Guild Wars 2

Don’t worry about trying to copy it because stealth is going to be nerfed soon.

Another semi excuse making post. The conquest style is not why the game is unpopular. Its lack of meaningful progress/rewards, any way to distinguish yourself from other players via a meaningful rank system, and some very unfun game mechanics such as stealth and pet spam that are driving people away.

Pride N Greed.8106:

Since the last SOTG, I would like to know from the Community if you want Conquest as the sole competitive game mode.Do you guys feel there is another another game mode that should replace conquest?(Arena’s,TDM,Moba style etc..). Since Anet is inclined to focus on it.I would like to you what you guys think. A simple Yes or No answer will do.

I will tally up all the Yes and No’s over a period of time. Maybe a month or so?

Reason I am doing this survey is to find out if this is what the community wants as the Competitive Esport.

Yes-24(46%)
NO-28(54%)

P.S Only vote one please its hard to keep track of every single person’s name thanks!This post is strictly for Competitive game mode not for “fun” mode!

Conquest is fine I just think the secondary mechanics are crap and kills should be worth more points.

Actually its pretty immature to continue making excuses for A-net. See as an adult person I hold myself and other people accountable. That’s how the real world works. Sure I give people some slack initially but this game has been out for 7 months and they sold millions of copies they should have the resources to get things done faster. Just because they invite you to state of the games and sound like nice guys that really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. I’d rather they treat me with contempt but actually deliver what they have promised. The sad thing is this game has already jumped the shark no matter what they do. They might be able to improve the population somewhat but they’ll never been able to get it back to what is was at release. You’ll see. Eventually you will have to come out of cloud cukoo land and take off the rose colored glasses.

What are these leaderboards going to track exactly. This game confuses me with these rank points which you can still get tons of in a loss. Do actual w-l matter in this game? If they do then what the heck is the purpose of “rank points”.

All I read in the op, which I stopped reading half way through, is its the players fault for wanting what was promised from Anet from beginning. Clearly Anet has delivered a superior product so superior that in North America there are probably about 100-200 people doing spvp regularly. The less so called pro’s post to be honest the happier I would be. I blame most of you for the problems with this game because A-net listened to a lot of your opinions when developing this mediocre product in beta. Games should not be developed from the top down but from the bottom up.

Braxxus.2904:

clay.7849:

Braxxus.2904:

Because all damage all the time is mindless and has no depth, it’s over in 3 seconds for all the ADD kiddos out there. If anything burst damage is to blame for most everything that is complained about in PvP (conquest being the other big thing to blame).

Many people prefer a game of chess in their PvP with plays and counterplays, strategy and depth. Others just prefer damage because anything over 2 seconds is longer than their ability to retain cognitive thought and would cause their brain to explode.

GW2 != Chess.

No strategy or depth in needing to hold 2 points to win.

I did not speak about GW2 specifically in what you quoted either. It was an analogy used for the nature of DPS only vs DPS+Mitigation+CC+etc.

All these anti-bunker threads are is the same old complaints coming from PEWPEWZOMGBURSTDEEEPZ! players in every MMO. Also while GW2 might not be chess, it would be even LESS chess-like without bunkers to mitigate the absurdity of loldamage bursters running rampant.

The bunker play style is current over-powered period. What would win a match five bunkers versus five dps? Im betting on the bunkers especially since some bunkers can still do quite a bit of damage. Right now every team basically has to have one bunker to win. You can easily win matches with zero glass cannon dps. The arche-type is too strong over-all. I play a guardian bunker. Defending stuff that is op will not help the long term health of this games pvp. Its basically already almost dead. They sold us this game as basically roll with what you want and you can be competitive. That is not close to the case.

Oni.5429:

This map is one of the few maps where bunkers arent that much of a problem in competitive play o_ó

Pro alert! I know more then you do! Well you are not quite saying that lol. Try solo queuing some time it might change your opinion on some things. You can’t expect this game to be balanced around the most competitive teams for one thing there are like 2 of them.

I cant believe people still respond to this guys postings. All he is some dude who never runs in anything but a full premade of rank 45+ people and has a guild name that is border insulting to your average player. We need to get past the idea that this type of players input is somehow more valubable then your average player that pugs or occassionally runs in groups its not.

