Guild Wars 2

Lokki.1092:

Unparalleled means having no equal just like your quoted definition says. Being the complete worst means you have no equal, being the complete best means you have no equal they are both unparalleled.

Unparalleled does not mean best. Something can be exceptionally bad, or incomparably horrid, they are not necessarily good terms, he was right. Though you could assume Anet did mean it in a positive light.

Not sure if English is your first language but unparalled is synonymous to best. It’s not used as a neutral “no equal” definition and it does not apply to the other end of the spectrum as you define it to be. It implies “no equal” because by definition it is “the best”.

Should’ve stopped reading after “trait that gives 3-4 initiative on stealth” but the skill list did remind me of something in my experience playing a Thief.

The CDs for utility skills in general are too long. I’m guessing the concept of the Thief was “hit (hard) and run”, so the profession is given access to huge burst with spammable initiatives at the cost of longer utility CDs but this doesn’t exist anymore. Anet nerfed damage and traits like mug so a lot of WvW thieves actually play P/D and S/D as much as D/P or D/D but neither of the former gets the benefit of burst yet suffers from extremely long utility CDs. Roll for Initiative and Shadowstep seemed particularly ridiculous. And the Thief really can’t seem to afford the traits to reduce CDs either, unlike my (kitten) condition Mesmer that had both range increase and CD reduction for Manipulations.

PS: P/D offers an interesting playstyle for the Thief but is extremely lackluster, obvious to counter, and uncompetitive. So if Anet can reduce utility CDs and fix P/D, maybe I’ll go back to playing Thief instead of Engi. Or maybe you can fix Engi first…?

It works with stealth, regardless of source.

No queue, EB or BL doesn’t matter, small 20 man zergs, not even a SM 3-way kittenfest, yet enough skill lag to make it extremely frustrating to play an Engineer.

Obviously not just me, so don’t bring your “I’m fine” crap, the only explanation is that the servers are totally kittened from the last update or the servers are downgraded and resources pulled over to sPvP. And just a few weeks ago a lot of the BLs were totally kittened, wtf did you screw up this time?

This was not happening even when culling wasn’t fixed unless it actually was a SM 3-way kittenfest, yet now it seems to be happening regardless of peak times because the server just feels like it. Even when I’m solo roaming and there are no orange swords up anywhere in the BL I get enough skill lag to constantly make me double-check if I’ve actually switched kits or not.

Maybe this is the reason why there’s so many rangers in WvW now. 11111

Iruwen.3164:

ExZee.8109:

Obvious troll post is obvious.

Yeah, so why did you post it at all?

Throw the Q right back at you.

Every other class has the same problems. Anyone that claims otherwise, L2P other classes. So you don’t like running after you get owned. Don’t get owned.

This particular suggestion is extra kittened, since the OP wants a fully automatic perma-swiftness with a 10 second CD. No other profession has anything close to this out of combat.

Obvious troll post is obvious.

Former Mesmer playing Guardian/Thief/Engineer now.

Answer is no, it’s not going to get easier. Engineer is a fun class only because you’re doing 10x more button smashing to get the same effect as everyone else and the skill comes from how well you can get your rotations off. Much different than an immortal/phantasm Mesmer that spams illusions and kites in ez-mode waiting for the opponent to die. The limitations of the Engineer class is pretty glaring if you play WvW; never will you really be able to win against more than 3 players, even if they’re noobs, since you don’t have any consistent stealth for target dropping nor stability (them Rangers will pew pew you down nonstop). Also means you can’t really run away either since Engineers don’t have any teleport or distance skills (except elixir #4…). Overall they have a terrible potential limit compared to other classes.

Once you’re pampered with stealth there really is no going back… Non-stealth professions are great if you run in a group/zerg but have terrible survivability once you’re caught out in the open alone. Thieves and Mesmers can easily kite 5+ and get away, sometimes even managing to get a stomp or two. Personally, my fun in playing Engineer is knowing that I have the handicap.

