Bunkers doesnt exist because thieves, but based on the fact that most zerk/marauder builds are unviable cause thief, theres nearly nothing left to play
This more or less. Though I would say condition builds in the meta are currently more limiting on build choice than thieves.
I wont disagree with you, and thieves arent the only ones it fault, but the fact that thieves can counter most assassin type builds is what makes bruisers/holders so common
Bunkers doesnt exist because thieves, but based on the fact that most zerk/marauder builds are unviable cause thief, theres nearly nothing left to play
Maintaning “5 pips” upkeep while in Glint is unlikely to happen, and while its more difficult its totally posible to legend swap with +50 energy with every legend. Anyway, as it has been said its just used for extra bursting with weapon swap procs.
What if they nerfed theive attacks like back stab a little but have it some sort of armor ignore property so it won’t one shot zerks and gains a little effectiveness against bunkers
Maybe smth like reducing their base dmg but giving them a trait which makes them ignore armor against enemies afflicetd with vuln or smth like this? Just a random idea tho
have you stopped just a moment to think why metas gravitate to bunkers when it is posible and people uses the many defensive automatic procs that are posible… just for a simply reason: glass canons are not allowed to exist because of thiefs, a class whith a broken by design sinergic mechanic (stealth+high movility/ports) what can chase down glass canons in a few seconds apearing off nowhere and banishing in air after down you apearing only a few seconds after to take the stomp.
I think the tourneys linked need to be recent. like after every new patch.
new patches bring different changes and necros/reapers may need more LF to start with.
For example, this current patch necros got nerfed bad. I think 30-40% LF starting is a good range.
Then a DH should duel most classes with them starting at half HP because DH is in a bad state. Thats not how it works, necros start with 20% because is the minimum that you need in order to be able to use Shroud skills when early-pressured. Note that the 20% lf has always been the same no matter how good or bad necro was in the meta. Then, obv, you can talk with your opponent and decide between you too what seems to be the most fair, but the standard is 20% no matter what.
I think pure warrior is the only profession that can be a serious threat against new elite specs. This is my personal opinion but whenever I play with gs/axe-shield combo, I do not feel that much underpowered.
Warrior damage feels incredibly easy to mitigate/avoid but warrior doesn’t have much ability to do the same.
Same with every other base spec
Then either way the OP is correct.
Take scrapper or rev, there is pretty much nothing base warrior can do verse them. Scrapper is literally better at being a warrior then warrior.
If we take in account that base classes were balanced, and when HoT came out elite specs were largely better than core specs, then we talk about overpowered elite specs, not underpowered core specs :p
I would like to hear how to handle the current condiwarrior meta as an engineer. I have already problems against warriors alone as i can´t really kite them as a meleeclass. Elixier C helps a lot but i don´t take it if there is only one condiclass in the other team.
I try not to hit them with stuns/dazes as theier stunbreaks heal them. So i just kite them through Hammer 5 and avoid jumpfinishers in lightning fields. I am forced to play very defensively but die in the end.
Even worser is it to fight alone vs Warrior + X. Recently I hold close against a druid. Was no problem, almost finished him but then warri comes in. The fight ended very fast and I kissed the floor. I can handle most 2 vs 1 situations somehow but if a warrior is one of them I get wrecked quickly. The amount of stuns, powerburst and condidamage kills me very fast.
Has someone tipps?
Are you running the meta build?
If so, some tips more or less related to it:
-Time your hammer3 and 4 in order to pressure him while he’s in berserker mode while dodging/blocking his burst skills. Also try to have stab uptime as much as you can when you’re in rnage, and kite him when you’re out of stab to prevent being stun-locked.
-Use your hammer 2 on safe windows where you can approach him. Warrs are really good at close range, but rly bad when you keep your distance. If you can play with it and pressure him while negating his skills, and kite while waiting for your cds you gain a lot.
-For that matter, you can use Elixir Gun 4 in order to keep your distance with him.