Healing is fine. No one ever said there would be no healing in this game.

Jax.5261:

Sanctuary is amazing in tPvP, I don’t play WvW enough to have decided.
But in PvP you pretty much have to have it, if you’re running any form of support. If it were much bigger it would be sooooo overpowered.
Right now it’s used for stopping stomps or securing stomps 95% of the time and sometimes if it’s your last option to stay alive.

Not as great as you make it out to be sorry even in TPVP. So you can secure one stomp or rez every 90 seconds. Never mind that you could conceivably still be aoe’d to death or even melee’d to death while in sanctuary since most melee attacks have like 130 range so they can reach you in sanctuary. Its a very buggy ability as well if you don’t “establish” yourself as being in sanctuary by moving and stopping it doesn’t effect you. I personally think its one of those things that pro’s use because everyone tells themselves how great it is but if you swapped it our for something else you wouldn’t really notice its gone. Basically you have convinced yourself how great it is based on the occasional high light type play you can make with it even though 99% of the time its not that great at all.

Follidus.8027:

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

I don’t like this because if someone is “defending” a point that never gets hit, he’s useless to the team because it’s a 4 vs 5 on the other 2 points.

One thing people need to understand about “defending” points is that they shouldn’t be sitting on the point the entire game. You should be where the action is at.

This shows how blind you are to the solo player/pug experience. First of all, I pug and I bunker a lot and there is never a chance where you sit on a spot all match and never get attacked. NEVER HAPPENS. Secondly, the way your average pug tournament game goes every one circle jerks around the map. If you leave a point you will lose it within 30 second 95% of the time. Also, action is going on at 2-3 points in any pug match even in a tournament at almost any time. How can I be at all these spots? The problem is people like you view things through a very limited prism of very organized high level competition. Never mind the fact that the whole scoring system is a ludicrous idea w-l is all that should matter and often rewards bad play. You say guarding a node all match is bad I can easily just say that pushing to points willy nilly and engaging in skirmish that really does nothing to win the actually game is bad and is rewarded too well. There are 2 sides to the coin here other types of bad play are richly rewarded. I would say in 1/3 of my wins the average score of the losing team is higher then the that of the winning team because they just zerged around the map taking one point at a time and collecting kills at each point only to be constantly down 2 points the whole match and losing. But they get rewarded with a lot of rank points doing this.

mbh.8301:

Main design speedbump: pvp is being developed in a way that pvers won’t be scared of new and exciting things when they fight for glory in the mist wars.

The conventional perception of pvp right now is that it needs a lot of changes which will make pvers have to read skills all over again when they get to the mists. Pvers not having all their rings / earrings / hair braids already caused mild freakouts, and that is something which anet wants to avoid – because the fundamental tenet of pvp design here is that it should have no learning curve (as far as skills / equipment goes) for pvers to transition.

So the next time you have a totally valid complaint / suggestion / whatever, consider the following:
Would a pver have to learn something new in order to play?

If the answer is yes, then assume that anet is trying every last possible option which involves the answer being “no”.

What a bunch of elitist hogwash. Some of you still don’t seem to understand why this game has such a tiny pvp base. Its not because it caters too much to casuals that’s for sure.

Defektive.7283:

I play tPvP (as a Warrior).

I also spend far to much time making builds in the hope they will be viable (95% of them aren’t).

The latest patch was a disappointment for me in terms of tPvP strategy depth and class skill depth.

As in: I personally don’t feel that this game is not mature enough to be considered strategically significant past timing of taking nodes and locking enemies in bad positions.

A good example from SOTG was during the Spirit Watch discussion – how winning your first real battle for the Orb can easily snowball the rest of the game. That’s the only ‘skill’ I see in this game, forcing your enemy into a role that gives you a incredible lead.

I think the only class’s that have a high skill potential are Engys/Necros/Ele’s, mainly because all of these classes have diverse skill mechanics.

---

But I play a Warrior, and it feels like torture. Even with the mentioned banner buff – that won’t be enough to make banners useful. Many weaponsets are blatantly not viable, especially where Mobility is king.

Also: Warrior traits for sPvP don’t line up.
Example:
1) Confusion on interrupt - well they can’t attack you anyway during a stun so putting Confusion on them makes no difference, where’s the logic behind this?

