Guild Wars 2

StinkyLord.7950:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Same here, I would never ever call anyone who made it to diamond last season a bad player. And @easter I understand how you feel, being on both side of the coins but I am advice to you is to not give up. Team up with a good team mate just to get out of where you are stuck. Solo q ing , in low tier, this season has been HORRIBLE unless you are one of those lucky few.

you cannot do that since you are basically pulling him down with the spiral you are running into already.

Well

Pakkazull.6894:

Fivedawgs.4267:

I never said anything about the system not being competitve; so first LEARN TO READ. Second, lots of people have reported 500-100 from amber till saphire or ruby, my question to you is WHERE IS THE COMPETITION IN THAT???

Lol what? You literally contradict yourself like four sentences in.

Oh let me guess, the competivity of the whole system is based upon the first four league and not the system as whole??? Uhm.. I got you, maybe you should learn to read as well. Second, I was responding to his statement and I quote “The system being a competitive ladder has nothing to do with individual games being competitive or not.”. So for him the ladder, not the player experience is the barometer of competition. By making the ladder competitive, resusltabtly every other games has to be as well.

Maybe you pay more attention to what is being responded to.

Same here, I would never ever call anyone who made it to diamond last season a bad player. And @easter I understand how you feel, being on both side of the coins but I am advice to you is to not give up. Team up with a good team mate just to get out of where you are stuck. Solo q ing , in low tier, this season has been HORRIBLE unless you are one of those lucky few.

Zoose.1640:

Since the season is so short they should just implement placement matches and have it go from there. Last season for me was actually good towards the end because it did weed out a lot of players and I was already Legend x6, so most of my matches were quality matches.

I was talking on stream today about how discouraging it would be for a new player and also as to how easy it is to obtain Legendary even for fairly above average players, so why not just speed your process up by having placement matches instead of having good players grind and force lesser players to lose constantly vs that.

This^^^ .. but some people are so sticker up on their side that they fail to see the bigger picture. Thanks for your input ZOOSE.

Now we have 3 pro player on this thread alone giving their take on the system.

jessiestiles.9437:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I would definitely be interested in this. I have been contacted a lot, both by mean trolls (I know, I suck) and kind souls and also by people who understand the system is defective and punishing to solo que players.

I took the advice of many and made a free alt char on a HoT account. I immediately went into spvp. In one day, I am in sapphire, caught on the winning side tide. How is this possible? I can I be a sapphire player on one account in one day on an alt char playing the same exact build as I did on day one. What’s the difference? How is this possible? Did my skill really improve dramatically in 6 days (despite the fact that I purportedly suck on my other character after nearly 3 years of pvping on it). The only difference I see is the playing field.

I don’t know how the MMR works exactly but new players start at mid point MMR. So if you did great on a new account and terribly on your regular account then the system has put your MMR below that of an average or new person for god knows what reason and it’s steadily gotten worse. It’s a major flaw especially for people who aren’t interested in joining a team.

Lots of people have been having success by making new account. This surely explain why someone who took a 6 month break is having no trouble climbing up at all since his MMR was averaged by the system. While those who played last season got punished, that is if you have an MMR below 50%. Interesting indeed.

Akachi.1352:

Personally I don’t think MMR is the sole reason for massive losing streaks, in SoloQ. I think it’s partly down to team comp as well. Obviously if you queue as a team you can select the perfect comp, to get the most balanced play. However in SoloQ, you are at the mercy of chance, and could be partied against a team that had the perfect comp while you have 4 warriors + 1 DH. You will obviously lose that March up. Something should be done to limit the number of a certain profession or team in SoloQ.

Obviously MME does have something to do with losing streaks, but these two are tightly linked, I.e. get rubbish comp -> lose match -> MMR drops -> etc.

Although true, but the party comp argument doesn’t hold enough weight since they system allow you to switch toons.

I agree with evrything you said since I mean warrior. Hence why, I keep on telling people HIGH MMR doesn’t always equate to skill. An average skilled rev, as it stand, can have a better MMR than me.

Well, it’s pretty clear that you are suffering from source monitoring, since you have included your answer to someone else in your reply. But let me enlighten you, I know English can be difficult sometimes.3 so I’ll take my time.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fay.2357:

skullfaerie.7203:

Fay.2357:

A competitive ladder

This ladder system is supposed to be competitive? Thanks for the giggles.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fay, just because your games are competitive doesn’t mean everyone is having the same experience; The system is so random atm, that some people aren’t having same gaming experience as you?? Why because the system match X against X. So, it’s totally random; so try not to be close minded and look down on folks who are having issues with the system.

The system being a competitive ladder has nothing to do with individual games being competitive or not.

A= I never said anything about the system not being competitve; so first LEARN TO READ. Second, lots of people have reported 500-100 from amber till saphire or ruby, my question to you is WHERE IS THE COMPETITION IN THAT??? Those same people said that their games got pretty competitive/close as they kept on going up the ladder. Based on the statements above, even a MONKEY could make the corrolation with amber = one sided games/ non competitive and Higher tier = Competition. Now the correlation does not have to be complete b3cause the MM formula used is bound to vary.

It’s a competitive ladder in the sense that progression is *NOT guaranteed, and only by consistently high performance will you progress on the later parts of it.*

A= Where did I say anything about progression being garantee??? DUDE LEARN TO READ, IF you want I’ll enroll you in one those public library program because this is ludicrous

It is not designed to be a reward system purely due to quantity of games played. It is designed as a merit-based, competitive ladder.

A = Well, it’s pretty clear that you are here for the sole purpose of a advancing your agenda. I never said ANY OF THE ABOVE TO YOU. So learn TO READ.

Did it succeed in this? Maybe. Probably not. However, regardless of the success, that’s how the design is built.

So, where is the competition when Wakkey duo or Best Team NA or pro players are match against low MMR players??? Where did i say anything about progression being garanteed? ?? TF are you on dude?? Can you even read???? I am saying winning a game 500 to 100 or losing one by the same margin is NOT COMPETITIVE. THAT’S WHAT FOLKS IN AMBER., LOW TIER EMERALD are experiencing. And Learn to read dude.