Huck.1405:

There IS a test server. It’s whatever server you play on and the changes are tested there after being patched.

Cool, I didn’t know we were unpaid test gremlings for Anet. Actually, I think I paid to be one.

/another one that has no idea what a test server is.

Arganthium.5638:

I’m arguing that no matter what ANet does, it will likely result in a bug like this if this is their intention, and is unlikely to be fixed any time soon. Just look at Shadow Trap.

Furthermore, that was only one in six arguments that I used. So thank you for your nonsensical reply.

You expect anyone to read that wall of text? lol.

So basically what Anet has to do is fix the buggy pathing that came with today’s update and all problems are solved.

But of course Anet making their typical mistake is the opportune time for the common forum thief to argue to bring back what they intended to fix in the first place. Great logic thumbs up

Good question.

WvW lag/crash issues make me wonder if the rumors about the servers being downgraded since launch is actually true…

chronometria.3708:

Why is it that we are all equal, but that some are more equal than others?

Does this even make sense?

Challenge failed.

Yeah… Try throwing grenades as an Engineer before talking about anything related to Retaliation. Even against one person it’s just too much sometimes.

+1 for internal CD. Or nerf it like they nerfed confusion.

Some of the dungeons could use a reduction in tokens required for armor at least… I go on gw2lfg and I see 4 listings, of which 3 are over 30 minutes ago. And of course the one group I do get into is huge fail and take 2-3 hours when normally it would be done within 30-40 minutes.

Doomdesire.9365:

Counter stealth by dodging CnD. It’s a simple concept and if you conserve your dodge you can be fine.

Honestly… No. This is the absolute worst advice I would give to someone combating a Thief.

Most players dodge at least once while the thief is in stealth to try and avoid BS. Of course if you see a “Miss”, the natural instinct would be to dodge again. That already puts you at half or zero endurance, while a thief comes out of stealth with no Revealed debuff with no initiative penalty so he can simply CnD again.

Let’s assume you take the BS damage and have to interrupt his rotation by avoiding his CnD.

BTW, if you’re complaining about thieves being “uncatchable” that’s kind of the point behind the whole class. Being able to escape is the core design behind the thief. It’s frustrating, but not OP.

You dodge his CnDs, he’s out of iniative, but now you have this problem where he can’t really stealth again (scoff right here there’s still plenty of ways to stealth), but he’s so “uncatchable” that you can’t really do anything to stop him from resetting the fight by running away.

Basically, you contradict your own advice and it’s such useless bullkitten because it’s all I ever heard when I didn’t know how thieves worked.

This is exactly why I suggested that the OP play a thief to understand how it works. You don’t counter stealth by dodging CnD, you counter his rotation by dodging CnD, just like you counter the rotation of any other profession by dodging. Unless you’re a heavy CC spammer or zerker geared to instagib him after one stun you’re simply not going to counter his stealth enough times to leave him vulnerable for the kill. The core of the problem players have with thieves is in not understanding a thief’s rotation (aka how it works), and much less to do with dodging CnDs.

PS: Mesmers can’t dodge CnD because the thief will just CnD on our illusions but the good ones still have no problems killing Thieves.

I’m guessing you’re unconsciously putting distance because you’re holding a staff. Get up close and personal is the right answer. GS#5 shouldn’t be an excuse; the CD on that skill is looooong.

I’m no guru on Engineers, but I don’t think burn, immob, and cripple can beat reflect + aoe knockback + blast finisher + block + stun + daze. The options are simply incredible with just 2 skills. In fact, I’m having trouble mastering the two skills because they’re so flexible (do I reflect now? do I save it for the kd to interrupt stomp? do I get an extra heal? etc etc).

But in the end I guess it’s more of a playstyle issue. I haven’t sincerely given P/P a try yet.

Tuluum.9638:

I agree with a lot of what you said, except this portion. I found thief to be one of the easiest classes to succeed with in any game I have ever played. It is the only time I have ever actually deleted a fully geared, capped character in any MMO I have played.