2) Gain 5 stacks of Might and proc Berserkers Rage (SP?) - granting adren regen. Why is this a 30 point talent? It’s a 10 pt talent at best.

I feel pigionholed, and often times helpless to conditions or the better classes who have more mobility, control, sustained damage, healing or bunker abilities.

---

Personally, I’ve been playing this game since launch. My warrior is 80, I’ve met many interesting people, most of which I’d call my (e)friends. But at this point, my will to play has been lost. Without any real, definitive, tangible changes in the future I find it difficult to reason with myself to keep playing.

I’m not going to mention how the inherent class mechanics and ‘templates’ that classes have been built on turn away new players. I’m not going to mention the lack of in-game incentives to keep playing.

All I’m trying to say is. What reason is there for someone like me (a PvPer) to not uninstall and move on? Because at this rate, it’s looking like I’ll do it tomorrow night after I move (I’m moving tomorrow yay packing).

Thoughts? Expressions? Emotions? Negative feedback? Let me know what you think I (or someone in my position) should do.

Thank you.

There is no reason. Take a break and come back in a few months maybe things will magically be fixed but I doubt it. These games rarely dig themselves out of early holes.

wintermute.4096:

kailin.4905:

Xsorus.2507:

No, they said they’re looking at shatter to see if its overpowered, which they won’t determine till after they buff Greatsword/Scepter…Then and only then will they nerf Shatter

So essentially give one of the two or three most powerful and played classes another OP ability then MAYBE nerf there other OP ability a month or five down the road. Meanwhile everyone playing rolls mesmer and loses there kitten when the nerf does come about leading to them re-buffing it the following patch.

Making Greatsword piercing can hardly be called op. After all, it’s #1 is one of the weakest in the game in terms of dps, and how often can you really consistently line up people who are not complete scrubs anyway?
If that is the compensation mesmers get for their primary source of burst, yea, that’s a pretty hard hitting nerf.

Zinwrath.2049:

Xeph, i nearly lost it at my computer …like into tears when you brought up how fighting mesmer/theifs is frusterating and confusing for new players coming into hotjoins and the entire room goes dead silent.

That was the most memorable moment of the whole interview. I pretty much think that summed up everything for me. Massive kick to the nuts, GJ.

Sorry, but we the first impression something makes on complete newbs is not something that should be that important for balancing. Any burst-heavy build can be frustrating for newbs, just look at all the screaming about bull rush + frenzy + 100b after launch. That’s something that surely was pretty frustrating when you had to learn that not doding at the right time was pretty much game over.

Attitudes like this are part of these reason the pvp community is dieing in addition to the cluelessness of the devs. That’s right new players should just shut up and take it that’s a smart way to build your player base up leave in op mechanics because pros can deal with them. Seriously you people get what you deserve in the end which will be like the same 50 morons queuing for tournaments a few months down the line.

Caffynated.5713:

You always want to know more, but I thought we got a lot of good info today on what to expect in the not too distant future (SOOONN™). Some people were never going to be happy.

MMORPG companies love people like you. You are willing to be stepped on forever and be blindly loyal. Well enjoy playing with the same 100 people because that’s what its going to be in a month or two. You spent good money of this game you have every right to demand more then they have given so far. Don’t be such a pushover it’s these guys job to put out a quality product. They are failing.

These guys don’t get it what more is there to understand? They might be the nicest guys on the planet and it might be true that they don’t have much in the way of resources but they are completely clueless about balance and what features this game has to have and much sooner then later. The pvp side of this game is doomed. The only MMORPG game that ever built its population up after early mis-steps was Eve Online. Its foolish to think they will make changes fast enough to get people to come back. This game has already blew it.

The general ideas outlined here are good ones. One of the main complaints I get from friends who do WvWvW about spvp is lack of rewards and feeling of it being totally cut off from the rest of the game. Sadly pvping just for fun doesn’t cut it for long for a lot of people. Heck I love to pvp but I do need more then what this game offers right now to keep playing too much longer.

I’d like to ask the devs if they feel like the classes in this game came out of the box more or less magically balanced because the amount of class changes has been amazingly small since release. I’ve played just about every MMORPG to come down the pike that had any kind of substantial pvp and there was constant balancing and polishing of the classes from the start. Baby steps is an understatement to describe A-nets philosophy on class change although I think “not enough resources” is more likely the culprit.

