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Bounding Thieves

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

after I see other op abilities on the other classes… well… nvm

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

It's time to nerf thief mobility.

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Giving thieves a Cd on weapon skills defeats the whole class concept.

Like it defeats the whole class concept for rev who was supposed to have shorter cd’s on weapon skills than other classes due to energy cost on them? Or the utilities that were supposed to be cd free? And yet here we are. Thief deserves to get slapped short cd’s on their weapon skills. This is called equality.

If you like equality, than coefficient should also equal.

Rev has average 3.2~3.4 power coefficient and it is simply double or triple from thief

If raise every thief skills like that, I’m sure you’ll gonna cry more

It's time to nerf thief mobility.

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

We had a long period of time were thieves weren’t particularly viable due to people not knowing how to 1 vs 1 on thief, but more importantly, the fact that they shouldn’t be 1 vs 1ing on thief. Thief’s job was decapping and pushing far, +1’ing with fast rotations, and sniping distant enemy team members in team fights. Thief benefited greatly from its mobility, and it needed that mobility in order to do the things it did.

Now, after many consecutive buffs to thieves, things are starting to get a little ridiculous. Thief used to counter necro and mesmer only, and that was fine because as stated before, 1 vs 1 was not it’s role. Since the numerous buffs, Thief now easily wins against revs, scrapper, maybe even some ele builds, while having an insane amount of teleports and easy access to stealth.

Thief currently has the best of both worlds: insane mobility, and insane damage. For both wvw and pvp, it has become broken. I’m not wanting the class to be useless, but here are my proposed nerfs: Short bow 5 reduced to 900 and 5 second CD. Unhindered combat swiftness and condition clear given an ICD of 5.

I understand it is important to the class to maintain mobility, and that’s what the profession is based on, but it really sticks out like a sore thumb when in pvp a thief respawns and in 5-6 seconds he’s at mid, kills you in 5 seconds, and then is off to the next point. In wvw it’s even more silly. A thief can just run into 40 man blobs and troll, blink 5 times and never get touched. Thieves are responsible for the endless tapping and desieging of keeps because again, it’s as easy as applying stealth then using 5 blinks.

Best comedy since donald trump

+1

Condi Thief fixes ideas

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Look at my signature. Condi thief is viable. And not just D/D death blossom.

lol players you opposing looks like kitten with the other hand while one hand pressing keyboard.

Druids are overpowered in wvw

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

ya as op as druid is made out to be (it is pretty amazing) I still see fair representation of all classes when in wvw. I find it hard to believe that many people are so proper about not rushing to pickup the next op thing. If druid was so op it just had to be nerfed hard trust me, there would be like a 5-1 ratio of them in wvw because that’s probably the ratio of people who have no shame when it comes to winning.

That’s because druids are only strong in small scale and most of the people are just here for the blobs and ppt.

And these are the people that come to complain about dying to druids.
“I died to a dueling build on my staff ele, please nerf”

Easy now, was just about to post that. Yesterday I got my pixels beat up by a thief, while fighting a RANGER too, on my staff ele build.

It’s not fair that the thief can stealth over and over and over, while eles don’t have any reveal and their staff skills are so slow. Where is my ele version of double 10k vaults hmm? Am I expected to run DD for another 4 years to be even remotely competitive? Where are my stealth skills? Can’t even make use of runes of the trapper because we don’t have traps… Why is it that thief gets ultimate stealth PLUS ultimate mobility PLUS ultimate burst PLUS have access to make these super condi builds that melt you? Eles have low hp too so why don’t eles have similar movement skills to run away better? Where is my ele condi bomb build so I can laugh at my opponent frantically trying to run away while their hp are ticking out?

Speaking of condi, where are all my super condi clears? It’s not like the meta hasn’t been all about the condi for a long time… Would stand to reason that eles should get equivalent condi clears to other classes like necro and guardian and warrior and druid, and go into stealth like thief while removing condi too lol… It’s not right that thief can just layer stealth plus condi over and over and over while I’m standing there unable to clear or run properly…

And through the whole fight the druid was nothing more than an annoyance, it took the thief to kill me… Go figure… Nerf OP thief.

Edit- and the Druid was running that supposed “cheese op” builds people are complaining about too.

