Guild Wars 2

Same happening to me

Ubik.8315:

Without cleric cleansebot ele in the meta, condis are going to be even more prevalent yes.

If ele is out, is because of power dmg, cause Mender’s is actually better than clerics against condi comps

Murdyr.9204:

I’m not sure what you guys are all on about. Necro can be so amazingly tanky, it’s just ridiculous. Blood magic + death magic + reaper top, bot, top and you are practically invulnerable. If you are running Rise! on top of that, the nerf from 50% to 33% or however much it was won’t make a huge difference, as people and mobs are gonna have a hell of a tough time taking you down anyway.

Whats the point of it when you dont offer anything worth to your party/team

Wait, is this legit?

Yasi.9065:

Krysard.1364:

Yasi.9065:

But then… rise and carrion is for those that havent realized

Rise and carrion is for those that have realized that revs and thieves exist. You dont always have an ele babysitting you.

I dont need an ele babysitting me because if I get jumped by thief or rev, then my positioning was kitten.

But then… as I said… “positioning” is something most pvp players have no clue about.

You cant be in a non-shadowstep zone 24/7, stop making a fool of yourself

Yasi.9065:

But then… rise and carrion is for those that havent realized

Rise and carrion is for those that have realized that revs and thieves exist. You dont always have an ele babysitting you.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Azukas.1426:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Only three classes even have viable condi builds right now:

• Chronos
• Reapers
• Berserkers
  All three of these condi builds are hard countered by marauder/berserker specs.

No need for a weakness like condition vs. condis. Why? We already have condition clearing skills, traits, boons like resistance and skills like berserker stance.

What meta power builds are countering those?

• Condi Chrono gets chewed by any direct hits from any power build.
• Reapers or Necros in general, have always been hard countered by CC/Power builds due to few resources concerning stability and stun breakers. They are especially hard countered by Daredevils.
• Condi Berserker is hard countered by Power Berserkers and Dragonhunters.

Condi bezerker is counter by power bezerker?? i don’t think you know what you are saying.

We will talk if you upload a vid of you beating Lb/mace shield Tarcis with your power warrior. And btw, i have beat him his condi build once with my power build.

I have tried any combination of power warrior, i made strength/zerk and def work (highest power output), but mediocre against revenant. Got to diamond, 3 times using this build until my intern mid-way through the season. A Mace/shield Condi warrior shouldn’t lose against a power/ axe warrior. If you’re losing/winning against one, you;re either bad or the condi warrior sucks.

Wolfric.9380:

Power warrior is indeed a good choice, but it did fall out of meta. I use it and can kill anything. Shure i miss CC due to doge and blocks and stab. But one CC hit or the high damage alone downs many. The thing is people pick meta and forget that you can adapt. Shure my power war gets smashend by some other builds but condi warriors are prey and mesmers as well as reapers are a lot easier.

Who the heck are you guys playing against?

Power zerker indeed counters condi zerker, as power zerker will constantly cleanse his conditions while condi zerker cannot tank all the dmg

Zenith.7301:

serj.8214:

Biklen.5490:

So I wanted to put a simple Rev guide with build and a decent explanation to the traits. I feel like this video could have been better but unfortunately time is an issue this week. Please try to watch all 13min of this video. I know it isn’t the most exiting video when it comes to visual effects but it answers most of the questions that my mailbox is filled with. Please note this video was only made because the community I attend too kept asking the same questions. I understand somebody who mains and has been playing REV might not enjoy this video so much. Once the patch drops I will make a new video that will be more advanced and more helpful to people who want to take it a little further. Also in the description you will find 2 roaming videos each showing the build off with the same gear-set and traits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAaUYvF88rw

I hope it helps Enjoy if it does,
~BalougaPOD

Demolisher amulet isnt good against condis and marauder would be better.

I would love demolisher stats in WvW. Don’t care for dueling, and in large scale fights you have resistance so condi don’t matter.

You can mix zerk/knight’s to get something close to demolisher

pierwola.9602:

Krysard.1364:

Perfect example of what? btw,believe me when I say that power reaper(which I miss), is way more braindead than condi reaper, you just rely on procs deleting the enemy

Perfect example of how they “balanced” the whole condi system around one singel thing, CONDI DAMAGE.

