Guild Wars 2

Exciton.8942:

DP thief will dominate now.

With the pulsing stability nerf, thief can take out warrior, necro and ranger very easily. They can already take out mesmer and ele quickly before the patch. DH also gets heavily nerfed. The only class that can resist dp thief well now is engi.

+1 finnaly someone who knows

hi guys

so ventari got (some call it a buff) unique change to his elite

now it aoe cleanse 1 condition for every 10 nrg you lost

downside – you remain with 0 nrg….

so its strong aoe cleanse combine with purifine essence which cleanse 3 condition aoe

so i dueled a bit versus condi warrior and mesmer.

yes it strong cleanse

BUT

you must prepare your rotation right

you cannot spamm it in pvp like we used too as now the kb to control point is bit useless cause you have now 3 different reason why to use the skill and 0 nrg left to self sustain

1. heal fragment on poiny – i wish ppl would notice them common 1.8k heal each
2. condi cleanse (mainly versus necro and now revenenat torment aoe) – 240r so ppl need to be near the tablet so again area observesion
3. kb ress stomp, control point

the zero nrg minimize your decision making alot as its hard to build nrg and when you use it you probably must change legend to gain 50% nrg back

the trick here is to survive without nrg till you build 30% back

to do so you must practice. save endurance so you can dodge twice when needed. use blind with staff, evade with sword 3,

or choose your other legend right

mallyx – versus high condi pressure and good boon removal and aoe effects
jalis – aoe reduce dmg (condi also) , stability mainly
dragon – panic botton with heal skill and boon sharing – can be problematic if enemy stop attacking you. but if you codi bomb you will heal nevertheless

so after ele got nerfed a bit , not that it would change their meta build at all

no water sigil or renewal – so less healing
5 more secodn on healing skill
1 sec less in armor so less free stomp or ress by ele.
but better elite skill which can heal about 5k if you take fatal dmg

if we compare rev to ele now:
revenant has now better way to handle aoe conditions versus the ele ( but 240r… versus 600r ele shouts)
rev has better healing burst 240r versus 180r ele heal skill or shout 600

rev still got less sustain and no panic bottons like ele do

so does the healing, blind can sustain revenant more when all classes got bit less dmg and sustain ????

i took ventari/mallyx – had fun with it. mallyx now offer more wyas to pressure with mace 2 poison so even with no condi dmg i got about 1k condi dmg from tormemt, poison and burning on point so overall more dps.
i took ventari/jalis – nice ress/stomp ability with 70% less dmg taken and stability
i took ventari/ dragon – for me big no. ppl know how to handle dragon skills and you can share boons might swiftness regen and protection with others legends and thier heal skill is better

so what you guys say

should we give ventari another try or not?

dont think it would work in pvp – rip boon with 3 sigils, necro thief. too risky to have conditions on revenenat

martin.1653:

Either way still pretty awesome stuff. Really good together with Demonic Defiance. Resistance will negate the part of torment duration anyways.

till it rip off by sigil , necro, thief….

Maniacal Persistence: This trait no longer increases your critical-hit chance. It now lashes out torment at nearby enemies when you gain resistance.

ingame it also proc on yourself 4 torment when you get resistance – anet r u CRAZY?

Vyrulisse.1246:

Burtnik.5218:

Vyrulisse.1246:

The real insanity lies in the Ventari Elite. You can spam it pretty much for tons of healing orbs on a near constant basis and it only costs 10 energy. Easy to keep up.

Thats also fun stuff, sadly im not into support at all.

True and granted you won’t be doing anything else since it uses up all remaining energy but it’s a fun thing to mess around with. :P

it protect from condi bomb in team fight as you will have lrage nrg pool to use to cleanse 5 allies
in pvp i cannot use it to control the area with kb anymore cause of the 0 nrg now….

Pyriall.1683:

messiah.1908:

you want build which was tested with jalis so here it is
support role
pros :
good with healing and dmg reductions , 33% protection 50% from rotgd, 20% vh
cons:
conditions dmg but with good awareness and skills rotations you can handle most builds
2 sigils which remove conditions, healing skill which remove 3, elite with reduce dmg by 50% and vh another 20%, rune which reduce duration by 25% and start with more hp.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMsklZlRNgEaYNjOKxO6q7G-TZxGABK8AAWZ/B7LDAwpAwsjAAA

other than that i dont see sustain dmg using jalis as bunker

Stop thinking in terms of bunker and think in terms of support. Your job would be to support your team with damage reduction, heals, cleanses, and cc. With all of that, the combination of Jalis and Ventari is the better duo imo.

jalis mainly theme is dmg reduction and dmg reduction is bunker theme . the stability is weird and cost too much and the taunt is reflectable and slow not pierce so clone, pet usually get hit instead
maybe used in pve and wvw but unusable in pvp
now ventari main theme is support through heals

if it hit 5 target aoe might be too strong for its nrg and cd.

it should be a break stun, aoe range 240, nrg 30

would if buff the tankiness abilities – dont think so.

still jalis lacks in blocks, remove conditios, retaliation theme, stunbreak.

the whole idea for now in group support mainly with stability, dmg reduction

if you want jalis to be a tank this is what you need

RotgD – an elite which reduce dmg and condition dmg on you (not your team) by 50%. duration 10 sec. after the 10 sec it heals allies for 50% the dmg you took and remove 3 aoe conditions. internal cd 30 sec.
the trait versed in stone should be instead when reach 50% hp use RotgD. RotgD gives retaliation for 10 sec.