I checked, “See all messages by Swagger.1459”
because I remember saw you lot of times in the ranger forum before.
Do not disguise your self to ele fellow ranger, don’t try any dirty tricks.

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(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Druids are overpowered in wvw

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Also, as an aside, and I’m not calling out druids in particular, could people that main a class please stop with the just straight denial of broken stuff. Play 1 other class at least, and if you don’t maybe look at your response and ask ‘is this biased’? If something is overtuned in WvW it affects all of us, I get my ‘mai class is mai class’ but please, Anet clearly haven’t got a kittening clue about WvW balance so just discuss instead of straight white-knighting. We don’t want Glorious Leader to be confused.

Funny thing is when you go from playing a ranger to pretty much any other profession you feel like the game just got put on easy mode. All of a sudden you have roughly the same sustain but 2-3 times the damage.

This is the most funniest comment ever i’ve seen 2016

I mean druid is soooo hard to play right? I mean druid skill rotation and play style is extremely easy and forgiving.

Most of people who main druid always think they are playing the hardest profession which is not true they heavily gets carried by the profession and build it self and they usually play the bunker/condi cheese as well as they play so bad when they get to play other professions.

and no thief only rely on evade and stealth and stealth has so many counters nowdays which means evade is the only clutch to save thieves. If u ever duel a same skilled level of druid vs thief, thief has no chance of winning thats how it is and thats not a l2p issue. In order to beat druids with thief u have to 100% outplay them to get them down.

yet Druid? superior short cd’s on weapon set skills . mobility on gs or staff , good healing , regen , 1200~1500 range kiting , easy access to stability and might boons , can stealth , good damage.

Druid lacks nothing, None of other professions can access all of that and all those druid main tells everyone who disagree l2p so funny lol

i mean I can play druid for less than 50 hours and can still compete with skilled roamers easily thats how it is low risk high reward.

Easy access to stability! How many times do I need to have my SotP interrupted by daze and fear spam before it’s considered hard lols.

Getting interrupted is not just a druid problem though and it changes nothing about them having too much for what they sacrificed.

The comparison to the old cele ele is a good one. Except druid has even better healing and condi cleanse on top of mobility and access to stealth… and a pet… Even getting to 25 might is easier to do.

and don’t forget 9k damage HoT pet skills!

Druids are overpowered in wvw

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Gibimo.2193

And here’s another qq thief

I have every profession, I like to switch things up on a regular basis to keep things fresh and to stay up to date on how to fight every class.

The bunker druid build (which I don’t play) is about as effective as the evade spam thief (or a dueling build on any class), except the thief still has a strong burst. Unlike several other professions (warrior, engi, etc.), the bunker druid scales horribly outside of 1v1’s because it is sustained damage and it relies on pet ai.

The only valid complaint in this whole thread is that they are boring to fight, but being boring doesn’t make them op.

I tried to kill a pretty good bunker druid with another guy – we had no chance. After us was an evade spam thief who also had no chance. All Elites are pretty OP but druid and Berserker are on top of that chain. Druid might even be a bit above Berserker. And it doesn’t really matter how the class scales. And btw: Every class has as least equal if not higher burst than a thief – Deceiver always has got some 20k backstabs which I have never achieved and never received, the common backstab is around 8-9k, coalescence of ruin12-16k, arc divider 13k and so on and so on.. I thought you played every class?

Every class has as least equal if not higher burst than a thief – Deceiver always has got some 20k backstabs which I have never achieved and never received, the common backstab is around 8-9k, coalescence of ruin12-16k, arc divider 13k and so on and so on.. I thought you played every class?

+1

Druids are overpowered in wvw

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Druids are OP in wvw.

Seriously some of class like druids , condi mesmers , condi trap thief makes wvw extremely boring and unhealthy to play

Totally agreed.
honestly, I play those class. just started for know how to counter them.
as result? no counter. those are overpowered if played properly.

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I play druid, thief, guardian and rev for pvp and wvw and yes.
Druid is currently op along with guardian. and the weakest is the thief

What makes druid particularly juicy as a target to interrupt is that his pet is right there to get interrupted too. So if you interrupt him and his pet, with mistrust that’s an easy 8 stacks of confusion shared between them for the double interrupt

Good times.