So a condi build is the perfect example of something, cause I still dont know what do you try to say with “condi system balanced around condi dmg”

Saiyan.1704:

Players do not easily switch classes based on team comp and class stacking is a huge issue in SoloQ.

My soloq experience is far different then

Meta mesmers are actually one of the most bearable duels if the mesm doesnt kite properly. Just engage/disengage continuosly and evade while in melee to avoid being hit by shatters. If you can bait his deffensive skills, negate clone generation and properly dodge shatters you may finish by defeating him. Its a losing matchup in equal skill lvl tho

You can reroll mid game anyway, so imo its not a prioritary issue

pierwola.9602:

messiah.1908:

also in pvp they is not dire amulet . so stop posting answer which belong to wvw thread

condi atm are balance beside small adjustment to warrior resistance and sustain

power build need some ticks here and there like power necro, mesmer and some nerf with sustain and passive like druid and engi and DH and warrior

that’s all

We are far, far away from condi balance and Power Necro is the perfect example of this.

Perfect example of what? btw,believe me when I say that power reaper(which I miss), is way more braindead than condi reaper, you just rely on procs deleting the enemy

Your allies only

Wait, is ppl here talking about WvW roaming? wtf?

TBH I’m happy with Anet reworking power traits in Reaper trait line

JTGuevara.9018:

Power builds on the other hand, can be….blocked, blinded, inflicted with weakness, mitigated with protection, invuln AND negation . I mean come on! It’s out of control! There’s a LOT of condi BS right now. Nobody can deny it.

And power is still prevalent, which says a lot about balance. Anyway, the reason condi exists is because all the power hate, which makes some power builds unviable and forces the use of condi buidls to kill things.

squall.4691:

idk why ppl want to condition to do damage like power builds
power build = power + cirt chnce + crit damage to do good damage with and also protection and weekness make your damage very veeeeery low .

in the other hand just ask your self what condition need to do damage ?
condition damage + crit conditiotn + condition crit damage ?
no nooooooo
its only need ( condition stats) to do damage more than power builds atm
i dont talk about only pvp look at wvw
its full of dire players that running condition + toughness + vitality and one shot evry one with 30k HP and 3.5k armor and protection not work on them and also weekness

if someone running power toughness vitality build he cant kill and thing
but condition can run any stats with condition and he dont lose any damage

is this normal for u ? and normal for arena net ?

Thing is, conditions dont do the same dmg as power.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I beat them often as Viper War, power Rev, and power DH. Not sure what the issue is.

Not to be mean, but if you beat scrappers with DH and viper war theres a clear skill difference between them and you.

Anet has encouraged condition builds because they were out of the meta. The reason for that was that running a condition build would just increase the time per kill while running power builds allows you to delete everyone, and were pretty much useless in teamfights. In order to solve it they have created power hate, so ppl can tank and heal more than others can dish out dmg, making condi builds a must in order to kill ppl.

Conditions are not broken, power hate is. Do you guys know how much more better power reaper is over condi reaper for instance? You can delete squishy builds by using RS#2 alone, but good job going through blocks, evades, protection, weakness, dmg mitigations, etc.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Condis need 1 stat to be powerful. Power needs 3.

You also don’t have nearly as many traits that simply proc on crit like condis do. Imagine a world where condi and power are on the same level.. You’d have things like protection, which would protect against condition damage. Toughness too.

See, the problem with condition damage is that you can do the maximum damage that condis can do and still manage to have 1/3 or 1/2 of your stats allocated to being a bunker. If you want to do the same with power, you need to go zerker. End of story. Imagine a full zerk player going up against a full ‘glass’ condi build.. (lets say that condition damage required 3 stats).. You’d be having some fair fights going on. But we don’t see that.

The reason people call other people out for being condi, and the reason why people say power takes more skill, is for the aforementioned reason. If you mess up as condi, it’s okay because you have a ridiculous amount of stats to help you out defensively. (Also did I mention that you’re still doing max damage as a condition dealer? I feel like people should know that.)

The thing is, power meta builds have waaay more sustain than condi ones do.

geekilo.8512:

Silv.9207:

Condition damage is at the same level of direct damage. They both need a skilled player to be really strong, they need to hit the enemy to be effective and there’s ways to mitigate them both, in different ways.
They’re two different ways to inflict damage and work with different mechanics, but they’re both strong.