-Try to save your reflexive shield in order to reflect his pin down. Learning the pin down animation will help a lot.
-If you’re running turret heal you can use it to cleanse conditions and then pick it up without blasting it so the cd is lower. This helps a lot on early fights were you dont need a full heal.
-As far as I know, most warrs dont run the stunbreak trait, but if they do just use your hammer5 when they are in berserker mode so their stab prevents them from getting stunned while you get some extra dmg and a lightning field in order to blast swiftness or vulnerability.
-Managing your swiftness/superspeed will help you a lot in order to engage/disengage the warr based on your cds as I have said before.
Briefly, you need to kite him as he is a lot stronger than you in close range and just engage him when you have stab/blocks/evades up, do some dmg and disengage and keep your distance while waiting for your cds again.
I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%
People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?
It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.
I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”
Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?
Except that they do, so moot point…
Dont you want to back up your argument with some 1v1 tourny rules or smth? Waiting for it
Hinter Guard One Versus One Tournament Rules
Section 5: Article 3: Necromancer Life Force-As related to the generation of life force pre-match. The generation of life force via summon and dismissal of minions, attacking objects, or change of utilities is strictly prohibited. All matches must begin as the game was designed with zero life force. Any attempt to game the system will result in immediate disqualification.
There is one right there…only “legit” tournaments and duelists follow these rules.
I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%
People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?
It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.
I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”
Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?
Except that they do, so moot point…
Dont you want to back up your argument with some 1v1 tourny rules or smth? Waiting for it
Dunno what game do you play, but it has been a lot of time since I saw an ele tanking 2 players. If “skilled ele” is your argument, just watch PL finals and tell me how much eles could last when 2v1d
I think pure warrior is the only profession that can be a serious threat against new elite specs. This is my personal opinion but whenever I play with gs/axe-shield combo, I do not feel that much underpowered.
Warrior damage feels incredibly easy to mitigate/avoid but warrior doesn’t have much ability to do the same.
I think pure warrior is the only profession that can be a serious threat against new elite specs. This is my personal opinion but whenever I play with gs/axe-shield combo, I do not feel that much underpowered.
I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%
People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?
It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.
I guess you missed the part where I said, “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.”
Except that they dont, so moot point. Shall I search and link the rules of every decent duel tournament and do some surveys around WvW about common knowledge or its not needed?
I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%
People who try to invalidate another person’s point of view by adding statements such as “…legit” are completely naïve. I can come in here and say the same exact thing to invalidate anything else that would follow from you. Guess what? It doesn’t work. “every legit and respectful dueler agrees you should start with 0 lf.” See how that works?
It’s actually fun to see how your post literally did not bring anything useful to the conversation.
I dont understand what is ppl trying to argue here when every single duel server/legit wvw duels agrees that the starting LF of a necro should be around 20%
Im not sure about you but in regular ranked games, who ever the better player are win not matter the class. At the ESL level from what i saw, all anyone could talk about was the mesmer to thief aspect and imo the necro be lesser then the warrior. Cant have that in a actual PRO LEAGUE.
^
TCG and Rank 55 did even confirm it themself that nec and thief does work but is simply inferior to revenant/warrior comps. You have to play much more properly and are still in a slight disadvantage. So to say that thief and necro comp is equal to warrior/rev is just wrong.
Im 100% sure neither PZ nor Astral would have played necro/thief comp if they scrimed EU comps before.
working as intended until someone from dev side decides otherwise…Intended…intention how do you even know that was intended and just not an unforseen effect?.
How is this a bug? Maybe its not an intended feature, but the skill is clearly working as intended, sticking to the target no matter what (except OP walls lulz)
What about balancing around top PvP? Obv casual/average pvp should not affect balance, and Pro League PvP is about competitivity more than fun. If top PvP is balanced, Pro League PvP will be nearly balanced except for some clutch builds/comps that only work better in high skill/coordinated teams, which imo is a legit reason to be stronger.