They are very, very simple to succeed with in the vast majority of encounters. “Mastering” them is a bit different, but even then, is lower than many other classes imo. Its just an easy class to play, which I dont necessarily view as a negative thing, as it may be taken by most. Its just not the class for me.

I agree with your suggesting of rolling a thief to learn more about them though. It takes very little time to actually learn what makes them tick. So, for just a small bit of time invested, you can save a lot of frustration. edit: Of course, you are still probably better off just leaving a fight with most thieves, as they will just waste time that you could be using to take a camp, sentries, take out siege, etc.

Me saying the combat mechanics is brilliant doesn’t imply that it’s easy nor hard to play. That’s really a balance issue which is dependent on numbers, not mechanics or it’s just plain skill difference. Unfortunately, I can’t say that the combat mechanics of other professions is as well thought-out as the Thief, which might also be a factor.

Of course ultimately the best way to win a (troll) Thief is to not fight one, but it’s easier said than done when you’re caught out in the open alone versus Anet’s intended most mobile profession in the game.

Honestly… Play a thief. I think Anet did a brilliant job with the thief’s combat mechanics but the consequence of that brilliance is that the hurdle is so high you’ll never really know how to counter them unless you actually play one to understand it. Since the thief is always the initiator, every other profession is more or less forced to play a reactionary game, which means you can’t react to something you don’t understand.

I don’t recommend thief youtubers since they’re nothing but big egos and don’t actually understand the other side of the combat vs a thief (as a non-thief class anyway). Probably where most of the thief hate comes from IMO. Since you’re an Engineer, if you have some free time I suggest you check out the videos from Koroshi. He explains what he’s thinking in real time while countering thieves as his Engineer and he used to main a Thief so you can see how he plays the reactionary game.

Ugh. Read comments, watched video with high expectations, what a let down.

Typical big ego poorly edited IPwnNoobs.

It’s interesting, enough to actually want to try out (since I’ve been thinking about a rampager build before I stopped playing my Mesmer), but I think it does need a bit more tweaking.

The only thing I want to point out is that your rotation isn’t as efficient as it can be. Normally you want to start out with iMage right as you enter the 1200 range and decide if you want to Prestige or Confusing Images defending on what profession the opponent is. Normally I tank the first few hits on purpose to get iMage + Confusing Images, then block, then dodge (exactly 3 illusions here)+ CoF for 14 stacks of confusion. Then Prestige, swap weapons, iSwordsman while still in Prestige, Illusionary Leap, dodge (3 illusions again), swap + Blurred Frenzy + Mind Wrack. But then again the rotation would have to be different if you want more vulnerability stacks rather than confusion stacks, since you’re traited to go for either. But then again again that’s what makes this build interesting.

Though it’s really only good in theory. On the battlefield is a completely different story. You need some better 1v1 vids and some 5-man roaming teamplay to show what it can actually do solo and as a group.

Walls and trees so you can LOS the kitten out of the illusions.

Other than that, you’re not beating a profession that’s OP in 1v1 unless your skill level is Goku and the other guy is Krillin.

I’ve been playing a GS/S+F Guardian lately and kitten they can’t run for kitten. In the end, you most likely have to swap weapons when you’re OOC for swiftness so I don’t think Mesmers have the worst end of the deal when it comes to lacking ooc movement speed. But keep complaining, as it’s the one thing Anet will listen to and make a priority for future changes (cough confusion cough).

The most recent figures and NCsoft dude’s announcement for “monitoring” the right time for an expansion release has all the correct implications of a decreasing population. If you can’t figure it out yourself by deducing the implication from the data that is given, and can only cry for evidence to be spoonfed to you while not even knowing how to use Google, then your cries for denial are much more doomed than anyone making the claim that the population is (probably) decreasing.

If the population wasn’t decreasing, the devs would continue working on polishing the game instead of the next hyped expansion. And NCsoft certainly wouldn’t enter the “monitoring” stage as was already announced.

