Guild Wars 2

I’d like to see this map come back also.

Now that I’ll agree with. PvP would be improved a lot by having more players.

I offered a fact, and 3 educated opinions. You haven’t responded to any of them.

At the risk of being a bit of a bore… I stated that ranger already has a speed signet. By implication, there’s no need for a speed / mobility buff since you already have one.

I opined that Ranger is clearly optimized as a hunter / sniper. Such fighters typically ambush and so the genre doesn’t really lend itself to high mobility.

Further I compared adding high mobility to ranger to adding heavy armor to Mesmer. This was to emphasize the first opinion and hint that adding mobility would make rangers excessively powerful.

Last, I offered my assessment that the behaviour of rangers has a great deal to do with the fact that they are unpopular as team members.

hands sol.4310 a mirror

@Harbinger.8637

“There are lies, kitten ed lies and statistics” Mark Twain

We are talking perception here. It has little to do with the mechanical merits of a given class. It’s also very situational.

A turret engi is going to be in a lot of trouble in a running fight. I think the issue is really that there are a couple of classes out there that are really optimal in a certain niche.

@Sol.4310 Your post is abusive and so flagged.

For the record, I have an 80 ranger on this account. I don’t play her because I feel the class is OP. So yes, I have an idea how ranger plays.

I think that I’ll let my statement stand since you haven’t said anything that counters it.

The ranger class is specifically set up and equipped as a sniper. As such, mobility can and should be a weakness.

Ranger already has a movement speed signet. I’ve wished for that on Mesmer many times.

Asking for extreme range AND high mobility is akin to asking ANET to give Mesmer heavy armor.

The supposition that rangers aren’t wanted on top teams is not a legitimate argument for increased power.

Rather it’s an indictment of the behaviour and game play of rangers.

Based on what I’ve seen in PvP, I think matchmaking is going well most of the time.

I suspect that if we plotted match “quality” against time, there would be clusters of “bad” matches when the server population is down.

So please post good and bad matches and the time they occurred ( in Pacific Standard time )

No amount of balancing will “fix” matchmaking if the sample base ( of players ) is too small. Perhaps the answer isn’t in tweaking the matching system, but in having enough people in the mists.

@Wintersnight.3061

No, I haven’t queue’d for hotjoin in many months and currently play ranked exclusively. So again, your information is poor.

To be clear I play for fun and have played over 1000 ranked matches. That’s hardly a newbie.

Regardless, I contend that rangers are already more than powerful enough. Going further, I will re iterate that I think rangers’ problems with being on teams are social, not game mechanics.

I’ve lost my temper and talked more than a little kitten from time to time.

Still, sport implies sportsmanship. If the goal is really Esports, the players will need to act like competitors/professionals as opposed to a street gang mentality.

I’ve been making a point of bowing before matches, hoping to influence the match toward a formal dueling style.

The game would be better if there were at least informal rules of etiquette.

I don’t know where you got those stats, but they are very incorrect. I’m currently level 64 in pvp. In my ( not very ) humble opinion it’s not a question of ranger powers that keeps them off teams.

Rather, it’s ranger personality. That, coupled with OP weapons. Rangers already do more than enough damage from max range. They have immob skills and a guided missile helper. In theory they ought to be a top pick.

They aren’t. Why? I propose that it’s because of excessive trolling, bandwagon glass bearbow rangers and a resulting feeling that ranger is a faceroll class.

First, the general run of posts assume too high a skill level on the part of average pvp players and therefore distort the issue with meaningless statistics.

The longbow + pet combo is already way overpowered. Ranger has more than enough mobility as it is, the top ranged weapon, traps, frequent access to stealth.

I think it’s shameful that you ask for buffs when you’re overbuffed as it is. I also think it’s pretty lame to pretend you don’t already have a movement speed signet.

I’m just shaking my head. When I play Mesmer, a lot of my time is spent on survival. Occasional hard burst damage, yes. OP ? not by a long shot. Speaking of which, we ought to knock 25% off the ranger longbow AND their pet.

+1, Premades should only compete vs. premades.

As an alternative, make a queue rule; no more than 2 of a previous team ( one to three matches previous ) may be in a subsequent group. This would make it inconvenient for the TS enabled groups to abuse the ranked queue.

EDIT: Ravion Hawk.4736 Having re-read your post, I am in total agreement.

Win / Loss is more important, emotionally, than MMR. I think that it should be heavily weighted in matchmaking.

It’s pointless to comfort myself that I probably didn’t lose MMR when my team gets steamrollered by a group wearing “Legendary Champion” tags and as often as not the same guild.

