Guild Wars 2

Arganthium.5638:

I thought that this post was a joke originally, but apparently it isn’t. So lemme just rattle off all of the problems with these changes:

Warrior:
- HealSig will still heal for more than every other heal in the game, you’re completely missing the point of why it’s OP

Healing Turret (drop, activate ’n pick up) heals for (2520*2+ 130*3 + 130*5)/15 = (6080)/15 = 405 HPS.

Medkit has (4920/20 + 3000/12) = 496 HPS.

No healing power, no trait investment.

Now, HS shouldn’t be that easy to use. I agree for that.

Well, you don’t actually need to push people down.

Just spam your AoE on the ground and cleaves and watch everyone die because they can’t get away. Just stay out of the ledges, and even if you die it’s not a big deal.
Problem is the enemy will do the same to you. Ain’t not like you can avoid anything.

Just outspam your opponent.

Sure, it’s another form of pvp, but I’ve seen better pvp in Dragon Age (see what I did here?)XD

The Gates Assassin.9827:

People said gameplay designed around one shots was bad with Liadri the Concealing Darkness, but that was loved by a lot of people too. I get plenty of satisfaction from defeating someone who is a tough push off.

That was pve. This is pvp.

It’s like griefers in Dark Souls, that say “Blll Blll, the game is hard, prepare to die Blll Blll” when they gank you in a merry 2v1. Or when you are facing multiple mobs.

Too bad what they did was for them as hard as killing Pinwheel with 5 white phantoms.

Bosses that can one-shot you might be fun. Players that can one-shot each other not that much, especially if it’s unpredictable.

Mike.4830:

Argue more about balance mabye it will fix it? D/D is OP and Base Hp is too high

Internet explorer user spotted.

Anastasis.7258:

Warrior:
In this case, if a warrior want to play with healing signet effectively, they will be forced to take Fasthand (Discipline 15), this will stop those braindead spec that breaking the game.
With that, swapping weapon to heal yourself also reward/risk considering right timing to swap/posion cleans.

You are referring to condi spike, right? Because all other builds I can think of already go 15 points into discipline.

Other than that, it might work and it would be fun.

Or just disable Healing Signet while under the effect of Endure Pain and Shield Stance and make it tick at 50% efficiency while under the effect of Berserker Stance.

The Heal is weak to burst, true, but Warriors have other tools to resist burst, and can use them in the hambow build.

Here, now the two things don’t go together.

Dodge the hammer stun, then walk away from the others. Hammer from warrior works with combos mostly. You get bonus damage by hitting enemies that are already disabled. That means warriors get big damage when they chain their skills.

In general, the kernel of every chain is Earthshaker, Backbreaker and Staggering Blow.

To avoid Earthshaker you have to dodge. To avoid Backbreaker you can walk away. Staggering Blow alone isn’t much of a threat.

Or, at least, that’s what I do when I face hambows on a warrior.

I remember in WoW players running into enemies to interrupt their casting by making them lose line of sight. The same thing might work here, never tried myself, the idea came today. If not, you have to move a bit randomly to make stay on target harder.

Seriously, first you all whine because warriors is OP, takes no skill, is not fun, is not fair and so on…

And then complain when someone actually plays a build different than hambow and condi?

I mean… if a warrior agrees Healing Signet is OP and takes Healing Surge you bash him? You only want bandwagoners on this class? Oh, THE HORRORS!XD

What do you know, maybe he was a pro playing a super hard build.

Problem is: what do you need to push far?

Maybe strong damage and survivability doesn’t necessarily mean you can push far. Even if you can kill the home defender pretty fast.

On videos I always see mesmers thieves going far, which makes me think you need teleports to quickly check between mid and far. Just an hypotesis.

Yeah, it would be fair, they might be the only ones left out of the crazy party

#powercreep wars 2

Kryshade.6075:

There ARE times when pushing far is the right move. It being left completely unattended would be one of those, however this should only be done by a class with high mobility (thief) and should never attempt to be defended once capped. It’s also quite reasonable to just neutralize far if left open and not stand around for the cap while your team is getting outnumbered at mid.

Do you think warrior with either sword or Greatsword might be a good option too? He doesn’t have teleports, so in some maps might be a problem.

Qaelyn.7612:

I think all “do this not that” strategizing for PvP is pointless, because the right approach depends on what the other team is doing as well.

