Guild Wars 2

Ross Biddle.2367:

I just stopped by to drink your tears.

~Rev tears, a taste sensation!

Don’t drink them all, spread the wealth!!!

Jski.6180:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jski.6180:

Snip

Again every class has survivability cheese it’s just a different flavor, i.e. Passives that reward bad players for getting Cc’ed /bursts down, or classes with low Cd defenses that burst then cycle through their blocks/invulnerable/evades/Heals till their burst is back up, i.e. Warrior, DH, Chrono, Engie,Ele and so on, Thief to a lesser extent since no real CDs and they have to disengage and reset it’s how the class was designed Devs have stated as such.

And let’s reiterate once again if someone disengages you are both out of combat what don’t you understand about that? If they OOC to heal up guess what you are OOC and heal up as well…. it’s not rocket science.

If the remove the disengage potential of classes then they better remove all the invulns and passive defenses all classes have because those don’t promote skill at all.

Its not about removing just simply punishing ppl for using skills over and over in a spam way. Note nothing on ele is a low cd and that where i am getting the make all leaps longer cd if they do not do there ending effect “ride the lighting.”
Its silly to see classes “run” endlessly because there skills that are made for attking are being used to get away for free and where updated to not get effected by roots chill etc.. I think there needs to be a real counter to all of this.
Dodge spame as moment and perma stealth needs there own set of counters. As for high def skill they need to be much fewer and more dmg type aimed so a physical def should make you weaker to condtions dmg (non boon effect because you cant chose to not have other ppl put boons on you). Or a full invariability means you cant do any thing at all but be invaluable.

Dodge spam and permastealth do have counters i.e. Wards and Reveals…. and again if thy are running they aren’t damaging you, if they OOC you then you are OOC, you just want to make it so people are forced to fight and not be able to disengage…. also else has quite a few things to use to disengage, between RTL, Superspeed, Lightning Flash, Mist Form, Blazing Retreat and so on on top having Invulnerability it all depends on how you setup your build..

Some classes rely on being able to disengage while others rely on passives, invulns and other defenses to be able to survive/win fights each class has different styles of play, if you limit/remove certain classes disengage potential then you have to remove all the other classes survivability mechanics it’s pretty simple, now some classes like Warrion and Druid don’t need the disengages since they have very powerful Passive and active sustain and could use a shave in those areas or will have to give up a bit of their passive sustain/active sustain if they want to keep the disengage potential.

And last but not least being able to use skills in a versatile way is great game design and promotes strategic/skillful thinking.

I thought the ratings were getting a hard reset for this season, is this not so?

CrimeMaker.8612:

No ones whining or crying. We are all just stating facts and what we all expect to happen because this has literally happened every single year. As a WvW players I can guarantee that the amount kitten we have taken and handled / given no other players from game mode has ever dealt with it. Helseth made one post and video about how kitten spvp is and guess what in like 3 months spvp gets a complete over haul. Past 4 years WvWers been crying about how many things they need to fix in WvW and how much attention we got? 0000000000

Again re read my post further up WvW has received a lot of attention within the last year alone, it’s all trial and error on their side. And PvP has been being changed since s1 started they never got it right it wasn’t becaause of Helseth ranting, it was from the PvP community pointing out their prestigious League system was nothing more than grind and wasn’t competitive.

And yes you guys are whining.

What Maddoctor said

Cynova.7406:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OP

You can get a lot of Transmutation charges for absolutely free just pop into PvP or WvW and boom after a few reward tracks you can always change without worrying if you do that every so often, I change my look almost weekly between 4-5 characters and never have to worry about charges I think I am still around 190ish and never spent a single copper. Just play the game and you will get them also the daily log in rewards or you can always leave a chat slot free for a charge farmer crest toon clear all the easy starter cities delete character repeat

Heh… Nice trollin there BlaqueFyre!

And no they are not free. Anything that costs you time is not free. Not using gold does not equal free contrary to common misconception.

Thank you sir and I will see you in PvP with my troll mortar engineer.

The charges are 100% free to me, I am not in PvP for the Charges they come naturally for playing the gamemode I like, I am there to improve my skill and achieve different rewards the charges are completely tertiary and inconsequential.

In all Honesty you will have to play the game like everyone else to get the charges and have them build up, it may seem like a burden to you since you only care for the looks but doesn’t change the fact that everyone needs to farm charges if they want to change their looks especially if they do it frequently, it’s not an issue because most people get them as a part of all game modes they enjoy without thinking about them.

Kevin.5980:

The reason why thief has 900 range is because of their insane mobilty, no other class can match DD mobility.

Increase initiative to 24 and 30 when traited? Thats too much, i could just simply equipped dual staff with runes of warrior and spam 5 all the way.

Comparing thieves to revanent skills is irrelevant, whenever revenant switches they starts at 50%, using a stun break in shiro or a cc utility instantly wipes the energy bar. Not to mention that there cds on the skills, which doesnt allow rapid spamming.

Druid says hello….. they are not that far behind Thief mobility wise between passive 33% move speed, super speed in stealth on a short CD and short CD with Grace of the Land and have 1200-1500 range. Anet through out that philosophy along time ago.

You guys realize that was on the preview in regards to spvp only right ? Quit whining wait till the patch drops with the fulll patch notes

@OP

You can get a lot of Transmutation charges for absolutely free just pop into PvP or WvW and boom after a few reward tracks you can always change without worrying if you do that every so often, I change my look almost weekly between 4-5 characters and never have to worry about charges I think I am still around 190ish and never spent a single copper. Just play the game and you will get them also the daily log in rewards or you can always leave a chat slot free for a charge farmer crest toon clear all the easy starter cities delete character repeat

Wiler.9873:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Wiler.9873:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

narcx.3570:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

guilds stil pick Revenant for raids.

