Given how bursty everything is at the moment, the only real defense is to not get hit.
Try a condition mesmer, all the stealth allows for many resets while conditions/clones chip away at the opponent.
teams need to be built evenly (so 1 doesn’t join blue leaving red outnumbered) from the start.
It should be impossible to join opposing (spectate) team unless auto’d.
Auto balance needs to happen much quicker
Please, no. Other condition auto attacks should take a lesson from ranger sb and follow it, the concept of an auto attack easily applying a DoT is terrible. Try cleansing that burn and poison when you got bleeds being reapplied in high numbers…… at least crossfire takes a little thought.[/quote]
Well SB needs help, they need to either allow for multiple damaging conditions or drastically up the bleeds ie: every 2-3rd auto or something from the front.
Remember the auto attack in a cond build hits for around 150 lol
You obviously didn’t play the SB before the animation fix… If you did you weren’t paying any attention to the amount of damage the SB was doing before the animation “fix”.
[/quote]
Im going to guess this is why there are (still) positional requirements on the bleed.
Same with the pet, the 1 min cd was the same when rangers could heal and rez their pets in combat.
Edit: bleed on hit would be way op imo, maybe every 3rd attack if hitting from the front
I see you’re point OP.
Its pretty sad that the only team utility Rangers have is useless.
There are currently 0 highly competitive ranger builds; I don’t understand it either, but then I remember the state they left ele’s in for what, 1yr?
@Fester,
True, though personally I feel Sw/Dg is almost compulsory for defense.
Sword /Torch can work, but Sw causing loss of control of character means I almost always spam the evades then use the disengage and kite till ranged weap is off cd.
Axe/Dg + shortbow can work, but you’re missing out on a large section of defensive evades + poison.
So while we do have access to other conditions, im not sure the trade off is worth it, kinda stuck with sub optimal proff design idk.
Yea shortbow can work in WvW due to sigils but in pvp you’re trying to stack 1 condition that will be cleansed vs any build with decent cleansing/ teams that cleanse for each other before it does good damage.
Shortbow needs to be able to apply multiple conditions, woudn’t be as much of a problem if spirits worked in this meta but they dont.
Maybe instead of more bleed on 4 it could be torment and change spirits to auras that cant be killed (burning)= shortbow that works well again (if traited for bleed on crit and spirits, which seems fair imo).
Edit: Ranger needs some splash damage as well so maybe give SB auto the same chance to bounce as a thiefs pistol
I kind of agree, power rangers can do tons of damage and if you don’t have a proff on you’re team that can quickly close the gap and shut them down then they will quickly sway a fight in their teams favor.
So they can be too strong in unorganized play while being easily shut down vs an organized team playing meta proffs, not a good place to be.
No other builds are really good imo, as other posters have pointed out, cond is single target (and wont kill meta builds), spirits die to aoe spam, BM has terrible ai.
Only time I’m on ranger anymore is for trap stealthing in WvWvW and lets face it, even the trap build is only good because of the runes.
There have been a lot of good ideas on how to shave ele’s and engineers.
The most obvious imo is to give eng cc longer cast times and some animation, this may push players into a more cond based build in which case IP is a problem(with Balth runes), so maybe increase auto attack of pistol/bleeds and reduce the proc/ give the proc an icon so you know its about to hit and if dodged it’s lost? (see warrior adrenaline change)
For ele’s its a combination of too much burn/healing/blasting, all 3 need to be shaved. Its really lame to know that if the ele coming at you is played well, it wont be beat.
These proff’s also have amazing (ele) to great (eng) utility, making them indispensable to a team but this is another issue altogether lol.
Celestial isn’t about bunkering, it’s about high damage everywhere. There are more deaths in this celestial meta than at any point in this games life span.[/quote]
Tbh op, I’m not sure this game should focus on esports.
Like most mmo’s it’s more fun to play than it is to watch. There are several reasons for this:
1) complexity of the action/ aoe spam/instant abilities and limited point of view makes it difficult to follow, even for a vet who knows what each proff is capable of.
2) There will always be best and worst builds so that highly competitive teams will start to be mirrors of each other and much of the action takes place when choosing you’re team comp.
Best route for Anet is to simply make the game fun and diverse; so if node capture favors certain comps and builds, then make a map that would help to even things out, Alterac Valley (before the nerfs and rush to kill lord) for example.
I know. I know WvWvW, but AV was more complex , which gy to I flip?, which tower to retake/ hold, do i fight in mid, which npc? Do I help to summon Ice Lord? Was a really epic BG before bots and nerfs. Isle of conquest was another interesting one.
By just making the pvp aspect fun and interesting I think Anet would be heading in the right direction.
I do see you’re point op.
Anet needs to find the balance point between making good generalists for content like soloq/hotjoin/wvwvw and strong specific roles for more organized play tpvp and they obviously haven’t yet.
There have been several good posts on how to shave ele and eng without gutting the celestial amulet (and I hope they do).
That being said, this game has too many instant abilities/ broken mechanics to allow for a power/zerker meta without sidelining the majority of proffs imo.