~All things relative.

Problem is, I always got 3 stacks of stability and pet is gonna evade every attack while using smoke assault. and I don’t even spend a minute to kill a thief.
just simply send pet -> cloud -> wisp in -> swap GS -> bash -> turn on ‘protect me’
-> maul, swoop -> even if the thief trying to steal or break stun and attack me, pretect me is activates and additianal 2 seconds of stun for certain death.
but this is not particular for thief but every other classes include bow rangers.
and you can even remove several burst condi bombs there you have trooper rune and lots of shouts and celestial form, which is make you almost invincible to condies

If you playing bow ranger, try Staff/ GS or Sword, Warhorn/Staff ranger
It is just OP at 1vs1 and even easily capable with 1vs3

A G-well with a null field will strip that stabos and turn the rest of that to kitten.

It only takes one chain of interrupts with a little bit of stripping to end a druid. And a Chrono has two tries at it.

Of course, if the druid can somehow survive it, then he’s got all his kittene to tide him over.

first, even if you double g-well, you’ll fail to catch druid in it because each tick of grav-well takes only 1 stability, so 1 stability is still is remains and druid won’t catch inside of null field and he will simply walk out of it or dodge it, and soon, stacks gonna refilled.
After that, druid will dodge your mirror blade and give your head to his pet for dinner

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

i played support druid all season all the way to legendary and i can sya their hard to kill but not OP… direct counter to us was high burst high spike dmge .. bt first u need to set up well ur interrupt/cc then unload ur burst/spike and will be 100-0 in secs.. in an instance in a legendary match trap guardian zeroed me in 3 secs.. when he set his 3 trap with dragon maw that can daze me then set the cd trap again and burst me.. trap guard of can set up can unload 6 trap in 3 secs… the question is when will anet try to stop the spvp of being a guardian wars 2!

PS. thats when he caught me unprepared and my pet was on bristle back and i went ahead! but yeah our melee pet can ruin all the trap set up when we knw whats coming! its just an instance of how i got zeroed in with chain CC.

yeah only guardian could do that insane amount of damage so i called it op
yet druid still need some adjustment

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I play druid, thief, guardian and rev for pvp and wvw and yes.
Druid is currently op along with guardian. and the weakest is the thief

What makes druid particularly juicy as a target to interrupt is that his pet is right there to get interrupted too. So if you interrupt him and his pet, with mistrust that’s an easy 8 stacks of confusion shared between them for the double interrupt

Good times.

~All things relative.

Problem is, I always got 3 stacks of stability and pet is gonna evade every attack while using smoke assault. and I don’t even spend a minute to kill a thief.
just simply send pet -> cloud -> wisp in -> swap GS -> bash -> turn on ‘protect me’
-> maul, swoop -> even if the thief trying to steal or break stun and attack me, pretect me is activates and additianal 2 seconds of stun for certain death.
but this is not particular for thief but every other classes include bow rangers.
and you can even remove several burst condi bombs there you have trooper rune and lots of shouts and celestial form, which is make you almost invincible to condies

If you playing bow ranger, try Staff/ GS or Sword, Warhorn/Staff ranger
It is just OP at 1vs1 and even easily capable with 1vs3

A G-well with a null field will strip that stabos and turn the rest of that to kitten.

It only takes one chain of interrupts with a little bit of stripping to end a druid. And a Chrono has two tries at it.

Of course, if the druid can somehow survive it, then he’s got all his kittene to tide him over.

yeah everyone loves to stay in null field and jumping inside it lol

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

druids are trash. Only thing that makes them broken is celestial shadow. Reduce stealth from 3 seconds to 1 or remove it all together. Leave superspeed as is. Rename celestial haste. Done.

even lots of pro players and high tier games prefer druid because of its mobility, burst damage, heals and team supports.
If you think that druids are trash, you are stupid or else you are trying to deceive other people because you worried for druid got nerf

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I play druid, thief, guardian and rev for pvp and wvw and yes.
Druid is currently op along with guardian. and the weakest is the thief

What makes druid particularly juicy as a target to interrupt is that his pet is right there to get interrupted too. So if you interrupt him and his pet, with mistrust that’s an easy 8 stacks of confusion shared between them for the double interrupt

Good times.