I would like for you to run a test… Login to the game on your rev, and put yourself in the Raid LFG channel as “Rev lf any wing 80+li” and see how many people still want to pick Rev for raids.

Or you know I log in on my Rev raid with my guild…. you don’t base things off of the pug LFG they are worse then Lemmings for the most part and can’t make decisions for themselves on raid comps…. just saying

Then is not part of the meta, the meta is made as a base for everyone to have the most efficient way of doing things, to make the objective be accesible to all players and make easier to everyone how to do their job.

Did I ever say Rev was the " Meta"? Nope I don’t think I did, reading comprehension it’s a hell of a thing. I said Revs are still chosen for Raids, which infers that they are still Viable, and I know quite a few guilds that still choose to pull a Rev into regular Raid groups and succeed.

And I said don’t try to use PuGs/LFG because 9/10 they are worse then lemmings and with a perfect comp will fail because they can’t think for themselves….

the only reason why they choose you it’s because of your friends and they are willing to deal with any kitten you come with, but they are not being chosen, mostly everyone is not that flexible specially when 70% of raiders are elitist which only go with meta composition, specially in baruch bay.

Nice made up number, look I can do the same 90% of raiders don’t use Meta comps. And correction pugs only choose Meta comp, most guilds wanting speed clears use Meta comps, most guilds that raid don’t use pure Meta comps. Again lemming puggers try to enforce Meta only.

RodOfDeath.5247:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

blackgamma.1809:

High mobile classes that can enter and leave combat is a very abusive mechanic for roamer. i know this topic isnt something new. but how its abused makes other classes like druids and thieves and warriors significantly better than the rest. is not so much the instant full health that bothers me. its the classes abusing the cooldowns

so when a player engages a fight with a theif, and successfully lands their elite skill or a skill with a significantly high cooldown. that theif can blink away and use high mobility to leave combat. re enter combat with full health. making that skill wasted. even though you played correctly as intended.

my only suggestion is whenever a player leaves combat. they dont regen their health instantly to full. they either must find a safe spot to use their heals or regen, heal on the go

Why is it fair that some classes can negate all physical damage while waiting out their cool downs? Why do some classes have passive traits that punish perfect burst or Cc? Those aren’t fair why should they be rewarded for failing to properly dodge an attack/Cc while at the same time CC’ing the attacker without the press of a button? At least disengaging and Re-engaging is an actual strategy and not passive gameplay. It’s called thinking strategically and wanting to win you use the classes/builds advantages to secure a victory.

And if they are out of combat so are you….. not simple to grasp you will only die if you wast CDs trying to chase them.

Oh I see now you are a Necro main…… hence the salt on mobility classes, yet has some of the most passive gameplay on certain builds in game to date.

Insults a player because he’s salty but cries about passive. Irony

Nope drawing parallels, and he doesn’t grasp the concept that if the his opponent Disengages and OOC then he is OOC as well. Just saying. No salt just annoying seeing people that clearly don’t understand basic mechanics complaining about no issues.

Svarty.8019:

Kamara.4187:

Great post.

Great, but inaccurate. Or to put it less diplomatically, wrong.

So how is it inaccurate? Enlighten us!

baroi.3264:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

baroi.3264:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guardian

We’d like to give the guardian some core buffs to encourage non-elite spec play, ideally pushing them towards a potential support role. As for Dragonhunter, we’re seeing a disproportionate amount of play across all skill levels. We’re mostly happy with their damage output, and have decided to instead shave some of their utility.

• Piercing Light: This trait no longer causes traps to daze enemies and will instead inflict the Slow condition on enemies for 1.5 seconds on the initial ‘trigger’ of a trap.

First concept of Dragon Hunter was about Crowd Control. If you gonna remove the daze from Piercing Light, why not add only 1 daze at Test of Faith, I think its a viable option to us.. We’ll still need at least 1 fast CC to interrupt fast casting skills.

You mean like DH f1? Shield 5? Dragon Maw?

Spear of Justice is not fast to interrupt 1/4, 1/2 casting skills. Mostly will be used in the combo with ToF.
Shield is not used with longbow build.
Dragon Maw is for low tiers.

Those points are hardly points…. DH has quite a few fast options of Cc skills, it’s not my problem if you don’t select them they still exist…. also most interruptible Skills cast times are 1/4-1sec+

Huskyboy.1053:

Don’t forget their CC on Deflecting Shot, only a 10s CD!!

I knew I was missing one of them.

Aury.1367:

I understand that Rev has some deadly combos which are known for everyone. Those got nerfed like hell. But instead of boosting other skills in the game THE SAME AMOUNT others got nerfed (50% less dmg staff5? wth?) we just get more nerfs. Its incredibly depressing to play Rev since it came out.

Maybe they shouldn’t have shipped it so powercreeped. And again the Cc/Evad Skill should not have also been a burst skill to begin with….. the class was shipped highly OP, and they finally brought it in line with other classes, now they just have to fix the bugs plaguing it and make other Leg nds more viable.

baroi.3264:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guardian

We’d like to give the guardian some core buffs to encourage non-elite spec play, ideally pushing them towards a potential support role. As for Dragonhunter, we’re seeing a disproportionate amount of play across all skill levels. We’re mostly happy with their damage output, and have decided to instead shave some of their utility.

• Piercing Light: This trait no longer causes traps to daze enemies and will instead inflict the Slow condition on enemies for 1.5 seconds on the initial ‘trigger’ of a trap.

First concept of Dragon Hunter was about Crowd Control. If you gonna remove the daze from Piercing Light, why not add only 1 daze at Test of Faith, I think its a viable option to us.. We’ll still need at least 1 fast CC to interrupt fast casting skills.

You mean like DH f1? Shield 5? Dragon Maw?