@Varlya – i know ventari cleasne it can cleanse 6 condition but cost about 50 nrg so its not spammable. and versus mesmer/necro you will have to disengage to build more nrg thus leaving the point uncontested.
the ability to build up nrg comes from mallyx who proc resistance (versus necro cover it up with facet of nature boons) and than you can switch to ventari to cleasne and build nrg meanwhile you taking no condi dmg.
with shiro you just cant. the heal skill can be blocked although it can give nice healing . the only thing shiro gives is escape abilities

Varyla.1592:

Jalis Elite is 40 energy since the up.
I have done several games with Jalis and Ventari, and Ventari is far more efficient in term of tankiness. Switching to Jalis reduces your ability to survive compared to Ventari.
It is not necessarily due to stunbreaks, in my opinion. The Elite should be anticipated and not used after the burst has started. It is best used in team fight and not when bunkering alone. It may be good for 2v2. In 1v2 or 1v3, you still take too much damages. Keeping energy for blocks and evades is better.
I have tried Shiro + Ventari, and it is the best I found. Better for disengagement and more spike damage. And the heal is hard to interupt and gives you enought survivability for Ventari to be up.

but how you handle condition bomb with shiro?

i kinda likes the corruption trait line and skills

the changes i would love to see are mainly to handle conditions and to be more dangerous the more conditions you have on you.

skills:
empowering misery – gain resistance for each condition you have for 1.5 sec each. idea mainly support yourself. so you can have longer duration of resistance like the warrior around 9 sec on 30 sec skill cd.

pain absorption – transfer 3 conditions from each ally. break stun. give 3 sec resistance to allies. gain 1 sec self resistance for each ally you transferred from. idea mainly support your team better and gain self resistance by allies and not conditions so max is 5 sec. in pvp you wont get much but you can support better. in wvw better skill for yourself also.

banish enchantment – not changed

unyielding anguish – leap finisher, range 900 – our way to disengage and move around.

embrace the darkness – increase to -10. randomly pulse torment 5 sec, burning 3 sec, bleeding 5 sec, poison 3 sec. when you reach below 5% nrg you pulse 5 sec resistance around you 20 sec cd. idea here much stronger elite which you consider if you want to use all nrg to gain the resistance aoe while you wont be able to use skills which cost nrg so you play more defensively.

so yes resistance can be stripped or removed this is the idea to handle conditions with it with several skills.

trait changes:
minors
1 – no change
2 – chance on hit 25% to steal boon, cd 5 sec
3 – torment dmg increase by 2% for every condition you have on yourself

adapt – idea here is to choose how condition affects you. healing , resistance , or more poison dmg.
1 – for each stack of condition you gain healing. 3 sec cd. 50 base healing. with 1200 healing power should be 150 (idea option for healing while you are condi bomb. so with 10 bleed, 10 poison from the necro you can have 1000- 3000 healing for every 3 sec which is 333-1000 healing per second while the dmg . don’t forget poison reduce the healing by 33%. so this is its counter.
2 – when you have more than 4 conditions on you gain 3 sec resistance .10 sec cd. should help when condi bomb. . this trait want you to support your allies.
3 – also add the the trait fact. poison dmg increase by 25%.

major – focus on reducing dmg on you and putting more dmg on enemies
1 – for each condition on you increase dmg by 3% and decrease dmg by 3% on you .
2 – i would love if it proc frost aura for 4 sec instead. frost aura chill and reduce dmg on you. so you can choose which trait to take.
3 – banish enchantments range increase to 900,remove 4 boons and apply 6 confusion stacks. the result is the same as the passive trait proc and remove 2 and put 3 confusion. now it enhance the skill itself so you can choose if to become more deadlier in team fight and spamm it twice….

grandmaster – focus on punishing enemies mainly.
1- i like this trait but i would add. gain fire aura also for 4 sec. to gain might aswell within corruption trait line.
2 – like this trait also which increase direct dmg. also i would add you have chance of 33% to transfer condition on critical hits. (no cd trait so 33% chance only which mean 3 sec if all your attack are crits so in 9 sec its 3 conditions in theory.
3 – amazing if it could transferred conditions instead

so basically resistance is more useful and can be maintain by
healing skill – using right with 5 conditions to gain 7.5 sec (15 sec with 100% boon duration. but remember can be stripped)

elite skill – for 5 sec if you reach below 5 nrg (10 sec with 100% boon duration) but force you to play more defense and AA as you have no nrg, no stun break for couple of second…. and its not spammable with 20 sec cd.