Oh.My.God. Did you just say Condition build and Power build are on the same level ? Oh.LORD.
Let’s me prove to you most condition build are easier to play than power build.
Mesmer: Power shatter vs. Condi Shatter
Power shatter relies on F1 shatter, blurred frenzy, Mirrior blade combo, and phantasmal berserker. If you can dodge any of these 4 things listed above, that’s a whole lot of damage you’re avoiding. (require set-up, reaction based fight)
Condi shatter: All F abilities apply torment and confusion. Spam shatter. Tell me what do you dodge when you fight against a Condi shatter mes? what are the big skills you need to dodge ? ( no set-up require, cool-down based fight)

It still amazes me how ppl rly believes that power takes more skill than condi. Condi engi takes more skill than power engi for instance, so its totally irrelevant

Necros and invo revs

Wow, this sounds like hacks, hopefully Anet willl ban you

Good one tho

Just play warr, Adrenal Health is in a core trait line

If you like camping a weapon thief is the most safe bet

If only unranked matched ppl with same rating… I dont ask my team to try hard, but when your team gets farmed 4v3 at close the whole match, they are just messing around doing nothing, or some kittend up shiet and you have to carry like a modofok, not in order to win but to avoid being spawn-farmed, focusing the tards from the other team it just kills all the fun of playing.

OriOri.8724:

Krysard.1364:

Pip Squeak.3418:

Krysard.1364:

Pip Squeak.3418:

I think a lot of us would enjoy a nice relaxing between seasons unranked romp with properly balanced classes. Thanks!

You shouldnt be asking for a balance patch then

The death of logic… It hurts.

I mean, they are balanced now (except for DH), a balance patch would proly unbalance them.

They are more balanced now than the first two seasons yes (which could be fixed if ANet didn’t refuse to wait till the end of a season to apply balancing patches). But that doesn’t mean they are all that balanced. A truly balanced game is one where any class has multiple viable builds they could take into competitive PvP all the way up to legendary. And quite frankly this season lacked that as well.

You should be asking for build diversity, not balance then

Pip Squeak.3418:

Krysard.1364:

Pip Squeak.3418:

I think a lot of us would enjoy a nice relaxing between seasons unranked romp with properly balanced classes. Thanks!

You shouldnt be asking for a balance patch then

The death of logic… It hurts.

I mean, they are balanced now (except for DH), a balance patch would proly unbalance them.

All meta builds have always abused gimmicks

Pip Squeak.3418:

I think a lot of us would enjoy a nice relaxing between seasons unranked romp with properly balanced classes. Thanks!

You shouldnt be asking for a balance patch then

akaCryptic.2389:

I’ve been saying this for months:
Nerf all damaging condis durations by x% so people need to spec into expertise instead of toughness.

Im totally ok with this as long as Anet gives then proper condi amulets combinations.

Ranael.6423:

Isn’t the global powercreep from last year (spec update+ Espec release) responsible for bunker?

Both offensive and deffensive options have been powercreeped, so everything remains more or less like always.

This amulet is actually squishy (like demolisher) and wastes three of the four stats, two of them being the main ones, on dealing condi dmg. Lols.

Odokuro.5049:

Krysard.1364:

Depending on your trait choice you can build up to 100% crit chance from nothing. You should try to hit nearly 2500 power on non-PvP builds, in PvP due to fixed stats you cannot get as high.

And what about Armor/Crit Dmg %?

I’m mostly asking this for WvW, I was thinking atleast 2200 armor and 190% Crit DMG. You think this is ok?

Its a balanced stat combination, totally ok with it. From here you can tweak your gear if you feel like you need more dmg/sustain depending on your own experience

Depending on your trait choice you can build up to 100% crit chance from nothing. You should try to hit nearly 2500 power on non-PvP builds, in PvP due to fixed stats you cannot get as high.

Eval.2371:

Urdfexe.9147:

Eval.2371:

Condition damage needs to do as damage as power does without ferocity. Expertise should only affect condi duration on crits.
Protection needs to be universal in reduction.
Toughness needs to be universal in reduction.
Condi clear and Resistance need to go.

