I personally run full zerker but when I run high lvl fracs with pubs I don’t have a hissy fit when other players in my group are not running zerker as well.
You make good points and I do not disagree with you. I am just frustrated by many personal experiences on my Necro where a warrior can literally retreat whenever he wants by GS 3 away from me, then GS 5 out of range. Both of these remove any roots or slows I may be tagging him with.
I do not expect the entire rebalancing of warrior GS or anything to be done really, but I am just tired of games where the tanky heavy armor class can outrun cloth and leather classes. It makes no sense at all to me.
Because he has traited to remove those. It isn’t free – the skills by themselves don’t do that.
Thieves can also stealth and escape, mesmers can blink, eles can do the same.
Necro is pretty decent at mobility but you can’t expect to be good at everything. A warrior that has a GS on cannot CC that much, so he’s trading that off for the mobility. Also if he’s running away you’ve won that fight. You’ve achieved what you wanted to achieve – if sPVP you’ve won the point, if WvW you’ve driven him off.
Victory =/= kill.
Sorry it took me a while to reply, but I had better things to do than to reply to someone who lost their credibility when they said Engineer’s turrets were tough to deal with. Anyways, here is a video I took of a PvP match where a naked Warrior (yes, NAKED Warrior), was still able to outlive my damage as a fully decked out thief. Apologies for how terrible the video quality is, and also don’t bother commenting about how I was just playing terrible. I had to scramble to get my phone to record it with, and then I had to play with one hand holding my phone up and on on my mouse, so I pretty much could only stand there. However the video does serve its purpose in that I am hitting the warrior multiple times for 2-4k, and not only is it BARELY doing a dent to his HP (don’t forget, he’s kittening NAKED), but he is actually able to regenerate most of the damage.
And it really doesn’t say anything. How were you traited? What armor were you wearing? I’ll just ignore the fact you were facetanking a hammer warrior and he had you disabled most of the fight…Yeah, that’s not how you deal with a warriors hammer, btw. Or the fact that I can’t even see your HP in the video so I don’t even know what percentage of your health he dealt to you relative to how much of hsi health you took from him. He could have been full defensive for all I know, and be hitting you for barely any damage at all. Considering his auto attacks are only doing 550 damage to you on average, I’m going to assume that’s the case!
And lets not forget that this is Spvp where armor does’t even have stats so the only thing lost would be defense and the runes. But wait, Head, shoulder and hand armor can still be equipped because you can turn the graphics of those off while still having them equipped. So essentially he lacks the defense of three pieces or armor and three runes. That’s not anything close to a huge loss.
Lets get real here. In 20seconds you had him down below 50%health. He wasn’t outliving your damage, he would be dead in another 10-15 seconds. Considering how you cut it off in the middle of the fight I assume that’s exactly what happened. That video reaks of complete bullkitten.
It’s 8 seconds, unless you trait for it to be 10; which most warriors wont do because the defensive line has a lot of traits better than sure-footed. And it’s only condition immunity, other forms of damage still work…
Which doesn’t have anything to do with OP’s point. The post was specifically talking about soft CC as a defensive mechanic, not damage.
I was responding to Ahuba not OP.
@Garenth: No one is forcing you to go pure condition spec. No class is forced into going pure condition spec. If you go pure condition then a berserkers stance/cleansing ire traited warrior is going to be a real issue to deal with. You act like every spec doesn’t have a particular counter. Well, it does. Mesmers will typically face roll a warrior, oh well. And 8 seconds isn’t a terribly long time, any competent player will last longer than that. And while conditionmancers are weak to those types of warriors, Minionmancers are a hell of a lot harder for them to deal with. That’s just just how how it is. But hey, Conditionnmancers will continue to faceroll any build that doesn’t have a kittenton of condition cleansing. By your standards, that’s not very fair for the classes who can’t deal with all the condition spamming, is it not? Conditions are incredibly ridiculous in spvp as it is, makes sense for them to have a few counters.