~All things relative.

Problem is, I always got 3 stacks of stability and pet is gonna evade every attack while using smoke assault. and I don’t even spend a minute to kill a thief.
just simply send pet -> cloud -> wisp in -> swap GS -> bash -> turn on ‘protect me’
-> maul, swoop -> even if the thief trying to steal or break stun and attack me, pretect me is activates and additianal 2 seconds of stun for certain death.
but this is not particular for thief but every other classes include bow rangers.
and you can even remove several burst condi bombs there you have trooper rune and lots of shouts and celestial form, which is make you almost invincible to condies

If you playing bow ranger, try Staff/ GS or Sword, Warhorn/Staff ranger
It is just OP at 1vs1 and even easily capable with 1vs3

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Druid OP?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I play druid, thief, guardian and rev for pvp and wvw and yes.
Druid is currently op along with guardian. and the weakest is the thief

Block, invuln, block, block, invuln

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Warriors are much easier to kill on S/P than any other set in my experience. Use 2 and dodges to make them waste their mobility skills, spike with pistol whip when they can’t easily escape or chase you. Pressure with headshot, kite after each spike and wait for their endure pains to expire. If anything, stealth is a hindrance as I find warriors waste more cooldowns trying to catch a thief they never lose sight of.

Bandit’s defense is also a must. Just don’t go near a warrior unless you have this ready.

pistol whip never spike someone if he isn’t braindead
that’s why you can’t see S/P thief as meta

Can we up the damage on BS?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I rather one shot by other thief, if I could burst someone to blow up with right combo moves

Can we up the damage on BS?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.

I already said it: The damage in wvw is already really high – it is a bit higher (~1k) than before June 23th 2015 – our vitality hadn’t gotten any higher though, so thieves can already “one shot” each other even if they’re not running signets – it would be stupid to buff that even further. When it comes to against other classes (than Ele and thief), then maybe you have a point but even then; rather nerf their sustain than to buff BS.
When it comes to pvp that’s a different scenario.

I remember on some stream a year or so ago they said they don’t know what to do with thief.

And as usual it would’ve been better they left it alone.

yeah that is gonna give more risk when against thief, but not every other class only thief.

And here we are, how weak thieves are. they can’t blow other class yet they could still one shot each other. which is mean low damage, low survivability

Can we up the damage on BS?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Can we up the damage on BS?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Daum, I haven’t seen that kind of damage since 2013. Can you teach me how to do that.

Its sacrifice every one of your survivability, and put it on the damage.
and if you fails you have to run unless you’ll gonna see enemy dancing on your deadbody. and saying that making example for that picture doesn’t make anysense.
any people who is not braindead would see thief has maxed out sigils and running for the full nuke, and simply dodge it. If you likly to show that picture and saying BS don’t need any damage buff, in other way it could say it needs damage nerf which is completely make thief dead.
you should compare power coefficient with other profession’s skills as normal build as spvp sets

GW2 = Guardian Wars 2

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

as a person who plays multiple classes but mains a necro i highly disagree.EVEN GUARDIANS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEM BEING OP.

I am not complaining, I can beat any symbol guardian/dh in like 30 sec with my normal traited DH (gs + lb). Guardian just cant complain of being op cause we got 1 buff in like 3 years and guardians are overwhelmed by it. Buffing is something strange to us.

Could be worse. Want to get nerfed in 99% of the patches for 4 years straight? Roll a thief.

Honestly Cynz, a well played thief is still insanely OP.
Stealth, unmatched mobility, high burst, instant kill elite that skips downed state etc
The nerfs to thief were justified

Stealth – easily countered by reveal, counter stealth, block, aoe, invr, passives

mobility – now druid, rev, mesmer can catch up thief, other class can one shot to blow the thief off

high burst – really? every other class even druid could deal higher dps and burst damage in pvp. Make sure our enemies are not a gonna stand like a dummy while thief is try something

instant kill elite – its only available if you ever, ever able to kill someone, and even if you did, It just too easy to countered. in matter of long cast time, everyone is gonna focus while you are performing it

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

GW2 = Guardian Wars 2

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Arena Net even said Guardian was in a bad spot, which is the reason for it being upgraded a little bit ~.~

Well.. anet is never wrong about balance. We all know that.