Stealth is a bad game mechanic. Ever since Dark Ages of Camelot (the first pvp MMORPG with it that I know of) it has been a controversial mechanic. It doesn’t matter if it can be countered or not it is totally unfun to play against and often leaves people on the receiving end feeling like they were cheated somehow.

Verisuvalise.3615:

Prior to last week, I hadn’t queued for tournies at all.
I mostly stuck to hotjoin, and since I’m not PvE lvl-capped, i’ve stayed away from WvW a lot as well.
This was mostly due to my lack of a functioning mouse — PvPing with a touchpad is garbage — but I had been doing it for a few weeks.
Interestingly, it taught me a lot about PvP that I wouldn’t have learned if I was zipping around with lightning-quick movements (and thus, viable in 1v1).
For example: How to win a game without killing anything.

Knowing that if I engaged 1 or more opponents who would actually target me (for example, if i wasn’t with the group, as im usually not) I would die almost instantly and therefor be a detriment to my team, I found ways to try and offset that handicap.

What I discovered:

+Kiting more than one person.
Easier said than done, for sure, especially with no mouse. However, if you are successful and can keep more bodies busy than it takes to keep them, you’re giving your team a real advantage numerically

+Downing without stomping.
In group settings, sometimes stomping the enemy is less beneficial unless they’re sitting on the node you’re taking. Simply prevent them from being revived (interrupts include Stun, Daze, Knockback, Knockdown) and keep their hp ~50%. Not that much fun for my enemies, true, but hey, neither was being Heartseekered 100-0 by baddie thieves while I ran endlessly into a wall when my first mouse started crapping out and I didn’t have keyboard turn bound.
kitten? No way!

+Manage your mobility to get you around as needed.
This is a big thing, and I don’t think a lot of people have realised how flexible their mobility skills can be. Now, this is not to say for every class, but classes with targetted teleports (I can think of Mesmers and Ele’s, outside of thieves) should roll thieves and play with IA until they know the ins and outs.

+Being proactive about bases
Crucial to winning, being smart about base management is, essentially, the best way to ensure a win. For example, if you have 3 teammates defending a node, and there’s no one trying to take it from you, all 3 of those players are wasting their time until an attack comes. AT LEAST 2 should head to somewhere else — perhaps help defend the base the opposition WILL be assaulting at that time, or perhaps assaulting the node the opposition had left dry. If you’re glass and solo-defending a node with more enemy bodies than you’ve got on their way in, running can be your best option. Firstly, it prevents you from dying (and therefor you don’t miss the ~20 seconds you spend getting back into the fight) and can sometimes cause them to chase you, potentially slowing the rate that they cap your node. — Also, try and guess where they where coming from, and go take that base.

+Try to fight on / very near nodes unless you’re kiting.
This makes it more of a bonus for a teammate to come support you, because you aren’t in the middle of no-where with no guaranteed points rolling in. It also means the kill was, theoretically, worth more.

But, I bought a mouse (corsair m95, and boy is it delicious) and can say comfortably that if I’m sober and not falling asleep in my chair, I can pump out good win/loss in quick tournies regardless of my team (the sobriety part is the biggest inhibitor, mind you).

However, when I DO get a team that just doesn’t know WTF they are doing, and I try to explain to them how to provide more for their team, I tend to get trolled / insulted / boycotted by a fluctuating percentage of the enemy team, resulting in a loss.

You had the common sense to be able to jump into matches and learn to swim. A lot of this stuff can be explained but it really can’t be taught just by others telling you have to take some lumps while figuring it our on your own during matches. There are things people have to kind of learn on there own through experience and practice. Somebody telling you and you learning through trial and error and paying attention to what works during matches are totally different things. The latter one is 100% more valuable imo.

I always try to play the right way regardless of score. You can’t avoid the better players anyway its a 5 v 5 the maps are not that large. Even an empty node takes long enough time to cap for someone to get there before you could take it and leave. You don’t get better avoiding fights with better players and using bad strategies.