I would like to see these overall fixes/tweaks to Thief as a whole this isn’t about individual skills/traits(mostly)

1. Balance the Initiative cost of ALL And I mean ALL Thief Weapon Skills around the Baseline 12 Initiative pool. Thief is very Initiative starved due to the rising cost of Initiative on weapon skills being balanced on Preparedness, with the Rebalance of costs this would inherently mean tweaks to Skills effects.

2. If #1 is not possible then make Preparedness Baseline since the Balance team/Karl is shoe Horning Thief into Trickery to grab Preparedness, This fix would be the quick and dirty thing to do with minimal effort compared to #1. This would need a replacement Trait, maybe bring back Richochet

3. Any skill that Shadowsteps and receives no Valid path to Target refunds the spent Initiative, the pathing bugs are grossly abundant everywhere even when it’s on flat ground. Having the iniative be spent when the skill doesn’t even activate is a horrible design when paired with all the pathing issues plaguing this game and Shadowsteps.

4. Remove the Self Reveal from SR it is already the worst the AoE Stealth in game no need to have it Reveal anyone step in them out of it.

These are just my top 3 requests.

If anyone thinks I missed something important let me know!

Reposting from the other Thread.

Nooo stupid forum didn’t post and deleted my comments

First things first… Thief is already Initiative starved, this is caused by Anet balancing all Initiative costs on the Preparedness 15 Initiative pool, instead of the 12 Initiative pool baseline which should be what all costs are balanced on, the proper fix would be to balance around 12 Initiative( I don’t see that ever happening since it requires them to put effort into balancing skills properly), the quick fix would be to make Preparedness Baseline and making a new trait instead for Trickery. Increasing Initiative costs on skills otherwise is not an Option.

In regards to SB

The damage buffs to AA are needed butThief already lacks AoE so removing the Bounce would hurt it more than normal, a bigger fix is the projectile pathing needs to be fixed 90% of the time it receives Obstructed on perfectly flat terrain.

Thief Weapons for the most part are all Hybrid sans S/X and Staff. They shouldn’t remove poison field It is integral to point pressure to combat Rezzing and Combat the ridiculous amount of heals going on.

They don’t need a blind field SB 5 already Blinds.

Having a Stealth skill on SB would be very nice addition but is not necessarily needed.

Your D/P changes are ridiculous to say the least, the only one with Merit is the BP reduction.

Heartseeker does not need an Evade it would causes brainless spam even more.

Shadowshot rework would make it a Superior IS/IR something D/P does not need, and would be the ultimate nail in the coffin killing S/X Builds completely.

Yes Staff 5 needs a damage Nerf for similar Reasons as the SotM nerf Rev received just not as bad since it has punish frames built in and does not Cc.

Nooo stupid forum didn’t post and deleted my comments

First things first… Thief is already Initiative starved, this is caused by Anet balancing all Initiative costs on the Preparedness 15 Initiative pool, instead of the 12 Initiative pool baseline which should be what all costs are balanced on, the proper fix would be to balance around 12 Initiative( I don’t see that ever happening since it requires them to put effort into balancing skills properly), the quick fix would be to make Preparedness Baseline and making a new trait instead for Trickery. Increasing Initiative costs on skills otherwise is not an Option.

In regards to SB

The damage buffs to AA are needed butThief already lacks AoE so removing the Bounce would hurt it more than normal, a bigger fix is the projectile pathing needs to be fixed 90% of the time it receives Obstructed on perfectly flat terrain.

Thief Weapons for the most part are all Hybrid sans S/X and Staff. They shouldn’t remove poison field It is integral to point pressure to combat Rezzing and Combat the ridiculous amount of heals going on.

They don’t need a blind field SB 5 already Blinds.

Having a Stealth skill on SB would be very nice addition but is not necessarily needed.

Your D/P changes are ridiculous to say the least, the only one with Merit is the BP reduction.

Heartseeker does not need an Evade it would causes brainless spam even more.

Shadowshot rework would make it a Superior IS/IR something D/P does not need, and would be the ultimate nail in the coffin killing S/X Builds completely.

Yes Staff 5 needs a damage Nerf for similar Reasons as the SotM nerf Rev received just not as bad since it has punish frames built in and does not Cc.

Chinchilla.1785:

I understand the purpose of health resets in this game to increase its pace by allowing people to enter combat once more after a fight.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

It makes sense in PvE, after you cleared a batch of enemys you don’t have the luxury of healers for a refill like in older MMOs (until HoT anyway…). It makes sense in the smaller arenas in Spvp, and keeps the game moving instead of spectating on someone hiding in a corner waiting on a heal for three times until full.

As for WvW, at best, I’d consider increasing the range for reset. So even if said mobility class has all their cooldowns, they must burn more off for that magical reset healing effect. This would affect disengagement more than engagement in my opinion.

Furthermore, I’d add on having a condi on an opponent leaves you in combat until it is removed. This way resetting on condi builds (knowing your duration is off the charts) will keep you more mindful of applying condis vs. seeking to recover.

In general though, HoT killed roaming for me.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

I am bias’d heavily against even doing it much anymore. The balance introduced long effect chains (ex. fear applies chill, that applies bleeding and vulnerability/weakness), increased spam of actions (evades,blocks,warrior bursts,auras,etc…), that overall exaggerated the scale between burst, and sustain (all those damage reduction things…). Because of this, roaming can be very twitchy with low time to kill (like Cally of Duty or the Wild West) or a dragged out torture with various bunkers.

Damaging Condis keep players in combat

Jski.6180:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

blackgamma.1809:

High mobile classes that can enter and leave combat is a very abusive mechanic for roamer. i know this topic isnt something new. but how its abused makes other classes like druids and thieves and warriors significantly better than the rest. is not so much the instant full health that bothers me. its the classes abusing the cooldowns

so when a player engages a fight with a theif, and successfully lands their elite skill or a skill with a significantly high cooldown. that theif can blink away and use high mobility to leave combat. re enter combat with full health. making that skill wasted. even though you played correctly as intended.

my only suggestion is whenever a player leaves combat. they dont regen their health instantly to full. they either must find a safe spot to use their heals or regen, heal on the go

Why is it fair that some classes can negate all physical damage while waiting out their cool downs? Why do some classes have passive traits that punish perfect burst or Cc? Those aren’t fair why should they be rewarded for failing to properly dodge an attack/Cc while at the same time CC’ing the attacker without the press of a button? At least disengaging and Re-engaging is an actual strategy and not passive gameplay. It’s called thinking strategically and wanting to win you use the classes/builds advantages to secure a victory.

