Guild Wars 2

Well I main a Charr Guardian. Now I’ll be honest and say I don’t play other classes with Charr, so I can’t speak to that much, so I guess my main issue is with Guardian class and Charrs.

I don’t think it matters with the branch types. the #2 is a leap-like finisher. It’s the same animations that other races get for their Guardian’s GS #3, Leap of Faith skill. However, we don’t get the privilege of that. We get a clumsy looking slam that’s similar to the the Hammer slam. It’s the same with the GS autochain, the third attack is a flasy spin move on other races, with Charr, its just another side slash animation.

Why do all the other races have graceful strikes and combat moves compared to Charrs? I mean, we’re feline! We’re supposed to be showing off finese. Even the awkward, clunky Norns have graceful skills.

Take for example Guardian GS skills. The 3rd attack in the autochain and the #3 Leap of Faith has some flashy movements with the other races. We don’t.

I know the animations are there too for Charr. Look at the #2 skill when you grab an enviromental weapon such as a Branch.

I call discrimination!

Orc Slayer.2780:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Only got 20 gold in my pocket

looking for a bargain?

Popin’ tags, mate, popin’ tags! You like my big kitten coat from the thrift shop down the road btw?

Oh I know that, but I couldn’t figure out what the original poster is saying. I guess he’s saying you should have a warrior in your party to provide banners? Or maybe its a typo and he meant to say guardian. /shrug.

But yeah, 9 times out of 10, when ppl brag about high dps, the mob has stacked conditions adn the player is stacked up on boons from multiple sources.

haviz.1340:

If you can exchange 60 power for 6% crit chance (126 precision) why are you even asking? Power is better but not twice better unless you have very low crit dmg.

Calculating effectiveness of sigil of strength is a bit troublesome, I don’t see you mentioning what kind of weapon do you use. But let’s assume GS. With +90% might duration while autoattacking just one target you should achieve ~2.3 stacks of might on average. With 38% crit chance its ~2.7 stacks of might. Assuming your current power as 1800 the conclusion is that sigil of force will give you effectively 2.57 stacks of might but that’s under the assumption that you will have no stacks of migth ever (sigil of force effectiveness increases with adding more stacks of might). Effectiveness of sigil of strength will increase with fast attacking skills like Whirling Wrath (because you have low crit chance).

Codo.2860:

Interesting! If you’re right, considering Whirling Wrath, multiple mobs and Fury (Save Yourselves alone gives a good % uptime) Sigil fo Strength could be a very good choice!

BTW, like said many times no doubt can exist between 60 Power and 6% Critical Chance.

I guess I’m just hesitant to give up that 60 power since it doesn’t rely on chance. It’s always a guaranteed benefit.

Thanks for those two posts, gentlemen. That really puts things in perspective. I’ve done some testing with Strength several times, but seeing the math up there really backs up my conclusions.

Comparing Guardian and Warrior, to sum it up:

Warrior = best burst dps
Guaridan = best sustained dps

Support can be = for both

Personally, I think a lot of people play and build Warriors the wrong way, thus why you see a lot of complaints about Guardians vs Warriors.

Wait, what?

I’m a bit confused here. Is that your Guardian that did the damage or a Warrior in your party?

Aberrant.6749:

Boons (when used properly) are strong enough to where the dev’s are now looking into finding a way to have a more solid counter to them for other specific classes.

Actually, you can blame bunker eles for that, not guardians. The devs are too stup… err I mean…. devs are too busy to actually play guardians and realize that this boon hate system that youre alluding to is actually gonna hit several other classes.

Even still, they aren’t strong enough for the class design to warrant such an extreme. If they are going to introduce such crap, they need to compensate for it else where. Remember: guardians are supposed to feel powerful with boons and weak without them….. Whatever. So much for class design and direction. Makes me wonder if the devs actually went to school and understood the concept of main idea and sticking to it.

Don’t get me wrong though. I’m in favor of not having escapes. I used to at first, but I agree that it’s against class design. However, they need to give us the tools to “stay” in the fight though. Sure we have workarounds, but there shouldn’t be just workarounds. Again, that’s not class design. That’s a flaw in it that they failed.

Indure.5410:

What exactly are you trading out in your build that is causing you to lose power for crit chance? Gear? Traits?