Its okay to say they’re too weak but we can’t say they’re too strong huh?
Just look at anets track history: They’ve overbuffed classes multiple times and have had to tone them down (usually overnerfing) in later patches.

But again, since its YOUR class than its all fine and dandy.

I agree if you meant pre-expansion, but after that, Anet wrong pretty lot of time about balance. just note that you didn’t see op class on the right person and the right hand.
If you go legendary division you’ll gonna change your mind

Should Mug be able to crit?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

What is the point of comparing Mug crits from 4 years ago to the meta now? Back then thief also used to have pretty strong 1v1 and large teamfight potential yet look where we are now.

Here’s a post-HoT screenshot for you.

Mug has a 20% higher coeffient than CnD.

It would be stupid broken, just as it was back in 2012.

This screen shot was taken on a full glass build vs a full glass target with 15-25 stacks of might. Blowing that target a kiss from this build would hit for 4.5k… xD

I know the guy that posted this, ~18k hp is not really glass. Pretty standard as far as thief roaming builds go. He may have had 5 might maybe 10 at most. I’ve had him mug me for 6k before actually buffed out (without signet assassins signet active) . If mug could crit, he’d be doing it for 17k. Think about that for a second, 17k mug. He’d literally mug 90% of most peoples health.

Steal is a pretty loaded skill without traits. Then you can augment it to be even better with traits like mug. I don’t think crit buffs to mug are what will make the class more reliable. We have a tone of skills that are really low impact, and issues landing hits with all the passive defenses going around. Maybe those are better areas to look for buffs as we already have tones of damage in the thief kit.

6k mug is nonsense unless you are upleveled

Backstab Delay

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

learn to play skillfully rather than frantically smashing your keys?

Yes, because a 1 second delay on a skill which is only avalible in stealth implies skillful game play in a meta where blocks, invulnerability, aegis, blind, passives and Dodge spam is at its peak. Do you feel stupid now?

Anyone can push buttons. A skillful person pushes the right buttons at the right time while other people just try to smash all their keys as fast as possible.

Enemies are not idiot they can also push the right buttons at the right time
If you haven’t met some players that fully capable of counter thief, you are not that skilled to say like that. If you meet that kind, then you just proved you are wrong

Should Mug be able to crit?

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

It would be ok and not gonna be OP.
If you only see the outgoing damage, your making mistake.

There are tons of blocks, auto trigger invulnerable, active invulnerable, and passive heals and active heals, in addition, protections and out source damage reduction.

Now, is too much different from the past it can’t be compared with screenshots like
2 years ago

And you can see the other class could easily out damage thief with their easy hitters
like, precision strike, rocket hammer, shatter, ranger’s smoke scale skills, true shot and traps, head butt, arc divider, etc

These are easy to hit and comes with very high reward(about 5k damage)
which is result with enemy’s dead body.
It could burst out a foe or pressure to force them to use utilities, heals
so fight against them requires high alert about those skills.
Yet, you could think like this.

“Thief has high mobility that makes initiate anytime.”

yes, and thats why thief has low hp and low defence, so counterblow could be deadly.
So… crit on mug wouldn’t be a problem anymore

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

SA Trait: Stealth on AA-Chain

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

And also it could make synergy with “Revealed Training” which is currently useless

SA Trait: Stealth on AA-Chain

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Gibimo.2193

It not gonna be OP because your constant auto chain could cause “revealed”. Which is mean when you really need stealth, you may unable to do, because of that auto revealed

steal could be 'obstruct'

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

steal is not projectile so it shouldn’t obstruct

shadowshots miss even when it hits

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

shadowshots dagger hit is often miss even infront of the target
and target is not moving at all

Tier list (for now)

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Regon plays guardian. And you seem like a thief player – facerolling all day, killing everyone easily, but afraid to get broth down to power of other classes, because you enjoy playing OP class.

Just saying… if a Thief kills a Guardian, it’s not the Thief’s fault. Take that as you will.