And if they are out of combat so are you….. not simple to grasp you will only die if you wast CDs trying to chase them.

Oh I see now you are a Necro main…… hence the salt on mobility classes, yet has some of the most passive gameplay on certain builds in game to date.

You mean like war druids and thf who are not punished for spamming there high def skill both dodges and dmg mitigation? To the point that you cant kill these classes with out going super conidtion builds pushing the meta into a very toxic “unfun” path.

Leaps all of them need to be gap closer not running away tools so if you do not heal / hit some one you should deal with a higher cd. If you do not dodge an attk it should take longer for your endures to come back. If you stay in stealth too long you should start to get def -%.

You can play any game in an unfun way and call it “well i am just playing better then you” but your no longer playing your making it a task and removing the fact its a game. This is why we do not let ppl hit good players with baseballs to “take them out” with out high punishments. Its not playing better its just exploitation.

Again every class has survivability cheese it’s just a different flavor, i.e. Passives that reward bad players for getting Cc’ed /bursts down, or classes with low Cd defenses that burst then cycle through their blocks/invulnerable/evades/Heals till their burst is back up, i.e. Warrior, DH, Chrono, Engie,Ele and so on, Thief to a lesser extent since no real CDs and they have to disengage and reset it’s how the class was designed Devs have stated as such.

And let’s reiterate once again if someone disengages you are both out of combat what don’t you understand about that? If they OOC to heal up guess what you are OOC and heal up as well…. it’s not rocket science.

If the remove the disengage potential of classes then they better remove all the invulns and passive defenses all classes have because those don’t promote skill at all.

blackgamma.1809:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

blackgamma.1809:

High mobile classes that can enter and leave combat is a very abusive mechanic for roamer. i know this topic isnt something new. but how its abused makes other classes like druids and thieves and warriors significantly better than the rest. is not so much the instant full health that bothers me. its the classes abusing the cooldowns

so when a player engages a fight with a theif, and successfully lands their elite skill or a skill with a significantly high cooldown. that theif can blink away and use high mobility to leave combat. re enter combat with full health. making that skill wasted. even though you played correctly as intended.

my only suggestion is whenever a player leaves combat. they dont regen their health instantly to full. they either must find a safe spot to use their heals or regen, heal on the go

Why is it fair that some classes can negate all physical damage while waiting out their cool downs? Why do some classes have passive traits that punish perfect burst or Cc? Those aren’t fair why should they be rewarded for failing to properly dodge an attack/Cc while at the same time CC’ing the attacker without the press of a button? At least disengaging and Re-engaging is an actual strategy and not passive gameplay. It’s called thinking strategically and wanting to win you use the classes/builds advantages to secure a victory.

And if they are out of combat so are you….. not simple to grasp you will only die if you wast CDs trying to chase them.

Oh I see now you are a Necro main…… hence the salt on mobility classes, yet has some of the most passive gameplay on certain builds in game to date.

dude you are so annoyed that my comment, that you decided to paint your own image of me, with words, in your inside your own head.

i like losing fights, its how i learn. i dont like how exploiting mechanics as seen as a legit strategy, learn to retreat and come back in a split second? thats not why the leaving combat mechanic exists. bad mechanics are not legit stats, or else glitching into towers, portal bombing with 100 zerg, or perma quickeness or stability to a 50 man squad would be legit strategy.

why is the community conditioned so badly to play around and abuse bad mechanics and bugs?

also in regards to SpellOfIniquity, i like your advice that im already forced to follow since HoT release.

Nope just annoyed at players not understanding core gameplay concepts.

It’s not an abuse of mechanics, it is a legit strategy, if you they are out of combat so are you it’s not a hard concept to grasp, your health and so on regenerates as well. Different classes have different ways to approach combat Some rely on mobility some rely on passives and so on, just because you don’t like the mechanic means it’s an exploit.

Each class has the tools to disengage from a fight or to kill all other classes, your posts just screams l2p and you want people to sit there and facetank your damage, sorry you can’t understand actual strategies.

Tl;Dr

If your opponent is out of combat so are you in 1v1 situations, if you can’t grasp that there is no helping you.

Svarty.8019:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

CrimeMaker.8612:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 “Quit crying and move on, WvW get more attention” WvW will not get more attention when you only have like two devs working on it which is part time and their main focus in PvE. So please hush.

You are just whining and lying when saying and I quote "while its been years WvW has barely gotten that level attention. " when the past year WvW has. Web receiving a lot of attention/overhauls/additions. And WvW will get more attention so don’t worry quit whining.

It’s undeniable that WvW has had developer attention this year, but I question developer focus when;

1. didn’t provide features that increase a team’s ability to recover from large point disparities, and instead do the opposite (see #2).
2. they implement things that only 13.7% of those polled requested.
3. out off the blue they suggest open field cannons

I was encouraged when developers made the proposal for, “New Worlds”. This gave me the impression that they were trying. I was instantly discouraged when they just dismissed the whole idea after people suggested that there were problems with it, rather than discussing those problems and solutions to them.

The last part seems more like a community issue and not a Dev issue. If the Community keeps shooting down Ideas without actual discussion on their part or attepting to discuss it the Devs won’t waste their time with the idea, yes the WvW Devs need to be more vocal and to be more engaged that is something that lacks the most especially for WvW but also other game modes.

