Guild Wars 2

Nakoor.1980:

Doomdesire.9365:

cyyrix.6105:

Word is a couple of guilds on SoR aren’t too happy about TW’s transfer shenanigans. It isn’t helping the fact that some of those players already felt a little swindled by a false promise of good fights during the guild’s prime time.

Hopefully TW’s obsession with BG doesn’t destroy that #1 NA community. eek.

Actually we’re really just bored as hell. TW leaving for a week or two is a good thing because now it’s a tad bit more even and less queue times.

I miss choo, but not sanghae. It’s only been 2 days.

Indo should give an inspirational speech to JQ for the lulz.

I also expect Indo to conduct our server meeting next friday while he’s on JQ o.O

cyyrix.6105:

Word is a couple of guilds on SoR aren’t too happy about TW’s transfer shenanigans. It isn’t helping the fact that some of those players already felt a little swindled by a false promise of good fights during the guild’s prime time.

Hopefully TW’s obsession with BG doesn’t destroy that #1 NA community. eek.

Actually we’re really just bored as hell. TW leaving for a week or two is a good thing because now it’s a tad bit more even and less queue times.

Arale.4207:

Doomdesire.9365:

Arale.4207:

Doomdesire.9365:

Man, it’s so weird seeing TC/SoS 30 man zergs. It feels dirty when you have 50 guys behind you. So used to tier 1 zerg sizes ._.

To be honest, we are missing a lot of people. Not sure if that’s RL or unwillingness to face SoR, but the people you are seeing now are mostly the ones who you will be seeing regardless of the score. We’ll keep fighting & trying & learning even if things aren’t going well for us. Normally though, I think we could be way more competitive. But yeah, we are missing a lot of people.

Also, to the Choo I chilled out with, much fun! Sorry about the passerbys :X

LOL that was me!

Lol. I schooled that mesmer, then in the distance…a snowman. So I was like, THIS ISNT EVEN MY FINAL FORM! So I transformed.

Also, I’ve followed the T1 threads for awhile, and always seen your signature. Can I try 1v1ing you? :O

Any time! But be warned I run the most annoying P/D thief build and people hate that

Inb4 all of SoR transfers to JQ for a week

…temporary bandwagon?

SoS BL seems pretty exciting.

SoS flipped tier 3 garrison
>5 minutes later
SoR reflipped SoS garrison
>5 minutes later
SoS took garrison once again!

Alodar.5794:

TSL has entered SoR. We plan on taking over your entire map. We have 15… you have 80.

Bring it!

Go TSL! I’m cheering for you guise!

Arale.4207:

Doomdesire.9365:

Man, it’s so weird seeing TC/SoS 30 man zergs. It feels dirty when you have 50 guys behind you. So used to tier 1 zerg sizes ._.

To be honest, we are missing a lot of people. Not sure if that’s RL or unwillingness to face SoR, but the people you are seeing now are mostly the ones who you will be seeing regardless of the score. We’ll keep fighting & trying & learning even if things aren’t going well for us. Normally though, I think we could be way more competitive. But yeah, we are missing a lot of people.

Also, to the Choo I chilled out with, much fun! Sorry about the passerbys :X

LOL that was me!

Elite Skill

Turn yourself into a sandwich, granting stability and delicious cold turkey.

I’ve never really been able to get a tank build for thief that doesn’t rely on evades/stealth, even with full PTV, but if you have enough vitality and toughness so that you don’t melt on revealed(generally, I like to stick to 16K+ vit and at least 2100 armor) then you should be fine when dealing with a pug group of 3. Depending on how skilled they are you may simply melt w/ seemingly endless CCs or you will come out victorious.

If I were you, OP, I would run some sort of valkyrie/PTV mix with at least a ~30% crit chance through the use of knights/zerker and simply utilize fury for 50% crit chance. It works quite well in spvp, but you would need runes that give fury, along with fury on steal and fury when your enemy reaches 50%.

You could also run the precision boosting signet as well, if you don’t mind losing one utility.

IMO D/P could use a tweaking (mostly 2 ini on stealth is pretty ridiculous on all thief classes besides S/P P/P. It promotes massive stealth spamming)

For the most part with CnD you can easily mitigate the stealth via dodge/cc

With D/P there’s not very much you can do to prevent 90% of their stealth. Stacking blinds on top of it already make it a powerful class. But getting 2 initiative everytime you stealth just doesn’t seem right imo.