PA – in pvp you get in average 3 sec (in 4v4 on mid you have 3 allies) in wvw you will get 5 sec (and 100% boon duration 10 sec)

trait if choose will proc

so yes in wvw, pve you could build perma resistance (warrior can build 42 sec ressitance) so necro should rip it
in pvp you will have about 33% boon duration.

if its too powerful as i havent test it yet nerf it little bit the duration

with jalis you wanna take it easy with nrg skills
try to land weakness as much as possible which reduce dmg by 50%
put protection which reduce dmg by 33%

this way you can build nrg to use elite and vh when needed to handle conditions dmg for 5 sec

very useful in team fight where the split is 1-4 mid. as you can start with iR to put stability and weakness on point. elite which reducd dmg by 50% for 5 sec and protection aoe another 33% switch to ventari and build nrg for the healing
if you team focus fire they will take less dmg for 5 and can kill fast not worrying about support much

you want build which was tested with jalis so here it is
support role
pros :
good with healing and dmg reductions , 33% protection 50% from rotgd, 20% vh
cons:
conditions dmg but with good awareness and skills rotations you can handle most builds
2 sigils which remove conditions, healing skill which remove 3, elite with reduce dmg by 50% and vh another 20%, rune which reduce duration by 25% and start with more hp.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJR/kNlsgyoS4Q5UJYrMsklZlRNgEaYNjOKxO6q7G-TZxGABK8AAWZ/B7LDAwpAwsjAAA

other than that i dont see sustain dmg using jalis as bunker

Buran.3796:

messiah.1908:

ventari can hold a point in almost any 1v1 and some 1v2 without kiting around and losing the point. but the main idea is support, cc, boons as the ele.

That may be true vs low level players, I can’t see it working vs almost any class played by a top dog. And as you said even in the bunker/support role Druids and Tempest are better, so no team will take a Ventari Rev to fill that purpose over the others.

There will be a tournament in June hosted by Jebro; let’s wait to see how many Jalis and Ventaris show up then.

you wont see ventari. just to clarify i still stand that ventari can support (not bunker) even better than ele.
they both needs good team support and awareness. but ele is more easy to play and learn as support role as its rotations are easy and strait forward. while rev more hard tricky but yield more

i bet if top dog will try it they might find some use

you have several mistakes

the build ele use is only with lighting flash and sometime even without it and go all shouts build.
each shout remove 2 conditions (with rune) and each aura remove only 1. overload water remove 5 conditions .so you are right. ele has better condi cleanse abilities.
there is no off hand dagger
6 sec reflect with 30 sec cd and 3 sec reflect with 20 sec cd
4 sec invulnerability with 40 sec cd
no armor of earth trait or skill being used
no signet use
no stability
mallyx gives 5 sec resistance base and 1.25 sec more for each condi you remove from ally. so you can have 9 sec easy with good rotation
ele dmg comes mainly from overload air. other that that the dmg output per second is the bit the same.

many thanks for your compliment as i havent encounter forum memeber who does it

i said i try ele and encounter more of the same problems to sustain if my team dont support me with dmg. i found that enemies try not to fight ele but willing to lose time fighting rev support.

Buran.3796:

Varyla.1592:

So, could I have an experienced revenant explain me why Jalis is not suited for sPvP ? It seems everyone focus on Ventari.

Jalis doesn’t increase your survability one atom, and replaces either Shiro or Glint, both of them are way better providing either sustain tools or heavy pressure to the target. Also, Retribution -which sinergizes with Jalis-was already inferior to Invocation in PvP before the patch that butchered that traitline in October of 2016.

Noone focus on Ventari in PvP; maybe someone is using it -because I saw it in a few videos-, but I never saw them in person in the whole Season 6. Theoretically Ventari could have some use as suport and/or control point holder… The problem is that you won’t be better in that role than a Druid or a Tempest, and pure bruisers as Warriors can easily equal your sustain while providing x4 the damage output (a Berserker can fight you at 0 risk while using a zerker amulet).

druid is better at bunkering a point
ventari can hold a point in almost any 1v1 and some 1v2 without kiting around and losing the point. but the main idea is support, cc, boons as the ele.
ele is much intuitive to play versus the ventari but ventari heal much higher imo with low cd skills

jalis meant to be bunker on point.
the idea of stability, cc, and aoe dmg around you combine with dmg reduction on paper sound nice.