Currently the only zerkers are thieves and mesmers (barely). Without large alterations to most proff’s, this isn’t likely to change and I’m not sure watching the above 2 classes insta ganking each other would be much more entertaining than what we have now.
I woudn’t mind if it was 3v3 or even 2v2 but as a ranked map it has a lot of shortcomings.
In conquest, you can get around being completely outcomped in a team fight with a few sneaky decaps, this isn’t possible in CY where you’re always in a team fight.
Opponents have 1 AH guardian and 1 staff ele both with mercy runes, supporting 3 dps vs you’re pug? Out of luck, enjoy that 500 to 20 match lol.
In a pug v pug the best call target wins
Ello,
I haven’t played spirit ranger in ages but as far as heal goes, I’m pretty sure a heal that can die isn’t the one you want.
This build is still largely for team support or as you pointed out home bunker, so healing spring is you’re best bet imo.
Mobility is a problem with rangers, there’s really nothing you can do except use utility/runes, both require giving a lot up.
Amulet, its really w/e you’re most comfortable with, you can bunker home by being offensive(carrion) and forcing a retreat or more passive (settler’s) and hope for reinforcements.
Spirit ranger’s are pretty hard to play these days, so much celestial aoe spam and so many nerfs to the build.
It’s still nice to see that spirit of nature popped in a team fight though XD
Fine,
Then could we at least get some mocking laughter as you’re punted from gy into enemy zerg?
Edit: almost forgot a thank you for finally making my SA cond thief and pu mesmer pwny top tier.
I still don’t understand what the problem with SoloQ & TeamQ was. You have solved so many issues that SoloQ had. Why would you remove it? I just can’t see the new Ranked Arena working out like this.
I think that Ranked Arena should be ‘Solo’ or ‘5v5’ only. I think Unranked Arena should allow everything else as well.
This, or make unranked into ranked solo q.
I mean its kind of ridiculous that the devs would solve the problems of solo q , map choice/ 4v5’s, remove the option and then create the problems that demanded the creation of a solo q to begin with.
2/x/6/6/x with axe torch sword dagger wont keep that many bleeds up outside of sharpened edges proc (2x per 36 sec) or with entangle (48 sec cd)
Condi necro is always a hard fight at best, a lot depends on when the auto cleanse happens and if the pet eats the fear proc’s.
Vs eng, it seems to really vary by skill of opponent and slick shoes f that kitteny perma cc >.< but even without that utility, a good eng with cd up can keep you close to cc’d till death
There is no reason to run it over necro/eng.
You will probly lose to a decent ele and cant stay on a point vs most melee proffs.
Yes it’s still our best skirmishing build atm, so /shrug.
A lot of really good ideas in the new patch, ready now before match begins, map vote are great.
However, solo vs team is making me no longer want to play either ranked or unranked. Honestly not sure which is worse the constant 4v5’s and skyhammer in the former system or this one.
Bring solo q back pls.
Im going to go with Hambow to deny stomps/warbaner while rest of team rezes or aoe’s area.
Necro for plague form stomp/rez or perma blind
Eng cause spam, survivability and crate
Thieves or mesmers for spike; power ranger may work here as well.
Shout heal guardians are pretty ridiculous in a zerg as well; so are staff ele’s.
Sort of a cross between conquest builds and wvwvw
omg, posting problems.
1 more try lol.
It is interesting that coding is different from the boardwalk in Temple and Khylo ? (forget title, the one with the trebuchet) (as well as roof of latter) and other structures.
Likewise JI on guardian is similar to infiltrator’s strike but different from an ele or mesmer blink.
Complicated.
Kinda sucky imo that positioning becomes largely irrelevant on said maps and proff’s with blink abilities reach a point far faster by simply blinking through the floor/roof.
Portals ok, even if very very annoying, it at least requires some planning/tactical usage;
its the short cd teleports that ignore los I was thinking of .
Can we remove the teleporting through floors/walls pls?
It would benefit the game in 2 ways:
1) It would go a long way toward making proffs without teleports valuable as roamers
2) It would allow for zerker builds that rely on positioning for defense more play.
Traps need help for sure, too many traits and utilities required while damage is easily avoided.
If trap traits were moved , it should be to stam/boon duration line and consolidated into 1 mid tier trait imo as they just don’t do enough physical damage to be part of a zerker/power build
If they did , then having traps remove cond on throw would work rly well and make up for the lack of stunbreak (or having to trait for stunbreaks).
Other good suggestions for traps that ive seen include having them grant boons on throw/ remove boons on pulse or putting all traps into a kit.
We can dream
Its a theme at this point, the only proff’s that can melee are thieves, thanks to the invis or evade spam and guardians when they have all cd’s up.
Unless you’re running as cc/fire field bot in team q, it’s pretty sad tbh.
This is not an exploit. Caltrops does not break stealth because it does no damage. Secondly, the insane amount of bleeds and cripple only apply if you stay in the AoE which you can easily dodge out of.
Hope this helps.