Now, how much brains does it take to understand population decrease =/= the game dying

Ralathar.7236:

I see alot of fear or portal hate and nerfs. However I do not see any information or suggestions. I did not say it should be nerfed, just that the current counter-play was extremely limited (a single option apparently) and sucks for the side that has to sweep.

So, I’ll try again:

How do you counter Mesmer’s in Tower/Keeps other than simply sweeping? Keep in mind that people do make Mesmer parties specifically so they can stay stealthed.

Read the entire thread over again.

Instead of the kitten supply traps they should’ve put in an anti-portal trap. Make it cost +/-50 supply, a zerg can use it after they take a tower and no portals can be placed within AOE for 1 minute.

If a Mesmer stayed alive for over a minute after a trap’s been placed then he deserves to port a zerg in there.

Nuff said.

/15characterkitteninglimit

Be very aggressive.

I played Vindictus for over a year and that game was sort of pay2win. It’s a kittening grindfest even if you bought services that gave extra loot drops on bosses, to the point it was necessary to get to be on par with the average playerbase. But the stat increase was minimal; it was all about getting the latest armor set for the visual appeasement. All these new schemes strongly remind me of Vindictus, only players are probably spending more on this game than it, simply because GW2 allows you to show yourself off to more players in PvE/WvW.

Kind of a personal story there, because I quit Vindictus after getting sick and tired of more or less being forced to pay to enjoy the game.

I don’t see the point of using a condition build in PvE except a very few exceptions so power would be the way to go, no matter what your profession.

As for WvW, I think a lot of people prefer condition builds because it’s safer. You never know how many you’ll end up going against by yourself and a power build just doesn’t allow the kind of balance between damage and survivability like a condition build. Power builds you have to be putting out damage skills or you’re not really doing any damage, while a condition build you can use gear shield while your conditions wear the enemy down (for example). On top of that Anet wants to slow the game down (aka burst nerfs, quickness nerf) so the flow of combat will naturally favor condition builds even more.

Also, the stats/traits is a big one. Generally speaking, power builds require power, precision, toughness or vitality, and % crit damage to make a build work. All berserker is all or nothing in WvW. On the other hand, condition builds only require precision (%chance conditions), toughness or vitality, and condition damage to make a build work. And then there’s this gear set called Rabid…

Thread getting trolled by one of the biggest forum thieves. Hits and runs better with his text than with his thief.

modDW.4187:

I made this video for someone else, but maybe it will help give you some ideas for fighting thieves. Guardian naturally counters thief, as we have access to a huge amount of anti-burst, but you need to learn the mechanics of thieves to take full advantage of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgAgqcgdZ5A

Hope it helps

It’s a good battle, but I don’t see your point being made that guardians are “natural counters” to thieves. You actually do get bursted quite a bit, just not enough to kill you because you’re a bunker and they invested out of power. The only “natural” counter I see is the occasional aegis (which a staff +/- trait Mesmer can out-produce by a lot) and a ridiculously long vigor and retal where one requires skill to utilize and the other is simply a boon many other professions can also have.

IMO the thief is the natural counter to guardians, as guardians require boons gained temporarily for survivability at the sacrifice of a naturally low health pool, which in turn allows well-timed or lucky bursts to be more effective than against other professions. But as your video shows, concept and practicality are irrelevant on the battlefield.

I wonder if going through the trouble of putting up a thread makes people feel better when they leave their servers at their utmost convenience, and at the server’s utmost inconvenience.

But then again these threads always smell foul of guilt.

Manuhell.2759:

Except that those 2 weapons are weaker than normal ones (as per class design) and those toolbelt utilities are, usually, really much weaker than normal utilities. I mean, these are the ones on kits…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Mist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Ammo
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Wrench
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Barrage

Only the last two are really worthwhile, and yet they have some drawbacks (delayed activation in the first case, dispersion in the second – and you need them to be traited anyway for the full effect).
And these are the ones on our weapons. The ones on turrets and utilities are usually even worse, mostly because the utilities themselves are kinda weak in account on having an associated toolbelt skill.