But I thought good player could carry their team?? So OP, you are having trouble carrying pro thieves?? But the demi gods said…

Oh well, joke aside though, what Rome said is pretty valid.

killahmayne.9518:

Fivedawgs.4267:

killahmayne.9518:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Remember that the enemy has condition duration increases as well.

Svanir + Dogged March reduces condis by about 83%. Most of the extra condi duration is going to be mitigated regardless. Of course though with Hoelbrak it only makes it 53%, which, in that case you kind of have to consider condi duration.

Nope, svarinir + dogged march only reduced chill by 83% while other condi are kept at a 33% red. With hoelbrak + dogged march, everything is reduced to 53%.

Thats what I meant, just forgot to mention chill. But Warrior also has other options for condi removal like Cleansing Ire, Brawler’s Recovery, Mending, etc not to mention some options for resistance. I think we can agree though that chill is probably the strongest condi and that reducing it by 83% is huge, despite a necro having condi duration. Chill just makes it uber difficult to gap close plus it reduces skill recharges, so mitigating that is pretty vital.

I agree

Fay.2357:

skullfaerie.7203:

Fay.2357:

A competitive ladder

This ladder system is supposed to be competitive? Thanks for the giggles.

Supposed to be? Absolutely. Is? That’s where you’re allowed to giggle.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fay, just because your games are competitive doesn’t mean everyone is having the same experience; The system is so random atm, that some people aren’t having same gaming experience as you?? Why because the system match X against X. So, it’s totally random; so try not to be close minded and look down on folks who are having issues with the system.

The system being a competitive ladder has nothing to do with individual games being competitive or not. It’s a competitive ladder in the sense that progression is NOT guaranteed, and only by consistently high performance will you progress on the later parts of it. It is not designed to be a reward system purely due to quantity of games played. It is designed as a merit-based, competitive ladder.

Did it succeed in this? Maybe. Probably not. However, regardless of the success, that’s how the design is built.

So, where is the competition when Wakkey duo or Best Team NA or pro players are match against low MMR players??? Where did i say anything about progression being garanteed? ?? TF are you on dude?? Can you even read???? I am saying winning a game 500 to 100 or losing one by the same margin is NOT COMPETITIVE. THAT’S WHAT FOLKS IN AMBER., LOW TIER EMERALD are experiencing. And Learn to read dude.

Lol marvin, we wanted you to win against rank 55 bro !!! Kappa… jk and grats dude

I can actually kill a bunker ele alone, it usually take 1 min max; yeah, I am struggling with malice, venom thief/ condi thief. OK, now that I think of it struggling is an exaggeration but I am loosing 70% of my 1 vs 1 against them.

Fay, just because your games are competitive doesn’t mean everyone is having the same experience; The system is so random atm, that some people aren’t having same gaming experience as you?? Why because the system match X against X. So, it’s totally random; so try not to be close minded and look down on folks who are having issues with the system.

Day 6- failed to get to saphire t3 but made it saphire t2. The 2 bunker ele meta is pretty strong up here; kept on losing 1 vs 1 against malice thieves… I guess thats the next hurdle for me.

BUILD = POWER WARRIOR ..

AegisFLCL.7623:

Fivedawgs.4267:

AegisFLCL.7623:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Seyiwaji.4082:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

LIE may be you should read again

This means that you’ll generally get paired with and against players in your division that are of similar skill levels.

And how do you get pair with player with and against players in your divison that are similar level skills when everyone start in amber? Enlighten me.

To dumb it down for you, how will Anet be able to make 5 vs 5 when everyone 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 Starr in the same division, and 5 are group together with 5 and match against X???
I’ll wait.

Edit: in order to avoid this back and forth you do release that throughout the league you have a 10% chance of having a 5 vs 5, right??

Without knowing the mmr of all the players in the game you have no way to figure out the percent chance to win. Better players will account for more influence on the match whereas worse players will likely be a detriment. You cannot flat out say a single player accounts for 10% because skill levels are different. Stop digging yourself further into a whole you cannot factually argue out of.

So, do you agree with me then? You said “Better player account more influence on the match whereas worse players will be a detriment”. Eh I AGREEE, and since MMR doesn’t always equate to skills, using your own words, you d agree with me that a goo player with a kittenty MMR, has a 75% chance of losing his game since the system will always match him with other low MMR players.

It’s true I don’t know the MMR range of every players, but my point still stand; few are those who get 5 vs 5 games. I mean how hard is it to get?? And as the time goes by? A Low MMR player will get out of amber/ emerald only to get farm by the people above him,why?? Because the system will group folks above him, due to their MMR, and match those folks against him. And guess who will be this low player teammates? ?

Any system which matches folks against X is faulty, that’s the take home point here.

No I’m not agreeing or supporting what you said. I’m simply pointing out how you can not apply blanket statistics when there are too many unknown factors and then try and weasel it through as a fact to support your agenda.

hence my “what are those confounding factors”

Teams are made based on similar MMR, while the two teams MMR may differ from one to the next, that fact is irrelevant as the system is designed for more skilled players (higher MMR) to progress through ranks faster. You, myself, and no one else has not a clue what their actual MMR is, therefor you cannot use MMR to argue anything but the teammates you have on your team.

hence my if the MM system is irrevelant because high player have to climb faster. There matching 10 against 5 is ok, then we have nothing to discuss

Let’s put it this way…

Let’s play Life. Team 1 is full of 5 year olds, low MMR players, or in this case players with very little life experience. Team 2 is full of 80 year olds, high MMR players, or in this case players with a lot of life experience. They play a match consisting of how to get through school, work at a job, pay taxes, handle relationships, and so on.

It is quite obvious that* team 2 will be more successful and therefor win, advancing on in the ladder. Team 2 has now scored 16 pips and team 1 has 0, these two teams will never face each* other again unless the pip differential drops to 15 or below. As a result team 1 now has a better chance of playing a team closer to their MMR level. This process will repeat until player skill has been distributed throughout the ladder as it should…

hence my example about 16 or 25 years ol who are still in the same range kitten year old

I do not see what is so hard to understand about how the new system works. It is far more accurate at determining a distribution of players based on skill than the first season system was.I do have two comments however, the first being that the pip differential should be less than 15, maybe 10 or 8 when matching teams, and also that we need a placement system at the beginning of the season.