I’m in the mid 60’s at the moment in PvP and struggling to get better. Sure, I could play 20 overmatched rounds and lose all of them without much MMR loss. It’s only the minority of players who will continue if they lose consistently though.

Do you want to be the elite in a ghost town, or do you want a healthy PvP population?

In my opinion, the lack of “top team” rangers is no evidence of it being balanced or underpowered. To the contrary, no one wants to be seen as using an easy mode class.

Yes, I’ve argued this point before. However much the ranger apologists scream otherwise, the class is OP at the moment.

There is absolutely no reason to compound it by making it even harder to close a ranger. Yeah right, add mobility to their already overstuffed suite of powers.

I lost count, but approximately 30 in soloq. I was almost ready to uninstall.

I’d like to see teams go away completely. They ruin the fun.

To my mind, the bad player is the one that whisper’d me the other night, post match to tell me “you’re sh%$” and “Never queue for ranked again”. He thought that I had failed in my unspecified but blindingly obvious “proper role.” He made it very clear that he felt I was personally responsible for “his” loss.

He went on to say that he was one of the top 5 in North America at the moment. Presumably he has a good win/loss record.

Face it folks. The game exists to make a profit. Numbers of players make profits.

It’s easy to mouth Ayn Rand style sentiments about social darwinism when you win often. But it’s those “bad” players like me who spend money at the Gem Store.

By nature a game set up to be a viable business is going to cater to people who want to play casually.

If you want a higher level of play, teach..like I do in dungeons. I make a point of taking whoever wants to go and I teach the tricks I’ve managed to gather. Don’t kitten here.

Shatter Mesmer or Thief are not easy modes. It’s all too easy to die suddenly. Now Altruistic healing Guardian on the other hand…

Dueling is already available in HoTM. I don’t think there is any need to make a specialized arena for it or allow it in Open World.

As a new PvP player I wandered into Dueling arenas first and was pretty discouraged by the experience. I think that “sanctioned” dueling is more likely to hurt PvP than to help based on my experience of it.

Leaving stealth to cap a point would be nice at times. The kittening about Thieves has already caused bizare game changes. Allowing us to decap faster would make it worse.

If I understand correctly Engi’s can now invis longer than thieves. Rangers have pretty frequent access to stealth as well. The new "revealed’ idea makes SR, HiS and etc largely non viable as a defense.

At this point I get outshone on stealth by Engis in dungeon running.

Basically every time stealth is modified it’s made less accessible and less useful. Let’s not encourage yet another nerf .

I think that matchmaking has improved significantly. A fair percentage of my games lately have been close and hard fought.

Others have been steamrollers, especially when I encountered the same team in 2 or 3 matches in a row.

My suspicion is that this is because there are relatively few players available. So bad matches are inevitable. The alternative would be very long queue waits.

I don’t see any justification for buffing anything on Ranger unless it comes with a healthy nerf to the longbow and pet. You’re worried about mobility when you already have the top ranged weapon and a guided missile to defend you?

For a long time, playing Mesmer, I thought Thieves were totally OP. Now maining Thief in PvP… Wow, just wow.. ANET nerfed the class UNDER the turf.

Yes there are a couple out there who thrash everyone they encounter. Yes some of the thieves I’ve met have had a pretty cruddy attitude and liked to laugh at whomever they killed.

Wow ANET, what did you leave thieves? Two other classes have higher stealth AND higher damage oh and better healing too. And in the case of Rangers, far superior range.

The idea that stealth is OP is a toxic myth. Mesmers have had similar problems in the past.

I’m laughing at people who QQ thieves. I sincerely apologize for believing the class was OP

@Xista; your attitude is just ugly and I suspect you of delusions of grandeur

I have to agree, I have lost something like a dozen in a row tonight. Players moaning that I’m a burden and should go back to pve. So PvP is toxic for me tonight on two counts, spending 3ish hours without a single win and listening to my fellow players whine.

While I admit not being a top shelf competitor, I am Shark rank.. so am not a noob. I’ve been badly overmatched all night.

It seems that I’m in pug v. team scenarios often as well. It may simply be that I keep getting matched against much higher level players.

If it’s ANET’s goal to discourage PvP.. I’d say the matching system is on the right track.

I have noticed some better matches in the past day or so. Much fewer walkovers. Anet seems to be going in the right direction at least.

Personally, I think the players who cry about nubs are generally less skilled than they think.You’d think they could win 1 v 5 but are just gracefully giving others a chance, by what I hear in team chat.

I will comment that even one pair in teamspeak gives their team a large advantage over a pug team. Matchmaking should consider any partied people as a large advantage.