It’s 8 seconds, unless you trait for it to be 10; which most warriors wont do because the defensive line has a lot of traits better than sure-footed. And it’s only condition immunity, other forms of damage still work…
You are not the OP, right? Regardless how you feel, that’s not what he was asking. The OP is asking about a 1v1 class when Spvp is largely a team game. It’s clearly a “What if I was always stuck in a 1v1 scenario; what is the best class for that?”
If you just want to hold a point then bunker down. A good 1v1 class is still going to be able to kill someone 1v1 and take the point, it’s whether or not their teammates come to help that changes things. And to be honest, if your’e a roamer, you don’t need to be capping points. You can just assist whoever needs it and then move to the next point. Capping an unattended point is just icing on the cake. They could also be the ones controlling the gimmicky mechanics, such as the treb in Kyhlo or the Cannon in Skyhammer. So yes, Spvp is not exclusively about holding a point.
And why does capping or decapping a point have anything to do with this? The topic is “best 1v1 class” not “Best 1v1 class who can hold a point”
Because we’re on the sPvP forums, and except for dueling for funsies, the majority of your 1v1s are going to be on fight. And even if you win 100% of your 1v1s, if you can’t control the point at all while you’re fighting, you’re pretty useless.
If the OP wanted to know what class was best at holding a point he would have asked that. I’m only answering his question; whether or not this is the Spvp forums is of no relevance.
He clearly brought up Mesmer, whch is arguably the best 1v1 class, but they’re not as hot in Spvp because of their Inability to hold a point.
And why does capping or decapping a point have anything to do with this? The topic is “best 1v1 class” not “Best 1v1 class who can hold a point”
A zerker warrior build that doesn’t run HS.
This game is one of capturing points, not killing people. To think otherwise is to blind yourself to the objective, and, as a result, capturing and keeping objectives should always be used to measure a player’s skill, not killing others. Otherwise, what point would there be in having, for example, bunkers? Incidentally, however, I do think that the warrior is superior at 1v1s in the dueling sense as well, though. It’s just that that kind of test is somewhat irrelevant to the point of the game.
I wouldn’t run HS with ANY zerker build and I wouldn’t run a zerker build on a warrior in Spvp to begin with, but that’s besides the point. We are talking pure zerker here, aren’t we? Not Soldier/Knights armor (melandru runes) with zerker trinkets.
But that’s evading the topic question. It was “which is the best 1v1 class.” There is going to be advantages to certain classes if you’re confined to fighting inside a small circle even if that class would not win normally. A thief isn’t going to be able to work their magic and hold a point, I’ll give you that. But it’s never what I was disagreeing with.
lmao no, a zerker thief will kill a zerker warrior before he even knew what hit him.
As for storngest 1v1 class— Mesmer, easy.
Naturally he shouldn’t die so quickly. He has 8k more health, 7% damage reduction, and the large amounts of passive healing from HS without requiring a cast time gives the warrior a huge advantage. Furthermore, a warr can pop invuln to live at least 4 more seconds, which is absolutely crucial. Warrs also have higher skill coefficients; a level 2 eviscerare does more than a single BS, for example. With the warrior build I’ve been running over the past few days, I’ve run zerker ammie w/ soldier’s jewel and have had absolutely no troubles dealin with burst thieves.
You act like 8khealth and 7%dmg reduction means anything when you’re going full zerker. That’s basically enough to tank one backstab crit from a thief. And i’ll say it as many times as it needs to be said; healing signet is trash on a full glass build.. Why use something that gives passive regen when virtually any opposition even remotely glassy is going to burst the crap out of you. Healing Surge > Healing Signet with full glass build. Blind power and invis is a far better utility than anything a warrior has in a 1v1 when both are going full zerker. It comes down to who manages to get the first few hits in, and a thief is far harder to target than a warrior after his 4 second endure pain is inactive; which a thief can just just disengage from.
You can’t nerf a class based on how buffed other classes can make it. It’s kittened and illogical.