Oh grouping 5 years old and matching them against 60 years old is an accurate representation of the skills/ intelligence of those two group because you cant have a dumb 60 years. And also the 5 years will be so thrilled getting stomped by 80 40 25 and 18 years old.

I am afraid you are suffering from a case of amnesia since all you are doing is avoiding my question/answers and jumping to others. You have yet to respond my first question. And I’ll rest my case, there is no need to argue against someone who is suffering from one sidedNess or Cleary refuse to see the bigger picture.

What are those confounding factors?? And I know corrolation don’t also prove causation but still.

Using your example again, since this is life. You have at least or 5 section, so it’s not black and white. So what are the chance of 5 years old against adolescent or young adult or adult or mid forties??? Are you seeing the picture I am painting? ? One side is always favored against another. And as life goes on, the 5 year old might ended accomplishing NOTHING , since life in this case is only two month long.

And you just called the MM system IRRELEVANT, so the system on which the entirely league is build is IRRELEVANT? ?

Well, there is nothing to be said.

AegisFLCL.7623:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Seyiwaji.4082:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

LIE may be you should read again

This means that you’ll generally get paired with and against players in your division that are of similar skill levels.

And how do you get pair with player with and against players in your divison that are similar level skills when everyone start in amber? Enlighten me.

To dumb it down for you, how will Anet be able to make 5 vs 5 when everyone 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 Starr in the same division, and 5 are group together with 5 and match against X???
I’ll wait.

Edit: in order to avoid this back and forth you do release that throughout the league you have a 10% chance of having a 5 vs 5, right??

Without knowing the mmr of all the players in the game you have no way to figure out the percent chance to win. Better players will account for more influence on the match whereas worse players will likely be a detriment. You cannot flat out say a single player accounts for 10% because skill levels are different. Stop digging yourself further into a whole you cannot factually argue out of.

So, do you agree with me then? You said “Better player account more influence on the match whereas worse players will be a detriment”. Eh I AGREEE, and since MMR doesn’t always equate to skills, using your own words, you d agree with me that a goo player with a kittenty MMR, has a 75% chance of losing his game since the system will always match him with other low MMR players.

It’s true I don’t know the MMR range of every players, but my point still stand; few are those who get 5 vs 5 games. I mean how hard is it to get?? And as the time goes by? A Low MMR player will get out of amber/ emerald only to get farm by the people above him,why?? Because the system will group folks above him, due to their MMR, and match those folks against him. And guess who will be this low player teammates? ?

Any system which matches folks against X is faulty, that’s the take home point here.

No, we won’t watch your stream storm!!!! Jk, I am looking forward to it. Just wished it was postponed one hour.. but eh I can always watch the replay.

Seyiwaji.4082:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

LIE may be you should read again

This means that you’ll generally get paired with and against players in your division that are of similar skill levels.

And how do you get pair with player with and against players in your divison that are similar level skills when everyone start in amber? Enlighten me.

To dumb it down for you, how will Anet be able to make 5 vs 5 when everyone 1, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 and 10 Starr in the same division, and 5 are group together with 5 and match against X???
I’ll wait.

Edit: in order to avoid this back and forth you do release that throughout the league you have a 10% chance of having a 5 vs 5, right??

AegisFLCL.7623:

Anyone on either side of this argument is simply speculating. We have only a statement as to how match making was “supposed” to work for this season, and not a single concrete fact or data actually proving something (that isn’t simply user testimony).

There are two major problems I see:

- Many player’s were carried, abused group queue, or abused Stronghold comps to progress to a rank/tier in which they don’t belong in (I’ve seen some god awful “primordial legend players” in my ruby games). This essentially can create the illusion that player’s on average think they’re much better than they truly are.

- The second issue is that there is no form of placement matching or system. This is mandatory for a healthy pvp population, both low end and high. Players hate to be farmed, and generally I’ve seen most above average players bored out of their mind farming blowout games.

I completely understand why player’s are unhappy, but since hitting ruby games are progressively getting both harder and much more enjoyable to play; my ruby games this season are tougher than games I had in diamond and legendary in S1. I really do believe this system functions better, but due to the two issues above a lot of players are unhappy.

It is also sad to see so many complaint threads about match making, and only seeing one thread on occasion asking for help on how to improve. I think a lot of players should stop and think about what may be causing these losing streaks rather than coming to the forums and generally posting non cohesive complaints about match making with no collective data to prove a thing.

Have you read this thread?? What else are you looking for?? It’s written in black and white below, they group player with similar MMR together and match them against other player with MMR different from them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Upcoming-Changes-for-PvP-League-Season-2/first

So you can get 9 vs 5 or 5 vs 9, or 5 vs 5 instead of getting 5 vs 5 all the time, which lol,Dota or any competitive gane out there has.

Warlord.9074:

lol NO you all are wrong listen to me since I am the one who suggested it.

Hoelbrak + dogged march doesn’t reduce all condis by 53% It reduces all condis by 20% and chill by 53%. Immobilize and Crippler don’t do dammage so.. You are really doing this for the – chill.

…

Most the necros are running something like Curses, Soul Reaping, and reaper…And unless they are traiting lingering curse which only effects scepeters the only condi duriation increases they are getting from traits is 20% chill and 20% bleeding from reaper spec. Also Chill is a majority of their damage not other condis.

Most of the reapers are only running chill duration runes. Reaper+Waderer Amulet + Grenth Runes is 87% Chill Duration. 57% bleed Duration all other duration are base.

See what you meant, i should have specified movement impeding condis get reduced by 53% cause let’s be honest as long as we can hit a necro, we can down them with ease. But it looks as if svarinir is stronger than hoelbrak in this case. And the added protection also helps.

Hachiman.2470:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Hachiman.2470:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Hachiman.2470:

I just started this season on Saturday and didn’t lose one game until I got into the Sapphire Division. To me it seems the matchmaking is better since I was constantly going against premades in season 1. This time I haven’t seen one premade and at most the other team had 2 groups of 2. I’m just happy I don’t have to worry about going against a full premade every other game as soloq.

And btw do you know how the matchmaking system works?

Do you? What’s your point?