problems:
RotgD – cost 40 nrg last for 5 sec – when you use it? on team fight to have 5 sec burst dmg while taking 50% less. bunker use it as breakstun and to handle condition burst.
so how you handle conditions burst…. you cannot spam it as its cost 40 nrg so after 5 sec conditions will kill you
VH – drain you nrg so when you use it? in 1v2 it can heal you a bit. but what if you fight versus melee and range you wont hit them both… so mainly its add little bit more dmg
FE – they reduce nrg at the cost of cd. so taunt make the enemy attack you. as bunkering they will attack you which can be blocked, reflect and cost too much for a bunker to try it. so mainly use it in team fight when you not focused
IR – the main problem is the stability doesnt proc right away and boom you r cc. so again mainly use to give team stability on point.
heal skill – the main source of retaliation which is not like guard who can have longer duration of it. and also cleanse 3 conditions in 30 sec cd…

so you have no condi cleanse almost, weird aoe stability (the dodge even more reliable) , and low aoe dmg versus melee. and high cost elite skill

the reason why to use it is when you condi bomb swap the it use the elite and VH to gain 70% dmg reduction from condi. (on my calculation it was 78% dont know how)
for 5 sec . use heal skill and swap back to use another heal skill to run away….

ventari – also ppl not use it beside me why
no break stun mainly and high micro managing which needs team communication or knowledge as they need to fight near the tablet
in pvp on paper should be easy just to fight on point. but ppl chase off point so its harder for you.
if you get focus you dont have escape ability so you must predict enemy moves

i am big fan of diversity , more builds and counter builds
for pvp you have to remember

top players fight within groups which practice together thus they create builds which complete each other and eventually become meta build 90% of them.
so more elite lines probably yield the same resulty for each class 1 meta build

if anet could balance each class to be able to play each role like bunker, healer, dmg, sustain than we might see more diversity

the last season we saw the same team compositions and same builds so it became boring.

so i say more builds more core builds and elite ones. i want to see several meta builds for each profession

than it would become even more interesting as one team would have to guess what the other is playing and plan their tactic aswell

Nickzor.2453:

messiah.1908:

you have death match – ppl complain
you have stringhold – ppl complain
you have cap point – ppl complain

the fact stay the same – you cant satisfy all

the problem in pvp is the lack of builds diversity, the lack of counter to meta builds, the lack of creation (2 years i see d/p thief…) the lack of change

The meta was made by the ESL players and even the builds that weren’t made by them were popularized by them. If you want counter meta builds make one since the ESL players have kind of well… left….

That being said there is plenty of issue with people lacking game knowledge making builds. There are also plenty of viable builds that aren’t meta especially in solo queue.

You need to have an understanding of your class, the other classes, the meta and the roles. The amount of times I see people using their own build talking trash to meta players just because they kill them makes my head hurt….. If you build can kill a meta build cool. But if you sacrifice everything else your class does you gain 1v1 potential but lose any other real use.

Meta builds are meta because they are flexible. Keep that in mind because with the lack of a pro scene the meta is everyones hands now.

dont undrstand what you saying really

no esl player so meta is used by every one – ok so what
no counter to meta build so create one – ok lets do
you cant create counter cause meta build are so flexible – my point exactly anet should make stronger every season other traits and skills so ppl can create more builds

more build will bring more diversity and tactic

Pyriall.1683:

Should have said, better than Mallyx/Ventari. Can’t edit atm.

so how you handle condiburst on you?

Pyriall.1683:

Jalis/Ventari are better than Ventari/Glint imo.

i play ventari/ mallyx to handle condi pressure.

i fought as rev and as ele soloq and full teamq

several enemy team comps

1. 3 condi, ele, guard – at the beggining we had it. i share and cleane conditions. but when the enemy tea, notice i did all of that BOOM i always get focused . my team fell to help me and also i did lost of mistakes.
2. 2 warrior , 2 guard, 1 ele – had easy matchup for me. also as expected most useful as i could disengage easy with blind and hold 1v2 till help came
3. 2 thieves, necro, ele, ranger – we lost 1 point. mainly cause of me doing bad choices on rotation (and probably my team also) again i was focus hardly by the thieves and necro while my team didnt focused them

with my ele i felt the same problem to be honest. sure i felt more sustain versus conditions but when my ally took heavy condition dmg after i have i have only 2 cd available for him so i felt most of the fight waiting for cd’s
when i get focus by thief and guard or warrior i needed the support from my team and if i got it i could blink safely but if i dont after 10 sec of spam skills and immunity i was dead if i didnt leave the point….

so for me
1. ele can better sustain himslef but if do he bit useless to the team for 20 sec but more easy and friendly to use.
2. rev has low cd on his skills but need team to focus on him so he can better support them while ele just need to move around after his allies. i think rev need allies to move around him.
3. ranger is more bunker than healer on point.
4. scrapper the same more bunker than team support.

when my team target the ranger or ele they were dead in 10-20 sec so i felt more okish with my revenant

still learning and doing lots of 1v1 to learn its weakness . so far cc chain is the weakness so you have to notice everyone around you in team fight. when i see thief and warrior focus me…. big problem if my team focus others….