Wiler.9873:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

narcx.3570:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

guilds stil pick Revenant for raids.

I would like for you to run a test… Login to the game on your rev, and put yourself in the Raid LFG channel as “Rev lf any wing 80+li” and see how many people still want to pick Rev for raids.

Or you know I log in on my Rev raid with my guild…. you don’t base things off of the pug LFG they are worse then Lemmings for the most part and can’t make decisions for themselves on raid comps…. just saying

Then is not part of the meta, the meta is made as a base for everyone to have the most efficient way of doing things, to make the objective be accesible to all players and make easier to everyone how to do their job.

Did I ever say Rev was the " Meta"? Nope I don’t think I did, reading comprehension it’s a hell of a thing. I said Revs are still chosen for Raids, which infers that they are still Viable, and I know quite a few guilds that still choose to pull a Rev into regular Raid groups and succeed.

And I said don’t try to use PuGs/LFG because 9/10 they are worse then lemmings and with a perfect comp will fail because they can’t think for themselves….

blackgamma.1809:

High mobile classes that can enter and leave combat is a very abusive mechanic for roamer. i know this topic isnt something new. but how its abused makes other classes like druids and thieves and warriors significantly better than the rest. is not so much the instant full health that bothers me. its the classes abusing the cooldowns

so when a player engages a fight with a theif, and successfully lands their elite skill or a skill with a significantly high cooldown. that theif can blink away and use high mobility to leave combat. re enter combat with full health. making that skill wasted. even though you played correctly as intended.

my only suggestion is whenever a player leaves combat. they dont regen their health instantly to full. they either must find a safe spot to use their heals or regen, heal on the go

Why is it fair that some classes can negate all physical damage while waiting out their cool downs? Why do some classes have passive traits that punish perfect burst or Cc? Those aren’t fair why should they be rewarded for failing to properly dodge an attack/Cc while at the same time CC’ing the attacker without the press of a button? At least disengaging and Re-engaging is an actual strategy and not passive gameplay. It’s called thinking strategically and wanting to win you use the classes/builds advantages to secure a victory.

And if they are out of combat so are you….. not simple to grasp you will only die if you wast CDs trying to chase them.

Oh I see now you are a Necro main…… hence the salt on mobility classes, yet has some of the most passive gameplay on certain builds in game to date.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

What’s even worse is that even though cnd gives 3 stacks of vulnerability but the dmg certificate is less then shadow shot. I am not comping there’s 2 skills to say how gready d/p is or how much stronger it is but how can something that costs 4 inative be able to port you to taget, blinds said foe wich can’t be blocked and does more dmg then cnd that can be blocked, can only be used in melee range and costs 6 inative. Stuff like this just makes me wonder how the balance team come up with there’s sort of figures.

The reason is ermergherd Stealthz OP!!! Must kill with Fire!!!

Huskyboy.1053:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Wiler.9873:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It was launched being grossly overpowered and has been slowly brought inline with other classes, now if only they would fix the plethora of Bugs that plague revenant and fix some of the other Legends and trait lines and Revenant would be in a good place.

Just as it was before this patch it was ok, now he is way under the line compared to the other classes, he is outside of any meta pve or pvp, after chrono nerf he got royally screwed because now they need 2 chronos plus they also nerfed facet of nature, now this happens which is really sad, on pvp once you learn how to use him right it felt rewarded, not everyone can have cooldown + energy awareness or skills in general, now they just screwed it up. On pvp there are only try hard teams and stupid builds made for disable people… I don’t enjoy doing that, this pvp season will be hell.

Rev is not going to be under the line the big cc Evasive skill will stil do decent damage but it won’t be a burst tied to A large Cc and Evade skill, this won’t kill the build. Precision Strike nerf won’t kill the build most good Tevs don’t spam it for damage. The warding rift was unnecessary and hurts but won’t kill the build and make it on Meta, multiple ESL player still see Rev being a strong pick and still being Meta I would trust their judgement on class analysis on future balance patches over 90% of the forum have a population which are people always acting like chicken little.

The PvE nerf to Facet of Nature sucks but it wasn’t due to PvE it was mainly WvW causing that nerf same with Chrono, and guilds stil pick Revenant for raids.

Rev was OP now it’s inline with other classes now you have to think about an engagement., I know I will still play Rev in the Season because it brings a lot to the table and this nerf won’t affect any game mode besides PvP so no worry there.!!.

Just curious here, what comp would you be with/against that would make you choose rev over thief?

Any comp that is clearly low on Condi, and if it is stacked with DHs. Even with the nerfs the Rev will be Favorable over some comps now we will have to see how prevalent Condi builds will be this next season once Burn Guard is buffed.

narcx.3570:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

guilds stil pick Revenant for raids.

I would like for you to run a test… Login to the game on your rev, and put yourself in the Raid LFG channel as “Rev lf any wing 80+li” and see how many people still want to pick Rev for raids.

Or you know I log in on my Rev raid with my guild…. you don’t base things off of the pug LFG they are worse then Lemmings for the most part and can’t make decisions for themselves on raid comps…. just saying

Wiler.9873:

people saying “revenant was too OP”

What the hell is wrong with you?

I went from amber to Diamond with Guardian and I DON’T KNOW HOW TO USE IT!!!

(don’t believe me? there was even a post on reddit about it or I can share my match history)

Seriously get another argument because if a revenant actually kicks your kitten so easily it is because he is really good and you might not be bad but that guy is better than you

League placement means absolutely nothing s1-s4 literally nothing since the system pre chose teams to win and so on people were carried by the system you could be semi afk and get to Ruby/diamond every match… yay for safeguards!!!

And no if a Rev kicked your kitten easily it means he’s spammed his rotation, that doesn’t take skill for the Rev rotation currently, but. It is always fun to juke a Rev and their rotation watch keep pressing the buttons and I am not there to take the damage.