This is where “Oh you get to have extra toolbelt skills on top of kits so the class is fine” just goes straight out the window. Me on my 4th day as Engi can see how useless these skills are; anybody who claims otherwise have either never played an Engi or never uses them because they’re noobs too swamped with kit swapping.

Considering how the ENTIRE turret traits are not even working, throw wrench is personally the biggest joke of all.

Yes come to JQ, the PvE server. We only get outmanned when there’s new PvE content or farmable content.

Stego.3148:

regardless of how you got it, a fused weapon sends the message that you gambled 100$ of RL money on it. Legendaries while purchasable with RL money still have an element of farming and in game pride. These things will be released regularly so Fused weapon is the first of many many one time skins that have to be gambled for. Unless you are a Dubai prince or something you won’t be able to obtain them all so just get whatever you want. No one at any time in the future will care if you have a fused weapon I promise and it doesn’t make you look more elite ever.

They all look average (preference is irrelevant, that’s the truth). If they were on a dungeon token they would would be one of the least popular sets. Not to mention that’s one single weapon on one alt.

This man doth spoketh the truth. th~

Yet another example of exactly how much testing is done before something is implemented.

Thumbs up.

Imagine the kind of trolling you could do with 5 thieves instead of 2. I bet you could even troll T1 zergs.

But of course, the forum is filled with skilled players that laugh at the idea of themselves getting trolled by such cheap(?) tactics. Like they’d never be a victim.

tolunart.2095:

You can buy precursors/legendary weapons on the TP so people complain because you can just buy them with in-game currency.

You can’t buy fused/eyeball weapon skins on the TP so people complain because you can’t just buy them with in-game currency.

Makes perfect sense.

Hilarious how a person could argue like this. How hard is it to use one’s brain to realize that people are completely different people from people?

Apparently for some, having our individual brains all hooked up to the same matrix somehow makes us the same people. Makes perfect sense.

Awww i-spent-hundreds-of-dollars-on-an-online-game here wants to justify his gaming expenses. Failed when he tried to argue the definition of gambling, rather than sticking to the issue of legality.

Bubbles slapped him real hard though.

Completely legal gambling (with real money!). I wonder how many hardcore PvEers start shaking their hands when they’re not playing.

Gambling is bad kids. Don’t do it.

Awesome suggestion.

/liked

I have a female Norn Guardian and I was devastated to find out too late that the armor skins are just absolutely terrible. The only ones I like are HOTW and Vigil skins. Just one more character I regret not making Asuran.

I read this as an obviously justified complaint of a natural consequence of a well-predicted outcome of the fail patch that nerfed confusion.

More power Mesmers; what did you expect would happen?

It’s really a very very small threshold for whether Blurred Frenzy is OP or not since it doesn’t do much by itself unless you follow it up with a 6 clone shatter with a high power, low toughness gear setting. And well thieves are just thieves.

But in the end, it really just comes down to skill

jportell.2197:

Oh go to spvp threads and see just how many people think necros are sooo underpowered… As a Mesmer I know that isn’t the case… And since the confusion in wvw can still be affected by foods number for number its more powerful than spvp. Just saying.

I don’t quite see the logic of you going against the majority by saying confusion isn’t as terrible as they think, then telling me to go do the same about Necros. My entire point about Necros is to dismiss that train of thought in the first place, so why would I go read up on minority opinions to try and reach the same conclusion as you? And well, Lemongrass > Rare Veggie Pizza; I can equally say confusion in wvw can still be affected by foods number for number its less powerful than spvp. What’s your point? I even said it in my first post – comparing sPvP and WvW is trash logic, and nobody playing WvW is going to think “well it’s better than sPvP, so everything is fine”.