It is true, but I can agree that elaborated strategies must be avoided in soloQ.

You can do something like this in LoL, but an average LoL match lasts 40 minutes. Not 10.

However what IMHO the OP is saying is that you should not push far when you just won mid and home, because you’ll end up being ganked by the enemies respowning and stopping by far.

And in general, if the enemy decides to gang up and push the two points you are already holding, it’s not an even fight: you have the advantage of points ticking in your favore. In that situation, the enemy must win the fight, while you are OK with just not losing it.

Oxygen.5918:

redslion.9675:

Oxygen.5918:

zapv.8051:

That assumption is extremely flawed and you know it. One can’t simply assume that they never contribute negatively to a team, nor can one say that they never contribute positively to a team. Viewing it from a statistics standpoint 50% means you contribute equally negatively and positively to the teams you are on, but even that is an assumption. There is far to many random variables to find a percentage that works well all the time. A simple estimation like you or I made holds very little actual baring on the skill of a player.

The assumption that some players are always better than other players is flawed? Would you like some quick duels to settle this one? Bring a friend, or 4.

How did you end up so low in the leaderboard you are better than most other players and easily win 2v1s?

And there’s a different between fighting capability and the ability to make the right decision during a match.

I don’t play a lot, so my leaderboard spot isn’t representative of anything. Besides, I was just illustrating.

I wasn’t trying to imply you are bad because you don’t have a high place in the leaderboard. I’d be no one to judge.

What I mean is that your win ratio depends on more issues, such as where you come from: sometimes it happens that a player starting soloQ enters the leaderboard in too high of a position (assuming the leaderboard actually works as intended) and then eventually falls down to his actual level. We call this player A.

Player B started from a low point in the leaderboard, and eventually went up to his level.

Now, let’s assume A and B are equally good. A will have a lower win ratio than B, because A has been stomped by veteran, and B has stomped rookies. Now they are at the same level, though, and both roughly maintain their position until they get better.

The higher the number of matches played, the more precise this mechanism becomes.

I’ve heard people saying far point assaulting at start can work if you are sure you can kill the home defender pretty fast, cap the point and then go back mid.

Thanks for this explanation!^^ Always nice seeing topics like this.

I tried it, and I feel it’s dangerous: you are making a bet that you will win that 1v1 fast and some other teammates might follow, thus breaking the team organisation. For example, once we lost by a narrow margin (50 points). At the start of the fight I pushed far, killed the enemy mesmer pretty fast (I was playing with an experimental warrior build, the mesmer was at henge and had not enough room to avoid my attacks) and then couldn’t manage to go back to mid because the team split and the enemy respawned. We ended up trying to hold sides, which halfway worked, and then the whole match ended up in a runfest where killing NPCs became decisive.
We didn’t get steamrolled in fights, but still I feel that pushing sides wasn’t a good idea.

Some other times, someone went far, nobody followed him, he managed to go back after taking far and everything went well.

Problem is: what should we do if we lose mid in the first fight?

And then there is Khylo with the treb issue: isn’t necessary to have someone push treb (which has some similarities to far) in order to win mid?

It’s since July that I’m trying to nerf myself because I like the class but not how it ended…

(don’t tell me “play a mesmer”: I HATE pink. And don’t tell me “play a ele”… fighting against them made me hate them. Their toons… won’t… just… shut…up! And I don’t like the noises thieves make.)

Tough life, tough life…XD

Oxygen.5918:

zapv.8051:

That assumption is extremely flawed and you know it. One can’t simply assume that they never contribute negatively to a team, nor can one say that they never contribute positively to a team. Viewing it from a statistics standpoint 50% means you contribute equally negatively and positively to the teams you are on, but even that is an assumption. There is far to many random variables to find a percentage that works well all the time. A simple estimation like you or I made holds very little actual baring on the skill of a player.

The assumption that some players are always better than other players is flawed? Would you like some quick duels to settle this one? Bring a friend, or 4.

How did you end up so low in the leaderboard you are better than most other players and easily win 2v1s?

And there’s a different between fighting capability and the ability to make the right decision during a match.

You could do 2 other things:

disable healing while under Berserker and Endure

and/or

Put Merciless Hammer in another tree. One of the reason why hambow became so strong is that you can build berserker while retaining armor and being close to Cleansing Ire.

Or change something else.