Gear. My traits will never change* as I’ve found a build that I absolutely love. I’m mainly trying to tweak around my gear to min/max it. I think I’ve got my optimal figured out, but I’ve come up with a crossroads with two gear builds. One with less power but more crit chance, something which I was trying to get more of anyways. The other with more power, but less crit chance. I’m quite familiar with the advantages to either, including the maths Brutality is alluding to. I’m leaning towards adding the extra 6% crit chance, but want to be sure I’m not missing something from my thoughts by the loss of that 60 power.

@Excursion. I’m not really sure why you felt the need to advise me on a build. I’m more than familar with all the builds out there, including unconventionals/unpopulars, and have tested and spent quite a bit of gold testing them. I’ve been playing since release, but I appreciate the thought nonetheless.
Also, that’s not the only gear choices out there.

*assuming the fundamentals to the build don’t get nerfed to crap or there is a drastic change in other trait lines.

Svarty.8019:

[Quote]Arenanet said,

“Once they get in, they are expected to stay in and to … keep going” (No, not “die” as everybody in the audience was doubtless expecting)….. Oh except when you’re facing more than 3 opponents. Then you’re SOL.

Fixed for what he should have said.

With all due respect haviz, did you read any of the above replies I’ve made? I’ve already put a few assumptions out there that answer those depending factors.

Let’s assume I have a LOT of boon duration, forget trash mobs, and concentrate on bosses. Let’s also assume 1v 1/2/3 only in WvW (albeit, I didn’t put that out there).

haviz.1340:

With such low crit chance it’s often better to equip different sigil.

So what do you think then would be a good crit chance % to warrant the use of Strength?

Same here. No purchase allowed. I wonder if it has something to do with having a different email addresses with my Paypal and my GW2 account.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Mourningcry.9428:

Shootsfoot.9276:

…but since there will essentially not be craftable higher tier gear introduced to the game, what happens to the TP when everybody has all they need for their characters?

Would you be able to provide a source for that? I must have missed that announcment. Thanks.

You must’ve missed the introduction of ascended gear and the reception to it.

Hmm, don’t see anywhere that Anet said crafting won’t go there eventually.

But to get back on topic, as others have stated. Skins will be the lifeblood of the TP.

Dynnen.6405:

All you Save Yourselves fans give necros a woody everytime they see you

It’ll be that way for the Boon Hate system as well. Here’s a hint though: trick them into wasting their skills that stip boons/damages boon’ers, and then pop SY!

While math can be fun, let’s not also forget about the other benefits to crit chance: the boons you can potentially get. In particular, the two boon givers mentioned in the above post, or simply put, might stacking.

Now with my current build, and crit chance of 31%, I’ve never been able to get 25 stacks of might solo, unless I use staff#4. This is also assuming a high boon duration, which I think is key to might stacking. That being said, I don’t normally use staff in combat situations.

Further I feel that I’m losing out on might stacks due to not critting every 2 seconds (the cd from Strength sigil).

I guess then at this time, does the loss of 60 power = the potential might stacks I could be getting? Let’s also leave out the AH factor, unless it applies to you personally. I don’t use AH, even in grouping. Let’s also think mostly about boss situations in PvE since trash mobs aren’t really a factor imo, but don’t exclude WvW either.

Amins.3710:

w/o any real boon duration, EM is only going to give you 3-4 stacks of might on average.

This trait is sooo overvalued it’s insane, unless you’re running AH.

If not, go w/ something else. Srsly.

Let’s just assume I have a lot of bd.

I’d rather not disclose my build, for personal reason of course. But really, you can tell a lot about my build just from the first post. Empowering might and Strength depend on crit chance, which is why I’d like higher crit chance. Vigor regen is not a factor imo since it has such a high CD anyways.

I’ve been using the gw2buildcraft calc for awhile now. Actually been using it since it was released. Awesome tool too btw! What’s really funny is that my effective power is higher with the extra 6% crit chance instead of the extra 60 power!

I’m sitting at 32% crit chance and really want more, but the problem is doing so lowers my power and I don’t want to lower my other stats. So here’s what I’m looking at:

60 power vs 6 crit chance.

Keeping in mind I use Empowering might in combination with Strength rune, what’s your opinion on this? Should I give up 60 power for 38% crit chance?

Daecollo.9578:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Daecollo.9578:

You guys do realize I posted this on April first, right?

However I do find guardians kind of ridiculous at the moment.

I find it ridiculous that I can spend X amount of time trying to kill a monster and then a warrior walks up beside me to the same type and kills it in more than half the time it takes me. He’ll have finished off 3 by the time I’ve finished my measly 1.