Yes I do, it match HIGH MMR players against LOW MMR players. My point being the system isn’t actually perfect, even though it work for you.

Okay so yes I agree it isn’t perfect. I was just stating my experience but not necessarily saying the matchmaking was the best. Most games have been blowouts for me, and that is most likely because I am being matched up with other similar MMR players that fall into the same range of PIPs I have.

To me all this means is that my teams are consistently far better than the other team. Which means I am consistently better than opposing players. Eventually I will be in a division that has MMR around mine, in the same division and I will start losing more games.

Clearly Amber & Emerald did not which is why I went on a 20 game winning streak.

Have you conifer ed the fact that the other had no chance to win because they were full of Low MMR players. And since MMR doesn’t always equate to skills, someone who is equally skilled as you but with a low MMR could have got stuck in amber because of the system.

And btw, nice winning streak dude.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

I encountered this guy “hatz” in my first ruby match and he was teleporting between far and mid throughout the match and spamming traps. I asked everyone in the match to report the guy for botting but I am keeping my fingers crossed. Although we won the match, the amount of frustration it caused was something to be seen lol.

/Edit: He was on his guardian. The name started with L.

He also hack on his mesmer, I belive his mesmer ign is Succ.

Hachiman.2470:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Hachiman.2470:

I just started this season on Saturday and didn’t lose one game until I got into the Sapphire Division. To me it seems the matchmaking is better since I was constantly going against premades in season 1. This time I haven’t seen one premade and at most the other team had 2 groups of 2. I’m just happy I don’t have to worry about going against a full premade every other game as soloq.

And btw do you know how the matchmaking system works?

Do you? What’s your point?

Yes I do, it match HIGH MMR players against LOW MMR players. My point being the system isn’t actually perfect, even though it work for you.

killahmayne.9518:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Remember that the enemy has condition duration increases as well.

Svanir + Dogged March reduces condis by about 83%. Most of the extra condi duration is going to be mitigated regardless. Of course though with Hoelbrak it only makes it 53%, which, in that case you kind of have to consider condi duration.

Nope, svarinir + dogged march only reduced chill by 83% while other condi are kept at a 33% red. With hoelbrak + dogged march, everything is reduced to 53%.

Kayberz.5346:

This is why all these “lost 999 games in a row” threads are just bullkitten.
Im willing to bet these players complaining about “lose streaks” is more like win one lose 3, win one lose one, win 2 lose 3. Then they go on forums, “lost 20 games in a row” or the second they START losing they give up or just stop actually playing well, like the OP said, they wont res the downed players, or try to peel for other people if he doesnt deem them “pro”. Its exactly that kind of attitude that makes these players lose
If your not a team player, dont expect your team to win
OP pretty much said “i dont try unless i know im being Carried”

Some have posted pics, and you can’t generalize the OP experience.

Hachiman.2470:

I just started this season on Saturday and didn’t lose one game until I got into the Sapphire Division. To me it seems the matchmaking is better since I was constantly going against premades in season 1. This time I haven’t seen one premade and at most the other team had 2 groups of 2. I’m just happy I don’t have to worry about going against a full premade every other game as soloq.

And btw do you know how the matchmaking system works?

Uete.3805:

I don’t wanna be that guy but… you do realize that this sort of feedback does nothing to improve the game, don’t you?

For starters, OP has gone to the pvp forums at the beginning of a season with whacky matchmaking (to say the least) just so that they may feed off other people’s frustrations with any part of the game. What’s exactly the point of this post? Venting?

Regarding balance… as a 2-year Necro player I don’t want to go back to 2014 balance. I get that there may be people out there that feels as Necros did two years ago when nobody wanted their class, or their minions where the most broken part of the game, or we could not life-siphon properly or… you get my point. Balance is not perfect with such a complex combat system, but I don’t think it was any better in 2014 than it is now, unless you understand balance as having the top-tier profession as your main.

Balance is a subjective term, and it depends on who you ask. For us warriors, 2014 was they year you can include thieves as well.

And also you should get mad at people who are disappointed in the system. In 2012/2014, you would have been this guy.

Lmao. .. so he finally won an Oscar. .. man those revenants! !!

Spartacus.3192:

This season is better than Season 1 BUT Anet should have RESET everyone’s MMR.

Carrying over MMR from season 1 when we all know Season 1 was terrible was a bad idea. Many cr*p players had incorrect MMR in season 1 from manipulating their MMR and/or teaming with much better players and getting carried up divisions.

I know some decent pvp’ers who have had very different experiences. One has had a very low win/loss ratio and another has had a huge win streak. I know both very well and their skill differences are no where near that big.

So, you still want then to keep the 10 vs 5 algorithm, cause even then after the good players segregated themselves from the bads; at some point the bads will catch and what do you think the outcomes of those matches will be?? A group of 5 vs a group of 10??

Arvin.3124:

Fivedawgs.4267:

… how is spvp going to grow if a new player (rank 20) cant even a win a single game??

You know why league. Smite or Dota are popular or enjoyable (subjective term)? Because they use the 50/50 algorithm; they match against people you have a 50% chance of winning or losing; unlike what we have now, where one side is GROSSLY FAVORED over the other.

I played quite a lot of Dota (500+ hours) and just want to say that in Dota first of all you have placement matches while your MMR is decided. Early season is the same in GWII pretty much, everyone starts at Amber but good players will move out quickly.

Also, taking Dota 2 since you complain about new players not being able to win, you’re considered a noob until you have at least 200 hours or so under your belt in that game, and the current meta is even harder to keep up with.

From my own experience (returning player who pretty much only pvp’s) matches are actually pretty balanced right now in most cases. There’s some outliers but in general the matches I get being close to league rank 3 are pretty even.

Amber is going to be different because everyone from the worst to semi-decent players to very good players moving up the ranks is in it. Once you move out of Amber it does get better.

If you lose 10 games in a row it is time to start analyzing your game by the way because it would sure seem like you’re in one way or the other contributing to the losses.

[/Quote]

From your reply, I can tell you two things, First you don’t know how DOTA or LOL matchmaking system works; and second you haven’tgot a clue on the new MM system. But for the sake of the argument, I’ll help. In Dota, or any other games, the system matches a team against another with both team having a 50-55% chance to win. In GW2, the system match a team ( HIGH MMR) against another team ( LOW MMR), knowing that the low MMR team has 0 chance to win. Once you understand this, or the way our system works, you d see the bigger picture.