Sword autoattack is actually pretty good, just remember to take Bleed Wounds and Blademaster, even if you play full power. 50% duration on bleed is more than 15% bonus damage, if I remember well. Even better, put at least 25 points in Arms to get attack of opportunity. I go 0/30/20/0/20 sword&shield/hammer (Aye, I do not run with Cleansing Ire). In Arms I got deep wounds, Blademaster and unsuspecting foe for both the hammer and Shield Bash+Final Thrust combo. I need Unsuspecting Foe because it’s disheartening to see Final Thrust not critting.xD

It’s the perfect weapon if you want to go with Soldier’s Amulet, for it lets you retain a decent crit chance without too much precision.

Either leg specialist or -even better- a hammer.

You need to hit them between vade frames, and make that hit count. Hammer disables nowadays will disrupt the thief and hurt him a lot.

You could do the same with other weapons, but you have to time more hits correctly, which can be impossible in a messy fight.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Change healing surge to always heal for stage 2 amount. No adrenaline, just heal. 1 bar, heal and get 5 seconds of vigor. 2 bars heal and 5 seconds regen. 3 bar heal and 5 seconds protection.

Mending, convert up to 3 conditions into 3 stacks of might each for 10 seconds.

Healing signet, reduce base to 300, up the scaling with healing power to reach about 500 with maximum investment. Active recharges adrenaline and recharges burst skill cool down.

Could be interesting?

Even with stage 3 it wouldn’t be such a strong heal.

IMHO stage 2 would be pretty low hps. A value between stage 2 and 3 might be better.

(edit: now that I think of it, I didn’t count the boons, probably it would be the same thing)

Baldric.6781:

If u played sc2 u know that the win loss in a perfect world should be 50%. That’s because it also takes into account ur MMR and so in the enemy team there should be a player with somewhat equal skill as yours. In that game i had consistenly 48-52%, even when i improved a lot and reached higher leagues.
There can only be 2 reasons for a huge group of players not having a close to 50% w/l ratio, either the matchmaking is badly designed or the playerbase is low enough that matchmaking fails most of the time or both.

But, solo queue and even team queue when pugging, is more about having a build that can tank and do damage and some support, than actual skill, indeed one of the best recomendations to achieve higher mmr is to play a greatsword guardian or a warrior.

Well, in a situation like that you’ll achieve 50% in an infinite amount of plays.

Considering no one can achieve that result, your win loss ratio in such situation will be represented by a Gauss distribution. That means there is a random factor in it. The more the games, the narrower the bell curve.

Oxygen.5918:

Silentshoes.1805:

Oxygen.5918:

I’d like to see this with a player that isn’t below average; aka, 56%+ winrate.

Not sure what your point is here.

Average win rate should be about 50% over time now that the MMRs have settled some.

If you are 100% certain that you are not the reason that you are losing (aka, always doing positively good), then your winrate should be at 56%. This rate takes into account the non-probability that you are a negative factor upon your team and that the other team are getting the deadweights instead.

9 (potentially bad players) /10 (potentially bad players + 1, you) = 1.11…

50*1.11… = ~56%

Anything above 50% is a legitimately good win rate to have in a 1v1 game, but this isn’t a 1v1 game.

This work similarly the other way around; bad players are most likely going to hover at or below 44%.

Very good players (someone who consistantly 2v1’s and wins) could see win rates much higher, and very bad players… you see where this is going.

The reason I was looking for someone that was statistically good (56!) was to see the distributions in the higher end of the spvp skill curve. Even if the leaderboards don’t mean anything, the MMR may be there.

It would be true if you are at a low enough matchmarking than the game can be split into deadweight and doing something.

However, take into account that the sample is small -as you said- that means that win rate may vary, because of its random component.

Wait, Deimos, you say that are casual, never played a tournament in your life and STILL have 1 rank above me?

Now that I think of it, I only made 40 soloQs.

OMG! I’m a casual too!

;_;

Time to crawl away in shame.XD

Caffynated.5713:

As far as grenades being hard to land, I disagree in pretty much any sPvP scenario. It’s almost impossible to miss a 150 radius AoE when fighting on point. If you’re trying to land them at long range, you have to compare the difficulty to other long range skills. Do you really believe that landing grenades is harder than ele staff AoE at those ranges?

Depending on the situation, you are supposed to continuously launch grenades while moving.

Often, you’ll have to aim in one direction and run in the opposite one, which is tricky.