Are you talking open world? Open world really does not matter, when they are both 80 and get critical gear, YES warriors will burn down mobs that stand still quickly.

However, when you actually reach hard content where mobs do more then just stand still and in pvp, Warriors DPS goes down the toilet. Guardians move DO do less damage, but you are MUCH MUCH more mobile so they’re actual realistic DPS is much higher. Don’t ask me how many times I had to cancel my attacks as a warrior mid-fight because my target walked away from me.

!!
O.O
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yep, you’re a troll alright. You need to go play the classes before you even post here anymore.

Congo Rats, you just became the second person I’ve added to my ignore list right there alongside the other guy who makes fun of people for using Consumables.

ValkoorSC.9178:

Longbow, we have terrible range with Scepter..

^ Corrected

:p

Boon duration is only worth it in high doses imo. To that note, Giver’s is not a good armor choice if that’s your only source of boon duration. The stats you give up for the measly increase to duration is better. To that end, consider also cleric or magi so that your dodge rolls push out more healing.

As a supporter, you need at least 5 in Virtues so that you give other boons as well as the activation of them.

Daecollo.9578:

You guys do realize I posted this on April first, right?

However I do find guardians kind of ridiculous at the moment.

I find it ridiculous that I can spend X amount of time trying to kill a monster and then a warrior walks up beside me to the same type and kills it in more than half the time it takes me. He’ll have finished off 3 by the time I’ve finished my measly 1.

1. Save Yourselves!
2. Leap of Faith
3. Smite Condition

1. All those buffs in one skill plus it’s a stun breaker! Add in boon duration and Superior Aria and it’s just golden.
2. It’s a gap closer whether for your target or for movement and doesn’t require a target to use. It also has decent damage. On top of that, it adds a blind and is a combo finisher. Just use #4 beside it and you’ve got instant retal.
3. Cures conditions and damages along with it. If you have Monk’s from the Valor trait line, it burst heals too.

No thank you on the flail. I’d much rather have an off hand sword.

chronometria.3708:

I think if my name was phlegm, I`d cough up the cash for a name change.

If my name was snot or bogey, I`d pay through the nose for one.

bows and exits stage left

/em claps. That’s hilarious.

Personally, I think they should change it to so you can sell some of this stuff.

Lane.3410:

Wow, I always thought I was abysmally poor, but the replies in this thread are making me feel rich. o_O

I have about 200g. I honestly thought that was very little for someone who has played ~20 hours a week since September. I’ve actually struggled to find ways to make more gold. What I have is mostly due to selling everything and buying little to nothing.

In defense of my abysmal wallet, and poppin tags now, I’ve spent quite a LOT of gold on gear, gems, crafting, etc, etc. However, since most of that is soulbound now and not liquidate-able, I don’t count it.

No, the WW/Binding Blades combo doesn’t work on you. You’re probaby just seeing the timing of the 10 sec condition removal you have.

Only got 20 gold in my pocket

You’re probalby being hit by their shatters. If you see the clones coming for you, you know that burst is coming.

Hmm, I’m still getting clipping on my weapons with my armor. I use the t1 chest.

Obtena.7952:

I think the point that I and wish are illustrating is that a thief doing that is not relevant to the overall state of Guardians. Even though there are some instances of annihilated or on the other hand, immunity, these are exceptions. They do not represent the overall performance of Guardians. Therefore, they can’t be used to demonstrate a need for profession improvements (or nerfs).

There is nothing cyclic about this discussion. You can’t have an objective discussion about the state of anything if you wish to dwell on exceptional, low frequency encounters.

Well as I said, that’s not my original point, which was that the current state of Guardians might be decent now, but with the proposed Boon Hate system, that will be thrown off balance again. Thief bursting was just used as an example, which is where you decided to point out and deny, continually, instead of sticking to the original point of the example. And again, that’s the Boon Hate system will throw off the current state of Guardians and what the Guardian is supposed to be. The fact that thief bursting happens (low frequency [you’re opinion] or not) is where this discussion seems to be stuck at and is going round and round.

You’re focusing on a part of what was said, and not the actual point. I’m at fault here for being caught up in it too. I do however think its funny when a tiny portion of the gaming populous (forumites) denies when such events take place. Its like people who don’t have algeries claim they don’t exist just because they are sufferless to it when the person right next to them is sneezing their head off during the pollination season.