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

@TheFamster I was actually talking about CS GO: cause you ve mentioned getting rekt in CS GO as a new player. Hence my question about ever lost or won 15 or 20 games in row, like some players are experiencing.

I played Cs 1.6 and played cs go about 5 months ago. I lost all of my 10 placement matches, won twice because my friends felt bad, and then lost 7 more in a row before I quit the game completely. I was in Silver 3 or 4 x

. Now I play Cs go once every 2 weeks in community death match servers before I get one tab headshotted. I know I can be better but I chose not to play because I know I’m not competitive enough. I don’t understand why in gw2 everyone has to be that guy who gets legendary backpiece in 2 seasons

Nope its not the legendary backpiece, its protective your new player experience. Read your own post, you quit after 7 loss, how will spvp will be able to grow if a new player (rank 20) cant even a win a single game??

You know why league. Smite or Dota are popular or enjoyable (subjective term)? Because they use the 50/50 algorithm; they match against people you have a 50% chance of winning or losing; unlike what we have now, where one side is GROSSLY FAVORED over the other.

No people are playing for the reward instead of quality pvp matchings. If people were playing for fun they can go to unranked matches and enjoy 50% win/loss ratio. The reason why people started speaking up about match making and bringing up last league’s division is because they don’t want to accept that meta carried them to their division, they are not as skilled as they thought, and still haven’t adapt to current meta. If people truly cared about matchmaking then this type of post should have been up more frequently instead of sprouting since the starting of the league.

I know how it feels to be that person. I posted this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Current-PvP-from-newcomer-s-perspective/first#post4434651

I know how exclusive pvp community is and how unbalanced the match making system and this post was from a year and a half ago. I know what people are going through but all will be better as players start move up the divisions

And how log is it going to take?? Or are you of the opinion that low MMR players should play/enjoy the entirety of rank because of their skills? Is that what you are proposing?? Esclusive spvp player should enjoy the whole month while casual spvp player shouldn’t join in until the Esclusive have moveed up the ladder.

And I do agree about the balance issue and stuff, but having a system that grossly biased as this one, is like a government official telling a home owner we are going to take away your house and there is nothing you can do about it.

From my experience (which is biased) all the pro league players and hardcore pvpers who got to play this weekend are already at sapphire and above. My solution is bring back giving 1 pip for having 500-400 matches so that everyone can eventually move up for trying. I don’t know why they removed that feature but I believe in next week or two things will settle again.

For casual pvpers, tbh they should not be expecting themselves to reach legendary/diamond division and play for 2 more seasons to get the legendary backpiece since people can eventually get it. Personally I would love to try for ESL team because $$ and fame, but my work schedule, lack of skill, and me personally prefering raid over pvp will not get me what I want and I’ll have to live with that. Even if I reach legendary in this league I won’t be able to get the backpiece since I didn’t play last season, but it is what it is.

I agree with everything said; However my issue is, the system shouldn’t favored one side over the other, which ours currently does by grouping High MMR player together against LOWER MMR players. So, it’s sort of castle system instead of meritocracy. Here are the issue this system brings:

- players with similar skills but different MMR won’t enjoy the same experience as one would be group with better player and the other with new/bad players.. So, in the long run, it becomes pretty clear that the burden of winning/advancing is on one side while the other is given a free win.

- As the system stand a new player (rank 20) has a 100% chance of losing all of his rank games this season depending on which side he ends up in. Since all new players start with an average MMR, if he ends up on HIGH MMR meta camp, he might have a chance at winning one or two games. Otherwise he will get burned for the entirety of the season.

- I agree kitten good player should climb and lower shouldnt do it apace; my issue is that the system should NOT favor one side over 5he other; instead they should give everyone an equal chance.

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

@TheFamster I was actually talking about CS GO: cause you ve mentioned getting rekt in CS GO as a new player. Hence my question about ever lost or won 15 or 20 games in row, like some players are experiencing.

I played Cs 1.6 and played cs go about 5 months ago. I lost all of my 10 placement matches, won twice because my friends felt bad, and then lost 7 more in a row before I quit the game completely. I was in Silver 3 or 4 x

. Now I play Cs go once every 2 weeks in community death match servers before I get one tab headshotted. I know I can be better but I chose not to play because I know I’m not competitive enough. I don’t understand why in gw2 everyone has to be that guy who gets legendary backpiece in 2 seasons

Nope its not the legendary backpiece, its protective your new player experience. Read your own post, you quit after 7 loss, how will spvp will be able to grow if a new player (rank 20) cant even a win a single game??

You know why league. Smite or Dota are popular or enjoyable (subjective term)? Because they use the 50/50 algorithm; they match against people you have a 50% chance of winning or losing; unlike what we have now, where one side is GROSSLY FAVORED over the other.

No people are playing for the reward instead of quality pvp matchings. If people were playing for fun they can go to unranked matches and enjoy 50% win/loss ratio. The reason why people started speaking up about match making and bringing up last league’s division is because they don’t want to accept that meta carried them to their division, they are not as skilled as they thought, and still haven’t adapt to current meta. If people truly cared about matchmaking then this type of post should have been up more frequently instead of sprouting since the starting of the league.

I know how it feels to be that person. I posted this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Current-PvP-from-newcomer-s-perspective/first#post4434651

I know how exclusive pvp community is and how unbalanced the match making system and this post was from a year and a half ago. I know what people are going through but all will be better as players start move up the divisions

And how log is it going to take?? Or are you of the opinion that low MMR players should play/enjoy the entirety of rank because of their skills? Is that what you are proposing?? Esclusive spvp player should enjoy the whole month while casual spvp player shouldn’t join in until the Esclusive have moveed up the ladder.

And I do agree about the balance issue and stuff, but having a system that grossly biased as this one, is like a government official telling a home owner we are going to take away your house and there is nothing you can do about it.