Actually thanks to previous patch.. Guardians have a rough time with Thieves now… there’s no way Guards win vs power Thieves in 1v1. Best chance we have is an F1 pull inside ToF, which is rare considering their evade abilities…

I have no trouble killing thief with guardian.
My 2nd most is still guardian and its solid counter for thieves

Tier list (for now)

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

let’s talk about your division and your whole pvp expereince before we talk about tier list

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Magnetite Exchanger on lions arch typo

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

There should be Chest of Medium coats instead of two helm

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Frustrations with lead attacks and our HP

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Can someone explain to me why every teef uses lead attacks now? Teeves seem a lot stronger (not a bad thing)

Seems you never played thief.
It because lead attack is belongs to trickery as minor traits.
and trickery is too much essential for thief, all thief has no choice for other trait lines.

it's not thief's role to engage in duels??

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Gibimo.2193

Rev sword

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

does it still track down the thief ‘after’ it stealthed?
if it is, that would be another problem

Dodging while using utility cause immobilize

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

1. Move ahead somewhere

2. Use movement utility skills (etc. withdraw, lightning reflexes)

3. Spam dodge while skill is performing

4. You can use skills but your face locked and unable to move just like immobilize for several seconds (you can jump tho)

  • It could happens anywhere

could it be key stacks?
I hope it fixed ASAP, its very annoying while in the situation that I should dodge multiple times.

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Nerf Backstab

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

sucky map awareness made another baby.
cry more but your mama won’t come
and I still prefer my dragon hunter

Thought it gonna last longer

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

and you just said that shadowshot is evadeable.
so dodge shadowshot and face tank headshots. and count it for 4.
EZ

Thought it gonna last longer

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Headshot costs 4 initiative so it can be cast 4 times in a row with 15ini (includes ini regens) so dodge it two times and block it two times. and so thief is out of initiative and unable to do something. burst to kill it after that. stop crying you can’t dodge or block it just about 4 times. even ember players did that.

Reaper vs Daredevil

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

DareDevil should keep flank and stealth burst run when facing a reaper
daredevils on your videos are kitten.
good thief will shadowstep out until you out of shroud and don’t give you chance to regain lifeforce

Autoattack Damage Buff's Effect on PvP/WvW

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

…Also any 2v1 scenario is going to be death if it’s against half skilled thieves.

It wasn’t before.

My initial spike of damage is unchanged, and I’m moderate at best.

Light armor: 11-14k opener.
Medium armor: 11-13k opener.
Heavy armor: 10-11k opener.

If two thieves are attacking in rough tandem and applying pressure as they should, only necro/warrior would survive the initial burst. I dunno what thieves you were fighting against, but if they got greedy to stick around to be counter burst they probably weren’t very good.

actually most case of skilled player scenario is

‘saw a thief from far’
dazed ‘oh i got stealed’
dodge
counter burst combo

or

’I’m a DH’
stand on the trap
stomp on the dead thief

Autoattack Damage Buff's Effect on PvP/WvW

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

or you could came for 1 tier wvw server so you could see lots of other classes
because thieves are not much of a uses in many versus many

Autoattack Damage Buff's Effect on PvP/WvW

in Thief

Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

zerker thieves has 11k HP so any damage could kill it.
Its the same as thief and thats why i’m not running zerker thief in wvw.
when after marauder came out for pve stats, almost everyone has 17k hp
and even 10k spike damage is just not enough to kill someone before they react.
if you couldn’t react in 0.5 second or less you shouldn’t run pvp or wvw.
or you should pay more attention cuz you go there for intend to fight with others.

(edited by Gibimo.2193)

Autoattack Damage Buff's Effect on PvP/WvW

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

could someone died to zerker thief? really?
That kind of unskilled players could killed by random mobs on wvw field lol

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I think we can all agree off hand dagger needs a gimmick and one that will help p/d s/d and d/d but what is that Gimmick?

It can not ignore that there three weapon sets that are in fact suffering nor do I personally think duplicating something one of the other two helps a lot.

Now s/d might see a bit of a boost come tomorrow and we might well see more s/d but we also have to realize if the gimmick something that does too much to help s/d relative to d/d , then s/d could become the nect d/p.

P/d in my opinion is in as bad a spot as d/d. On the server I play my own wvw on I certainly see more d/d power users then p/d thiefs.