And you forget the part where in team fight you have multiple players doing DPS. 1000HPS may seem impossible in a 1v1 scenario to some classes but it’s still easily dealt with in a 5v5.
HS, adrenal health, and regen boon is around 1100hps. I think I can probably bump mine up to 1200hps, not sure if 1300hps is possible though. I dont actually run this build unless the server has trouble holding a keep from a large zerg though.
You can also throw in a 43.5 second aoe aegis every 48 seconds with monk runes if you’re into that lol.
Healing Signet 392
Adrenal Health (with full adrenaline)120
Regen 130
= 642
Are you telling me full cleric increases regen by another 500HPS?
Spirit of nature has nothing to do with warrior, are you stupid?
602 + 320 = 922, not quite there yet bud. Not that it matters anyways since it’s a RANGER skill, not a WARRIOR skill.
I guess the next time a guardian drops a Protection boon on me, I’ll be sure to thank him for making me even more OP. ‘Cause y’know, a warrior can’t give it to himself.
Oh look its not only the HS that heals there is an actual trait involved that heals passively too.
I type this because everyone keeps forgetting that few bleeds or a simple poison render the HS passive useless.
Why is it that every single warrior only uses Healing Signet, that’s right its the strongest heal, you seem to forget there are others on your team its not bloody 1v1 where we can prema poison you and counter your regen, you also seem to forget are you just standing them what about your passive condition remove what about your stance, what about your bloody team support that also does condition remove, WHAT ABOUT SPIRIT OF NATURE, yeah real balanced just give them well over 1k heal a second which is 100% passive.
Your a kitten stop trying to save face and kitten off.
Warrior has nowhere near 1k passive HPS, let alone well over 1k…TYVM
I sure hope you’re not implying a warrior should go full cleric, I really hope so. But that’s okay, they STILL don’t have over 1kHPS with full cleric. So are you factoring in mango piesand dolyak runes as well? Real logic you got going there.
If we want to get realistic here and not talk out of your kitten
392 for healing signet
80 for adrenal health
I’ll even give you the benefit of the doubt and assume a warrior is dumb enough to use a banner for regen passive, so another 130 for that
=
602HPS
That’s about half the number you pulled out of your kitten , even with me giving you the benefit of the doubt.
That’s exactly the problem. With adrenal health, I can reach 700+ hps easily, and use some blocks or escapes to capitalize on that.
Sure it’s fun to play, at start, when you kill pepole. But as I realized some professions simply can’t dish out as much damage to pass my regen, the 1vs1 fights don’t seem fair to me anymore.
I’m not asking to nerf the warrior without other solutions, but this one is too easy to build / achieve, I think. Some regen on skill activation, for example, would be better than this.
Healing signet (30 discipline) with full healing/dwayna gear = 420 per tick.
adrenal healing doesn’t scale w/ healing power at all.
Therefore your claim you can easily achieve 700+ would assume your using healing signet at 30 discipline w/ full cleric/dwayna runes and never use adrenaline at all..which still leaves you short of 700+..so attach healing power +10 on kill and assume your running at 25 stacks..and you say you felt it was op?..you’re just a mound of healing jelly with stubby little legs and arms and weapons that should be replaced with ping pong paddles for the dmg your doing. Which by the way is 120 per auto attack and 230 on crit which you’ll achieve about 3% of the time. You say that is OP?..it is not OP,..it is just a really unclever. Just say’n.
I’m gonna go a step further and say its actually pretty easy to achieve 1100hps passive heals on warrior. Btw, damage is not that low.
Have a good day
You’re going to have to enlighten me, because I’m pretty sure you can’t. Things to note: Mango pie has nothing to do with warrior and shout heals are not HPS or passive and you’re sacrificing the far superior stances for the shouts.
I’m going to assume you’re going full clerics and healing power is by far the worst stat in the game but that’s fine, at least list where the 1100HPS is coming from since you claim it’s possible.