Please the best MMORPG pvp was in DAOC most of you clowns wouldn’t have been able to deal with the crowd control and interrupt system. To say RVR type game play is not pvp is ignorant. The reason why WvWvW is mediocre is because A-Net refuses to give players the tools so that smart small groups can take on large groups of less skilled players. I prefer the type of pvp where I take a smallish group and basically take on all comers whether it be groups of the same size or 3-5x bigger. There is an excitement in that goes beyond static matches where you know what to expect every time which is 5 people with no surprises.

The scoring system is ill thought out and supports bad play.

Exactly and this isn’t hard queue it goes with what is available. Thats why they need to add things to draw in more casual players.

It’s not really true though. There are games with a lot of this stuff that are just more then PVP games. Rift, Warhammer, and WoW come to mind. They might not have everything listed here but more things then GW2 has.

At the very least there needs to be ladders, more game modes, and more statistics. The watching matches stuff is e-sports nonsense. Not that Im necessarily against it just that there is a laundry list of others things that are way more important. You can’t have esports with a pvp community that is literally a couple hundred people on a good day. Lets add the absolute basics that MMORPG pvp players have come to expect first to try to grow the population base.

The main problem is a lot of these people don’t want to learn or seem incapable of learning even the basics let alone the finer points. Its not even a skill issue its more of a commons sense issue. I expect to lose a lot when I solo queue what I do not expect is people not knowing how to finish off downed players ( I mean the actual mechanic of stomping they stand there and dps randomly even when there is no one else around), people attacking 3 points at a time, and multiple people capping empty points to kitten points because of A-nets crappy scoring system. Those three are rampant in your average solo que game. Even when corrected in a non hostile tone during the matches people often continue to do the same things over and over again. It takes a modicum of effort to learn the basics and believe it or not that is too much for a lot of people.

All this e-sports talk is nothing but vapor and does more harm then good because instead of working on things to make pvp more fun and rewarding for the average player we have people clamoring for the devs to waste time on things like spectator mode and to cater to the very few hardcores left. Why is it vapor? Because the pvp population of this game is too low. Low to the point where you will never get enough players playing to have the amount of competitive teams necessary for an e-sport. Even if the pvp population increases significantly which almost never happens with a MMORPG once any kind of decline happens the next barrier of entry will stop any idea of e-sport. Mainly the barrier of entry to high level competitive play are simply too high. You need to have at least 5 people that can all get along and basically schedule part of there lives around this game. There are other things but I don’t need to go into them because these 2 things are gigantic. Lets fix the base game first which is quite lacking and then we can worry about the white whale of e-sport. Talk about horse before the cart thinking this game launched with.

Its driving me crazy. Its been out about five days now. Learn how to play it. Its all everyone does how can people not understand the basics of this map.

I don’t know how I can even build my rating for 3 round tournments the wait is intolerable most of the time. It took about 15-20 minutes to get one to pop last night in prime time. When you can get a 1 round tournament every 1 minute the vast majority of people aren’t even going to do the 3 round.

They are unbalanced though. Look at the guardian down state they get a push back whoowee. The fact of the matter is some classes have better downed states then others and there is really no legitimate case why it should be so. Why should class x have a better downded state then class z. It is unbalanced. That doesn’t mean you can’t deal with it and overcome it most of the time with smart play but just by simple logic it is unbalanced.

Personally I think A-net has to put all illusions of e-sport grandeur on hold and worry about actually growing the player base by putting in features players actually want and taking more decisive steps in balancing the classes. It irritates me when people mention a spectator mode something like that should be so far down the list as to be almost unseeable at this point. It seems to me they tried to build spvp from the top down when should have built it from the bottom up.

Come on now they nerfed RTL to 20 seconds what more do you want to do to elementalist the class is almost ruined! We need to get more of the top teams on the test server they’ll fix everything they are much smarter then us average players! I know the best way to get feedback is to just talk to a very small amount of the player base and value there opinion over every one else’s. It’s genius.

Arena nets who process is amateurish and flawed. Whoever these players are that are supposedly helping out testing stuff I’d like to say thanks for nothing. Why don’t you try playing this game solo on undesirable class/builds you might be able to take off your rose colored glasses you have on because you run coordinated groups all the time where it almost doesn’t matter what you run except against a handful of top teams. Being on a top team can skew your opinion on balance as much as anything. Just the cohesion you have playing with a set group of people over time can fly paper over a lot of things. Until Arena net starts involving the player base at large, instead of a few select chosen ones, we are going to continue to be disappointed. It’s a shame really I can’t remember the last MMORPG that was able to reverse course once the ship was sinking in recent memory. Devs never seem to have the guts to do what is necessary quick enough. The player base almost never blames you from trying something radical. Trying things shows you care. People aren’t going to wait around forever.