alain.1659:

What you ask is to be the ultimate ranged profession, but it is not revs job. Hammer is ok except the camera bug. Hammer 2 is more powerful than any other ranged attack in my opinion. Other skills are ok ish. Problem is legends themselves.

ranger has better range dmg , stealth, fast cc skills and faster AA
so ultimate i guess no but useable maybe yes

rev in pvp dont have range option which is shame

another comment i have

had yesterday 5 games ranked with guildies and comms. my guildies havent used to support revenant in thier team so…
my team was 3 dmg, engi and me
we face several team comp
1. 3 condis 2 dmg – we had the oppening but when they started to target me i crambel and die.. also i did bad choices on rotations and expected for help to come. we lost 499-500
2. 4 dmg 1 sustain dmg – we lost big time as i was always targeted and my team fail to do dmg on me so i couldnt run
3. 3 dmg 2 ele support – we won as we target the eles and kill them while i manage to do more 1v2 cause i havent been focused

when i got help i manage to get the focus of me so able to heal better even from range and did about 650 healing and top heal and defense score.
when i got focused it was hard unless my team help me and do dmg on me

also again bad choices i have made… to go 1v2 on contested point….

i play ele later with unranked soloq. versus 2 thief again i had the same problem

so my question is
does ele can handle big pressure of 2 dmg dealers?
does ele need also his team dmg support on him?

or its the revenant problem

didnt the leak say that engi gonna be support class with water fields and light fields?

you are amazing

happy to donate gold so send invite

i doubt rifle and pvp will meet . 1500 range for a thief where as the arena has lots of obstacles and line of sight combine with block, reflects will result in the same d/p meta for thief which gonna be lame

if so and we get rifle thief will have less access to stealth and more reposition skills with shadow step or evade (but evade belong to DD)

lets wait and see

i think every new elite will be interesting as they must sell it
so for 2 months at least we gonna see power creep mesmer LOL

with mirage you can have more evade , blind, illusion swap, more control with kd,kb

i wish we could summon phantasm out of combat (like minions)

the only thing we have to worry about is 25% speed…

i played support ele and know its abilities this is why i think also revenant can compete this role
yes ele is more easy to handle as you just spamm skill if you pressured but good player will save and watch his cd’s
the same goes with revenant . watch your nrg (hardly no cd’s to worry about) and you do fine.

i think the ways to draws more ppl to the pvp area are
1. longer tutorials on rotations, skills, cc, support and targeting and focus fire
2. rewards that benefit a good move or contribution to the score (tricky but doable)
3. fun maps and tournament maps
4. larger pool of builds to choose from and not only 1 meta. counter builds for example.
5. more balance matchmaking (it always be tricky)
6. each player choose his role and will rewarded for it.

SneakyTouchy.6043:

messiah.1908:

boons – the same. rev got fury while ele got vigor. rev can perma protection while ele not so much. off fight ele can give swiftness which is nice.

Most offensive classes have their own fury source. It doesn’t really contribute. The protection uptime is also a lot higher. You don’t have to spam a heal skill to keep it up. Ele also provides a lot of regen which adds up to far more over time.

messiah.1908:

secure stomp – block and blind for the rev
block versus reflect but more handy to the rev due to low cd.
ele teleport 40 sec saving for disengage mainly. while rev can leap with ua and staff 5 with lower cd (but not teleport)

Stone flesh can only be interrupted by cloaking the downed. This is considered a secure stomp because you can drop 1000 CC’s on the ele and none of it works. Blind does not secure a stomp. It only protects from one attack. Also block? Ok so you can bubble against ranger bow 4 and headshot but that’s not very secure considering the rest of what you’ll face.

messiah.1908:

corruption – resistance is for the rotation and but some time versus fast condition proc like guards burning. you build up 9 sec and swap back to ventari with 50 nrg to use staff 4 +solace + PE . you can stay in mallyx if the condi class cannot rip boons off you.

dont use shiro as your role is to hold points, decap and not run away.

This is why it completely fails against necromancers. You soak up your entire team’s conditions and the necro pops your resistance with their access to corruptions -> Instant death. The ele just cleanses and also has diamond skin.

messiah.1908:

also rev got better kb off point and cc

Yeah but it’s the only offensive pressure that build has. There are very good reasons why it isn’t used competitively.

ele needs to use aura to proc protection swiftness and regen. where rev use his on with nature , shield 4 and healing skill. the staff auta attack grant regen and swiftness on the point if the fight is near you allies will step on it.

stomp – warrior , thief, engi, rev – use solace to block
stomp – ranger, guard, – blind so they cannot intrupt you. fyi you can use ventari tablet during any action so you can start the stomp and use the heal skill for blind at any moment fits
if ele use OF to secure stomp he losing his best immunity to dmg.. bad thing
if its other who you need to bother that use elite kb and its easy stomp unless they got stability which means they want to res mainly. than you can put poison …

yes ripping resistance can be downside so have to play careful. most team focus the necro first for some reason…

your comments are true but from bunker prespective and not support. necro can rip ele stability , protection regen etc… also can i with mallyx which ppl tend to forget. to rip warrior resistance in team fight make him wet noddle.