I think we should just wait a bit, see the changes that happen tomorrow, measure the impact they have on exisiting x/d sets and then rethink from scratch.

yeah I can’t agree more for that off hand dagger need a gimmick.
I think the main problem of off dagger is its stealth is too passive and defensive.
It needs effective gap closer for main hand to use it properly and requires high skills to use it aggressive. which is directed to the pressure problem.
thief can take some defensive options but not like this.

I don’t think gimmicks would solve the problem. Then you just end up with spam.

I disagree completely that OH Dagger’s stealth is passive and defensive. You can’t just reset a fight and sit in stealth at a distance licking your wounds like you can with D/P; you need to play aggressively in order for the skill to land to get the stealth. The problem is that getting this skill to land is dreadfully difficult with all the invulns going on right now, and D/P’s control is just so much better that once it’s engaged it functions better in melee from a defensive perspective via BP and Shadow Shot’s fast blinds, and interruption on Headshot.

The big question is how to make D/D effective while not gimmicky/spammy for both its power and condition options, and to define a style and purpose for the set that isn’t just objectively better/worse than D/P.

I agree. but to make sure gimmicks wasn’t meant to make D/D stealth spammy.
Thats too drastic.
There could be better gimmick which is not spammy and also solve the problem.

Thief QQ

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

…Mesmers complain when they try to beat Thieves at the only role they are capable of while Mesmer can fill multiple roles and provide group utility…

That’s a nice little fantasy you got going on there, here is the reality – for the vast majority of this game, thief was perma meta, taken on every single team and best solo carry in the game, whilst mesmer on the other hand was much of the time one of the least represented classes in teams (read non-meta), required a thief to babysit them, had mesmer mains rerolling thief as even as a mediocre thief they were more use, and only ever had one role for the majority of the game’s life.

I never was questioning that Mesmer was crap, but Thieves have had only one role, and provide no group utility, while Mesmers have had the option to group utility, the biggest issue they faced was trying to replicate the Thief role, which they should fail at since they can provide so much, Thieves have been relegated to decap because even if they +1 they hardly had an impact unless their team was winning to begin with, now with the Chrono Trait line Mesmer still have multiple roles they can fill but are strongest at group support, yes their group support took a hit but still lowering every teammates CD is still pretty big.

The kitten is our support?
Portal?

Have you actually used portal in PvP? It’s not exactly easy to use it effectively.

Oh, and look what forces a mesmer to use portal just to survive.

Yeah, thief…

P.S. Not trolling the thief forums, just saw a post and had to respond.

go back to your forum or shatterd
unless you trying to discuss some constructive feedbacks instead of QQ shatter QQ

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

I think we can all agree off hand dagger needs a gimmick and one that will help p/d s/d and d/d but what is that Gimmick?

It can not ignore that there three weapon sets that are in fact suffering nor do I personally think duplicating something one of the other two helps a lot.

Now s/d might see a bit of a boost come tomorrow and we might well see more s/d but we also have to realize if the gimmick something that does too much to help s/d relative to d/d , then s/d could become the nect d/p.

P/d in my opinion is in as bad a spot as d/d. On the server I play my own wvw on I certainly see more d/d power users then p/d thiefs.

I think we should just wait a bit, see the changes that happen tomorrow, measure the impact they have on exisiting x/d sets and then rethink from scratch.

yeah I can’t agree more for that off hand dagger need a gimmick.
I think the main problem of off dagger is its stealth is too passive and defensive.
It needs effective gap closer for main hand to use it properly and requires high skills to use it aggressive. which is directed to the pressure problem.
thief can take some defensive options but not like this.

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

No one ever complained about me being in their zerg – for a reason.

sure no one have a rights to do that.
but still, there is efficiency.

Alright, the other day – we were at Anz, fighting a blob (being a blob ourselves) – then the third server came from SM behind us – unfortunately our commander died. He WPed and came running back – the rest of us were holding the zerg on the Bridge anz/SM. Our commander came from the left with a few who didn’t make it the first time around. I saw that he was at 5% health but he hasn’t been targeted, so he wanted to “hide” under the bridge on which end I stood. I saw it and jumped when he came in range = stealth (because of cis), meager heal. About 10 of us ran from under the bridge into the back of the enemy blob and defeated them.