Until we get the above, they will remain an abuse case.

Fixed that for you.

I can agree with this as well.

I wouldnt get totally rid of condi clears, but making both conditions and clears more tactical would be obviously appreciated.

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Thief is my alter main, but I guess you’re right here too.

Such arguments, much wow.

Sure lol. I smell necro player

I AM a necro main, and I’ve a lot of ele/engi games played from ol’ fresh air and SD, actually more than thief games played. Dunno whats your point here. @Beep has his point of view and tries to defend it. What are you doing?

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

1. I’ve never said thief burst is to high
2. You hit 5k backstabs against bunkers/sustainers
3.Revs dont have the CC/chasing ability of thief, not even close
4.Thief allows for stealth bursts from both he and his team. You can delete revs, dps druids, eles, dps necros and pretty much anything with low sustain and without passive immune procs.

I’ve never said that I’m against thieves, nor that they are the only reason for bunkers to exist. Thats foolish. But sustainers are stacked each meta in order to avoid being randomly bursted(stealth) and chased to death(shadowsteps)

1. You said it’s a problem
2. I have never hit more than 6k in PvP with marauders and no might. Even on other thieves.
3. 1200 range leap every 5 to 7 seconds is pretty strong chasing. Thief CC is reduced to mug 20s CD, b venom kitten CD 1s stun, and risky head shot spam that depletes initiative quickly. And I guess panic strike, which druids have a 10x better version of. Revs have 2 knock backs that also cleave, 45 CD and 20 CD, as well as am AoE long stun.
4. Scrappers bring the same plus sustain.

Sustainers are stacked in each meta because they are more efficient and less risky than pure DPS for most classes. Thief is an outlier in that there is no sustain build that can tank a point and still fight back. And that is why it appears that thief contributes to locking out other DPS specs but we still had almost no DPS specs when thief was a non issue.

1.When I said its a problem, I think its quite clear I mean for squishy builds, which are the ones I’ve said are countered by thieves. I’ve never said their burst was broken. Next time I will spell it out more clearly in order to avoid being misunderstood for gw forum heroes tho.
2.Im not sure you should be able to hit a lot more of 6k without dmg modifiers.
3.Trying to say that revs have more cc/chasing capability is dumb
4.Trying to say that engineers have more stealthed solo/team burst is dumb.

I disagree. High dps builds are viable as long as you dont get deleted by a burst, because your supp will keep you alive. But Im quite sure trying to convince you is a pipe dream, as proly it is to convince me otherwise. But in my mind trying to say that a high burst/chasing build doesnt restrict squishy builds sounds dumb to me.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

So thieves have appropriate damage output but their burst is too high? Which burst, the 5k backstabs, the 1.8k mugs? Those numbers are nothing for how expensive backstab is because of stealth requirement and the CD on steal.

The chasing capability is all thieves have, and revenant comes close even after PT nerf. They don’t have the offensive support of revenants or the survivability and rez spam of scrappers.

1. I’ve never said thief burst is to high
2. You hit 5k backstabs against bunkers/sustainers
3.Revs dont have the CC/chasing ability of thief, not even close
4.Thief allows for stealth bursts from both he and his team. You can delete revs, dps druids, eles, dps necros and pretty much anything with low sustain and without passive immune procs.

I’ve never said that I’m against thieves, nor that they are the only reason for bunkers to exist. Thats foolish. But sustainers are stacked each meta in order to avoid being randomly bursted(stealth) and chased to death(shadowsteps)

alchemyst.2165:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

That’s kind of the point. They’re sneaky, slippery, fast, and deadly, but are very squishy and a single mistake can end them. It’s balanced out.

I find it funny/interesting that so many people are calling out thieves as a culprit.

I’m not against thief design. Im just stating that this design is really restrictive for squishy builds viability

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Krysard.1364:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Haha if thieves are the cause of bunker builds why were there still bunker builds in all seasons, even s1 and s2 when thief players were RIP? The historic salt is incredible.

Maybe thieves were rip cause everyone was playing bunker?

Yeah totally not because of elite spec power creep, lol. If thieves were rip because everyone was playing bunker, but everyone was playing bunker because of thieves, what was the point of playing bunker? Maybe because it is more efficient in a point holding game mode?