Naurgalen.2374:

Rev may be better at healing but you are totally underestimating auras, specially for small teams / PvP with powefull aura:

- Frost aura is -10% incoming damage + 40% of protection!!!! (sadly probably only 40% for team)Thats some really nice mitigation… + health ,regen, vigor & swiftness! And eles have 2 auto-procs + flash freeze and overload

- Shoking aura is IMHO the strongest and can totally win melee fights for your team with its proc in air-dagger on decent cd (25seg)+ the rebound (Im sad they gave us a useless long superspeed instead of a 3rd proc) ofc + health ,regen, vigor & swiftness

- Ele has BEASTLY ranged protection: personal magnetic wave reflec, magnetic aura reflect for ALL the team with overload & aftershok + Projectile destroy with Swirling winds (And ofc with the ult, but best use it when needed / in air) – I know 2 are skills, but the interactions are really strong and needed to be explained

- 3 meh fire auras (I know they are the worst and the damage is minimal but its a little more might + 3 procs of health ,regen, vigor & swiftness)

Except fire, wich you can spam, they are really strong and used in the right moments can change the flow of the battle. Sometimes even more than just healing.

dont get me wrong. iam not saying ele is less useful
ele is strong as condi cleanse where rev at healing
yes ele got frost aura with 10% dmg mitigation where rev got blind aoe which is also dmg mitigation
ele need to spam his skills with bigger cd where revenant has lower cd
if ele taking focus he needs to use his cd and after that he is bit useless for several seconds where revenant isnt

the big problem with revenant is the micromanaging but all in all its fun with nice tricks which does the job.

rev can aoe torment, poison, burning stack on point and rip boons in team fight when not taking focus fire.

ele will still be the choice as it more easy and friendly to use. rev is another option if you know how to play it

also powerful aura is not taken rather cleansing water if PA taken than your cleanse ability is less than the revenant.

Taobella.6597:

i have been testing them out honestly i cant say i really notice a difference

^ in wvw

its a 10 sec cd only 1 condition which is better than 0

if it was 5 sec cd than it would fit perfectly to the ventari healing skill (3 sec is just to much to ask) or make it remove 2 conditions

in pvp where revenant needs every condi removal is could be nice but not that much needed if you taking too many conditions

focus now on more 1v2

1v2 ele and engi
1v2 ele and thief
1v1 thief
1v4 died my mistake not looking at the map to disengage

hope you like it

SneakyTouchy.6043:

Support wise they are both about equally as good. The rev can hand out better healing, but the ele can provide more reliable boons and cleansing due to the greater range of AOE.

The real difference is that the Ele does damage, can kill people, secure safe stomps, reflect projectiles (pressure), disengage more easily and rotate faster through teleport. In order to reach the point where a rev can heal more, they have to run magi which makes them almost worthless in terms of pressure. Heal revs with mallyx are also extremely vulnerable to corruption. Shiro is usually better for it’s ability to disengage, rotate, and pressure with CC but loses condi control. The ele however has it all in one package.

boons – the same. rev got fury while ele got vigor. rev can perma protection while ele not so much. off fight ele can give swiftness which is nice.

secure stomp – block and blind for the rev
block versus reflect but more handy to the rev due to low cd.
ele teleport 40 sec saving for disengage mainly. while rev can leap with ua and staff 5 with lower cd (but not teleport)

corruption – resistance is for the rotation and but some time versus fast condition proc like guards burning. you build up 9 sec and swap back to ventari with 50 nrg to use staff 4 +solace + PE . you can stay in mallyx if the condi class cannot rip boons off you.

dont use shiro as your role is to hold points, decap and not run away.

also rev got better kb off point and cc

Buran.3796:

Rym.1469:

They would have some use in PvP, though.