Wiler.9873:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

It was launched being grossly overpowered and has been slowly brought inline with other classes, now if only they would fix the plethora of Bugs that plague revenant and fix some of the other Legends and trait lines and Revenant would be in a good place.

Just as it was before this patch it was ok, now he is way under the line compared to the other classes, he is outside of any meta pve or pvp, after chrono nerf he got royally screwed because now they need 2 chronos plus they also nerfed facet of nature, now this happens which is really sad, on pvp once you learn how to use him right it felt rewarded, not everyone can have cooldown + energy awareness or skills in general, now they just screwed it up. On pvp there are only try hard teams and stupid builds made for disable people… I don’t enjoy doing that, this pvp season will be hell.

Rev is not going to be under the line the big cc Evasive skill will stil do decent damage but it won’t be a burst tied to A large Cc and Evade skill, this won’t kill the build. Precision Strike nerf won’t kill the build most good Tevs don’t spam it for damage. The warding rift was unnecessary and hurts but won’t kill the build and make it on Meta, multiple ESL player still see Rev being a strong pick and still being Meta I would trust their judgement on class analysis on future balance patches over 90% of the forum have a population which are people always acting like chicken little.

The PvE nerf to Facet of Nature sucks but it wasn’t due to PvE it was mainly WvW causing that nerf same with Chrono, and guilds stil pick Revenant for raids.

Rev was OP now it’s inline with other classes now you have to think about an engagement., I know I will still play Rev in the Season because it brings a lot to the table and this nerf won’t affect any game mode besides PvP so no worry there.!!.

CrimeMaker.8612:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 “Quit crying and move on, WvW get more attention” WvW will not get more attention when you only have like two devs working on it which is part time and their main focus in PvE. So please hush.

You are just whining and lying when saying and I quote "while its been years WvW has barely gotten that level attention. " when the past year WvW has. Web receiving a lot of attention/overhauls/additions. And WvW will get more attention so don’t worry quit whining.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Season 3 and Season 4 became pale for PvP and to make it interested again Anet did a complete overhaul for it in 3 months max. WvW has been pale af since last 2 years and what we get is tiny patches here and there that also we WvWers have to cry and moan about it for days and weeks before we get it.

I already proved those “small patches” wrong WvW has had an ample amount of attention very recently as proven in my previous post. The overhaul actually makes PvP which is a “competitive” game mode actually better to be competitive something they struggled with since Season 1 and before then. Quit crying move on WvW will get more attention.

Participation is not reward track progress, it is the anonymity by o participation to reach each tier of reward track bonus

CrimeMaker.8612:

Shadelang.3012:

Oh my god people >.< Seriously? The devs flat out say here that the patch in question was largely made by the SPvP team. Of COURSE the changes are going to be focused on that. Especially now that they have skill splitting setup so that they can make actual changes on there own WITHOUT relying entirely on the balance team.

We are probably going to see PvP focused patches coming from them in the future.

WvW Is a WHOLE different beast. As Crapgame said WvW has armor,food,weapons and battles with 30+ players.

This skill splitting is exactly what many of us have been asking for and now that its happening your kittening because the patch isn’t all about you?

Anet is giving you the middle finger? No their not. I am at the moment though so /shrug.

If the patch isn’t about your game mode/class whatever don’t freak out about it. Maybe look at what the patch actually means. Skill splitting means that a small amount of the pressure is taken off the balance team when it comes to MAKING THE GAME BALANCED.

We should be kitten ed well rejoicing that this is happening. Not crying that its not all about us right now.

And don’t bring up the whole “Oh we have been disregarded for so long in favor of x game mode, This is just one more drop in the bucket of anet’s complete disregard for our enjoyment blah blah blah” I hear the same stuff in HoTM all the time in reference to PvE and WvW. And believe it or not I hear it in raids as well as someone complains that X skill got shafted because of Y game mode.

Let Anet do their job now that they finally have the tools set up to do it. We should be encouraging them and offering advice on what they could do with this setup. Not chewing them out in the most see through passive aggressive BS since my High School sweetheart left me for joining the military.

PvP gets a complete overhaul in 3 months while its been years WvW has barely gotten that level attention. Again word on street is that there are only 2 devs working on WvW team and that also part time their main focus is still PvE

You clearly don’t pay attention to changes then…. years?? Let’s see Oct 2015 DBL, Oct 2015 Proof of Heroics and vendors put in Game, April 2016 Reward Tracks added, April 2016 World Linkings added, Jun 2016 Alpine BLs brought back, Sep 2016 Skirmishes Added, October 2016 Boonshare and Rev Facet of Nature was nerfed due to WvW. But yeah it’s been years since WvW received any attention…… bahahhahahhahaha

SuperduperMLGbsns.9345:

SteepledHat.1345:

They won’t be missed.

This. Exactly this.
Still wonder why anet refused to nerf Unrelenting Assault, that has an unlimited gap closer range and can follow a Mesmer thru a portal over a 4000+ range effortlessly.
Worst balanced class ingame when it comes to the mechanic. Still.

I they shouldn’t. We’d that I love dumping Revs in a stranded area with Mesmer portal it is so great to strand them away from a contested node and such.

It was launched being grossly overpowered and has been slowly brought inline with other classes, now if only they would fix the plethora of Bugs that plague revenant and fix some of the other Legends and trait lines and Revenant would be in a good place.

Yeah quit being greedy!!!! Still need to make the 2nd Gen Sword, Dagger, Longbow, Rifle, Focus, Scepter, Torch, Warhorn. Before you request a 3rd because you don’t like one…….

TheDarkSoul.1938:

@Straegen, I can understand Tempests but Warriors? Just wait for the stab and Steal it, or kite until its over and you can Headshot pretty easily, I don’t have any issues interrupting Warriors at all, in fact they’re one of the easier targets to interrupt because of how telegraphed they are. I wouldn’t say Headshot is as easy to “shut down” as you say though, and ofc using it or other interrupts with PI are never going to be used as main damage sources by themselves, I just don’t believe PI should be supplementing damage in the same way it does right now.