Then sure, bombing a point while nobody attacks you is easy. That’s why I hunt thme down when I see them, same as fresh air eles. I’ve seen too many peopel dying because they tought those glass cannons were a non issue and ignored them.

Not only this should be sticky…

the entire Personal Story and all new Living Stories should be told like this.XD

SpecterMAT.7306:

ok
im decent warrior
i go spvp
i use healing signet.
i go animal, i heal heal heal
wtf signet not work
animal kills me
we lose
i say ho ho ho no healing signet no healing signet at all
i take healing surge
i go spvp
ho ho ho warrior with healing signet
i say: noob i won
he is heal and heal and heal more
i criez
i die
i write to anet
anet doesnt fix bug
login after dec 10
wtf nerfes
no love for warrior
i commit sudoku

Personal story would have been a lot better had it all be told this way.XD

fadeaway.2807:

I played a warrior at release and have always been a warrior in most other games. I still have the most pvp games played on my warrior.

Op in wvw zergs , op in wvw roaming, have always been op in hot join, pretty much op in tourney nowadays, definitely op in pve. Incredibly easy and boring to play too. Any reasons I can give will likely already have been said or will be said soon so I won’t bother. Can’t believe anyone hasn’t by now admitted the above.

What do you think I have been doing all this time?

I’ve been trying to create original and challenging yet viable builds!

Many warriors admit what you say. But refuse to give up to the dark side!

Always felt that med guardian were dangerous (their drawback is the low mobility, but against meleers or on points they are really BRUTAL XD)… next time I’ll give another try to GS.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

redslion,
err a bit off topic but will Dark Souls migrate from gfwl to steamworks? because gfwl will close shop in 6 months. the game would be dead by then if they did not migrate.

So I heard. I hope it works, Dark Souls pvp is already a problem because of lag and invasions taking ages for both invaders and invaded. This problem will be addressed in Dark Souls II, which will make pvp much more important (you will be eligible for invasion at any time in the game, no matter if you are human or hollow… like always, we should prepare to die and remember no resource truly matters XD).

Back in topic, there are a lot of possible gamemodes.

One idea might be to borrow from WvWvW and make assault modes, where one team defends and the other attacks.

The problem in general is that the game might not be balanced for something different than pvp conquest, but that might be addressed mostly by changing the shape of the map and game mechanics.

Wintel.4873:

Well we do get the occasional crazy who thinks Ele’s are a top-tier class in SPvP, no community is complete without it’s share of crazies -_-

He said there are NO ele builds at top tier.

He decided to make tiers by BUILD and not by class. And then showed for each class which build belongs to which tier. And Ele has no top tier builds.

Well, I’d say a single guy checking mid and harassing the trebber for the whole match might be useful… there is nothing as morale crushing as being attacked by a treb.

Harper.4173:

redslion.9675:

Harper.4173:

Burst. Poison.
Terrible suggestion.
I’m really tired of seeing these types of threads from people with a l2p issue.

As a warrior in spvp, I’m tired of such simplistic suggestions.

The fact that poison counters signet in a particular way is plain wrong.

The fact that PERMANENT poison might be a counter for warrior because it almost negates the regeneration the class bases its strength on is debatable.

And I’m also dead tired of what this forum has become.

We just debate whether some aspect of warrior is OP or not, without reasoning.

I haven’t seen a discussion about new spvp builds since mace/shield + GS and then hambow were introduced.

This forum has been the first victim of those builds.

The second has been our pride in making the class work. First it made me fall in love with the class, and now strips me away from all the pride playing it.

Burst is the counter. Poison is a weaker counter.
The warrior class is not OP. It is just very prevalent and the bane of terribad players.

True, too bad the hambow build can just shrug off burst thanks to endure pain, while putting enough pressure to make it hard too land.

Don’t misunderstand me: I can deal pretty well against hambows… but with my warrior. (kitten, I like the class THAT much)

I’d rather have a rifle engi than a rifle warrior. Engies tend to work better with vigor and a more mobile fight. Blunderbuss deals very good damage, same goes for jumpshot, and even Overchaged shot can off someone pretty good.

And take into account a SD engi can also block, has lots of healing thanks to medkit (with healing cooldown reset at 25% health) and has good cc.
Oh, and you can use Surprise Shot and Analyze while blocking. Which IMHO is pretty neat.