Didn’t found a single Ventari Rev in PvP in my ~100 matches at Season 6; the build isn’t currently meta in PvP and that game mode is more than toasted, so that rune probably doesn’t have much use aside to balance the uneven leg of a table…

no way, i was playing support rev ….. this rune could be nice with centaur / jalis

NeXeD.3042:

messiah.1908:

i remember ppl QQ at every season for every reason they had

Q time 30min till hour
bad players
afkers
matchmaking
conditions build
power creep
bunker creep

so what’s new

if the community was little bit more funnier, tolerant, patient enjoyable, this game would have developed to something which could have attracted more ppl

i usually start the game with have fun and good luck
which build r u playing
i play….
i go mid/close
i ping and call target

almost 90% of the games i have play none did that

i mostly agree with this, its the everyone gets a trophy attitude to blame… man i would have loved to see what some of these people would do if they played a sandbox like UO back in the day. If we died we lost everything, and people complain today about losing and still being given rewards lol

dont get me wrong . i still can explode when i see my team has 2 cap points and suddenly 3 of them push to the third with no reason so the enemy team doing 4v3 and killing them and turning the fight.
or when i do 1v2 the whole fight while control the point and my team cant do 4v3 and die…. LOL

here is a comparison i did between the two

on paper i think rev is better but the micro managing of the tablet while others should respond to it in order the get the full benefit at the moment require others to learn how to play with support revenant while with ele its only you who needs to learn what to do.

but nevertheless i enjoy to explore and play and to surprise allies when they get full hp in 3 seconds.

so here is the comparison

healing per second – rev won
condition removal – ele won
boons – the same – vigor versus fury and rev bit more might stacks
other abilities
blind – rev
immobilize and cripple – ele
cc – rev with lower cd
range versus melee – rev
boon removal – rev
immunity and escape – ele
reflect – ele
conditions pressure – rev with poison, torment and burn

hope you like it and comment

i remember ppl QQ at every season for every reason they had

Q time 30min till hour
bad players
afkers
matchmaking
conditions build
power creep
bunker creep

so what’s new

if the community was little bit more funnier, tolerant, patient enjoyable, this game would have developed to something which could have attracted more ppl

i usually start the game with have fun and good luck
which build r u playing
i play….
i go mid/close
i ping and call target

almost 90% of the games i have play none did that

could be used in pvp with jalis heal skill to remove 4 conditions and ventari roatation

Elliodas.9023:

Hi guys! Today I bring you a build that I used in this PvP season which has been phenomenal! Unlike the common thief, this one works better in a group than alone. I hope you like it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2DNDjqcElg

the problem is you hardly share the venom with your team as you cant take the hit near them… so its mainly evade builds thus i think the d/p build is much better for its role

your role is team fight and not roamer thus in team fight do you think necro/guard/warrior is better?

Taobella.6597:

thanks for your insight i tried it many time in wvw an it always make me want to flip a table compare to offhand shield. maybe i will give it another shot i never used auto attack on it.

in wvw if your team can give you quickness the AA on the staff is amazing . the orb procs like crazy.

Taobella.6597:

any tips for staff i tried it many times i always come back to result that i hate it XD

if using it in support build the staff is a must
skill 1 proc orbs which heal you and allies – take the orbs which grant you also regen and swiftness this alone will give you about 633 healing per second. whirl finisher so try to combo it with light field to fire cleansing bolts if allies near you.

skill 3 blind and block so use it on key moments

skill 4 heal and cleanse 2 conditions but its 1 sec so careful from being cc. with ventari try not to use it as it cost more . so only if your team needs it mainly. also its blast finisher so try to combo it with fields.

skill 5 kb so use it when the enemy use big burst, heal, ress, stomp and push off point. also its evade so use it when needed when you are in low health and need to by some time for your nrg or healing abilities to recover.

skill 2 weaken enemy and can daze (the weaken is the important ability for me)

if you want to practice whisper me ingame

Abazigal.3679:

messiah.1908:

the idea is – if you did good you dont lose points even if you team lost. if you did bad and your team won you will get very low points.

That’s a bit more complicated, the question i wanted to point out is " how do you define doing good/doing bad ". There will be some fights where i could be 1v2 on far the whole game, and time to time 1v3, while not trying to damage anything or even decapping since my teammates will be outnumbering other points. In such a scenario :
- if we win, my teammates will have top damage top cap for sure
- if we lose ( on a 4v3 scenario, which is terrible, usually because people feed mid 1 by 1 ), they will still have top stats and i will lose more points than them.

There can be many similar situations too..

great question

lets assum you manage 1v3 not near a cap point the whole game (to be defense or offense) so your team did 4v2 the whole game
can i assume you build is defense? or even if you thief who trolls. now its means that the enemy is very bad to chase thief the whole game.
so you didnt kill, didnt do dmg, didnt defend (like the game calls it) didnt heal,

so how the game will know you did good? and if its good for later games.

your team won… but you shouldnt get much points to fights so low mmr players… as it doesnt mean you did good rather the enemies did worst.

now if you do that near cap point which means the enemy try to cap the point you hsould get defense title if you do 1v3. and get more winning points.

dont forget the losing team 3 of them at least also will punish for doing nothing aswell so the next game they should chase a thief off point 3v1.

so regarding decisions making my assumption can be on the right track as ppl will try to maximize thier score which attached to their role and builds.

its like basket ball. every player has its role. time to time they can do shifting ingame base on any situation but eventually every player try to maximize his role in the game as he know he affecting others

i will try to go mallyx shiro and see any differnet with my friends

Spoichiche.1290:

messiah.1908:

If i choose defense and all the game i rotate to decap all the game i mislead my team even if we win. if i did higher dmg while playing defense off node more than the offense player i did wrong etc..