I feel personally that berserker is too powerful. They don’t sacrifice much in order to have high sustain, high damage (be it condi or power), and high defensive abilities (blocks, stances, high hp, high armor, etc.). It seems like it’s too easy to get everything now rather than having to invest more in order to be effective in a certain area.
Power warrior have 2.1k armor on zerk or marauder amulet. Stances are on high CDs. Adrenaline healing is conditional in the sense that it has to actually hit a target can be countered by blind spams. It looks over the top for condi build because conditions are broken atm.
Thing is, its actually quite easy to have perma 3 stacks of adrenal when you can spam a full charged burst skill every 3 secs
Balance is actually pretty good except for DHs. As long as we dont get the PL finals and they reveal some weirdo op build, this is the most balanced meta since 1 year ago.
Still not 30 seconds, and nobody’s spamming healing signet just to get its resistance. I have maybe used it as last ditch resistance when low on health a handful of times. The reason being is that if you blow your healing signet, it’s not going to take much to kill you after.
Well, I agree 24/29 is not 30/30 but no reason to shoot mouth off. However, you should spam your healing signet if you clash up against another condi player … or stay in low ruby. Your choice.
I have no problem winning against condi players, and low ruby? I’ve blown through almost half of ruby in the last 2 hours. I was mid-sapphire last night, so I’m fairly happy with my progression.
You should actually use your heal signet against condi bursts cause you already have regen through traits.
It may suit your particular gimmick build but it doesn’t suit most builds.
I’m not dumb enough to waste putrid mark on a 4 second blind in WvW when I know an immobilise is coming soon.
I have to eat that blind (dps drop for me) and vulnerability (dps increase for my enemy) every time I heal.
I have to eat that poison and bleed every time I plague.
It’s a trait that pigeon holes you into a gimmick condi build. L2P indeed.
I don’t feel pigeon-holed at all. If you are doing a condi build and you don’t take the Curses traitline, you are doing it really really weird (I won’t say wrong, maybe you’ve figured out something I missed).
If you are using the Curses traitline, what else are you gonna use at that level? a trait that causes fear to do damage (while we have it, it’s not on enough skills to make this worth it without specifically make a “Run away from me!” build), and one that makes ONE shroud skill do boon corruption, and it’s not the AA. MoC gives you more conditions to transfer to the enemy. It’s a condition build, so that’s what you want to do anyway.
How is that pigeon-holed or gimmicky? The other two traits fit that description way more than MoC…
Spite builds were totally viable when chill did damage, now they dont offer enough dmg to be worth without an ele supporting you 24/7, but curses isnt a must have. Path of corruption offers you RS utility, condi pressure while camping shroud, and the cleave that you lack when dropping spite, while MoC either forces you to use condi transfers (dunno how anyone can consider this good) or Carrion amulet, cause good luck using traited Corrupt Boon with anything that doesnt give you vitalilty.
And even if the other two traits were considered more gimmicky than MoC, this doesnt mean that MoC isnt bad. Deathly chill is bad even tho the other two options are worse, so…
Well we definitely have some differences of opinion. Deathly Chill needed to be brought back in line because damage on a condition that stacked duration not intensity is stupid. Not to mention that chill is an amazing condition already, and that just made it broken. The fix made that trait not overpowered for pvp, and not underpowered for pve (where if someone else was also using chill, the damage never happened anyway). But as your post indicates you’re a pvp player, I’m not gonna bother arguing that with you. I did that with others when the change first happened, and after people started using it more, my opinion was pretty well vindicated, at least among those who played pve primarily. I’ve been arguing for a split between pve and pvp for reasons like this.
In any case, condition transfer is ridiculously easy. Most weapons have at least one ability to do it. There are several utilities that do it. There are traits in multiple trait lines that do it. Condi transfer is cake.
A master trait that effects one skill in shroud and nothing else? That’s about as niche as you get. If you are making a build that camps shroud, sure, but most condi builds hope in to use #5 and then leave immediately (on DS, not RS). MoC gives a condi build more ammunition. If you use your skills in the right order, vitality isn’t an issue. And worst comes to worst, you can use Consume Conditions while you’re getting used to the build, but you really don’t need it unless you screw up and have conditions on you after the target dies.