With respect to 500-0 game scores; The only place that happens is Courtyard. I think that whole map is a really bad idea and should be discarded. I vote against it without fail and would almost rather take a dishonor hit than deal with that setup.

No I disagree vehemently. Elitist players like to blame failures on “noobs.” Truthfully I’d rather play with a relatively new group of people. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been verbally blasted for some unspecified failure that I “should” know about.

Guess what? Your idea about the optimum way to play might not be the be all – end all strategy.

Instead of trying to make the PVP even less accessible than it is now, the “good” players should help develop others. Whining just makes you look like a scrub.

Courtyard disgusts me. This is a miniature WvW with even less skill.

That being said. I want to respond to the idea that competitive play shouldn’t be balanced for casuals. Hate to break it to you super players.. but most players are casuals.

The toxic elitism is a big reason PvP suffers.

Thank You. I believe that’s the first time a Dev has responded to something I said. It changes my attitude for the better.

Here’s a suggestion for you:

New factoring rule; Unless a group is a designated team, no more than 2 of a group may be on the same side in a subsequent match.

I think that the major ques are these:

Seeing the same (winning) group of players repeatedly.

Seeing groups entirely or mostly composed of one guild.

Coordination in a team that makes it clear that they are on voice or otherwise highly experienced.

Admittedly; This last cue could represent a group of random high skill players or an organized group. The effect is the same either way.

I think not factoring MMR is as big a mistake as factoring it only. The game should factor MMR and other statistics.

@Justin ODell: This debate is about perception, not statistics.

It is very clear that the matches the past few days have been badly unbalanced. I cannot prove why.

This is not a debate over numbers. It is over subjective experience. In my opinion, the experience of PvP has suffered badly because the skill levels are blatantly unbalanced.

The “good” PvP players need to remember that new blood keeps a game rolling. In politics we talk about protecting minorities from the “tyrrany of the majority.”

Ayn Rand style attitudes of let the chips fall where they may and “good” players “deserve” rewards works in theory only. In the real world it leads to a shrinking elite and a dead game.

Not losing MMR means exactly nothing emotionally when you get steamrollered.

Courtyard disgusts me. It’s a zero skill mini WvW.

If I’m entitled to my opinion;

It seems clear that matches are being made at the moment with no consideration of skill levels. It’s as though everyone’s rating was reset to 0.

I have seen no evidence of consideration of team vs. solo. Skimming the matchmaking algorythim, I may have missed it. I was tired but didn’t see anything in the psuedocode that dealt with team size.

Courtyard deserves criticism stronger than is fit to print here. The best thing to “fix” it would be to bin it and pretend it never happened.

Yes, perhaps after 6 months of accumulated stats this may produce a well rounded matchmaking. However, by that time.. most of the new people will have quit and there won’t be anything left to balance.

Very short sighted and poor implementation, imo.

I feel that it’s bad manners to afk and refuse to do it.

Courtyard is making me reconsider though.

That is definitely not something I want to participate in and I’m bummed when I get railroaded into a “game” in Courtyard.

I am also a Veteran and agree for the most part.

I have been known to whisper struggling players and refer them to youtube or the forums. I’ve also given specific advice on professions I play.

One thing that has been helpful is to wish all good luck and bow prior to a match. Often an opposing player will dance with you, pre-match out on the map. This kind of thing changes the atmosphere a bit.

The impression I got coming in was that the “community” was mostly in PvP for the same reason many zerg in WvW, viz; to take advantage of anyone vulnerable and basically be nasty.

A typical justification is; “it’s only a game.” However, to take one example, when one boxer is against the ropes, the other backs off. To continue attacking and taking advantage of the situation would be unsporting.

For a game to be a game, there has to be some civility and self control.

For my part, I’ll make an effort to keep my temper under control and to remember that Rangers didn’t set up that OP longbow and are therefore not at fault.

There is conflicting information on the forum about match ranking. One Dev states that rank is not considered, then cites a wiki page that says that rank is considered.

From subjective experience, I’d guess that all stats have been reset and matches are therefore more or less random at the moment.

Saying “Learn to Play” is counterproductive. Further, I find that most of the people who say it don’t actually play much.

If you read some of the other entries in the forum, I think you’ll find at least anecdotal evidence that what I’m saying is being echoed by others.

The matches definitely feel unbalanced, much more so than before. Of the three matches I have played so far in Courtyard, 2 were 500-0.

I wasn’t being hammered anywhere near this hard under the previous system.

I like Skyhammer. It’s an interesting and challenging map.

Spirit Watch seems to have been the prototype for Courtyard. I dislike playing it because it consistently degenerates into a team fight in the center.

Not sure I can find words strong enough for Courtyard that are suitable for print.