Ofc you need bunkers in a point holding gamemode. I’ve never said that without thieves bunkers wouldnt exist. I’ve said that because thieves and what thief comps can lead to, metas tend to have more bunk/bruisers. Btw s1 is not a good referent because back then everything turned around quickness rezz.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Haha if thieves are the cause of bunker builds why were there still bunker builds in all seasons, even s1 and s2 when thief players were RIP? The historic salt is incredible.

Maybe thieves were rip cause everyone was playing bunker?

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

The #1 reason why i stack toughness and vitality – thieves.
If they get removed from game, i would never build any defense.

Revenants and scrappers say hi. kitten, scrappers can sometimes out damage thieves even without ferocity because of might and ridiculous hammer numbers.

But you can kite scrappers. Problem with thieves is not their dmg output, but their burst and chasing capability.

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

You have an I’ll founded hatred of thieves. I main Mesmer and they hard countered us at one point….I don’t hate them though.

Since the release of the June 23rd patch of 2015 you have had nothing to fear from thieves…..over a year ago. Get over it and maybe roll one if you’re still scared

Thief is my alter main, but I guess you’re right here too.

Such arguments, much wow.

Azukas.1426:

Krysard.1364:

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Nope the reason people don’t run glass on other classes is not b/c of thief, but rather b/c of more effective builds for there class. You could delete thief from the game right now and the builds for the other classes would remain the same.

I wouldn’t switch off my condi shatter mesmer that’s for kitten sure.

Wow! you’re right! I was blind the whole time, but thanks to your experience and huge amount of irrefutable evidences now I can see the truth.

I’ve said that its not only thief fault, but burst comps with thief will just stealth-delete most DPS builds that arent broken or have passive bs, which leads to ppl running more safe builds. If this type of bursts dont exist, all what we have left is sustainers/bruisers (actual meta), which doesnt have high amounts of dmg and allows for more squishy build, e.g. I can easily play viper necro against meta comps cause I will not die before a support heals me but as soon as the enemy team has a thief Im done.

Zenith.7301:

tomwjd.8172:

As somebody mentioned earlier, this is only the case because the current pve meta takes into account of really high quickness uptime from boonshare chronomancer.

With that said, you need to take this issue to the pve discussion or the chrono forums because most other professions are in the same state at the moment when it comes to meta pve rotation (raids, fractal, dungeon). Take DH rotation for example: camp hammer and spam 1.

In fact, you shouldn’t even try to justify thief mechanics and game play based on pve because pve in general is faceroll. In high level pvp settings, you will note that thief has probably the highest mechanical learning curve compared to other professions and requires pinpoint player interactions to be successful.

If you want to press other buttons other than 1 and feel rewarded in pve, I’d recommend engineer.

Only problem with that suggestion is nobody wants engineers in raids.

People already barely want daredevils in raids and they compete with ele on DPS but lack the group utility. Engineer is like 5k DPS behind daredevil and suffers from the same lack of worthwhile utility to a group.

And it won’t be the first time a PvP guy calls raids faceroll. I could say the same of playing a perma evade/stealth thief cheese build in WvW or grabbing a PU condi aids mesmer in PvP. Definition of faceroll.

Or I could be a MOBA elitist kitten and scoff at MMO PvP. None of them are useful positions.

The fact that this post exists demonstrates that PvP gamemodes requires and allows for more variated skill combos, which was what tom was based on when saying that most PvE is facerolling (which it actually is, cause raids/whatever arent most of this game pve)

Condi dmg is less skilled than direct dmg, mesms and necros can bunk af and everyone is running 1000 CCs per second so they are more spammable than stab, dodges, immus, blocks… Sounds like gw2 forum

Azukas.1426:

Thieves are a non factor. Look at pro league if you disagree.

The problem is and always will be classes that are tanky as kitten but can push out stupid amounts of damage.

Remember Hambow, cele ele, cele engi, etc. That’s the REAL problem and has been for a LONG time.

To blame thieves for this mess is a cop out when the real blame lies with anet

I look at pro league and I dont see any assassin type build, which thief counters. Also, the most yolo builds, which were invo rev and wanderer warr, swapped to retribution and rabid (extra toughness) when playing against thieves.

Ayyy lmaaaaooo