I’d also like to re-iterate by saying that when I say “spam Headshot” I don’t literally mean smashing my fingers on the 4 key over and over, I mean frequent use of it without any thought or intention going into it. Obviously popping off 3 Headshots one after the other is a waste, unless of course your opponent doesn’t catch on and you end up interrupting 3 random skills one after the other in which case congratulations you just landed 9k for no reason at all. (But still probably a waste)

@Fat Disgrace, I sometimes stow my weapons and then Steal straight afterwards, the stow often makes people think you’re going to wait or kite for a few seconds so the Steal straight afterwards catches some people. I guess its also an alternative to disabling AA, but I know some people use it for style points, lol.

The Meta warrior build uses blocks that reflect as well on very low CDs it’s not just the stab

Pyriall.1683:

Topher.5631:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Lots of great feedback in this thread! I see a lot of concern about the nerfs to revenant so I would like to discuss those a bit more.

Surge of the Mists is a skill that does everything. It evades attacks, is a massive cc, and does a huge amount of damage. The defensive capability and cc fit well with the rest of the staff set, so we felt the damage was the best spot to bring the skill down a bit. 50% is certainly a big reduction, but consider just how much damage this skill does right now. Even after the nerf it will still take a chunk out of a squishy’s health bar, in addition to providing cc setup for another skill (and teammates).

Precision Strike is another skill that we felt did too much damage on its own, particularly when all 3 projectiles hit one player. This is another case of a big reduction on a skill that does a ton of damage, resulting in a skill that still does a reasonable amount of damage.

In general, revenant isn’t lacking in sources of damage. Unrelenting Assault, Facets of Strength, Elements, and Chaos, Equilibrium, and sword autoattack are all strong damage skills as well. Precision Strike and Surge of the Mists will continue to bring relevant damage to the table, so rev should still have plenty of damage to go around.

With that said, we will definitely be keeping a close eye on things going into the season.

This is what we get when a dev plays pvp and understands it. Good things happen.

In light of other nerfs, can we see a shave on pulmonary impact’s damage? It is too easy for a thief to randomly interrupt a skill without having any of their own.

*As a thief main, btw

Forget the shave, if you select impacting disruption and do not interrupt your next headshot should cost double the initiative.

It’s not like it doesn’t already have a high cost on HS, that most classes have ways to negate it entirely i.e. Projectile hate/Reflects, loads of Stability, and so on…

Windwalker.7421:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mesmer

Mesmer has been on our radar for a while now, but it’s a delicate situation. We’re going to keep the change list small for this update, focusing mostly on sustain, and reassess the situation mid-season.

• Echo of Memory: The cooldown of this ability has been increased from 30 to 35 seconds in PvP only.
• Restorative Illusions: The healing contribution of this trait has been increased by 285% in PvP only. The base healing modifiers for this trait have been adjusted as follows:
  • 0 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 62% in PvP only.
  • 1 Illusion shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 50% in PvP only.
  • 2 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 42% in PvP only.
  • 3 Illusions shattered: Base healing modifier reduced by 36% in PvP only.

Could you please clarify these numbers? What exactly does all this mean for RI on current builds? (No healing power) What about with 560 HP from Sages/Menders?

Will it mean these Amulets will become useful to us, or does the 285% boost only mean these already completely unused Amulets (for Mesmers) will now become more viable options? (As in, significantly more healing from RI then they do currently?)

I can’t begin to fathom the reasons for these nerfs, considering that all Mesmer Power builds need better sustain not worse. I was hoping you’d be interested in providing more build diversity, not killing off the already almost non-existent build diversity of this profession.

I think it’s great that you now have the ability to balance a little more freely without regard to PvP balance, but none of this will mean anything if you continue to nerf in this way. Every single significant nerf in this game should always be accompanied by some sort boost of an unused/underused aspect of the same profession. Considering that every profession is chuck full of useless/underused/underpowered traits, utilities, and skills this will not be hard to accomplish!

Mesmers for one have loads of them! Is there nothing you can think of to boost for a class that has effectively one PvP build? Sad state of affairs if you ask me…

You can go in game and run the numbers yourself…..

And this is par for the course of there changes for all classes traits/skills that provide healing on top so they require HP for good healing numbers.

JahCool.3812:

The piercing light nerf on DH does not say pvp only so i expect wvw and pve too?

Dev already stated it is global

Bezerker.2379:

Honestly, while I am very very happy to see pvp balancing, I am sad to say I also have issues with this.

I play 2 out of 3 game modes exclusively. I occasionally dabble in the third. The drastic differences (especially on CDs and whatnot) between game modes gets annoying.

All this will do is further lock people into specific game modes for their class.

If these were split with wvw & pvp vs pve, I might be less annoyed, but I must say, even though I play a class seeing a buff here (fresh air scepter ele) I am bothered by the lack of consistency in game modes.

I know most players love this, but it just really drives me nuts. :P

They aren’t that drastic of changes between game modes and they stated they will move some to universal after evaluation. The skills will function identically just different numbers.

Xenesis.6389:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I don’t think that word (requires) means what you think it means.

you aren’t required to raid to get Ascended for purchase you can do Fractals as well no RNG needed….. again you aren’t required to have peak stats in those game modes they just make it easier for more room for error, i.e. Raid bosses being killed by groups with all green gear… learn your facts before posting.

And again hopefully they add purchasable ascended to WvW it needs it so people can have goals to work towards in their gamemode.

I said it’s “required for peak stats” not that it’s just required in general, is there something else that gives you peak stats in the game?

Is it required to do any parts of the game? no, but obviously every player in some way will strive for the best gear to get the best results because in the end it does make a difference however minuscule it might look to you.