Yes, don’t ever do anything ambitious. Just leave the game in its current broken state. It can wait until some far flung time in the future after more pve content updates and expansions. Stop making excuses for Arena Net. They made millions on this game already. They need to hire more people to be involved with pvp period. For a so called pvp game they do less class changes then any pvp game I’ve ever played. Apparently the game was super balanced right out of the box they nailed everything in the beta’s!

These ele nerfs are not significant. Just delete the class? Please. People are sick of the lack of builds that work in this game and the difference in power between various classes. It’s a joke.

Panda.1793:

Zin.6170:

NinjaEd.3946:

Anyone ever listen to their live interviews? They don’t drastically change anything, its step by step. Otherwise it just skews things out of wack and playing wack a mole never fixed the playing table.

I think we have seen how this philosophy has worked out for them. Players left en masse.

Agreed, gw1 updates ust to kitten people off with dart board buffs/nerfs but at least it didnt really get stale and opened up a lot more options for strats and team comps. I wonder if they have ever been bored of their own game

Anet need to learn how to interface with the community better because the way they approach this sort of thing is amateurish at best. The MMORPGs I have played the most in the past DAOC, Warhammer, and Rift the devs would share possible class balance changes with the player base literally months in advance and there would be give and take on both sides along with the player-base being able to test the proposed changes. Many times if the changes were deemed too much they were rolled back pre-patch or adjusted. The way they do things right now just won’t cut it.

People mistakenly believe that FPS style combat equals good. Not that I don’t enjoy the combat because I do but compared to something like DAOC was in it’s hey day it is shallow by comparison.

I don’t know if its the conquest maps are bad but how little you are rewarded for the killing that occurs. Imo they should double the points generated for kills.

No for a bunch of reasons. Its not my job to do A-nets job nor do I want to be forced into longer tournaments that take longer to pop. Never mind the fact that only a small percentage of the player base even comes to this forum. I mean I could go on really. Basically to sum it up it won’t work. If what A-net says is true and they will try to match up solo’s with solo’s first that should be enough for now. Baby steps.

I cant believe somebody is complaining about this lol.

As long as it really does try to put solo with solo when it can I personally think thats fine. Hard queues can be bad if there aren’t enough players you just wait which I personally don’t like.

It’s a start if the matchmaking is good. Only a blind hater would say its worse then what we have now.

Here is a brilliants idea lets nerf a pet thats up 50% of the time or less so it dies in 10. SW were far from useless before this nerf. I’m tired of reading that. They were hilarious and often powerful when the awful pathing didn’t defeat them. I used to roll up insane kill ammounts in free tournaments with them. Sure they weren’t the most optimal but they really were a lot of fun for me pvp. I’ve since changed to a more routine spec but it saddens me I won’t be able to pwn bad glass cannon builds in free tournaments in under 10 seconds with them anymore.

Spirit Weapons, before this nerf, were far from rubbish. The 3 second on command stun on Hammer is very powerful. The aoe on the sword hits hard. Glass Cannon dps builds had to do nothing but run from them because they could almost singlehandedly kill someone if you time the knockdown and the sword aoe. Sure if you were like a super serious tpvp player was it the most optimal no. But I did tons of free tournaments with a spirit weapon dps build and I would destroy a lot of people and really was about as good a dps as I could get without going into a ridiculous glass cannon build. I don’t want to here about other pets because Spirit Weapons are temporary pets. They have to be powerful because you only have them about half the time and you have to invest tons of trait points into making them good. This nerf is stupefying.

Ok I just tried it man that number flashes by quick.

Hmm thanks I must have that turned off somehow

Am I missing something? Like when I use a self healing skill and I look at the combat logs its not returning anything. Is that how it is supposed to work? I understand healing is not a big part of this game but it would be nice to be able to see it so I can make certain determinations. I know there are tool tips but there are abilities that you can make heal with traits that will not show you how much they heal are never mind the fact I don’t 100% percent trust the tool tips anyway.