Yeah, that’s exactly why i don’t want this kind of system. I’m playing conquest, and i’m making decisions in order to win, including adapting or completely changing the way i play in the middle of the game.
If, as a thief, i realise that i can keep 2 people chasing me off point because they are idiots and that allows the rest of my team to win the map, i shouldn’t be punished for this decision. If, as an ele, i realise that this enemy dh is destroying everyone 1v1 and even 1v2, i shouldn’t be punished when i make the decision to 1v1 him on a neutral point when my team is still doing good in teamfights.

There are countless scenario where a seemingly ‘bad decision’ can win you a game, because you have to play around your team and the enemy team.
I don’t want an arbitrary system that limits the decisions i can make as a player in order to win a game.

i want to limits bad decisions as i cant force players to hold mid while we have 2 point with no need to go 3 point.

even if you make a decision which is not by your class or role you still can lose point if your team lost or win little point if your team wins. the idea is to push ppl to learn and make the right moves

several fight last season i had top 3 state and some ppl in my team QQ me for making bad decisions. while i was able to res, decap, cap and hold our only point. while they were ding one after the another. not waiting for regroup.

Coolguy.8702:

messiah.1908:

here is a 5v5
check the warrior burst me with conditions

https://youtu.be/eabhcd7FXps?t=46

have fun

Dude you used ventari to go with mallyx ( when most use glint or shiro with him) which probably ment u were using a bunker build. Revs shouldnt have to go bunker just to be able to condi cleanse properly

check mallyx rotation which what save me from conditions not ventari. i hardly use ventari to cleanse rather to heal. and ues i use support build

exploit will always be and anet needs to deal with it

but to reduce the unknown factor every player must choose before the game start his role . if i choose defense and all the game i rotate to decap all the game i mislead my team even if we win. if i did higher dmg while playing defense off node more than the offense player i did wrong etc..
already we have score system so attached them to the player and put it solo score theme mmr aswell

Silv.9207:

Another condi L2P thread?

1) Condition damage have to kill you the same way Direct damage do, or you’ll never ever see again a condi build in this game (as it was for two years, where there was only direct damage and no one used conditions, not even necromancers or mesmers)
2) In a burst meta, if you try to play a slow killing build you’ll only die easy and fast, there’s not any way to keep you alive enough to support a condition nerf as you ask to do
3) Conditions have a LOT of counters, you can use: weapon skills, heal, utilities, elite, trait, Resistance, sigils and runes, you just have to chose the better skills to use and you’ll never be bursted by a condi class
4) Conditions are applied by Skills and that skills can be dodged, evaded, blocked, blinded, you can use terrain to block the line of ranged skills. The only thing they do is inflict they’re damage in X seconds rather than when the skill hit.
5) Following the point n°4, a direct damage revenant can spam AA and inflict you 3k/hit (with 90% critical rate and berserker or 2.5k with any other offensive amulet), a necromancer, mesmer or warrior can’t inflict more than 1k but delayed in time. Also there’s skills for a lot of classes that inflict more than 5k, much more than any condition skill can do, with the same problems to hit but much more counters.
Basicly, direct damage inflict better damage and when the skill hit, a condition damage inflict lesser damage and delayed in time. The only problem is that you only see the total damage after a lot of time and not when the skill hit.
learn to see the real damaging skills, block/dodge/blind/invul or clean them and you’ll be able to fight any condition class easier than any direct damage class of this game
6) Condi is Not bunker. Not anymore. Direct damage amulets have more or less the same defensive chances as a Condition one, granting you to survive with more or less the same defensive statistics. back in time there was a huge difference in defensive statistics between direct and condi amulets, now there’s only a little difference.
7) Condition damage Need Expertise but can’t use it. There’s so much condi clean and Resist in this game that is futile chose a similar statistic. It will increase the damage as ferocity do for direct damage but increasing the time the condition last. But there’s only few situations where a condition last for his full duration, expecially in a team fight. That’s the reason why only few players chos amulets with expertise. They need it but can’t use it.
8) Resistance. A simple boon that make a entire kind of damage totally useless. Actually only revenant and warriors can spam it but condi reve aren’t good enough to fight direct damage class then you’ll not see so much of them. But any warrior can kill a condition class easy and fast, reducing all his damage to 0 for up to 16 seconds, with also a lot of block skills and an insane amount of condi clean (in berserker a warrior can clean 3 conditions every 2.5 seconds)
9) Of 9 classes, only 1 play purely as a condition damage, all the others frequently chose direct damage because is better, faster or grant more self sustain (as for necromancer). There’s a reason why 8 classes over 9 use direct damage and don’t use conditions, don’t you think?

+1
couldnt say it better