Edit: All that said, if you don’t want to use it, don’t use it. There is plenty of other ways to do a condi build, and if you are primarily pvp, then the fear does damage trait might be a better choice for you, doing some damage with an interrupt. A condi pvp build probably has enough to have fun with corrupting all the boons people rely on.
I appreciate the long post. I’ve never said that chill dmg was balanced or well designed, but nor it is the actual trait. I was the first one to propose more or less balanced options for a trait useful both on pvp and pve situations due to the fact that splitting skills is nearly impossible with anet.
Condi transfer is insane, but it also is the amount of condis flying around pvp. There’s a lot of situations where self applied conditions get trivialized, but they can bother you equal times, and so you need to adapt your build/playstyle to the weakness of a trait.
About camping shroud, its actually quite useful even tho your condi application gets reduced. While with carrion you usually run crit, with wanderers you can constantly corrupt boons while maintaining a few stacks of burn, so PoC is better than MoC. With carrion it depends on their comp, which is actually a little sad due to the great synergy that MoC has compared to the nearly 0 synergy of PoC.
I’m not dumb enough to waste putrid mark on a 4 second blind in WvW when I know an immobilise is coming soon.
Ok?…
Then don’t?
I don’t understand what your problem is. Just wait for the immob to come and transfer that. Perhaps you will end up transferring that blind too if it’s not already gone.
I guess waste then your skills to burn a stupid blind. The fact that you need to invest on cleansing your own conditions for this trait to work is what makes it bad.
Press “1”.
Hey look! Blind is cleared!
Too bad when you heal yourself you’re usually playing deffensively and so want to use CC skills, for example.
I’m not dumb enough to waste putrid mark on a 4 second blind in WvW when I know an immobilise is coming soon.
Ok?…
Then don’t?
I don’t understand what your problem is. Just wait for the immob to come and transfer that. Perhaps you will end up transferring that blind too if it’s not already gone.
I guess waste then your skills to burn a stupid blind. The fact that you need to invest on cleansing your own conditions for this trait to work is what makes it bad.
Why would you waste skills to burn a blind? Why? What is causing you to do this? I specifically stated in my response to wait for the immob to come, and transfer that — and the blind would possibly follow. I was specifically saying to not waste a transfer on a single blind. Like, how was I misinterpreted?
Because whats the point on standing there for 4 s doing nothing?
I’m not dumb enough to waste putrid mark on a 4 second blind in WvW when I know an immobilise is coming soon.
Ok?…
Then don’t?
I don’t understand what your problem is. Just wait for the immob to come and transfer that. Perhaps you will end up transferring that blind too if it’s not already gone.
I guess waste then your skills to burn a stupid blind. The fact that you need to invest on cleansing your own conditions for this trait to work is what makes it bad.
It may suit your particular gimmick build but it doesn’t suit most builds.
I’m not dumb enough to waste putrid mark on a 4 second blind in WvW when I know an immobilise is coming soon.
I have to eat that blind (dps drop for me) and vulnerability (dps increase for my enemy) every time I heal.
I have to eat that poison and bleed every time I plague.
It’s a trait that pigeon holes you into a gimmick condi build. L2P indeed.
I don’t feel pigeon-holed at all. If you are doing a condi build and you don’t take the Curses traitline, you are doing it really really weird (I won’t say wrong, maybe you’ve figured out something I missed).
If you are using the Curses traitline, what else are you gonna use at that level? a trait that causes fear to do damage (while we have it, it’s not on enough skills to make this worth it without specifically make a “Run away from me!” build), and one that makes ONE shroud skill do boon corruption, and it’s not the AA. MoC gives you more conditions to transfer to the enemy. It’s a condition build, so that’s what you want to do anyway.