I guess that’s why no one complains – I might not have the strongest class but I’m good at what I’m doing.

I’m mostly not in TS btw – I have to guess what the commander is doing – and since I’m used to it it works really well – in fact mostly better than if I were in TS (I tried) – only thing I’m missing is that I don’t know when to blast waterfields.
And that very commander and I push at the very same time – ideal, really. Yes, I run frontline if it makes sense.

ETA: For those who don’t know:
5 enemies: Group
~10 enemies: bigger group
15-25: Zerg
35-90: Blob

We were around 50 each in that case.

and btw just blast water field when you see it
it’s placed because its called

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

No one ever complained about me being in their zerg – for a reason.

sure no one have a rights to do that.
but still, there is efficiency.

Alright, the other day – we were at Anz, fighting a blob (being a blob ourselves) – then the third server came from SM behind us – unfortunately our commander died. He WPed and came running back – the rest of us were holding the zerg on the Bridge anz/SM. Our commander came from the left with a few who didn’t make it the first time around. I saw that he was at 5% health but he hasn’t been targeted, so he wanted to “hide” under the bridge on which end I stood. I saw it and jumped when he came in range = stealth (because of cis), meager heal. About 10 of us ran from under the bridge into the back of the enemy blob and defeated them.

I guess that’s why no one complains – I might not have the strongest class but I’m good at what I’m doing.

I’m mostly not in TS btw – I have to guess what the commander is doing – and since I’m used to it it works really well – in fact mostly better than if I were in TS (I tried) – only thing I’m missing is that I don’t know when to blast waterfields.
And that very commander and I push at the very same time – ideal, really. Yes, I run frontline if it makes sense.

ETA: For those who don’t know:
5 enemies: Group
~10 enemies: bigger group
15-25: Zerg
35-90: Blob

We were around 50 each in that case.

a mesmer could do the same stealth role with better options
and it can stealth entire zerg

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

No one ever complained about me being in their zerg – for a reason.

sure no one have a rights to do that.
but still, there is efficiency.

Please Nerf D/P

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Posted by: Gibimo.2193

Gibimo.2193

Shadow Shot over shadow strikealso has that blind and is unblockable. Great chase down skill. Someone near death and running this kills more often than not.

only teleport part is unblockable

Cynz is right which is wrong usage of shadow shot eventually make yourself killed

I said this kills a fleeing enemy more often than not and such has been my experience. I have rarely died because of it.

You won’t take that lot of time to chase down the bunker unless they all run out of cooldowns and heals. Simply its waste of time and efforts if you facing good players.
They will try to bait you and shooted by shadow shot and dodge to avoid damage.
And you’ll see you have a mark on your head and other zerkers coming to kill you.
And the last point you should remember is good zerkers will never stay alone.
so you can’t have that much offertunity in fair match ups with good players

Not my experience. I am talking wvW. I have been there for years. People run and they tend to scatter. Pick a target and kill him. Generally these guys are running because they used all their heals . When those other zerkers show you have your utilities/skills to stealth.

There are also those that will run away in a group. You do not chase those. It really not hard to see the field of battle and see which peoples remain disciplined and retreat in order and which just break down and scatter. I am also well aware of the thieves that will linger on the edges of battle hoping to jump someone pursuing another.

That said I have also ported right into a clump of enemy to down someone blind and got out. If you move fast you can get in and out. Just do not do such a thing when they surrounded by AOE rings.

Oh and I do not play zerker . I can take hits and still hit hard. Interrupts with PI traited are devastating . Daredevil runes with Sigils of intel work wonders. The saving on precision can be invested in a little more vitality/toughness. This will become even better post patch with harder hitting AA.

Seems like we are looking at the very different point.
I was talking about spvp just because thief has very few options to choose in wvw.
Well, you can enjoy it but that doesn’t means you are useful as other classes.
but yes, still each class has a roll in wvw and so as thief.
But even though thieves are not essential, especially when you zerg.
My friend was a commander at JQ but he doesn’t like thieves at all.

And In spvp, zerker means kinda little different from normal.
Its more like ‘damage dealer’ because zerker amulet was the most common for damage dealers. just to make sure seems you didn’t know that.