Nase.3972:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Your post is full of legit assumptions but how, on what basis on you denying those folks claim when anet current system:

Group low MMR players and match them up against High MMR players

Since, MMR is not always indicative of skills, with the current system a good player can indeed get stuck in amber. My question to you is, what aren’t you getting?? If there is a possibility, what makes you doubt what others are saying??

My basis is first hand experiences with players who makes questionable decisions on what the team should be committing too, questionable decisions that inevitably brought the team down as well as their moral will to continue. I told you this isn’t about MMR yet you would jump the gun at the sight of a contrarian who speaks truth? We all, as human beings, have an ideal image of ourselves that aren’t as indicative of who we truly are which applies to the great deal of players who are still in amber.

There’s quite a few diamonds and rubies who got out of amber through skill, e.g. class knowledge, rotation understandings, and general mechanics of the game. I won’t use the “if they can do it, why can’t you?” argument Because the answer is simply: you’re not at that level yet

Wait, aren’t you generalizing your experience?? Or have I read you wrong??

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

@TheFamster I was actually talking about CS GO: cause you ve mentioned getting rekt in CS GO as a new player. Hence my question about ever lost or won 15 or 20 games in row, like some players are experiencing.

I played Cs 1.6 and played cs go about 5 months ago. I lost all of my 10 placement matches, won twice because my friends felt bad, and then lost 7 more in a row before I quit the game completely. I was in Silver 3 or 4 x

. Now I play Cs go once every 2 weeks in community death match servers before I get one tab headshotted. I know I can be better but I chose not to play because I know I’m not competitive enough. I don’t understand why in gw2 everyone has to be that guy who gets legendary backpiece in 2 seasons

Nope its not the legendary backpiece, its protective your new player experience. Read your own post, you quit after 7 loss, how is spvp going to grow if a new player (rank 20) cant even a win a single game??

You know why league. Smite or Dota are popular or enjoyable (subjective term)? Because they use the 50/50 algorithm; they match against people you have a 50% chance of winning or losing; unlike what we have now, where one side is GROSSLY FAVORED over the other.

CMNico.2913:

Well, people who are lucky enough to be outside of that vicious losing streak will, of course, defend this system. But what i am saying is that intentionally making experienced players to farm newbies is just plain wrong. It is ok if it was a random match setup, but game does that deliberatelly

Some people will try their best to misunderstand your post. Talking about being biased.

Nase.3972:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Your post is full of legit assumptions but how, on what basis on you denying those folks claim when anet current system:

Group low MMR players and match them up against High MMR players

Since, MMR is not always indicative of skills, with the current system a good player can indeed get stuck in amber. My question to you is, what aren’t you getting?? If there is a possibility, what makes you doubt what others are saying??

My basis is first hand experiences with players who makes questionable decisions on what the team should be committing too, questionable decisions that inevitably brought the team down as well as their moral will to continue. I told you this isn’t about MMR yet you would jump the gun at the sight of a contrarian who speaks truth? We all, as human beings, have an ideal image of ourselves that aren’t as indicative of who we truly are which applies to the great deal of players who are still in amber.

There’s quite a few diamonds and rubies who got out of amber through skill, e.g. class knowledge, rotation understandings, and general mechanics of the game. I won’t use the “if they can do it, why can’t you?” Because the answer is simply: you’re not at that level yet

Don’t forget to add the class they were using as well. The class someone is using has a 60% influence on the outcome of the game.

So, you have been in the gane with evrything who has been complaining? Is that what you are saying Uhm, great indeed.

@TheFamster I was actually talking about CS GO: cause you ve mentioned getting rekt in CS GO as a new player. Hence my question about ever lost or won 15 or 20 games in row, like some players are experiencing.

Your post is full of legit assumptions but how, on what basis on you denying those folks claim when anet current system:

Group low MMR players and match them up against High MMR players

Since, MMR is not always indicative of skills, with the current system a good player can indeed get stuck in amber. My question to you is, what aren’t you getting?? If there is a possibility, what makes you doubt what others are saying??

TheFamster.7806:

Fivedawgs.4267:

TheFamster.7806:

Why are people using last league’s division rank as standpoint/measuring point? Last league’s meta was so bad and forgiving that there literally weren’t any drastic skill difference apart from pro league players/players at the top and average pvpers . Also before anet fixed queue with amber to advance to the division almost everyone I knew who played PvP “casually”, like played for daily matches for giggles got into legendary, diamond, ruby etc. Hell after seeing bunker chronomancer most of pvp friends that I had quit or moved onto different gamemode and myself as well.

Last year’s league is done! It does not properly gauge one’s skill. This league’s meta reflects not only personal skill but map awareness, rotation, secondary objectives, etc, basically much better than last league and also more difficult/skill based. If you were on bunkering classes and carried the team or survived through boredom last league, well time to change and actually try playing stuff that punishes you for the mistakes.

People that I know play regularly or had in-depth knowledge about gw2 combat system has already moved on to ruby and beyond. You can blame your teammates, team comp and matchmaking but you may be the part of the problem. I already see so many people trying to play 3 points and lose games, so many people not even bother cleaving the dead body as last meta they were rezzed easily, etc. All the bad habits from last league are still carried over to current meta so unlearn them.

I’m not telling you to get better or git gud. I’m telling you to adapt to the current meta, count dodges, play smart and start making strategies based on your team comp, enemy team comp and rotations. According to people on the forum I should have never escaped Amber since last league I played 5 games and lost twice. But I’m in ruby tier 5 right now and keep going despite winning or losing streak. If a guy who took 6 month break from pvp comes back and starts enjoying/winning matches, so can you.

Could say the same about this season, skills are not required to level up since all you have to do is play rev scrapper or reaper and have a high MMR. Why?? Because anet will constantly match you against Low MMR players.

And about the last season, it depends on who you ask. The MM system last season was a lot better than this one since it was based on the 50/50 even though the system as a whole wasn’t. This season they have the right system but the formula is faulty.

And about your post, your MMR carried you out of amber. That’s a FACT. You can’t dispute it, folks with the same skills as you but low MMR,weren’t as lucky as you since the system gave them bad teammates.