How is that pigeon-holed or gimmicky? The other two traits fit that description way more than MoC…
Spite builds were totally viable when chill did damage, now they dont offer enough dmg to be worth without an ele supporting you 24/7, but curses isnt a must have. Path of corruption offers you RS utility, condi pressure while camping shroud, and the cleave that you lack when dropping spite, while MoC either forces you to use condi transfers (dunno how anyone can consider this good) or Carrion amulet, cause good luck using traited Corrupt Boon with anything that doesnt give you vitalilty.
And even if the other two traits were considered more gimmicky than MoC, this doesnt mean that MoC isnt bad. Deathly chill is bad even tho the other two options are worse, so…
I really, really do not want to be mean here, but it’s just a simple matter of fact that you’re a bad player if you think this trait is bad.
It’s arguably one of the strongest traits in the necromancers kitten nal.
It’s a MUST in the condition based builds. You know necromancers can dump the conditions they’re currently suffering from, onto the enemy right? This makes corruptions even stronger than just having a flat 33% cd reduction.
I wouldn’t even say it’s “high risk high reward” gameplay..
Just don’t use a corruption unless you have a condi transfer up.
I actually complain to the druids in my group when they’re spamming cleanses because it hinders my DPS.
lol’d. DH is like the worst class right now in PvP if you’re dying to traps it’s totally a L2p issue.
I think people are so used to seeing other people say, “DH is the worst class in PvP” that they just join in the chant without knowing why. Its pretty funny actually.
The reason why DH is seen as a bad class for pro level play is because at pro level people communicate and that means targeting becomes very coordinated and unfortunately DH sustain cannot handle coordinated attacks well.
Also, at pro level players cover each other much better than in leagues so if people get downed to the initial trap burst, again they communicated and pick up very quickly. This is bad for the DH because now the traps are on cooldown and didnt kill anyone and it has no sustain to handle the coordinated counter.
This cant even be fixed easily because, if you buff guard sustain through traits, you will start to see how broken traps are, buff it through utilities and traps will not see play at pro level.
DH weakness has notthing to do with coordinated teams,but the fact that every single meta comp counters it
that is pretty much the same thing, you say meta comp, i say coordinated team. All you’ve said is guard dies to focus fire, that can be said about most of the other classes.
Also, you are comparing an entire comp to one class?
It has nothing to do with focus fire but with projectile hate lmao
And Im not comparing a class to an entire comp, Im saying that DH cannot offer anything to your team against a meta comp, which is how comps are decided
A meta comp is a bunch of meta builds so for you to say a meta comp is better than a DH, well yes, because you’ve just put 5 players running meta builds against one class.
The most dangerous thing about DH isnt longbow, its the traps. Some classes counter them easily, some dont, some builds counter them easily and some dont. Guard isnt the only class with a projectile weapon so if projectile hate really was the reason, then using a ranged weapon would automatically cause your class to be “trash tier”.
A decent DH doesnt even use longbow half the time, same thing with anyone that has a ranged weapon.
This is pretty much why i said the DH is trash tier songs is just mob mentality, most dont really know why DH is bad, could it be better, yes, but it is not nearly as bad as people say it is. Just like warrior, warrior on paper season 1 and 2 really wasnt bad, sustain was the problem, they needed a slight sustain boost, they got it and now look at warrior. Blind buffs will break DH and blind nerfs will kill DH.
Man, where I’ve said anything about a 1v5? Im growing tired of your kitten already. What Im saying is that against a meta comp DH isn’t going to offer anything to your team, while other classes yes. And ofc a DH is supposed to “camp” LB, are you trying to say that they will achieve better dmg with a sword?
There’s nothing wrong with this trait. 33% was very good before the elite spec. power creep, most other CD traits were 20% around the board (Ignoring elementalist). Getting more conditions from this trait actually helps the condi build’s DPS, especially in raids if using all 3 of the utilities. There isn’t any reason to use these skills in a power build, as there are better alternatives to them all elsewhere.