Rifle on warrior IMHO is far inferior for its damage relies only on Volley and Killshot.

Mrbig.8019:

i don’t really see this “skill”.

I started to play Dark Souls PvP, it is probably one of the most skill based combat ever created, yet it has basically none of the skill and tactic required to play an objective based game ( like conquest SHOULD be).

The issues you’re facing are mostly due to current meta being bunker/bunkerish, not really about the game being conquest based.

In the old power meta, leaving a bunker afking at far was NEVER a good choice unless it was an ele, because there was NO WAY to survive thief+mez for longer than 10 secs ( reason why we used to cry about eles mist forming+ rtl away, simply to go back after being fully healed).

Current bunker engi/war would NEVER stand a chance against old school burst.

Bunker meta arose due to damage being badly nerfed: mez were running mirror images, now you won’t find any fool slotting an u-skill simply for an increased burst.

There are plenty of ways to make conquest interesting, but above all TTK needs to be fast, otherwise we have nothing more than a boring “bunker here, bunker there” game.

As i said, Foefire is a good example of a well designed map, renderd boring by bunkers: i’ve currently bunkered mid in that map with my S/P thief even against 3 people thanks to thief mobility, on a glass build; something impossible to do in other maps.

To make Gw2 shine, we need fast balance decisions in order to tone down certain builds HARD or a whole rebalancing of how conquest works, because right now it’s only about afking on a point with a regen banner or with toolkit/flammenwerfer pushing people away and blocking all attacks half of the time with perma prot.

Now, Dark Souls requires a lot of skills, but that skill doesn’t come in reflexes but in:

Patience: Dark Souls pvp is much more slow-paced than you’d expect, but that doesn’t mean it’s boring. It asks you to be careful and take your time, because one mistake and you might die. Every weapon can stun you and leave you vulnerable if you take too many hits.

Knowledge of the enemy, the weapon and the spells he is using. If you can afford to trade blows with him judging by the poise the enemy has.

Knowledge of movement. How can I backstab/avoid being backstabbed? How can I exploit the weaknesses of the weapon wielded by the enemy? How can I make up for the downsides of the weapon I am wielding? How can I avoid the spells the enemy is throwing at me?

Everything is clear and HIGHLY telegraphed (almost no spell has less than 2 seconds cast time). That’s how an ANIMATION based gameplay should be.

However, said that, I think the problem lies in TTK. I don’t think the solution is just to gut it to 10 seconds, which is still crazy. But it shouldn’t be of 5 minutes either.

However, I don’t think “fair” duels on open spaces are balanced either. In those fights ranged damage is king (and mesmers are everywhere).

Arganthium.5638:

redslion.9675:

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Howevwer, IMHO not hammer nor bow warrs are more towards A tier: they lack cc and aoe+easy condi clear through cleansing ire. They do one thing: rush and deal damage. They are stll strong, but not an all-in-one build anymore.

Other than that, how you define glass warriors? Are they only the ones with low armor and little condi removal and immunities or just the ones with little immunity/condi removal (example: no cleansing ire)?

Asking this because armor is definetely not the thing that most defines a warrior’s squishiness (Hambow has an unimpressive -to a warrior’s standard- 2400, 2500 above 90% health, but is one of most surviable warrior builds due to being able to afford 3 stances)

Hammer warriors might be more towards A tier after the recent nerfs (high A tier though), but LB should be a staple in almost any warrior build that isn’t glass. It’s amazing for condi removal, has a huge Fire field AoE, provides much-needed range, and has some extremely useful non-auto attacks. Warrs, however, can build to be an all-in-one if they want, which is why I wouldn’t change my choice for #2 in S tier.

To me, a glass warr is one that tries to get large spike/burst damage through maximizing Eviscerate, Volley, and/or Kill Shot damage.

So I might agree with the Hambow evaluation, but I wouldn’t bump it down much lower.

Yeah, sorry, I forget that I’m the one trying to nerf myself.XD

So it would be something like S-Hambow/Condi war, A-Sustained damage half-tanky builds (not hambow and without 3 stances), B-Burst centered ones?

However, I agree hambows are too good for how simple that build is. And that is the bane of the class: warriors should be simple to grasp, yet challenging to play effectively. Giving them easy access to range and cc makes them both easy to grasp and easy to play effectively, ruining the game for everyone.