Y U NO TORCH?!?!?

T_T

I hoped TC enjoyed our suicide rush into their legendary defenders. 15 of us made it past only to get teleported back and killed instantly T_T

Dekar.2759:

Doomdesire.9365:

This thread summed up in one picture

More like…good episode though.

I loved that episode

“I THOUGHT THIS WAS MURICA”

Paxi.1386:

Weird I see a ton of people referring to SoR as Rank 1, now i’m no chest thumper but ratings in this game are determined by your overall cumulative point total. Which actually when you look at the rankings, BG is the number 1. If you actually look at BG matchup atm (we have an even one based on a numbers standpoint) you actually get to see what we can do without JQ riding on SoR’s coat tails. Hopefully most of you take this as informative, because i’m stating a fact (the ratings that is, I do not believe SoR initiates a 2v1 intentionally, but when you guys used to hit BG JQ rode your success and hit us while we were trying to stop you.).

Ratings no longer matter with the matchup change. Prior to friday SoR was 1 by quite a bit. The second we got matched with TC/SoS, even before anyone fought, we lost 100 rating. We would literally have to crush TC/SoS by a ton to earn rating, while BG doesn’t really have to do much.

To TC & SoS

You guys keep coming out and bringing fights! Much respect, even despite that fact that SoR’s coverage is pretty insane compared to TC/SoS aside from the zerg sizes that can accumulate (Sorry, T1 habits). Although I’ve noticed something very disappointing about TC…where are the dolyack parades and dueling clubs I remember? Please tell me they still exist

To BG trolls: Go troll your own thread. It’s hard to believe that SoR trolls are the worst when you are literally coming into our thread just to provoke us ^^

This thread summed up in one picture

zhonnika.1784:

I’m still not convinced SoR isn’t out there… lurking… somewhere. Creeping o_O

In the darkest alleyways of Eternal Battlegrounds there lies a train. A PAIN TRAIN OF CHOO.

Do not be out late my friend.

Man, it’s so weird seeing TC/SoS 30 man zergs. It feels dirty when you have 50 guys behind you. So used to tier 1 zerg sizes ._.

TC do you guys still have a dueling guild?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

Finally we get some new matchups

Probably soon. I doubt they will start a whole new living story arc after all the complaints they received. Personally, I like the Living Story, but I would be much more excited for a good, lengthy expansion. DB will probably come and go, my bet is after that we may see SAB P2 and then a hint at a possible expansion.

I did it yesterday on Sanctum of Rall…

Can’t stand in combat speed. There’s probably a reason for it, but it’s rather annoying and doesn’t serve any real purpose, imo.

Other than that, I think chilled and cripple are great tools, and for some classes, are absolutely essential if you want to beat a good warrior in a duel(if they run a melandru build and you’re a necro who relies on chills, good luck! You’ll need it!)

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

So this is not a thread about the “cheapness” of stealth? Are you sure about that? Because it sure seems like one to me

Also

Definition of argument = “An exchange of diverging or opposite views”

Learn what an argument is before you comment about it.

I am glad you can use google. Now if you could fine the opposite view that actually stands a counter point then I would be happy to converse.

Now I’m completely dumbfounded. I listed the definition and you still deny anything that presents a counter point.

Even the annoying “l2p” comments are counterpoints. Stealth is cheap? “No it’s not, you just need to l2p” That’s a counter point.

Either you are a downright troll, in which case, 10/10 or you are completely ignorant and dismiss arguments that have been presented right in front of your eyes.

I’m sure you could probably land a 35K one given that you use full zerker ascended, a might stacking build via signets, bloodlust, force, and impact sigils(after using basilik) on a low level, naked warrior with frenzy.

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

So basically it’s an argument if you say it’s an argument? I guess you have no clue as to what an argument is.

No, I understand what the thread is about, while you have been swinging around at a “stealth” thread.

(that is a pun encase you missed it).

So this is not a thread about the “cheapness” of stealth? Are you sure about that? Because it sure seems like one to me

Also

Definition of argument = “An exchange of diverging or opposite views”

Learn what an argument is before you comment about it.

Sunflowers.1729:

Doomdesire.9365:

I don’t kill people just to force them to walk and repair bills. I kill people because it’s fun. If he runs away, I don’t get that satisfaction, but I still won

That means you find it fun to just kill people.