I can tell you for the fact that I have not played scrapper or reaper at all. In fact I played scrapper the day before league and got myself absolutely handed to me, and then I turned on to revenant. Now we all know with condi mesmer and condi necro around my choice of profession would be poor. There were many games that I lost 500-22, 500-40 etc, but I also won a lot of comeback games such as 500-490, 500-370, etc down from 0-200. I did rage a lot in team chat when my teammates pushed for 3 points when we only had 1 bunker (scrapper/ele) in the team, made dumb rotation, zerged and mowed down but I never gave up.

I also hit the sapphire t4/t5 wall and was stuck there for 6 hours when I played pvp literally every minute of the day. I raged, almost broke my keyboard, thought about uninstalling, but I decided to calm myself down, start over again and try to win one match at a time. My rank up game from sapphire to Ruby was the best game I ever had, my team coming back from 100-400 to 500-489. One thing I kept typing on team chat was never give up and lets try our best.

I lost 2 games in amber when I first started, but I kept working my way up. I never had anything like 15 win streak, more like 9 at most and then losing some games and then climbing back again. My MMR isn’t that great since I played less than 1800 games before pvp league and then I took break for 6 months from PvP. I am the guy in solo queue who tells people where to go and why during ready to formulate strategy, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. The point is I do everything I can to win the game and if I lose, I accept it.

I am now in ruby tier 5 and for past day and a half I was stuck at ruby tier 1 and 2. I raged so much that my pve guild mates formed their own pvp team without me and created their own passworded channel to stop me from entering their conversation. I accept it, I move on, and I will probably try to find a decent team so that I can start playing in AG tournaments. I assure you being a revenant in this meta especially when other team has 2 necros and 2 condi mesmer is very difficult, but I always do my best

Anyways revs are god tier atm, and before we go back and forth, let me ask you this simple question. DO you know how the current MM system works? If not i’ll advise you to so some research on it.

TheFamster.7806:

There’s always unranked for people to enjoy. I get dominated when I play competitive CS GO matches. I don’t complain about match making, I just either try to get better or play casual/dm/community servers.

Keep in mind that you were once “no clue, 400AP, 1v1 of point all the time. Who think taking down the npcs is the most important part of pvp or just folding like paper when a enemy breathe on then”. You are advocating the same thing that many pvpers before HoT were asking about: not letting casuals/noobs play pvp.

But do you ever lose 15 games. In row or does the system purposely match you against better player ALL THE TIME??

TheFamster.7806:

Why are people using last league’s division rank as standpoint/measuring point? Last league’s meta was so bad and forgiving that there literally weren’t any drastic skill difference apart from pro league players/players at the top and average pvpers . Also before anet fixed queue with amber to advance to the division almost everyone I knew who played PvP “casually”, like played for daily matches for giggles got into legendary, diamond, ruby etc. Hell after seeing bunker chronomancer most of pvp friends that I had quit or moved onto different gamemode and myself as well.

Last year’s league is done! It does not properly gauge one’s skill. This league’s meta reflects not only personal skill but map awareness, rotation, secondary objectives, etc, basically much better than last league and also more difficult/skill based. If you were on bunkering classes and carried the team or survived through boredom last league, well time to change and actually try playing stuff that punishes you for the mistakes.

People that I know play regularly or had in-depth knowledge about gw2 combat system has already moved on to ruby and beyond. You can blame your teammates, team comp and matchmaking but you may be the part of the problem. I already see so many people trying to play 3 points and lose games, so many people not even bother cleaving the dead body as last meta they were rezzed easily, etc. All the bad habits from last league are still carried over to current meta so unlearn them.

I’m not telling you to get better or git gud. I’m telling you to adapt to the current meta, count dodges, play smart and start making strategies based on your team comp, enemy team comp and rotations. According to people on the forum I should have never escaped Amber since last league I played 5 games and lost twice. But I’m in ruby tier 5 right now and keep going despite winning or losing streak. If a guy who took 6 month break from pvp comes back and starts enjoying/winning matches, so can you.

Could say the same about this season, skills are not required to level up since all you have to do is play rev scrapper or reaper and have a high MMR. Why?? Because anet will constantly match you against Low MMR players.

And about the last season, it depends on who you ask. The MM system last season was a lot better than this one since it was based on the 50/50 even though the system as a whole wasn’t. This season they have the right system but the formula is faulty.

And about your post, your MMR carried you out of amber. That’s a FACT. You can’t dispute it, folks with the same skills as you but low MMR,weren’t as lucky as you since the system gave them bad teammates.

And finally, how.many low skilled player made it to diamond last year?? What’s the barometer of being good in your opinion if the last league standing are moot ? Is it name recognition or what

Blackdagger.9670:

I just sumbitted a bug report in game just to take some developer’s attention to this issue.

I had enough seriously. I have played all day long today and I lost 9/10 games in average. Zero progress. I only get decent enemy players and weak teammates and this never changes.

Right now I am thinking to quit this game as a 3 year pvp player. I can not take this anymore seriously.

How can you explain this?

Here is my today’s ranked match history.

Im sick and tired honestly. Just check the big gap score on them. And Im playing meta only. Got 2k necro plays and 1k engi.

This is UNREAL.

Omg 500 – 6? Where is the competition there Anet?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Well, I will address and hopefully correct some of your more eggregious misstatements and misassumptions.

Personally I presume I did not have a low mmr at start of seas 2. I was in ruby, 100% solo, 2 pips from diamond. I didn’t make it cuz the last 2 days, tried to “breeze thru wins” using old losing strategies from seas 1, and it hurt my ability to get diamond and prolly my mmr too. But whatever. With a high number of games under my belt, and a 53% win ratio, I don’t think my mmr was reflective of a lower tier player. I breezed thru amber and 1st tier emerald in less than an hr day one.

Then all of sudden, my skill seems to have vanished. I started losing. The first games lost were due to the afkers etc who still thought losing games was still a good way to win this season ( I would never engage in such tactics, I always try to win). I had some dc’ers. I had some who threw games for their friends. We got stomped by rerolling/op/gimmicky teams on ts. Fine. I guess spvp is now a team sport exclusively.

In addition, once I started losing, mmr started matching me w/ poorer players (day 1-2 of seas 2). I play alot. I couldn’t save all the matches. Sometimes you just get matched w/ ppl who r not a good fit (rerolls wont help or not available) or who don’t know how to play spvp.