Harper.4173:

Burst. Poison.
Terrible suggestion.
I’m really tired of seeing these types of threads from people with a l2p issue.

As a warrior in spvp, I’m tired of such simplistic suggestions.

The fact that poison counters signet in a particular way is plain wrong.

The fact that PERMANENT poison might be a counter for warrior because it almost negates the regeneration the class bases its strength on is debatable.

And I’m also dead tired of what this forum has become.

We just debate whether some aspect of warrior is OP or not, without reasoning.

I haven’t seen a discussion about new spvp builds since mace/shield + GS and then hambow were introduced.

This forum has been the first victim of those builds.

The second has been our pride in making the class work. First it made me fall in love with the class, and now strips me away from all the pride playing it.

Locuz.2651:

Which isnt the case atm. Conquest isnt intuitive enough. Its isnt focussed on killing and playing defensive to avoid kills. Its a totally different mindset if compared to traditional pvp and to real “esports” games.

It might be why when I solo q (I should be around 80-90% at the moment, haven’t been playing for a while so I decayed a bit) I always feel like my whole team is trying to win, but all we do is make gambles and hope for the best, without a clear idea on what needs to be done in order to win (except from the obvious “hold points”). I don’t experience whole teams fighting off points anymore, but sometimes you just go to points that might be takable hoping it’s enough.

Atherakhia.4086:

Just because conditions in this game are blatantly overpowered doesn’t magically mean Warriors aren’t overpowered too.

Healing Signet is very clearly overpowered and any sane discussion on the subject always ends the same way:it needs to be nerfed.

Now that said, most sane discussion on the subject of Warrior balance also recognizes the simple fact that if Warriors didn’t have Healing Signet and/or it was nerfed, the class wouldn’t hold up at all and would need adjustments in other areas.

Most people know the class has its fair share of problems and that Healing Signet is the thing hiding this fact. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that Healing Signet needs to be nerfed but the class needs to be buffed in other areas.

Hell, the Warrior community and ANet have had the discussion numerous times about how the Greatsword needs to be buffed because the weapon is so awful, but it’s also the most complained about weapon for balance because of all the mobility it provides.

There’s room for give and take here.

Morale of the story: warrior class is a mess.XD

However, IMHO it wouldn’t be that bad if healing surge wasn’t built in a wrong way:

what I mean is that it was built around the idea that its adrenaline mechanic was a plus, when it actually is a drawback.

It doesn’t help you by refilling your adrenaline: it punishes you if your adrenaline bar isn’t full yet with lower hps. And is more vulnerable to poison, because you can’t just use cleansing ire before it.

The idea that comes to mind is to just remove all adrenaline mechanic (no dependance on level, no refilling) and make it heal for max heal. That’s it, a big, dumb, slow heal which is on par with other classes’ hps.

IMHO, though, it’s also a wonderful class when made right, because at its core it follows the rule “easy to learn, easy to understand and easy to counter = hard to master”. When people say it’s easymode because you can play it with only 2 hours of experience, it’s not because the class is at its core easy to play, but is because it’s easy to understand. Which means that is also easy to counter.

Then the problem comes when a class is uncounterable.

It’s not true that Healing Signet is weaker against poison.

It might be true that poison damages a warrior in one of his main strengths, which is health regen. And that might be a big thing. And considering how things went in the meta, you’d be facing something a bit more similar to a pre healing signet buff warrior. Except they now have Berserker Stance.

If it wasn’t that the classes that perma poison (necro, engi) are also the ones that already had a bad match up against hammer warriors, even before the buff from healing signet.

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Wait, how is that possible that PU mesmers are better than shatter ones? I’ve never seen a PU one in soloqueue due to their reliance on stealth.

Howevwer, IMHO not hammer nor bow warrs are more towards A tier: they lack cc and aoe+easy condi clear through cleansing ire. They do one thing: rush and deal damage. They are stll strong, but not an all-in-one build anymore.

Other than that, how you define glass warriors? Are they only the ones with low armor and little condi removal and immunities or just the ones with little immunity/condi removal (example: no cleansing ire)?

Asking this because armor is definetely not the thing that most defines a warrior’s squishiness (Hambow has an unimpressive -to a warrior’s standard- 2400, 2500 above 90% health, but is one of most surviable warrior builds due to being able to afford 3 stances)

style.6173:

Arganthium.5638:

I’m basing my list on the strategic value of various builds in team comps overall as well as their value compared to other builds that attempt to complete the same role they do. I’m also basing this off the average skill level of players.