Personally, I’d be pretty annoyed if everyone that I ‘won’ against didn’t drop any loot (it would still be fun, but less).

I still don’t agree with the ‘Thief escape = you win’ sentiment. What if we made it so any time a Thief kills someone, the Thief gets no loot or WXP? He still ‘wins’ right? But the flood of complaints would crash the forums.

True, and I can sympathize for those who have opposing viewpoints of “winning”. However this is just my IMHO as to what a fight should be. I don’t necessarily have to win, but it’s the competitive factor of it. When I roam on my guardian most thieves can escape, few win, but if they run because they are going to die, I know they lost, and they do too ^^

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

People have, you just brush it off and ignore any evidence by insulting the people who provide some.

The only thing close to trying to discuss the opposite is the comment where they said “Put your back against the wall”. Even then, that is a 0.000001 millimeter thick argument.

If anything this helps prove the fact further that stealth is a cheap ability if you are forced to fight near towers/keeps/hills just in to combat it. Also, in reality this will do nothing to hamper the Thieves ability to stealth or do damage (it is bad advice in general).

So basically it’s an argument if you say it’s an argument? I guess you have no clue as to what an argument is.

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

By multiple avenues of stealth outside dodgeable CnD you mean

Hide in shadows – A thief who wastes his hide in shadows without needing to heal is setting himself up for disaster
Blinding Powder – 3s stealth on a 40s cooldown
Shadow Refuge – Generally the thief’s escape tool, shadow refuge is often used when you need to GTFO out of there.

Realistically speaking, blinding powder is the only reliable stealth outside of CnD on an offhand dagger thief that reliable as “other avenues of stealth” when we’re talking about offensively landing a backstab.

Again, you are wrong. There are more stealth than what you listed and trying to sway a argument with false claims is bad practice.

Just to name a few more:
Blackpowder+Heartseeker
Smokescreen+Cluster Bomb
Steal (when traited)
Many traits…..

As stated… They have multiple avenues.

Please learn the class.

Which of these besides BP+HS(Too powerful, I agree on that) is of any real use?

Smokescreen + clusterbomb, you mean the auto reveal if your target is anywhere close to the smokescreen with half a brain?

Steal on stealth, you mean the broken trait that even without autoattack has a 50/50 chance of auto revealing you?

I have >1300 hours in WvW. Out of all those hours, I’ve seen maybe two thieves use SS +CB combo, and maybe 5 who have used the stealth granting steal trait. They aren’t reliable. Not nearly as much as the stealth you can gain from BP/SR even shadow trap

Hit or miss. Once threw 50G worth of exotics into the forge and got the Lover, decided to try my luck again(greed) and lost 700G in a day and pretty much rose every level 75 exotic price up 30s

Vanthian.9267:

No Walking.6349:

Ranger is an OP class? Thieves are impossible to kill? My god man you really need to learn how to play this game.

You are either blind or illiterate. Rangers are currently the best duelist class in game. Not many people will argue against this fact.

Yes Thieves choose to fight or run with ease. Does this make them great? No, it makes them cheap. The point of this thread is to highlight this fact, which it does well considering no one has actually offered a decent counter argument.

People have, you just brush it off and ignore any evidence by insulting the people who provide some.

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

Then you prevent that by dodging the CnD. It’s extremely noticeable. Also, all melee thieves are going for one target when they stealth – your back. Knowing this you can predict where the thief will attempt to move in order to land the backstab. If you are an AoE heavy class, AoEs are your feet work well. If you are a melee, your auto attack rotation is an indicator of wether you hit them or not. Guardians and Warriors also have blocks. If there is a wall you can use, place your back against the wall.

Again, I am not complaining about losing. The skill is cheap and they dont’ have to be on you to stealth. Thieves have multiple avenues of stealth (why do I need to explain this to thieves?).

Thieves also have quite a few unblock able attacks. Your newly buffed 3 on sword is a great example.

There is not always a wall and I shouldn’t be forced into a certain fighting style to face one profession. That shows bad balanced and design. I should be able to use my skills wisely to counter as the fight goes on not rely on terrain to win. Is it nice to be able to use the terrain? Yes, but I should not be forced into using it to win.

By multiple avenues of stealth outside dodgeable CnD you mean

Hide in shadows – A thief who wastes his hide in shadows without needing to heal is setting himself up for disaster
Blinding Powder – 3s stealth on a 40s cooldown
Shadow Refuge – Generally the thief’s escape tool, shadow refuge is often used when you need to GTFO out of there.