I am not, as arrogantly implied by many, upset about facing better players. In fact, that’s what I like about spvp – the competition. That way I can get better if I need to.

You mention that you don’t like to carry people who “don’t know what a node is.” What do you think I am encountering. How come it is perfectly okay for me to encounter people needing to be carried endlessly, but not you. I don’t understand. I paid the same amount for this game as you.

I don’t see any psychological mumbo jumbo, unless of course, anyone with emotions, opinions, and a brain is having psychological mumbo jumbo.

And please, try to refrain from telling people like me that our frustration is silly and insulting. I don’t really appreciate it. Please don’t demean my experience. I take offense at your efforts to deminimize my frustration, and others, especially since in my case, I have been playing pvp on GW for 14 years.

I am not paired with ppl in my skill level. I did not sink to this level because of my personal skill.

Think about it. My mmr is not calculated solely (or even necessarily primarily) by my personal skill level. It is calculated by the sum total of all the games I have played, and thus includes, and perhaps is primarily the result of, the personal skill levels as well the desire/ability to play exhibited by all my teammates.

This isn’t about right or wrong. There have been some horrible miscalculations and design flaws that are horribly skewed, and not panning out according to the “purist” model as designed, and consequently, the system is punishing longstanding, loyal members of the gw family, as well as punishing most casual pvp players, which unfortunately anymore, is most of the gw2 population base.

Remember, as I face more and more losses it will be impossible for me to claw my way up and in the interim, I am forced to play beneath my own personal skill level (contrary to what you may think), and it is quite frustrating and demoralizing. My last 4 matches even had players who admitted they deliberately dc’ed or akitten. They were reported, chat recorded, but so what – I still lost my pips and my downward spiral continues. What was it that I was supposed to do. I am at the bottom playing with people who don’t know how to play. There is no support. I can kill 1 v 4, but so what. If my teammates are doing nothing and 1 is afk, and the rest quit because of this, or they don’t care (cus its just one game after all), how is this my fault or reflective of my skill?

Also, as to your suggestion that players at the bottom can always go play unranked, cuz that’s where we presumably belong, is rather presumptuous. Without ever seeing any of us play, how would you know where our skill level is really at? Besides, in unranked, players go in there to fight one another one-on-one mid map or to test builds. How would that help me or anyone else, even presuming we need help and need to get better (and btw I don’t personally need help – since playing spvp since beta has taught me how to play by now). How is this suggestion a solution. You’re actually telling me to go do something else. Why don’t we all just go to pve too, and never pvp?

I am entitled to refuse to play w/ friends. That is my prerogative. If anet wanted all ranked pvp to be team based, w/friends, then anet should should make it mandatory that all people form a team in order to play ranked pvp, and should also eliminate the hotjoin button. Also, btw, my friends don’t want to risk lowering their cumulative mmr, by carrying a kitten player cuz the match-ups offer them no team support and players are often clueless about strategy or builds and sometimes, even with 2 good players, you still can’t save the team to rise up out of the lowest tiers.

Your own statement says it all: You “don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is.” Yah, its not fun. I am not enjoying it either.

I also don’t want to be “carried.” I have never been carried in pvp. I play 100% solo, and always have and always will. Its a preference. I don’t want to feel forced to do what “top players” think I should do to fix my dilemma, or to improve my fun level or skill level.

Also, my cumulative mmr is now shot forever. I will never be able to claw my way out of the bottom, probably not this season, and possibly never. Its not fun. Its the antithesis of fun. If you want to come carry me, please do so.

However, I will continue to empathize and support the same frustrations other players are experiencing as well and are quitting the game over. I don’t want GW to die. I want anet to try to fix it.

Don’t presume I play ranked pvp for the backpiece either. I don’t care about the backpiece at all. I don’t even want it. I play pvp specifically because I like strong competition. Now I must endure frustration endlessly and believe me, its not fun.

Contrary to what you say and imply, at least at it applies in my case, no matter how many times you say it or imply it, I am not a bad player. My mmr is the cumulative result of the skill levels and motivations of the teammates I get paired with, along with my personal skill and other external factors like lag, dcs, etc. I can get punished very badly if my teammates are bad. I am living proof of that.

And why is it, finally, that you emphasize your suggestions with italics, and bolding, but that is not considered drawing attention to your posts over and above what others have posted by using capital letters or other punctuation to emphasize theirs? You seem to have a nice understanding of forum rules, hence your suggestion to me as to how to post my replies. Please elucidate for me what you know of the rules that makes bolding and italics ok, but other punctuation, font types, capital letters, or other formatting means of typing emphasis are not ok. I would appreciate an education in this regard instead. Thanks for your anticipated help in this regard.

Please do not think I have not considered your viewpoint. I just think until you walk a mile in my shoes for one day in pvp, under the present system, that you are showing an amazing lack of understanding of the issues.

Also, please remember I am new to the forums. I have never felt the need to come onto the forums for anything in 14 yrs of playing gw.

+1 … nicely put

Yeah, higher MMR doesn’t not always equate to above average skill. But the majority of high MMR players are skilled though. In fact when you take everything into accounts such as the class( the high MMR player is using), how OP it is, it paints quite a nice picture. So the MMR taking everything into account, indeed a high skilled warrior would have a lower if not equal mmr to an average Rev player. So it’s a myriads of things.

And nope, I feel for them. Like I said above, it’s unacceptable.

Most people, at least pro player, substitute discpline for zerker; unless they are running gunflame. Melee warrior strengh def zerker/ strengh def discipline is lot stronger than def dis zerker. Anyways…

I understand your frustration, however some of us can’t believe since that’s all we do. Like you, I am fearful of the long term effect of this season. On the first day, all of my guild members were in the pvp lobby. These days I am seeing 1 or 2, which worry me. Idk how Anet thought it d be okay for pro to farm low mmr players.

And I thought games were very competitive in ruby?? Oh silly me.

lighter.2708:

when you are late ruby, early diamond, people will consider you throwing for playing warrior
and by people, i mean all the ESL, AG team players.

Talking about them, one of Best Team NA blame me for a loss because I was playing warrior. I was like are you serious dude. But the dude was just salty because I was able to burst his semi bunker ele.