Easy to play professions are supposed to have lower maximum effectiveness compared to tougher professions, otherwise there is no point at all to play harder profession, unless you are a complete masochist and tryhard.
…no, because then those classes would be completely non-viable in tournament play. A warrior may be the easiest class to play but any skilled player is going to spank an average warrior. I’m sorry, but it’s true. Warriors only give a big advantage when two bads face off against eachother. They’re both trying to facetank damage and a warrior is going to come out way ahead in that scenario.
I think the biggest issue of all is how Spvp is designed. Capturing point that require you to stand inside a small circle for prolonged periods of time give a huge advantage to certain builds. They can spam you inside the circle and there is little you can really do outside of leaving the circle.
I sure wish they had more game modes…
Nope. Warrior is the class I’m least skilled at since I’ve had to rework my skills and builds on other classes while the warrior always kept on trucking. Maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about. Just saying.
I’m sorry to say, but that post makes no sense. I’m saying you’re not going to ever be good enough to bring out the skill cap of most other classes, because you’re bad. Warrior is an easy class to pick up and learn. Easy mechanics, but it doesn’t mean you’ll ever be great with a warrior, either. Only that playing a warrior is more forgiving when you kitten up.
Glass cannon warriors melt in seconds. Once their stance if over, they die.
And it’s a completely horrible build for any type of PvP. Save zerker for PvE. Sure, you can find plenty of brainless players who can’t hit a zerker warrior without any real evasion mechanics. but any competent player is going to spank that warrior.
Ele’s and Rangers (certain aspects, mostly their pets) need rework/buffs, I give no respect to other classes who complain how UP their class is.
Mesmers and Necro’s especially have no reason to complain. Engi’s and Guardians are fine…thief is…I don’t know. Remove stealth from this game (or at least the way it currently works) and you can buff them as much as you want.
Guardians and Necro’s should perhaps have more utility/weapon skills that allow them to disengage, but that’s the extent of it.
“I’m tired of people coming to the warrior section and complain about us being OP in whatever.”
How about warriors? Can warriors come to the warrior section and say that the class in OP? I’ve found the warrior to be the easiest to play and gives the most success with the least effort. It’s the class I play the most at the moment. Other classes need bringing up to this same standard as the warrior and the community should get used to that idea, most specifically for PvE.
Warrior is an easy class to play and you’re probably just not skilled enough to bring out the full potential (or half of?) of other classes, just saying.
Also, PvE balance is a non-factor as it’s never what causes all of the QQ warrior OP whine threads.
Playing sub-optimally in a PUG doesn’t make the PUG any better, you just contribute to the group being worse. You know how the saying goes, 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
That might be the case if pugs did not end up ranging 90% of the bosses and fail to stack in a lot of cases. So you’re not even able to 100b or use axe/mace during those circumstances (barring the few times I can rush in do my melee burst damage and then rush back out). I still go full zerker but it’s not pretty in pugs a lot of the time. For fractals, anyways—which is mainly what I do. And this is 40’s fractal I’m referring to.
25-30k100b in a pug is not laughable. I get that sometimes runnig 30/25/0/0/15 in full zerker.
You’re not being constructive in the slightest, Flissy. People should be able to run whatever they want in pugs. We all know almost every pug isn’t running in optimized gear, either.
Who the hell wants to use healing signet with full zerker. Healing Signet is only good with toughness. Healing signet isn’t going to sustain kitten if you’re being bursted down by everything due to low toughness.
Maybe because you’re rolling over bads. Try beating a good mesmer or necro with your hammer build who can dodge your obviously telegraphed skills. Hammer isn’t even that good anymore. Bow burst >> hammer burst
So do I, as I know how to block/dodge/blind. Outplaying someone on an easy build doesn’t make it any less OP.
Yes it does. It’s an easy to play and play against build. That is why you outplayed them, after all. “Oh look, I spank hammer warriors but they need to be nerfed” kittened.