Realistically speaking, blinding powder is the only reliable stealth outside of CnD on an offhand dagger thief that reliable as “other avenues of stealth” when we’re talking about offensively landing a backstab.

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

A) You would not kill me

B) If you run away I still win

Winning isn’t making someone get repair bills. It’s knowing you outplayed them.

A) You assume a lot, over confidence does not equate skill.

B) False, it is a tie if you run. If no one dies, no one wins.

A) Then 1v1 and we will find out

B) Seems we have a different definition of winning then. You also don’t seem the get the design of ‘thief’. Now say it again out loud ‘thief’. What does a thief do? Attack, steal, then get away

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

Arganthium.5638:

So why don’t you duel me in-game with a thief, and then we can see how little skill they require?

I’ll also be willing to accept this challenge. Any thief vs my guardian.

Never really lost a 1v1 against one, and I 1v1 alot.

Again, you fail to realize the point of the thread. Even if we did duel, I could easily stealth away and deprive you of the kill very easily or if you are not as good as you claim I would kill you.

A) You would not kill me

B) If you run away I still win

Winning isn’t making someone get repair bills. It’s knowing you outplayed them.

Vanthian.9267:

Jumper.9482:

Actually, there is plenty of play/counter play to entering stealth.
There is Dagger offhand (rarely used) Cloak and Dagger which is a huge tell and dodge/interruptible with a HUGE initiative cost.
There is Thief stolen ability and Hide in Shadows(heal) which both have obvious animations and easily interruptable.
There’s the D/P Black Powder Heartseeker which is again, interruptible and extremely easy to read.
And there’s the most easy of all to counter, Shadow refuge, aka. knock him out of the circle or just kill him.

The only “uncounterable” stealth a thief has is Blinding Powder, a 40sec cd utility noone uses.

There is no counter to stealth. Once they are stealth, that is it. They will only be reveled once they hit something (choose to come out) or the stealth runs out (3 seconds/4 seconds (most thievies)/ or the annoying 16 seconds). None of these things are negative and prove there is 0 skilled play that can counter someone in stealth. The best you can do is guess which way he went and swing in the air.

Then you prevent that by dodging the CnD. It’s extremely noticeable. Also, all melee thieves are going for one target when they stealth – your back. Knowing this you can predict where the thief will attempt to move in order to land the backstab. If you are an AoE heavy class, AoEs are your feet work well. If you are a melee, your auto attack rotation is an indicator of wether you hit them or not. Guardians and Warriors also have blocks. If there is a wall you can use, place your back against the wall.

rogerwilko.6895:

two questions from a guys who mains a necro:
1). P/D condition thief: won`t he/she be in trouble if he will not be able to go melee and C&D ? What if in 1v1 your opponent will dodge / evade when you C&D or you simply miss?

2). 2 x ‘giver’ weps = +20% cond duration? Are you sure they stack ?

Thank you.

1) Yes they will be in alot of trouble against someone who stays out of melee range. In particular spamming aoe’s at their feet and dodging CnD.

2) Yup, they stack. Tested yesterday with 2X giver’s pistol & dagger

Arganthium.5638:

So why don’t you duel me in-game with a thief, and then we can see how little skill they require?

I’ll also be willing to accept this challenge. Any thief vs my guardian.

Never really lost a 1v1 against one, and I 1v1 alot.

nglcpyro.4906:

Very random question… But any idea which of our servers has the largest W3 Anet employee population? Only ever seen an employee once who was an animator and that was in lobby for Wintersday jumping puzzle.

I know JonPeters and his crew play on SoR. I remember him talking about balancing in SoR LA and then later that day running with him and a few other Anet Devs in a WvW zerg @ EB

Question for SoS. Are you guys putting in any overtime? If not, I’m seriously impressed that you’ve guys have managed to hold your own so well against servers two tiers above.

/ clap

Most thieves use Mug as an opener, so it really doesn’t make sense that it steals life. I would much rather have it apply more conditions other than the existing one.

Could have sworn it was a nunchuck

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You don’t seem to understand. When you look at the grand scheme of a battle, you count the total amount of HP healed during the entire fight, not the total amount of HP healed in a certain amount of time. You get a passive ability that heals for quite a bit, but then you also get an active ability as a backup. The active ability should never be that powerful.