S Tier:
1. Hambow warrior
2. Any other warr that is not extremely glassy
3. Engi point assaulter
4. Engi point bunker
5. Spirit ranger

A Tier:

6. MM Necro
7. Condi Necro
8. PU Mesmer
9. Bunker Guard

B Tier:

10. Shatter Mesmer
11. Non bunker, non DPS guards.
12. DPS guard
13. Glass warriors
14. D/P thief
15. S/D thief

C Tier:
16. Rifle engis
17. Power rangers
18. Burst eles
19. Non burst, AoE support, area denial staff eles
20. Non D/P or S/D thieves
21. Power necros
22. All other types of eles

I’d say this is the best list so far.

Wait, how is that possible that PU mesmers are better than shatter ones? I’ve never seen a PU one in soloqueue due to their reliance on stealth.

Or activate it and interruot it with the sheathe hotkey.

It’s a widely known issue and common to all signets.

Sol.4310:

Team Arena Meta Builds.

God Tier:
1. Healing Signet

S Tier:
1. Warrior (LB-H)
2. Engineer (Conditions/Power Nades/Bombs)

A Tier:
1. Ranger (Spirit)
2. Thieves (Power)
3. Necromancer (Conditions) < Warriors make there life hard.
4. Engineer (Power)
5. Guardian (Bunker)
6. Mesmer (Power)
7. Warrior (Bunker)

B Tier:
1. Thieves (Condition)
2. Necromancer (Power)
3. Guardian (Power)
4. Mesmer (Condition)
5. Ranger (Every Other Build)

C Tier:
1. Elementalist (Every Single Build)

Wait, you mean warriors are what is holding the signet back, and that one day it will rebel against its owners to become the lord of PvP?

Signetnet.

lchan.2169:

redslion.9675:

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

There are no 5-10 seconds fights in pvp.

How often in sPVP are you fighting alone? You should be moving in pairs at minimum. If you go off running alone, then you deserve to be dropped in less then 5 secs.

Not even when focused you last 5-10 seconds. In a group fight.

And in spvp there are many 1v1s, like in far point assaulting at the beginning of the match, or 2v2.

I can’t see your point: are you saying that signet is useless when ending in a 2-3v1? Everything is useless there. Are you saying it’s useless in group fights, 2v2s or 1v1s? Too bad that group fights are not that short, and some might say signet is better because you don’t risk to be interrupted by cc spam when focused.

lchan.2169:

I have no idea how people can think HS is OP. It amazes me. When you are going at it, you want to be using a heal skill that when activated gives you highest instant heal. Not some helling that ticks a few hundred a sec. Does kitten in a 5-10 sec fight.

There are no 5-10 seconds fights in pvp.

Oxygen.5918:

Kagamiku.9731:

A good player is going to make sure he is able to activate his heal when poison is not on him.

Which further reduces their HPS (waiting on cooldowns = less healing) or wastes condition removal on something that isn’t pin down.

Woops, though. It seems I have momentarily forgotten that these forums were an ultrabiased cesspool of lewdly deflated intellect. Bye bye now! Embrace your stale 1-skill meta!

If you are perma poisoned, it won’t make a difference. Only if you can cleanse the poison on demand while the enemy can reapply it pretty fast it does (you create only a small window). I don’t think such occasion exists.

And even then, to cleanse condis we’ll need to spend adrenaline in Anet’s mind, thus making Healing Surge weaker. Lose-Lose situation.

The idea about Healing Surge is that its Adrenaline mechanic was meant to be a plus, when it’s actually a drawback for most builds. And one of the reasons why never spending adrenaline wasn’t seen as such a bad idea before cleansing Ire, mace and signet buffs.

If the enemy has a few low duration poisons, you won’t lose much. But in that case, it won’t be a big deal with the signet either.

So I agree with you. See? Not all warriors are the same.

The REAL situation where a burst heal is better than the signet is when they are used in fights that are really short.

Problem is those fights don’t exist.

And some might argue this is why warriors used to be UP. They shone when fights were short, but even before June all meta builds had endless ways to prolong a fight, making warriors pathetic.

This means raw hps has always been more important than burst healing.

IMHO the real problem is that hammer traits lay on the same line that gives toughness and condi cleanse.

