of season 1. I on the other hand would like to address the stale PvP scene. Running into the exact same type of character just a different skill level. I am asking to seriously look some of the the issues with the classes and address the lack of viability of certain weapons and skills on alot of these classes.

Question,

We use to see the PvP AG tournaments at the top of the PvP page. Is there a reason GW2 took it down?

I feel Anet should show the GW2 tournaments on the actual GW2 forum page, just seems odd to me.

Daniel.9240:

I think it is Doc Misfits’ fault…

I remember that people were using low tier toons for easy wins last season… this is the form to correct it…

No its not,

Anet took the quickest way to change a bad set up and they turned it into another bad set up.

You have to admit, these PvP leagues have felt like test seasons. Anet not seeing the problem with MM before. With high level players facing full ESL premades while in amber. To now with players getting squashed game after game until the league sorts itself out.

Then the team ques……………… after 4 years of PvP meetings in the Anet board room. You would think they would have had a better set up then this.

i got the same thing once, it is incredibly annoying that anet doesnt get back to you. I once saw a player afk 3 games in a row. Once on mine and 2 times against and i reported him each time.

Guess who i saw the next day and i decided it doesnt really matter anymore.

Zenral.3958:

kdaddy.5431:

im 11-0 on my warrior, the statements about warrior being terrible is false. We are now average.

High MMR, you’re getting carried.

I will not deny or confirm this but it maybe true, kind of, mostly.

im 11-0 on my warrior, the statements about warrior being terrible is false. We are now average.

Im sorry for your losses but its not the MM that is broken. Its the set up of a league system.

I would say 60% of the people in the game know what level they are and are realistic. Instead of placing these people in diamond/ruby/sapphire rank and just letting them play towards a season reward. They are asking people to grind threw the league system.

I saw alot of people make it to legendary last season who probably shouldnt have and i truly question whether or not i deserved to there as well. I find it odd that so many people come to the forum screaming about MM when you need to ask the question.

Am i winning my 1 vs 1? Am i winning my 2 vs 2? Do i have enough mobility or range attacks to give support and different styles of winning fights?

Im finding more people come to the forum to complain just to complain. If you want to complain about legit problems/bugs/ actual problems. Im all for it, kick and scream to anet to fix there game. On the other hand when people just cry to cry i say you are not helping anything and simply put you lost 10 in a row because the people you are facing are better then you currently in your division.

Alekt.5803:

kdaddy.5431:

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Oh lol. That was a long time ago. They butchered that build with the Icebow nerf, and collateral nerfs of d/d cantrip eles. Well, that was the last variation of the build, dps settler conjure staff. Good times.

My current Conjure Tempest is definitively not viable anymore with all the nerfs it got (52-70% protection uptime reduction from overload Earth), while counters got buffed. To hell with build diversity.

It was pretty awesome, this guy ran the rock shield, frost bow and fiery greatsword and he won his 1 vs 1 with a dagger ele and when the guy tried to run he could catch him.

Also the bunker ranger was not as good as shoutbow warrior and shout guardian but he had more mobility and diversity. The team we faced and beat had 2 d/d ele, 1 shout guardian, 1 dps warrior and a thief.

Mid game we decided to out rotate the guardian and this made the ranger for our team better since we head better movement. I mean this is all the stuff i miss. Small differences in builds made it so teams could change up strategy in mid-late game. We won a close game and next game we started with that strategy and we crushed them 2nd game.

Thats what this game is missing. Obviously we were nothing special playing playing in AG but it made for exciting match ups with 3 people from the team i was on not playing meta builds and having success vs players using all meta builds.

BrotherBelial.3094:

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Oh I’m sorry,I didn’t know we where talking about the past, or the 5% that know how to do builds………

Great to see you read and understood what I typed.

Im sorry but your comment was horrible and needed addressed

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Is PvP ever going to get this back?

Its funny you post this because every other post is about how people cant win games.

i dont know what made you so mad but ivw won 1 vs 2 on my guardian, necro and warrior in my 9 matches. Im 2 pips away from emerald and i have only done the 3 matches a day.

Take it slow and just try to have fun. The Esports factor shouldnt mean anything to you and this game trying to go epsorts gives incentive for Anet to get PvP right.

You didnt explain what made you so mad and if im to be honest, if ele are making you mad maybe its a L2P issue in which case maybe you and your wife needed to take a break.

8 wins 1 loss and i was using classes i dont play very often

I went with double time warp and the 2 sec plus duration

Ofir.2405:

+1 , pls fix it. This stops only after using the avatar form but it is really annoying untill I use that form.

It makes hard to see your dodge bar too

Terrorsquad.4802:

geekilo.8512:

I’m not talking about the matchmaking. I’m talking about build diversity, and top tier OP classes – reaper, revenant and scrapper and then everything else are trash. It’s not fun to pvp anymore and yet Anet failed to see what is wrong with these top tier classes.

You forgot Tempest.

Or maybe you didn’t because you are an Ele.
Ele has sick survivability. 2v1

Thats not a meta build.

Its a support build but it loses in 1 vs 1 and it can only give support. The old bunker guardian build could stalemate any 1 vs 1 situation and give team support. A ele should lose a 1 vs 1 to many classes.

I dont know this feels harsh. People on my team seemed really into it but i was a 1 vs 2 on guardian and necro today and won them both easy. I dont know, I find it hard to believe this can be fun for either side.

To be honest, a league system should just reward players for playing and just put them at there proper level.