Players who do raids in greens do it to increase the challenge for themselves, doesn’t mean every joe jane and harry are going in there in greens. Why do you think there are groups out there that require you to have certain levels of gear to join a group? Because they want a smooth run and having the best gear helps, as you stated, makes it easier for more room of error.

Wvw should have gotten purchasable ascended before spvp, or at least the same time they are introducing this. But again not shocking, and they need something to promote spvp.

P.S you sure as hell ain’t doing wvw in greens or you will get demolished.

I called you out on your blatant use of require, i.e. You saying and I quote “Pve requires you to raid to buy ascended” (removed the unnecessary parenthesis)which is not the case you can purchase in fractals.

And people are calling foul for a PvP Dev answering the PvP community’s question of what pertains to season 5 and PvP only, these aren’t the full patch notes, maybe you should press McKenna for more information regarding WvW this patch.

@Rauderi

Why would it tick off people that invested into those stats if they added the stats to be included? They wouldn’t have to change anything besides adding the stats to the “all stats” calculation

That was just the preview of notes relevant to PvP posted in the PvP section so if you wait the WvW Devs may give you a preview relevant to WvW or just wait for the actual patch to drop on Dec13

Xenesis.6389:

Back to my original post: I hope this means we can unlock elites in PvP. I’m sorry if you have an issue with that Xenesis.

Spvp players already get their elite specs for free in their primary game mode. The other two sets of players, pve and wvw, have to work on unlocking them for their primary game mode. So I disagree with unlocking it for use in the rest of the world through spvp, if you want it in those game modes, go play those game modes, the same for mastery.

Back to the original topic, it’s pretty terrible to allow spvp players to buy whatever ascended weapon or armor for other game modes, exotics weapons and armor with ascended trinkets would have been fine as base line.

Pve requires you to raid (the top pve mode which not every pve player even likes) to buy ascended or get randoms in fractals or craft it, wvw requires you to craft it (expensive) or play innumerable amount of hours to get lucky with random drops for random ascended with random stats, which most times end up being a ring with bad stats.

Both those modes require ascended for peak stats in their game modes, and yet purchasable ascended weapons and armor was kept out of their reach for so long until raids. I know this was a move to attract pve and wvw players into spvp, I wouldn’t be surprised if they attracted more afk bots instead. Now primary wvw players have to raid or do spvp to buy their ascended.

I don’t think that word (requires) means what you think it means.

you aren’t required to raid to get Ascended for purchase you can do Fractals as well no RNG needed….. again you aren’t required to have peak stats in those game modes they just make it easier for more room for error, i.e. Raid bosses being killed by groups with all green gear… learn your facts before posting.

And again hopefully they add purchasable ascended to WvW it needs it so people can have goals to work towards in their gamemode.

Thea Cherry.6327:

PVP gets asc gear… is this a joke?
They dont even use those. x.x

Most players in PvP don’t just PvP they do other game modes as well. Sorry that PvP Devs are communicating more than the WvW ones. WvW should and hopefully will get ascended purchasable as well with this patch. But I would ask McKenna for info there is no reason to be completely silent a week before the patch

Ragion.2831:

All the retribution nerf did to the revenant meta game was remove retribution from the meta. Everything else would have stayed the same.

This time around invocation rev has been affected which means its quite likely that rev wont be used as much or if it is, its going to be a much much more vulnerable version since you have to stack damage increases at the expense of sustain to compensate for the damage lost.

Swift termination might have to be taken over assassins annihilation, rune of the scholar over surging. Might have to use both fire and air sigils on both weapons sets as well.

This level of dedicaton to damage on a class that has no disengage and now reduced blocking ability. I dont know if a rev will be able to last very long in prolonged fights now.

They didn’t nerf Revs blocking ability!? They only reduced the damage of SotM and damage on Precision Strike what block are they nerf if?

Edit never mind I kitten ed hard warding rift I see it now.

@Shadowstep

It’s seems your post was Obstructed!

TheDarkSoul.1938:

@Puz, well to that I’d say that most players, unless they’re braindead, wouldn’t hit Headshot whilst you have your weapons stowed anyway. What most Thieves do is what I described; get you low, then hit Headshot a few times because they know that you HAVE to use some sort of weapon/utility skill or at the very least an AA to either recover or counterattack. At the end of the day, unless you have Stab (again, they wouldn’t hit Headshot if you did) they ARE going to interrupt something totally random and at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter what that is because PI, in this scenario, turns Headshot into a skill that does unblockable, undodgeable and stackable damage from range.

Before PI, if I just hit Headshot a couple times every time I got say another Thief below 50%, and all I ended up doing was interrupting an AA, that WOULD have been a waste of initiative and I should, rightly, get punished for it. Now however it’s not a waste of initiative because I’m getting damage out of it for no reason at all. Same as with S/P and Pistol Whip; Should I get rewarded for using it to interrupt a key skill like a heal? Or should I just get spoon-fed an extra 3k guaranteed damage because the guy was in melee range and so probably AAing at the time? The second scenario doesn’t seem very skillful to me.

The point I’m (poorly) trying to make is that yes PI is rewarding properly timed and executed interupts, but it’s also rewarding random use of skills like Headshot that previously were situational and now aren’t so much.

I will play devils advocate here.

Should players be rewarded for missing a dodge/block/invuln while being CC’d and reflect cc back at the source?

Should players be rewarded for failing to use their defenses properly and get auto invulnerable?

It’s not like Thief has the only trait that rewards unskilled play or the only trait that adds Damage to interrupts, there is Distracting Strikes 4 stacks of confusion on interrupt from Warrior which they can chain interrupt players for devasting damage, there is Power Block which is damage and Weakness on interrupt from Mesmer which also increase recharge time, Mesmer can spam Interrupts between its most used weapon sets, Ele has Lightning rod which damages on interrupt and so on.