Please banish Courtyard to the dustbin, asap. I definitely don’t want that in ranked.

OK I just read the page referenced by the Dev. It states that rank IS part of the algorithm on an experimental basis.

I’m a coder but too tired to parse this in detail.

Subjective experience gives me the impression that very little is being considered in matchmaking at the moment.

If the rank is being used as the wiki states and all ranks have been reset it would tend to explain the unbalanced matches.

Perhaps “outliers” are being sent in too often in an attempt to cut down on queue times.

Devs: While I understand and appreciate that I lose little Glicko rating when steamrollered, it’s pretty cold comfort. I’d be happy to wait a little longer for a balanced match.

The UI is neatly done. I don’t see it as a large improvement. New users will no doubt find it “friendly.”

I’d like to be able to opt out pf “Courtyard” I dislike it intensely and don’t wish to play that mode.

Here’s some qualitative feedback. I have lost all of the past 8 matches or so. In every case, I was matched against 1 or more pvp 80’s. ( I’m level 59 ) .

I wonder why anet believes another player 21 levels higher is a fair match?

A number of times it was also against a team that I suspected of being pre made, because their coordination was fast enough to preclude reasonable typing. Also they are frequently in the same guild.

I don’t want to wait a month or two, I’m being steamrolled in the vast majority of matches. The matching “system” seems hell-bent on putting me against pvp 80’s. (I’m 59 at the moment ) an excellent way to drive off players, especially any new ones who happen to show up.

Yes, watching gameplay it’s easy to spot a probable pre made. They coordinate movement and fire fast enough that it’s clear they are on voice.

This is absolutely awful. I logged in with my brand new gaming computer looking forward to some pvp.

I’m getting consistently matched against pre made teams, often with players who are pvp 80’s. I’m currently 59 in pvp and struggling to get better. I’ve lost so many rounds tonight I’ve lost track.

I don’t claim to be a pvp expert and I’m angry that I’m being consistently badly overmatched.

If this continues, I predict that the pvp population will rapidly shrink.

The matches are far more unbalanced than they ever were before. I’m feeling like a crash test dummy at this point.

The “deathmatch” typifies everything bad about pvp. In my opinion it’s not a game at all. I’m really very unhappy that I can’t opt out of that map. I’m sure rangers will love it.

I have been trying for two days to kill a thread. How do I do this? I can’t seem to disengage and it’s getting uglier every day.

I may have misread. It’s 5am after a pvp all nighter. The bow AND the pet have been buffed. It’s too much.

As to time played.. I’m into my second year, approaching 10K AP and have an 80 in EVERY profession. (including 4 80 Mesmers ) 100% map completion.. I could go on.

I proposed an idea that might permit the bow to be backed off without undue howling from the new players.

The Longbow does too much; sustained damage( the auto attack is too strong and fast by a large factor ), interrupt and burst damage. The RF in particular is on a ridiculously short cool down.

I don’t have adequate reflects and as a light armor class, the pet is a serious threat and stopper that makes it difficult to close.

As evidence, I present the very large number of rangers using RF—> barrage almost continually. They can frequently kill a heavily armored class in a single move, by standing outside anyone else’s range and sniping.

In my opinion.. ANET overpowered the Longbow to try to make up for other issues with the class. The Devs failed to forsee the results. A class that can snipe with instant kills from beyond normal range and has utilities; stealth knockback and pets that make it difficult to close in time to use countermeasures.

pssst you just contradicted yourself. If a good anything can overcome a good anything else, then why disparage bunker as essentially useless?.. Are you saying there’s no such thing as a “good” bunker Mesmer player? You ought to think through your responses.

Truthfully, I’m sick and tired of people telling me that a “good” player can do the impossible. Now perhaps there’s a faction of Mesmers that are so highly skilled that all balance issues are overcome with a wave of their hand and a “simple” dodge.

Those people need to come off the ivory tower and realize that their lovely theories mean very little if they can’t be applied in actual play.

No I don’t honestly believe that condi is a viable course for a squishy Mesmer. I don’t think so because many opponents will be zerk and therefore have enough burst to quickly destroy the Mesmer and whatever condi they generate.

No.. I’m generalizing that in my experience zerk can overcome bunker or stealth much of the time. Before you shatter on me… I admit not being an awesome PU mesmer.

Great video and excellent teaching thank you.

@Brent, It’s at the beginning of the video.

bump bump bump lift phantasmal hover jet.

I’d say power. Condi is all well and good but the zerker you are fighting is going to kill you before it ticks enough to do much. ANET has encouraged zerk builds to the extent that other play styles are marginal on survival.