From what I understand Boon Hate isn’t going to be strictly a thief skill/trait. Although the argument that I was making and Red, which is where the cycle is going back to …. again, is that thieves, who are definately slated to get this, will still be able to spike damage as a means to destroy bunker builds. DON’T CONCENTRATE ON THAT! Okay? Gooood, let’s slowly walk away from that cycle now.

My original point, to put it simply, Boon Hate = Bad News for the state of Guardians. And with that I digress that we should take this to the Boon Hate thread.

Obtena.7952:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Obtena.7952:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.

Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.

Sure it is, Thieves shouldn’t be able to do that to Guardians, especially bunker builds.

… Guardians are terrible? That’s clearly not correct.

No, that’s not what I said or is what the point of the subtopic. You’re putting words into my mouth, continually going around in circles of the actual point of the subtopic instead of sticking to it, and I’m done with it. If you can’t focus on the arguments YOU originally brought, then there’s no point to this banter.

As to the above quote, I actually agree to that. Again, that’s not what I said or is the point.

@wish, as argued in the previous posts, a thief can do such a thing. There’s plenty of evidence around. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean its nonexistent, but I guess as the saying goes, “Ignorance is bliss,” right?

lcc.9374:

Ji teleporting into a group of 15 with only 11k hp and no stealth is a very thrilling experience.

JI into said group with a quick WW/Binding Blade and then MI back to a teammate is even more thrilling (that is if MI ports to the right guy!).

Seriously, RP the way you want. Go to Tarnished Coast for even more RP acceptance.

Heck, I RP a Charr Guardian who still believes in God, but agrees with the Legion that all others are false. I could start a debate on the validity of it, but won’t. :p

But out of curiousity, just what war are you refering too?

Scoobaniec.9561:

Its ok..they fixed clipping issues on every weapon right now.

For the preview or for actual clipping while playing?

LOL! Necroposter ftw!!!

If your boon duration spec’ed maybe style.

The active affects for Mercy you both are presenting are really OP’ed.

Rampant Rampage.2567:

Aza.2105:

Its great how you leave out the fact that none boon oriented classes have: More burst damage than guardian, more health, more mobility, more CC.

I know I’m a little late to this party but this statement here is partially false, while I agree that the HP pool of a Guardian is low and mobility is poor, CC is by no means low! With DPS Guardian I can easily get to 97% CC! I can do massive amounts of damage, reaching as high as 5k/per but average 2.5k! Someone said “you have to have a boon build with a Guardian!” Nonsense this DPS build has one, shield boon(Aegis) that’s pretty much it! My “Immortal Guardian” I sacrifice DPS for boons, boons and more boons! I have not ever run into a Thief who could take me!! Even when I have all boons up, a Thief can’t even touch me till the 4th strike, by then he/she’s dead or close to it or of course running away like a dog with its tail between its legs! HP low? So, my heal skill heals me for 10-11k each time! Mobility? Who needs it? Stand and fight!

….. yeah.

So, how did you come up with that 97% figure? (EDIT: Oh I see, I think you mean Crit Chance, not Crowd Control. Thx Tarsius for clearing up some of that confusing post.)

You stated you don’t use boons, so this thread and the proposed changes are nonapplicable to you. No need to post then. Actually, I’m a little confused to what build you actually are trying to say you run. Boon or boonless since you stated to different things there. Regardless, if you don’t run with boons, your argument is irrelevant. If you do, with Boon Hate, you’re gonna get spiked when you have them on, especially with “boons, boons and more boons!” as you stated.

Your dps is still not the same as the other “boon oriented classes” that Aza is refering to. Throw out all kinds numbers out if you want, the others have higher burst damage. Guardian is not the king of burst, he is the king of sustained dps.

Mobility counts for a LOT when the other player has half a brain and knows how to use their classes mobility vs a Guardian’s “Stand and fight!”

No the passive on Mercy is bad too, especially with how healing power scales with Guardians. Really that number should be a lot higher to make it a reason to even be used. Or maybe an idea is to give a flat % increase to heals in general.

Duration doesn’t really help either since our one and only damage condition is burning, and that usually gets removed right away. I’m not sure what the signet could be fixed for though without making it overpowered. Maybe add am additional single bleed stack to each condition applied by Guardian? The change to movement speed would be nice.

Obtena.7952:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.

Encounter with thieves are not indicative of the general state of guardians either. Presenting extreme cases is not convincing.