It’s not -100%cond duration. It’s -100%condition duration on crippled/chilled/immobilize
And the only warrior skill that aids in that is Dogged March(33%reduction on movement restricting conditions). The rest comes from Melandru Runes and Lemongrass. Which any class can buy. A warrior also cant use banner regen and shoutheal in the same build….Nor can a warrior use the so called OP stances such as endure pain and balanced stance if they plan on running s shout heal spec. You’re listing things a warrior CAN do, not what a warrior is capable of doing at the same time. Not to mention they’re both in the gransmaster tactics tree which is a terrible place to spec into.
What people complain about warrior are:
for example someone with the same IQ played warriors for 1000hours in SPVP/WVW roaming and the other player play any job beside mez / thief ( jobs that specialized in one on one)
Both them of course with the same IQ will be equally good right?
and u can guess who win the fight if they fight one on one….
Because warrior is an easier class to play than most. If two average players went 1v1 with equal skill, then the warrior is likely to win. If two players who have mastered the class face off, then it can go either way. A Mesmer is a warriors bane if a Mesmer knows how to play the class well. And none of that implies that the class is OP.
and seriously dude.. If warrior used stability and berserker stance at the same times how do u stop them from getting close?
Kite them until it’s off cooldown? And enjoy the 35-50seconds until it’s off cooldown again. It’s not like those are spammable abilities.
and the new warrior heal skill works with condition…. it’s op. My main is not a guard… but i think anet should switch guard and warrior new heal skill
No, the new warrior heal skill is trash in any kind of pvp environment. Three seconds of condition immunity that also converts damage to health at the expense of any healing beyond that….terrible. What do you think happens if you stop attacking a warrior that activates Defiant Stance? He may as well just jump off a cliff, he’s going to die anyways. Any warrior using that trash over Healing Signet or Healing Surge is just nerfing himself.
You make good points and I do not disagree with you. I am just frustrated by many personal experiences on my Necro where a warrior can literally retreat whenever he wants by GS 3 away from me, then GS 5 out of range. Both of these remove any roots or slows I may be tagging him with.
The GS itself does not remove roots/immobilize/slows.
Mobile Strike is a trait that removes immobilize when using a movement skill and there is a lot of condition removal utilities, but the GS doesn’t do any of that on its own.
Adrenal health isn’t even good. At its strongest it heals for 120HPS. Which is never the case because the instance someone has three bars of adrenaline, they should be using their burst skill…So in reality, it’s more like 80HPS on average. Unless people are using that dumb bunker/banner of defense/healing/vigor build. Which is pretty bad in my opinion, and I’ve owned it on multiple occasions since it became “popular.” It does terrible damage and can be solod if you do decent damage yourself.
…And Banners…They should stay in PvE…Unless it’s Warbanner….And Signet of Rage is just too good to not use in most cases.
You clearly don’t understand how this game works. Mesmer clones aren’t " easy " since you have to split your effort between killing them or killing the mesmer.
Same goes with engi – he throws turrets – you’re stuck either fighting him or them.
Well for one, I stated that Mesmer clones were 1) Easy to kill and 2) Easy to tell apart from the caster. I suppose if you are idiotic enough to waste your time running around playing whack-a-mole with the Mesmer clones, you could have a pretty tough endeavor on your hands. Personally, I watch for the subtle giveaways and go after the real Mesmer. To each their own.
And Engineer. I actually LOL’ed at that. I would love to play against the Engineers that you are that are using the entirety of their utility slots for turrets. They are admittedly (after Ranger pets) the second worst mechanic in the game. Turrets currently don’t scale with stats, are EXTREMELY easy to kill, and once the breeze rolls through and knocks them over you are left with an Engineer with very little options.
As far as Guardian, I have no qualms with them. They can bunker… so what. They aren’t dealing unbelievable damage while doing so.
Listen to Luto. Its frustrating when thief is advertised as king of mobility, when in actuality chasing a warrior is futile. You will never catch him, and he will regenerate to full while you try. But also if we are speaking by your logic of “every class has their gimmick” to make up for armor/HP differences, Warrior gets heavy armor, and should be burdened by it. They should move slower than a Thief in leather armor, when “mobility” is supposedly the thief’s “gimmick.”