Why do I feel a very strong dejavu between this post and my first?

jportell.2197:

Honestly confusion isn’t as terrible as people think… in pvp I got 22,671 damage on my target…. We just have to specc heavier for it now

Because people thinking with WvW in mind have nothing to do with people playing sPvP. Just like Necros are hopelessly useless roamers in WvW, but dominate sPvP. “It’s fine in sPvP, it should be fine in WvW” and vice versa is trash logic.

Palu.3405:

ExZee – Thank you for your feedback, but I’m not sure you fully grasp what this build is about. First of all, some people like the Mesmer and enjoy this particular playstyle enjoyable. I for one am content with having massive survivability, even if I don’t get kills as frequently as others might. I also think you are mistaken in concluding that this build can only kill “noobs.” What this build lacks in burst, it makes up for in survivability, and as such, with patience one can bring down most players. If you don’t have that patience or want more burst, then I absolutely think you should try something other than this build because this build is not for you.

Also, the second video is now uploaded, featuring a 1 vs Many scenario. I’ll post the other two later today.

lol naw, I only know too much what this build is about, since it’s pretty much THE build I’ve mastered for over 7 months. It’s the poor man’s attempt at trying to do damage without heavy confusion pressure/burst using a variation of FLIMP’s build, and with patience you might just kill yourself out of boredom from how long a single fight is going to take. Even before the confusion nerf, 1v1 or even 1vX against good players took me forever (or was a complete stalemate) because 1) they were smart enough to not take confusion damage 2) they simply ran away to reset the fight when they were low hp, since the condition Mesmer has no stopping power and 3) they were using Lemongrass. The only way to kill a fellow condition Mesmer using similar builds was to be better at bursting confusion. Using the sword over the scepter was a huge sacrifice to damage, which any good condition Mesmer realized, and now it’s simply become the preferred choice since the scepter literally does no damage. The word “patience” you’re referring to here is the kind that would make a road rage driver into a Buddha, and I’ll just leave it at that to put your usage of the word into perspective.

As for the other guy, Lyssa runes on this build is essential because it’s the only other one of two condition removals that this build has. The other comes from utility and anyone worth posting in a build thread should know by now conditions are the condition Mesmer’s greatest weakness. A P/D Thief doesn’t make the same sacrifices for getting +bleed duration runes, so your “ala P/D thief style” comparison isn’t exactly fair nor comparable.

And the issue of burst was never compared to with a P/D Thief. The lack of specifically mentioned confusion burst was to compare the condition Mesmer to itself between pre and post nerf, not to compare it with another profession. Reading comprehension is your friend.

I don’t normally post on build threads but all these attempts at trying to be a condition Mesmer without confusion (and those with is even more lol) is just… sad. That video is definitely within top 5 of the most boring GW2 gameplay videos I’ve seen so far and against any good player the lack of burst is simply fatal.

I was a (real) condition Mesmer since I started playing GW2 but I knew where to draw the line after this kitten nerf. I buried my Mesmer (sigh… I really did love my condition Mesmer) and made a P/D condition Thief and trust me, P/D Thieves can stack more bleeds (and hit harder) than a staff Mesmer with 3 clones. Not to mention condition Engineers can stack burning/bleeding/poison/+ other non-damaging conditions much better also (and hit harder). Random bleeds/burns just isn’t good enough to be competitive without solid confusion bursts. Have fun killing noobs though.

Honestly, confusion should’ve been THE Mesmer condition. I had a huge ? on top of my head when Engineers could put 10+ stacks faster and with more efficiency, on top of being able to put pretty much every other condition available as well. Now the nerf in damage makes it incredibly hard for condition Mesmers to compete with condition Engineers, as well as compete against power builds of other professions.

They will ultimately have to balance this by giving us more conditions (which would basically make us more like Engineers) or giving us the new condition (which makes Necromancers AND Mesmers less unique). They could make condition duration boosts and Illusionary Elasticity apply to clones, but I’m sure people will QQ it to death like confusion. But ultimately they will have to do something to make our condition builds competitive again.