The trait has been always bad. In fact, ANet even fixed it way before power creep cause you could 100-0 yourself by simply using corruptions
Still quite good, you can still 1v1 most classes and dish out gucci dmg when tfing. The build diversity has been reduced tho, theres a lot of old builds thar are rly bad now.
We did get Grasping Darkness and Death’s Charge with greatsword and shroud is still available without greatsword. While not a mobility skill, Grasping’s pull is a fair gap closer.
Are you looking more for auras or for covering ground faster?
From all the bugged necro skills, Grasping Darkness is the worst one. The only enemy you’re going to hit properly with it is an static one, which therefore doesnt require any pulls cause you can just walk to him.
lol’d. DH is like the worst class right now in PvP if you’re dying to traps it’s totally a L2p issue.
I think people are so used to seeing other people say, “DH is the worst class in PvP” that they just join in the chant without knowing why. Its pretty funny actually.
The reason why DH is seen as a bad class for pro level play is because at pro level people communicate and that means targeting becomes very coordinated and unfortunately DH sustain cannot handle coordinated attacks well.
Also, at pro level players cover each other much better than in leagues so if people get downed to the initial trap burst, again they communicated and pick up very quickly. This is bad for the DH because now the traps are on cooldown and didnt kill anyone and it has no sustain to handle the coordinated counter.
This cant even be fixed easily because, if you buff guard sustain through traits, you will start to see how broken traps are, buff it through utilities and traps will not see play at pro level.
DH weakness has notthing to do with coordinated teams,but the fact that every single meta comp counters it
that is pretty much the same thing, you say meta comp, i say coordinated team. All you’ve said is guard dies to focus fire, that can be said about most of the other classes.
Also, you are comparing an entire comp to one class?
It has nothing to do with focus fire but with projectile hate lmao
And Im not comparing a class to an entire comp, Im saying that DH cannot offer anything to your team against a meta comp, which is how comps are decided
lol’d. DH is like the worst class right now in PvP if you’re dying to traps it’s totally a L2p issue.
I think people are so used to seeing other people say, “DH is the worst class in PvP” that they just join in the chant without knowing why. Its pretty funny actually.
The reason why DH is seen as a bad class for pro level play is because at pro level people communicate and that means targeting becomes very coordinated and unfortunately DH sustain cannot handle coordinated attacks well.
Also, at pro level players cover each other much better than in leagues so if people get downed to the initial trap burst, again they communicated and pick up very quickly. This is bad for the DH because now the traps are on cooldown and didnt kill anyone and it has no sustain to handle the coordinated counter.
This cant even be fixed easily because, if you buff guard sustain through traits, you will start to see how broken traps are, buff it through utilities and traps will not see play at pro level.
DH weakness has notthing to do with coordinated teams,but the fact that every single meta comp counters it
Ya, this skill is bugged af, I mean, you can even dodge it by walking through it. So, its hard to pull it out, but it corrupts in AoE.
Except it doesn’t, I had two guildies stand right next to each other, had the guard spam boons until they both had plenty, made sure there wasn’t any aegis, and every single time it would only corrupt the current targets boons, even though both were getting hit by multiple of the attacks, and were 100% both getting hit by the blind, which according to the wiki, is the hit that actually strips. So it seems that either this is an oversight and needs to be corrected in places, or the skill is actually bugged with path of corruption.
Then its bugged. I’ve aoe corrupted plenty of times with this skill, so anet kitten it up it seems
i would go for this. But be prepared for more ranting on forum. So in perspective of ANET i wouldn’t do this as they have to keep the majority happy not the minority.
They changed the match making after season 1 because the “pro” players complained. I don’t see how that was keeping everyone happy. As far as PvP is concerned, ANet only wants the “pro” mentality group of players happy. Everyone else can hang. That’s the feeling I get from them as far as PvP is concerned.
if ANet really only cared about “pro” players, we would have a balanced meta and proper ranked system, I can assure you. Thing is, Anet wants everyone to be able to get their wings, and so the system allows it.