Hell, even without the passive, your suggestion puts SoM’s active healing above that of any personal healing in the game. 8.5K guardian signet doesn’t even match the amount of healing.

tl;dr

I never said you get passive during CD, so no clue as to where you got that from. I’m telling you that you get passive healing, and THEN, active healing as a backup, which your suggestion is OP when you factor in both the passive healing before the active.

Since you can’t play what your saying in a real battle, TL;DR, your just wrong. sorry

you’re

Also, it seems you lack the intelligence to comprehend what I am stating, as all you’ve done is state the same thing over and over.

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

You can’t ATTACK while in stealth. THE ACTIVE cancels the passive for its duration…

You don’t seem to understand. When you look at the grand scheme of a battle, you count the total amount of HP healed during the entire fight, not the total amount of HP healed in a certain amount of time. You get a passive ability that heals for quite a bit, but then you also get an active ability as a backup. The active ability should never be that powerful.

Hell, even without the passive, your suggestion puts SoM’s active healing above that of any personal healing in the game. 8.5K guardian signet doesn’t even match the amount of healing.

tl;dr

I never said you get passive during CD, so no clue as to where you got that from. I’m telling you that you get passive healing, and THEN, active healing as a backup, which your suggestion is OP when you factor in both the passive healing before the active.

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

We heal for 2700 every time we go into stealth with a trait, now 5.3k heal suddenly makes you rambo?

5.3K on top of that 2700 + life gained from passive before activation, yeah I would assume so.

The problem with pistol is that you have two builds

P/D condition, which is very powerful

and P/P direct damage, which is weak.

You can’t really buff one without imbalancing the other, by either making it too powerful or too weak

Although you could outright turn P/P into a condition set by adding conditions to unload and taking away the vulnerability from #2, replacing it with something of more use such as poison, blind, ect

Personally I would love if #2 applied poison for 4s base, and not that horrible vulnerability.

Daecollo.9578:

Doomdesire.9365:

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

You can’t have both active/passive.

Of course not, that should have been implied

Passive will be able to sustain you for quite a while. When you start to take enough HP so that you need to heal, you still have a 5.3K heal that has a CD of 15 seconds.

I would like to know where you got 500 from.

You added another 200 HP than what it really is. It’s ~400 if you spec with FULL healing gear, which very few thieves do because healing gear on a thief isn’t nearly worth it as other professions.

There’s just something about 5275 healing on a 15s cooldown with passive healing that seems to much. I would literally never die.

Karolis.4261:

Fade.7658:

Doomdesire.9365:

There is a 100% condition duration cap. The max you can get with vital shot and sneak attack is 8s(it may say higher on the toolbar if you have >100% duration, but the max is 8 seconds). With that in mind, I would recommend you using.

0/0/30/20/20

Giver’s pistol
Giver’s dagger
Superior sigil of agony
Sigil of corruption
Rare Veggie
Master Tuning

That will result in 7s bleeds as it rounds up from 6.5+(1s less than the max) but at the same time provides an entire rune set at your disposal which can do much more damage than that extra 1s tick.

Hope I helped!

Are you sure it rounds up? I’ve never really paid attention to that close of a duration, and always opted to hit the 75% mark when striving for a lot of duration.

No it doesnt round up, it only rounds down. 6.9 second is still 6 bleed ticks.

I just tested. It rounds up, however when you shoot someone and look at the time, say you have 7s, it will show 6s, but it’s the full 7.

3 is very useful but also very situational. Stealth isn’t always the answer and at times you just need to get out of the direct area to avoid dying. Perfect example is the ranger branch immobilize. 3 Hits that, teleports you back, lose the immobilize, leave the direct area where all the damage if focused on.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Doomdesire.9365:

There is a 100% condition duration cap.

Is this for Sneak Attack bleeds or general conditions? I have a 23 second bleed on my Deathblossom. I know thats what the tooltip says and I’m pretty sure I saw over 20s on the bleed timer when testing. Could be wrong though. Its much easier to increase duration with a 10s bleed then a 4s bleed though so is it just that the 9s mark is tough to hit?

**Just tested and you are correct, caps at 100%, tooltip is wrong.

Blood~

As far as I know all thief skills have a cap, although the base bleed durations vary. Both sneak attack and vital are capped at 8s max. I think there are some necro bleed skills that don’t have a cap, but I never checked since I don’t play a necro.