Sure it is, Thieves shouldn’t be able to do that to Guardians, especially bunker builds. However, you’re the one that ignorantly continues to deny that instances of 3-4 hit downings by that profession doesn’t exist. I just gave you evidence of such thing, and there’s a lot more videos by other players out there as well. And those are not “extreme” cases as you put it. Why do you think Thief is such a popular class when it comes to PvP?

@Amins, I completely agree with you there. Honestly, the way it is now, armor class is just asethetics. There is no difference in the “feel” of a light armor class vs a heavy armor class.

You know you’ve played guardian too long when you feel the need to leap across a good couple yards, realize you don’t have a giant sword in hand and look ridiculous trying to actually do it….. all for the sake of trying to be more mobile.

edit: You know you’ve played guardian too long when you read these, get and laugh at them, and then feel the need to contribute to the thread.

You know, I’d be happy if they increased the speed and decreased the damage Scepter1 does. At least then it would actually land a hit at range!

Sandra Martino.3870:

Irena.1062:

Indeed, give scepter 1 more range, speed and make it homing, make staff have more range, make it so zealot’s defense does not root you, and make it so sword 2 does more damage. That would fix just about everything.

Scepter does not need more range or speed, it just needs to hit. Simply make it homing and guardian will have a viable ranged option.

I don’t get it why this didnt happen allready? It cannot possibly be intended that theres 1 profession that is unviable in 1 department of the game. I speculate they simply are not aware of it, like someone else said: its mindboggeling that it hasnt been fixed yet. If there was enough attention about scepter #1 and a dev would have read it, it would’ve been fixed the next patch.

It does astound me most of the community whines about hammer skills and whatnot, like poster above me and thus it strikes me this important matter is not viewed as important enough…

edit: In my opinion there should be like 5 rage posts per day from different people about why scepter #1 hasnt been fixed yet. Strange tbh. Does most of the community not care about guardian ranged viability?

Technically, Scepter 1 does have homing. You can see it actually following the target, but as you alluded to, it doesn’t always land… or never lands if the target is just slightly mobile.

The community is more or less split on having range viability.

Bellocchi.4593:

I won’t repeat what the guy above just said, I’ll just add that there’s stuff to be achieved by going solo in WvW besides just fun.
You can contribute by flipping camps, killing people lagging behind a zerg thus denying resources, etc.

I just can’t agree with this right now:

Honestly speaking, we’re actually one of the more blessed classes for 1v1 in WvW, where mobility (and mobility denial) is so important.

Some other classes seem, in my eyes, much better designed for escaping/chasing.

Necro meet Guardian. Want an oar for the same boat we are in? Oh wait, nevermind, get out of my boat, you have range…

:p

Obtena.7952:

Svarty.8019:

Obtena.7952:

A skilled Guardian player doesn’t get bursted unless it’s a unfortunately coincidence.

The rest of your post contradicts this final statement. Let me qualify that with the statement that guardians’ supposedly high “effective hit points” come from:

1. active defence.
2. good play on the part of the guardian.

The guardian has to generate the “effective hit points”. They cannot have high hit points if they get bursted by surprise or shafted by cooldowns.

Being shafted by cooldowns is precisely what I meant by unfortunate coincidence. Other than that scenario, I feel that if a player is even averagely skilled with Guardian, they should never be losing in a manner that makes them feel like they were ‘bursted’ in 3-4 hits by another player. Therefore, I don’t believe that being bursted in 3-4 hits is an accurate description for the state of Guardians.

I don’t think the thieves that do that care if you believe it or not.

Yeah, I know there’s a lot of naysayers on Div, but really, the runes are nice. Overpriced, but still nice if you are trying to reach a full stat potential. Also, Div runes give a benefit all the time where as the other runes give benefits based on percent chances, CDs, etc, etc.

IMO, they need to buff Rage Sigil duration now since they nerfed it to uselessness.

Heinel.6548:

It would be better if shelter heals at the beginning of the skill rather than at the end, but I’m not sure if the current situation is considered more balanced.

Yeah, I like that better too, but like you said, would that upset balancing?

Those are some nice solid stats Harb! Seeing that makes me miss my old trait spec and build.

Changed out that now-useless-Rage sigil eh? Are you still running with Divinity runes as well?

Disturbed.9305:

What I think people are missing is that people were randomly contacting him in game and it wasn’t what he wanted.

I didn’t miss that. That’s why I said he could have just left the build there and not have to answer anyone. Perhaps he could have even stated not to contact him in game. I can see where it’s annoying though, especially if you ahve to constantly add someone to the blocked list.