Also, please stop with your dead-end “You just don’t understand how things are and how this game works” arguments.
I was hoping that youtube video was going to be the one where you got thrashed 5v2 by some warriors. Disappointed.
Any of you whiners out there trying to tell me Mesmers are handicapt against a warrior 1v1, I’m willing to meet you in some pvp. I’ll play a mesmer, you play the “OP” warrior and we’ll see what transpires. Send me whisper or a friend request.
If you want something more condition related, then the antitoxin runes are nice. I’d still stick with Melandru for a cond warr. You have plenty of cond damage already and Melandru runes are amazing.
Warrior was nerfed last patch and the QQ became even stronger. Give whiners the feeling that their opinions can influence an outcome, and you’ll never get rid of them.
People really need to show me videos of them trying to burst a warrior down with HS and failing so that I can tell them what they’re doing wrong/call bullkitten.
The fact that every class is capable of this speaks words on its own. If you’re a good player you can make sue out of a harder to play class. Just ebcause a warrior is easy to play does not make it overpowered. It gives an advantage when two average players are fighting each other.
And the funny thing is, people complain about healing signet but warriors are one of the easiest classes for me to take down (as a warrior) — Healing signet is completely shut down by the condition build that I use. Most still run hammer and the damage is pathetic.
My whole team was against two warriors today on a point in a pvp match. 5vs2. Warriors were regenerating so hard yet were still able to put out so much damage they downed our entire team without us even getting one down (team even called target, so we had focus). Regenerating beyond all the damage we put out (we even had a condi necro (which brings up another point, Warriors even get a fear, which is unbelievable)).
Your move.
You and the rest of your team is just really bad? This isn’t a game of chess honestly, skilled players have been able to demolish with each and every class. It’s not unusual to see Youtube videos of Mesmers or Necros taking on 3v1 or 4v1 and winning. I can supply the video if you don’t believe me. This is in a similar vein to how two warriors beat the 5 of you. You were outplayed. Thrashed, trashed, dumpstered.
And me personally? I beat most warriors with relative ease, yet when I’m focused on in a 2v1 situation, I rarely win in Spvp, if I want to keep the point that is.
The fact that every class is capable of this speaks words on its own. If you’re a good player you can make sue out of a harder to play class. Just ebcause a warrior is easy to play does not make it overpowered. It gives an advantage when two average players are fighting each other.
And the funny thing is, people complain about healing signet but warriors are one of the easiest classes for me to take down (as a warrior) — Healing signet is completely shut down by the condition build that I use. Most still run hammer and the damage is pathetic.
As an example, in a 15 second fight, Healing Surge provides ~660 “HPS”, while Signet still provides ~400.
Pls, show us your calculation of this.
It’s basic math. Healing Signet heals for 392HPS whether you have a 10seconds fight or a five minute fight. On the other hand, healing surge is a base heal that heals for 10,000 at any moment you activate it. 660(HPS)x15(seconds)=9,900. Close enough. It’s actually slightly more than 660HPS in a 15 second fight.
Ehh I mean whatever bring some data or something tangible than “get good or uninstall”
I mean I find it funny how some of you with the “pff because pro players know how to get around it so how can it be op” when I’m pretty sure all of you have found something about the game imbalanced and have commented on in a thread in the past. Maybe… like excessive blinds? But when warriors are in question it’s just you’re bad lol
What data can be brought? Every class has different mechanics. Balance should be considered with the competitive scene in mind. Otherwise, certain classes would become terrible competitively. If you find your class to be too complicated to play effectively, then roll a warrior… And I’ve never drifted off into another classes subforum and whined about OPness. I think it’s annoying and not helpful in any way. It’s rarely if ever constructive criticism about the class.
All I know is that I’ve played with every class except an engineer and the only class that I feel was not on par with the others is the ranger.