It won’t, but maybe it can pay off once the remaining gw2 population are normal people willing to L2P ^^
If its a non issue as you claim why make multiple posts on the subject?
Not just multiple posts, but multiple rude posts.
You’re coming across as pretty defensive for someone discussing a non-issue about a terrible build ……..
@Yolo, You’re missing the point, doing damage is supposed to apply revealed. Yet here is an ability that can be spammed close to endlessly thanks to feline grace, can do decent damage/ force an opponent to keep moving while killing pets and yet does not apply revealed.
Is it the biggest problem in the game? No, but it does contribute to the cheese factor.
I dont, but they can be an issue on a point, like a turret eng, you basically have to leave if a point is covered in them. And they can repeat ad nauseaum.
Choking gas was a well deserved nerf, caltrops doing some direct damage would be as well; either that or remove the bleeds and have it only apply cripple.
From a fairness point of view, if you spend a large part of the time stealthed and at range, you’re primary method of dps shouldn’t be dots.
As such, applying revealed on any damage, whether direct or from condition ticks isn’t a bad idea imo. It may in fact be necessary if they ever implement spvp maps that aren’t conquest.
It is an attack that does damage, so should apply revealed in the same way traps apply revealed to ranger with runes of the trapper. Could be on first bleed tick for example, or if that is too difficult to implement, then just add a small physical damage component to caltrops and apply revealed that way.
You’re making it sound like conquest, which it is, but a more complex version. To use the AV from WoW analogy, you would want to cap certain objectives, but only in order to make the final objective easier to cap (the npc general).
All the while being back-capped, re-spawn grounds changing hands and even stronger npc’s being summoned to help in mid ( Ice lord anyone?).
Complex capture the flag essentially, was pretty awesome imo (till it dissolved to zerg and bots).
Not sure if the 40 person would work in this game, but maybe a 10 or 15 person version?
Personally, I think the best option would be to introduce more complex game modes , like AV or IoC in WoW.
I know WvWvW, but I dont like working for or playing with gear/ food advantages. Besides a less zergy version would be more fun imo and the complexity would help to even out mechanics that would make certain proff’s impossible/extremely frustrating to deal with small scale (imagine 3 cond. shadow arts thieves for example)
@Billionaire
Nice to have an expert confirm this woudn’t be one of those impossible to implement features that are often demanded by players:D
@Dereck
The worse a game mode becomes the less players expect of it youknowwhatimeanXD.
It is a competitive environment so out of respect for that, Anet could implement simple measures to help create fair play.
As to the proff for AI stand in, it would have to LB ranger or Turret Eng (in team q could be swapped to AH guard or ele/eng), don’t know how you guys are even arguing this point ^-^
Well, Hotjoin isnt getting removed, nor should it imo, its a game mode for casual play.
Im not sure its possible to completely avoid 4v5’s in a casual atmosphere ( though they could mitigate spectate abuse easily enough), as they can’t keep players from coming/going.
But that dosen’t mean that they should give up on simple mechanics that promote balanced\fair gameplay
Here’s my idea:
Score from captured points reflects the # of people per team.
For example in a 4 v5, the team with 4 people would get and additional 50% per capture point, 3v5 maybe 75% extra for the duration of imbalanced numbers.
This would give an incentive to keep trying in the case of a 4v5 and to at least try and defend when 3v5
Thoughts?
I would like to give an opinion about how sic em shpuld be:
Instead of being a 1500 range instant reveal, it should be more powerful, but less unavoidable by making it like this:
Cooldown: 20 seconds Cast time: .75 seconds (same as using necromancer´s staff #1 skill) No longer requires target and doesnt end by any means other than running out of time Duration: 10 seconds Type: Shout Description: Order your pet to focus on targets , making in ignore movement reducing conditions and deal more damage. Targets hit by your pet reveal targets for the duration of the skill. Ignores: Cripple,Chill and imobilize Damage increase: 20% Revealed: 3 seconds (doesnt stack, it only refreshes if you are hit multiple times bofore the revealed expires).
Good changes, I would actually use the skill as BM, should only allow 1 reveal though
@ Relentliss
Last time I checked, zerker ammy with defensive traits gets you about 5oo per LB auto attack and 2k RF; laughably bad
Th “Don’t get me wrong! Now they have instagib setups that wreck a lot in solo q and in 1v1s, but like most medium classes, they get wrecked if focused. Can’t really disengage. But that’s why long-distance spike is in and of itself a defensive trait.”
I will agree that they have an insta gib set up, stealth, SotW, QZ, RF, which could use a nerf imo, probably through the signet, but as you point out, that’s really all they’ve got.
This isnt really balance imo, good burst once per minute dosent make up for being so easily shut down. The best comparison atm is probably to a fresh air ele, they can be hell with CD’s up but too easy to train all match when defensives are on cd (and fresh air ele’s are probably better in a team q because they can build for boon share).
One of the essential defensive problems is that no amount of good positioning will save you from meta thief /mesmer builds, still rulers of the zerker world for 2yrs running.