Put the hammer traits somewhere else and things will go differently.

And/or make Healing Surge heal always for max healing, then make healing signet do something else for passive and generate adrenaline + heal at a lower hps for active. That might probably be decent, too. The most powerful heal should be active, and the other heal should have adrenaline generation as a plus, not as a hindrance.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arkantos.7460:

Caffynated.5713:

It’s in the middle. It’s not a complete faceroll class like thief …. just spams things off cooldown.

who is more facerolling ….. ingi with his kits, f1-f4, weaponskills1-5, permavigor, shrink, condi immunity, eliteturrets; CCs and kitchange/weaponchange again , again , again, see ya couldowns
the thief?! …. limited Initiative, 1-5 weaponskills, no rdyup skills at weaponchange, no knockdowns/knockbacks, much less conditions variety, 35 sec steal, no immunity to anything?!?!

so which class has to bring on more skill and tactic ….

Thief.

I remember what people say about s/d ones, though. That they are some other cheese.

Almost every class has its low skill builds. And some pretty kittenes (for instance, try to build a full damage zerker warrior with no point into Defense Tree, no endure pain, no cc. Even with healing Signet, I can assure it’s pretty hard playing with only 2100 armor when you always have to stay melee…).

Blame the build, not the class!XD

Then I’ll make my duty to show all those FoTM rerollers how old warriors play.xD

Maybe I should try SD engi again, but it allows so little variation…

Arganthium.5638:

That’s fair. Still though, the truth of the matter is that the mathematics does in fact favor examples like the ones I mentioned above. For example, I just measured the benefit of 1000 power versus 1000 precision with 50% critical damage in my spreadsheet. The absurd truth is that while 1000 precision (52.1% critical chance) will amp up your damage to ~143.7% of what your current damage is, 1000 power will amp up your damage to ~213.7% of what your current damage is. That’s pretty much exactly a 70% difference in damage. That’s massive. And that’s not even rounding down on the precision (a process I don’t do because it simply makes the entire process infinitely more complex than it already is; I can just get rid of points of precision until I get an integer value for % critical chance. Usually not that much of a difference though).

This is how this game actually works; you can have a decent amount of critical damage, and precision will still get completely blown away by power.

Well, it depends on how much power you already have.

If you have 2000 power, the damage increase by adding 1000 power is just +50%, right?

I agree that, in general, Power is the main stat you have to raise, and the main reason why Barbarian’s Amulet is subpar.

And there is also a problem about tradeoffs:

as a sword war, for example, spending 30 points in arms and getting blademaster gives me +510 precision when wielding a sword, that might be better than +300 power.

So power is king, even if it’s not always clear how you have to build to get optimal damage.

Divinity.8041:

A win is a win, for the other person to complain about how that win occurred?

Don’t hate the player, hate the game, in this case, I hate GW2.

To anyone complaining about OP classes winning? It is the equivalent of the IRS giving out a $1,000 USD tax rebate to anyone who applies. If you think you are too prideful to take that rebate because of said reason, don’t hate the people who have nicer meals and garbs than you.

Just because you don’t take advantage of the current system and lose, doesn’t make you arrogant or better…it just makes you stupid for failing to adapt to what wins.

It would be like you continuing to produce model T ford cars, out of pride, when a ford fusion is clearly a better, more logical option.

Don’t get on your soapbox and explain to me why my ford fusion is an abomination, and I am using “cheese” just because you choose to not adapt in an ever changing economy and world.

All is vain.

You have to take into account that some options might stop you from developing as a player, though.

Surely, voluntarily gimping yourself feels awkward.

Arganthium.5638:

redslion.9675:

Well, with Unsuspecting Foe I can make FT a guaranteed crit.

And, better than that, it might definiteley be important. For example, I might down someone before he heals.

Yes, you can. But having a guaranteed crit with a +20% damage boost from power and 200% critical damage still isn’t as good as having a 50% chance of getting a crit with a +100% damage boost from power and 200% critical damage. The averages still work out in favor of power. Not to mention- if you have over 50% critical chance from precision prior, then you’re actually wasting the benefits of UF, which wouldn’t occur with power.

You might also do enough damage to a person to make his/her heal worth using, or you’ll do too little damage to down an opponent before he/she heals.

Yeah, obviously I’m talking about not so high differences. Like the one that stays between 1800 and 2000 power (I usually try to stay above 2000).